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(OutSports)   Gay football player reveals the sexy, sweaty, slippery, steamy, seductive TRUTH about same-sex showering   (outsports.com) divider line 97
    More: Interesting, Michael Sams, steamy, gay athletes, National Coming Out Day, hair products, truth  
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3208 clicks; posted to Sports » on 13 Feb 2014 at 6:18 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-02-13 07:56:37 PM  

Rapmaster2000: Waldo Pepper:
ask jr high school girls that same question and i bet you get a totally different answer. better question. would you want a 13 year straight middle school boy showering in the same shower with your 13 year daughter  and changing clothes right beside her in the locker room

I wouldn't want my 13 year old daughter getting married, driving a car, drinking alcohol, or moving to her own apartment either.  I think you can see the flaw in your argument.


if you couldn't be gay until you were an adult that may make a tiny bit of sense, if you really stretched it that is
 
2014-02-13 07:56:52 PM  

Huck Chaser: Seriously, what's the worst case scenario here?  I just don't get it.

Oh no!  Another human being might find me attractive!  Help!  Heeeeelp!


Haha. How about, "What if he does something gay to me... and I LIKE it!"
 
2014-02-13 07:57:59 PM  

Radak: EdgeRunner:It's not that I wouldn't look at a hot lesbian showering. It's just that I'd rather see two or more hot lesbians showering together.

So, WNBA locker room?


He said "hot".
 
2014-02-13 07:59:30 PM  

NickelP: Rapmaster2000: Waldo Pepper:
ask jr high school girls that same question and i bet you get a totally different answer. better question. would you want a 13 year straight middle school boy showering in the same shower with your 13 year daughter  and changing clothes right beside her in the locker room

I wouldn't want my 13 year old daughter getting married, driving a car, drinking alcohol, or moving to her own apartment either.  I think you can see the flaw in your argument.

if you couldn't be gay until you were an adult that may make a tiny bit of sense, if you really stretched it that is


Interesting fact:  you can do all of those things when you're not an adult.

But seriously, the dude dropped a pathetic analogy.  Adults can't be expected to behave themselves because what if my 13 year old daughter got railed in school.  It's just awful.
 
2014-02-13 08:02:26 PM  

Waldo Pepper: Rapmaster2000: Waldo Pepper:
ask jr high school girls that same question and i bet you get a totally different answer. better question. would you want a 13 year straight middle school boy showering in the same shower with your 13 year daughter  and changing clothes right beside her in the locker room

I wouldn't want my 13 year old daughter getting married, driving a car, drinking alcohol, or moving to her own apartment either.  I think you can see the flaw in your argument.

i've looked and i've yet to see the flaw in my argument, well unless your daughter is "the stinky girl" and never showers. that might cause a flaw in part of my argument but i'm guess she still would have to dress out for PE.


It doesn't surprise me one bit that you have seen no flaws in your false analogy.  In addition, I imagine that your biases are confirmed on a pretty regular basis.
 
2014-02-13 08:06:05 PM  

Waldo Pepper: One of the problems with these situations is the lgbt community gets on the defense thinking they everyone feels they have zero control over their desires. their defense is that they have total control over their desires and never ever would look at someone in a locker room/shower or any of the other situations.


I agree. It can confuse the real issue. Clearly its a bonus. Clearly 99.999% can control themselves. Its just disingenuous to deny the fact because its so clearly true. Like I have told many many clients: sometimes you have to admit to being a thief to get away with murder.
 
2014-02-13 08:06:20 PM  

Rapmaster2000: NickelP: Rapmaster2000: Waldo Pepper:
ask jr high school girls that same question and i bet you get a totally different answer. better question. would you want a 13 year straight middle school boy showering in the same shower with your 13 year daughter  and changing clothes right beside her in the locker room

I wouldn't want my 13 year old daughter getting married, driving a car, drinking alcohol, or moving to her own apartment either.  I think you can see the flaw in your argument.

if you couldn't be gay until you were an adult that may make a tiny bit of sense, if you really stretched it that is

Interesting fact:  you can do all of those things when you're not an adult.

But seriously, the dude dropped a pathetic analogy.  Adults can't be expected to behave themselves because what if my 13 year old daughter got railed in school.  It's just awful.


a 13 year old can't legally do any of those. well maybe marry in some states if she gets knocked up iirc. i think most of us would find making being gay illegal until you are an adult pretty farked up.....

the discussion we were having was about as being homosexual becomes more acceptable, how ones privacy and modesty will be handled. it seems we have the option of folks just generally being less offended if someone checks them out, or changing the way we handle these things all together by increasing privacy in a more unisex way. while I'd also expect an adult to handle their hormones better than a 13 year old, to pretend they will somehow turn off their desires is laughable. also the comparison he was making is that your 13 year old daughter getting in a situation with a boy or a lesbian girl are similar when you put them in nakey situations with folks who are attracted to them. that has nothing to do with adults.
 
2014-02-13 08:08:04 PM  

Waldo Pepper: Rapmaster2000: Waldo Pepper: Rapmaster2000: Waldo Pepper:
ask jr high school girls that same question and i bet you get a totally different answer. better question. would you want a 13 year straight middle school boy showering in the same shower with your 13 year daughter  and changing clothes right beside her in the locker room

I wouldn't want my 13 year old daughter getting married, driving a car, drinking alcohol, or moving to her own apartment either.  I think you can see the flaw in your argument.

i've looked and i've yet to see the flaw in my argument, well unless your daughter is "the stinky girl" and never showers. that might cause a flaw in part of my argument but i'm guess she still would have to dress out for PE.

