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(BBC)   UK backs US plan to shoot beam of high energy subatomic particles at South Dakota   (bbc.co.uk) divider line 54
    More: Interesting, neutrinos, particles, Antiparticle, South Dakota, Particle Physics, British Universities, Fermilab, nuclear reactions  
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3708 clicks; posted to Geek » on 16 Feb 2014 at 12:52 PM (26 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-02-16 12:43:07 PM
fta "It is as big as the search for the Higgs and will revolutionise our understanding of physics."

It's amazing what you can do with a McDonald's soft serve machine held together with duct tape.

img.photobucket.com
 
2014-02-16 01:09:10 PM
So it is like a Neutrino tunneling beam? Interesting. Perhaps we can use it to take that infection of the hull.

i1.ytimg.com
 
2014-02-16 01:12:38 PM
Anybody think the Tea Party will go for funding for this?  The supercolliding superconductor in Texas was killed long before the Teabaggers even existed.  And this experiment is suppose to help us understand how the universe was created, which we already know because of this free book I found in a hotel room.  So this is a non-starter.
 
2014-02-16 01:17:15 PM
i.imgur.com
 
2014-02-16 01:24:27 PM

Aquapope: Anybody think the Tea Party will go for funding for this?  The supercolliding superconductor in Texas was killed long before the Teabaggers even existed.  And this experiment is suppose to help us understand how the universe was created, which we already know because of this free book I found in a hotel room.  So this is a non-starter.


Doesn't it get tiring to make every thread on FARK like this?
 
2014-02-16 01:40:31 PM

ko_kyi: Aquapope: Anybody think the Tea Party will go for funding for this?  The supercolliding superconductor in Texas was killed long before the Teabaggers even existed.  And this experiment is suppose to help us understand how the universe was created, which we already know because of this free book I found in a hotel room.  So this is a non-starter.

Doesn't it get tiring to make every thread on FARK like this?


I don't know. I don't post, or even read, every thread.  But funding for a big research project is kind of on-topic in a thread about a big research project.
 
2014-02-16 01:43:14 PM
so long as their aim is good nothing of value will be lost if the blast South Dakota...wait what?   Damn it.
 
2014-02-16 01:46:31 PM

limeyfellow: So it is like a Neutrino tunneling beam? Interesting. Perhaps we can use it to take that infection of the hull.

[i1.ytimg.com image 334x251]


I prefer :

i291.photobucket.com
"Your neutrinos are drifting...."

For certain obvious reasons.
 
2014-02-16 01:57:04 PM
can they hit Sturgis with a gamma blast during Bike Week?
 
2014-02-16 02:07:38 PM
bbsimg.ngfiles.com
 
2014-02-16 02:09:23 PM

Thanks for the Meme-ries: limeyfellow: So it is like a Neutrino tunneling beam? Interesting. Perhaps we can use it to take that infection of the hull.

[i1.ytimg.com image 334x251]

I prefer :

[i291.photobucket.com image 500x391]
"Your neutrinos are drifting...."

For certain obvious reasons.


Wesley Crusher defiling the hot Judd. Quickly need to reverse the polarity!

www.bbcamerica.com
 
2014-02-16 02:27:16 PM
Wow, I'm such a nerd.  I understood what the experiment was supposed to prove from the Fark headline...

/help
 
2014-02-16 02:27:30 PM
UK backs huge US neutrino plan

Somebody's conning you guys. Neutrinos only come in one size and aren't subject to branding by individual countries.
.
 
2014-02-16 02:31:19 PM

Aquapope: Anybody think the Tea Party will go for funding for this?  The supercolliding superconductor in Texas was killed long before the Teabaggers even existed.  And this experiment is suppose to help us understand how the universe was created, which we already know because of this free book I found in a hotel room.  So this is a non-starter.


Being a member of the Tea Party movement and an engineer and an atheist, I say in the nicest possible way: take your infantile trolling to the politics tab where it belongs.
 
2014-02-16 02:39:33 PM

jjorsett: Aquapope: Anybody think the Tea Party will go for funding for this?  The supercolliding superconductor in Texas was killed long before the Teabaggers even existed.  And this experiment is suppose to help us understand how the universe was created, which we already know because of this free book I found in a hotel room.  So this is a non-starter.

Being a member of the Tea Party movement and an engineer and an atheist, I say in the nicest possible way: take your infantile trolling to the politics tab where it belongs.


It is relevant. And the vast majority of the Tea Party is composed of the same old religious right nutjobs who hate science. Hate to break it to you, but that's who you're associating yourself with.
 
2014-02-16 02:52:23 PM

cptjeff: It is relevant. And the vast majority of the Tea Party is composed of the same old religious right nutjobs who hate science. Hate to break it to you, but that's who you're associating yourself with.


