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15119 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Feb 2014 at 6:37 AM (36 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-02-14 08:46:32 PM  

grumpfuff: ckccfa: grumpfuff: soporific: grumpfuff: soporific: Waldo Pepper: I'm a Christian and one thing i've always tried to remember as a Christian is that Judas was a zealot. The commission a Christian is called is to lead people to Christ, not to be their morals judge and jury.

I like to remind my fellow Christians, when they talk about wanting to "legislate God's law," is that legislated morality killed Jesus. The people who ordered Jesus' death did so because He violated their theocratic laws. Oh, and those people were also the religious conservatives of their day.

lolwut

Yeah, that's pretty much how they react.

I'd be curious to read your paper that argues Rome was a theocracy.

/Protip: Crucifixion was a Roman punishment, not a Jewish one

The Emperor was considered a god, and cults were dedicated to his worship?

And as long as you paid your taxes and didn't raise no rabble, they didn't much give two shiats what you did.


It's true, but Rome was still a nation with it's ruler also installed as a god with his own state religion, and if they didn't like you for whatever reason, they were always willing to use those cards to kill you.  It's basic theocratic structure is what eventually became the Catholic Church, and when the emperor was eventually a Christian, boom, whole thing became a theocratic state.  It's just that they mostly didn't bother people, especially in the outlying territories, because they valued the general stability that brought in the taxes.
 
2014-02-14 08:54:54 PM  

ckccfa: grumpfuff: ckccfa: grumpfuff: soporific: grumpfuff: soporific: Waldo Pepper: I'm a Christian and one thing i've always tried to remember as a Christian is that Judas was a zealot. The commission a Christian is called is to lead people to Christ, not to be their morals judge and jury.

I like to remind my fellow Christians, when they talk about wanting to "legislate God's law," is that legislated morality killed Jesus. The people who ordered Jesus' death did so because He violated their theocratic laws. Oh, and those people were also the religious conservatives of their day.

lolwut

Yeah, that's pretty much how they react.

I'd be curious to read your paper that argues Rome was a theocracy.

/Protip: Crucifixion was a Roman punishment, not a Jewish one

The Emperor was considered a god, and cults were dedicated to his worship?

And as long as you paid your taxes and didn't raise no rabble, they didn't much give two shiats what you did.

It's true, but Rome was still a nation with it's ruler also installed as a god with his own state religion, and if they didn't like you for whatever reason, they were always willing to use those cards to kill you.  It's basic theocratic structure is what eventually became the Catholic Church, and when the emperor was eventually a Christian, boom, whole thing became a theocratic state.  It's just that they mostly didn't bother people, especially in the outlying territories, because they valued the general stability that brought in the taxes.


Meh. It still falls short of a theocracy. Yes, they had an official religion, but it was neither strictly enforced or codified into law. Other religions were accepted and even, in certain ways encouraged.

Admittedly, that changed a lot with the rise of Christianity, but that's Christianity, not Rome.


Also, my original point in responding was OP sounded like a "Jews killed Jesus" type.
 
2014-02-14 09:12:28 PM  

grumpfuff: ckccfa: grumpfuff: ckccfa: grumpfuff: soporific: grumpfuff: soporific: Waldo Pepper: I'm a Christian and one thing i've always tried to remember as a Christian is that Judas was a zealot. The commission a Christian is called is to lead people to Christ, not to be their morals judge and jury.

I like to remind my fellow Christians, when they talk about wanting to "legislate God's law," is that legislated morality killed Jesus. The people who ordered Jesus' death did so because He violated their theocratic laws. Oh, and those people were also the religious conservatives of their day.

lolwut

Yeah, that's pretty much how they react.

I'd be curious to read your paper that argues Rome was a theocracy.

/Protip: Crucifixion was a Roman punishment, not a Jewish one

The Emperor was considered a god, and cults were dedicated to his worship?

And as long as you paid your taxes and didn't raise no rabble, they didn't much give two shiats what you did.

It's true, but Rome was still a nation with it's ruler also installed as a god with his own state religion, and if they didn't like you for whatever reason, they were always willing to use those cards to kill you.  It's basic theocratic structure is what eventually became the Catholic Church, and when the emperor was eventually a Christian, boom, whole thing became a theocratic state.  It's just that they mostly didn't bother people, especially in the outlying territories, because they valued the general stability that brought in the taxes.

Meh. It still falls short of a theocracy. Yes, they had an official religion, but it was neither strictly enforced or codified into law. Other religions were accepted and even, in certain ways encouraged.

Admittedly, that changed a lot with the rise of Christianity, but that's Christianity, not Rome.


Also, my original point in responding was OP sounded like a "Jews killed Jesus" type.


actually I think OP was saying it was the law that killed Jesus as the discussion was headed about Christians thinking that creating laws to enforce morals work.
 
2014-02-14 09:13:52 PM  

ckccfa: The Emperor was considered a god, and cults were dedicated to his worship?


And refusing to worship the Emperor was something that got Jews, and later Christians, into a fair bit of trouble.

//The pre-Christian pagan matriarchy where everyone was nice is a myth.
 
2014-02-14 09:29:42 PM  

Waldo Pepper:

And he would still be incorrect, because "morality laws" are not what got Jesus killed either.


flondrix: And refusing to worship openly rebelling against the Emperor was something that got Jews, and later Christians, into a fair bit of trouble.

//The pre-Christian pagan matriarchy where everyone was nice is a myth. belief held by no one.


FTFY
 
2014-02-14 10:30:23 PM  

grumpfuff: Waldo Pepper:

And he would still be incorrect, because "morality laws" are not what got Jesus killed either.


flondrix: And refusing to worship openly rebelling against the Emperor was something that got Jews, and later Christians, into a fair bit of trouble.

//The pre-Christian pagan matriarchy where everyone was nice is a myth. belief held by no one.

FTFY


I didn't say morality laws got Christ killed. I said laws.
 
2014-02-14 10:34:23 PM  

Waldo Pepper: grumpfuff: Waldo Pepper:

And he would still be incorrect, because "morality laws" are not what got Jesus killed either.


flondrix: And refusing to worship openly rebelling against the Emperor was something that got Jews, and later Christians, into a fair bit of trouble.

//The pre-Christian pagan matriarchy where everyone was nice is a myth. belief held by no one.

FTFY

I didn't say morality laws got Christ killed. I said laws.


And if you look carefully, you'll see I was responding to soporific, who was responding to you.

Though I probably did confuse things by calling him OP. Probably should have said "the person I was responding to"
 
2014-02-14 10:50:37 PM  

grumpfuff: Waldo Pepper: grumpfuff: Waldo Pepper:

And he would still be incorrect, because "morality laws" are not what got Jesus killed either.


flondrix: And refusing to worship openly rebelling against the Emperor was something that got Jews, and later Christians, into a fair bit of trouble.

//The pre-Christian pagan matriarchy where everyone was nice is a myth. belief held by no one.

FTFY

I didn't say morality laws got Christ killed. I said laws.

And if you look carefully, you'll see I was responding to soporific, who was responding to you.

Though I probably did confuse things by calling him OP. Probably should have said "the person I was responding to"


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