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(Daily Mail)   Old and busted: Bird whacking wind turbines. New hotness: Bird scorching solar farms   (dailymail.co.uk) divider line 117
    More: Scary, solar farms, BrightSource Energy, Solar Energy Industries Association, NRG Energy, Ivanpah Solar, native wildlife, judicial panel  
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8102 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Feb 2014 at 3:13 PM (43 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-02-16 02:42:26 PM  
Yes, because other methods of power generation have zero environmental impact that might lead to wildlife deaths.

img.fark.net
 
2014-02-16 02:44:35 PM  
dozens of birds

THE HORROR!!!!

These stories about bird deaths from windmillls and now apparently solar farms make me laugh. Do these idiots have any idea on how many millions of birds die every year, many from house pets? The percentage that are killed by windmills and solar is so small as to be unmeasurable.
 
2014-02-16 02:51:06 PM  
Animals is stupider since Noah's Ark because of inbreding.
 
2014-02-16 03:17:41 PM  
Well at least they won't nest in there and mess up the place.
 
2014-02-16 03:17:49 PM  
While any unneccessary death of wildlife is bad and should be avoided, windows and cats kill birds by the millions. If we really care, we should do something about those.
 
2014-02-16 03:19:19 PM  

InterruptingQuirk: Animals is stupider since Noah's Ark because of inbreding.


Yes, yes they are.

Some of them actually believe that story too.
 
2014-02-16 03:20:23 PM  
So what's the best sauce to use with that?
 
2014-02-16 03:20:35 PM  
lh3.ggpht.com
 
2014-02-16 03:21:54 PM  
blogs.inlandsocal.com
"It burst into flames! Get this, Charlie! Get this, Charlie! It's fire-and it's crashing! It's crashing terrible!"
 
2014-02-16 03:22:53 PM  
i.imgur.com
 
2014-02-16 03:23:10 PM  
My 'caption' actually would have better fit show me's picture, but what the Aak!
 
2014-02-16 03:23:43 PM  
Well I'm convinced. I'm switching to coal!
 
2014-02-16 03:24:05 PM  
And after a couple generations, the surviving birds will have learned to avoid the area.

It's a self-solving problem, really
 
2014-02-16 03:24:13 PM  
Good to see HELIOS One is up and running
 
2014-02-16 03:26:00 PM  

Agent Smiths Laugh: InterruptingQuirk: Animals is stupider since Noah's Ark because of inbreding.

Yes, yes they are.

Some of them actually believe that story too.


Animals is stupider since Noah's Ark because of evilution.

Thanks, I FTFM.
 
2014-02-16 03:26:03 PM  
Fortunately I keep my feathers numbered for... for just such an emergency.
 
2014-02-16 03:27:09 PM  
Well, looks like we're about to wipe out the last of the dinosaurs.

Dinki: These stories about bird deaths from windmillls and now apparently solar farms make me laugh. Do these idiots have any idea on how many millions of birds die every year, many from house pets? The percentage that are killed by windmills and solar is so small as to be unmeasurable.

 
2014-02-16 03:29:36 PM  
Environmentalists have hit out at a giant new solar farm in the Mojave Desert

Uh huh... I'm sure they have.

It's pretty awesome how all sorts of crazy neo cons and drill shills are all of a sudden concerned about a few birds MAYBE getting hurt/killed by these oh so evil and horrendous renewable energy sites.

I'm not going to bother reading a DM faux outrage article but IF they happened to name these supposed environmental groups I'm wondering what would be found with a little research into them. I'm sure they are TOTES not funded and backed by neo con scummos and for realzies care about teh widdle birdies.

It could also be extreme leftist zealots a la PETA who would rather every man woman and child on the planet commit suicide to "SAVE THE FLEAS!!!" or some such nonsense.

Either way... this is POSITIVE progress. Nothing will be perfect or at least it won't for a long time but this is better than the planet killing (and thus human killing... even you rich bootstrappers) status quo.
 
jvl
2014-02-16 03:30:37 PM  

Angela Lansbury's Merkin: Yes, because other methods of power generation have zero environmental impact that might lead to wildlife deaths.