It doesn't surprise me one bit that you have seen no flaws in your false analogy.  In addition, I imagine that your biases are confirmed on a pretty regular basis.

please explain and keep in mind it is in response to this:
A Jr. High Student is gonna be horny if you put him in a shower alone, it doesn't really matter with whom you put those raging little balls of hormones, they're just gonna be horny no matter what. That said, I don't recall, in Jr. High, anyone giving a fark what my orientation was, because oddly enough even Jr. highschoolers aren't quite the dickbags many adults are.


I really can't.  If you were responding to that with that analogy then I have no idea what you were trying to say.

Just pack it in.  It didn't work... at all.  You ad hominem about "my stinky girl" kind of drove the point home.  You've already hit the two fallacy mark.  Care to pile on a third?
 
2014-02-13 08:09:56 PM  
We had gang showers in my college dorms for Christsake. I had a guy on my floor named big gay joe and he was a furry horny manimal that went on to be a drag queen. We'd chat it up all the time in the shower and he'd frequently tell me how nice my ass was or that I needed to work my shoulders more at the gym. Never once was I uncomfortable or did he make any sort of physical advance. He knew I was straight, and I knew he was gay...he introduced himself by the aforementioned name to make that abundantly clear.
 
2014-02-13 08:10:17 PM  

Rapmaster2000: Waldo Pepper: Rapmaster2000: Waldo Pepper: Rapmaster2000: Waldo Pepper:
ask jr high school girls that same question and i bet you get a totally different answer. better question. would you want a 13 year straight middle school boy showering in the same shower with your 13 year daughter  and changing clothes right beside her in the locker room

I wouldn't want my 13 year old daughter getting married, driving a car, drinking alcohol, or moving to her own apartment either.  I think you can see the flaw in your argument.

i've looked and i've yet to see the flaw in my argument, well unless your daughter is "the stinky girl" and never showers. that might cause a flaw in part of my argument but i'm guess she still would have to dress out for PE.

It doesn't surprise me one bit that you have seen no flaws in your false analogy.  In addition, I imagine that your biases are confirmed on a pretty regular basis.

please explain and keep in mind it is in response to this:
A Jr. High Student is gonna be horny if you put him in a shower alone, it doesn't really matter with whom you put those raging little balls of hormones, they're just gonna be horny no matter what. That said, I don't recall, in Jr. High, anyone giving a fark what my orientation was, because oddly enough even Jr. highschoolers aren't quite the dickbags many adults are.

I really can't.  If you were responding to that with that analogy then I have no idea what you were trying to say.

Just pack it in.  It didn't work... at all.  You ad hominem about "my stinky girl" kind of drove the point home.  You've already hit the two fallacy mark.  Care to pile on a third?


yeah making a joke about the a girl who doesn't shower getting stinky clearly invalidates all else he has said. you are exactly what we are talking about. grow the fark up and join the discussion or stfu because you are hurting your own cause.
 
2014-02-13 08:13:51 PM  

NickelP: Rapmaster2000: Waldo Pepper: Rapmaster2000: Waldo Pepper: Rapmaster2000: Waldo Pepper:
ask jr high school girls that same question and i bet you get a totally different answer. better question. would you want a 13 year straight middle school boy showering in the same shower with your 13 year daughter  and changing clothes right beside her in the locker room

I wouldn't want my 13 year old daughter getting married, driving a car, drinking alcohol, or moving to her own apartment either.  I think you can see the flaw in your argument.

i've looked and i've yet to see the flaw in my argument, well unless your daughter is "the stinky girl" and never showers. that might cause a flaw in part of my argument but i'm guess she still would have to dress out for PE.

It doesn't surprise me one bit that you have seen no flaws in your false analogy.  In addition, I imagine that your biases are confirmed on a pretty regular basis.

please explain and keep in mind it is in response to this:
A Jr. High Student is gonna be horny if you put him in a shower alone, it doesn't really matter with whom you put those raging little balls of hormones, they're just gonna be horny no matter what. That said, I don't recall, in Jr. High, anyone giving a fark what my orientation was, because oddly enough even Jr. highschoolers aren't quite the dickbags many adults are.

I really can't.  If you were responding to that with that analogy then I have no idea what you were trying to say.

Just pack it in.  It didn't work... at all.  You ad hominem about "my stinky girl" kind of drove the point home.  You've already hit the two fallacy mark.  Care to pile on a third?

yeah making a joke about the a girl who doesn't shower getting stinky clearly invalidates all else he has said. you are exactly what we are talking about. grow the fark up and join the discussion or stfu because you are hurting your own cause.


Yes.  I am exactly what you are talking about.  I'm a guy who mocks aging ninnies who make lousy arguments because they are afraid the homos want to bone them.
 
2014-02-13 08:15:56 PM  

Mongo No.5: We had gang showers in my college dorms for Christsake. I had a guy on my floor named big gay joe and he was a furry horny manimal that went on to be a drag queen. We'd chat it up all the time in the shower and he'd frequently tell me how nice my ass was or that I needed to work my shoulders more at the gym. Never once was I uncomfortable or did he make any sort of physical advance. He knew I was straight, and I knew he was gay...he introduced himself by the aforementioned name to make that abundantly clear.


i had a couple gay suitemates in college too. like every 16 people shared a shower room/bathroom. I'm sure we all saw each other naked about a bajillion times. I don't disagree with your point at all in all honesty. I just think we are in the minority on that and most folks don't like being nakey around folks who may be checking them out who they aren't attracted to. thats clearly visible in how we seperate males and females, which the original question is how is this different. I really wouldn't give a shiat either if a bunch of chicks I thought were fugly shared a shower with me. If I shared a shower with a bunch of girls I would expect them not to be happy with that situation though.
 
