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(Washington Post)   The good thing about cutting off federal unemployment benefits is that economists can collect more data on the "Kramer Effect": How people with no clear means of income live   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 68
    More: Misc, unemployment benefits, economists, Capitol Heights, NELP, Alan Krueger, William McKinley, incomes, Cosmo Kramer  
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6381 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 Feb 2014 at 2:11 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
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2014-02-12 03:06:02 PM  
12 votes:
Move in with relatives, who don't want you there but don't feel they can refuse you. Stand in line at food banks. Go to the library to use computers and internet access to look for jobs (sending out resumes that don't get a response). Sell your belongings and your car (if you had one). Take the bus or walk around to the local businesses to apply for work (and be told you have to apply on line). Go to interviews and never get called back. Re-write your resume for every job you apply to, hoping to maximize your chances. Lower your expectations. Lower your expectations. Lower. Run out of benefits.
Take a menial job for minimum wage at a fast food joint or as a cashier at a self serve gas station.
REPUBLICANS: See?! They're just lazy. They got a job right away.
2014-02-12 02:24:55 PM  
10 votes:
radicalunjobbing.files.wordpress.com
2014-02-12 02:27:22 PM  
7 votes:

2KanZam: I used to dismiss the idea that these extended unemployement benefits keep people from working by allowing them to live off the gov't.

But I have a few (lazy) acquaintences whom have been laid off for some time now and "couldn't find a job anywhere"...well as soon as their benefits were cut recently, *POOF* they suddenly both came up with jobs!

Huh, whodathunkit? (seriously, I had no idea some people really were THAT lazy)


Yay! Jobs! Now, question, these fictional acquaintances of yours, did they find a job so fast in pay comparable or better than their old job or did they get a job so low in pay that it won't even cover basic needs?
2014-02-12 03:12:27 PM  
5 votes:

2KanZam: I used to dismiss the idea that these extended unemployement benefits keep people from working by allowing them to live off the gov't.

But I have a few (lazy) acquaintences whom have been laid off for some time now and "couldn't find a job anywhere"...well as soon as their benefits were cut recently, *POOF* they suddenly both came up with jobs!

Huh, whodathunkit? (seriously, I had no idea some people really were THAT lazy)


Lazy? fark you.

I was on unemployment after I lost my engineering job in 2008 and once that ran out I ran right out and got a job too!  I taught drafting for 4 hours a day in a location that was an 1 hour drive away.  Then I got a job in a call center for 30% of my previous wage. I was barely able to pay my student debt, I nearly went bankrupt, and I had to move back in with my mother for 8 months.  It's a good thing that makes me lazy though because otherwise I might have had the energy to put a gun in my mouth.

The good news is that I got an engineering job in 2010 and  I'll be out from under the associated debts of my hiatus from earning a decent wage by 2015.  The thing is I'm aprivileged white male with an excellent family support structure and while I never asked for orreceived a single handout I knew that one would be forthcoming if I did ask.  I had the ability to fix my problems and it still nearly ruined me.  What about all the people who don't have the numerous advantages that I have?
2014-02-12 04:08:41 PM  
4 votes:

cgraves67: The last time we were hiring we had a couple of applicants who asked to delay starting by a few weeks till their unemployment ran out. They wanted every last drop of free money.


Considering they pay into unemployment, it's hardly free money.
2014-02-12 03:59:39 PM  
4 votes:

YixilTesiphon: meat0918: A guy with an engineering degree shouldn't be working as a burger flipper.

What if nobody wants to employ him to be an engineer?


You guys talk about jobs as if they go to the highest educated bidder.  As someone with a degree that had to look for that kind of work for a while I'm here to tell you....  THEY DON'T WANT YOU.

I was told by a few people they liked my hustle and work ethic, they just couldn't justify hiring someone with a degree who could switch jobs down the road when they could instead hire a single parent struggling to make ends meet.  That second candidate could truly need that job for the rest of their life.

People who hire for burger flipping jobs hate turnover.  They avoid 'flight risks' whenever possible.
2014-02-12 02:20:21 PM  
4 votes:

Smeggy Smurf: If you don't have the government enabling you to sit on the couch you'll do what your grandparents did and move to where the work is.  I hear the Dakotas and Texas are hiring.


You have read the Grapes of Wrath right?

Also they will do what your Grandparents did, steal, loot, riot and /or hang aristocrats
2014-02-12 06:24:46 PM  
3 votes:

Trance354: That position at McD's flipping burgers is a 6 month gig which familiarizes the new employee with the business and gives the business time to evaluate the employee for their potential.  If you come in, do the work, and go home, you are written off as a menial employee, and you have only yourself to blame when someone else comes in and shines at the position, and gets the promotion ahead of you.


That's a nice story, but it's not what actual studies show. Decade-long studies of adults working at fast food restaurants show that only about 22% of them make it out of poverty, and that's when the economy is good. Even if we accept your story as reality -- which would require us to believe that nearly 80% of adult fast-food workers are too unmotivated to really want work their way out of poverty -- it's still a problem with the system because keeping people forever in poverty is bad not just for them but for society as a whole, regardless of their motivation.
2014-02-12 06:18:27 PM  
3 votes:

Thunderpipes: Bet it doesn't cost taxpayers as much.