Compared to a Wind Farm, a big pit mine really doesn't kill wildlife.

Doesn't mean that Wind Farms are a bad idea, it just means that your point is wrong.
 
2014-02-16 03:32:44 PM  
Proof you just cant please some motherfarkers.

Drill oil wells? They biatch screaming for renewable energy.

Fracking for natural gas? They biatch screaming for renewable energy.

Build a renewable energy solar power plant? They biatch a few blackbirds got scorched.


Stfu. Unless you expect everyone to go back to the stone age, we will need energy in some form from somwehere.

You got your solar power station instead of fossil fuel-powered plant. Zip it.
 
2014-02-16 03:32:46 PM  
More birds die from getting sucked into jet engines, but I don't hear them crying about that
 
2014-02-16 03:34:03 PM  

jvl: Angela Lansbury's Merkin: Yes, because other methods of power generation have zero environmental impact that might lead to wildlife deaths.

Compared to a Wind Farm, a big pit mine really doesn't kill wildlife.


No, it just destroys the habitat capable of sustaining it in the first place.  Either way- no birds.  So I fail to see your point.
 
2014-02-16 03:34:34 PM  

Agent Smiths Laugh: InterruptingQuirk: Animals is stupider since Noah's Ark because of inbreding.

Yes, yes they are.

Some of them actually believe that story too.


And another you'd expect is exactly one Y chromosome for all of the unclean animals. With humans, you would expect no more than four, assuming that Mrs. Noah committed adultery and Shem, Japeth and Ham all had a different Father besides Noah. But that, apparently, would have been a greater taboo than incest for 6,000 years. The Bible doesn't say that the human race is descended from an adulteress.

It says we are all inbred from Cain, possiblly Abel, Enoch and their sisters. The only way around this is to assume that God made Adam and Eve as the ancestors of the Jews, but that there were plenty of people (cave men) around to interbreed with them so that they didn't become hopelessly polydactyl and moronic.

I think creationists cleverly strain out gnats from their wine and then swallow camels and even great blue whales of credulity. The facts do not support creationism in any field of science from astronomy and cosmology to biology, genetics and microbiology.

In order for there to be scores of Y chromosomes with uncountable mutations, evolution would have to exist and work at super-speed instead of the world being billions of years old with evolution working one nucleotide a year for billions of years. This is absurd.

To avoid the issue of speciation, creationists invented "kinds" based on the Biblical word. But these kinds would have to evolve at rocket speeds to produce thousands of species each of rats, bats, sparrows, etc.

Your quibbles prove nothing. The "facts" you are trying to preserve are rendered even more improbable by the cognitive dissonance that allows you to believe in super-rapid evolution but not the slow kind because the book you believe is true is a couple of thousand years old, while the world it purports to explain is billions of years old.

Having your cake and eating it is peculiarly American optimism, and it is based purely on the fantasies embroidered around ancient myths and the refusal to admit that they are in fact myths rather than literal and inerrant facts.

Science has no literal and inerrant facts. It has only hypotheses, fact-checking and theories composed of facts that have survived repeated testing. Consequently, the religionists have kept a steady war of polemics and apologetics, stealing what they can from successive schools of Greek and secular philosophy and science. But science is sneaking--its facts keep changing, sometimes at an evolutionary pace, sometimes through rapid paradigm shifts, often through a sort of dialectic with one school ahead and then another.

In short, religion does not survive the wash if it locks itself onto a claim to historical and scientific truth. History is a story men tell. Science is work that they do. Religion clings to prejudice and the past and tries to ride the power boats of science while retaining the myth of the Great Universal Flood and others.

Ha! Lots of luck. Nature doesn't care about your religion, your history, your science and your temporary understanding of her mysteries. All is entropy.
 
2014-02-16 03:37:19 PM  

jvl: Angela Lansbury's Merkin: Yes, because other methods of power generation have zero environmental impact that might lead to wildlife deaths.

Compared to a Wind Farm, a big pit mine really doesn't kill wildlife.

Doesn't mean that Wind Farms are a bad idea, it just means that your point is wrong.