2014-02-13 08:16:03 PM  

Rapmaster2000: NickelP: Rapmaster2000: Waldo Pepper: Rapmaster2000: Waldo Pepper: Rapmaster2000: Waldo Pepper:
ask jr high school girls that same question and i bet you get a totally different answer. better question. would you want a 13 year straight middle school boy showering in the same shower with your 13 year daughter  and changing clothes right beside her in the locker room

I wouldn't want my 13 year old daughter getting married, driving a car, drinking alcohol, or moving to her own apartment either.  I think you can see the flaw in your argument.

i've looked and i've yet to see the flaw in my argument, well unless your daughter is "the stinky girl" and never showers. that might cause a flaw in part of my argument but i'm guess she still would have to dress out for PE.

It doesn't surprise me one bit that you have seen no flaws in your false analogy.  In addition, I imagine that your biases are confirmed on a pretty regular basis.

please explain and keep in mind it is in response to this:
A Jr. High Student is gonna be horny if you put him in a shower alone, it doesn't really matter with whom you put those raging little balls of hormones, they're just gonna be horny no matter what. That said, I don't recall, in Jr. High, anyone giving a fark what my orientation was, because oddly enough even Jr. highschoolers aren't quite the dickbags many adults are.

I really can't.  If you were responding to that with that analogy then I have no idea what you were trying to say.

Just pack it in.  It didn't work... at all.  You ad hominem about "my stinky girl" kind of drove the point home.  You've already hit the two fallacy mark.  Care to pile on a third?

yeah making a joke about the a girl who doesn't shower getting stinky clearly invalidates all else he has said. you are exactly what we are talking about. grow the fark up and join the discussion or stfu because you are hurting your own cause.

Yes.  I am exactly what you are talking about.  I'm a guy who mocks aging ninnies who make lousy arguments because they are afraid the homos want to bone them.


[Ericestradaasponcherelliyouareahomo!.jpg]
 
2014-02-13 08:18:23 PM  

Waldo Pepper: Por que tan serioso: Waldo Pepper: One of the problems with these situations is the lgbt community gets on the defense thinking they everyone feels they have zero control over their desires. their defense is that they have total control over their desires and never ever would look at someone in a locker room/shower or any of the other situations.

I agree. It can confuse the real issue. Clearly its a bonus. Clearly 99.999% can control themselves. Its just disingenuous to deny the fact because its so clearly true. Like I have told many many clients: sometimes you have to admit to being a thief to get away with murder.

I'm not sure it is a question of control and more a question of individual comfort.. i'm guessing most folks wouldn't be comfortable in co-ed locker rooms/restroom/showers. Now I'm sure a big part of that is the culture we grew up with/in and difference in parts (if you will).  Heck at my age and being overweight i'd be lucky if anyone found attractive and i would question their taste if they did lol.


Right. Im saying the wenis lookers can control themselves. The real and only issue is whether the meat gazee is comfortable with it. Some are not. Valid feeling.
 
2014-02-13 08:33:49 PM  

Waldo Pepper: Por que tan serioso: Waldo Pepper: Por que tan serioso: Waldo Pepper: One of the problems with these situations is the lgbt community gets on the defense thinking they everyone feels they have zero control over their desires. their defense is that they have total control over their desires and never ever would look at someone in a locker room/shower or any of the other situations.

I agree. It can confuse the real issue. Clearly its a bonus. Clearly 99.999% can control themselves. Its just disingenuous to deny the fact because its so clearly true. Like I have told many many clients: sometimes you have to admit to being a thief to get away with murder.

I'm not sure it is a question of control and more a question of individual comfort.. i'm guessing most folks wouldn't be comfortable in co-ed locker rooms/restroom/showers. Now I'm sure a big part of that is the culture we grew up with/in and difference in parts (if you will).  Heck at my age and being overweight i'd be lucky if anyone found attractive and i would question their taste if they did lol.

Right. Im saying the wenis lookers can control themselves. The real and only issue is whether the meat gazee is comfortable with it. Some are not. Valid feeling.

but is it right to expect the "meat gazee" to have to get comfortable with it?  If a woman is allowed to file a complaint about a man "gazing" at her as it makes her uncomfortable. Do we expect her to keep her mouth shut if the gazer is a lesbian? If not, do we expect men to accept being gazed at?


You know...that is the question. When do equal rights become an infringement on others rights? Maybe, in this situation, the league could afford 52 separate dressing rooms with showers. The other scenarios talked about up thread are not so easily solved.
 
2014-02-13 08:34:16 PM  
I'm super modest in the locker room, but if I had to choose between having a lesbian in there with me (I'm a woman), or a straight guy, I'd definitely take the lesbian. (Insert Beavis and Butthead-esque commentary here). It's way less intimidating to face someone who has all the same parts as you and that you are not sexually interested in. Sure, maybe I wouldn't be sexually interested in some big, sloppy dude either (and, to be fair, he may not care for me), but there's a psychological barrier there. Not to mention, you can't ignore that straight men's historical dominance over women plays an role there in the sense of feeling violated.

/Straight, but would rather sneak a peek at a nice rack than some dude's limp wang.
//+1 for the female form
 
2014-02-13 08:35:38 PM  

NickelP: Rapmaster2000: NickelP: Rapmaster2000: Waldo Pepper:
ask jr high school girls that same question and i bet you get a totally different answer. better question. would you want a 13 year straight middle school boy showering in the same shower with your 13 year daughter  and changing clothes right beside her in the locker room

I wouldn't want my 13 year old daughter getting married, driving a car, drinking alcohol, or moving to her own apartment either.  I think you can see the flaw in your argument.

if you couldn't be gay until you were an adult that may make a tiny bit of sense, if you really stretched it that is

Interesting fact:  you can do all of those things when you're not an adult.

