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    More: Repeat, Virginia, opponents of same-sex marriage, Theodore B. Olson, United States federal courts, Attorney General of Virginia, federal courts, government interest, U.S. Supreme Court  
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15127 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Feb 2014 at 6:37 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-02-14 10:39:48 AM  
It took me a couple takes but I did finally get the headline.


Nice one Subby :)
 
2014-02-14 10:41:45 AM  

SmackLT: caira: So, where are we tipping for last domino? Mississippi? Alabama? I'm thinking one of the Dakotas will make a dark horse run . . .

If I had to guess, I'd say Kansas


I said Utah, and I think that's going to be the case which the USSC will use to set the precedent.

I didn't realize the DoJ would try to restart Prop 8, now with fanatical opposition, to get the legal standing to have a decision made.
 
2014-02-14 10:43:26 AM  

BitwiseShift: [img.fark.net image 320x240]Public Call Box: What a man possibly mohel-ing for gold would look like.

Gold? I thought it was 40 skins a week, and a chance to get a head.


That very first mohel-er must have been one wickedly devious homosexual pedophile. He managed to convince people that cutting the foreskin off and have him suck the blood out with his mouth is a perfectly right and righteous thing to do.

/Guess he never figured out how to add ass-rape into the whole ceremony.
//Shoulda ask David Koresh.
 
2014-02-14 10:50:27 AM  

Mikey1969: flondrix: Gig103: Thank you! And yes it is pretty awesome how fast states are figuring it out now.

Only a few states so far.  Several judges have found the bans unconstitutional, and the states continue to try to find ways around those decisions.  Same sex couples can no longer get married in Utah, for example, after a brief window of opportunity opened by a single judge's decision.

Utah hasn't "found a way" around anything. They are appealing the judge's decision, and while it is being reviewed, there is a temporary stay on new marriages. This is standard, not some sneaky move around the system, it's how things work. Utah laid all of their money on the "what about the children?' horse, though, and that guy just doesn't have the legs to finish out the race, but this stay isn't because anyone is "finding a way" around anything, it's exactly how the legal process works.


My point is, the state of Utah didn't come around, a single judge did.  Same in Virginia.
 
2014-02-14 10:58:18 AM  

Waldo Pepper: I'm a Christian and one thing i've always tried to remember as a Christian is that Judas was a zealot. The commission a Christian is called is to lead people to Christ, not to be their morals judge and jury.


I like to remind my fellow Christians, when they talk about wanting to "legislate God's law," is that legislated morality killed Jesus. The people who ordered Jesus' death did so because He violated their theocratic laws. Oh, and those people were also the religious conservatives of their day.
 
2014-02-14 11:06:32 AM  

elchip: When did the REPEAT tag first show up?


Not sure, but my money is on a story involving Rand Paul.
 
2014-02-14 11:08:55 AM  

flondrix: Mikey1969: flondrix: Gig103: Thank you! And yes it is pretty awesome how fast states are figuring it out now.

Only a few states so far.  Several judges have found the bans unconstitutional, and the states continue to try to find ways around those decisions.  Same sex couples can no longer get married in Utah, for example, after a brief window of opportunity opened by a single judge's decision.

Utah hasn't "found a way" around anything. They are appealing the judge's decision, and while it is being reviewed, there is a temporary stay on new marriages. This is standard, not some sneaky move around the system, it's how things work. Utah laid all of their money on the "what about the children?' horse, though, and that guy just doesn't have the legs to finish out the race, but this stay isn't because anyone is "finding a way" around anything, it's exactly how the legal process works.

My point is, the state of Utah didn't come around, a single judge did.  Same in Virginia.


 And...  So?
 
2014-02-14 11:09:07 AM  

hubiestubert: Carousel Beast: Gig103: phlegmmo: Dominoes.

abb3w: www.zen142533.zen.co.uk


Thank you! And yes it is pretty awesome how fast states are figuring it out now.