No, not at all. Except, you know, all the burrowing creatures that get sucked up, mauled, or otherwise squashed by strip mining equipment and techniques.

I'm sure Big Coal filed an environmental impact report about it like the solar farm was required to do.
 
2014-02-16 03:37:34 PM  

Uncle Tractor: Well, looks like we're about to wipe out the last of the dinosaurs.

Dinki: These stories about bird deaths from windmillls and now apparently solar farms make me laugh. Do these idiots have any idea on how many millions of birds die every year, many from house pets? The percentage that are killed by windmills and solar is so small as to be unmeasurable.


This is why I'd never have an out door cat.  From what I've seen and read about this a lot of the birds they kill are the nice song birds you'd want around,  instead of those cawing, crowing, ugly MF'ers too.

Keep your cats in the house people!
 
2014-02-16 03:38:55 PM  
Given half a chance, a wind turbine or solar power plant would eat you and your family too. You can't reason with them. They are unstoppable.

This message brought to you by Koch Brothers and tasty, tasty coal(tm). Try some on toast today!

api.ning.com
 
2014-02-16 03:40:28 PM  

The more you eat the more you fart: Proof you just cant please some motherfarkers.

Drill oil wells? They biatch screaming for renewable energy.

Fracking for natural gas? They biatch screaming for renewable energy.

Build a renewable energy solar power plant? They biatch a few blackbirds got scorched.


Stfu. Unless you expect everyone to go back to the stone age, we will need energy in some form from somwehere.

You got your solar power station instead of fossil fuel-powered plant. Zip it.


You really believe the Daily Fail that environmentalists are flocking (pun intended) to protest the solar power station?

*Rupert Murdoch*'s Daily Fail?

Really?

/PETA and their ilk don't count for spit
 
2014-02-16 03:40:32 PM  
Cue Pidgeon getting hit by fastball gif
 
2014-02-16 03:40:35 PM  
with environmental groups questioning the the value of cleaner power when native wildlife is being killed

Oh, no they're not. The only question they have is "Can we prevent or otherwise minimize this?" because they know damned well that the alternative is "dirty" power which will destroy the habitats these critters live in, killing the critters indirectly.
 
2014-02-16 03:40:55 PM  

brantgoose: Agent Smiths Laugh: InterruptingQuirk: Animals is stupider since Noah's Ark because of inbreding.

Yes, yes they are.

Some of them actually believe that story too.

And another you'd expect is exactly one Y chromosome for all of the unclean animals. With humans, you would expect no more than four, assuming that Mrs. Noah committed adultery and Shem, Japeth and Ham all had a different Father besides Noah. But that, apparently, would have been a greater taboo than incest for 6,000 years. The Bible doesn't say that the human race is descended from an adulteress.

It says we are all inbred from Cain, possiblly Abel, Enoch and their sisters. The only way around this is to assume that God made Adam and Eve as the ancestors of the Jews, but that there were plenty of people (cave men) around to interbreed with them so that they didn't become hopelessly polydactyl and moronic.

I think creationists cleverly strain out gnats from their wine and then swallow camels and even great blue whales of credulity. The facts do not support creationism in any field of science from astronomy and cosmology to biology, genetics and microbiology.

In order for there to be scores of Y chromosomes with uncountable mutations, evolution would have to exist and work at super-speed instead of the world being billions of years old with evolution working one nucleotide a year for billions of years. This is absurd.

To avoid the issue of speciation, creationists invented "kinds" based on the Biblical word. But these kinds would have to evolve at rocket speeds to produce thousands of species each of rats, bats, sparrows, etc.

Your quibbles prove nothing. The "facts" you are trying to preserve are rendered even more improbable by the cognitive dissonance that allows you to believe in super-rapid evolution but not the slow kind because the book you believe is true is a couple of thousand years old, while the world it purports to explain is billions of years old.

Having your cake and eating it is pecu ...


Actually, genetic diversity within a single creature does make for varied offspring. It's the supportive reasoning behind human development stemming from Africa as they have enough genetic diversity to spawn all the other races, but the other races do not have enough genetic diversity to spawn all the others. Something like that anyways.
 
