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(Business Insider)   And the winner of this year's "Most Expensive Place in the US to Rent an Apartment" award goes to: Not so fast, New York and San Francisco... Williston, North Dakota, step up and claim your prize   (businessinsider.com) divider line 67
    More: Amusing, San Francisco, North Dakota, New York, apartments  
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9226 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Feb 2014 at 5:29 PM (36 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-02-14 05:13:29 PM  
This is the "oil boom" town I believe, so, I take it that this is just because there are so few apartments available, and all of a sudden an influx of people desperately needing apartments to live in.

/Supply and demand even works in places you wouldn't expect folks.
 
2014-02-14 05:31:20 PM  
To be fair, it's the only apartment in the state of North Dakota
 
2014-02-14 05:32:29 PM  

dletter: This is the "oil boom" town I believe, so, I take it that this is just because there are so few apartments available, and all of a sudden an influx of people desperately needing apartments to live in.

/Supply and demand even works in places you wouldn't expect folks.


That's exactly right.  It's a fracking boom town, and construction companies aren't able to build fast enough to meet oil/gas worker demand.

If I recall correctly, this town is actually having a problem with too little unemployment.  There are so many relatively lucrative jobs with the energy companies that there's practically no one left to work the restaurants and shopping centers.
 
2014-02-14 05:36:14 PM  

dletter: This is the "oil boom" town I believe, so, I take it that this is just because there are so few apartments available, and all of a sudden an influx of people desperately needing apartments to live in.

/Supply and demand even works in places you wouldn't expect folks.


Half correct.  It is the oil boom town, but this isn't because of so few apartments available.  There have been several hundred apartments going up all over Williston and the surrounding area.  Housing is way easier to find.  Man-camps are emptying out, and they've catered a lot of the new apartment complexes to wealthy oil execs and well-to-do roughnecks.  They have laundry services, maid service, etc.  Very much like a hotel, except... not.  Newer single family homes in Williston are going for $600k.  It's nuts what people are paying because they will never, ever see their money back.  This isn't about supply and demand, it's about greed and stupidity.
 
2014-02-14 05:36:54 PM  
so stupid.
buy an atco move it there.  they freakin sleep  up to 24 people.
 
2014-02-14 05:39:45 PM  

darwinpolice: dletter: This is the "oil boom" town I believe, so, I take it that this is just because there are so few apartments available, and all of a sudden an influx of people desperately needing apartments to live in.

/Supply and demand even works in places you wouldn't expect folks.

That's exactly right.  It's a fracking boom town, and construction companies aren't able to build fast enough to meet oil/gas worker demand.

If I recall correctly, this town is actually having a problem with too little unemployment.  There are so many relatively lucrative jobs with the energy companies that there's practically no one left to work the restaurants and shopping centers.


I come from NEPA, right in the center of that fracking boom, basically. I was in Philly at college at the time, but a lot of my friends that stuck around ended up living with their folks due to the ridiculously high rents and straight up scarcity. The people who did have apartments were forced out when their landlords decided they wanted in on that sweet, sweet gas cash. Now there is a big debate going back and forth about building new low-income housing.

The boom did end up helping my parents out, though. They decided to get out of dodge. Listed their house on a Thursday IIRC, and was sold at their asking price by the following Monday.
 
2014-02-14 05:40:03 PM  

FilmBELOH20: dletter: This is the "oil boom" town I believe, so, I take it that this is just because there are so few apartments available, and all of a sudden an influx of people desperately needing apartments to live in.

/Supply and demand even works in places you wouldn't expect folks.

Half correct.  It is the oil boom town, but this isn't because of so few apartments available.  There have been several hundred apartments going up all over Williston and the surrounding area.  Housing is way easier to find.  Man-camps are emptying out, and they've catered a lot of the new apartment complexes to wealthy oil execs and well-to-do roughnecks.  They have laundry services, maid service, etc.  Very much like a hotel, except... not.  Newer single family homes in Williston are going for $600k.  It's nuts what people are paying because they will never, ever see their money back.  This isn't about supply and demand, it's about greed and stupidity.