States aren't figuring it out now, courts are imposing it on them. Let's not pretend rational people are suddenly the voting majority.

I think what's worth noting, though, is that unlike a lot of the civil rights court decisions, we're not seeing people go apeshiat violent on gays. That, imo, is something positive to take out of all this.

/Not to mention that the institution of marriage hasn't somehow fallen apart
//Dumbest argument ever in the first place

No, the argument about it being a violation of religious freedom is the dumbest.

Your church doesn't want same sex marriages, so NO church or those who don't have a faith HAVE to follow these myopic interpretations of Leviticus. While demanding bacon, the right to reap ALL your fields, and hold property into perpetuity. It is awful selective reading, but folks are trying to force that selective reading on everyone. Because, FREEDOM Jeebus!


Really? Fark, I somehow missed out on hearing that one. That's pants on head retarded.
 
2014-02-14 11:10:19 AM  

OtherLittleGuy: SmackLT: caira: So, where are we tipping for last domino? Mississippi? Alabama? I'm thinking one of the Dakotas will make a dark horse run . . .

If I had to guess, I'd say Kansas

I said Utah, and I think that's going to be the case which the USSC will use to set the precedent.

I didn't realize the DoJ would try to restart Prop 8, now with fanatical opposition, to get the legal standing to have a decision made.


Utah will be far from the last... Once they gambled on the "You need two children to properly raise a kid" approach, they sealed their own fate. The Utah appeal is doomed now, and at least that means it won't be the last state to wake up...
 
2014-02-14 11:20:53 AM  

duke3522: GardenWeasel: Ed_Severson: Bendal: Most of them are whining that NC voters should have the right to decide such things in their own state, not realizing that was the same argument used to keep blacks from voting, or desegregating the schools, or allowing women to vote, etc, etc.

We are having the same argument here in Indiana. I gotta say, fark that shiat. I don't get it.

1. The public are morons.

And more importantly ...

2. Government is supposed to protect its citizens, not bow to majority opinion. Democracy is mob rule. It doesn't matter if 75% of the citizens want it; if it's wrong, government is supposed to stop it.

Funny, but one small overstep by the last legistature may have killed the whole thing. It's glorious.

I believe that some of the non-batshiat crazy GOPers are glad the amendment is gone foe two reasons.  First there was a very good chance Indiana voters would have defeated the anti gay marriage amendment..  Remember, Indiana went Obama in 2008.  Second, an anti gay marriage amendment on the ballot would bring out a lot of progressives to vote in an off year election, and Indiana Republicans hate it when progressives vote.


Indiana progressives are hard to get going in off year elections. However, if they somehow manage to pass it this year and in 2016, it will be on the presidential year ballot. Giggity.
 
2014-02-14 11:23:06 AM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: On Wednesday, a judge declared that Kentucky must recognize same-sex marriages performed in other states

Moneyquote:

"Usually, as here, the tradition behind the challenged law began at a time when most people did not fully appreciate, much less articulate, the individual rights in question. For years, many states had a tradition of segregation and even articulated reasons why it created a better, more stable society. Similarly, many states deprived women of their equal rights under the law, believing this to properly preserve our traditions. In time, even the most strident supporters of these views understood that they could not enforce their particular moral views to the detriment of another's constitutional rights. Here as well, sometime in the not too distant future, the same understanding will come to pass." Link


I'm saving that. It gets tiring being one of the few conservatives saying that you [general 'you'] shouldn't  get to legislate your own morality to the detriment of others. That sums it up much better than I've been able to do previously.
 
2014-02-14 11:28:51 AM  
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2014-02-14 11:49:15 AM  
Brian Brown, President of the National Organization for Marriage, called the ruling "another example of an Obama-appointed judge twisting the constitution and the rule of law to impose her own views of marriage in defiance of the people of Virginia."

From Wiki: The United States Senate confirmed Wright Allen on May 11, 2011 in a 96-0 vote. She received her judicial commission the following day.
 