You're gonna lose that one. People working jobs that don't support them still get government aid, and now have extra expenses like transportation, child care, lack of access to education, reduced access to health care, etc. It's often a net loss compared to just giving them enough money to eat and stay indoors.
2014-02-12 04:47:08 PM  
3 votes:
Haha, I am barely employed. I enjoy a very nice lifestyle. I travel. I take more college classes (working on a second degree).

I have never in my life taken welfare. I've never taken unemployment. People wonder how I work so little. The answer is: I live within my means. I am self employed but have taken jobs here and there to add to my income before. I've been doing this for my whole life. It blows people's f*cking minds.

I drive a cash car and when it breaks I fix it myself. I make my own stuff (I am very artistic). I live in a tiny apartment but I'm hardly ever home, I like the outdoors.

I don't have kids; that's a huge money saver. I try not to get involved with anything that has "monthly payments". I got my first credit card at 30. The only debt I have is a small student loan I took out for my first year of college, and I regret that.

I have a friend who is gifting me some furniture this week and I am reupholstering it. My brother is a lot like I am, he is a waiter who works 25 hours and stays home with his baby while his wife works her 30 hours. He also has reupholstered used furniture so I probably will ask him to help me.

Most people think they need that new car or a bigger house, so they work 60 hours, many of them at jobs they hate.

I call myself "willfully poor". I consider myself much more fortunate than say the "unwillfully poor" who are uneducated, have trouble finding employment, have children they cannot care for, have poor so ISL skills or low mental ability or have some other factor that prevents them from living comfortably well.

My father did not understand me for a long time. He worked as an engineer, and he worked long hours. My parents always said they'd travel when they retired but now they're too tired, too out of shape. I watched them and decide that if I wanted to travel I'd figure out a way to do it for free or to do it for a living.. And I have.

Recently my parents came to visit and my dad looked around my house. I'm used to him complaining about my lack of modern comforts (I got my first TV last year.. I never really liked watching TV.. i preferred to use the computer for leisure). This time when he visited he said "you know.. I think you have it all figured out."

That's all it is.. Figure out what you want, and how much you're willing to give up to get it.
2014-02-12 04:11:20 PM  
3 votes:

keypusher: rogue49: Q: How does crime happen???


Get ready for a big increase...

It really doesn't work that way.  In 2010, when things were very bad, violent crime fell 12%.  You would expect crime to have skyrocketed in the Great Depression, but it didn't.


How does violent crime provide income?

Expect more fraud, theft, and trafficking.
2014-02-12 03:35:59 PM  
3 votes:

YixilTesiphon: meat0918: I thought they had shown the jobs they take are below their skill level jobs that they only take because they are desperate?

Is the argument that it's better in aggregate to have people idle than to take productive, if inferior, jobs?


It's better to have people take jobs according to their skill level, and failing that, keep them from hitting complete bottom so we don't destabilize society through rising crime and hopelessness.

If you have high skilled people in low skilled jobs, those low skilled people have no jobs.  A guy with an engineering degree shouldn't be working as a burger flipper.

Also, raise the minimum wage if you're expecting people that made $30 hour before losing their jobs to take a minimum wage one to make ends meet, assuming that McDonald's would hire him in the first place.
2014-02-12 03:35:05 PM  
3 votes:

cgraves67: 2KanZam: Wendy's Chili: 2KanZam: I used to dismiss the idea that these extended unemployement benefits keep people from working by allowing them to live off the gov't.

But I have a few (lazy) acquaintences whom have been laid off for some time now and "couldn't find a job anywhere"...well as soon as their benefits were cut recently, *POOF* they suddenly both came up with jobs!

Huh, whodathunkit? (seriously, I had no idea some people really were THAT lazy)

What a compelling anecdote. I'm voting for Reagan!


I love how everyone is assuming I'm some conservative...This really did happen and it honestly surprised me.

The last time we were hiring we had a couple of applicants who asked to delay starting by a few weeks till their unemployment ran out. They wanted every last drop of free money.


Or maybe they didn't want a break in cash flow due to recurring costs they couldn't absorb.
2014-02-12 02:38:33 PM  
3 votes:
I've been out of work for 4 years. Two of those years, I couldn't really search for work seriously because I was on dialysis (I had been since 2005 -- don't fark up your kidneys, folks, that crap ain't fun). The third year (2012), I was recovering from a kidney transplant. Last year (and into this year), I've been actively searching for employment and finding very little available. After I stopped receiving unemployment benefits (I took myself off of them because I couldn't, in good faith, keep looking for work -- being on dialysis and all that), I've been living partly on disability benefits (that will end February 2015), a severance payment from my old job, and my life savings.

I'm 50 years old and facing an uphill battle in the job market. I'm not looking for handouts, I'm looking for a job that pays above minimum wage so I can get back on my feet again.

