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(Huffington Post)   Kansas House passes bill allowing open discrimination against gay people   ( huffpost.com) divider line
    More: Asinine, Kansas House, Kansas, same-sex couples, discrimination, Kansas Legislature  
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3863 clicks; posted to Politics » on 12 Feb 2014 at 1:34 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



352 Comments     (+0 »)
 
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2014-02-12 03:27:39 PM  

I drunk what: those bigots are going to look so stupid 40 years from now


they look stupid now.
 
2014-02-12 03:29:05 PM  

TheNewJesus: God damn these people waste a lot of time and effort pushing their bigotry...


Look on the bright side. The challenges to the law will cost them millions and it will be overturned.
 
2014-02-12 03:30:20 PM  
Some questions:

Can I start my own religion & discriminate against legislators, or do I need a pre-approved religion? If so, can I discriminate against people who are left handed? Against the "wrong kind" of christian? Against people who eat shellfish? Against people who wear material mixed of wool and linen together?
 
2014-02-12 03:30:33 PM  
I can't imagine this will stand up to even the barest amount of scrutiny, though I do imagine the lawyers are already lining up to take shots at it. And then we'll have to listen to the wailing and gnashing of teeth, and rending of garments, over how mean old Obummer Hussein and his goosestepping federal brownshirts trod all over States' Rights.
 
2014-02-12 03:31:20 PM  
meh.  wake me when the courts say that this shiat is ok.  Until then, it's one guy's talking point.
 
2014-02-12 03:32:06 PM  

The Lizard People: I can't imagine this will stand up to even the barest amount of scrutiny, though I do imagine the lawyers are already lining up to take shots at it. And then we'll have to listen to the wailing and gnashing of teeth, and rending of garments, over how mean old Obummer Hussein and his goosestepping federal brownshirts trod all over States' Rights.


To borrow a line from Dodgeball:  I'm pretty sure this is what Lawyers call, "The Jackpot."
 
2014-02-12 03:32:21 PM  

cchris_39: Ah, so even though your services are not at all compromised you would force others to disregard their own religious beliefs.

Thanks for letting us know your true feelings on the matter.


So, apparently, you would have no problem with a private business putting up a "No African-Americans served here sign"...

Thanks for letting us know your true feelings on the matter. It's refreshing to see an unashamed, ignorant bigot with the strength of their convictions.
 
2014-02-12 03:35:04 PM  

Tricky Chicken: Can we just tag and release all the people that live(ed) in Kansas please.  Just a tattoo on their forehead that says 'I chose to live in Kansas' or something like that.  That way if you ever see one speaking, you are forewarned.


I currently live in Lawrence and think this bill is abhorrent at best. Should I get stamped too?
 
2014-02-12 03:36:07 PM  

cchris_39: FTA -

While government agencies would still be mandated to render services to Kansans, individual clerks would be empowered to refuse assistance to individuals that violated their religious beliefs on marriage.

If an individual employee objects on religious grounds, they will be assigned to employee who does not object and still get same services rendered to other Kansans.  That's all it says.

Nothing in the bill to limit or deny services to gay couples.

That seems like a pretty reasonable compromise.


So, if there are, say, three people working for the state in some kind of capacity at some office and all three go to the same pentecostal gay-hating church and cannot speak to the evil gay people for fear of sin, what then? What if there aren't any other clowns to do the work?

Just like the licensed pharmacist: do your farking job and shut your pie hole, and keep in mind that your job is not to make moral religious determinations about the farker in front of you. That's the internet's job.
 
2014-02-12 03:36:41 PM  

Tomahawk513: The Lizard People: I can't imagine this will stand up to even the barest amount of scrutiny, though I do imagine the lawyers are already lining up to take shots at it. And then we'll have to listen to the wailing and gnashing of teeth, and rending of garments, over how mean old Obummer Hussein and his goosestepping federal brownshirts trod all over States' Rights.

To borrow a line from Dodgeball:  I'm pretty sure this is what Lawyers call, "The Jackpot."


Lawyers write these laws. Lawyers have to go to court and argue for/against them.

Methinks there might be a bit of ensuring they have work for the next few years, billed $400 hours at a time.
 
2014-02-12 03:37:16 PM  
Once this self-fulfilling prophesy gets shut down in federal court, the herpaderpers are going to have all the ammo they need to retain their incumbency.

/Kansan
//interviewed with Lance Kinzer, didn't get the job
 
2014-02-12 03:38:19 PM  

Tomahawk513: I know right?  And they always got to eat around back.  "Around back" was always this magical land of mystery and adventure.  How come I was never invited?  What was back there?  Couches?  Bowling?  Jawbreaker dispensers?  A fountain of chocolate champagne?