But seriously, the dude dropped a pathetic analogy.  Adults can't be expected to behave themselves because what if my 13 year old daughter got railed in school.  It's just awful.

a 13 year old can't legally do any of those. well maybe marry in some states if she gets knocked up iirc. i think most of us would find making being gay illegal until you are an adult pretty farked up.....

the discussion we were having was about as being homosexual becomes more acceptable, how ones privacy and modesty will be handled. it seems we have the option of folks just generally being less offended if someone checks them out, or changing the way we handle these things all together by increasing privacy in a more unisex way. while I'd also expect an adult to handle their hormones better than a 13 year old, to pretend they will somehow turn off their desires is laughable. also the comparison he was making is that your 13 year old daughter getting in a situation with a boy or a lesbian girl are similar when you put them in nakey situations with folks who are attracted to them. that has nothing to do with adults.


Let's be blunt, this is about sexual insecurity, not modesty. If anyone misbehaves, by all means, throw the book at them... but all this talk of rape prevention, sex in showers, it's all bullshiat... that stuff doesn't happen with adults, or in the case of minors, it doesn't happen with good adult supervision. I don't honestly know whether straight guys are more worried that a gay guy will want them, or that they won't... but the reality is that that is the problem of the person having overly-sensitive feelings. So I'd say to these purported heterosexuals to get over their damned namby-pamby feelings, or go home to shower, but stop pushing their squishy-feelings-problems on everyone else.
 
2014-02-13 08:39:29 PM  

Waldo Pepper: Por que tan serioso: Waldo Pepper: Por que tan serioso: Waldo Pepper: One of the problems with these situations is the lgbt community gets on the defense thinking they everyone feels they have zero control over their desires. their defense is that they have total control over their desires and never ever would look at someone in a locker room/shower or any of the other situations.

I agree. It can confuse the real issue. Clearly its a bonus. Clearly 99.999% can control themselves. Its just disingenuous to deny the fact because its so clearly true. Like I have told many many clients: sometimes you have to admit to being a thief to get away with murder.

I'm not sure it is a question of control and more a question of individual comfort.. i'm guessing most folks wouldn't be comfortable in co-ed locker rooms/restroom/showers. Now I'm sure a big part of that is the culture we grew up with/in and difference in parts (if you will).  Heck at my age and being overweight i'd be lucky if anyone found attractive and i would question their taste if they did lol.

Right. Im saying the wenis lookers can control themselves. The real and only issue is whether the meat gazee is comfortable with it. Some are not. Valid feeling.

but is it right to expect the "meat gazee" to have to get comfortable with it?  If a woman is allowed to file a complaint about a man "gazing" at her as it makes her uncomfortable. Do we expect her to keep her mouth shut if the gazer is a lesbian? If not, do we expect men to accept being gazed at?


Do I honestly think straight guys never look at another dudes junk, even if only for comparison?
 
2014-02-13 08:40:05 PM  

Waldo Pepper: Rapmaster2000: Waldo Pepper: Rapmaster2000: Waldo Pepper: Rapmaster2000: Waldo Pepper:
ask jr high school girls that same question and i bet you get a totally different answer. better question. would you want a 13 year straight middle school boy showering in the same shower with your 13 year daughter  and changing clothes right beside her in the locker room

I wouldn't want my 13 year old daughter getting married, driving a car, drinking alcohol, or moving to her own apartment either.  I think you can see the flaw in your argument.

i've looked and i've yet to see the flaw in my argument, well unless your daughter is "the stinky girl" and never showers. that might cause a flaw in part of my argument but i'm guess she still would have to dress out for PE.

It doesn't surprise me one bit that you have seen no flaws in your false analogy.  In addition, I imagine that your biases are confirmed on a pretty regular basis.

please explain and keep in mind it is in response to this:
A Jr. High Student is gonna be horny if you put him in a shower alone, it doesn't really matter with whom you put those raging little balls of hormones, they're just gonna be horny no matter what. That said, I don't recall, in Jr. High, anyone giving a fark what my orientation was, because oddly enough even Jr. highschoolers aren't quite the dickbags many adults are.

I really can't.  If you were responding to that with that analogy then I have no idea what you were trying to say.

Just pack it in.  It didn't work... at all.  You ad hominem about "my stinky girl" kind of drove the point home.  You've already hit the two fallacy mark.  Care to pile on a third?

awe are you feeling hurt. so far you have add little to nothing to this discussion. so my third will be to not respond to you weak attempt to troll me.


It's always a troll when you're losing.  That's the third.

But on the subject of losing, you are correct in thinking that there's a culture war of radical liberals shoving homos down your throat, and as I think you know, you're losing this war.
 
2014-02-13 08:46:03 PM  

firefly212: NickelP: Rapmaster2000: NickelP: Rapmaster2000: Waldo Pepper:
ask jr high school girls that same question and i bet you get a totally different answer. better question. would you want a 13 year straight middle school boy showering in the same shower with your 13 year daughter  and changing clothes right beside her in the locker room

I wouldn't want my 13 year old daughter getting married, driving a car, drinking alcohol, or moving to her own apartment either.  I think you can see the flaw in your argument.

if you couldn't be gay until you were an adult that may make a tiny bit of sense, if you really stretched it that is

Interesting fact:  you can do all of those things when you're not an adult.

