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(Washington Post)   The good thing about cutting off federal unemployment benefits is that economists can collect more data on the "Kramer Effect": How people with no clear means of income live   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 215
    More: Misc, unemployment benefits, economists, Capitol Heights, NELP, Alan Krueger, William McKinley, incomes, Cosmo Kramer  
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6371 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 Feb 2014 at 2:11 PM (27 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



215 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2014-02-12 02:12:25 PM
By ranting at minorities?
 
2014-02-12 02:13:30 PM
Ooh, a social experiment!  A social Science experiment!  Well, there goes GOP support.... right?
 
2014-02-12 02:13:40 PM
That movie sucked.

www.ivstatic.com
 
2014-02-12 02:13:48 PM
If you don't have the government enabling you to sit on the couch you'll do what your grandparents did and move to where the work is.  I hear the Dakotas and Texas are hiring.
 
2014-02-12 02:13:52 PM
With Darren's help, he'll get that chicken!
 
2014-02-12 02:15:19 PM
Sell drugs?
 
2014-02-12 02:16:23 PM
They sponge off people who would otherwise be using that money to start businesses and/or buy consumer goods.
 
2014-02-12 02:18:28 PM
Well, we need someone to replace the recently confiscated roosters in our fights. Why not pit the Kramers against one another for pay? We could give the fights a catchy name. Something with versus in it.

Like "Single mother vs meth addict." Yeah, that sounds good.
 
2014-02-12 02:19:41 PM
How people with no clear means of income live

Oh... they get by.
 
2014-02-12 02:20:21 PM

Smeggy Smurf: If you don't have the government enabling you to sit on the couch you'll do what your grandparents did and move to where the work is.  I hear the Dakotas and Texas are hiring.


You have read the Grapes of Wrath right?

Also they will do what your Grandparents did, steal, loot, riot and /or hang aristocrats
 
2014-02-12 02:20:24 PM
There are no easy answers. Anyone who says that they have one is trying to sell you something.
 
2014-02-12 02:20:45 PM
well, they can always do what most TFer's mom does - suck off local drug dealers for crack.
 
2014-02-12 02:21:34 PM

NorCalLos: They sponge off people who would otherwise be using that money to start businesses and/or buy consumer goods.


uh?
 
2014-02-12 02:23:30 PM
North Carolina has already stopped long term unemployment... let's see how that is working... oh! Higher employment levels.
 
2014-02-12 02:23:45 PM
I used to dismiss the idea that these extended unemployement benefits keep people from working by allowing them to live off the gov't.

But I have a few (lazy) acquaintences whom have been laid off for some time now and "couldn't find a job anywhere"...well as soon as their benefits were cut recently, *POOF* they suddenly both came up with jobs!

Huh, whodathunkit? (seriously, I had no idea some people really were THAT lazy)
 
2014-02-12 02:23:55 PM
Yet I can't look away.
 
2014-02-12 02:24:55 PM
radicalunjobbing.files.wordpress.com
 
2014-02-12 02:27:22 PM

2KanZam: I used to dismiss the idea that these extended unemployement benefits keep people from working by allowing them to live off the gov't.

But I have a few (lazy) acquaintences whom have been laid off for some time now and "couldn't find a job anywhere"...well as soon as their benefits were cut recently, *POOF* they suddenly both came up with jobs!

Huh, whodathunkit? (seriously, I had no idea some people really were THAT lazy)


Yay! Jobs! Now, question, these fictional acquaintances of yours, did they find a job so fast in pay comparable or better than their old job or did they get a job so low in pay that it won't even cover basic needs?
 
2014-02-12 02:32:00 PM

MyRandomName: North Carolina has already stopped long term unemployment... let's see how that is working... oh! Higher employment levels.


i706.photobucket.com
 
2014-02-12 02:35:03 PM

DarkSoulNoHope: 2KanZam: I used to dismiss the idea that these extended unemployement benefits keep people from working by allowing them to live off the gov't.

But I have a few (lazy) acquaintences whom have been laid off for some time now and "couldn't find a job anywhere"...well as soon as their benefits were cut recently, *POOF* they suddenly both came up with jobs!

Huh, whodathunkit? (seriously, I had no idea some people really were THAT lazy)

Yay! Jobs! Now, question, these fictional acquaintances of yours, did they find a job so fast in pay comparable or better than their old job or did they get a job so low in pay that it won't even cover basic needs?


I know there has to be a like button around here somewhere...
 
2014-02-12 02:36:00 PM
Done in one.

 I won't read the article, but let me guess.  By government aid, mooching off family, mooching off friends, odd jobs, savings, cohabitating, homelessness, and/or petty crime?
 
2014-02-12 02:37:41 PM

2KanZam: I used to dismiss the idea that these extended unemployement benefits keep people from working by allowing them to live off the gov't.

But I have a few (lazy) acquaintences whom have been laid off for some time now and "couldn't find a job anywhere"...well as soon as their benefits were cut recently, *POOF* they suddenly both came up with jobs!

Huh, whodathunkit? (seriously, I had no idea some people really were THAT lazy)


What a compelling anecdote. I'm voting for Reagan!
 
2014-02-12 02:37:43 PM
When I was out of work I wanted to get back to work ASAP. Unemployment paying 60% of what I made sucked so it double motivated me to find a job. The only things that sucked about it were I went to some shady interviews and snd ones where I thought I nailed it and didnt get the job, it was demoralizing.
 
2014-02-12 02:38:33 PM
I've been out of work for 4 years. Two of those years, I couldn't really search for work seriously because I was on dialysis (I had been since 2005 -- don't fark up your kidneys, folks, that crap ain't fun). The third year (2012), I was recovering from a kidney transplant. Last year (and into this year), I've been actively searching for employment and finding very little available. After I stopped receiving unemployment benefits (I took myself off of them because I couldn't, in good faith, keep looking for work -- being on dialysis and all that), I've been living partly on disability benefits (that will end February 2015), a severance payment from my old job, and my life savings.

I'm 50 years old and facing an uphill battle in the job market. I'm not looking for handouts, I'm looking for a job that pays above minimum wage so I can get back on my feet again.

All that being said, I have a hard time believing that the federal government actually gives a leaping G-d damn for people who are still unemployed after their benefits have run out.
 
2014-02-12 02:40:29 PM

Far Cough: Done in one.

 I won't read the article, but let me guess.  By government aid, mooching off family, mooching off friends, odd jobs, savings, cohabitating, homelessness, and/or petty crime?


Mostly these three FTA, but to me, the phrase OddJob always has this edge to it.
 
2014-02-12 02:41:45 PM

btfoom: well, they can always do what most TFer's mom does - suck off local drug dealers for crack.


Gotta earn that five bucks to pay for their snowflake's sub somehow.
 
2014-02-12 02:41:57 PM

tlars699: Far Cough: Done in one.

 I won't read the article, but let me guess.  By government aid, mooching off family, mooching off friends, odd jobs, savings, cohabitating, homelessness, and/or petty crime?

Mostly these three FTA, but to me, the phrase OddJob always has this edge to it.


Old hat?
 
2014-02-12 02:43:12 PM

ReverendJynxed: btfoom: well, they can always do what most TFer's mom does - suck off local drug dealers for crack.

Gotta earn that five bucks to pay for their snowflake's sub somehow.


5 Dolla will make you Holla!
 
2014-02-12 02:44:39 PM
Those people can just write it off.
 
2014-02-12 02:47:16 PM
We should follow Mexico's example and send them all north. I'm sure that Canadia would accept them with open arms.
 
2014-02-12 02:47:53 PM
img.fark.net


Friend of mine posted this on facebook.

Because obviously unemployed people drinking on the stoop are a big voting demographic.
 
2014-02-12 02:49:10 PM

2KanZam: But I have a few (lazy) acquaintences whom have been laid off for some time now and "couldn't find a job anywhere"...well as soon as their benefits were cut recently, *POOF* they suddenly both came up with jobs!


Same here.  They weren't lazy though.  The 3 or 4 that I know would work cash jobs while collecting unemployment, all the while trying to find a really good fit for when the well finally ran dry.

Granted that these were skilled techs who could command in the $30 to $50/hr range (cash) for skilled labor.

Probably not an option for Joe Factory Worker though.
 
2014-02-12 02:50:03 PM

Far Cough: tlars699: Far Cough: Done in one.

 I won't read the article, but let me guess.  By government aid, mooching off family, mooching off friends, odd jobs, savings, cohabitating, homelessness, and/or petty crime?

Mostly these three FTA, but to me, the phrase OddJob always has this edge to it.

Old hat?


*shudder* Like steel lined teeth chewing tinfoil, that one.
 
2014-02-12 02:51:18 PM

bikerific: [img.fark.net image 356x480]


Friend of mine posted this on facebook.

Because obviously unemployed people drinking on the stoop are a big voting demographic.


Who knew an image could be the full of dog whistles?
 
2014-02-12 02:52:29 PM

Smeggy Smurf: If you don't have the government enabling you to sit on the couch you'll do what your grandparents did and move to where the work is.  I hear the Dakotas and Texas are hiring.


And if you can't afford the transportation to another state?
 
2014-02-12 02:54:15 PM

bikerific: [img.fark.net image 356x480]


Friend of mine posted this on facebook.

Because obviously unemployed people drinking on the stoop are a big voting demographic.


Yeah right seems like the laziest people I know hardly ever or never vote.
 
