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(Stars and Stripes)   Thanks for going to Iraq, Afghanistan 10 times or more. Don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out   (stripes.com) divider line 71
    More: Asinine, U.S. Army, Army Reserve, non-commissioned officers  
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7422 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 Feb 2014 at 11:36 PM (36 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-02-13 02:16:59 AM  
Poor snowflakes.

The military isn't a jobs program.  And it needs MUCH bigger cuts than this.  But at least they're cutting this much.

If we need a government jobs program, let's create one.  How about the Post Office as a good start?  Bring back twice-daily mail delivery and Sunday mail service.  Hire more people to work in the national parks.  Build a national high-speed rail network, with government employees doing all the construction and running the service.

But stop thinking of the military as a jobs program.  It isn't, and using it like that gets us into stupid wars that we have no business involved in.
 
2014-02-13 02:27:54 AM  

DarkVader: But stop thinking of the military as a jobs program.  It isn't, and using it like that gets us into stupid wars that we have no business involved in.


Imagine if the military were used for public works projects when not on deployment....
 
2014-02-13 02:28:05 AM  

DarkVader: Poor snowflakes.

The military isn't a jobs program.  And it needs MUCH bigger cuts than this.  But at least they're cutting this much.

If we need a government jobs program, let's create one.  How about the Post Office as a good start?  Bring back twice-daily mail delivery and Sunday mail service.  Hire more people to work in the national parks.  Build a national high-speed rail network, with government employees doing all the construction and running the service.

But stop thinking of the military as a jobs program.  It isn't, and using it like that gets us into stupid wars that we have no business involved in.


your answer is really More Government?
 
2014-02-13 06:28:26 AM  

TuteTibiImperes: Aren't the homeless vets mainly the ones coming back with undiagnosed (or untreated) PTSD and other mental disorders stemming from their experiences overseas?


Undiagnosed and untreated because the military no longer acknowledges it.  If they acknowledged it, it would cost them money.
 
2014-02-13 06:48:20 AM  

Winston Smith '84: 2wolves: Winston Smith '84: They all feel entitiled to a government GS-15 step 10 position or contractor equivalent.

Citation please.

I'll wait.

30 years working in the same offices and sitting on hiring panels (Army Material Command, US Southern Command, US Atlantic Command, US Joint Forces Command, and lastly Joint Staff) with these entitlement addicts.Talk to these guys when they're within a year of getting out about what they want - I have - its shocking.  Also watched them rewrite civilian position descriptions with specific requirements matched to their resume while they were still on active duty so they could apply for the position immediately upon retirement.  I really can't blame them for grousing about getting caught in a reduction because their retirements benefits are very sweet - sweeter than most people realize.


As much as I don't like your tone, and your sense of bitterness, you are correct in which I have seen those rewrites happen...and it does piss me off since those moves are very political...and they end up not helping the organization that much either.
 
2014-02-13 07:40:55 AM  
So they do run the military like a business.

I've been surprised that so many complaints form my conservative friends follow the flavor of "these folks have served us well, they deserve to keep their jobs." Employment as a reward rather than to do a job? Seems like exactly the thing that is argued against endlessly by business.
 
2014-02-13 08:11:36 AM  

Boojum2k: bearcats1983: Serious question, why do so many vets have an issue finding jobs once they're out of the service? Is this only an enlisted issue or does it affect officers as well?

Officers have a much easier time getting good work. Some of my best bosses in civilian life were retired officers, the worst ones have been over-degreed morons.


Opposite here. Worst managers were retired military officers.
 
2014-02-13 08:21:55 AM  

flondrix: Cerebral Ballsy: Fired but offered separation pay or early retirement, aka "laid off". A little gentler butt rape than firing.

What sort of benefits do they get?  Specifically, those who have served in combat?

This may be a kindness; if you keep deploying someone enough times, eventually they will suffer a debilitating injury, either physically or mentally, and the US is doing a lousy job of taking care of the new disabled veterans that we have been creating.  Worse; if you suffer from PTSD or other psychiatric problems, instead of offering treatment the military will build up a file of your "disciplinary problems" (not hard to do when you have PTSD) so that they can dismiss you without any benefits or coverage at all.


The VA has recently become better at this. There used to be a real stigma about applying for benefits, but they've taken away a lot of the implied guilt trip. Especially with PTSD. My problem wasn't that, but hearing loss - it's been damaged since my combat service 30 years ago. At the time testing wasn't that advanced and I was made to feel I must have a "cold" or something. I know what it's like to work 30 years at jobs where communication is a real issue, which is most any job if you think about it - I've had to. Took my claim a year to pass through the red tape, but it went through finally and I get hearing aids that actually work. As far as PTSD, they have a better handle on diagnosing now and don't require the vet to prove their case to an unqualified clerk. If you know a vet that has been made to feel like a malcontent farking liar in the past when trying to get help - tell them to try again now. They might be a malcontent farking liar, but if they aren't the help is there. They now just don't assume everyone is and make them prove they aren't.

As far as reduction, I went in during the post Vietnam era reduction and was still there during the Reagan era build up. As far as the military goes; I feel it's much better to be let go not needed,  than to be needed someplace where you never return.
 
2014-02-13 08:44:57 AM  
Russ1642


They're downsizing and laying off 80,000 people. They should have no problems finding jobs.

Yes the economic boom that is the obam-economy will welcome them with open arms.
 
2014-02-13 09:11:00 AM  

Ficoce: Worse; if you suffer from PTSD or other psychiatric problems, instead of offering treatment the military will build up a file of your "disciplinary problems" (not hard to do when you have PTSD) so that they can dismiss you without any benefits or coverage at all.