I'm sure there will be a few bright folks who will make their way there, make a sh*t-ton of money, and then get out while they're ahead.

/or they'll blow it all and have nothing to show for it
 
2014-02-14 05:40:38 PM  
This is a really, REALLY bad metric to use. What's the median income and the median cost of living? Back in the 90s. Flagstaff was the 3rd most expensive sity in the US to live in, NOT because of the cost for rent, but because of the median income-cost for rent+utilities+food was higher than most places. It was actually like.2% more expensive in New York, even though an apartment in NY was easily 5x as much because people didn't pay shiat there. Cost of living is not equal across the country.
 
2014-02-14 05:41:21 PM  
that san francisco number includes surrounding areas which are much cheaper. an 'entry level' apartment in the city itself is on average closer to 2500+.
 
2014-02-14 05:42:59 PM  

Mikey1969: This is a really, REALLY bad metric to use. What's the median income and the median cost of living? Back in the 90s. Flagstaff was the 3rd most expensive sity in the US to live in, NOT because of the cost for rent, but because of the median income-cost for rent+utilities+food was higher than most places. It was actually like.2% more expensive in New York, even though an apartment in NY was easily 5x as much because people didn't pay shiat there. Cost of living is not equal across the country.


this is a really good point, income is extremely relevant when discussing cost of living.
 
2014-02-14 05:43:25 PM  

darwinpolice: dletter: This is the "oil boom" town I believe, so, I take it that this is just because there are so few apartments available, and all of a sudden an influx of people desperately needing apartments to live in.

/Supply and demand even works in places you wouldn't expect folks.

That's exactly right.  It's a fracking boom town, and construction companies aren't able to build fast enough to meet oil/gas worker demand.

If I recall correctly, this town is actually having a problem with too little unemployment.  There are so many relatively lucrative jobs with the energy companies that there's practically no one left to work the restaurants and shopping centers.


Not to mention what the local police and fire departments are all of a sudden having to deal with (massive increases in prostitution, drugs, vandalism, theft, robbery, assault, rape) while being severely under-staffed and under-funded. Think Abilene, KS during the cattle drive boom days, *without* being allowed to simply get away with shooting the miscreants dead in the street or beating them to a bloody pulp to "send the message" that the local lawmen frown on your activities.
 
2014-02-14 05:44:01 PM  

FilmBELOH20: dletter: This is the "oil boom" town I believe, so, I take it that this is just because there are so few apartments available, and all of a sudden an influx of people desperately needing apartments to live in.

/Supply and demand even works in places you wouldn't expect folks.

Half correct.  It is the oil boom town, but this isn't because of so few apartments available.  There have been several hundred apartments going up all over Williston and the surrounding area.  Housing is way easier to find.  Man-camps are emptying out, and they've catered a lot of the new apartment complexes to wealthy oil execs and well-to-do roughnecks.  They have laundry services, maid service, etc.  Very much like a hotel, except... not.  Newer single family homes in Williston are going for $600k.  It's nuts what people are paying because they will never, ever see their money back.  This isn't about supply and demand, it's about greed and stupidity.


How long until it's a ghost town? 15, 20 years?
 
2014-02-14 05:44:01 PM  
They bunched up NYC with "New York-Northern New Jersey-Long Island, NY-NJ-PA".

I dare anyone to find a decent apartment in or near Manhattan for $1,504/mo.
 
2014-02-14 05:45:05 PM  
hey, what a second... the article said it looked at every town in the US.  but then, I couldn't find new york city.  Instead:

7. New York-Northern New Jersey-Long Island, NY-NJ-PA  ($1,504)

including apartment prices from northern new jersey will likely bring down the average rent.  it should be New York City.  or better, each borough.  i don't care how many people live in new jersey and commute, new jersey is not new york city.
 
2014-02-14 05:46:33 PM  
My brother just got back (we are in Mn)  Said it is like the wild west. Safety take a backseat to profits. people get hurt , no one cares, ten guys are waiting to take your place.  He had to just about kick the crap out of his employer to get paid. 80 hr weeks are the norm   Not usually
a fan of govt regulations but OSHA what the frack?
 
