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(Syracuse Post-Standard)   Great Lakes ice coverage set to break the all-time record next week, exactly as predicted by global climate models   (syracuse.com) divider line 260
    More: Cool, Central New York, Great Lakes, Great Lakes ice, physical scientist, Lake Ontario, global climate models, lake effect  
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9567 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Feb 2014 at 3:21 PM (24 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-02-13 08:28:54 PM

Jakesta: If and when that happens, humans will adapt as they have for thousands of years. Why is it that people seem to think that if the environment changes the human species isn't going to survive it? We will as a species. Does it mean that we won't have some hard times? Of course not. And what we are doing today may very well be a cause of that. But the doom and gloom nonsense needs to stop if anyone ever actually wants to change something


People advocating for action to be taken are not stopping action from being taken.

The deniers spreading anti-science and their "do nothing" campaign is stopping action from being taken. Don't project it on us.

Not that I care. I live in Southern Ontario ... well suited to handle the up coming changes. I make enough money that I should be able to handle all the price increases. And I don't have kids.
 
2014-02-13 08:34:09 PM

AngryDragon: Yet China and India's have skyrocketed.  Hate to tell you this but America is working on it.  Good luck getting the BRICs to comply though.  Those are the ones who will bury us.


About that "we don't have to do anything because other people pollute" taking point:

You need new material:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-06-18/china-launches-its-first-carbo n- trading-scheme/4763770

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/19/business/energy-environment/china- in troduces-local-program-for-reducing-emissions.html?_r=0

http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change/china-agrees -t o-impose-carbon-targets-by-2016-8626101.html

Refresh the blog page ... maybe some new talking points are up. Remember, you don't have to understand them. Just repeat them over and over.
 
2014-02-13 08:38:08 PM
Advocating for action is one thing. It's even applaudable. But the end of the world, we're all going to die stuff needs to stop if you want to make more progress. You won't win over deniers that way.
 
2014-02-13 08:42:19 PM

Farking Canuck: AngryDragon: Yet China and India's have skyrocketed.  Hate to tell you this but America is working on it.  Good luck getting the BRICs to comply though.  Those are the ones who will bury us.

About that "we don't have to do anything because other people pollute" taking point:

You need new material:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-06-18/china-launches-its-first-carbo n- trading-scheme/4763770

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/19/business/energy-environment/china- in troduces-local-program-for-reducing-emissions.html?_r=0

http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change/china-agrees -t o-impose-carbon-targets-by-2016-8626101.html

Refresh the blog page ... maybe some new talking points are up. Remember, you don't have to understand them. Just repeat them over and over.


Carbon trading is bullshiat.

I was responding to the comment earlier that the US has cut emissions every year since 2007.  Meanwhile Shanghai's air is so thick you can cut it with a knife.  I wasn't mirroring talking points, I was stating the obvious.
 
2014-02-13 08:42:59 PM

Jakesta: Advocating for action is one thing. It's even applaudable. But the end of the world, we're all going to die stuff needs to stop if you want to make more progress. You won't win over deniers that way.


Can you link to some scientists predicting the end of the world? Because if you are listening to what reporters say about science then I think I've found your problem - they always get it wrong,

FYI - Applaudable isn't a word. Laudable is though.
 
2014-02-13 08:45:02 PM

Jakesta: Advocating for action is one thing. It's even applaudable. But the end of the world, we're all going to die stuff needs to stop if you want to make more progress. You won't win over deniers that way.


Protip: Trying to win over people by equating them to people who don't believe the Holocaust happened doesn't help your cause
 
2014-02-13 08:47:00 PM

yakmans_dad: I wonder if global warming refers to the entire globe or only a portion of one country?


Last week's California drought thread answers that question.
 
2014-02-13 08:49:01 PM

AngryDragon: I wasn't mirroring talking points, I was stating the obvious.


What is obvious is the whole "L-l-l-look at China! Our doing anything can never help so do nothing!!!" is a cornerstone of the denier agenda. Congratz if you came up with it independently of a industry funded blog.

AngryDragon: Carbon trading is bullshiat.


The point is that China is taking action. We will see how effective it is ... but at least they acknowledge the science and evidence and they are trying.
 
2014-02-13 08:54:06 PM

LouDobbsAwaaaay:

gretzkyscores: Someone tell reality to start conforming to the models NOW, dammit!

Or we could just tell you that a single year doesn't equate to a trend that you can compare to model projections.  You idiots chase every data point like you're scoring points in a game against someone, and completely ignore the trend.