All that being said, I have a hard time believing that the federal government actually gives a leaping G-d damn for people who are still unemployed after their benefits have run out.
2014-02-12 02:23:45 PM  
3 votes:
I used to dismiss the idea that these extended unemployement benefits keep people from working by allowing them to live off the gov't.

But I have a few (lazy) acquaintences whom have been laid off for some time now and "couldn't find a job anywhere"...well as soon as their benefits were cut recently, *POOF* they suddenly both came up with jobs!

Huh, whodathunkit? (seriously, I had no idea some people really were THAT lazy)
2014-02-12 02:16:23 PM  
3 votes:
They sponge off people who would otherwise be using that money to start businesses and/or buy consumer goods.
2014-02-12 05:44:05 PM  
2 votes:
If you think living on unemployment benefits is so good, go ahead and quit your job and live on it. Seriously. Oh, you'd rather keep your job and have a good income and all that goes with it? Funny that.
2014-02-12 05:43:57 PM  
2 votes:

Cerebral Ballsy: That's all it is.. Figure out what you want, and how much you're willing to give up to get it.


A lot of what you said is true, however when you have a family to provide for - that all changes. You are going to want to put them in a good school and not live in the ghetto. You are going to want to make sure they eat healthy. You are going to want to buy them a car probably and put them through college. You are going to have to pay for a wedding assuming they get married. You might have your wife stay home to take care of the kids, thus creating another dependent. You are going to want to have a reliable and safe vehicle for your family. You are going to want to have nice toys etc. It gets expensive real fast. When it is just you, sure life is really easy and if that is forever satisfying to you - great, but some of us want or have families.
2014-02-12 04:39:42 PM  
2 votes:
Well if you deny people a visible means of support, it seems inevitable that they will turn to an invisible means of support, invisible usually meaning not-legal.

Guess what, if your government suddenly found itself with no need to pay out any sort of social support, you'd still get exactly zero paid back to you from your taxes. Once the government has an idea of the taxation you will bear, it will keep taking it from you, it might just channel it in a different direction.

So considering you get nothing back from reducing support to those in unfortunate circumstances, and that society might be a little less pleasant for you when those in unfortunate circumstances turn to nefarious methods to just stay alive, due to lack of support, why on earth are people so caught up in trying to make the people at the bottom of the social scale suffer even more?
2014-02-12 04:31:04 PM  
2 votes:

Smeggy Smurf: If you don't have the government enabling you to sit on the couch you'll do what your grandparents did and move to where the work is.  I hear the Dakotas and Texas are hiring.


The lady in the article was hoping for a job that pays $10.00/hour.  No one should have to move to another state to get a measly $10.00/hour job.
2014-02-12 03:50:31 PM  
2 votes:

YixilTesiphon: meat0918: A guy with an engineering degree shouldn't be working as a burger flipper.

What if nobody wants to employ him to be an engineer?


Why would they when we now have the fad of 'employing' college-educated interns to do for free jobs that paid pretty well 10 years ago?

And why would anyone hire the engineer at a lower wage anyway, considering they should realistically expect him to vanish as soon as he finds a job that pays him in accordance with his skills?
2014-02-12 03:45:27 PM  
2 votes:
cgraves67:

The last time we were hiring we had a couple of applicants who asked to delay starting by a few weeks till their unemployment ran out. They wanted every last drop of free money.

Pro tip: Pay a wage higher than unemployment and you won't have this 'problem'.
2014-02-12 03:42:38 PM  
2 votes:
Thunderpipes:
Yay! Jobs! Now, question, these fictional acquaintances of yours, did they find a job so fast in pay comparable or better than their old job or did they get a job so low in pay that it won't even cover basic needs?

Bet it pays better than unemployment. Bet it keeps them active. Bet it doesn't cost taxpayers as much. Bet it makes them better people.


Unemployment pays 2/3 of your previous wages. At 20$/hour, that's a little over 13$/hour.
Minimum wage pays what, 8$/hour?

Keeps them active? How? By going onto a computer and putting in job applications online all day? Sounds like the opposite of active.

And how in the world would it make them better people? By learning to live with less, by starving, by having to give up on the American Dream?
How do you know that will work in that way? Is it because you have so few brain cells?
2014-02-12 03:29:29 PM  
2 votes:
There certainly are people who are dicking off while collecting unemployment, but I think those people are few and far between.  a lot of people i know who have been on unemployment collect and bust their ass to find a real job as soon as humanly possible.  i only know, maybe 2 people, who have been collecting unemployment for a while and only look for work when the looming threat of their unemployment ending comes up.
2014-02-12 03:25:40 PM  
2 votes:

DarkSoulNoHope: 2KanZam: I used to dismiss the idea that these extended unemployement benefits keep people from working by allowing them to live off the gov't.

But I have a few (lazy) acquaintences whom have been laid off for some time now and "couldn't find a job anywhere"...well as soon as their benefits were cut recently, *POOF* they suddenly both came up with jobs!

Huh, whodathunkit? (seriously, I had no idea some people really were THAT lazy)

Yay! Jobs! Now, question, these fictional acquaintances of yours, did they find a job so fast in pay comparable or better than their old job or did they get a job so low in pay that it won't even cover basic needs?