Hey, baby, I can show you what's goin' on around back. Just slide a little closer and let me show you my fountain of chocolate champagne.
 
2014-02-12 03:39:14 PM  

cchris_39: FTA -

While government agencies would still be mandated to render services to Kansans, individual clerks would be empowered to refuse assistance to individuals that violated their religious beliefs on marriage.

If an individual employee objects on religious grounds, they will be assigned to employee who does not object and still get same services rendered to other Kansans.  That's all it says.

Nothing in the bill to limit or deny services to gay couples.

That seems like a pretty reasonable compromise.


Until you seek a service that only has one available individual to perform the states role in.  At which point it is limiting services since now you have to wait for the non-bigot town clerk to be available to take care of your basic rights as a citizen.

This is hardly a compromise, the compromise is "Do your damned job as prescribed by law and provide services to citizens, stop trying to pretend you can artificially filter it based on your own personal biases".
 
2014-02-12 03:39:21 PM  
P - "I'd like to renew my registration and get a dog license please"

C- "Denied, against my religion, see another town clerk"

P - "But your the only town clerk we have had for years"

C- "Not my problem"
 
2014-02-12 03:39:26 PM  

cchris_39: Ah, so even though your services are not at all compromised you would force others to disregard their own religious beliefs.

Thanks for letting us know your true feelings on the matter.


No one is forcing the county clerk to get gay married. No religious beliefs are being compromised. Complaining that they're icky and you don't want to deal with them because you're unfamiliar with your own religious texts is dumb, but do your goddamn job. Save the complaints for facebook.
 
2014-02-12 03:41:41 PM  

busy chillin': Leishu: thurstonxhowell: cchris_39: That seems like a pretty reasonable compromise.

Yeah. They'd like to burn gays at the stake, sane people would like to treat gays like they would treat any other people. Clearly, this is an example of a situation where both sides need to compromise.

Not really, no. This is more the issue where Conservatives need to face the fact that, to any sane, thinking person, religion should not dictate civil rights and individual civil rights should ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS trump state rights.

And they think Obama is shredding the constitution. But you know, it is hard to read all the way to first amendment.


Your rights end at the tip of your nose. If the government provides services and you work for the government, get over it. It isn't a violation of anyone's first amendment rights.
 
2014-02-12 03:42:05 PM  

Serious Black: Tricky Chicken: Can we just tag and release all the people that live(ed) in Kansas please.  Just a tattoo on their forehead that says 'I chose to live in Kansas' or something like that.  That way if you ever see one speaking, you are forewarned.

I currently live in Lawrence and think this bill is abhorrent at best. Should I get stamped too?


No, we'd set up rigorous tests for intelligence, literacy, and Jesus-ness.  We might request that you sign our "I'm trying guys, really, but have you seen what I'm up against" documentation.  It comes with perks every time you vote.
 
2014-02-12 03:42:35 PM  

CrackpipeCardozo: Once this self-fulfilling prophesy gets shut down in federal court, the herpaderpers are going to have all the ammo they need to retain their incumbency.

/Kansan
//interviewed with Lance Kinzer, didn't get the job


At this point, the only way any of the Republicans in the state legislature will lose their positions is if somebody even more insane than them wins in the primary.
 
2014-02-12 03:43:04 PM  

Eddie Adams from Torrance: I'm getting a job as a county clerk in Kansas.

My religion prohibits having contact with bigots and morons.

I'll be in once a month to pickup my check.


shiat, that's what direct deposit is for.
 
2014-02-12 03:43:21 PM  
dr_blasto:
Your rights end at the tip of your nose. If the government provides services and you work for the government, get over it. It isn't a violation of anyone's first amendment rights.

isn't this a law respecting Christianity?
 
2014-02-12 03:44:30 PM  

UncomfortableSilence: Serious Black: Tricky Chicken: Can we just tag and release all the people that live(ed) in Kansas please.  Just a tattoo on their forehead that says 'I chose to live in Kansas' or something like that.  That way if you ever see one speaking, you are forewarned.

I currently live in Lawrence and think this bill is abhorrent at best. Should I get stamped too?

No, we'd set up rigorous tests for intelligence, literacy, and Jesus-ness.  We might request that you sign our "I'm trying guys, really, but have you seen what I'm up against" documentation.  It comes with perks every time you vote.


Eh, I suppose that's an acceptable compromise.
 
