If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Washington Post)   Bruce Fein's ex-wife subtly hints that he has been slighted. And by "subtly" I mean releases a bunch of emails to the Washington Post and tells Ken Cuccinelli that he "is dumber than a box of rocks" in a direct message - RAND PAUL   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 24
    More: Obvious, Cuccinelli, Bruce Fein, Rand Paul, NSA, Attorney General of Virginia, constitutional law, email forwarding, e-mails  
•       •       •

1324 clicks; posted to Politics » on 14 Feb 2014 at 10:33 AM (27 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



24 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2014-02-14 10:37:11 AM
The ex-wife goes by her (formerly) married name but the ex-husband refers to her by her (presumably) maiden name?  I'm guessing he asked for the divorce and she's trying to get back in there with him.
 
2014-02-14 10:37:21 AM
PAUL's fiasco is going to screw up a great chance to have the NSA's spying on innocent Americans checked.
 
2014-02-14 10:42:48 AM
Hold on a second -- how big of a bag?
 
2014-02-14 10:44:13 AM
The exchange supports the charge that Rand and Cuccinelli are using the suit as personal PR rather than as a legitimate challenge to the NSA.
 
2014-02-14 10:45:15 AM
Fein's ex has access to his emails, airs his dirty laundry in public, and insults someone working closely with his client.

Not too good for Bruce's future prospects. I can't think high-profile clients would go near him after this.
 
2014-02-14 10:46:19 AM

Muta: PAUL's fiasco is going to screw up a great chance to have the NSA's spying on innocent Americans checked.


Yes, but I have to say I have a healthy sense of schadenfreude for this situation. One of the key talking heads behind the debt ceiling fight getting in trouble for not paying his personal bills. Wonderful parallels provided once more by the party of "personal responsibility"
 
2014-02-14 10:46:28 AM
Just figured out what he's smoking. Imported from Colorado.

images.nymag.com
 
2014-02-14 10:46:33 AM

Muta: PAUL's fiasco is going to screw up a great chance to have the NSA's spying on innocent Americans checked.


no, data is being collected on innocent Americans. Spying on calls only happen after a court says it's ok. You can be against those things but don't lie what is happening.

Also no, Paul would have done jack shiat about it. He just makes a lot of noise so imbeciles will vote for him.
 
2014-02-14 10:47:43 AM
>"dumb as a box of rocks"

Title is inaccurate. NICE TRY LIBTARDS. YOUR WHOLE POINT IS INVALID.
 
2014-02-14 10:48:22 AM
Oh for the love of Science, why can't ANY of these idiot reporters just talk to a lawyer before spouting their moronic nonsense?  The names on a pleading are not the authors.  Replacing them with someone else changes who is representing the parties, not who wrote the pleading.  Pleadings are not academic papers.  No one in court CARES who actually wrote the pleading.  If pleadings had the authors' names at the top, half of all pleadings would have the names of 3rd year law students and low level associates.

Is Ken Cuccineli a moron?  Of course.  Is Rand Paul?  Of course.  Is he a plagiarizer?  Yup, he sure is.  Does that make one idiot changing his legal team to another idiot plagiarism?  No.
 
2014-02-14 10:48:23 AM

yakmans_dad: The exchange supports the charge that Rand and Cuccinelli are using the suit as personal PR rather than as a legitimate challenge to the NSA.



Of course they are. If they wanted to do something constructive they could offer legislation to actually fix the problem.
 
2014-02-14 10:50:20 AM

MisterRonbo: Fein's ex has access to his emails, airs his dirty laundry in public, and insults someone working closely with his client.

Not too good for Bruce's future prospects. I can't think high-profile clients would go near him after this.


As soon as I saw Fein's statement last night disavowing her as his spokesperson I figured she was an angry ex deliberately trying to make him look bad to the legal community by starting a scandal that the regular public would believe but any other lawyers would know is nonsense.
 
2014-02-14 11:09:41 AM
I don't know how this will effect Rand Paul, but that Mattie Fein broad seems a little unhinged to me.
 
2014-02-14 11:12:54 AM
Paul also thinks drone use abroad is bad, but is perfectly fine for picking off shoplifters at 7-11.