2014-02-14 11:56:01 AM  

Stinkyy: [media.chick.com image 458x235]

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I'm convinced.
 
2014-02-14 12:02:12 PM  

Stinkyy: [media.chick.com image 458x235]

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No fear tactics there.....
 
2014-02-14 12:02:41 PM  

Stinkyy: [media.chick.com image 458x235]

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That "does the bible really say that God blesses homosexuals"  panel was a great opportunity for them to go ahead and say that God blesses everyone, even if he doesn't approve of their particular lifestyle choices.

But nope, I guess that particular part the bible hasn't been translated into comic book format yet.
 
2014-02-14 12:05:29 PM  

ursomniac: My point is, the state of Utah didn't come around, a single judge did. Same in Virginia.

And... So?


Expect to see situations like...the courts say that the state can't deny marriage licenses to same sex couples, but none of the offices that issue marriage licenses will give them to same sex couples.  Any rogue clerk who lets a same sex couple slip through loses his/her job.

Remember, it took National Guard troops to integrate the schools.  I expect some of the states to resist same sex marriage to the same degree.
 
2014-02-14 12:08:02 PM  
Carousel Beast:

/Not to mention that the institution of marriage hasn't somehow fallen apart
//Dumbest argument ever in the first place


Well, no more so than the 50% divorce rate that we had before legalization.
 
2014-02-14 12:17:26 PM  

SmackLT: Brilliant headline, subby. Pretty sure we'll be seeing this one again at the end of the year


Well, no, it'll look more like this:

________________________________________///||
 
2014-02-14 01:06:29 PM  

lordluzr: Stinkyy: [media.chick.com image 458x235]

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I'm convinced.


that's so sad.....i bet if i looked hard enough on some people's FB pages i could find that right now
 
2014-02-14 01:15:11 PM  

DO NOT WANT Poster Girl: flondrix: Zagloba: You know, a decent fraction of teh gheys don't have wangs in the first place.

I can remember when "gay" (in that sense) was used mostly as an adjective, and could be prefixed to the nouns "men" or "women" with equal ease.  In other words, "gay" was a synonym for "homosexual".  But nowadays, I am told, "gay women" is an oxymoron.  Who gets to decide this stuff, anyway?

Some women don't like being "labeled" as "lesbian" because of all the assumptions that word carries, so prefer to be called "gay".

Yes, I know a few women like that. They're otherwise quite relaxed about things.


What assumption, besides homosexuality, does that word carry?  That she's Lebanese?
 
2014-02-14 01:31:16 PM  

flondrix: Bendal: Most of them are whining that NC voters should have the right to decide such things in their own state, not realizing that was the same argument used to keep blacks from voting, or desegregating the schools, or allowing women to vote, etc, etc.

Oh, they realize it.  They think the states should get to decide those things, too.


That's why..... RON PAUL!

//9 out of 10 restaurant-owning bigots agree
 
2014-02-14 01:48:17 PM  

phlegmmo: Gig103: I don't get the headline.

Dominoes.


Isn't it backwards, then?

/or is my left-to-right bias showing?
 
2014-02-14 01:53:35 PM  

eagles95: that's so sad.....i bet if i looked hard enough on some people's FB pages i could find that right now


The saddest bit is that buggery wasn't even remotely why Sodom was destroyed:

Ezekiel 16:49 - Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.

Sort of explains why the red states keep getting hit with tornadoes, drought, and floods, doesn't it?
 
2014-02-14 01:56:58 PM  

Crapinoleum: DO NOT WANT Poster Girl: flondrix: Zagloba: You know, a decent fraction of teh gheys don't have wangs in the first place.

I can remember when "gay" (in that sense) was used mostly as an adjective, and could be prefixed to the nouns "men" or "women" with equal ease.  In other words, "gay" was a synonym for "homosexual".  But nowadays, I am told, "gay women" is an oxymoron.  Who gets to decide this stuff, anyway?

Some women don't like being "labeled" as "lesbian" because of all the assumptions that word carries, so prefer to be called "gay".