2014-02-14 05:47:03 PM  
Fracking in the town where my brother lives has driven the rental cost of a single-wide mobile home to $1500/month and that's in Bumfark, TX.
 
2014-02-14 05:47:03 PM  
Who wouldn't want to pay high rent and live in North Dakota, I ask you.
 
2014-02-14 05:47:11 PM  
I should drive up there with two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, and a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers... and also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of Budweiser, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.

I'd make a fortune. I bet those dudes are DESPERATE.
 
2014-02-14 05:50:38 PM  
Most worker's up in ND are renting rooms in trailers with up to 5 rooms. Included in the rent is a room, satellite tv, shared kitchen and living area. A maid service clans the trailer and  linens. It's a pretty good deal, since most guys up there just work. Not sure of the cost, butit's cheaper than renting.
 
2014-02-14 05:54:24 PM  

grinding_journalist: I should drive up there with two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, and a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers... and also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of Budweiser, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.

I'd make a fortune. I bet those dudes are DESPERATE.


May as well take a carload of hookers while you're at it.
 
2014-02-14 06:01:50 PM  
Our HVAC guy has been regularly driving from western MT to Williston twice a month for two years now.  So much money to be made in construction and housing.
 
2014-02-14 06:01:56 PM  

apoptotic: May as well take a carload of hookers while you're at it.


That was thought #2.

 Thought #3 was, "If I had (huge drug collection) and a half dozen whores, we'd never farkin' make it to the Dakotas."
 
2014-02-14 06:02:01 PM  

ClavellBCMI: darwinpolice: dletter: This is the "oil boom" town I believe, so, I take it that this is just because there are so few apartments available, and all of a sudden an influx of people desperately needing apartments to live in.

/Supply and demand even works in places you wouldn't expect folks.

That's exactly right.  It's a fracking boom town, and construction companies aren't able to build fast enough to meet oil/gas worker demand.

If I recall correctly, this town is actually having a problem with too little unemployment.  There are so many relatively lucrative jobs with the energy companies that there's practically no one left to work the restaurants and shopping centers.

Not to mention what the local police and fire departments are all of a sudden having to deal with (massive increases in prostitution, drugs, vandalism, theft, robbery, assault, rape) while being severely under-staffed and under-funded. Think Abilene, KS during the cattle drive boom days, *without* being allowed to simply get away with shooting the miscreants dead in the street or beating them to a bloody pulp to "send the message" that the local lawmen frown on your activities.


Yup.  They covered it on NPR a few weeks ago.
 
2014-02-14 06:06:02 PM  

grinding_journalist: I should drive up there with two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, and a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers... and also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of Budweiser, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.

I'd make a fortune. I bet those dudes are DESPERATE.


As your lawyer,
I would advise against it.
 
2014-02-14 06:09:40 PM  
Yeah but I wonder what the price is for any top shelf snatch? Not talking about hookers, there's always a price with regular women too.

/Don't believe me? Ever gotten laid spending less than $50?
 
2014-02-14 06:13:46 PM  

grinding_journalist: I should drive up there with two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, and a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers... and also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of Budweiser, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.

I'd make a fortune. I bet those dudes are DESPERATE.


Hey man! We were supposed to be saving that for the concert!
 
2014-02-14 06:17:46 PM  

Joe Peanut: They bunched up NYC with "New York-Northern New Jersey-Long Island, NY-NJ-PA".

I dare anyone to find a decent apartment in or near Manhattan for $1,504/mo.


You can find one in Queens fairly easily, and be less than a half hour from midtown.

See also: parkchester, in the Bronx.
 
2014-02-14 06:21:48 PM  
Oil boom + high wages + shortage of housing + land lords wanting to cash in= high rent
 
2014-02-14 06:22:40 PM  

FilmBELOH20: dletter: This is the "oil boom" town I believe, so, I take it that this is just because there are so few apartments available, and all of a sudden an influx of people desperately needing apartments to live in.

/Supply and demand even works in places you wouldn't expect folks.