I know teabaggers are brain-addled, but I see not one reason to take the man seriously on anything.
 
2014-02-14 11:40:31 AM
Maybe it's just me, but I'm sure having a hard time getting outraged over this.
 
2014-02-14 11:43:24 AM

MontanaDave: Maybe it's just me, but I'm sure having a hard time getting outraged over this.


It's hard to get invested in soap operas if you try to pick up the stories with one episode.
 
2014-02-14 11:51:19 AM
Comparing the Cooch to a box of rocks is really insulting...to the box of rocks.
 
2014-02-14 12:23:33 PM

Emposter: Oh for the love of Science, why can't ANY of these idiot reporters just talk to a lawyer before spouting their moronic nonsense?  The names on a pleading are not the authors.  Replacing them with someone else changes who is representing the parties, not who wrote the pleading.  Pleadings are not academic papers.  No one in court CARES who actually wrote the pleading.  If pleadings had the authors' names at the top, half of all pleadings would have the names of 3rd year law students and low level associates.

Is Ken Cuccineli a moron?  Of course.  Is Rand Paul?  Of course.  Is he a plagiarizer?  Yup, he sure is.  Does that make one idiot changing his legal team to another idiot plagiarism?  No.


You're kind of missing the POINT.   Cuccinelli took the work product of another attorney, and without that Attorney's permission or knowledge, put his name on that work product and filed it with the court as if he was the one who wrote the complaint.   There is no mention of Fein even included in the pleading.

To be clear Bruce Fein, as an attorney, is/was an independent contractor and as a matter of law, the intellectual property (Copyright) in that work belongs 100% to him.   Cuccinelli can't simply take Fein's work and claim it as his own, what he did was unethical and illegal.  (If Fein wanted to push it, he certainly has a slam dunk of a case for copyright infringement.)

If I took another attorney's complaint (pleadings) and simply erased their name off the documents and submitted them to the court as my own and if the other attorney found out about it and was displeased, I'll guarantee you that he/she could file a motion with the court and the judge would have both of us in front of the bar ASAP.  I could very well find myself disqualified from the case and the judge could refer the matter to the State Bar recommending I be disciplined.

I was just involved in something very similar in some litigation in Houston last year.  Some very similar type behavior by the other side's attorney's including using a non-licensed lawyer to make a court appearance and sign pleadings.  (In addition to some other issues involving their client's former attorney, which are somewhat analogous to this situation.).   The only thing that saved their asses (for the time being) was that the two client's had agreed to settle.  Other than that, the Fed Judge was in the mood to slam those attorneys.  I got a call 5 months after the trial was concluded from an investigator from the Texas State Bar Assoc., it seems that they had received a complaint about these attorneys and were investigating their conduct in regards to this litigation matter in particular.  We know it didn't originate from us, so that only left the judge who could have filed the complaint.
 
2014-02-14 12:34:12 PM

Emposter: As soon as I saw Fein's statement last night disavowing her as his spokesperson I figured she was an angry ex deliberately trying to make him look bad to the legal community by starting a scandal that the regular public would believe but any other lawyers would know is nonsense.


How the hell do you reason she's making Fein, look bad?   Fein is the aggrieved party in this case.

He and his ex jointly own a lobbying/PR firm, of which he uses from time to time to conduct a legal practice. He gets hired by Rand Paul to prepare a complaint and represent Paul and others (class action) in a suit against the NSA.  Fein spends a few hundred hours doing the work, sends a draft copy of the complaint over to Paul to review and the next thing he knows, without being asked permission or even being given a courtesy call, Ken Cuccinelli files the near identical pleading the with District Ct (all references to Fein, having been scrubbed from the document.)   On the date of the filing, Paul (and his group) had only paid around $15,000 of the near $50,000 bill they had accumulated with Fein.

Fein's ex, as part of the firm, demands full payment and is critical (rightfully so) of the conduct of Cuccinelli in basically stealing Fein's copyrighted work and pawning it off as his own.

I see nothing that's reflecting poorly on Fein, I see a client who doesn't pay his bills and an attorney who is completely willing to steal another attorney's work.