Yes, I know a few women like that. They're otherwise quite relaxed about things.

What assumption, besides homosexuality, does that word carry?  That she's Lebanese?


That she's Greek?
 
2014-02-14 02:05:56 PM  

Crapinoleum: DO NOT WANT Poster Girl: flondrix: Zagloba: You know, a decent fraction of teh gheys don't have wangs in the first place.

I can remember when "gay" (in that sense) was used mostly as an adjective, and could be prefixed to the nouns "men" or "women" with equal ease.  In other words, "gay" was a synonym for "homosexual".  But nowadays, I am told, "gay women" is an oxymoron.  Who gets to decide this stuff, anyway?

Some women don't like being "labeled" as "lesbian" because of all the assumptions that word carries, so prefer to be called "gay".

Yes, I know a few women like that. They're otherwise quite relaxed about things.

What assumption, besides homosexuality, does that word carry?  That she's Lebanese?


pics.blameitonthevoices.com
 
2014-02-14 02:50:26 PM  

wambu: phlegmmo: Gig103: I don't get the headline.

Dominoes.

Isn't it backwards, then?

/or is my left-to-right bias showing?


That's the first thing I thought when I looked at it.  But if the chain is started from the left, it is correct then.
I can't believe I typed that.
 
2014-02-14 03:06:56 PM  

Stinkyy: [media.chick.com image 458x235]


Do you really need to spam this into every single thread related to gay people? If it were only a single image, it would be one thing, but the wall of derp is getting farking annoying scrolling past for the dozenth or so time now...
 
2014-02-14 03:12:42 PM  

Carousel Beast: Crapinoleum: DO NOT WANT Poster Girl: flondrix: Zagloba: You know, a decent fraction of teh gheys don't have wangs in the first place.

I can remember when "gay" (in that sense) was used mostly as an adjective, and could be prefixed to the nouns "men" or "women" with equal ease.  In other words, "gay" was a synonym for "homosexual".  But nowadays, I am told, "gay women" is an oxymoron.  Who gets to decide this stuff, anyway?

Some women don't like being "labeled" as "lesbian" because of all the assumptions that word carries, so prefer to be called "gay".

Yes, I know a few women like that. They're otherwise quite relaxed about things.

What assumption, besides homosexuality, does that word carry?  That she's Lebanese?

[pics.blameitonthevoices.com image 555x409]


One of my favorite comics of all time!
 
2014-02-14 03:15:18 PM  

flondrix: Zagloba: You know, a decent fraction of teh gheys don't have wangs in the first place.

I can remember when "gay" (in that sense) was used mostly as an adjective, and could be prefixed to the nouns "men" or "women" with equal ease.  In other words, "gay" was a synonym for "homosexual".  But nowadays, I am told, "gay women" is an oxymoron.  Who gets to decide this stuff, anyway?


I have also heard about this, and I also don't get it.  I am a super-mega-ultra lesbian, but I pretty much use lesbian and gay interchangeably, and I really tend to use "gay" more than anything else because I still think of it as gender-neutral and it's also shorter.

I also tend to call things "gay" in a super-hip-ironic way to be funny, but as with most of my incredible, witty humor, my wife never laughs at the joke.
 
2014-02-14 03:16:18 PM  

serial_crusher: The dominoes are just the beginning of an elaborate Rube Goldberg machine that's going to eventually legalize pedophilia and bestiality.  Brings a whole new meaning to the term "mouse trap".


Oh god, if that's the case, then what does "honey pot" really mean?
 
2014-02-14 03:20:13 PM  

soporific: Waldo Pepper: I'm a Christian and one thing i've always tried to remember as a Christian is that Judas was a zealot. The commission a Christian is called is to lead people to Christ, not to be their morals judge and jury.

I like to remind my fellow Christians, when they talk about wanting to "legislate God's law," is that legislated morality killed Jesus. The people who ordered Jesus' death did so because He violated their theocratic laws. Oh, and those people were also the religious conservatives of their day.


lolwut
 
2014-02-14 03:37:11 PM  

phlegmmo: Gig103: I don't get the headline.