Pretty much, this.

I have spent my share of time being between contracts, and having to collect unemployment benefits.  My benefits were paying the max, which translates in real-world money to about $15/hr.  So, while looking for work, I couldn't take a position that would pay me less than that, because I would litterally be pissing away time that could be used to find a job that paid more than my benefits.

I don't know that that is true for everyone.  But, that was the situation for me.
2014-02-12 03:19:12 PM  
2 votes:
I don't know how others are doing it, but I've been living off savings for going on 11 months now... I've applied for over 400 jobs and had maybe a dozen interviews - I've got another one tomorrow. Fingers crossed!
2014-02-12 03:16:19 PM  
2 votes:
They get off the couch, and get jobs. Studies show that time returning to work is directly related to how long unemployment benefits are. Why are economics so hard for liberals?
2014-02-12 03:06:48 PM  
2 votes:

2KanZam: I used to dismiss the idea that these extended unemployement benefits keep people from working by allowing them to live off the gov't.

But I have a few (lazy) acquaintences whom have been laid off for some time now and "couldn't find a job anywhere"...well as soon as their benefits were cut recently, *POOF* they suddenly both came up with jobs!

Huh, whodathunkit? (seriously, I had no idea some people really were THAT lazy)


I'm guessing jobs that fail to use their developed skills and talents? The point of unemployment insurance is to reduce job immobility that sub-optimally utilizes skilled labor - in other words, keep smart people from getting stuck digging ditches for the rest of their lives.
2014-02-12 02:36:00 PM  
2 votes:
Done in one.

 I won't read the article, but let me guess.  By government aid, mooching off family, mooching off friends, odd jobs, savings, cohabitating, homelessness, and/or petty crime?
2014-02-12 02:35:03 PM  
2 votes:

DarkSoulNoHope: 2KanZam: I used to dismiss the idea that these extended unemployement benefits keep people from working by allowing them to live off the gov't.

But I have a few (lazy) acquaintences whom have been laid off for some time now and "couldn't find a job anywhere"...well as soon as their benefits were cut recently, *POOF* they suddenly both came up with jobs!

Huh, whodathunkit? (seriously, I had no idea some people really were THAT lazy)

Yay! Jobs! Now, question, these fictional acquaintances of yours, did they find a job so fast in pay comparable or better than their old job or did they get a job so low in pay that it won't even cover basic needs?


I know there has to be a like button around here somewhere...
2014-02-12 02:32:00 PM  
2 votes:

MyRandomName: North Carolina has already stopped long term unemployment... let's see how that is working... oh! Higher employment levels.


i706.photobucket.com
2014-02-12 11:11:09 PM  
1 votes:

Smeggy Smurf: If you don't have the government enabling you to sit on the couch you'll do what your grandparents did and move to where the work is.  I hear the Dakotas and Texas are hiring.


My grandparents were born in, grew up in, and worked nearly their entire lives in a country where they didn't have to compete against minorities, women, gays, or even Catholics. So excuse me if I don't feel all that impressed by their legendary work ethic. If you eliminated more than half the potential workforce out there by blatantly discriminating against them, I'm sure I'd be getting paid more too.
2014-02-12 07:40:12 PM  
1 votes:

tlars699: Are you sure you're getting a good tax rep for yourself?


Single male in suburban CA in apartment underpaid (but there's stock, and I'll get a nice bonus even if we explode.  Seriously, I was getting offered a near-six-figure signing bonus at one place and that only goes UP if we get acquired).  Getting a few hundred off because I moved across country.

There's not a whole lot you can do when you're single in an apartment.

NIMBY's + tech boom => high rents.  High rents => High incomes + roommates + Higher prices (which in turn lead to a vicious cycle of higher incomes => higher rents => higher incomes, until everyone NOT in the tech industry gets priced out, the NIMBY's burn in hell while they build high-rises, or the techies split their $5K/month apartment and laugh while pocketing an extra $30K every year).  High Incomes => High taxes.

Much as I biatch, if I'm NOT paying taxes, we have a problem.  Because I'm in the 92nd percentile of single households (Note: This does not account for COL.  If 92% of the population lived worse than I do, we'd have riots.  Lots of riots).  Sure, I'd like to pay less (~30% plus another 8% in payroll plus assorted other stuff), but if I'm at 5-10%*, we have issues or MUCH smaller safety nets.

*Like I was for the last few years.  Seriously, I got PAID on $20K of income.  Even with state taxes, I think I only paid like $400.  Making Work pay credit and Form 8863 for the win.
2014-02-12 07:08:53 PM  
1 votes:

What_do_you_want_now: Pangea: Of course it's not the job you wish for. I was out of work for 13 weeks in 2002 after losing my job making $72,000 a year and unable to find a job that was "up to my standards."

Do you know what I did when benefits ran out? I took a job paying $49,000 a year that I would have called "beneath me" a few weeks earlier.

Holy smokes?! BENEATH YOU?!

I'd do some pretty unspeakable things to get to $49k/yr, so remember your "beneath me" is someone else's "couple of rungs up".