Paul and Cuccinelli are the bad guys here.
 
2014-02-14 12:35:13 PM
Plagiarists gonna plagiarize.

~RAND PAUL
 
2014-02-14 01:14:23 PM

lawboy87: Emposter: Oh for the love of Science, why can't ANY of these idiot reporters just talk to a lawyer before spouting their moronic nonsense?  The names on a pleading are not the authors.  Replacing them with someone else changes who is representing the parties, not who wrote the pleading.  Pleadings are not academic papers.  No one in court CARES who actually wrote the pleading.  If pleadings had the authors' names at the top, half of all pleadings would have the names of 3rd year law students and low level associates.

Is Ken Cuccineli a moron?  Of course.  Is Rand Paul?  Of course.  Is he a plagiarizer?  Yup, he sure is.  Does that make one idiot changing his legal team to another idiot plagiarism?  No.

You're kind of missing the POINT.   Cuccinelli took the work product of another attorney, and without that Attorney's permission or knowledge, put his name on that work product and filed it with the court as if he was the one who wrote the complaint.   There is no mention of Fein even included in the pleading.

To be clear Bruce Fein, as an attorney, is/was an independent contractor and as a matter of law, the intellectual property (Copyright) in that work belongs 100% to him.   Cuccinelli can't simply take Fein's work and claim it as his own, what he did was unethical and illegal.  (If Fein wanted to push it, he certainly has a slam dunk of a case for copyright infringement.)

If I took another attorney's complaint (pleadings) and simply erased their name off the documents and submitted them to the court as my own and if the other attorney found out about it and was displeased, I'll guarantee you that he/she could file a motion with the court and the judge would have both of us in front of the bar ASAP.  I could very well find myself disqualified from the case and the judge could refer the matter to the State Bar recommending I be disciplined.

I was just involved in something very similar in some litigation in Houston last year.  Some very similar type behavior by ...


Putting your name on the pleading isn't calling it your own, it means that you're taking responibility for what's in it - everything is true to the best of your knowledge, you've resonably investigated the clams, etc.  Hell, the lawyer doesn't even own the file, the moment the client wants to change lawyers you have to box up the file and send it to them.  Are you asserting that if a client changes lawyers in the middle of a case, that the new lawyers have to re-plead everything because the original petition(s) are the property of the old lawyers?  What if they alleged the same causes of action or same defenses?  Is that plagiarism?  As long as the lawyer gets paid for his work, that's all that matters to him.  No lawyer has a right to be on the pleadings.  There's no special line to acknowledge who drafted the pleading or motion vs. who is submitting or filing.
 
2014-02-14 01:17:51 PM

Muta: PAUL's fiasco is going to screw up a great chance to have the NSA's spying on innocent Americans checked.


Yeah, as soon as RAND PAUL foisted himself into this, you had to know that it was just going to turn into a total clownshow.

If only RAND PAUL were a member of a body in which he could introduce new legislation that changes the current law.
 
2014-02-14 01:34:56 PM

lawboy87: Emposter: Oh for the love of Science, why can't ANY of these idiot reporters just talk to a lawyer before spouting their moronic nonsense?  The names on a pleading are not the authors.  Replacing them with someone else changes who is representing the parties, not who wrote the pleading.  Pleadings are not academic papers.  No one in court CARES who actually wrote the pleading.  If pleadings had the authors' names at the top, half of all pleadings would have the names of 3rd year law students and low level associates.

Is Ken Cuccineli a moron?  Of course.  Is Rand Paul?  Of course.  Is he a plagiarizer?  Yup, he sure is.  Does that make one idiot changing his legal team to another idiot plagiarism?  No.

You're kind of missing the POINT.   Cuccinelli took the work product of another attorney, and without that Attorney's permission or knowledge, put his name on that work product and filed it with the court as if he was the one who wrote the complaint.   There is no mention of Fein even included in the pleading.

To be clear Bruce Fein, as an attorney, is/was an independent contractor and as a matter of law, the intellectual property (Copyright) in that work belongs 100% to him.   Cuccinelli can't simply take Fein's work and claim it as his own, what he did was unethical and illegal.  (If Fein wanted to push it, he certainly has a slam dunk of a case for copyright infringement.)

