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(Network World)   How Apple follows you through a mall closer than any helicopter mom   (networkworld.com) divider line 33
    More: Interesting, helicopter parents, iPhones  
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2511 clicks; posted to Geek » on 13 Feb 2014 at 9:36 AM (8 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



33 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2014-02-13 09:43:03 AM
That's nice.
 
2014-02-13 09:44:54 AM
Ha, jokes on them! My phone's battery dies before I even get inside the mall!
 
2014-02-13 09:58:02 AM
This is terrible! Awful!! The invasion of my privacy must stop!!! Oh wait, iOS? Never mind.

//for the (rooted) android set, get PryFi, from chainfire. No more MAC address tracking - and you get to poison stores' databases, too.
 
2014-02-13 10:37:02 AM

ChubbyTiger: This is terrible! Awful!! The invasion of my privacy must stop!!! Oh wait, iOS? Never mind.

//for the (rooted) android set, get PryFi, from chainfire. No more MAC address tracking - and you get to poison stores' databases, too.


What do you mean by 'poison databases'? Not a compsci kind of person so never heard that term.
 
2014-02-13 10:37:33 AM

ChubbyTiger: This is terrible! Awful!! The invasion of my privacy must stop!!! Oh wait, iOS? Never mind.

//for the (rooted) android set, get PryFi, from chainfire. No more MAC address tracking - and you get to poison stores' databases, too.


Or, you know, just turn bluetooth off. Completely optional function if you don't want to use iBeacons.
 
2014-02-13 10:39:31 AM
Problem: GPS doesn't work inside buildings, making it useless for indoor navigation.
Solution: Low power short range Bluetooth beacons providing fixed navigation points.

Yay! Someone solved a problem! What? It comes from Apple? ZOMG!!!!! PRIVACY!!!!

I don't really see the problem.
 
2014-02-13 10:49:43 AM

kroonermanblack: ChubbyTiger: This is terrible! Awful!! The invasion of my privacy must stop!!! Oh wait, iOS? Never mind.

//for the (rooted) android set, get PryFi, from chainfire. No more MAC address tracking - and you get to poison stores' databases, too.

What do you mean by 'poison databases'? Not a compsci kind of person so never heard that term.


In this case, broadcast many random MAC addresses to fill the store's database with tons of bad data. The more bad data in there, the less useful any of the data is.
 
2014-02-13 11:01:06 AM
It *sounds* like the beacon is a one-way deal, dumping a pre-programmed dataset to the air for your phone to receive, consisting of at least:

-BLE MAC address.
-Location info
-Promotional info (URL, commercial message, etc)

Thing is, the Noric and TI BLE chipsets I'm familiar with are inherently two-way so there's nothing to prevent software on the beacon from logging stuff in addition to sending out a beacon.  And if a company *can* gather data, they most likely *will*.
 
2014-02-13 11:02:47 AM

Chabash: Ha, jokes on them! My phone's battery dies before I even get inside the mall!


Ah - so an android user!

/low hanging fruit
 
2014-02-13 11:06:40 AM

MightyPez: ChubbyTiger: This is terrible! Awful!! The invasion of my privacy must stop!!! Oh wait, iOS? Never mind.

//for the (rooted) android set, get PryFi, from chainfire. No more MAC address tracking - and you get to poison stores' databases, too.

Or, you know, just turn bluetooth off. Completely optional function if you don't want to use iBeacons.


Except that people actually USE BT, it's not like it was just installed to track you.
 
2014-02-13 11:09:34 AM

ChubbyTiger: //for the (rooted) android set, get PryFi, from chainfire. No more MAC address tracking - and you get to poison stores' databases, too.


Well, dang.  Play store says PryFi is not compatible with my phone.  Android 4.1.2, Linux 3.4.0.  I've forgotten what WiFi radio it's got.
 
2014-02-13 11:20:59 AM

GameSprocket: Problem: GPS doesn't work inside buildings, making it useless for indoor navigation.
Solution: Low power short range Bluetooth beacons providing fixed navigation points.

Yay! Someone solved a problem! What? It comes from Apple? ZOMG!!!!! PRIVACY!!!!

I don't really see the problem.


Now when you are inside your movements can be tracked, Apple already has a deal with the government for this and airports.

And this is nothing new, this was done ten years ago before the iphone, but lower power blue tooth was not available then so it was not feasible.  They had shopping centers do it on a trial basis to send you ads and track who had bluetooth on.
 