1.bp.blogspot.com

 
2014-02-13 09:10:08 PM

John0x: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/videos/category/3play_1/climate-change- 1 01-with-bill-nye-the-science/

You just got Bill Nye'd


Heh. The guy who had Ham for breakfast last week.
 
2014-02-13 09:11:35 PM

Farking Canuck: Jakesta: Advocating for action is one thing. It's even applaudable. But the end of the world, we're all going to die stuff needs to stop if you want to make more progress. You won't win over deniers that way.

Can you link to some scientists predicting the end of the world? Because if you are listening to what reporters say about science then I think I've found your problem - they always get it wrong,

FYI - Applaudable isn't a word. Laudable is though.


Really? Damn. Seems like it should be a word. Oh well.

It's not scientists. It's media and politics that distort the message. But go ahead and keep fighting the wrong fight.
 
2014-02-13 09:13:40 PM

elvindeath: Ontario has less surface, thus the 32% is not going to be weighted evenly.


Ontario is a very deep lake, with the tendency to "turn over". It rarely freezes to a significant degree.

Erie, however, is like the pond on your uncle's farm.
 
2014-02-13 09:19:19 PM

Farking Canuck: AngryDragon: I wasn't mirroring talking points, I was stating the obvious.

What is obvious is the whole "L-l-l-look at China! Our doing anything can never help so do nothing!!!" is a cornerstone of the denier agenda. Congratz if you came up with it independently of a industry funded blog.

AngryDragon: Carbon trading is bullshiat.

The point is that China is taking action. We will see how effective it is ... but at least they acknowledge the science and evidence and they are trying.


Think so? Even Climate Central thinks what China is doing hardly amounts to a lump of coal

www.climatecentral.org
 
2014-02-13 09:21:55 PM

Kraftwerk Orange: sigdiamond2000: It's like putting coffee in tall, narrow mug instead of a short, wide one. The taller cup keeps the coffee warmer.

Can any of Fark's baristas speak specifically to this reckless, incredible claim?

IDK, less surface area to radiate heat?


My bff jill?
 
2014-02-13 09:29:41 PM

Jakesta: So let me get this straight. Artic ice shelves retreat for a few years and that is proof of global warming. The Great Lakes freeze more than they ever have, but that can't be used as an argument against it. I think I got it. Weather patterns in some parts of the world are more important than others.


Correct. Just like ice core samples from Russia illustrate the entire global climate for thousands of years.
 
2014-02-13 09:46:44 PM

Hassan Ben Sobr: Here are the latest totals for each lake, by percentage of surface area covered with ice. The entire Great Lakes average is 87 percent, the most since 1994.
Erie: 96
Superior: 95
Huron: 95
Michigan: 80
Ontario: 32


I get 79.6%, not 87%.


And the year before 1994, we in the northeast had another, even more severe rash of cold weather/snow compared to this year.  It was called the Blizzard of 1993, where it snowed from western NY alllllllll the way down to southern Georgia.  And not just a few inches, it was a couple feet, easy.  I drove to FL to visit friends in it.  From Beckley, VA on down into Georgia, it was single-lane, with the inside lane used for stuck cars and trucks.  People were crammed into the hotel in Beckley to the point we were offered to stay in the weight room for free.  Nope, we kept on driving, and pulled off for a bit down the road and slept.  We were almost through GA before the roads cleared up.  I will never forger all of the cars and tractor-trailers stuck in the road.  It was insane.

Anyway, back in NY, it was temps in the -30 range for a few days.  The power steering fluid in my Bronco II froze over and was leaking out onto the ground.  I didn't know that could happen.
 
2014-02-13 10:20:14 PM

threefeetoffun: Since when is Buffalo in Central New York?


Turn your map 90-degrees.
 
2014-02-13 10:23:21 PM

The Third Man: All I know is, we don't have much snow here in WNY, while everyone else is getting buried.  Also, the ice buildup destroyed one of my favorite hiking trails along the Niagara River, but you can't have everything.


Which trail?
 
2014-02-13 10:23:45 PM

Betep: The world would be so cool if Al Gore was President.


Just got here, but I'll bet someone else seed what you did there.
 