Half correct.  It is the oil boom town, but this isn't because of so few apartments available.  There have been several hundred apartments going up all over Williston and the surrounding area.  Housing is way easier to find.  Man-camps are emptying out, and they've catered a lot of the new apartment complexes to wealthy oil execs and well-to-do roughnecks.  They have laundry services, maid service, etc.  Very much like a hotel, except... not.  Newer single family homes in Williston are going for $600k.  It's nuts what people are paying because they will never, ever see their money back.  This isn't about supply and demand, it's about greed and stupidity.


You make it sound like that the oil God put under Williston will eventually run out, and leave the town an empty shell because there is no other business in town aside from oil production thanks to Obama and his desire to raise the minimum wage.
 
2014-02-14 06:22:46 PM  
It would be awfully tempting to do something like that for a year, save a lot of money, and then move all while trying to get killed or maimed in an industrial accident.
 
2014-02-14 06:25:48 PM  
Looks like, once again Hawaii gets left off their spiffy map, which wouldn't be a problem except for the fact that Honolulu has some of the highest rents in the nation (along with some of the highest general cost of living)
 
2014-02-14 06:28:14 PM  

grimlock1972: Oil boom + high wages + shortage of housing + land lords wanting to cash in= high rent


You forgot about the mass infestation of out of state trash.
 
2014-02-14 06:28:20 PM  

snowshovel: FilmBELOH20: dletter: This is the "oil boom" town I believe, so, I take it that this is just because there are so few apartments available, and all of a sudden an influx of people desperately needing apartments to live in.

/Supply and demand even works in places you wouldn't expect folks.

Half correct.  It is the oil boom town, but this isn't because of so few apartments available.  There have been several hundred apartments going up all over Williston and the surrounding area.  Housing is way easier to find.  Man-camps are emptying out, and they've catered a lot of the new apartment complexes to wealthy oil execs and well-to-do roughnecks.  They have laundry services, maid service, etc.  Very much like a hotel, except... not.  Newer single family homes in Williston are going for $600k.  It's nuts what people are paying because they will never, ever see their money back.  This isn't about supply and demand, it's about greed and stupidity.

You make it sound like that the oil God put under Williston will eventually run out, and leave the town an empty shell because there is no other business in town aside from oil production thanks to Obama and his desire to raise the minimum wage.


Wasn't shiat in Willisten before oil, won't be shiat after
 
2014-02-14 06:36:48 PM  
I work in the patch and stay less than an hour from Wiliston, and I'm totally getting a kick out of these comments.
 
2014-02-14 06:45:54 PM  

pxlboy: I'm sure there will be a few bright folks who will make their way there, make a sh*t-ton of money, and then get out while they're ahead.


I thought part of the draw or "allure" of working in a remote boom town like Williston was because since there's a near dearth of anything to do and/or spend money on, you almost can't help but pocket most of what you earn.

I'm well aware that prostitution and stuff can move into those towns, but, Christ....I can get horny with the best of them but I can't fathom blowing THAT much money away on that.
 
2014-02-14 06:47:29 PM  

MontanaDave: I work in the patch and stay less than an hour from Wiliston, and I'm totally getting a kick out of these comments.


I live two hours from Williston and stay as far the Fark away as humanly possible at all times.
 
2014-02-14 06:51:34 PM  

Killer Cars: pxlboy: I'm sure there will be a few bright folks who will make their way there, make a sh*t-ton of money, and then get out while they're ahead.

I thought part of the draw or "allure" of working in a remote boom town like Williston was because since there's a near dearth of anything to do and/or spend money on, you almost can't help but pocket most of what you earn.

I'm well aware that prostitution and stuff can move into those towns, but, Christ....I can get horny with the best of them but I can't fathom blowing THAT much money away on that.


I watched a guy drop $5k at a poker table at the aboriginal casino in New Town (about an hour away).  His last words to the dealer as he walked away were "see you tomorrow..."
 
2014-02-14 06:58:30 PM  
Prices out this way are way higher to boot. In Western South Duhkota the low wages combined with insanely high housing makes for a bad situation. The oil boom spreads outward and this dump is impacted as well. It ain't worth it.....
 