BTW, not a burger flipper. I'm an IT Manager, and I took this job because the person who had it before me got fired.


I wasn't trying to be dismissive. I fully realize how self-centered and entitled I was.

That was just where my head was when my situation forced me to get some much needed perspective.

I was willing to hold out for what I thought I deserved when I had other options. Once reality set in, I was grateful just to have an offer.
2014-02-12 07:06:39 PM  
1 votes:

tlars699: Lawnchair: tlars699: A reference is the people you worked with while there. Such as your previous manager, or co-workers you may have had, to see what you're like as an employee.New employers call these people at home, so the references are not under pressure from work to give a short review, and to see what you are like as a person.

And, again, the formal policy from my employer to my direct supervisor (and to me regarding co-workers) is, "If you get a call like this at work or at home, refer them to the HR number. Anything else has the risk of a libel suit.".   I think my supervisor would bend that (and hopefully many would), but that's very much the policy.


It's not libel if you tell the truth, and can prove what was said was true.
Also, they don't tell you which reference gave you a bad review that prevented your hiring, so these policies are stupid.


Libel is decided by a judge and by that time you've already been sued and lost money to a lawyer.
2014-02-12 06:49:18 PM  
1 votes:
end EIC, its federal subsidy of minimum wage.
2014-02-12 05:38:24 PM  
1 votes:
And, most importantly, if you naysayers are so sure I am sitting here because I want to be a lazy little mooching shiat, then please do me a favor and tell your LEOs and politicians to please, please stop interfering with my attempt to check out. Thank You. I mean, if you won't help me live, at least stop keeping me alive. Is that too much to ask?
2014-02-12 05:18:32 PM  
1 votes:
tlars699 - Want? Nobody really. Has to be? Someone who has to support two small children?

I knew you were going to say this. I will point out again.... I said 'want'... not 'had to'...

And the previous statement is against the law, I think. Harrassment/retaliation? IANAL, so if you are, please help me out.I mean if you can prove the trumped up reasons are in fact trumped up?

I am aware it is against the law, which is why I said that these people were in fact fired for silly/petty/ no reason... after all, it is a RTW state and they can fire you for NO reason and not have to explain it to anyone. Unless you can prove malice, which is almost impossible for anyone without the resources of amajor corporation. Which, if you have beenkeeping up on current economic affairs, is about 1% of the US population.

Also, if you're looking for an alternate job you
1. Don't list references from anyone in your current employment situation. You keep in contact with outside references, and use those.

If your career path is in a career that is rather specific and small.. like, say being a post-cardiological examiner as an example (I am not one) how are you going to keep it quiet? Such businesses have seminars, they have people who work throughout the profession... how are you going to get another job in such a field when they all know each other, not just in your area, but nation-wide?

2. Don't tell anyone about looking for alternate employment, aside from your spousal unit who doesn't work for the company.

As stated above, it is not a question of talking about it... in some situations it is impossible for your search NOT to get out...

3. DON"T LOOK FOR OTHER JOBS ONLINE WHILE AT YOUR CURRENT JOB.

They were not.In one of the instances I mentioned, they had told no one. But, the HR person of Company B knew the HR person in company A and mentioned getting a resume from my friend because his name came up in normal conversation. Illegal? Maybe... but again, see above reference to ability to carry a sustained legal battle.

Oy vei.

Indeed. You did not strike me as someone who would make such sweeping generalizations as you have done in your last post. There is also something called 'bad luck', which is something that, if never experienced, can easily be ignored. However, it is very real and can destroy a person in every way in a very short space of time, regardless of 'intelligent decisions' and an economically sound lifestyle.
2014-02-12 05:12:59 PM  
1 votes:

Pangea: Of course it's not the job you wish for. I was out of work for 13 weeks in 2002 after losing my job making $72,000 a year and unable to find a job that was "up to my standards."

Do you know what I did when benefits ran out? I took a job paying $49,000 a year that I would have called "beneath me" a few weeks earlier.


Holy smokes?! BENEATH YOU?!

I'd do some pretty unspeakable things to get to $49k/yr, so remember your "beneath me" is someone else's "couple of rungs up".

BTW, not a burger flipper. I'm an IT Manager, and I took this job because the person who had it before me got fired.
2014-02-12 05:10:26 PM  
1 votes:
This thread, y,all.

I graduated last June and have been looking for full time work since. I work two jobs for shiat wages, and am only part-time and on-call. Christ on a seatless bicycle, on-call sucks. Anyway, I already had ten years of experience in my field when I went to school. So I'm applying for many jobs, including ones that list my exact degree and a few years of experience as the minimum requirements. The response? Bupkis. Maybe the occasional auto-generated "your application is in another, smaller pool of applicants and we'll inform you if you're selected for an interview" email, but after that? More bupkis. Blarg.
2014-02-12 04:43:30 PM  
1 votes:

Thunderpipes: meat0918: YixilTesiphon: meat0918: I thought they had shown the jobs they take are below their skill level jobs that they only take because they are desperate?

Is the argument that it's better in aggregate to have people idle than to take productive, if inferior, jobs?