2014-02-13 11:13:33 PM

Surpheon:

What a shock, a confident Internet Expert knows far more than all the folks who study this for a living.
Yeah, he may well know better.   The so-called "experts" have booted every prediction they've made so far.  Not only that, they've booted them in the same direction, and by approximately the same factor, and in over 25 years haven't managed to correct their error.  And, in fact, if the gentleman you are insulting here is being honest, he is ahead of much of the climatology community.  Pretty much the entire "leadership" of the climatology community is selling their "consensus" to politicians, who are buying results favorable to draconian new measures with a 20-fold increase in research money as a Quid-Pro-Quo.

www.climatedialogue.org

 
2014-02-13 11:17:25 PM

Farking Canuck: And I don't have kids.

We have THAT going for us, which is nice.
 
2014-02-13 11:58:23 PM

Jakesta: It's media and politics that distort the message.


Which is exactly why I suggested you not get your science from the media.

Let's be clear here. There are two completely different subjectsin play: the science of AGW and the politics of what to do about it. The deniers like to conflate the two because their position is 100% political and they cannot honestly argue the science.

I don't fight the politics fight as I know all politicians are dumber than science reporters and will never get anything right. But I will argue against the weapons-grade stupidity that is the denier "all climate scientists in the world are dirty liars scamming for juicy grants and the oil exec are the good guys who will steer us safely into the future" propaganda.

The fact is this: The overwhelming majority of publishing climate scientists working in the field believe that AGW is correct and is a serious threat to our way of life. Full stop.

All the arm-chair, brain-dead, green-text, internet "scientists" with their unsupported arguments and blatantly dishonest, repeatedly debunked graphs cannot change this and cannot challenge this. Their politics does not trump science.
 
2014-02-14 12:11:15 AM
GROSS: What's your reaction when you see people debating whether climate change actually exists and whether it's man - whether it has been created by, you know, human activity?

KOLBERT: Well, I guess my reaction is, you know, frustration on the one hand and sadness on the other because it's just evidently clear what's going on. The physics of it - the geophysics of it are abundantly clear. They were already understood, you know, back in the 1850s and in the 1890s you already had the scientist - he was in fact a Nobel Prize winning scientist named Svante Arrhenius made predictions about what was going to happen if we kept, you know, adding CO2 to the atmosphere.

Now, he was off on his predictions in a lot of ways, in fact, because we've added CO2 - in part because we've added CO2 to the atmosphere so much faster than he could even have imagined. So the fact that we're sort of debating what the effects of adding CO2 to the atmosphere are, you know, 150 years after people understood the effects of adding CO2 to the atmosphere is sort of sad.

And what we should be debating, to the extent that we should be debating anything, is what we should do about it. We shouldn't be debating whether this is having an impact because as you see the Arctic ice cap melt away which is, you know, exactly what was predicted by climate models, even if they were somewhat too conservative, you shouldn't really be debating anymore whether climate change is having an effect.


In The World's 'Sixth Extinction,' Are Humans The Asteroid?
 
2014-02-14 12:40:09 AM

Rapmaster2000: HA HA HA.  I for one am glad this fad is almost over.  Up next, blue jeans, rap music, and miniskirts.


I typed the first few words of a rage post before I noticed it was you. Nice job.
 
2014-02-14 12:43:58 AM

blatz514: Pick: Now days, when it's hot out and people are frying eggs on the sidewalk, it's "Global Warming", everybody panic and cut CO2 emissions!!!! Who can we blame for this?

When it's cold out and people are crashing their cars all over the south in ice storms, it's "Climate Change", what are we going to do? Who can we blame for this?

Back in the 1900's it was simply called, "A hot summer" or a "A cold winter". And that was that.

Agrees


Interestingly,

"In 2008, the [Old Farmers'] Almanac stated that the earth had entered a global cooling period that would probably last decades. The journal based its prediction on sunspot cycles. Said contributing meteorologist Joseph D'Aleo, "Studying these and other factor suggests that cold, not warm, climate may be our future.""
 
2014-02-14 12:48:37 AM

unexplained bacon: Dr Jack Badofsky: unexplained bacon: looks like we're getting a heat wave next week, not sure if that's factored in DRTFA

damn it's been a hard winter, I can't recall one so cold and so snowy with so few breaks.

In the Buffalo area, that would be the winter of 2010/2011.  Started December 3rd, and didn't warm up until at least mid-march.  We just didn't have the temps so close to zero (or below like a couple nights ago).  That was some major mandingsnow.

I'm trying to recall, but I think that year brought a lot of snow for us too, but we had thaws in between the storms. Not so much this year. The cold has been straight up brutal too, temps below -10 at night were practically common. It's 36 right now and I swear it feels like shorts weather. The wind doesn't even hurt my face.