But seriously, the dude dropped a pathetic analogy.  Adults can't be expected to behave themselves because what if my 13 year old daughter got railed in school.  It's just awful.

a 13 year old can't legally do any of those. well maybe marry in some states if she gets knocked up iirc. i think most of us would find making being gay illegal until you are an adult pretty farked up.....

the discussion we were having was about as being homosexual becomes more acceptable, how ones privacy and modesty will be handled. it seems we have the option of folks just generally being less offended if someone checks them out, or changing the way we handle these things all together by increasing privacy in a more unisex way. while I'd also expect an adult to handle their hormones better than a 13 year old, to pretend they will somehow turn off their desires is laughable. also the comparison he was making is that your 13 year old daughter getting in a situation with a boy or a lesbian girl are similar when you put them in nakey situations with folks who are attracted to them. that has nothing to do with adults.

Let's be blunt, this is about sexual insecurity, not modesty. If anyone misbehaves, by all means, throw the book at them... but all this talk of rape prevention, sex in showers, it's all bullshiat... that stuff doesn't happen with adults, or in the case of minors, it doesn't happen with good adult supervision. I don't honestly know whether straight guys are more worried that a gay guy will want them, or that they won't... but the reality is that that is the problem of the person having overly-sensitive feelings. So I'd say to these purported heterosexuals to get over their damned namby-pamby feelings, or go home to shower, but stop pushing their squishy-feelings-problems on everyone else.


This. If I were secretly in love/lust with a guy at work, and let's say he's gay so I know I have no chance with him, and I was forced to change/shower around him...well, I sure as he'll wouldn't be leering at him. That's a farking creepy, horrible thing to do, and as an adult with self-control, it wouldn't be an issue.

Besides, a lot of this comes down to trust. Once teammates got to know, like and respect each other, this wouldn't be an issue at all. Sam's teammates at Missouri clearly had no problem with it.
 
2014-02-13 08:46:54 PM  

Waldo Pepper: in all seriousness why is a straight man not wanting to shower in the same shower room as a gay man any different than a straight woman not wanting to shower in the same shower as a straight man?

I don't mean this in some stupid homophobic reasoning but a true a person's comfort area.  I think we have hit upon areas that might cause some concern.


A gay guy can't get another guy pregnant.
 
2014-02-13 08:48:28 PM  

trappedspirit: Waldo Pepper: in all seriousness why is a straight man not wanting to shower in the same shower room as a gay man any different than a straight woman not wanting to shower in the same shower as a straight man?

I don't mean this in some stupid homophobic reasoning but a true a person's comfort area.  I think we have hit upon areas that might cause some concern.

A gay guy can't get another guy pregnant.


But he's very concerned.  He'shiat upon areas of concern.
 
2014-02-13 09:01:07 PM  
firefly21:Let's be blunt, this is about sexual insecurity, not modesty.

If a straight guy installs a two-way mirror in his apartment's shared bathroom to spy on his lesbian neighbors, but he's only watching to see if they're doing their fair share of cleaning and swears he isn't the least bit turned on by the sight of their naked bodies, should they be cool with that?

And could I get a quick answer? I've got some.. uh... DYI to do at my place.
 
2014-02-13 09:02:01 PM  
The TRUTH is that we DON'T CARE IF YOU ARE GAY OR NOT!! STOP TELLING US!!!
 
2014-02-13 09:02:48 PM  

trappedspirit: Have you ever talked to an openly gay athlete? Played a game with one? Please, for your own sake, find a gay athlete and have a conversation with them.

[i141.photobucket.com image 331x364]


*looks at user name*

*looks at pic*

:D
 
2014-02-13 09:13:08 PM  

Rapmaster2000: trappedspirit: Waldo Pepper: in all seriousness why is a straight man not wanting to shower in the same shower room as a gay man any different than a straight woman not wanting to shower in the same shower as a straight man?

I don't mean this in some stupid homophobic reasoning but a true a person's comfort area.  I think we have hit upon areas that might cause some concern.

A gay guy can't get another guy pregnant.

But he's very concerned.  He'shiat upon areas of concern.


Damn right he did. All over them.
 
2014-02-13 09:13:52 PM  

firefly212: NickelP: Rapmaster2000: NickelP: Rapmaster2000: Waldo Pepper:
ask jr high school girls that same question and i bet you get a totally different answer. better question. would you want a 13 year straight middle school boy showering in the same shower with your 13 year daughter  and changing clothes right beside her in the locker room

I wouldn't want my 13 year old daughter getting married, driving a car, drinking alcohol, or moving to her own apartment either.  I think you can see the flaw in your argument.

if you couldn't be gay until you were an adult that may make a tiny bit of sense, if you really stretched it that is

Interesting fact:  you can do all of those things when you're not an adult.

But seriously, the dude dropped a pathetic analogy.  Adults can't be expected to behave themselves because what if my 13 year old daughter got railed in school.  It's just awful.

a 13 year old can't legally do any of those. well maybe marry in some states if she gets knocked up iirc. i think most of us would find making being gay illegal until you are an adult pretty farked up.....

the discussion we were having was about as being homosexual becomes more acceptable, how ones privacy and modesty will be handled. it seems we have the option of folks just generally being less offended if someone checks them out, or changing the way we handle these things all together by increasing privacy in a more unisex way. while I'd also expect an adult to handle their hormones better than a 13 year old, to pretend they will somehow turn off their desires is laughable. also the comparison he was making is that your 13 year old daughter getting in a situation with a boy or a lesbian girl are similar when you put them in nakey situations with folks who are attracted to them. that has nothing to do with adults.