It's better to have people take jobs according to their skill level, and failing that, keep them from hitting complete bottom so we don't destabilize society through rising crime and hopelessness.

If you have high skilled people in low skilled jobs, those low skilled people have no jobs.  A guy with an engineering degree shouldn't be working as a burger flipper.

Also, raise the minimum wage if you're expecting people that made $30 hour before losing their jobs to take a minimum wage one to make ends meet, assuming that McDonald's would hire him in the first place.

So, you cannot look for a job while you have one? You do realize, employers don't like people who spend long times on unemployment?

Stay classy, libs. But heh, now you can focus on your painting, according to Pelosi.


Which is why I would never hire an engineer to sweep floors, pack boxes, or make burgers.
2014-02-12 04:42:06 PM  
1 votes:

FizixJunkee: Crass and Jaded Mother Farker: All2morrowsparTs: Smeggy Smurf: If you don't have the government enabling you to sit on the couch you'll do what your grandparents did and move to where the work is.  I hear the Dakotas and Texas are hiring.

You have read the Grapes of Wrath right?

Also they will do what your Grandparents did, steal, loot, riot and /or hang aristocrats

I thought my grandfather was a mechanic.


My grandfather was a mechanic, too.  His wife (my grandmother) was a stay-at-home mom.

You know, maybe losing unemployment benefits wouldn't be so painful if all those stay-at-home moms out there would get jobs?


They already did. Hence women bringing home more and more bacon as the years go by. It also helps that more and more girls have college degrees. :)
2014-02-12 04:40:25 PM  
1 votes:

Egoy3k: Also most low wage employers don't trust their regional HR reps enough to let them give references and have a no references policy. So that part about getting references in your OP was incorrect as well.


Honestly, the entire concept of 'references' is dead virtually anywhere that has a formal HR department.  I don't care if it was part-time at Sonic or a salaried software engineer at Oracle, for 99% of businesses the policy is to answer a reference call with "Joe Smith was an employee from July 2008 to January 2014. Thank you for calling. click"
2014-02-12 04:38:48 PM  
1 votes:

Crass and Jaded Mother Farker: All2morrowsparTs: Smeggy Smurf: If you don't have the government enabling you to sit on the couch you'll do what your grandparents did and move to where the work is.  I hear the Dakotas and Texas are hiring.

You have read the Grapes of Wrath right?

Also they will do what your Grandparents did, steal, loot, riot and /or hang aristocrats

I thought my grandfather was a mechanic.



My grandfather was a mechanic, too.  His wife (my grandmother) was a stay-at-home mom.

You know, maybe losing unemployment benefits wouldn't be so painful if all those stay-at-home moms out there would get jobs?
2014-02-12 04:35:52 PM  
1 votes:
img.fark.net

The disintegration of collecting as a cultural practice is comparable with the realization of the literary canon. The assertion of commodified objects may be parsed as the marketing of (dis)simulation.

/I created this message with a random word generator.
//Can I be Buckminster Fuller now?
2014-02-12 04:25:10 PM  
1 votes:
Thunderpipes - So, you cannot look for a job while you have one?

Every single person I know who was fired for crappy/unusual/stupid reasons were actually canned because they were caught looking for other jobs. So, absolutely no way would I hunt for a job while already employed in this economy.

Thunderpipes - Stay classy, libs

Stay deluded, cons
/'cons'.... what an apropos nickname...

tlars699 - If you otherwise keep occupied, you clearly are amibitious/go-getting/positive someone who shows they are perfectly willing to be treated like a sub-human serf and willing to kiss any insecure employer's ass as long as they toss a few coins in their general direction.

FTFY

/who would want to be like that, I wonder...
2014-02-12 04:16:14 PM  
1 votes:

tlars699: durbnpoisn: DarkSoulNoHope: 2KanZam: I used to dismiss the idea that these extended unemployement benefits keep people from working by allowing them to live off the gov't.

But I have a few (lazy) acquaintences whom have been laid off for some time now and "couldn't find a job anywhere"...well as soon as their benefits were cut recently, *POOF* they suddenly both came up with jobs!

Huh, whodathunkit? (seriously, I had no idea some people really were THAT lazy)

Yay! Jobs! Now, question, these fictional acquaintances of yours, did they find a job so fast in pay comparable or better than their old job or did they get a job so low in pay that it won't even cover basic needs?

Pretty much, this.

I have spent my share of time being between contracts, and having to collect unemployment benefits.  My benefits were paying the max, which translates in real-world money to about $15/hr.  So, while looking for work, I couldn't take a position that would pay me less than that, because I would litterally be pissing away time that could be used to find a job that paid more than my benefits.

I don't know that that is true for everyone.  But, that was the situation for me.

You know you can't refuse work while on unemplyoment, legally speaking, right?

I'm assuming you mean you can't waste your time looking for lower paying jobs...

But I have to point this out: what gets you a job the fastest? Getting ANY other job, and making a good reference for yourself.


