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(YouTube) Video Steel shaft vs carbon fiber shaft. Place your bets   (youtube.com) divider line 26
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4434 clicks; posted to Video » on 15 Feb 2014 at 10:06 AM (44 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-02-15 09:21:15 AM  
static1.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2014-02-15 09:42:01 AM  
They say that shaft is a bad mother...
 
2014-02-15 09:47:06 AM  
Shut your mouth
 
2014-02-15 09:53:09 AM  
But I'm talkin' about shaft
 
2014-02-15 10:05:59 AM  
one and done.
 
2014-02-15 10:32:50 AM  
The true test is to crash one at 300mph...
 
2014-02-15 11:04:56 AM  
Not everything is roses.
img.fark.net
 
2014-02-15 11:19:03 AM  
Now try hitting them both with shock loads and watch the carbon fiber shatter.
 
2014-02-15 11:28:06 AM  

Interceptor1: Now try hitting them both with shock loads and watch the carbon fiber shatter.


Yup. Different materials for different purposes. Who woulda thunk it?
 
2014-02-15 11:51:28 AM  
Hamster doing the narration. Awesome.
 
2014-02-15 12:08:40 PM  
"Hammond!"
 
2014-02-15 12:54:29 PM  

2wolves: "Hammond!"


But how well can they be turned into a lorry and used as a boat to cross the channel to France faster than Jeremy can drive from Haverfordshire to East Undingtonshireford?!
 
2014-02-15 02:08:44 PM  
"It's just made of string."

...and nasty solvent resins.
 
2014-02-15 03:30:25 PM  

Interceptor1: Now try hitting them both with shock loads and watch the carbon fiber shatter.


This is an interesting deal when it comes to sailboats, where shock loads can be an issue. Offshore racers use carbon masts and booms because of the weight savings both in total and aloft (less weight up high is better. But plain old aluminum extrusions held with steel wire stays serve quite well for the cruiser who can, not being in a race, reduce the forces from the sails.

Having seen a carbon fibre boom shatter, I would prefer something that bent first, frankly.

That said, composite rigging, like PBO, probably makes more sense than steel rigging. And carbon fibre/Kevlar hulls are great in certain applications.
 
2014-02-15 04:06:13 PM  

Valiente: Interceptor1: Now try hitting them both with shock loads and watch the carbon fiber shatter.

This is an interesting deal when it comes to sailboats, where shock loads can be an issue. Offshore racers use carbon masts and booms because of the weight savings both in total and aloft (less weight up high is better. But plain old aluminum extrusions held with steel wire stays serve quite well for the cruiser who can, not being in a race, reduce the forces from the sails.

Having seen a carbon fibre boom shatter, I would prefer something that bent first, frankly.

That said, composite rigging, like PBO, probably makes more sense than steel rigging. And carbon fibre/Kevlar hulls are great in certain applications.


Carbon fiber can be manufactured to have flex. It all depends on the weave. On road bikes they use different weaves on different parts to give flex in certain directions. Bikes that are made to race on cobble stones for example have stiff chain stays and flexible seat stays. Same material, molded together, but the fibers are laid down in different ways.

Sure, if you smack it with a big enough hammer it will break, but if that's your test for everything you will lead a bleak life. "potato salad? how does it stand up to a good whack?"
 
2014-02-15 04:31:34 PM  
crotchgrabber:
Carbon fiber can be manufactured to have flex. It all depends on the weave. On road bikes they use different weaves on different parts to give flex in certain directions. Bikes that are made to race on cobble stones for example have stiff chain stays and flexible seat stays. Same material, molded together, but the fibers are laid down in different ways.

And these days we even have carbotanium which is all the strength with some flexibility and ability to withstand shock loads.

I love me some Italian chrome...
 
2014-02-15 04:36:31 PM  

moike: crotchgrabber:
Carbon fiber can be manufactured to have flex. It all depends on the weave. On road bikes they use different weaves on different parts to give flex in certain directions. Bikes that are made to race on cobble stones for example have stiff chain stays and flexible seat stays. Same material, molded together, but the fibers are laid down in different ways.

And these days we even have carbotanium which is all the strength with some flexibility and ability to withstand shock loads.

I love me some Italian chrome...


Hey, I just checked your profile. You coming down to Laguna Seca this year?
 
2014-02-15 04:59:46 PM  

Interceptor1: Now try hitting them both with shock loads and watch the carbon fiber shatter.


Leave them both in the Arizona sun for a month, lightly abrade both with a hacksaw blade. One notch.

Run the test again.
 
2014-02-15 05:01:13 PM  
crotchgrabber:

Hey, I just checked your profile. You coming down to Laguna Seca this year?