Let's be blunt, this is about sexual insecurity, not modesty. If anyone misbehaves, by all means, throw the book at them... but all this talk of rape prevention, sex in showers, it's all bullshiat... that stuff doesn't happen with adults, or in the case of minors, it doesn't happen with good adult supervision. I don't honestly know whether straight guys are more worried that a gay guy will want them, or that they won't... but the reality is that that is the problem of the person having overly-sensitive feelings. So I'd say to these purported heterosexuals to get over their damned namby-pamby feelings, or go home to shower, but stop pushing their squishy-feelings-problems on everyone else.


agreed. as a society though we are all about sexual insecurity. its the same reasons people get pissed about women breast feeding in public and companies are starting to have rooms for this sole purpose. people do have overly sensitive feelings but we sure as shiat have seem to enable that as a society. I'm not saying its correct, just that its not likelly gays are going to get a complete pass on this.
 
2014-02-13 09:22:35 PM  

Waldo Pepper: trappedspirit: Waldo Pepper: in all seriousness why is a straight man not wanting to shower in the same shower room as a gay man any different than a straight woman not wanting to shower in the same shower as a straight man?

I don't mean this in some stupid homophobic reasoning but a true a person's comfort area.  I think we have hit upon areas that might cause some concern.

A gay guy can't get another guy pregnant.

and that has nothing to do with this discussion.


and that's why they can shower together because there's no chance of a baby walking out of the showers because of them.
 
2014-02-13 09:35:12 PM  
Waldo Pepper:

Would you rather these concerns go stay silent and so never addressed and at some point in time something happens that causes lgbt rights to suffer a setback or address them and find the best solution that works for the everyone rights.

This could be bad... for gays.
 
2014-02-13 09:46:07 PM  

Waldo Pepper: Rapmaster2000: Waldo Pepper: Rapmaster2000: Waldo Pepper: Rapmaster2000: Waldo Pepper: Rapmaster2000: Waldo Pepper:
ask jr high school girls that same question and i bet you get a totally different answer. better question. would you want a 13 year straight middle school boy showering in the same shower with your 13 year daughter  and changing clothes right beside her in the locker room

I wouldn't want my 13 year old daughter getting married, driving a car, drinking alcohol, or moving to her own apartment either.  I think you can see the flaw in your argument.

i've looked and i've yet to see the flaw in my argument, well unless your daughter is "the stinky girl" and never showers. that might cause a flaw in part of my argument but i'm guess she still would have to dress out for PE.

It doesn't surprise me one bit that you have seen no flaws in your false analogy.  In addition, I imagine that your biases are confirmed on a pretty regular basis.

please explain and keep in mind it is in response to this:
A Jr. High Student is gonna be horny if you put him in a shower alone, it doesn't really matter with whom you put those raging little balls of hormones, they're just gonna be horny no matter what. That said, I don't recall, in Jr. High, anyone giving a fark what my orientation was, because oddly enough even Jr. highschoolers aren't quite the dickbags many adults are.

I really can't.  If you were responding to that with that analogy then I have no idea what you were trying to say.

Just pack it in.  It didn't work... at all.  You ad hominem about "my stinky girl" kind of drove the point home.  You've already hit the two fallacy mark.  Care to pile on a third?

awe are you feeling hurt. so far you have add little to nothing to this discussion. so my third will be to not respond to you weak attempt to troll me.

It's always a troll when you're losing.  That's the third.

But on the subject of losing, you are correct in thinking that there's a culture war of radical lib ...


They aren't real concerns... this is just as retarded as people who were "concerned" over blacks playing baseball or interracial marriage... your f'd up insecurity is not a social problem, it's a you problem.
 
2014-02-13 09:46:57 PM  
I'm "concerned" about all these openly religious people in the locker room, I feel like they're constantly judging me... can we get them a separate locker room?
 
2014-02-13 09:53:19 PM  
The shower scenario is simple math.  You have a bunch of guys in a shower and what are the chances of anyone one being gay.  Pretty low, right?  So, this gay guy then gets aroused by another dude he sees.  What are the odds that that dude will also be gay?  Pretty low, right?  Now, what are the odds of both of them being gay and there not being anyone else there willing to start beating on any two guys trying to get it on in the showers.  Even lower.

But you let boys and girls shower together and they'll be making plans to make a baby and no one is much going to try and stop them.  So then you start paying someone like me to watch all the showering and make sure this doesn't happen.  Sounds bad, right?  So you just find the right, self-policing situation that is going to cause the least headache, not require hiring me to watch people shower, and keeps the babies to a minimum.

It's not mysterious or needs discussion it's freakonomics.
 
2014-02-13 09:59:23 PM  

Descartes: I figure it's no more likely for a gay man to look at a hot straight man showering, than it is for a straight man to look at a hot lesbian woman showering.


Particularly since it is something he has done all his life. The whole mystery/naughty/taboo angle is entirely gone.
 
2014-02-13 10:00:03 PM  

Rapmaster2000: Waldo Pepper:

Would you rather these concerns go stay silent and so never addressed and at some point in time something happens that causes lgbt rights to suffer a setback or address them and find the best solution that works for the everyone rights.

This could be bad... for gays.


YES!! I WOULD!! There are NO RIGHTS!! Other than the rights for EVERYONE! Why does ever minority or gay or ANYONE need MORE RIGHTS than ANYONE ELSE!?!?!

Answer...they don't.
 