2014-02-12 02:54:39 PM

DarkSoulNoHope: 2KanZam: I used to dismiss the idea that these extended unemployement benefits keep people from working by allowing them to live off the gov't.

But I have a few (lazy) acquaintences whom have been laid off for some time now and "couldn't find a job anywhere"...well as soon as their benefits were cut recently, *POOF* they suddenly both came up with jobs!

Huh, whodathunkit? (seriously, I had no idea some people really were THAT lazy)

Yay! Jobs! Now, question, these fictional acquaintances of yours, did they find a job so fast in pay comparable or better than their old job or did they get a job so low in pay that it won't even cover basic needs?



Lower than what they were making before...

I know you think I'm lying, but the one kept sabotaging her interviews by somehow linking the work with Obama...in the interview...out loud..and stating her distatse for him.

The other guy is just stupid.
 
2014-02-12 02:54:41 PM

bikerific: [img.fark.net image 356x480]


Friend of mine posted this on facebook.

Because obviously unemployed people drinking on the stoop are a big voting demographic.


Yep.  They're called Democrats.
 
GBB [TotalFark]
2014-02-12 02:54:56 PM
www.washingtonpost.com
Much like global warming, the trend is obvious, so surely it will be refuted.
 
2014-02-12 02:57:05 PM

Wendy's Chili: 2KanZam: I used to dismiss the idea that these extended unemployement benefits keep people from working by allowing them to live off the gov't.

But I have a few (lazy) acquaintences whom have been laid off for some time now and "couldn't find a job anywhere"...well as soon as their benefits were cut recently, *POOF* they suddenly both came up with jobs!

Huh, whodathunkit? (seriously, I had no idea some people really were THAT lazy)

What a compelling anecdote. I'm voting for Reagan!



I love how everyone is assuming I'm some conservative...This really did happen and it honestly surprised me.
 
2014-02-12 02:57:05 PM

meat0918: bikerific: [img.fark.net image 356x480]


Friend of mine posted this on facebook.

Because obviously unemployed people drinking on the stoop are a big voting demographic.

Who knew an image could be the full of dog whistles?


Is that a grape nehi or a Colt 45 Malt Liquor?  I'm thinking the malt liquor.
 
2014-02-12 02:57:20 PM
Since we're in the business here in America of tossing rights and gaining rights, how about a right to income? That way everyone's got money, and that money being spent generates demand! And demand = jobs!
 
2014-02-12 02:59:37 PM
SELL SELL SELL

cdn.wallstcheatsheet.com
 
2014-02-12 03:01:56 PM

TomD9938: 2KanZam: But I have a few (lazy) acquaintences whom have been laid off for some time now and "couldn't find a job anywhere"...well as soon as their benefits were cut recently, *POOF* they suddenly both came up with jobs!

Same here.  They weren't lazy though.  The 3 or 4 that I know would work cash jobs while collecting unemployment, all the while trying to find a really good fit for when the well finally ran dry.

Granted that these were skilled techs who could command in the $30 to $50/hr range (cash) for skilled labor.

Probably not an option for Joe Factory Worker though.



Well really one is lazy.  She has gotten herself fired from her last few jobs and this time her BF was there to foot the bill, so there was no sense of urgency. She also thinks she is above every job that opens.

The other guy is kinda dumb and he also keeps getting fired (one was his family's business)  But yeah as soon as his teat was drying up it dawned on him.

But of course, as people upthread are insinuating, I am making all this up for some reason.
 
2014-02-12 03:02:34 PM

All2morrowsparTs: Smeggy Smurf: If you don't have the government enabling you to sit on the couch you'll do what your grandparents did and move to where the work is.  I hear the Dakotas and Texas are hiring.

You have read the Grapes of Wrath right?

Also they will do what your Grandparents did, steal, loot, riot and /or hang aristocrats


I thought my grandfather was a mechanic.

Man, he totally had me fooled.
 
2014-02-12 03:05:06 PM
Spouse works in marketing/IT as a W-2 contractor, and makes 5K a month after taxes. When her project ends in July, she's entitled to 2K a month for a year in unemployment benefits. However, we shell out nearly 2K a month in childcare, commuting and other work-related things are about 500 a month, so we're down about 500 bucks per month in total.

Works for us, kinda...
 
2014-02-12 03:05:39 PM
Lillian Humphrey of Baltimore has resorted to selling baby toys that her 1-year-old great-grandson has outgrown, asking $10 or $15 on Craigslist. It is the only money she has coming in these days. But there is still plenty of money going out the door - for her mortgage, gas and electric bills and for her osteoporosis medication. 

Wow, that must have been a hell of a lot of baby toys that you can live off for a while just from selling them second hand.
 
2014-02-12 03:05:44 PM

Gosling: Smeggy Smurf: If you don't have the government enabling you to sit on the couch you'll do what your grandparents did and move to where the work is.  I hear the Dakotas and Texas are hiring.

And if you can't afford the transportation to another state?


thumbs.dreamstime.com
 
2014-02-12 03:06:02 PM
Move in with relatives, who don't want you there but don't feel they can refuse you. Stand in line at food banks. Go to the library to use computers and internet access to look for jobs (sending out resumes that don't get a response). Sell your belongings and your car (if you had one). Take the bus or walk around to the local businesses to apply for work (and be told you have to apply on line). Go to interviews and never get called back. Re-write your resume for every job you apply to, hoping to maximize your chances. Lower your expectations. Lower your expectations. Lower. Run out of benefits.
Take a menial job for minimum wage at a fast food joint or as a cashier at a self serve gas station.
REPUBLICANS: See?! They're just lazy. They got a job right away.
 
2014-02-12 03:06:21 PM
"Wessita McKinley of Capitol Heights is unemployed and about to lose her jobless benefits. She runs a non-profit that among other things collects food for the working poor."

So she has a "job" running a non-profit AND she is collecting Unemployment
 
2014-02-12 03:06:48 PM

2KanZam: I used to dismiss the idea that these extended unemployement benefits keep people from working by allowing them to live off the gov't.

But I have a few (lazy) acquaintences whom have been laid off for some time now and "couldn't find a job anywhere"...well as soon as their benefits were cut recently, *POOF* they suddenly both came up with jobs!

Huh, whodathunkit? (seriously, I had no idea some people really were THAT lazy)


I'm guessing jobs that fail to use their developed skills and talents? The point of unemployment insurance is to reduce job immobility that sub-optimally utilizes skilled labor - in other words, keep smart people from getting stuck digging ditches for the rest of their lives.
 
2014-02-12 03:07:17 PM

ParallelUniverseParking: MyRandomName: North Carolina has already stopped long term unemployment... let's see how that is working... oh! Higher employment levels.

[i706.photobucket.com image 271x271]


static.ddmcdn.com
 
2014-02-12 03:07:48 PM

Smeggy Smurf: If you don't have the government enabling you to sit on the couch you'll do what your grandparents did and move to where the work is.  I hear the Dakotas and Texas are hiring.


My grandparents went where the work was. Unfortunately for my grandparents the work was in Buchenwald and it didn't pay very well at all.

Regardless, I don't know about the Dakotas, but Texas is "hiring" if you like short-term contract work for ~$25k / yr.
 
2014-02-12 03:08:16 PM
Q: How does crime happen???


Get ready for a big increase...
 
M-G
2014-02-12 03:11:16 PM
Another set of problems....  those like Ms. McKinley in TFA who are hustling are probably not reporting that income or paying taxes on it, including FICA.  So when they go to retire, their Social Security benefits will be reduced as well.
 
2014-02-12 03:11:56 PM

netgamer7k: Since we're in the business here in America of tossing rights and gaining rights, how about a right to income? That way everyone's got money, and that money being spent generates demand! And demand = jobs!


That's not as crazy (or unproposed or unprecedented) an idea as you seem to think.  It actually works, in place of or supplemental to traditional welfare.


davespa: So she has a "job" running a non-profit AND she is collecting Unemployment


Your point?  Presumably she draws no salary or other income from the not-for-profit.
 
2014-02-12 03:12:27 PM

2KanZam: I used to dismiss the idea that these extended unemployement benefits keep people from working by allowing them to live off the gov't.

But I have a few (lazy) acquaintences whom have been laid off for some time now and "couldn't find a job anywhere"...well as soon as their benefits were cut recently, *POOF* they suddenly both came up with jobs!

Huh, whodathunkit? (seriously, I had no idea some people really were THAT lazy)


Lazy? fark you.

I was on unemployment after I lost my engineering job in 2008 and once that ran out I ran right out and got a job too!  I taught drafting for 4 hours a day in a location that was an 1 hour drive away.  Then I got a job in a call center for 30% of my previous wage. I was barely able to pay my student debt, I nearly went bankrupt, and I had to move back in with my mother for 8 months.  It's a good thing that makes me lazy though because otherwise I might have had the energy to put a gun in my mouth.

The good news is that I got an engineering job in 2010 and  I'll be out from under the associated debts of my hiatus from earning a decent wage by 2015.  The thing is I'm aprivileged white male with an excellent family support structure and while I never asked for orreceived a single handout I knew that one would be forthcoming if I did ask.  I had the ability to fix my problems and it still nearly ruined me.  What about all the people who don't have the numerous advantages that I have?
 
2014-02-12 03:14:28 PM

GBB: [www.washingtonpost.com image 296x586]
Much like global warming, the trend is obvious, so surely it will be refuted.