TFA is about a science experiment.  I don't recall it being about Tea Party but assholes like you want to make every thread about how much you hate the Tea Party.  We get it.  OK.  Thanks for your valuable contribution.  I personally am much more interested in the science and your ilk drives away interesting people with interesting opinions about the actual substance of the article.

Blocking you, but thanks in advance for the witty retort.
 
2014-02-16 02:57:11 PM

ko_kyi: Aquapope: Anybody think the Tea Party will go for funding for this?  The supercolliding superconductor in Texas was killed long before the Teabaggers even existed.  And this experiment is suppose to help us understand how the universe was created, which we already know because of this free book I found in a hotel room.  So this is a non-starter.

Doesn't it get tiring to make every thread on FARK like this?


Yes. Such things should be confined to the Politics Tab, IMHO.
 
2014-02-16 02:57:55 PM

Aquapope: ko_kyi: Aquapope: Anybody think the Tea Party will go for funding for this?  The supercolliding superconductor in Texas was killed long before the Teabaggers even existed.  And this experiment is suppose to help us understand how the universe was created, which we already know because of this free book I found in a hotel room.  So this is a non-starter.

Doesn't it get tiring to make every thread on FARK like this?

I don't know. I don't post, or even read, every thread.  But funding for a big research project is kind of on-topic in a thread about a big research project.


THIS
and funding for science confuses some people

Like funding to discover earth crossing asteroids. WHY would we need to do that? We discover them after they fly by or after they hit us!! Why would we EVER need to know earlier than that?

Imshallah!!!

/I am being sarcastic about WHY WOULD WE NEED science. For the sarcasm impaired.
 
2014-02-16 03:02:22 PM

namatad: THIS
and funding for science confuses some people

Like funding to discover earth crossing asteroids. WHY would we need to do that? We discover them after they fly by or after they hit us!! Why would we EVER need to know earlier than that?


Sure, that is a great subject.  A discussion about that is relevant.  What level of scientific should be publicly funded?  What areas are more important?  What is the opportunity cost of funding other things?  What things go on the chopping block when public money is lean?

That is discussion.  "Tea Party people are all young Earth Creationists.  Man we hate them" is not discussion, it is off-topic trolling and we have a tab for that.
 
2014-02-16 03:04:34 PM
How do you make a beam if neutrinos?
 
2014-02-16 03:07:17 PM

stuhayes2010: How do you make a beam if neutrinos?


I believe atomic decay can create neutrinos.  I'd like to know how the hell you build a detector for something that goes through miles of rock without interacting but will interact with the detector.
 
2014-02-16 03:07:19 PM
Twenty million pounds towards a 1.5 billion dollar project? Impressive! You guys are essentially building this yourselves, British boffins.
 
2014-02-16 03:17:42 PM

jjorsett: Aquapope: Anybody think the Tea Party will go for funding for this?  The supercolliding superconductor in Texas was killed long before the Teabaggers even existed.  And this experiment is suppose to help us understand how the universe was created, which we already know because of this free book I found in a hotel room.  So this is a non-starter.

Being a member of the Tea Party movement and an engineer and an atheist, I say in the nicest possible way: take your infantile trolling to the politics tab where it belongs.


Lol, then you should really no better!

/btw, Bob Jones University Engineering degrees aren't worth much these days.
 
2014-02-16 03:45:05 PM
I'm a neutrino physicist, so I'm getting a kick out of these replies, etc.

Context is key here - this is a big undertaking with lots of R&D, producing lots of Ph.D. students over many years who will enter the workforce with some critical-thinking and analysis chops, and will teach us something about the universe we live in, for about $1.5bn.

The F-35 is an airplane that will likely never see actual dog-fighting combat, is blowing up the Pentagon budget even more than normal, and is filling the pockets of defense contractors, who can then turn around and spend the money as campaign contributions for congresspeople who will in turn green-light more projects in the future. All for $400bn.
 
2014-02-16 04:20:18 PM

Aquapope: ko_kyi: Aquapope: Anybody think the Tea Party will go for funding for this?  The supercolliding superconductor in Texas was killed long before the Teabaggers even existed.  And this experiment is suppose to help us understand how the universe was created, which we already know because of this free book I found in a hotel room.  So this is a non-starter.

Doesn't it get tiring to make every thread on FARK like this?

I don't know. I don't post, or even read, every thread.  But funding for a big research project is kind of on-topic in a thread about a big research project.


Everybody was against the Texas supercollider funding from left to right as a big boondoggle taking away from whatever their pet projects, whether midnight basketball for pregnant lesbian storks to arming the 1% with Terminator bodyguards... except for Texas politicians bringing home the pork and the scientists aligned with the project.
 
2014-02-16 04:25:20 PM
Scientists at Fermilab, just outside Chicago, want to fire a beam of particles called neutrinos through 1,300km (800 miles) of rock some 30km below the surface.