I never once said that I refused work.  I would look at the payscale before even trying for the job.  That is not to say that I wasn't looking.
And, yeah, here in NJ we have to prove we are looking for work too.  They rarely ask you to actually provide a list.  But I tracked every single person I talked to, and what the result was.  I broke no rules whatsoever.
2014-02-12 04:09:45 PM  
1 votes:

tlars699: Thunderpipes:
Yay! Jobs! Now, question, these fictional acquaintances of yours, did they find a job so fast in pay comparable or better than their old job or did they get a job so low in pay that it won't even cover basic needs?

Bet it pays better than unemployment. Bet it keeps them active. Bet it doesn't cost taxpayers as much. Bet it makes them better people.

Unemployment pays 2/3 of your previous wages. At 20$/hour, that's a little over 13$/hour.
Minimum wage pays what, 8$/hour?

Keeps them active? How? By going onto a computer and putting in job applications online all day? Sounds like the opposite of active.

And how in the world would it make them better people? By learning to live with less, by starving, by having to give up on the American Dream?
How do you know that will work in that way? Is it because you have so few brain cells?


No it doesn't. You have no idea what you are talking about. I spent 4 months on unemployment and it paid $250/wk minus taxes. That is the maximum that anyone could be paid. The position I got downsized out of paid $48k, so unemployment paid me a bit over 1/4 of my working salary. Maybe it is 2/3 for people already making bupkis, but the discussion here was about skilled people that can perform much higher paying jobs that need time to find another one.
2014-02-12 03:52:59 PM  
1 votes:

meat0918: I thought they had shown the jobs they take are below their skill level jobs that they only take because they are desperate?


You are correct sir, but that does not fit the conservative dialogue.
2014-02-12 03:51:22 PM  
1 votes:

tlars699: durbnpoisn: DarkSoulNoHope: 2KanZam: I used to dismiss the idea that these extended unemployement benefits keep people from working by allowing them to live off the gov't.

But I have a few (lazy) acquaintences whom have been laid off for some time now and "couldn't find a job anywhere"...well as soon as their benefits were cut recently, *POOF* they suddenly both came up with jobs!

Huh, whodathunkit? (seriously, I had no idea some people really were THAT lazy)

Yay! Jobs! Now, question, these fictional acquaintances of yours, did they find a job so fast in pay comparable or better than their old job or did they get a job so low in pay that it won't even cover basic needs?

Pretty much, this.

I have spent my share of time being between contracts, and having to collect unemployment benefits.  My benefits were paying the max, which translates in real-world money to about $15/hr.  So, while looking for work, I couldn't take a position that would pay me less than that, because I would litterally be pissing away time that could be used to find a job that paid more than my benefits.

I don't know that that is true for everyone.  But, that was the situation for me.

You know you can't refuse work while on unemplyoment, legally speaking, right?

I'm assuming you mean you can't waste your time looking for lower paying jobs...

But I have to point this out: what gets you a job the fastest? Getting ANY other job, and making a good reference for yourself.


I can see it now. ..

"Well yes I have lots of experience in improving efficiency through leveraging technology.  Call my Reference Bill Swanson, he'll tell you how I used noise cancelling headphones to shut out distractions and improve my best time for constructing a bag mac by a whole second."

"At my current job I answer phone calls from idiot parents who are upset about the costs of their kids text messaging constantly despite numerous noted warnings from other sales reps that they should either block messaging or get a plan that includes messaging so I think i'm fully capable of negotiating the new union contract for your company."
2014-02-12 03:50:48 PM  
1 votes:
2KanZam:  I love how everyone is assuming I'm some conservative...This really did happen and it honestly surprised me.

Nothing triggers a response on Fark like presenting anecdotes as data.  I didn't think that's what you were doing, but I could see how it could be taken that way.

You're not wrong about people like your friends - they are part of the problem.  How do you extend benefits for people who's time society has decided isn't worth much without also extending them for people who just aren't motivated.

At some point, perhaps due to outsourcing but also due to productivity increases, we will reach a scenario where there are just far fewer jobs than there are people in the labor pool.  I'm not sure if we'll be willing to find practical answers for that problem; Americans really don't want to give up the idea that work is the key to everything for nearly everybody.   (Nor do we seem to like the idea of paying min. wage to people who pick fruit - so even the jobs we do have might not help the problem.)

/soylent green time?
2014-02-12 03:48:52 PM  
1 votes:

bikerific: [img.fark.net image 356x480]


Friend of mine posted this on facebook.

Because obviously unemployed people drinking on the stoop are a big voting demographic.



A friend of mine did the same.  Oddly enough she's an accountant so she probably does more sitting then the stoop sitting voter pictured.

/I just got my welfare handout.
//By welfare handout I mean the hidden welfare of home ownership tax benefits.
2014-02-12 03:47:24 PM  
1 votes:

YixilTesiphon: meat0918: A guy with an engineering degree shouldn't be working as a burger flipper.

What if nobody wants to employ him to be an engineer?


It's his fault, then. The market is perfect and has opportunities for everybody who is not a lazy farking piece of shiat. It's always your fault. Always. Your. Fault. Always. Always. Always.

What rank bullshiat.