1. Just saying "BLS data" doesn't say much. Is it using the same BLS data throughout, or is that one of those charts that goes from U3 to U6 without telling us when or why?
2. You mean the most recent recession - the worst since The Great Depression - is worse than the postwar boom period (the largest expansion of wealth and access to it in US history)?! Get the fark out of town.
3. So what you're saying is: there are more unemployed people than there have been in 70 years, so we should spend EVEN LESS money than we spend now making sure they can pay rent and gas bills to avoid further descent into poverty. Great plan; I'm sure everyone will just decide to be employed tomorrow.
 
2014-02-12 03:15:21 PM
Should be some pretty good deals on eBay right about now.
 
2014-02-12 03:15:30 PM

Crass and Jaded Mother Farker: All2morrowsparTs: Smeggy Smurf: If you don't have the government enabling you to sit on the couch you'll do what your grandparents did and move to where the work is.  I hear the Dakotas and Texas are hiring.

You have read the Grapes of Wrath right?

Also they will do what your Grandparents did, steal, loot, riot and /or hang aristocrats

I thought my grandfather was a mechanic.

Man, he totally had me fooled.


He probably hung aristocrats in his spare time.  You can't really make it a full-time job, or you run out of aristocrats too quickly.
 
2014-02-12 03:16:19 PM
They get off the couch, and get jobs. Studies show that time returning to work is directly related to how long unemployment benefits are. Why are economics so hard for liberals?
 
2014-02-12 03:17:32 PM

DarkSoulNoHope: 2KanZam: I used to dismiss the idea that these extended unemployement benefits keep people from working by allowing them to live off the gov't.

But I have a few (lazy) acquaintences whom have been laid off for some time now and "couldn't find a job anywhere"...well as soon as their benefits were cut recently, *POOF* they suddenly both came up with jobs!

Huh, whodathunkit? (seriously, I had no idea some people really were THAT lazy)

Yay! Jobs! Now, question, these fictional acquaintances of yours, did they find a job so fast in pay comparable or better than their old job or did they get a job so low in pay that it won't even cover basic needs?


Bet it pays better than unemployment. Bet it keeps them active. Bet it doesn't cost taxpayers as much. Bet it makes them better people.
 
2014-02-12 03:19:12 PM
I don't know how others are doing it, but I've been living off savings for going on 11 months now... I've applied for over 400 jobs and had maybe a dozen interviews - I've got another one tomorrow. Fingers crossed!
 
2014-02-12 03:19:47 PM

Thunderpipes: Bet it pays better than unemployment. Bet it keeps them active. Bet it doesn't cost taxpayers as much. Bet it makes them better people.


Are there no prisons?  Are there no workhouses?
 
2014-02-12 03:20:10 PM

2KanZam: I used to dismiss the idea that these extended unemployement benefits keep people from working by allowing them to live off the gov't.

But I have a few (lazy) acquaintences whom have been laid off for some time now and "couldn't find a job anywhere"...well as soon as their benefits were cut recently, *POOF* they suddenly both came up with jobs!

Huh, whodathunkit? (seriously, I had no idea some people really were THAT lazy)


Yeah- operative word here is  some people. Try to not assume shiat about people until you've walked a mile or so in their shoes.

/laid off months ago... applied for hundreds of jobs. A handful of interviews. No luck. I am now facing a move to a cheaper area where I'll be working part time in retail because in my field, I'm a dime a dozen
//hoping for better times
 
2014-02-12 03:24:35 PM

rogue49: Q: How does crime happen???

Get ready for a big increase...


My college professor said much the same thing: give the poor money or they will kill you.
I say, let them eat cake:
img.fark.net
 
2014-02-12 03:25:40 PM

DarkSoulNoHope: 2KanZam: I used to dismiss the idea that these extended unemployement benefits keep people from working by allowing them to live off the gov't.

But I have a few (lazy) acquaintences whom have been laid off for some time now and "couldn't find a job anywhere"...well as soon as their benefits were cut recently, *POOF* they suddenly both came up with jobs!

Huh, whodathunkit? (seriously, I had no idea some people really were THAT lazy)

Yay! Jobs! Now, question, these fictional acquaintances of yours, did they find a job so fast in pay comparable or better than their old job or did they get a job so low in pay that it won't even cover basic needs?


Pretty much, this.

I have spent my share of time being between contracts, and having to collect unemployment benefits.  My benefits were paying the max, which translates in real-world money to about $15/hr.  So, while looking for work, I couldn't take a position that would pay me less than that, because I would litterally be pissing away time that could be used to find a job that paid more than my benefits.

I don't know that that is true for everyone.  But, that was the situation for me.
 
2014-02-12 03:26:04 PM

2KanZam: Wendy's Chili: 2KanZam: I used to dismiss the idea that these extended unemployement benefits keep people from working by allowing them to live off the gov't.

But I have a few (lazy) acquaintences whom have been laid off for some time now and "couldn't find a job anywhere"...well as soon as their benefits were cut recently, *POOF* they suddenly both came up with jobs!

Huh, whodathunkit? (seriously, I had no idea some people really were THAT lazy)

What a compelling anecdote. I'm voting for Reagan!


I love how everyone is assuming I'm some conservative...This really did happen and it honestly surprised me.


The last time we were hiring we had a couple of applicants who asked to delay starting by a few weeks till their unemployment ran out. They wanted every last drop of free money.
 
2014-02-12 03:27:28 PM

postnobills: I don't know how others are doing it, but I've been living off savings for going on 11 months now... I've applied for over 400 jobs and had maybe a dozen interviews - I've got another one tomorrow. Fingers crossed!


Good luck!

/in same boat.
 
2014-02-12 03:27:45 PM
I thought they had shown the jobs they take are below their skill level jobs that they only take because they are desperate?
 
2014-02-12 03:29:29 PM
There certainly are people who are dicking off while collecting unemployment, but I think those people are few and far between.  a lot of people i know who have been on unemployment collect and bust their ass to find a real job as soon as humanly possible.  i only know, maybe 2 people, who have been collecting unemployment for a while and only look for work when the looming threat of their unemployment ending comes up.
 
2014-02-12 03:32:49 PM

meat0918: I thought they had shown the jobs they take are below their skill level jobs that they only take because they are desperate?


Is the argument that it's better in aggregate to have people idle than to take productive, if inferior, jobs?
 
2014-02-12 03:32:49 PM

cgraves67: The last time we were hiring we had a couple of applicants who asked to delay starting by a few weeks till their unemployment ran out. They wanted every last drop of free money.


Then you should rescind the offers, because they're dumb for two reasons:
1. Wages pay more than UI. Unless what you were offering was 75% of their last paycheck, they literally threw money away staying on unemployment.
2. Income taxes are higher on UI than on income, since you're paying the full 10.2% of FICA.

Perhaps they wanted two more weeks of "freedom" before starting work? Personally, I was hurting for cash (even asked to start a week early), but I've known of new hires who waited for some life event to happen before starting a new job.
 
2014-02-12 03:35:05 PM

cgraves67: 2KanZam: Wendy's Chili: 2KanZam: I used to dismiss the idea that these extended unemployement benefits keep people from working by allowing them to live off the gov't.

But I have a few (lazy) acquaintences whom have been laid off for some time now and "couldn't find a job anywhere"...well as soon as their benefits were cut recently, *POOF* they suddenly both came up with jobs!

Huh, whodathunkit? (seriously, I had no idea some people really were THAT lazy)

What a compelling anecdote. I'm voting for Reagan!


I love how everyone is assuming I'm some conservative...This really did happen and it honestly surprised me.

The last time we were hiring we had a couple of applicants who asked to delay starting by a few weeks till their unemployment ran out. They wanted every last drop of free money.


Or maybe they didn't want a break in cash flow due to recurring costs they couldn't absorb.
 
2014-02-12 03:35:59 PM

YixilTesiphon: meat0918: I thought they had shown the jobs they take are below their skill level jobs that they only take because they are desperate?

Is the argument that it's better in aggregate to have people idle than to take productive, if inferior, jobs?


It's better to have people take jobs according to their skill level, and failing that, keep them from hitting complete bottom so we don't destabilize society through rising crime and hopelessness.

If you have high skilled people in low skilled jobs, those low skilled people have no jobs.  A guy with an engineering degree shouldn't be working as a burger flipper.

Also, raise the minimum wage if you're expecting people that made $30 hour before losing their jobs to take a minimum wage one to make ends meet, assuming that McDonald's would hire him in the first place.
 
2014-02-12 03:39:47 PM

meat0918: A guy with an engineering degree shouldn't be working as a burger flipper.


What if nobody wants to employ him to be an engineer?
 
2014-02-12 03:42:38 PM
Thunderpipes:
Yay! Jobs! Now, question, these fictional acquaintances of yours, did they find a job so fast in pay comparable or better than their old job or did they get a job so low in pay that it won't even cover basic needs?

Bet it pays better than unemployment. Bet it keeps them active. Bet it doesn't cost taxpayers as much. Bet it makes them better people.


Unemployment pays 2/3 of your previous wages. At 20$/hour, that's a little over 13$/hour.
Minimum wage pays what, 8$/hour?

Keeps them active? How? By going onto a computer and putting in job applications online all day? Sounds like the opposite of active.

And how in the world would it make them better people? By learning to live with less, by starving, by having to give up on the American Dream?
How do you know that will work in that way? Is it because you have so few brain cells?
 