2014-02-16 03:41:52 PM  
Drove by one of these solar projects years ago. They had the mirrors focused on a spot above and to the side of the tower and the sunlight was causing the air to flouresce at the focal area. Very trippy.
 
2014-02-16 03:42:40 PM  

Dinki: dozens of birds

THE HORROR!!!!

These stories about bird deaths from windmillls and now apparently solar farms make me laugh. Do these idiots have any idea on how many millions of birds die every year, many from house pets? The percentage that are killed by windmills and solar is so small as to be unmeasurable.


Yes, but if I really accurate bird counter, and took samples and was able to tell you exactly how any birds were killed per year by wind mills and solar power. And what if that graph were to look like a hockey stick, how would you feel then?
 
2014-02-16 03:43:33 PM  
cdn3.sbnation.com
 
2014-02-16 03:44:29 PM  

Boo_Guy: Keep your cats in the house people!


You'd think the parasites, car strikes, and dog mailings maulings would tip some people off.

/this spellcheck suggestion brought to you by USPS
//mail your puppy today!
 
2014-02-16 03:45:52 PM  
Entropy. You can't escape it. But you can slow it down.

With fossil fuels you get pollution.

With nuclear power you get a different kind of pollution (heat from cooling towers and water pipes, radiation, occasionally a runaway China Syndrome or a nuclear weapons Ka-Boom!

With wind you slow the winds and kill the birds.

With solar you slow the winds, soak up the light and heat and roast the birds.

It's all entropy and the only impossible answer is a perpetual motion machine that does not generate any heat or waste. Lots of luck, chum-ps!

Every form of power is generated at the cost of a given amount of entropy. You can pump energy uphill, contrary to the crap that creationists and cranks talk, but this merely means that you are dumping more waste heat outside of the system or else sucking energy into the system from outside. The Law of Entropy is not to be violated, it can only be disguised or ignored by a crank.

The only way to escape entropy is to escape the system. Local entropy might decline when living organisms or machines turn some form of latent power into active work, but the only way to avoid the heat and waste is to dump it outside.

For centuries humans have been dumping their waste into the air and water or the soil and thus "eliminating" it. But this is not what really happens. It doesn't go away, it goes downstream. Where it makes the world nastier for other people, animals, plants, and machines.

Creationists are polemicists and apologists for a very primitive pre-scientific view of the world and this is the waste and heat into which they pull scientists and any reasonable, informed or rational person. They perpetuate the muck of ignorance and dwell happily in it like pigs.

It doesn't matter if you are a liberal or a conservative, a believer or an unbeliever, a denialist or a scientist, if you fail to recognize the Law of Entropy and do your best to fight it where and while you can. But you can't win this game, you can't break even, and you can never quit.

All you can do is expand your consensual reality and your activity into a bigger and bigger system, hoping to outrun entropy on the short run, knowing that the universe is doomed to heat death or a big crush in the end.
 
2014-02-16 03:46:07 PM  

jvl: Compared to a Wind Farm, a big pit mine really doesn't kill wildlife.


It isn't the pit mine that is the problem, it's the coal.
Coal Ash has been shown to cause increased risk of cancer, learning disabilities, neurological disorders, birth defects, reproductive failure, asthma, organ disease, heart damage, lung disease, respiratory distress, kidney disease, reproductive problems, gastrointestinal illness, birth defects, impaired bone growth in children, behavioral problems, respiratory illness, neurological damage, tissue disease, and developmental problems. Studies have shown that living near a wet coal ash storage pond is significantly more dangerous than smoking a pack of cigarettes a day. Toxins in coal ash build up in the bodies of exposed animals and birds, causing the pollutants to move up the food chain when they are eaten. Children are more susceptible to the health impacts of coal ash. Pregnant women should avoid exposure at all costs.
 
2014-02-16 03:47:38 PM  
All of the pictures and posts in this thread are illustrations of entropy. But that is normal, even without a troll.
 
2014-02-16 03:48:02 PM  
Although solar power is the way of the future, I don't think massive plants like this are the best way to capture it.  Not only do they scorch birds, but building the plant destroys a lot of habitat for relatively little gain, like a hydroelectric dam.