Dominoes.


50 dominoes, specifically.  Also 16 are completely fallen, representing the 16 states where gay marriage is currently legal (Illinois has legalized it but the law does not go in to effect until June 1 of this year).

+10, subby.
 
2014-02-14 04:38:58 PM  

ckccfa: I am a super-mega-ultra lesbian,


Cool!  What are you powers?  Do you have your own comic book yet?

I really tend to use "gay" more than anything else because I still think of it as gender-neutral and it's also shorter

The acronym LGBTTQQIIAA keeps growing.  Any possibly consolidation should be encouraged.
 
2014-02-14 04:43:41 PM  

wambu: Isn't it backwards, then?

/or is my left-to-right bias showing?


The toppling is progressing from left to right.  Typing it out that way would be pretty natural for anyone who learned to write in a European language.
 
2014-02-14 04:46:01 PM  

Itstoearly: phlegmmo: Gig103: I don't get the headline.

Dominoes.

50 dominoes, specifically.  Also 16 are completely fallen, representing the 16 states where gay marriage is currently legal (Illinois has legalized it but the law does not go in to effect until June 1 of this year).

+10, subby.


Indeed, kudos to subby.  I tip my hat.
 
2014-02-14 04:51:06 PM  

Itstoearly: 50 dominoes, specifically. Also 16 are completely fallen, representing the 16 states where gay marriage is currently legal (Illinois has legalized it but the law does not go in to effect until June 1 of this year).

+10, subby.


OK, help me out here...

MA, CA, VT, IA, WA, MN, NY,  and I assume IL is being counted; who else?

The three tilted ones would be UT, OK, and VA, right?
 
2014-02-14 04:51:34 PM  

flondrix: ckccfa: I am a super-mega-ultra lesbian,

Cool!  What are you powers?  Do you have your own comic book yet?



My powers include "bringing women to multiple orgasms," "cats," and "sensible shoes."  Some powers are better than others.

Actually, my real super power is being able to flirt with/check out just about any woman without that woman getting upset with me.  I think, since I'm another woman, they're not threatened by me.  They think I'm just complimenting their shirt--"that is such a great color/cut on you"--while I'm really just staring at their tits.
 
2014-02-14 04:54:43 PM  

flondrix: Itstoearly: 50 dominoes, specifically. Also 16 are completely fallen, representing the 16 states where gay marriage is currently legal (Illinois has legalized it but the law does not go in to effect until June 1 of this year).

+10, subby.

OK, help me out here...

MA, CA, VT, IA, WA, MN, NY,  and I assume IL is being counted; who else?

The three tilted ones would be UT, OK, and VA, right?


From here:
Seventeen states - CA, CT, DE, HI, IA, IL, ME, MD, MA, MN, NH, NJ, NM, NY, RI, VT, and WA - plus Washington, D.C. have the freedom to marry for same-sex couples.

Three states offer broad protections short of marriage. CO allows civil union, while OR and NV offer broad domestic partnership. WI has more limited domestic partnership.

Federal judges have recently struck down gay marriage bans in three other states: UT, OK, and VA--all those rulings are stayed pending appeal.
 
2014-02-14 05:28:22 PM  

Crapinoleum: DO NOT WANT Poster Girl: flondrix: Zagloba: ...

Some women don't like being "labeled" as "lesbian" because of all the assumptions that word carries, so prefer to be called "gay".

Yes, I know a few women like that. They're otherwise quite relaxed about things.

What assumption, besides homosexuality, does that word carry?  That she's Lebanese?


Here in Australia we recently had a stupid little controversy when a lady working in a government office emailed out a list of words to which Aussies commonly add the suffix 'o'. (It's true that we do this. My name's Dave so I cop 'Davo' about once a week. I'm about to head down the bottle-o to pick up some vino. It's just a dumb national pastime.)