2014-02-13 11:29:45 AM
Ah, official Pry-Fi only works on Android 4.2 and up.  There's a link for a beta that "supports" 4.0+.
 
2014-02-13 11:39:25 AM
This would be great for finding lost phones.
 
2014-02-13 11:49:51 AM

SansNeural: Ah, official Pry-Fi only works on Android 4.2 and up.  There's a link for a beta that "supports" 4.0+.


What phone do you have?
 
2014-02-13 12:06:00 PM

ChubbyTiger: SansNeural: Ah, official Pry-Fi only works on Android 4.2 and up.  There's a link for a beta that "supports" 4.0+.

What phone do you have?


ZTE N9810

Installed the beta.  Says "Could not detect MAC address!" and closes.
 
2014-02-13 12:10:09 PM

Mikey1969: MightyPez: ChubbyTiger: This is terrible! Awful!! The invasion of my privacy must stop!!! Oh wait, iOS? Never mind.

//for the (rooted) android set, get PryFi, from chainfire. No more MAC address tracking - and you get to poison stores' databases, too.

Or, you know, just turn bluetooth off. Completely optional function if you don't want to use iBeacons.

Except that people actually USE BT, it's not like it was just installed to track you.


If you're in a mall and using bluetooth t means you have an insipid headset in and you're a dildo. Otherwise control center has a quick toggle to enable/disable bluethooth when you don't want to use iBeacon.

More to the point, if you're seriously worried about being tracked by companies or authorities, don't carry around a micro-computer in your pocket that is always connected via wireless data, triangulates your position with wifi and cell towers, and has a GPS built in.
 
2014-02-13 12:15:13 PM
I'm 6'5" with size 14 feet. There's nothing at the farking mall for me, when I go there it's mainly to see what's being peddled this season. Not that anything they're selling will be in my size.
 
2014-02-13 12:38:05 PM

MightyPez: Mikey1969: MightyPez: ChubbyTiger: This is terrible! Awful!! The invasion of my privacy must stop!!! Oh wait, iOS? Never mind.

//for the (rooted) android set, get PryFi, from chainfire. No more MAC address tracking - and you get to poison stores' databases, too.

Or, you know, just turn bluetooth off. Completely optional function if you don't want to use iBeacons.

Except that people actually USE BT, it's not like it was just installed to track you.

If you're in a mall and using bluetooth t means you have an insipid headset in and you're a dildo. Otherwise control center has a quick toggle to enable/disable bluethooth when you don't want to use iBeacon.


Turning BT on and off wherever you go is stupid. As is calling people who use headsets "insipid". People who scream into their headset in public may be insipid, but I have no problem with someone who uses it when they drive. I think it's dumb to have to go through a checklist of things to do when exiting your car so that you can enter the mall.
 
2014-02-13 12:47:30 PM

Mikey1969: MightyPez: Mikey1969: MightyPez: ChubbyTiger: This is terrible! Awful!! The invasion of my privacy must stop!!! Oh wait, iOS? Never mind.

//for the (rooted) android set, get PryFi, from chainfire. No more MAC address tracking - and you get to poison stores' databases, too.

Or, you know, just turn bluetooth off. Completely optional function if you don't want to use iBeacons.

Except that people actually USE BT, it's not like it was just installed to track you.

If you're in a mall and using bluetooth t means you have an insipid headset in and you're a dildo. Otherwise control center has a quick toggle to enable/disable bluethooth when you don't want to use iBeacon.

Turning BT on and off wherever you go is stupid. As is calling people who use headsets "insipid". People who scream into their headset in public may be insipid, but I have no problem with someone who uses it when they drive. I think it's dumb to have to go through a checklist of things to do when exiting your car so that you can enter the mall.


i dunno. I turn bluetooth off when I leave my car to preserve battery. Same reason I turn off wi-fi when not at home/work.
 
2014-02-13 12:53:07 PM

olapbill: Mikey1969: MightyPez: Mikey1969: MightyPez: ChubbyTiger: This is terrible! Awful!! The invasion of my privacy must stop!!! Oh wait, iOS? Never mind.

//for the (rooted) android set, get PryFi, from chainfire. No more MAC address tracking - and you get to poison stores' databases, too.

Or, you know, just turn bluetooth off. Completely optional function if you don't want to use iBeacons.

Except that people actually USE BT, it's not like it was just installed to track you.

If you're in a mall and using bluetooth t means you have an insipid headset in and you're a dildo. Otherwise control center has a quick toggle to enable/disable bluethooth when you don't want to use iBeacon.