Why can't we just install solar panels on every rooftop of every building?  It's noninvasive in comparison, and gives us plenty of usable land coverage.  The only reason I can think is that it takes the power generating out of the hands of the power companies...
 
2014-02-16 03:49:25 PM  

brantgoose: All of the pictures and posts in this thread are illustrations of entropy. But that is normal, even without a troll.


Hey, my first two posts, I was just trying to be funny. The third one was genuine :(
 
2014-02-16 03:53:57 PM  
Arguing about concentrating towers burning birds is pretty pointless as of now.  Photovoltaic prices have plunged to the point where using heat is just not cost effective compared to converting photons to electricity using silicon.  And fields of solar panels don't hurt birds at all, so the neo-cons who use environmental issues to attack renewable power can't use that tack much longer.
 
2014-02-16 03:54:02 PM  

The more you eat the more you fart: Proof you just cant please some motherfarkers.

Drill oil wells? They biatch screaming for renewable energy.

Fracking for natural gas? They biatch screaming for renewable energy.

Build a renewable energy solar power plant? They biatch a few blackbirds got scorched.


Stfu. Unless you expect everyone to go back to the stone age, we will need energy in some form from somwehere.

You got your solar power station instead of fossil fuel-powered plant. Zip it.


As I pointed out it is highly unlikely true environmentalists are the ones doing the squawking here.

I've told this story here before but it again fits. In the old small town/rural area I used to live (and it's actually happening around here too) there were a bunch of old NIMBY clowns and hard line, lockstep talking point conservatards whinging about a massive wind farm that was being proposed in sparsely populated area. For years it was "DURRR... RESEARCH SAYS IT WILL MAKE MY BABBY A SERIAL KILLER AND GIVE ME THE BRAIN CANCERZ!!!" or "IZ TOO EXPENSIVEZ... MORE OILZ!!!" or "IZ UGLY!! DO NOT WANT!!!". Well obviously that's all pretty retarded so the project kept moving forward. Well these selfish dumbf*cks scrounged up a bunch of money (likely for oil goons) and got some "environmental" studies done to find out the impact of the wind farm which was already being built and had already had a TON of money spent on it.

So these people... who had never really given a flying fart about any creature except themselves in their entire lives... found out through these studies there was a certain kind of frog that lived near the site. It was a somewhat unique breed and not particularly endangered but the "studies" found that MAYBE the frogs natural habitat would be disturbed by the project. WEEEELLLLL then the wailing about the poor little f*cking frogs started up, work on the farm was halted, millions of (TAX) dollars had to be spent to find out whether there was merit to the claim and it just made an entire mess of everything benefiting quite literally NO ONE except the fossil fuel industry and even then I can't see how it would have made any significant impact on their bottom line anyway.

So that sh*t is still being debated and tons of money is being wasted and it will likely turn out that everything was fine in the first place and the poor little froggies will indeed survive despite the new turbines.

It is one of the new conservative shill tactics. The left have been so successful at convincing the government and society to do the right thing that now the cons are using faux concern over the environment, racism, poverty, etc to get their way. Except when THEY put it forth it is always about something tiny, inconsequential, wrong or completely fooking retarded and the end result of their nonsense makes things a MILLION times worse in ALL of those situations despite their crowing otherwise.

It's like the whole "I'm not a racist!!! YOU'RE THE RACIST FOR POINTING OUT MY RACISM!!! USING THE N WORD AND HARASSING MEXICANS IS MY CULTURE YOU BIGOT!!!"

F*ckheads.
 
2014-02-16 04:01:10 PM  

UsikFark: My 'caption' actually would have better fit show me's picture, but what the Aak!


Ack ack!

One of my favorite surprise movie scenes of all time. Top ten for sure.
 
2014-02-16 04:03:20 PM  

jvl: Angela Lansbury's Merkin: Yes, because other methods of power generation have zero environmental impact that might lead to wildlife deaths.

Compared to a Wind Farm, a big pit mine really doesn't kill wildlife.

Doesn't mean that Wind Farms are a bad idea, it just means that your point is wrong.