Here's the link to the news article (SFW unless your desk is next to a leso, in which case they apparently go batshiat crazy?).  http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-02-05/public-service-head-sorry-for-o f fensive-email/5239140

So yeah, turns out 'lesbian' is an objectionable word to some gay chicks. No one wants to tell us why though.

/Couldn't be that they just love overreacting and getting offended by stuff, could it?
 
2014-02-14 05:32:34 PM  

tommyl66: Endive Wombat: Until someone (a conservative) can make a logical argument against gay marriage, that does not rely on Jesus, The Bible, etc. I have to stick with loving the idea of equality for all in this country.

Personally, as well as I can "see the other side" of an argument pretty damn well, in this case, I cannot fathom a single argument that makes any logical sense to keep marriage defined as being between one man and one woman.

If two women get married and start a new life together, who is going to kill the spiders in the house?


Dear God in HEAVEN... if that isn't  THE most bigoted and sexist comment...

Are you dim?  Everyone knows that you can't have a lesbian couple without cats.  The cats kill the spiders.
 
2014-02-14 05:56:58 PM  

flondrix: wambu: Isn't it backwards, then?

/or is my left-to-right bias showing?

The toppling is progressing from left to right.  Typing it out that way would be pretty natural for anyone who learned to write in a European language.


OK. I'm more sober now, so it makes more sense.
 
2014-02-14 06:48:55 PM  

flondrix: ckccfa: I am a super-mega-ultra lesbian,

Cool!  What are you powers?  Do you have your own comic book yet?

I really tend to use "gay" more than anything else because I still think of it as gender-neutral and it's also shorter

The acronym LGBTTQQIIAA keeps growing.  Any possibly consolidation should be encouraged.


I generally just call it "the queer community."
 
2014-02-14 07:40:02 PM  

grumpfuff: soporific: Waldo Pepper: I'm a Christian and one thing i've always tried to remember as a Christian is that Judas was a zealot. The commission a Christian is called is to lead people to Christ, not to be their morals judge and jury.

I like to remind my fellow Christians, when they talk about wanting to "legislate God's law," is that legislated morality killed Jesus. The people who ordered Jesus' death did so because He violated their theocratic laws. Oh, and those people were also the religious conservatives of their day.

lolwut


Yeah, that's pretty much how they react.
 
2014-02-14 07:48:45 PM  

soporific: grumpfuff: soporific: Waldo Pepper: I'm a Christian and one thing i've always tried to remember as a Christian is that Judas was a zealot. The commission a Christian is called is to lead people to Christ, not to be their morals judge and jury.

I like to remind my fellow Christians, when they talk about wanting to "legislate God's law," is that legislated morality killed Jesus. The people who ordered Jesus' death did so because He violated their theocratic laws. Oh, and those people were also the religious conservatives of their day.

lolwut

Yeah, that's pretty much how they react.


I'd be curious to read your paper that argues Rome was a theocracy.

/Protip: Crucifixion was a Roman punishment, not a Jewish one
 
2014-02-14 08:24:16 PM  

grumpfuff: soporific: grumpfuff: soporific: Waldo Pepper: I'm a Christian and one thing i've always tried to remember as a Christian is that Judas was a zealot. The commission a Christian is called is to lead people to Christ, not to be their morals judge and jury.

I like to remind my fellow Christians, when they talk about wanting to "legislate God's law," is that legislated morality killed Jesus. The people who ordered Jesus' death did so because He violated their theocratic laws. Oh, and those people were also the religious conservatives of their day.

lolwut

Yeah, that's pretty much how they react.

I'd be curious to read your paper that argues Rome was a theocracy.

/Protip: Crucifixion was a Roman punishment, not a Jewish one


The Emperor was considered a god, and cults were dedicated to his worship?
 
2014-02-14 08:38:48 PM  

ckccfa: grumpfuff: soporific: grumpfuff: soporific: Waldo Pepper: I'm a Christian and one thing i've always tried to remember as a Christian is that Judas was a zealot. The commission a Christian is called is to lead people to Christ, not to be their morals judge and jury.