Turning BT on and off wherever you go is stupid. As is calling people who use headsets "insipid". People who scream into their headset in public may be insipid, but I have no problem with someone who uses it when they drive. I think it's dumb to have to go through a checklist of things to do when exiting your car so that you can enter the mall.

i dunno. I turn bluetooth off when I leave my car to preserve battery. Same reason I turn off wi-fi when not at home/work.


I forget sometimes. Sometimes it's on all day, and I don't have that horrible of battery drain, that was a big concern a few years ago, but I get a full day now without having to juggle shiat. The best setting for battery is automatic screen brightness, it's a night and day difference, pun intended...
 
2014-02-13 01:00:15 PM

Mikey1969: olapbill: Mikey1969: MightyPez: Mikey1969: MightyPez: ChubbyTiger: This is terrible! Awful!! The invasion of my privacy must stop!!! Oh wait, iOS? Never mind.

//for the (rooted) android set, get PryFi, from chainfire. No more MAC address tracking - and you get to poison stores' databases, too.

Or, you know, just turn bluetooth off. Completely optional function if you don't want to use iBeacons.

Except that people actually USE BT, it's not like it was just installed to track you.

If you're in a mall and using bluetooth t means you have an insipid headset in and you're a dildo. Otherwise control center has a quick toggle to enable/disable bluethooth when you don't want to use iBeacon.

Turning BT on and off wherever you go is stupid. As is calling people who use headsets "insipid". People who scream into their headset in public may be insipid, but I have no problem with someone who uses it when they drive. I think it's dumb to have to go through a checklist of things to do when exiting your car so that you can enter the mall.

i dunno. I turn bluetooth off when I leave my car to preserve battery. Same reason I turn off wi-fi when not at home/work.

I forget sometimes. Sometimes it's on all day, and I don't have that horrible of battery drain, that was a big concern a few years ago, but I get a full day now without having to juggle shiat. The best setting for battery is automatic screen brightness, it's a night and day difference, pun intended...


yep auto brightness is your friend.  My phone gets a lot of heavy usage ( one of those jorbs that requires being in contact) so I try to conserve where possible.  Nothing kills a phone faster than autohunting for wi-fi. Of course i'm slightly biased as I work with wi-fi everyday, but I'm not worrying about my MAC being seen in a mall.
 
2014-02-13 01:24:09 PM

olapbill: yep auto brightness is your friend.  My phone gets a lot of heavy usage ( one of those jorbs that requires being in contact) so I try to conserve where possible.  Nothing kills a phone faster than autohunting for wi-fi. Of course i'm slightly biased as I work with wi-fi everyday, but I'm not worrying about my MAC being seen in a mall.


I use Llama to manage ringer profiles, WiFi profiles, BT profiles, all kinds of cool stuff, so that it turns on and off at certain times and in certain locations. One of the best Android apps I've ever found. Auto brightness is pretty much the first setting I change on a new phone for myself or my family though.
 
2014-02-13 01:29:44 PM

Mikey1969: Turning BT on and off wherever you go is stupid. As is calling people who use headsets "insipid". People who scream into their headset in public may be insipid, but I have no problem with someone who uses it when they drive. I think it's dumb to have to go through a checklist of things to do when exiting your car so that you can enter the mall.


Well if they are using the headsets in a car then they aren't using it at the mall. Dildo status revoked. And if they don't want a radio transmitter tracked, they can turn off the radio transmitter. If they think that's too tough, maybe they shouldn't have one?

This is the dictionary definition of first world problem. "A store will know were I am because they can see my phone!" Well, yeah. They can also see your face and hear your voice with the cameras and microphones they have for security purposes.
 
2014-02-13 01:36:54 PM

MightyPez: Mikey1969: Turning BT on and off wherever you go is stupid. As is calling people who use headsets "insipid". People who scream into their headset in public may be insipid, but I have no problem with someone who uses it when they drive. I think it's dumb to have to go through a checklist of things to do when exiting your car so that you can enter the mall.

Well if they are using the headsets in a car then they aren't using it at the mall. Dildo status revoked. And if they don't want a radio transmitter tracked, they can turn off the radio transmitter. If they think that's too tough, maybe they shouldn't have one?

This is the dictionary definition of first world problem. "A store will know were I am because they can see my phone!" Well, yeah. They can also see your face and hear your voice with the cameras and microphones they have for security purposes.