In a racing sense, no...  I'm taking a couple seasons off from competitive racing to give myself a break.  More focused on roller derby at the moment.  But, we still get cool high tech carbon fiber, billet, and titanium bits to play with in derby as well.

i268.photobucket.com

/that's about 1000 bucks worth of rollerskates
//or what I would spend in one weekend on tires and fuel when racing
 
2014-02-15 05:46:32 PM  

Valiente: Interceptor1: Now try hitting them both with shock loads and watch the carbon fiber shatter.

This is an interesting deal when it comes to sailboats, where shock loads can be an issue. Offshore racers use carbon masts and booms because of the weight savings both in total and aloft (less weight up high is better. But plain old aluminum extrusions held with steel wire stays serve quite well for the cruiser who can, not being in a race, reduce the forces from the sails.

Having seen a carbon fibre boom shatter, I would prefer something that bent first, frankly.

That said, composite rigging, like PBO, probably makes more sense than steel rigging. And carbon fibre/Kevlar hulls are great in certain applications.


PBO degrades when exposed to UV, steel does not. As long as you replace the standing rigging every few years, no problem, but that's an expensive proposition.  Lack of electrolysis in synthetics is pretty nice, but UV is a huge issue. Plus the manufacturing process for CF is sort of a scorched-earth affair. Something like 4-5x the weight of the finished product is used in the manufacture process and discarded. Not at all sustainable.
 
2014-02-15 06:24:36 PM  

The_Eliminator: Valiente: Interceptor1: Now try hitting them both with shock loads and watch the carbon fiber shatter.

This is an interesting deal when it comes to sailboats, where shock loads can be an issue. Offshore racers use carbon masts and booms because of the weight savings both in total and aloft (less weight up high is better. But plain old aluminum extrusions held with steel wire stays serve quite well for the cruiser who can, not being in a race, reduce the forces from the sails.

Having seen a carbon fibre boom shatter, I would prefer something that bent first, frankly.

That said, composite rigging, like PBO, probably makes more sense than steel rigging. And carbon fibre/Kevlar hulls are great in certain applications.

PBO degrades when exposed to UV, steel does not. As long as you replace the standing rigging every few years, no problem, but that's an expensive proposition.  Lack of electrolysis in synthetics is pretty nice, but UV is a huge issue. Plus the manufacturing process for CF is sort of a scorched-earth affair. Something like 4-5x the weight of the finished product is used in the manufacture process and discarded. Not at all sustainable.


Yep. Basically, you get more bang for buck with less waste when it comes to steel. CF is, indeed, a lovely material, suitable for impressing the folks at home and for specialized applications, but it's not replacing steel any time soon.
 
2014-02-15 10:45:13 PM  
How about reducing the carbon fiber till the strength is the same? Then the shaft would be even lighter.
 
2014-02-16 12:27:06 AM  

bullsballs: How about reducing the carbon fiber till the strength is the same? Then the shaft would be even lighter.



That stuff is so light already though...
 
2014-02-16 04:25:34 AM  
My personal favorite outrageous material is the carbon-carbon composites used to make submarine ICBM nose cones. Something like $30k per pound to produce, it's essentially carbon fiber that uses heat and acetylene gas to deposit graphite in lieu of a polymer like you'd normally use.
 
2014-02-16 10:03:08 AM  
tl;dw

who won?
 
2014-02-16 05:59:35 PM  

crotchgrabber: Valiente: Interceptor1: Now try hitting them both with shock loads and watch the carbon fiber shatter.

This is an interesting deal when it comes to sailboats, where shock loads can be an issue. Offshore racers use carbon masts and booms because of the weight savings both in total and aloft (less weight up high is better. But plain old aluminum extrusions held with steel wire stays serve quite well for the cruiser who can, not being in a race, reduce the forces from the sails.

Having seen a carbon fibre boom shatter, I would prefer something that bent first, frankly.

That said, composite rigging, like PBO, probably makes more sense than steel rigging. And carbon fibre/Kevlar hulls are great in certain applications.

Carbon fiber can be manufactured to have flex. It all depends on the weave. On road bikes they use different weaves on different parts to give flex in certain directions. Bikes that are made to race on cobble stones for example have stiff chain stays and flexible seat stays. Same material, molded together, but the fibers are laid down in different ways.

Sure, if you smack it with a big enough hammer it will break, but if that's your test for everything you will lead a bleak life. "potato salad? how does it stand up to a good whack?"


I'm aware of this, naturally. I have carbon fibre on my own bike (front forks). I would suggest, however, that the "hold, hold, SNAP" attribute of, say, a sailboat's boom might be seen as a deficiency if the boat is not a racer. Carbon fibre shafts, on the other hand, are both supported and not (usually) subject to the same shock loads. Metals, by contrast, tend to deform before they fragment.

Maybe it's just as was the case with fibreglass boats in 1960: They built them as if FG was wood, which meant "too thick with no increase in strength". It was a good 15 years before cored hulls and lighter layup using various weaves other than "90 degree cloth" became common. CF will reveal its ultimate properties as more objects are made from it.
 
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