 [radicalunjobbing.files.wordpress.com image 452x433]

Bucky Fuller was and is right. We have more people working than we need because everyone has to work for HIMSELF. You can't pitch in for the general wellbeing.

But the reason is not Mathusian-Darwinian so much as it is carefully cultivated resentment on the part of the White, conservative, lower middle class, obeying the dictates foisted on them by the White, conservative upper class.

In other words, you have to work because people hate you if you don't.
2014-02-12 03:27:45 PM  
1 votes:
I thought they had shown the jobs they take are below their skill level jobs that they only take because they are desperate?
2014-02-12 03:20:10 PM  
1 votes:

2KanZam: I used to dismiss the idea that these extended unemployement benefits keep people from working by allowing them to live off the gov't.

But I have a few (lazy) acquaintences whom have been laid off for some time now and "couldn't find a job anywhere"...well as soon as their benefits were cut recently, *POOF* they suddenly both came up with jobs!

Huh, whodathunkit? (seriously, I had no idea some people really were THAT lazy)


Yeah- operative word here is  some people. Try to not assume shiat about people until you've walked a mile or so in their shoes.

/laid off months ago... applied for hundreds of jobs. A handful of interviews. No luck. I am now facing a move to a cheaper area where I'll be working part time in retail because in my field, I'm a dime a dozen
//hoping for better times
2014-02-12 03:17:32 PM  
1 votes:

DarkSoulNoHope: 2KanZam: I used to dismiss the idea that these extended unemployement benefits keep people from working by allowing them to live off the gov't.

But I have a few (lazy) acquaintences whom have been laid off for some time now and "couldn't find a job anywhere"...well as soon as their benefits were cut recently, *POOF* they suddenly both came up with jobs!

Huh, whodathunkit? (seriously, I had no idea some people really were THAT lazy)

Yay! Jobs! Now, question, these fictional acquaintances of yours, did they find a job so fast in pay comparable or better than their old job or did they get a job so low in pay that it won't even cover basic needs?


Bet it pays better than unemployment. Bet it keeps them active. Bet it doesn't cost taxpayers as much. Bet it makes them better people.
2014-02-12 03:15:21 PM  
1 votes:
Should be some pretty good deals on eBay right about now.
2014-02-12 03:11:56 PM  
1 votes:

netgamer7k: Since we're in the business here in America of tossing rights and gaining rights, how about a right to income? That way everyone's got money, and that money being spent generates demand! And demand = jobs!


That's not as crazy (or unproposed or unprecedented) an idea as you seem to think.  It actually works, in place of or supplemental to traditional welfare.


davespa: So she has a "job" running a non-profit AND she is collecting Unemployment


Your point?  Presumably she draws no salary or other income from the not-for-profit.
2014-02-12 03:08:16 PM  
1 votes:
Q: How does crime happen???


Get ready for a big increase...
2014-02-12 03:07:48 PM  
1 votes:

Smeggy Smurf: If you don't have the government enabling you to sit on the couch you'll do what your grandparents did and move to where the work is.  I hear the Dakotas and Texas are hiring.


My grandparents went where the work was. Unfortunately for my grandparents the work was in Buchenwald and it didn't pay very well at all.

Regardless, I don't know about the Dakotas, but Texas is "hiring" if you like short-term contract work for ~$25k / yr.
2014-02-12 03:06:21 PM  
1 votes:
"Wessita McKinley of Capitol Heights is unemployed and about to lose her jobless benefits. She runs a non-profit that among other things collects food for the working poor."

So she has a "job" running a non-profit AND she is collecting Unemployment
GBB
2014-02-12 02:54:56 PM  
1 votes:
www.washingtonpost.com
Much like global warming, the trend is obvious, so surely it will be refuted.
2014-02-12 02:47:53 PM  
1 votes:
img.fark.net


Friend of mine posted this on facebook.

Because obviously unemployed people drinking on the stoop are a big voting demographic.
2014-02-12 02:37:43 PM  
1 votes:
When I was out of work I wanted to get back to work ASAP. Unemployment paying 60% of what I made sucked so it double motivated me to find a job. The only things that sucked about it were I went to some shady interviews and snd ones where I thought I nailed it and didnt get the job, it was demoralizing.
2014-02-12 02:37:41 PM  
1 votes:

2KanZam: I used to dismiss the idea that these extended unemployement benefits keep people from working by allowing them to live off the gov't.

But I have a few (lazy) acquaintences whom have been laid off for some time now and "couldn't find a job anywhere"...well as soon as their benefits were cut recently, *POOF* they suddenly both came up with jobs!

Huh, whodathunkit? (seriously, I had no idea some people really were THAT lazy)


What a compelling anecdote. I'm voting for Reagan!
2014-02-12 02:20:24 PM  
1 votes:
There are no easy answers. Anyone who says that they have one is trying to sell you something.
2014-02-12 02:15:19 PM  
1 votes:
Sell drugs?
2014-02-12 02:13:48 PM  
1 votes:
If you don't have the government enabling you to sit on the couch you'll do what your grandparents did and move to where the work is.  I hear the Dakotas and Texas are hiring.
 
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