My point is just because they still have it on their head, it doesn't make them a "dildo". I don't even use a BT headset, but this label just kind of bothers me. Hell, I don't even mind if they use it in public as long as they use it like a normal person, and not like the phone is across the room...

Tracking would bother me if they were tracking unique data on the phone and compiling a database entry on you. A picture is just a picture, but I'm in no hurry to have Minority Report type advertising...
 
2014-02-13 02:11:37 PM

Mikey1969: MightyPez: Mikey1969: Turning BT on and off wherever you go is stupid. As is calling people who use headsets "insipid". People who scream into their headset in public may be insipid, but I have no problem with someone who uses it when they drive. I think it's dumb to have to go through a checklist of things to do when exiting your car so that you can enter the mall.

Well if they are using the headsets in a car then they aren't using it at the mall. Dildo status revoked. And if they don't want a radio transmitter tracked, they can turn off the radio transmitter. If they think that's too tough, maybe they shouldn't have one?

This is the dictionary definition of first world problem. "A store will know were I am because they can see my phone!" Well, yeah. They can also see your face and hear your voice with the cameras and microphones they have for security purposes.

My point is just because they still have it on their head, it doesn't make them a "dildo". I don't even use a BT headset, but this label just kind of bothers me. Hell, I don't even mind if they use it in public as long as they use it like a normal person, and not like the phone is across the room...

Tracking would bother me if they were tracking unique data on the phone and compiling a database entry on you. A picture is just a picture, but I'm in no hurry to have Minority Report type advertising...


And if it at all worked like that, you may have a point.

For iBeacons to reach you you have to have BT turned on and the app for the store in question enabled. No handshake is performed without the relevant app installed and opened.
 
2014-02-13 02:30:02 PM

MightyPez: And if it at all worked like that, you may have a point.

For iBeacons to reach you you have to have BT turned on and the app for the store in question enabled. No handshake is performed without the relevant app installed and opened.


As I said, it would bother me if they were doing it this way, I didn't say that i was freaking out about it or anything, but it's only a matter of time until some shady A-hole starts doing this anyway. The real problem is when they start marketing these "helpful" apps that then get turned into tracking software and spyware before we even know what's happening. Sure, it's hard to remain anonymous in today's world, but that definitely doesn't mean that we should just give up... Unfortunately, tech is outpacing privacy laws.
 
2014-02-13 03:49:04 PM

ChubbyTiger: This is terrible! Awful!! The invasion of my privacy must stop!!! Oh wait, iOS? Never mind.

//for the (rooted) android set, get PryFi, from chainfire. No more MAC address tracking - and you get to poison stores' databases, too.


Sounds fun. Have anything like that for a jailbroken iphone?
 
2014-02-13 07:31:33 PM
So it's basically NFC, but better.
 
2014-02-13 08:56:04 PM

OceanVortex: ChubbyTiger: This is terrible! Awful!! The invasion of my privacy must stop!!! Oh wait, iOS? Never mind.

//for the (rooted) android set, get PryFi, from chainfire. No more MAC address tracking - and you get to poison stores' databases, too.

Sounds fun. Have anything like that for a jailbroken iphone?


Not a clue, but I doubt Apple would allow it in the store.

SansNeural: ZTE N9810


Hmmmm, that's an older one, isn't it?  I'm not nearly good enough to help you there.  Sorry.
 
2014-02-13 09:39:07 PM

SansNeural: It *sounds* like the beacon is a one-way deal, dumping a pre-programmed dataset to the air for your phone to receive, consisting of at least:

-BLE MAC address.
-Location info
-Promotional info (URL, commercial message, etc)

Thing is, the Noric and TI BLE chipsets I'm familiar with are inherently two-way so there's nothing to prevent software on the beacon from logging stuff in addition to sending out a beacon.  And if a company *can* gather data, they most likely *will*.


As described in the article, they don't sound like much more than an easier "better" QR code.
 
2014-02-14 06:23:12 AM

Mikey1969: I use Llama to manage ringer profiles, WiFi profiles, BT profiles, all kinds of cool stuff, so that it turns on and off at certain times and in certain locations. One of the best Android apps I've ever found. Auto brightness is pretty much the first setting I change on a new phone for myself or my family though.


So what you're is, it really whips a battery's ass?

/too obscure?
//long live winamp!
 
2014-02-14 06:24:08 AM

Marmilman: So what you're saying is, it really whips a battery's ass?


ftfm
 
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