2014-02-12 03:44:45 PM  

dr_blasto: No one is forcing the county clerk to get gay married. No religious beliefs are being compromised. Complaining that they're icky and you don't want to deal with them because you're unfamiliar with your own religious texts is dumb, but do your goddamn job. Save the complaints for facebook.


The floodgates were opened when people allowed loon bag pharmacists to pick and choose whether or not they wanted to dispense birth control. Nobody is making them take it. Nobody is making their family members take it. But they are interfering with the doctor-patient relationship based on something that has absolutely nothing to do with them.

Every time an idiot is allowed to deny another person something -- anything -- because their religion says they, personally cannot or should not do something, we make that slope all the more slippery.

And honestly, if you can't do your job and serve whoever comes in, change your job. And if you want to run a business and pick and choose who comes in, maybe just stay at home because (a) you're an asshole and (b) you're an asshole.

The worst part of it is they all know none of this in any way violates anything to do with their religions. They just don't agree with something and are hiding behind lies about their religion. It's kind of sickening that any court allows any of it to go on, ever.
 
2014-02-12 03:46:03 PM  

cchris_39: Do you think people should be forced to set aside their religious beliefs when other people are willing to serve you?


What a person who is incapable of understanding that your rights end where my rights are violated looks like.

There's a lot people who have an entirely fictional understanding of their rights. We really, REALLY need to do a better job teaching it in school. The stupidity in this country is scary.
 
2014-02-12 03:47:50 PM  

NkThrasher: "Do your damned job as prescribed by law and provide services to citizens, stop trying to pretend you can artificially filter it based on your own personal biases".


Oh I would never refuse to serve anyone.  Can you imagine the fun and after work jokes I'd be missing out on?

You'd grow old at the end of the line trying to get your paperwork right (this time) or resubmitting something that somehow can't be found (again).  The irony is that YOU would be the one begging for someone else to help you.

But you would be greeted by my smiling face every time, ready to serve you with all the competence and enthusiasm you would expect from an irate government employee.
 
2014-02-12 03:48:02 PM  

plewis: meh.  wake me when the courts say that this shiat is ok.  Until then, it's one guy's talking point.


Sure, if by "one guy" you mean "the Kansas State House of Representatives".
 
2014-02-12 03:48:20 PM  

I drunk what: kansas is racist because it is afraid


img.fark.net

Q&D.
 
2014-02-12 03:48:52 PM  

Johnny Swank: I wonder if the good citizens of Kansas realize how many millions of dollars they're pissing away passing laws like this that will, without a doubt, get tossed once it hits the court system.


I wish there was some sort of "Party Pays" law that said when a political party puts up a law that is supremely unconstitutional (voter Id, gun bans, anti-abortion, etc.), that party has to pay for ALL court costs.
 
2014-02-12 03:49:33 PM  
So what happens when a newly married woman goes to the dmv, shows her marriage license but her new husband's name is something like Lindsey, which is a gender-neutral name, the dmv person is going to deny the new license?

LULZ
 
2014-02-12 03:49:54 PM  

busy chillin': dr_blasto:
Your rights end at the tip of your nose. If the government provides services and you work for the government, get over it. It isn't a violation of anyone's first amendment rights.

isn't this a law respecting Christianity?


It doesn't mention Christianity. It is only assumed because Kansas=Jesus. As a representative of the government, you'd not be allowed to deny proper services to someone who is otherwise qualified to receive them because they're not like you in one form or another. That is discrimination and illegal. Your (generic your) right to your religious beliefs can't harm anyone else.
 
2014-02-12 03:50:21 PM  

cchris_39: But you would be greeted by my smiling face every time, ready to serve you with all the competence and enthusiasm you would expect from an irate government employee.


When all else fails, revert to 1980s stereotypes and avoid any germane questions that might otherwise cause you to look critically at your beliefs.
 
2014-02-12 03:52:29 PM  

suebhoney: So what happens when a newly married woman goes to the dmv, shows her marriage license but her new husband's name is something like Lindsey, which is a gender-neutral name, the dmv person is going to deny the new license?

LULZ


IT'S LINDSEY AND CHRIS, NOT LINDSAY AND KRIS!
 
2014-02-12 03:53:41 PM  

serpent_sky: And honestly, if you can't do your job and serve whoever comes in, change your job. And if you want to run a business and pick and choose who comes in, maybe just stay at home because (a) you're an asshole and (b) you're an asshole.


The pharmacist thing was atrocious. That's a licensed profession, you'd expect the person performing the job to be a professional. If I owned a pharmacy, I'd fire his ass post haste. Well, I'd offer to demote to stocking shelves for the OTC stuff.