2014-02-12 03:43:55 PM
They go to Florida and have their blankets taken away.
 
2014-02-12 03:44:01 PM

MyRandomName: North Carolina has already stopped long term unemployment... let's see how that is working... oh! Higher employment levels.



Employment levels which are measured by the number of people who are not on unemployment .........
 
2014-02-12 03:45:27 PM
cgraves67:

The last time we were hiring we had a couple of applicants who asked to delay starting by a few weeks till their unemployment ran out. They wanted every last drop of free money.

Pro tip: Pay a wage higher than unemployment and you won't have this 'problem'.
 
2014-02-12 03:45:49 PM

durbnpoisn: DarkSoulNoHope: 2KanZam: I used to dismiss the idea that these extended unemployement benefits keep people from working by allowing them to live off the gov't.

But I have a few (lazy) acquaintences whom have been laid off for some time now and "couldn't find a job anywhere"...well as soon as their benefits were cut recently, *POOF* they suddenly both came up with jobs!

Huh, whodathunkit? (seriously, I had no idea some people really were THAT lazy)

Yay! Jobs! Now, question, these fictional acquaintances of yours, did they find a job so fast in pay comparable or better than their old job or did they get a job so low in pay that it won't even cover basic needs?

Pretty much, this.

I have spent my share of time being between contracts, and having to collect unemployment benefits.  My benefits were paying the max, which translates in real-world money to about $15/hr.  So, while looking for work, I couldn't take a position that would pay me less than that, because I would litterally be pissing away time that could be used to find a job that paid more than my benefits.

I don't know that that is true for everyone.  But, that was the situation for me.


You know you can't refuse work while on unemplyoment, legally speaking, right?

I'm assuming you mean you can't waste your time looking for lower paying jobs...

But I have to point this out: what gets you a job the fastest? Getting ANY other job, and making a good reference for yourself.
 
2014-02-12 03:46:11 PM
Get a Job?
 
2014-02-12 03:47:24 PM

YixilTesiphon: meat0918: A guy with an engineering degree shouldn't be working as a burger flipper.

What if nobody wants to employ him to be an engineer?


It's his fault, then. The market is perfect and has opportunities for everybody who is not a lazy farking piece of shiat. It's always your fault. Always. Your. Fault. Always. Always. Always.

What rank bullshiat.

 [radicalunjobbing.files.wordpress.com image 452x433]

Bucky Fuller was and is right. We have more people working than we need because everyone has to work for HIMSELF. You can't pitch in for the general wellbeing.

But the reason is not Mathusian-Darwinian so much as it is carefully cultivated resentment on the part of the White, conservative, lower middle class, obeying the dictates foisted on them by the White, conservative upper class.

In other words, you have to work because people hate you if you don't.
 
2014-02-12 03:47:58 PM

tlars699: durbnpoisn: DarkSoulNoHope: 2KanZam: I used to dismiss the idea that these extended unemployement benefits keep people from working by allowing them to live off the gov't.

But I have a few (lazy) acquaintences whom have been laid off for some time now and "couldn't find a job anywhere"...well as soon as their benefits were cut recently, *POOF* they suddenly both came up with jobs!

Huh, whodathunkit? (seriously, I had no idea some people really were THAT lazy)

Yay! Jobs! Now, question, these fictional acquaintances of yours, did they find a job so fast in pay comparable or better than their old job or did they get a job so low in pay that it won't even cover basic needs?

Pretty much, this.

I have spent my share of time being between contracts, and having to collect unemployment benefits.  My benefits were paying the max, which translates in real-world money to about $15/hr.  So, while looking for work, I couldn't take a position that would pay me less than that, because I would litterally be pissing away time that could be used to find a job that paid more than my benefits.

I don't know that that is true for everyone.  But, that was the situation for me.

You know you can't refuse work while on unemplyoment, legally speaking, right?

I'm assuming you mean you can't waste your time looking for lower paying jobs...

But I have to point this out: what gets you a job the fastest? Getting ANY other job, and making a good reference for yourself.


Ummmm, no.
 
2014-02-12 03:48:06 PM
I couldn't find a job in my own field, so I started my own business, since I got really tired of the idea of being beholden to someone for employment. I resolved that day to never have a boss again, and have been quite happy with the results.

That being said, I make about 25% of what I did before my job moved out of town, but I've only been up and running for 18 months or so, so I'm not too concerned. Still, I love what I do, I love going to work and working, but have been focused much more on building contacts and contracts than doing the actual work my business requires.
 
2014-02-12 03:48:21 PM

YixilTesiphon: meat0918: A guy with an engineering degree shouldn't be working as a burger flipper.

What if nobody wants to employ him to be an engineer?


He'll find something, but I know if I was a manager hiring for a low skill job, I would not hire an engineer for that position.
 
2014-02-12 03:48:31 PM
 
2014-02-12 03:48:52 PM

bikerific: [img.fark.net image 356x480]


Friend of mine posted this on facebook.

Because obviously unemployed people drinking on the stoop are a big voting demographic.



A friend of mine did the same.  Oddly enough she's an accountant so she probably does more sitting then the stoop sitting voter pictured.

/I just got my welfare handout.
//By welfare handout I mean the hidden welfare of home ownership tax benefits.
 
2014-02-12 03:50:31 PM

YixilTesiphon: meat0918: A guy with an engineering degree shouldn't be working as a burger flipper.

What if nobody wants to employ him to be an engineer?


Why would they when we now have the fad of 'employing' college-educated interns to do for free jobs that paid pretty well 10 years ago?

And why would anyone hire the engineer at a lower wage anyway, considering they should realistically expect him to vanish as soon as he finds a job that pays him in accordance with his skills?
 
2014-02-12 03:50:46 PM
Ask any of these fellows:
www.biography.com
ellabakercenter.org
retired.talkingpointsmemo.com
 
2014-02-12 03:50:48 PM
2KanZam:  I love how everyone is assuming I'm some conservative...This really did happen and it honestly surprised me.

Nothing triggers a response on Fark like presenting anecdotes as data.  I didn't think that's what you were doing, but I could see how it could be taken that way.

You're not wrong about people like your friends - they are part of the problem.  How do you extend benefits for people who's time society has decided isn't worth much without also extending them for people who just aren't motivated.

At some point, perhaps due to outsourcing but also due to productivity increases, we will reach a scenario where there are just far fewer jobs than there are people in the labor pool.  I'm not sure if we'll be willing to find practical answers for that problem; Americans really don't want to give up the idea that work is the key to everything for nearly everybody.   (Nor do we seem to like the idea of paying min. wage to people who pick fruit - so even the jobs we do have might not help the problem.)

/soylent green time?
 
2014-02-12 03:51:22 PM

tlars699: durbnpoisn: DarkSoulNoHope: 2KanZam: I used to dismiss the idea that these extended unemployement benefits keep people from working by allowing them to live off the gov't.

But I have a few (lazy) acquaintences whom have been laid off for some time now and "couldn't find a job anywhere"...well as soon as their benefits were cut recently, *POOF* they suddenly both came up with jobs!

Huh, whodathunkit? (seriously, I had no idea some people really were THAT lazy)

Yay! Jobs! Now, question, these fictional acquaintances of yours, did they find a job so fast in pay comparable or better than their old job or did they get a job so low in pay that it won't even cover basic needs?

Pretty much, this.

I have spent my share of time being between contracts, and having to collect unemployment benefits.  My benefits were paying the max, which translates in real-world money to about $15/hr.  So, while looking for work, I couldn't take a position that would pay me less than that, because I would litterally be pissing away time that could be used to find a job that paid more than my benefits.

I don't know that that is true for everyone.  But, that was the situation for me.

You know you can't refuse work while on unemplyoment, legally speaking, right?

I'm assuming you mean you can't waste your time looking for lower paying jobs...

But I have to point this out: what gets you a job the fastest? Getting ANY other job, and making a good reference for yourself.


I can see it now. ..

"Well yes I have lots of experience in improving efficiency through leveraging technology.  Call my Reference Bill Swanson, he'll tell you how I used noise cancelling headphones to shut out distractions and improve my best time for constructing a bag mac by a whole second."

"At my current job I answer phone calls from idiot parents who are upset about the costs of their kids text messaging constantly despite numerous noted warnings from other sales reps that they should either block messaging or get a plan that includes messaging so I think i'm fully capable of negotiating the new union contract for your company."
 
2014-02-12 03:52:59 PM

meat0918: I thought they had shown the jobs they take are below their skill level jobs that they only take because they are desperate?


You are correct sir, but that does not fit the conservative dialogue.
 
2014-02-12 03:54:29 PM

YixilTesiphon: meat0918: A guy with an engineering degree shouldn't be working as a burger flipper.

What if nobody wants to employ him to be an engineer?


Then he can't pay his student loans back.
 
2014-02-12 03:54:46 PM

Catlenfell: There are no easy answers. Anyone who says that they have one is trying to sell you something.


CAPITALISM!!!
 
2014-02-12 03:56:58 PM

meat0918: YixilTesiphon: meat0918: I thought they had shown the jobs they take are below their skill level jobs that they only take because they are desperate?

Is the argument that it's better in aggregate to have people idle than to take productive, if inferior, jobs?

It's better to have people take jobs according to their skill level, and failing that, keep them from hitting complete bottom so we don't destabilize society through rising crime and hopelessness.