2014-02-13 10:03:23 PM  
an inverse way of looking at this illustrating somewhat of a double standard is letting a gay man shower with women because he isn't attracted to them. i think people would have a problem with that too and it seems similar to the belief you can shower with the same sex only as long as they don't have an attraction to you. dunno folks got all kinds of weird 'omg someone may see a private' issues in this country. I still think we will see people get more private as this becomes a common issue. there is a chance folks will just chill the fark out but I wouldn't bet on it.
 
2014-02-13 10:16:56 PM  

Gestankfaust: The TRUTH is that we DON'T CARE IF YOU ARE GAY OR NOT!! STOP TELLING US!!!


I don't care that you're farking straight, yet still you keep putting pictures up to show people that not only are you straight, you've found someone to mate with... FFS, you even wear a special ring to advertise it.

Also, if mutability is the defining feature, stop telling me about your f'n religion.
 
2014-02-13 10:27:08 PM  

trappedspirit: The shower scenario is simple math.  You have a bunch of guys in a shower and what are the chances of anyone one being gay.  Pretty low, right?  So, this gay guy then gets aroused by another dude he sees.  What are the odds that that dude will also be gay?  Pretty low, right?  Now, what are the odds of both of them being gay and there not being anyone else there willing to start beating on any two guys trying to get it on in the showers.  Even lower.

But you let boys and girls shower together and they'll be making plans to make a baby and no one is much going to try and stop them.  So then you start paying someone like me to watch all the showering and make sure this doesn't happen.  Sounds bad, right?  So you just find the right, self-policing situation that is going to cause the least headache, not require hiring me to watch people shower, and keeps the babies to a minimum.

It's not mysterious or needs discussion it's freakonomics.


i141.photobucket.com
 
2014-02-13 10:27:48 PM  

firefly212: I'm "concerned" about all these openly religious people in the locker room, I feel like they're constantly judging me... can we get them a separate locker room?


*tips fedora*
 
2014-02-13 10:36:19 PM  

Waldo Pepper: NickelP: Waldo Pepper: in all seriousness why is a straight man not wanting to shower in the same shower room as a gay man any different than a straight woman not wanting to shower in the same shower as a straight man?

I don't mean this in some stupid homophobic reasoning but a true a person's comfort area.  I think we have hit upon areas that might cause some concern.

id like to hear a good answer to this too. I don't have one. I just view it similar to a situation like if a hs/college or whatever didn't have a women's locker room so they just don't let them play sports. I can see how it could be an issue, but the issue isn't that gay folks want to be treated fairly and equally, its that those hs's/colleges/whatever aren't designed to provide privacy.

it provides an interesting question of why even have mens/women seperation as this gets more common though. I bet we see more unisex areas that just provide good privacy in the future. or people just get over the fact that someone who thinks you are attractive checking you out isn't the end of the world. I think we are a bit behind the rest of the world in that regard.

the problem when these questions are asked and ladodger34 mentioned it. the question gets attacked as homophobic and in truth i'm guess there are times that is true. but not so much now days. Forget pro sports as I agree no reason they can't build lockers rooms/showers with privacy.

but other areas

Should a doctor/nurse be required to inform a sex gender patient that he/she is gay/lesbian before examining them.  male doctors generally get a female nurse to be in the room while examining a female patient, what about gay doctors and male patients, should the male patient have a right to know if his doctor is gay?   I've had female nurses/doctors ask if I wanted a male nurse/doc in the room when they had to do an exam.   

I used to travel a little for work and to save money we had to share rooms, do I have the right to ask if the person I'm sharing a room with is gay?

What happens at the middle/high school levels?   As gay/lesbian fits more and more into the mainstream and no longer "frowned upon" just imagine at 13/14 if you are gay/lesbian and you get to be in a locker room full of  naked people you are attracted to.....if it helps imagine at 14 a straight male being allowed in the girls locker room/shower. dude jackpot!

personally i don't care who's in the locker room with me or who i share a room with as long as they aren't a jerk or snore like a freight train


But that isn't the case. This is, boy uses coed showers/changerooms from when he is a little kid, gets to go in coed showers.

You want to remove the sexuality from the situation? Make it a normal thing they grew up with and view as normal.
 
2014-02-13 11:18:57 PM  

Waldo Pepper: dywed88: Waldo Pepper: NickelP: Waldo Pepper: in all seriousness why is a straight man not wanting to shower in the same shower room as a gay man any different than a straight woman not wanting to shower in the same shower as a straight man?

I don't mean this in some stupid homophobic reasoning but a true a person's comfort area.  I think we have hit upon areas that might cause some concern.

id like to hear a good answer to this too. I don't have one. I just view it similar to a situation like if a hs/college or whatever didn't have a women's locker room so they just don't let them play sports. I can see how it could be an issue, but the issue isn't that gay folks want to be treated fairly and equally, its that those hs's/colleges/whatever aren't designed to provide privacy.

it provides an interesting question of why even have mens/women seperation as this gets more common though. I bet we see more unisex areas that just provide good privacy in the future. or people just get over the fact that someone who thinks you are attractive checking you out isn't the end of the world. I think we are a bit behind the rest of the world in that regard.

the problem when these questions are asked and ladodger34 mentioned it. the question gets attacked as homophobic and in truth i'm guess there are times that is true. but not so much now days. Forget pro sports as I agree no reason they can't build lockers rooms/showers with privacy.

but other areas

Should a doctor/nurse be required to inform a sex gender patient that he/she is gay/lesbian before examining them.  male doctors generally get a female nurse to be in the room while examining a female patient, what about gay doctors and male patients, should the male patient have a right to know if his doctor is gay?   I've had female nurses/doctors ask if I wanted a male nurse/doc in the room when they had to do an exam.   