Now that I think of it, BC should be on the shelves anyhow.
 
2014-02-12 03:54:35 PM  

cchris_39: Oh I would never refuse to serve anyone.


You can, you just can't do it when it comes to any of the protected classes. It's really not that hard to understand. All you have to do is say you're refusing them because they're a-holes, and that it has nothing to do with their <insert protected class here>.

Just make sure you aren't consistently doing it to <insert protected class here>, or at a minimum, that they have no way to statistically show you are. If not, you have nothing to complain about when you get sued.
 
2014-02-12 03:56:05 PM  

Serious Black: At this point, the only way any of the Republicans in the state legislature will lose their positions is if somebody even more insane than them wins in the primary.


I can see it now:

[HB 2543]  was designed to protect against religious persecution, but the ever-expanding federal government has ONCE AGAIN launched a salvo of god-hating fury in its non-stop persecution of religious minorities. [HB 2543] was passed by the elected majority of the Kansas legislature to protect the constitutional freedoms granted in the Constitution to protect religious freedom.
 
2014-02-12 03:58:03 PM  
"Discrimination is horrible. It's hurtful ... It has no place in civilized society, and that's precisely why we're moving this bill," Macheers said.


I'll be damned if I'm going to allow people to discriminate against my rights to discriminate based on my religion!"

see also: What the f*ck is with Republicans that don't understand the 14th amendment? Didn't they attend their class on the Constitution? How is an obviously unconstitutional law in any way fiscally responsible?
 
2014-02-12 03:58:31 PM  

dr_blasto: The pharmacist thing was atrocious. That's a licensed profession, you'd expect the person performing the job to be a professional. If I owned a pharmacy, I'd fire his ass post haste. Well, I'd offer to demote to stocking shelves for the OTC stuff.

Now that I think of it, BC should be on the shelves anyhow.


But then they would turn around and sue you because you fired them because of their religious beliefs, not because they were pissing off your customers/causing you to lose business.  And you may or may not win.  It's dangerous territory for the unfortunate business owner saddled with someone refusing to do a routine part of his/her job based on imaginary religious beliefs.
 
2014-02-12 04:00:45 PM  

serpent_sky: dr_blasto: The pharmacist thing was atrocious. That's a licensed profession, you'd expect the person performing the job to be a professional. If I owned a pharmacy, I'd fire his ass post haste. Well, I'd offer to demote to stocking shelves for the OTC stuff.

Now that I think of it, BC should be on the shelves anyhow.

But then they would turn around and sue you because you fired them because of their religious beliefs, not because they were pissing off your customers/causing you to lose business.  And you may or may not win.  It's dangerous territory for the unfortunate business owner saddled with someone refusing to do a routine part of his/her job based on imaginary religious beliefs.


The pharmacist should also lose their license.
 
2014-02-12 04:01:45 PM  

dr_blasto: busy chillin': dr_blasto:
Your rights end at the tip of your nose. If the government provides services and you work for the government, get over it. It isn't a violation of anyone's first amendment rights.

isn't this a law respecting Christianity?

It doesn't mention Christianity. It is only assumed because Kansas=Jesus. As a representative of the government, you'd not be allowed to deny proper services to someone who is otherwise qualified to receive them because they're not like you in one form or another. That is discrimination and illegal. Your (generic your) right to your religious beliefs can't harm anyone else.


But it seems to state that public and private employees can discriminate based on their personal religious beliefs.

So they can deny services to people whom they find icky, which in turn, might harm them. Am I wrong? And if I am, then this whole thread seems pointless, now.
 
2014-02-12 04:03:23 PM  

propasaurus: inglixthemad: So, because I'm a Catholic and hate Protestants I'm cool to discriminate against them.

Good to know.

No, that's discrimination. However, because I'm Baptist, I'm now free to discriminate against those pagan idolater Catholics.


Really, I'm not allowed to discriminate against heretics? Piffle I say, piffle. The law shall protect my conscience. No service for you heathen. Oh, and no marriage license if you've been married before! (well, ok, if you are a widow or widower, it's cool) You want a business application filed? Forget it you godless heathen, I refuse to help you. You want a construction permit you divorced harlot? Never! My conscience won't abide helping you heathens.
 
2014-02-12 04:03:58 PM  

Lord_Baull: "Discrimination is horrible. It's hurtful ... It has no place in civilized society, and that's precisely why we're moving this bill," Macheers said.


I'll be damned if I'm going to allow people to discriminate against my rights to discriminate based on my religion!"

see also: What the f*ck is with Republicans that don't understand the 14th amendment? Didn't they attend their class on the Constitution? How is an obviously unconstitutional law in any way fiscally responsible?