2014-02-14 07:03:53 PM  
Holy shiat.  When I lived there in 1999, I told all my friends back in Florida how ridiculously cheap that town was.  $200, utilities and cable included, for a 2 bedroom apartment.  Of course, that was in between oil/natural gas booms, so the population had dropped back down to ~12,000.  Whole blocks of empty houses and apartments.
 
TWX
2014-02-14 07:15:32 PM  
A friend of mine attempted to do the oil-boom thing, towns aren't generally having it like boom-towns of old.  Existing residents have worked hard to limit the number of new people in their towns and to essentially forestall all new residential construction.  That leaves apartments ludicrously expensive and even renting a room as a boarder merely ridiculously expensive.

On the one hand it seems dickish, but on the other hand these towns have learned the lessons of what has happened to boomtowns and don't want their towns to go bust when the industry moves on.  I'm surprised that the oil companies haven't found a way to build unincorporated communities using modular buildings to semipermanently house workers, but where they can be taken down and moved or removed when necessary.

The company wanted my friend to be a safety officer but they wanted him to demonstrate that he had somewhere at least somewhat permanent to live before they'd give him the job, as the job would involve a lot of company-paid-for training.  He ended up getting out of the business altogether given the hostility he encountered trying to find a place to live.
 
2014-02-14 07:31:26 PM  

Mikey1969: This is a really, REALLY bad metric to use. What's the median income and the median cost of living? Back in the 90s. Flagstaff was the 3rd most expensive sity in the US to live in, NOT because of the cost for rent, but because of the median income-cost for rent+utilities+food was higher than most places. It was actually like.2% more expensive in New York, even though an apartment in NY was easily 5x as much because people didn't pay shiat there. Cost of living is not equal across the country.


Income is irrelevant. If you want to use that metric, then a Mac Pro costs 100 USD in Egypt because bread is cheap.

PPP is bullshiat in this context.
 
2014-02-14 07:53:32 PM  

spawn73: Mikey1969: This is a really, REALLY bad metric to use. What's the median income and the median cost of living? Back in the 90s. Flagstaff was the 3rd most expensive sity in the US to live in, NOT because of the cost for rent, but because of the median income-cost for rent+utilities+food was higher than most places. It was actually like.2% more expensive in New York, even though an apartment in NY was easily 5x as much because people didn't pay shiat there. Cost of living is not equal across the country.

Income is irrelevant. If you want to use that metric, then a Mac Pro costs 100 USD in Egypt because bread is cheap.

PPP is bullshiat in this context.


Not really.

Chicago pays $45K, SF pays $90K*.  A $1600 apartment in Chicago is just farking stupid, while a $2100 apartment in the Valley is merely expensive.

*Actual job offers.  Well, SF's cheaper than that, but I got stock.  So when we sell out, I get a nice 5-7 figure payout (Number is probably higher as time goes on). Divide by 1-10 years.
 
2014-02-14 07:55:02 PM  

spawn73: Mikey1969: This is a really, REALLY bad metric to use. What's the median income and the median cost of living? Back in the 90s. Flagstaff was the 3rd most expensive sity in the US to live in, NOT because of the cost for rent, but because of the median income-cost for rent+utilities+food was higher than most places. It was actually like.2% more expensive in New York, even though an apartment in NY was easily 5x as much because people didn't pay shiat there. Cost of living is not equal across the country.

Income is irrelevant. If you want to use that metric, then a Mac Pro costs 100 USD in Egypt because bread is cheap.

PPP is bullshiat in this context.


Spoken by someone who's never lived in a town where they don't pay shiat anywhere because there is always a college student who will do it for less.

You make far less on average in a place like Flag. When they open a Chili's and have 2000 applicants the week before they open, and are expecting another 1000 in the final week, it speaks volumes. At the time, average cost of living was something like 37.7% of average income, while NY was about 37.5%. So yeah, it was cheaper to live in NY.
 