If you have high skilled people in low skilled jobs, those low skilled people have no jobs.  A guy with an engineering degree shouldn't be working as a burger flipper.

Also, raise the minimum wage if you're expecting people that made $30 hour before losing their jobs to take a minimum wage one to make ends meet, assuming that McDonald's would hire him in the first place.


So, you cannot look for a job while you have one? You do realize, employers don't like people who spend long times on unemployment?

Stay classy, libs. But heh, now you can focus on your painting, according to Pelosi.
 
2014-02-12 03:59:39 PM

YixilTesiphon: meat0918: A guy with an engineering degree shouldn't be working as a burger flipper.

What if nobody wants to employ him to be an engineer?


You guys talk about jobs as if they go to the highest educated bidder.  As someone with a degree that had to look for that kind of work for a while I'm here to tell you....  THEY DON'T WANT YOU.

I was told by a few people they liked my hustle and work ethic, they just couldn't justify hiring someone with a degree who could switch jobs down the road when they could instead hire a single parent struggling to make ends meet.  That second candidate could truly need that job for the rest of their life.

People who hire for burger flipping jobs hate turnover.  They avoid 'flight risks' whenever possible.
 
2014-02-12 04:01:05 PM

DarkSoulNoHope: 2KanZam: I used to dismiss the idea that these extended unemployement benefits keep people from working by allowing them to live off the gov't.

But I have a few (lazy) acquaintences whom have been laid off for some time now and "couldn't find a job anywhere"...well as soon as their benefits were cut recently, *POOF* they suddenly both came up with jobs!

Huh, whodathunkit? (seriously, I had no idea some people really were THAT lazy)

Yay! Jobs! Now, question, these fictional acquaintances of yours, did they find a job so fast in pay comparable or better than their old job or did they get a job so low in pay that it won't even cover basic needs?


You think people are are fabricating anecdotes, but this is really happening.  It was even in the segments on MSNBC, talking about long-term benefits being terminated, presumably with the intention of increasing support.

A father of two, project manager, out of work for 2 years. He was worried because if they cut his benefits, he might even have to get a job doing MANUAL LABOR!

Of course it's not the job you wish for. I was out of work for 13 weeks in 2002 after losing my job making $72,000 a year and unable to find a job that was "up to my standards."

Do you know what I did when benefits ran out? I took a job paying $49,000 a year that I would have called "beneath me" a few weeks earlier.
 
2014-02-12 04:01:14 PM

fat_free: tlars699: durbnpoisn: DarkSoulNoHope: 2KanZam: I used to dismiss the idea that these extended unemployement benefits keep people from working by allowing them to live off the gov't.

But I have a few (lazy) acquaintences whom have been laid off for some time now and "couldn't find a job anywhere"...well as soon as their benefits were cut recently, *POOF* they suddenly both came up with jobs!

Huh, whodathunkit? (seriously, I had no idea some people really were THAT lazy)

Yay! Jobs! Now, question, these fictional acquaintances of yours, did they find a job so fast in pay comparable or better than their old job or did they get a job so low in pay that it won't even cover basic needs?

Pretty much, this.

I have spent my share of time being between contracts, and having to collect unemployment benefits.  My benefits were paying the max, which translates in real-world money to about $15/hr.  So, while looking for work, I couldn't take a position that would pay me less than that, because I would litterally be pissing away time that could be used to find a job that paid more than my benefits.

I don't know that that is true for everyone.  But, that was the situation for me.

You know you can't refuse work while on unemplyoment, legally speaking, right?

I'm assuming you mean you can't waste your time looking for lower paying jobs...

But I have to point this out: what gets you a job the fastest? Getting ANY other job, and making a good reference for yourself.

Ummmm, no.


When you are on unemployment you have to report in every week(at least we do here in WI).

You are required to answer several questions that you are required to answer truthfully; otherwise, if found out, you could have all of you benefits revoked and/or may have to pay some of them back.

One of these questions is "Have you refused any work that offers pay for hours worked this week?"
If you have, you don't qualify for benefits that week.

And for the other part: Yes. It has been shown in multiple studies: the longer you are on only unemployment, the less desirable you appear to companies. If you otherwise keep occupied, you clearly are amibitious/go-getting/positive person.

Who doesn't know this?
 
2014-02-12 04:05:57 PM

Egoy3k: tlars699: durbnpoisn: DarkSoulNoHope: 2KanZam: I used to dismiss the idea that these extended unemployement benefits keep people from working by allowing them to live off the gov't.

But I have a few (lazy) acquaintences whom have been laid off for some time now and "couldn't find a job anywhere"...well as soon as their benefits were cut recently, *POOF* they suddenly both came up with jobs!

Huh, whodathunkit? (seriously, I had no idea some people really were THAT lazy)

Yay! Jobs! Now, question, these fictional acquaintances of yours, did they find a job so fast in pay comparable or better than their old job or did they get a job so low in pay that it won't even cover basic needs?

Pretty much, this.

I have spent my share of time being between contracts, and having to collect unemployment benefits.  My benefits were paying the max, which translates in real-world money to about $15/hr.  So, while looking for work, I couldn't take a position that would pay me less than that, because I would litterally be pissing away time that could be used to find a job that paid more than my benefits.

I don't know that that is true for everyone.  But, that was the situation for me.

You know you can't refuse work while on unemplyoment, legally speaking, right?

I'm assuming you mean you can't waste your time looking for lower paying jobs...

But I have to point this out: what gets you a job the fastest? Getting ANY other job, and making a good reference for yourself.

I can see it now. ..

"Well yes I have lots of experience in improving efficiency through leveraging technology.  Call my Reference Bill Swanson, he'll tell you how I used noise cancelling headphones to shut out distractions and improve my best time for constructing a bag mac by a whole second."

"At my current job I answer phone calls from idiot parents who are upset about the costs of their kids text messaging constantly despite numerous noted warnings from other sales reps that they should either block messaging ...


You know there are other jobs aside from Burger flipper. And why make telemarketing/customer service out to be so negative? It usually pays more than min wage, and if you've got good people skills/positive attitude it can really pay off in the reference dept.
Also, working as a telemarketer/customer service can get you benefits to last you in the meantime, while still working on finding a higher level job.
 
2014-02-12 04:07:32 PM

rogue49: Q: How does crime happen???


Get ready for a big increase...


It really doesn't work that way.  In 2010, when things were very bad, violent crime fell 12%.  You would expect crime to have skyrocketed in the Great Depression, but it didn't.
 
2014-02-12 04:08:41 PM

cgraves67: The last time we were hiring we had a couple of applicants who asked to delay starting by a few weeks till their unemployment ran out. They wanted every last drop of free money.


Considering they pay into unemployment, it's hardly free money.
 
2014-02-12 04:09:45 PM

tlars699: Thunderpipes:
Yay! Jobs! Now, question, these fictional acquaintances of yours, did they find a job so fast in pay comparable or better than their old job or did they get a job so low in pay that it won't even cover basic needs?

Bet it pays better than unemployment. Bet it keeps them active. Bet it doesn't cost taxpayers as much. Bet it makes them better people.

Unemployment pays 2/3 of your previous wages. At 20$/hour, that's a little over 13$/hour.
Minimum wage pays what, 8$/hour?

Keeps them active? How? By going onto a computer and putting in job applications online all day? Sounds like the opposite of active.

And how in the world would it make them better people? By learning to live with less, by starving, by having to give up on the American Dream?
How do you know that will work in that way? Is it because you have so few brain cells?


No it doesn't. You have no idea what you are talking about. I spent 4 months on unemployment and it paid $250/wk minus taxes. That is the maximum that anyone could be paid. The position I got downsized out of paid $48k, so unemployment paid me a bit over 1/4 of my working salary. Maybe it is 2/3 for people already making bupkis, but the discussion here was about skilled people that can perform much higher paying jobs that need time to find another one.
 
2014-02-12 04:11:20 PM

keypusher: rogue49: Q: How does crime happen???


Get ready for a big increase...

It really doesn't work that way.  In 2010, when things were very bad, violent crime fell 12%.  You would expect crime to have skyrocketed in the Great Depression, but it didn't.


How does violent crime provide income?

Expect more fraud, theft, and trafficking.
 
2014-02-12 04:12:19 PM

wildcardjack: [radicalunjobbing.files.wordpress.com image 452x433]


What if they've dropped out of school and are too dumb to read?
 
2014-02-12 04:13:01 PM

tlars699: So, while looking for work, I couldn't take a position that would pay me less than that, because I would litterally be pissing away time that could be used to find a job that paid more than my benefits.

I don't know that that is true for everyone.  But, that was the situation for me.


You know you can't refuse work while on unemplyoment, legally speaking, right?


You just don't apply for the jobs that are below what you're looking for when you're in that boat.
 
2014-02-12 04:15:35 PM
That tit should have been allowed to dry up a long time ago. THe unemployment rate would not still be as high as it is now. The area where I'm at it is only 4% or 4.3% and was only at 6% during the worst of the recession, so we were fortunate.
 
2014-02-12 04:15:46 PM

K.B.O. Winston: YixilTesiphon: meat0918: A guy with an engineering degree shouldn't be working as a burger flipper.

What if nobody wants to employ him to be an engineer?

You guys talk about jobs as if they go to the highest educated bidder.  As someone with a degree that had to look for that kind of work for a while I'm here to tell you....  THEY DON'T WANT YOU.