If I took another attorney's complaint (pleadings) and simply erased their name off the documents and submitted them to the court as my own and if the other attorney found out about it and was displeased, I'll guarantee you that he/she could file a motion with the court and the judge would have both of us in front of the bar ASAP.  I could very well find myself disqualified from the case and the judge could refer the matter to the State Bar recommending I be disciplined.

I was just involved in something very similar in some litigation in Houston last year.  Some very similar type behavior by ...


I'm afraid you're the one missing the point, because you appear to have some of the facts wrong and have mixed up copyright infringement and plagiarism.

First, the primary fact you mixed up is that Fein was not the only lawyer working on the pleading, and hence is not the sole (100%) owner of the work.  He has freely admitted he was part of a legal team and was paid for his work.  This would make him a co-owner only, which means any of the other co-owners (who I assume still work for Paul) could give permission for use of the pleading by a non-owner.


The fact that Fein was paid for his work may also be relevant (may in fact be dispositive).  Assuming that his reason for stating that he had been paid was to imply that he had authorized the use of what he had produced up to that point by Paul, then any future attorneys brought on for this particular case would be authorized to use the pleading as well, regardless of if Fein was the only author, and regardless of if Fein later chose to authorize use by new attorneys or not.  The Kaplan case just at the end of last year established that when an attorney authorizes the use of a document in which he has copyright to a client in a litigation, he irrevocably authorizes the continuing use of those documents by later lawyers, including "the incorporation of all or a portion" of the document.  The big question, for me, with regards to Kaplan, is whether the use by Paul is authorized, since in Kaplan the authorization by the original author was the filing of the complaint.  Hence my earlier thoughts on whether the statement that he had been paid for his work was meant to imply that he had authorized it's use.  In any even, joint ownership makes it moot, and none of this is relevant AT ALL to plagiarism.

Copyright in legal filings is sort of odd, in that you can have full protection prior to filing, but you lose much of it after filing, because it becomes public record.  This can be especially important when outside works are included as exhibits, because they become public record too.  This is mostly moot, since the pleading wasn't filed, so it hadn't become public record. Moreover, just because a person has the right to copy it doesn't mean they have the right to incorporate it into a new work, making it moot even if it had been filed.  So, I don't know why I wrote this paragraph, but moving on...

Copyright infringement is not necessarily plagiarism, nor is plagiarism necessarily copyright infringement.  The most obvious example is to take a person copying a work in the public domain.  To do so would not be copyright infringement, because no copyright exists.  However, it would be plagiarism, because you're trying to pass it off as your own.  Similarly, you can copy a copyrighted work, including identifying the correct author, and still have infringed (most copyright infringement makes no attempt to change authorship).  However, to do so would not be plagiarism, because you have not attempted to pass off the work as your own.

Copyright infringement aside, having been addressed above, this would only be plagiarism if the person identified as counsel in legal pleadings was synonymous with the author of the pleading, which I think you know isn't true.  Certainly, they are sometimes one and the same, especially when you have an independent lawyer working a case by him/herself.  Much of the time, however, a lawyer is part of a legal team (as here), or has subordinates who do grunt work like bulk research and writing, and the person identified as counsel will have actually written or worked on a small portion, if any, of the actual final written product itself.  The bottom line is that being identified as counsel on a pleading is not a claim to have personally authored that pleading, and absent that claim, there is no plagiarism.

The bottom line is that Rand has committed plagiarism before, but hasn't here.  However, the media, desperate to continue the theme, is trying to stuff this almost-copyright-infringment-shaped-douchebaggery into a plagiarism-shaped-douchebaggery box...and it doesn't fit.  Not for me, at least.
 
2014-02-14 02:08:35 PM
So basically, Rand's team has plagiarized him and they didn't pay him... but once it became a public problem they probably paid him and then told him to make this whole public issue go away or they'd blackball him in the "conservative" community, threatening his future access to that sweet, sweet republican idiot cash.
 
Displayed 24 of 24 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report