2014-02-14 07:55:16 PM  

dletter: This is the "oil boom" town I believe, so, I take it that this is just because there are so few apartments available, and all of a sudden an influx of people desperately needing apartments to live in.

/Supply and demand even works in places you wouldn't expect folks.


Yeah and most of the time its companies footing these bills so people charge even more.
 
2014-02-14 08:17:29 PM  

grinding_journalist: I should drive up there with two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, and a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers... and also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of Budweiser, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.

I'd make a fortune. I bet those dudes are DESPERATE.


I think you'll find a lot of competition.  From the few things I've read about Williston in recent years is it's already a drug filled cesspool.  IIRC Williston has been the crack/meth capitol of ND and surrounding states for some time now.  I drive through there once a year and the change in the town and surrounding area is unbelievable.
 
2014-02-14 08:19:55 PM  

Mikey1969: spawn73: Mikey1969: This is a really, REALLY bad metric to use. What's the median income and the median cost of living? Back in the 90s. Flagstaff was the 3rd most expensive sity in the US to live in, NOT because of the cost for rent, but because of the median income-cost for rent+utilities+food was higher than most places. It was actually like.2% more expensive in New York, even though an apartment in NY was easily 5x as much because people didn't pay shiat there. Cost of living is not equal across the country.

Income is irrelevant. If you want to use that metric, then a Mac Pro costs 100 USD in Egypt because bread is cheap.

PPP is bullshiat in this context.

Spoken by someone who's never lived in a town where they don't pay shiat anywhere because there is always a college student who will do it for less.

You make far less on average in a place like Flag. When they open a Chili's and have 2000 applicants the week before they open, and are expecting another 1000 in the final week, it speaks volumes. At the time, average cost of living was something like 37.7% of average income, while NY was about 37.5%. So yeah, it was cheaper to live in NY.


It felt cheaper, because you had more money. But it wasn't.

PPP just skews things so people can't understand the context.
 
2014-02-14 08:20:51 PM  

creepingdeath: grimlock1972: Oil boom + high wages + shortage of housing + land lords wanting to cash in= high rent

You forgot about the mass infestation of out of state trash.


that is implied by the high wages as they attract all sorts, i have not been to the oil boom area of North Dakota so i choose not to judge who has moved their.
 
2014-02-14 08:27:42 PM  

spawn73: Mikey1969: spawn73: Mikey1969: This is a really, REALLY bad metric to use. What's the median income and the median cost of living? Back in the 90s. Flagstaff was the 3rd most expensive sity in the US to live in, NOT because of the cost for rent, but because of the median income-cost for rent+utilities+food was higher than most places. It was actually like.2% more expensive in New York, even though an apartment in NY was easily 5x as much because people didn't pay shiat there. Cost of living is not equal across the country.

Income is irrelevant. If you want to use that metric, then a Mac Pro costs 100 USD in Egypt because bread is cheap.

PPP is bullshiat in this context.

Spoken by someone who's never lived in a town where they don't pay shiat anywhere because there is always a college student who will do it for less.

You make far less on average in a place like Flag. When they open a Chili's and have 2000 applicants the week before they open, and are expecting another 1000 in the final week, it speaks volumes. At the time, average cost of living was something like 37.7% of average income, while NY was about 37.5%. So yeah, it was cheaper to live in NY.

It felt cheaper, because you had more money. But it wasn't.

PPP just skews things so people can't understand the context.


Sorry, no.

I had less money, as I lived in the more expensive city.

But thanks.
 
2014-02-14 08:43:48 PM  
Mikey1969:
Sorry, no.

I had less money, as I lived in the more expensive city.

But thanks.


Thanks for what?

That you claim that an apartment that costs 1000USD is more expensive than one that costs 800USD, irregardless of your income? Like 200USD more?

PPP is bullshiat.
 
2014-02-14 09:49:11 PM  

MontanaDave: I work in the patch and stay less than an hour from Wiliston, and I'm totally getting a kick out of these comments.


I work in the oil industry, live IN Williston, and am getting a kick out of these comments too.

/Not really, my company doesn't pay for my housing anymore...
//Anyone company out here looking for an engineer?
 
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