The experiment's aim is to learn more about how the Universe was created.


Pretty sure the universe wasn't created underground.
 
2014-02-16 04:38:51 PM

jjorsett: Aquapope: Anybody think the Tea Party will go for funding for this?  The supercolliding superconductor in Texas was killed long before the Teabaggers even existed.  And this experiment is suppose to help us understand how the universe was created, which we already know because of this free book I found in a hotel room.  So this is a non-starter.

Being a member of the Tea Party movement and an engineer and an atheist, I say in the nicest possible way: take your infantile trolling to the politics tab where it belongs.


As an outside observer to your political process I have to agree that your Tea Party movement has been a driving force in dumbing-down your country.   Please hold them accountable for their anti-science views.  You're doing your party and your country no favours by letting that issue slide because they're on 'your' team.
 
2014-02-16 04:48:46 PM
I just came here to say fark South Dakota.

/drtfa
 
2014-02-16 05:11:03 PM

ko_kyi: namatad: THIS
and funding for science confuses some people

Like funding to discover earth crossing asteroids. WHY would we need to do that? We discover them after they fly by or after they hit us!! Why would we EVER need to know earlier than that?

Sure, that is a great subject.  A discussion about that is relevant.  What level of scientific should be publicly funded?  What areas are more important?  What is the opportunity cost of funding other things?  What things go on the chopping block when public money is lean?

That is discussion.  "Tea Party people are all young Earth Creationists.  Man we hate them" is not discussion, it is off-topic trolling and we have a tab for that.


And that tab would be "Reddit".
 
2014-02-16 05:15:02 PM
So, why does a neutrino change flavors?  Wouldn't it be nice to know?

Myself, I don't believe in particles at all.  It's all just fields.  Some have more energy in a smaller space, some don't.  "Collapse of the wave function" is all a silly game to try to force fields to seem like particles, as if that helps anything.  Stay in phase space my friends, that's where the answers are...

Fark the duality; it's all really fields.
 
cjo [TotalFark]
2014-02-16 05:27:39 PM

SecretAgentWoman: I just came here to say fark South Dakota.

/drtfa


I'm officially offended.
 
2014-02-16 05:31:46 PM

astro716: I'm a neutrino physicist, so I'm getting a kick out of these replies, etc.



Glad you are here.  Can you tell me how can the detector tell the neutrino came from the source they created and not from some other source? are they of a specific energy level or something?
 
2014-02-16 05:44:00 PM

ko_kyi: astro716: I'm a neutrino physicist, so I'm getting a kick out of these replies, etc.


Glad you are here.  Can you tell me how can the detector tell the neutrino came from the source they created and not from some other source? are they of a specific energy level or something?


Weren't you paying attention?

Nintendos pass through everything.
 
2014-02-16 05:51:32 PM

ko_kyi: astro716: I'm a neutrino physicist, so I'm getting a kick out of these replies, etc.


Glad you are here.  Can you tell me how can the detector tell the neutrino came from the source they created and not from some other source? are they of a specific energy level or something?


Well, other sources of background neutrinos are cosmic rays interacting in the upper atmosphere and geoneutrinos, coming from nuclear fission in the earth's core. These can come from any direction, but do have preferred directions ("up" and "down", respectively), while the beam is coming from only one direction.  Also, the beam is sent in very short pulses, so you can tell by the timing of the neutrino interaction in the detector and then comparing it to the beam pulse timing if it's beam or background related. This is what cuts down your backgrounds to almost nothing.
 
2014-02-16 05:53:23 PM

astro716: ko_kyi: astro716: I'm a neutrino physicist, so I'm getting a kick out of these replies, etc.


Glad you are here.  Can you tell me how can the detector tell the neutrino came from the source they created and not from some other source? are they of a specific energy level or something?

Well, other sources of background neutrinos are cosmic rays interacting in the upper atmosphere and geoneutrinos, coming from nuclear fission in the earth's core. These can come from any direction, but do have preferred directions ("up" and "down", respectively), while the beam is coming from only one direction.  Also, the beam is sent in very short pulses, so you can tell by the timing of the neutrino interaction in the detector and then comparing it to the beam pulse timing if it's beam or background related. This is what cuts down your backgrounds to almost nothing.


I should mention that geoneutrinos are really low-energy, and are hard to detect in the first place, so it's not a real background. I just wanted to give you an idea of where else neutrinos occur in nature.
 
2014-02-16 06:56:36 PM

Aquapope: Anybody think the Tea Party will go for funding for this?  The supercolliding superconductor in Texas was killed long before the Teabaggers even existed.  And this experiment is suppose to help us understand how the universe was created, which we already know because of this free book I found in a hotel room.  So this is a non-starter.


Bill Clinton shut down the SSC because Texas didn't vote for him. Learns some history.