I hear you, I think my body has adapted to the cold. I don't feel comfortable even inside anymore in less than 3 layers and if the wind chill is a positive number, it's not even remarkable. 10℉ is okay, now. Indiana is now permanently a barren, frozen tundra and I've come to terms with that.

It will be a shock to the rest of the nation next September when no semi trucks full of corn start spewing out of our borders, though.
 
2014-02-14 12:50:27 AM
 
2014-02-14 12:50:58 AM

Dr Jack Badofsky: unexplained bacon: looks like we're getting a heat wave next week, not sure if that's factored in DRTFA

damn it's been a hard winter, I can't recall one so cold and so snowy with so few breaks.

In the Buffalo area, that would be the winter of 2010/2011.  Started December 3rd, and didn't warm up until at least mid-march.  We just didn't have the temps so close to zero (or below like a couple nights ago).  That was some major mandingsnow.


What is "mandingsnow"?
 
2014-02-14 01:01:07 AM

ZzeusS: rev. dave: If we had devices which could convert CO2 into gold dust, then conservatives would be screaming about there being too much CO2.
So we need to find a selfish motivation directly related to profit and hurting poor people to get them onboard.


Slaves can mine gold, but they don't breathe carbon dioxide.
 
2014-02-14 01:03:12 AM

MBooda: For comparison, here's a report on the lakes from about forty years ago:

Lake Huron rolls, Superior sings In the rooms of her ice-water mansion. Old Michigan steams like a young man's dreams; the islands and bays are for sportsmen. And farther below Lake Ontario takes in what Lake Erie can send her.


You sure that wasn't from around 45 years ago? Like, right before LSD was made illegal?
 
2014-02-14 01:06:41 AM

clovercat: At least we're ready in the south for this weather.


People keep posting this pic as a joke, but I bet you that thing is the shiZnit bombdiggity at plowing, and it fits in the back of a pickup. The dude who owns that probably makes bank plowing people's driveways for 40 bucks a pop every snowfall.
 
2014-02-14 01:11:29 AM

FLMountainMan: I'm a white guy with quite a few black friends.  Ergo, there is no more racism in the world.


Your username does not jive with your claims.
 
2014-02-14 01:13:20 AM

Witty_Retort: Pangea: Lets cut to the chase.

Does this mean that Sarah Palin is finally president?

She can see the Olympics from her house.


I chuckled
 
2014-02-14 01:15:06 AM

Lee451: The AGW crowd reminds me of playing cards when I was in jail. As soon as you caught on to the scam the others were perpetrating, they changed the rules so they can continue scamming. When you make up the rules as you go along you insure winning

/I got some carbon credits I will gladly sell the deluded farkers who still believe


I'll buy them if you accept Coinye West
 
2014-02-14 01:16:28 AM

Witty_Retort: Pangea: Lets cut to the chase.

Does this mean that Sarah Palin is finally president?

She can see the Olympics from her house.


img.fark.net
 
2014-02-14 01:27:43 AM

GeneralJim: Surpheon: What a shock, a confident Internet Expert knows far more than all the folks who study this for a living.Yeah, he may well know better.   The so-called "experts" have booted every prediction they've made so far.  Not only that, they've booted them in the same direction, and by approximately the same factor, and in over 25 years haven't managed to correct their error.  And, in fact, if the gentleman you are insulting here is being honest, he is ahead of much of the climatology community.  Pretty much the entire "leadership" of the climatology community is selling their "consensus" to politicians, who are buying results favorable to draconian new measures with a 20-fold increase in research money as a Quid-Pro-Quo.


There's the green text I've been expecting for 200+ posts!
 
2014-02-14 01:57:41 AM

Farking Canuck: Jakesta: Advocating for action is one thing. It's even applaudable. But the end of the world, we're all going to die stuff needs to stop if you want to make more progress. You won't win over deniers that way.

Can you link to some scientists predicting the end of the world? Because if you are listening to what reporters say about science then I think I've found your problem - they always get it wrong,

FYI - Applaudable isn't a word. Laudable is though.


Ahem: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/applaudable
 
2014-02-14 02:38:51 AM

KyDave: Farking Canuck: Jakesta: Advocating for action is one thing. It's even applaudable. But the end of the world, we're all going to die stuff needs to stop if you want to make more progress. You won't win over deniers that way.