Their understanding of the constitution and what it means is fundamentally flawed. The whole thing escapes their grasp, see first amendment in particular.  "You can't fire him for what he said about the gay's!" "Why hasn't *insert name here* been fired for saying those nasty things about *conservative pundit or politician*"
 
2014-02-12 04:05:37 PM  
If your "religion" is based on being cruel to people, then it's not a religion. It's your convenient excuse for being an asshole.
 
2014-02-12 04:06:42 PM  

inglixthemad: propasaurus: inglixthemad: So, because I'm a Catholic and hate Protestants I'm cool to discriminate against them.

Good to know.

No, that's discrimination. However, because I'm Baptist, I'm now free to discriminate against those pagan idolater Catholics.

Really, I'm not allowed to discriminate against heretics? Piffle I say, piffle. The law shall protect my conscience. No service for you heathen. Oh, and no marriage license if you've been married before! (well, ok, if you are a widow or widower, it's cool) You want a business application filed? Forget it you godless heathen, I refuse to help you. You want a construction permit you divorced harlot? Never! My conscience won't abide helping you heathens.


my personal and sincerely held religious beliefs hold that I shouldn't have to do business with assholes, charlatans or bigots.....so members of the Kansas State Legislature are going to have to go somewhere else.
 
2014-02-12 04:07:00 PM  

cchris_39: You'd grow old at the end of the line trying to get your paperwork right (this time) or resubmitting something that somehow can't be found (again). The irony is that YOU would be the one begging for someone else to help you.


The sad thing is that you're actually proud of that.
 
2014-02-12 04:07:10 PM  

nmrsnr: I drunk what: kansas is racist because it is afraid

[img.fark.net image 472x391]

Q&D.


This is the highlight of my week.
 
2014-02-12 04:09:57 PM  

TV's Vinnie: If your "religion" is based on being cruel to people, then it's not a religion. It's your convenient excuse for being an asshole.


I agree with this. I hope Jesus comes back. I think many people would have a really rude awakening.

For someone who seems to teach compassion and love, they sure have twisted his words around.

But I lost my religion years ago so maybe God really does want me to hate gay people. Could you imagine going to hell for being compassionate? Cool game you set up here, Big Guy.
 
2014-02-12 04:10:41 PM  

serpent_sky: dr_blasto: The pharmacist thing was atrocious. That's a licensed profession, you'd expect the person performing the job to be a professional. If I owned a pharmacy, I'd fire his ass post haste. Well, I'd offer to demote to stocking shelves for the OTC stuff.

Now that I think of it, BC should be on the shelves anyhow.

But then they would turn around and sue you because you fired them because of their religious beliefs, not because they were pissing off your customers/causing you to lose business.  And you may or may not win.  It's dangerous territory for the unfortunate business owner saddled with someone refusing to do a routine part of his/her job based on imaginary religious beliefs.


If an employee can discriminate against customers because of their religious beliefs, why can't an employer discriminate against employees because of their religious beliefs?
 
2014-02-12 04:11:50 PM  

serpent_sky: dr_blasto: The pharmacist thing was atrocious. That's a licensed profession, you'd expect the person performing the job to be a professional. If I owned a pharmacy, I'd fire his ass post haste. Well, I'd offer to demote to stocking shelves for the OTC stuff.

Now that I think of it, BC should be on the shelves anyhow.

But then they would turn around and sue you because you fired them because of their religious beliefs, not because they were pissing off your customers/causing you to lose business.  And you may or may not win.  It's dangerous territory for the unfortunate business owner saddled with someone refusing to do a routine part of his/her job based on imaginary religious beliefs.


And yet, if I refused to hire people who subscribed to ANY organized faith (to shortcut all of these moronic "I don't want to do my job!" arguments), *I'd* be the one facing an anti-discrimination suit.

That's libs for you.
 
2014-02-12 04:12:48 PM  

TerminalEchoes: sorry if that ruffles feathers


No you're not.
 
2014-02-12 04:13:39 PM  
How pathetic is it there are people here in favor of enabling bigotry among state and municipal workers and protecting them from any consequences of denying tax payer funded services to homosexuals?

...And calling it a "compromise"? Unreal.
 
2014-02-12 04:14:36 PM  
So if a KKK member believes that his Christian faith teaches that blacks are not equal to rights, will he be afforded the same "right" to deny service to black people based on his deeply held religious beliefs?

Will a fundamentalist Muslim business owner be able to deny services to women who are not covered in a burqa because they are violating his deeply held religious beliefs?
 
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