/Mom was in HR down there
//Still have a bunch of SSC swag.
 
2014-02-16 08:19:26 PM

Cyber_Junk: jjorsett: Aquapope: Anybody think the Tea Party will go for funding for this?  The supercolliding superconductor in Texas was killed long before the Teabaggers even existed.  And this experiment is suppose to help us understand how the universe was created, which we already know because of this free book I found in a hotel room.  So this is a non-starter.

Being a member of the Tea Party movement and an engineer and an atheist, I say in the nicest possible way: take your infantile trolling to the politics tab where it belongs.

As an outside observer to your political process I have to agree that your Tea Party movement has been a driving force in dumbing-down your country.   Please hold them accountable for their anti-science views.  You're doing your party and your country no favours by letting that issue slide because they're on 'your' team.


Every political movement attracts members of fringe elements that, unbidden, attach themselves like limpets to the main body, because that's where the attention is directed and they see an opportunity to get some. The Democrats have their share of these as well. In the case of the Tea Party movement, the media goes out of its way to find the lunatics, grifters, and free-riders and does its best to make them its face. If they did this for the Democrats, you'd think it was a party of communists, eco-bombers, and 9/11 truthers.
 
2014-02-16 08:32:54 PM
Not like there is anything is South Dakota that anyone will miss.
 
2014-02-16 09:07:00 PM
Let's solve the easier, cheaper problems first.
 
2014-02-16 09:13:14 PM

GratuityIncluded: Let's solve the easier, cheaper problems first.


Sounds like a pretty reasonable price for getting rid of South Dakota.  Can we get a discount two-fer?
 
2014-02-16 09:15:38 PM

TheOther: GratuityIncluded: Let's solve the easier, cheaper problems first.

Sounds like a pretty reasonable price for getting rid of South Dakota.  Can we get a discount two-fer?


I was thinking of Utah.
 
2014-02-16 10:31:09 PM
I honestly did not read the article. I was just wondering what would they be beaming to South Dakota? What is in SD that would warrant this kind of experiment...

static4.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2014-02-16 10:58:50 PM

Richard_The_Clown: What is in SD that would warrant this kind of experiment...


So you've never been to the Corn Palace, eh?
 
2014-02-16 11:25:54 PM

ko_kyi: Richard_The_Clown: What is in SD that would warrant this kind of experiment...

So you've never been to the Corn Palace, eh?


Nope, can't say I have. Only "mid" American states I went to during my time with the circus was Michigan, Utah, Colorado and Illinois.
 
2014-02-17 12:37:32 AM

GratuityIncluded: Let's solve the easier, cheaper problems first.


No.

1. This is cheap.  See the F-35.
2. This is a recipe for a primitive agrarian society.
3. 50 years from now, this will matter.  You can quote me on that. The same way that Ada Lovelace's curious hobby matters to us now.
 
2014-02-17 12:44:18 AM

Richard_The_Clown: I honestly did not read the article. I was just wondering what would they be beaming to South Dakota? What is in SD that would warrant this kind of experiment...

[static4.wikia.nocookie.net image 850x478]


The serious answer is a hole in the ground. The Homestake mine is very deep and there's room for the large detectors this kind of work requires. Other sites were considered, some with better characteristics. It comes down to a sober balance of infrastructure cost and science reach.
 
2014-02-17 02:32:30 AM
Dear Department of Energy,

DON'T FARK THIS UP!
ESPECIALLY WITH THE WATER SUPPLY!

Signed,
A concerned citizen near the line of fire
 
2014-02-17 04:00:59 AM

TStodden: Dear Department of Energy...


...and PLEASE think of the children!
 
2014-02-17 06:32:21 AM

ko_kyi: stuhayes2010: How do you make a beam if neutrinos?

I believe atomic decay can create neutrinos.  I'd like to know how the hell you build a detector for something that goes through miles of rock without interacting but will interact with the detector.


Apparently they react with salt water, so you can build a spherical tank lined with sensors and filled with salt water to detect neutrinos. The tank might be a few meters across.
 
2014-02-17 10:57:34 AM

ko_kyi: stuhayes2010: How do you make a beam if neutrinos?

I believe atomic decay can create neutrinos.  I'd like to know how the hell you build a detector for something that goes through miles of rock without interacting but will interact with the detector.


It's not that neutrinos don't interact, it's that they interact  very rarely.  So the trick is to make a very intense beam with trillions and trillions of neutrinos, and eventually some of them will interact inside the detector.  The rest just pass on through, and out the other side of the earth, out into space.

The neutrino beam is complicated, but it starts out as a beam of protons in the accelerator hitting a stationary target (usually graphite), which kicks out a lot of pions, which are then focused into a pion beam, and then the pions decay into muons and neutrinos. The muons are stopped in rock and the neutrinos keep going.
 
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