I was told by a few people they liked my hustle and work ethic, they just couldn't justify hiring someone with a degree who could switch jobs down the road when they could instead hire a single parent struggling to make ends meet.  That second candidate could truly need that job for the rest of their life.

People who hire for burger flipping jobs hate turnover.  They avoid 'flight risks' whenever possible.


You're right! For some reason they think that 1. High turnover rates mean un-happy inefficient employees
2. That it costs more money for the company to train them, and then have to train another person in 3 months, that the 0.25$/hour raise the person will get in the 3 months time.

They may be right, but it seems a bit outdated mode of hiring for that type of job, IMO.

What I'm talking about is going out and getting the telemarketing job, or getting a job a bit outside your field with slightly less pay, while still applying to other jobs.

If nothing else, you may find something you enjoy to do, and can negotiate for higher pay by having two companies bid to get/keep you.

Still think they shouldn't cut off Unemployment completely. Maybe offer a different objective? Such as after 40 weeks of unemployment, a disbursement of moving costs? Then you can't claim it on your taxes, but you get the money when you need to use it.
 
2014-02-12 04:16:14 PM

tlars699: durbnpoisn: DarkSoulNoHope: 2KanZam: I used to dismiss the idea that these extended unemployement benefits keep people from working by allowing them to live off the gov't.

But I have a few (lazy) acquaintences whom have been laid off for some time now and "couldn't find a job anywhere"...well as soon as their benefits were cut recently, *POOF* they suddenly both came up with jobs!

Huh, whodathunkit? (seriously, I had no idea some people really were THAT lazy)

Yay! Jobs! Now, question, these fictional acquaintances of yours, did they find a job so fast in pay comparable or better than their old job or did they get a job so low in pay that it won't even cover basic needs?

Pretty much, this.

I have spent my share of time being between contracts, and having to collect unemployment benefits.  My benefits were paying the max, which translates in real-world money to about $15/hr.  So, while looking for work, I couldn't take a position that would pay me less than that, because I would litterally be pissing away time that could be used to find a job that paid more than my benefits.

I don't know that that is true for everyone.  But, that was the situation for me.

You know you can't refuse work while on unemplyoment, legally speaking, right?

I'm assuming you mean you can't waste your time looking for lower paying jobs...

But I have to point this out: what gets you a job the fastest? Getting ANY other job, and making a good reference for yourself.


I never once said that I refused work.  I would look at the payscale before even trying for the job.  That is not to say that I wasn't looking.
And, yeah, here in NJ we have to prove we are looking for work too.  They rarely ask you to actually provide a list.  But I tracked every single person I talked to, and what the result was.  I broke no rules whatsoever.
 
2014-02-12 04:17:16 PM

netgamer7k: Since we're in the business here in America of tossing rights and gaining rights, how about a right to income? That way everyone's got money, and that money being spent generates demand! And demand = jobs!


Because that income comes from other people from whom it was just stolen?  Yeah, makework, but that's still unnecessary labor that costs money we don't have.

If you want to say "Hey, let's do that because it's a good idea," we can chat.  Depending on implementation, I'm not against it.  In fact, given that the natural idea of   But there's no such thing as a right to income.  Because that implies central planning.  And that's both evil and incapable of working properly.

/Right generally implies that having it has 0 cost to other people.  Or it's a right of people against the government.
 
2014-02-12 04:20:27 PM

madgonad: tlars699: Thunderpipes:
Yay! Jobs! Now, question, these fictional acquaintances of yours, did they find a job so fast in pay comparable or better than their old job or did they get a job so low in pay that it won't even cover basic needs?

Bet it pays better than unemployment. Bet it keeps them active. Bet it doesn't cost taxpayers as much. Bet it makes them better people.

Unemployment pays 2/3 of your previous wages. At 20$/hour, that's a little over 13$/hour.
Minimum wage pays what, 8$/hour?

Keeps them active? How? By going onto a computer and putting in job applications online all day? Sounds like the opposite of active.

And how in the world would it make them better people? By learning to live with less, by starving, by having to give up on the American Dream?
How do you know that will work in that way? Is it because you have so few brain cells?

No it doesn't. You have no idea what you are talking about. I spent 4 months on unemployment and it paid $250/wk minus taxes. That is the maximum that anyone could be paid. The position I got downsized out of paid $48k, so unemployment paid me a bit over 1/4 of my working salary. Maybe it is 2/3 for people already making bupkis, but the discussion here was about skilled people that can perform much higher paying jobs that need time to find another one.


Do you live in WI?
Maybe my knowledge doesn't apply to you. OR MAYBE it is up to 2/3 of what you were previously making OR 250$, whichever is lower.
I thought the discussion was about how good or bad it will be for the people who have their unemployment benefits cut, regardless of position, but related to how long they are on unemployment.

Also, if you only are making 250/wk on unemployment, methinks you can get better pay than that if you just let your ego deflate a little bit.
 
2014-02-12 04:20:51 PM
Most cities/towns have one or tow McDonald's. I am guessing they, on average have 40-50 employees. So where do the other 1000 laid off people in town work?
 
2014-02-12 04:25:10 PM
Thunderpipes - So, you cannot look for a job while you have one?

Every single person I know who was fired for crappy/unusual/stupid reasons were actually canned because they were caught looking for other jobs. So, absolutely no way would I hunt for a job while already employed in this economy.

Thunderpipes - Stay classy, libs

Stay deluded, cons
/'cons'.... what an apropos nickname...

tlars699 - If you otherwise keep occupied, you clearly are amibitious/go-getting/positive someone who shows they are perfectly willing to be treated like a sub-human serf and willing to kiss any insecure employer's ass as long as they toss a few coins in their general direction.

FTFY

/who would want to be like that, I wonder...
 
2014-02-12 04:25:34 PM

Pick: Most cities/towns have one or tow McDonald's. I am guessing they, on average have 40-50 employees. So where do the other 1000 laid off people in town work?


Burger King?
 
2014-02-12 04:26:09 PM

Pangea: tlars699: So, while looking for work, I couldn't take a position that would pay me less than that, because I would litterally be pissing away time that could be used to find a job that paid more than my benefits.

I don't know that that is true for everyone.  But, that was the situation for me.


You know you can't refuse work while on unemplyoment, legally speaking, right?

You just don't apply for the jobs that are below what you're looking for when you're in that boat.


durbnpoisn: tlars699: durbnpoisn: DarkSoulNoHope: 2KanZam: I used to dismiss the idea that these extended unemployement benefits keep people from working by allowing them to live off the gov't.

But I have a few (lazy) acquaintences whom have been laid off for some time now and "couldn't find a job anywhere"...well as soon as their benefits were cut recently, *POOF* they suddenly both came up with jobs!

Huh, whodathunkit? (seriously, I had no idea some people really were THAT lazy)

Yay! Jobs! Now, question, these fictional acquaintances of yours, did they find a job so fast in pay comparable or better than their old job or did they get a job so low in pay that it won't even cover basic needs?

Pretty much, this.

I have spent my share of time being between contracts, and having to collect unemployment benefits.  My benefits were paying the max, which translates in real-world money to about $15/hr.  So, while looking for work, I couldn't take a position that would pay me less than that, because I would litterally be pissing away time that could be used to find a job that paid more than my benefits.

I don't know that that is true for everyone.  But, that was the situation for me.

You know you can't refuse work while on unemplyoment, legally speaking, right?

I'm assuming you mean you can't waste your time looking for lower paying jobs...

But I have to point this out: what gets you a job the fastest? Getting ANY other job, and making a good reference for yourself.

I never once said that I refused work.  I would look at the payscale before even trying for the job.  That is not to say that I wasn't looking.
And, yeah, here in NJ we have to prove we are looking for work too.  They rarely ask you to actually provide a list.  But I tracked every single person I talked to, and what the result was.  I broke no rules whatsoever.


I figured as much, and put that in my previous post as my operating assumption.


And they don't really audit too often in WI either. I kept track as well when I was on it, and then I went back to school to finish my degree.

When can you no longer get unemployment? When you graduate from college, even having to get fired from a job as a tutor, because you're no longer technically a student.

I also could have implied "refused work" from "couldn't take a ___ position", because I'm a tricksy hobbit. But since I don't work for the gov't, it doesn't really matter to me. :)
 
2014-02-12 04:31:04 PM

Smeggy Smurf: If you don't have the government enabling you to sit on the couch you'll do what your grandparents did and move to where the work is.  I hear the Dakotas and Texas are hiring.


The lady in the article was hoping for a job that pays $10.00/hour.  No one should have to move to another state to get a measly $10.00/hour job.
 
2014-02-12 04:33:24 PM

payattention: Thunderpipes - So, you cannot look for a job while you have one?

Every single person I know who was fired for crappy/unusual/stupid reasons were actually canned because they were caught looking for other jobs. So, absolutely no way would I hunt for a job while already employed in this economy.

tlars699 fixed statement response:
/who would want has to be like that, I wonder...


Want? Nobody really.
Has to be? Someone who has to support two small children?

And the previous statement is against the law, I think. Harrassment/retaliation? IANAL, so if you are, please help me out.
I mean if you can prove the trumped up reasons are in fact trumped up?

Also, if you're looking for an alternate job you 1. Don't list references from anyone in your current employment situation. You keep in contact with outside references, and use those.
2. Don't tell anyone about looking for alternate employment, aside from your spousal unit who doesn't work for the company.
3. DON"T LOOK FOR OTHER JOBS ONLINE WHILE AT YOUR CURRENT JOB.