Can you link to some scientists predicting the end of the world? Because if you are listening to what reporters say about science then I think I've found your problem - they always get it wrong,

FYI - Applaudable isn't a word. Laudable is though.

Ahem: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/applaudable


And approbations, accolades and golf claps to you, sir.
 
2014-02-14 02:44:31 AM
Witty_Retort: 

She can see the Olympics from her house.

This is Sarah Palin
img.fark.net


This is not.
img.fark.net


This one said she can see Russia from her house.

img.fark.net


This one did not.
img.fark.net
 
2014-02-14 03:05:05 AM

dbrunker: Witty_Retort: 

She can see the Olympics from her house.

This is Sarah Palin
[img.fark.net image 512x326]


This is not.
[img.fark.net image 640x427]


This one said she can see Russia from her house.

[img.fark.net image 640x427]


This one did not.
[img.fark.net image 512x326]


You mad bro?
 
2014-02-14 04:52:02 AM
I agree, we can't be sure that any of this global warming, climate change, blah blah blah can be proven. Ipso facto, let's pollute more! Do conservatives actually CONSERVE anything anymore?
 
2014-02-14 04:55:03 AM

dbrunker: Witty_Retort:

She can see the Olympics from her house.

This is Sarah Palin
[img.fark.net image 512x326]


This is not.
[img.fark.net image 640x427]


This one said she can see Russia from her house.

[img.fark.net image 640x427]


This one did not.
[img.fark.net image 512x326]


Keep on polishing that turd.

http://blogs.chicagotribune.com/news_columnists_ezorn/2010/04/did-sa ra h-palin-really-say-you-can-see-russia-from-alaska.html
 
2014-02-14 06:08:23 AM
Lakes are so frozen, wolves will be crossing to get the huge deer herds in the US.
 
2014-02-14 07:22:51 AM

dbrunker: Witty_Retort: 

She can see the Olympics from her house.

This is Sarah Palin
[img.fark.net image 512x326]


This is not.
[img.fark.net image 640x427]


This one said she can see Russia from her house.

[img.fark.net image 640x427]


This one did not.
[img.fark.net image 512x326]


True.  But....

Gharlie Gibson: "What insight into Russian actions particularly in the last couple of weeks, does the proximity of this state give you?"
Palin responded: "They're our next door neighbors. And you can actually see Russia from land here in Alaska."

Not much better.
 
2014-02-14 08:22:18 AM

AngryDragon: I'm learning here that climate change proponents have absolutely no sense of humor.

I thought it was funny, subby


Laughter is still allowed, but only mocking laughter directed at ideological opponents. By making all other forms of humor too "insensitive" to tolerate, two goals are accomplished: First, to suppress all undirected humor that stands any chance of causing damage to the Inner Party's reputation for infallibility and the unchallenged authority that derives from it, and second, to provide an outlet that can be channeled by the Inner Party into a powerful ideological weapon, for use in the engineered never-ending war that we call "Peace."

/picture a boot stamping on a human face, forever
 
2014-02-14 10:18:46 AM

Repo Man: Global Warming: What We Knew in 82


So, we really can't plead ignorance.
 
2014-02-14 10:27:10 AM

Farking Canuck: What is obvious is the whole "L-l-l-look at China! Our doing anything can never help so do nothing!!!" is a cornerstone of the denier agenda. Congratz if you came up with it independently of a industry funded blog


So the fact that our emissions are dropping means that we're doing nothing.

Farking Canuck: The point is that China is taking action. We will see how effective it is ... but at least they acknowledge the science and evidence and they are trying


But China is "trying" so that means what again?

Agenda.  I think you have one.
 
2014-02-14 10:32:53 AM

jgilb: Since our planet acts as a zero sum engine, I would fully expect winter to become worse as the planet heats up.


so, as the planet gets warmer, it will get equally colder.  so the warmth will be counterbalanced.  so the net effect will be no change.  got it.  so the problem is what then?
 
2014-02-14 10:35:33 AM

dbrunker: Witty_Retort: 

She can see the Olympics from her house.

This is Sarah Palin
[img.fark.net image 512x326]


This is not.
[img.fark.net image 640x427]


This one said she can see Russia from her house.

[img.fark.net image 640x427]


This one did not.
[img.fark.net image 512x326]


Keep ringing those bells. She still won't sleep with you.
 
2014-02-14 10:46:40 AM

gretzkyscores: Must be why we've been experiencing historic lows


what part of "unpredictable" is incompatible with "historic lows" ?
 
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