I like to remind my fellow Christians, when they talk about wanting to "legislate God's law," is that legislated morality killed Jesus. The people who ordered Jesus' death did so because He violated their theocratic laws. Oh, and those people were also the religious conservatives of their day.

lolwut

Yeah, that's pretty much how they react.

I'd be curious to read your paper that argues Rome was a theocracy.

/Protip: Crucifixion was a Roman punishment, not a Jewish one

The Emperor was considered a god, and cults were dedicated to his worship?


And as long as you paid your taxes and didn't raise no rabble, they didn't much give two shiats what you did.
 
2014-02-14 08:46:32 PM  

grumpfuff: ckccfa: grumpfuff: soporific: grumpfuff: soporific: Waldo Pepper: I'm a Christian and one thing i've always tried to remember as a Christian is that Judas was a zealot. The commission a Christian is called is to lead people to Christ, not to be their morals judge and jury.

I like to remind my fellow Christians, when they talk about wanting to "legislate God's law," is that legislated morality killed Jesus. The people who ordered Jesus' death did so because He violated their theocratic laws. Oh, and those people were also the religious conservatives of their day.

lolwut

Yeah, that's pretty much how they react.

I'd be curious to read your paper that argues Rome was a theocracy.

/Protip: Crucifixion was a Roman punishment, not a Jewish one

The Emperor was considered a god, and cults were dedicated to his worship?

And as long as you paid your taxes and didn't raise no rabble, they didn't much give two shiats what you did.


It's true, but Rome was still a nation with it's ruler also installed as a god with his own state religion, and if they didn't like you for whatever reason, they were always willing to use those cards to kill you.  It's basic theocratic structure is what eventually became the Catholic Church, and when the emperor was eventually a Christian, boom, whole thing became a theocratic state.  It's just that they mostly didn't bother people, especially in the outlying territories, because they valued the general stability that brought in the taxes.
 
2014-02-14 08:54:54 PM  

ckccfa: grumpfuff: ckccfa: grumpfuff: soporific: grumpfuff: soporific: Waldo Pepper: I'm a Christian and one thing i've always tried to remember as a Christian is that Judas was a zealot. The commission a Christian is called is to lead people to Christ, not to be their morals judge and jury.

I like to remind my fellow Christians, when they talk about wanting to "legislate God's law," is that legislated morality killed Jesus. The people who ordered Jesus' death did so because He violated their theocratic laws. Oh, and those people were also the religious conservatives of their day.

lolwut

Yeah, that's pretty much how they react.

I'd be curious to read your paper that argues Rome was a theocracy.

/Protip: Crucifixion was a Roman punishment, not a Jewish one

The Emperor was considered a god, and cults were dedicated to his worship?

And as long as you paid your taxes and didn't raise no rabble, they didn't much give two shiats what you did.

It's true, but Rome was still a nation with it's ruler also installed as a god with his own state religion, and if they didn't like you for whatever reason, they were always willing to use those cards to kill you.  It's basic theocratic structure is what eventually became the Catholic Church, and when the emperor was eventually a Christian, boom, whole thing became a theocratic state.  It's just that they mostly didn't bother people, especially in the outlying territories, because they valued the general stability that brought in the taxes.


Meh. It still falls short of a theocracy. Yes, they had an official religion, but it was neither strictly enforced or codified into law. Other religions were accepted and even, in certain ways encouraged.

Admittedly, that changed a lot with the rise of Christianity, but that's Christianity, not Rome.


Also, my original point in responding was OP sounded like a "Jews killed Jesus" type.
 
2014-02-14 09:13:52 PM  

ckccfa: The Emperor was considered a god, and cults were dedicated to his worship?


And refusing to worship the Emperor was something that got Jews, and later Christians, into a fair bit of trouble.

//The pre-Christian pagan matriarchy where everyone was nice is a myth.
 
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