Oy vei.
 
2014-02-12 04:34:20 PM

tlars699: You know there are other jobs aside from Burger flipper. And why make telemarketing/customer service out to be so negative? It usually pays more than min wage, and if you've got good people skills/positive attitude it can really pay off in the reference dept.
Also, working as a telemarketer/customer service can get you benefits to last you in the meantime, while still working on finding a higher level job.


See my earlier post, I do know that the benefits and money help. I lived it. If you think that my time in cubical land had anything to do with getting my current job though, you are mistaken.  I don't put irrelevant work on my resume so my current employer had no idea what I was doing until they asked in an interview and I told them.  They then asked another question because they didn't care about non-engineering work. Since they were hiring me as an engineer.

Also most low wage employers don't trust their regional HR reps enough to let them give references and have a no references policy. So that part about getting references in your OP was incorrect as well.
 
2014-02-12 04:35:52 PM
img.fark.net

The disintegration of collecting as a cultural practice is comparable with the realization of the literary canon. The assertion of commodified objects may be parsed as the marketing of (dis)simulation.

/I created this message with a random word generator.
//Can I be Buckminster Fuller now?
 
2014-02-12 04:38:48 PM

Crass and Jaded Mother Farker: All2morrowsparTs: Smeggy Smurf: If you don't have the government enabling you to sit on the couch you'll do what your grandparents did and move to where the work is.  I hear the Dakotas and Texas are hiring.

You have read the Grapes of Wrath right?

Also they will do what your Grandparents did, steal, loot, riot and /or hang aristocrats

I thought my grandfather was a mechanic.



My grandfather was a mechanic, too.  His wife (my grandmother) was a stay-at-home mom.

You know, maybe losing unemployment benefits wouldn't be so painful if all those stay-at-home moms out there would get jobs?
 
2014-02-12 04:39:42 PM
Well if you deny people a visible means of support, it seems inevitable that they will turn to an invisible means of support, invisible usually meaning not-legal.

Guess what, if your government suddenly found itself with no need to pay out any sort of social support, you'd still get exactly zero paid back to you from your taxes. Once the government has an idea of the taxation you will bear, it will keep taking it from you, it might just channel it in a different direction.

So considering you get nothing back from reducing support to those in unfortunate circumstances, and that society might be a little less pleasant for you when those in unfortunate circumstances turn to nefarious methods to just stay alive, due to lack of support, why on earth are people so caught up in trying to make the people at the bottom of the social scale suffer even more?
 
2014-02-12 04:39:59 PM

Egoy3k: tlars699: You know there are other jobs aside from Burger flipper. And why make telemarketing/customer service out to be so negative? It usually pays more than min wage, and if you've got good people skills/positive attitude it can really pay off in the reference dept.
Also, working as a telemarketer/customer service can get you benefits to last you in the meantime, while still working on finding a higher level job.

See my earlier post, I do know that the benefits and money help. I lived it. If you think that my time in cubical land had anything to do with getting my current job though, you are mistaken.  I don't put irrelevant work on my resume so my current employer had no idea what I was doing until they asked in an interview and I told them.  They then asked another question because they didn't care about non-engineering work. Since they were hiring me as an engineer.

Also most low wage employers don't trust their regional HR reps enough to let them give references and have a no references policy. So that part about getting references in your OP was incorrect as well.


This(bolded) is neat; but in comparison to any other engineer who hadn't been otherwise employed in the meantime, do you think that maybe you would be the more desirable candidate?

As for the latter part, that may be how it worked for your company, but others that I have worked for seem to be just fine with it. I suppose it depends on what company, and who is in charge of the HR dept. You also don't have to get a reference from the HR dept. You could get a reference from another employee of the company.

Also, I posted in an alternate post that while employed at one company(A), and you're looking for outside work(B), to do your best to ensure that Company A does not cross paths with Company B until Company B offers a sure thing.

Then the negotiations begin. >XD
 
2014-02-12 04:40:25 PM

Egoy3k: Also most low wage employers don't trust their regional HR reps enough to let them give references and have a no references policy. So that part about getting references in your OP was incorrect as well.


Honestly, the entire concept of 'references' is dead virtually anywhere that has a formal HR department.  I don't care if it was part-time at Sonic or a salaried software engineer at Oracle, for 99% of businesses the policy is to answer a reference call with "Joe Smith was an employee from July 2008 to January 2014. Thank you for calling. click"
 
2014-02-12 04:42:06 PM

FizixJunkee: Crass and Jaded Mother Farker: All2morrowsparTs: Smeggy Smurf: If you don't have the government enabling you to sit on the couch you'll do what your grandparents did and move to where the work is.  I hear the Dakotas and Texas are hiring.

You have read the Grapes of Wrath right?

Also they will do what your Grandparents did, steal, loot, riot and /or hang aristocrats

I thought my grandfather was a mechanic.


My grandfather was a mechanic, too.  His wife (my grandmother) was a stay-at-home mom.

You know, maybe losing unemployment benefits wouldn't be so painful if all those stay-at-home moms out there would get jobs?


They already did. Hence women bringing home more and more bacon as the years go by. It also helps that more and more girls have college degrees. :)
 
2014-02-12 04:43:30 PM

Thunderpipes: meat0918: YixilTesiphon: meat0918: I thought they had shown the jobs they take are below their skill level jobs that they only take because they are desperate?

Is the argument that it's better in aggregate to have people idle than to take productive, if inferior, jobs?

It's better to have people take jobs according to their skill level, and failing that, keep them from hitting complete bottom so we don't destabilize society through rising crime and hopelessness.

If you have high skilled people in low skilled jobs, those low skilled people have no jobs.  A guy with an engineering degree shouldn't be working as a burger flipper.

Also, raise the minimum wage if you're expecting people that made $30 hour before losing their jobs to take a minimum wage one to make ends meet, assuming that McDonald's would hire him in the first place.

So, you cannot look for a job while you have one? You do realize, employers don't like people who spend long times on unemployment?

Stay classy, libs. But heh, now you can focus on your painting, according to Pelosi.


Which is why I would never hire an engineer to sweep floors, pack boxes, or make burgers.
 
2014-02-12 04:44:35 PM

rvesco: [img.fark.net image 452x433]

The disintegration of collecting as a cultural practice is comparable with the realization of the literary canon. The assertion of commodified objects may be parsed as the marketing of (dis)simulation.

/I created this message with a random word generator.
//Can I be Buckminster Fuller now?


The Buckminster Fuller quote made sense, (whether you agree with it or not is a different matter) even I understood it, and I'm an idiot, so how stupid are you that you cannot differentiate it from random words?
 
2014-02-12 04:47:08 PM
Haha, I am barely employed. I enjoy a very nice lifestyle. I travel. I take more college classes (working on a second degree).

I have never in my life taken welfare. I've never taken unemployment. People wonder how I work so little. The answer is: I live within my means. I am self employed but have taken jobs here and there to add to my income before. I've been doing this for my whole life. It blows people's f*cking minds.

I drive a cash car and when it breaks I fix it myself. I make my own stuff (I am very artistic). I live in a tiny apartment but I'm hardly ever home, I like the outdoors.

I don't have kids; that's a huge money saver. I try not to get involved with anything that has "monthly payments". I got my first credit card at 30. The only debt I have is a small student loan I took out for my first year of college, and I regret that.

I have a friend who is gifting me some furniture this week and I am reupholstering it. My brother is a lot like I am, he is a waiter who works 25 hours and stays home with his baby while his wife works her 30 hours. He also has reupholstered used furniture so I probably will ask him to help me.

Most people think they need that new car or a bigger house, so they work 60 hours, many of them at jobs they hate.

I call myself "willfully poor". I consider myself much more fortunate than say the "unwillfully poor" who are uneducated, have trouble finding employment, have children they cannot care for, have poor so ISL skills or low mental ability or have some other factor that prevents them from living comfortably well.

My father did not understand me for a long time. He worked as an engineer, and he worked long hours. My parents always said they'd travel when they retired but now they're too tired, too out of shape. I watched them and decide that if I wanted to travel I'd figure out a way to do it for free or to do it for a living.. And I have.

Recently my parents came to visit and my dad looked around my house. I'm used to him complaining about my lack of modern comforts (I got my first TV last year.. I never really liked watching TV.. i preferred to use the computer for leisure). This time when he visited he said "you know.. I think you have it all figured out."

That's all it is.. Figure out what you want, and how much you're willing to give up to get it.
 
2014-02-12 04:47:35 PM

Lawnchair: Egoy3k: Also most low wage employers don't trust their regional HR reps enough to let them give references and have a no references policy. So that part about getting references in your OP was incorrect as well.

Honestly, the entire concept of 'references' is dead virtually anywhere that has a formal HR department.  I don't care if it was part-time at Sonic or a salaried software engineer at Oracle, for 99% of businesses the policy is to answer a reference call with "Joe Smith was an employee from July 2008 to January 2014. Thank you for calling. click"


This is not a reference.
This is a prior employment verification/check call, to see if the latest job you listed has the correct info. (Thinking behind it: If you didn't lie here, we can assume your resume has some truth to it)

A reference is the people you worked with while there. Such as your previous manager, or co-workers you may have had, to see what you're like as an employee.New employers call these people at home, so the references are not under pressure from work to give a short review, and to see what you are like as a person.
 