I used to travel a little for work and to save money we had to share rooms, do I have the right to ask if the perso ...

No I also said was this is something that will have to be addressed.  I do find it a bit self serving of the gay/lesbian community to say its okay we don't gawk or lust over anyone in locker rooms/same sex showers. Well duh, the fox guarding the henhouse says the same thing.. Personally in the adult world I doubt it will ever be much of an issue but it would be good to make those areas more private if possible. mainly from a "way too many freaks out there in general" and with cell phones and small cameras might be for the best. 

I honestly think there will be some issues that schools have to address.

what i don't want to see is a jim crow type separate locker rooms or any of that crap.


like anything else I imagine it will be defined by lawsuits and insurance companies, as well as with an abundance of caution. some school will have a same sex sexual assault and an attorney will allege they should have disciplined the gay kid for making sexual comments/advances and they should have known better than to allow him/her to be in a situation with other nakey kids of the same gender. 0 tolerance will kick in and some gay kid will get suspended for hitting on a straight kid and then we will get some discrimination suits that the same wouldn't of happened for a boy just hitting on a girl. in the end the schools will wash their hands of the entire thing by having individual changing rooms and never allowing a student to be half dressed around another student.

the same will happen professionally. like the hotel thing you mentioned. some gay boss will be accused of leering at and hitting on a male subordinate he shared a room with on a conference, someone will get a nice pay out, and all of a sudden sharing rooms will be strictly forbidden.

it reminds me of a gym I use to belong to. you could be a member at I think 12. use all the machines etc. you were not allowed to be in the changing room until you were 16 or so unless you were with a parent. they had family changing rooms you had to use, which were basically like a individual stall like you would see in a department store. they had showers too which closed off. the locker rooms all had attendants and it was a busy place. the likelyhood of a child being abused had to be almost non existant, but its easier to be cautious then deal with the consequences when that 1 in a million event happens. also before someone jumps down my throat i'm not equating pedo stuff with gayness, just saying this shiat that use to be 'ah its same sex its cool' will all go to 'omg how do we make sure we can never get sued'.
 
2014-02-13 11:20:22 PM  
the cell phone thing is going to have a lot to do with that too. I imagine we are already seeing changes in the way these things are designed over that.
 
2014-02-13 11:45:13 PM  

Gestankfaust: Rapmaster2000: Waldo Pepper:

Would you rather these concerns go stay silent and so never addressed and at some point in time something happens that causes lgbt rights to suffer a setback or address them and find the best solution that works for the everyone rights.

This could be bad... for gays.

YES!! I WOULD!! There are NO RIGHTS!! Other than the rights for EVERYONE! Why does ever minority or gay or ANYONE need MORE RIGHTS than ANYONE ELSE!?!?!

Answer...they don't.


It's good then that they're not asking for that.
 
2014-02-14 12:09:26 AM  

fusillade762: Gestankfaust: Rapmaster2000: Waldo Pepper:

Would you rather these concerns go stay silent and so never addressed and at some point in time something happens that causes lgbt rights to suffer a setback or address them and find the best solution that works for the everyone rights.

This could be bad... for gays.

YES!! I WOULD!! There are NO RIGHTS!! Other than the rights for EVERYONE! Why does ever minority or gay or ANYONE need MORE RIGHTS than ANYONE ELSE!?!?!

Answer...they don't.

It's good then that they're not asking for that.


You sound like a special class that needs protecting.
 
2014-02-14 02:30:43 AM  

Waldo Pepper: in all seriousness why is a straight man not wanting to shower in the same shower room as a gay man any different than a straight woman not wanting to shower in the same shower as a straight man?

I don't mean this in some stupid homophobic reasoning but a true a person's comfort area.  I think we have hit upon areas that might cause some concern.


Perhaps it's a power perception thing. We, or the woman, believes she'd be unable to fight off an amorous straight man.
Yet the truth is, it seems to me, a straight man would have a lot better chance of fighting off a gay man than a straight woman would in fighting off a straight man.
 
2014-02-14 02:35:55 AM  
The etiquette in those Euro countries where of-age nudity is accepted in some contexts, such as at a sauna, beach or spa, is simple.  You get one glance, after that you make eye contact or look at something else.  Staring is not OK.  Becoming aroused is not OK.  In effect the modesty lies in how they treat each other.  Rules are similar for an American hetero man around women in bikinis or yoga pants.  There are many contexts in which nudity or a state of partial undress can be non-sexual, if the norm is enforced by the group.

Also, this thread is all glittery with light from the firefly
 
2014-02-14 02:41:39 AM  
By the way, while we're on the topic of naked strangers showering, what's with young men and their timidity in public locker rooms?

It seems like they all -- especially the ones who have carefully toned, bulked and shaped their bodies -- do the towel-wrap before they take off or change shorts, and they dress in the shower stalls.

Did the gay community, and its pernicious gay agenda, force them to adopt this shyness? (Because to hear old grandparents tell it, amateur athletes used to just run around naked all the time ...)

No wonder straight football players are upset.
 
2014-02-14 10:41:38 AM  

Huck And Molly Ziegler: By the way, while we're on the topic of naked strangers showering, what's with young men and their timidity in public locker rooms?

It seems like they all -- especially the ones who have carefully toned, bulked and shaped their bodies -- do the towel-wrap before they take off or change shorts, and they dress in the shower stalls.

Did the gay community, and its pernicious gay agenda, force them to adopt this shyness? (Because to hear old grandparents tell it, amateur athletes used to just run around naked all the time ...)

No wonder straight football players are upset.


They are paranoid that people will think they have small dicks.
 
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