Really?  What happened to all the animals living on the land before they knocked all the trees over, ripped off the top soil and blew up the ground?  Did they all get relocated?  What effect does the habitat loss have on the overall population of the animals that would have been living there?  What about the animals poised by the run off when it rains?
 
2014-02-16 04:11:17 PM  

UsikFark: Boo_Guy: Keep your cats in the house people!

You'd think the parasites, car strikes, and dog mailings maulings would tip some people off.

/this spellcheck suggestion brought to you by USPS
//mail your puppy today!


I want a pet that I barely ever see but that I'll have to pay to feed and take to the vet.  Hmm...  Oh an outdoor cat,  great!

It's like those people that get a dog and leave it in the yard 24-7.  Those dogs have got to be lonely.  What's the point of doing that?
 
2014-02-16 04:11:47 PM  
Since these deaths and injuries occurred during construction, that doesn't confirm a "solar roasts birds," conclusion. I'd be curious to see what figures are generated now that it's finished and operating. Heating a static surface to the point of boiling using thousands of surfaces is one thing, keeping the air in between hot enough to flash scorch a bird is entirely another. 

This leads to point two. The Daily Mail is quite a rag so that doesn't confirm this as a legitimate news article. I'd be curious to see this story reported from a more reputable source.

That being said, to everyone saying, "fark those birds," for anyone actually caring about the practical or ethical aspects of reducing environmental impacts that would be the wrong answer both because it directly ignores those concerns and because it is the exact hypocrisy a schlock story on this subject pitched by anti-environmentalist shills would be fishing for.
 
2014-02-16 04:12:23 PM  
I know someone that is vehemently opposed to wind farms based on his bird watching experience. Staunch gay democrat too. So there must be something to it.
 
2014-02-16 04:14:30 PM  

show me: [lh3.ggpht.com image 500x225]


www.blogadilla.com
Ack Ack !!!
 
2014-02-16 04:14:30 PM  

here to help: Environmentalists have hit out at a giant new solar farm in the Mojave Desert

Uh huh... I'm sure they have.

It's pretty awesome how all sorts of crazy neo cons and drill shills are all of a sudden concerned about a few birds MAYBE getting hurt/killed by these oh so evil and horrendous renewable energy sites.

I'm not going to bother reading a DM faux outrage article but IF they happened to name these supposed environmental groups I'm wondering what would be found with a little research into them. I'm sure they are TOTES not funded and backed by neo con scummos and for realzies care about teh widdle birdies.

It could also be extreme leftist zealots a la PETA who would rather every man woman and child on the planet commit suicide to "SAVE THE FLEAS!!!" or some such nonsense.

Either way... this is POSITIVE progress. Nothing will be perfect or at least it won't for a long time but this is better than the planet killing (and thus human killing... even you rich bootstrappers) status quo.


Self proclaimed environmentalists have stuck out at many green sources of energy over the yeas. From hydro (bad for the fish), to nuclear (bad for having half the words of nuclear bomb) to windmills (birds) to solar plants that affected wildlife (tortoises) or natural gas (fracking) to tidal (fish) or mass transit trains (California) this kind of thing happens day in and out all over the world. You joke but example upon example of these kinds of things are a very simple google search away.

Many environmentalists are sincerely interested in progress and clean energy and dedicate their lives to making these things ahppen. Unfortunately the zealots and luddites have a long track record of crying NIMBY and doing everything they can to prevent any kind of energy development. Oddly enough you almost never seem to see protests for coal for some reason. This leads to my pet theory that the luddites are unknowing puppets of the Koch brothers receiving donations from them to keep up their work.

There is no such thing as green energy, there is only greener energy. Every form of energy has it's drawbacks, and the zealouts keep forgetting that if you can't put up one form easily companies will just go to their standby of coal power plants.
 
2014-02-16 04:15:25 PM  

Mega Steve: More birds die from getting sucked into jet engines, but I don't hear them crying about that


How is a dead bird supposed to cry?
 
2014-02-16 04:22:45 PM  
Just use Nuclear Breeder reactors for power.  All the world's problems solved.
 
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