The VA has recently become better at this.


It's not the VA but the service itself that is doing this--people who have psychological problems before their hitch is up cannot get the help they need.  The VA may acknowledge the existence of PTSD, but the Army doesn't.
 
2014-02-13 09:21:55 AM  
It's called a drawdown. its happened before.

We do need to gut the higher ranks too: Cut back flag ranks and oh, 33% spounds like a good start.
 
2014-02-13 09:50:45 AM  

bearcats1983: Serious question, why do so many vets have an issue finding jobs once they're out of the service? Is this only an enlisted issue or does it affect officers as well?


A lot of enlisted guys don't have a college degree when they get out, and dealing with HR types whose only familiarity with the military is from Hollywood.
 
2014-02-13 10:13:26 AM  

flondrix: Ficoce: Worse; if you suffer from PTSD or other psychiatric problems, instead of offering treatment the military will build up a file of your "disciplinary problems" (not hard to do when you have PTSD) so that they can dismiss you without any benefits or coverage at all.

The VA has recently become better at this.

It's not the VA but the service itself that is doing this--people who have psychological problems before their hitch is up cannot get the help they need.  The VA may acknowledge the existence of PTSD, but the Army doesn't.


I realize this, but does it really benefit someone to be treated by the Army? Can PTSD be cured by a few weeks treatment and a stern talk? Actually, disciplinary problems in-service might actually help the VA claim. The new regs the VA follows are different now. They used to tackle the situation like this: Vet comes in claiming PTSD. Does their DD214 show combat? Is there proof they were in a situation that might have resulted in PTSD? If yes, let's file a claim and a year or so down the road test this guy. If not, make him give us a bunch of reasons why we should really dig into his history and see if it's worth testing years down the road. Sometimes years later, after a lot of taxpayer expense, the Vet might be tested. Many times a Vet with severe PTSD might have offed themselves without ever being diagnosed. Now they look at it like this: Vet comes in with questionable PTSD. Were they in the service? Yes? Well, lets just test them and see if they do have PTSD, we can do that with little effort or expense. They do? Does the qualified person that did the test feel it was likely service connected? Yes? Is it treatable with minor effort, or do we really need to dig to set a disability rating? If his life is pretty much normal with minor issues, they can start the claim toward treatment - and if he's a danger to himself or others they can work it case by case to fast track.

Things are changing. A couple CSB's.

I worked with a lady whose son was a two tour Marine, Afghanistan. The fear of a third tour made him choose not to re-up, but come home in a crappy economy. Mentally, there was no way he could realistically work; major suicidal - I thought about hiring him, but after a few interviews I suggested to his Mom that he get help. I really doubted he would make it - under the old system I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have. Wasn't long before he was in the local hospital after an attempt. The VA stepped in and off he went to VA inpatient. In the old days he would have been on the street, just another homeless guy that should have bootstrapped instead of ODing under some bridge.

I also have a friend with a masters in social work - and a lot of experience. A couple years ago at 35 he was approached by the Air Force and asked to join at the rank of Capt. I told him the AF was pretty cushy and I'd personally jump all over that. My friend didn't accept, but I have to think if the AF was actively looking for his skill set - they know there is a problem and are working on it. The Army's living conditions wouldn't really draw in the professionals need to deal with these issues. I imagine it comes down to dollars. It costs a lot more money to train some AF zoomy than it does some easily replaced Army E-5 grunt. They'll let the VA take care of those guys.
 
2014-02-13 10:18:06 AM  
I'll just drop this off here, if any veterans are looking for a job.

Stars & Stripes' Veterans Job Center.
 
2014-02-13 11:04:39 AM  
They'll just start wandering the country, fixing problems and taking care of business, and then leaving before they get too tied down.

/obscure?
/Movie was good, book series is sooooo much better.
 
2014-02-13 12:35:27 PM  

bearcats1983: Serious question, why do so many vets have an issue finding jobs once they're out of the service? Is this only an enlisted issue or does it affect officers as well?


It's sometimes very difficult to convey your experience's value to an employer if they don't have some amount of knowledge of how military systems work.  This results in vets often getting stuck in cycles of trying to be a contractor supporting things they used to work on while they were in until they have enough experience in the civilian world to be able to escape into the broader economy.

/Not going through that process right now at all
//Don't know what you're talking about
 
2014-02-13 01:32:22 PM  
Well, the next time a Republican president is elected, there will be plenty of new wars to employ them.
 
2014-02-13 01:37:29 PM  
Piizzadude:
But stop thinking of the military as a jobs program.  It isn't, and using it like that gets us into stupid wars that we have no business involved in.

your answer is really More Government?


It sounded to me more like repurposing the government you're already paying for.
 
2014-02-13 01:55:20 PM  

Deep Contact: Boojum2k: bearcats1983: Serious question, why do so many vets have an issue finding jobs once they're out of the service? Is this only an enlisted issue or does it affect officers as well?

Officers have a much easier time getting good work. Some of my best bosses in civilian life were retired officers, the worst ones have been over-degreed morons.

Opposite here. Worst managers were retired military officers.


I believe it, I probably got lucky.
 
2014-02-13 02:45:57 PM  
I hear Al-Qaeda is hiring.
 
2014-02-13 10:26:25 PM  
FYI:

Don't let Marketing run your health plan
Don't let Purchasing pick your coffee
Don't let HR run your Military

Now let's go park some transports somewhere and not use 'em.
 
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