2014-02-12 04:52:05 PM

navanax: YixilTesiphon: meat0918: A guy with an engineering degree shouldn't be working as a burger flipper.

What if nobody wants to employ him to be an engineer?

Why would they when we now have the fad of 'employing' college-educated interns to do for free jobs that paid pretty well 10 years ago?

And why would anyone hire the engineer at a lower wage anyway, considering they should realistically expect him to vanish as soon as he finds a job that pays him in accordance with his skills?



Or when we can import one from China or India for 50% of the cost of an American?
 
2014-02-12 04:53:34 PM

tlars699: A reference is the people you worked with while there. Such as your previous manager, or co-workers you may have had, to see what you're like as an employee.New employers call these people at home, so the references are not under pressure from work to give a short review, and to see what you are like as a person.


And, again, the formal policy from my employer to my direct supervisor (and to me regarding co-workers) is, "If you get a call like this at work or at home, refer them to the HR number. Anything else has the risk of a libel suit.".   I think my supervisor would bend that (and hopefully many would), but that's very much the policy.
 
2014-02-12 04:54:06 PM
An additional 6 percent apply for disability insurance

SSD automatically rejects 90% who apply. When they reapply, they need a Disability Lawyer, who will work for a portion of their back benefits, which started accumulating upon their first application. The longer the case takes to win, the greater their 'fee'.

When they win, their fee comes right out of the first check, before it gets to the client. SSD usually instructs the new recipient to NOT bank to save any of that remaining money, not invest any of it.

It can take up to two years from the end of unemployment benefits and the first SSD application to get Disability. Social Security will put you on Social Security Income, usually about 1/4 of what you made monthly when you last worked and give you Medicare and Medicaid as you fight for SSD.

You also cannot have any savings above $1000 in any bank, nor any stocks or bonds. You are expected to exhaust any alternative resources prior to being considered for Social Security Disability.

Once you get it, Medicaid stops forever. More than likely if you make over $500 a month, your food stamps will stop. You will get Medicare. Your check will be based on roughly 50% of your last salary. You'll need to sign up for Medicare part D.

Chances are, by the time you get disability, you'll have been kicked out of your home, gone bankrupt and applying for housing assistance can take up to a year.

BTW. You actually have to have a disability to get Disability. You'll be sent to various physicians to verify this -- at the Governments' expense. Chances are, you'll have to verify your disability yearly.

BTW. Remember struggling Social Security? Millionaires and Billionaires get it whether they need it or not. It's the law. Even if they use the checks to tip their waiter at their club and have the best health insurance available. Congress will not cut anyone off who paid into it, even if they will never need it.

It's been estimated that one billion a year can be saved for the fund by cutting off the 1% highest earners.
 
2014-02-12 05:00:25 PM

PunkTiger: I've been out of work for 4 years. Two of those years, I couldn't really search for work seriously because I was on dialysis (I had been since 2005 -- don't fark up your kidneys, folks, that crap ain't fun). The third year (2012), I was recovering from a kidney transplant. Last year (and into this year), I've been actively searching for employment and finding very little available. After I stopped receiving unemployment benefits (I took myself off of them because I couldn't, in good faith, keep looking for work -- being on dialysis and all that), I've been living partly on disability benefits (that will end February 2015), a severance payment from my old job, and my life savings.

I'm 50 years old and facing an uphill battle in the job market. I'm not looking for handouts, I'm looking for a job that pays above minimum wage so I can get back on my feet again.

All that being said, I have a hard time believing that the federal government actually gives a leaping G-d damn for people who are still unemployed after their benefits have run out.


Whiner.When i was on dialysis I paved roads from noon till 4AM and coached Little League and Pop Warner on weekends. I also volunteered a a UPS warehouse from 5AM to 10AM because I was making too much money paving roads and felt that I had to give back to the business community. I'd tell you about climbing Mt Washington with two broken legs and intubated oxygen but you probably are already ashamed after reading about my stick-to-it-ivness and gumption so i won't
 
2014-02-12 05:04:38 PM

2KanZam: But of course, as people upthread are insinuating, I am making all this up for some reason.


Having read through, I buy it. I won't lie, when I lost my job as a secretary - right when the recession hit - I didn't find another until the benefits were about to run out - because I moved (with my husband) to an area where the number of jobs total, much less those I was qualified for, was drastically lower. I did get some interviews, but not many, and no offers.

I ended up having to deliver car parts part time for a year, and it SUCKED. I don't mind retail, but I have back problems and the job exacerbated that plus a bunch of other joint issues. I only started my own business because I inherited some money to do it with; it hasn't gone all that well (again this area sucks), but I've kept afloat.

End of benefits means you have to take the first job you can find that will hire you, instead of holding out for something you actually want to do... so it'll be interesting to see how this new trend of quitting I've been hearing about will go.
 
2014-02-12 05:07:30 PM

Rik01: You also cannot have any savings above $1000 in any bank, nor any stocks or bonds. You are expected to exhaust any alternative resources prior to being considered for Social Security Disability.


You're confusing SSI (Supplemental Security Income... the rarer welfare system) with SSDI (disability insurance, part of your Social Security payroll tax).  The latter is many things, but it is not means-tested.  You can have any amount of money in the bank and get SSDI.
 
2014-02-12 05:10:26 PM
This thread, y,all.

I graduated last June and have been looking for full time work since. I work two jobs for shiat wages, and am only part-time and on-call. Christ on a seatless bicycle, on-call sucks. Anyway, I already had ten years of experience in my field when I went to school. So I'm applying for many jobs, including ones that list my exact degree and a few years of experience as the minimum requirements. The response? Bupkis. Maybe the occasional auto-generated "your application is in another, smaller pool of applicants and we'll inform you if you're selected for an interview" email, but after that? More bupkis. Blarg.
 
2014-02-12 05:11:48 PM

Lawnchair: tlars699: A reference is the people you worked with while there. Such as your previous manager, or co-workers you may have had, to see what you're like as an employee.New employers call these people at home, so the references are not under pressure from work to give a short review, and to see what you are like as a person.

And, again, the formal policy from my employer to my direct supervisor (and to me regarding co-workers) is, "If you get a call like this at work or at home, refer them to the HR number. Anything else has the risk of a libel suit.".   I think my supervisor would bend that (and hopefully many would), but that's very much the policy.



It's not libel if you tell the truth, and can prove what was said was true.
Also, they don't tell you which reference gave you a bad review that prevented your hiring, so these policies are stupid.
 
2014-02-12 05:12:50 PM

Rik01: An additional 6 percent apply for disability insurance

SSD automatically rejects 90% who apply. When they reapply, they need a Disability Lawyer, who will work for a portion of their back benefits, which started accumulating upon their first application. The longer the case takes to win, the greater their 'fee'.

When they win, their fee comes right out of the first check, before it gets to the client. SSD usually instructs the new recipient to NOT bank to save any of that remaining money, not invest any of it.

It can take up to two years from the end of unemployment benefits and the first SSD application to get Disability. Social Security will put you on Social Security Income, usually about 1/4 of what you made monthly when you last worked and give you Medicare and Medicaid as you fight for SSD.

You also cannot have any savings above $1000 in any bank, nor any stocks or bonds. You are expected to exhaust any alternative resources prior to being considered for Social Security Disability.

Once you get it, Medicaid stops forever. More than likely if you make over $500 a month, your food stamps will stop. You will get Medicare. Your check will be based on roughly 50% of your last salary. You'll need to sign up for Medicare part D.

Chances are, by the time you get disability, you'll have been kicked out of your home, gone bankrupt and applying for housing assistance can take up to a year.

BTW. You actually have to have a disability to get Disability. You'll be sent to various physicians to verify this -- at the Governments' expense. Chances are, you'll have to verify your disability yearly.

BTW. Remember struggling Social Security? Millionaires and Billionaires get it whether they need it or not. It's the law. Even if they use the checks to tip their waiter at their club and have the best health insurance available. Congress will not cut anyone off who paid into it, even if they will never need it.

It's been estimated that one billion a year can be saved for the fund by cutting off the 1% highest earners.


So much misinformation about ssa in that post. SSI and Dib insurance are two different things for one. Not to mention your misunderstanding of the disability application process. Next time get it straight before you post.
 
2014-02-12 05:12:59 PM

Pangea: Of course it's not the job you wish for. I was out of work for 13 weeks in 2002 after losing my job making $72,000 a year and unable to find a job that was "up to my standards."

Do you know what I did when benefits ran out? I took a job paying $49,000 a year that I would have called "beneath me" a few weeks earlier.


Holy smokes?! BENEATH YOU?!

I'd do some pretty unspeakable things to get to $49k/yr, so remember your "beneath me" is someone else's "couple of rungs up".

BTW, not a burger flipper. I'm an IT Manager, and I took this job because the person who had it before me got fired.
 
2014-02-12 05:16:02 PM

keypusher: rogue49: Q: How does crime happen???


Get ready for a big increase...

It really doesn't work that way.  In 2010, when things were very bad, violent crime fell 12%.  You would expect crime to have skyrocketed in the Great Depression, but it didn't.


Prohibition was also repealed after Roosevelt was elected.
 
2014-02-12 05:18:32 PM
tlars699 - Want? Nobody really. Has to be? Someone who has to support two small children?

I knew you were going to say this. I will point out again.... I said 'want'... not 'had to'...

And the previous statement is against the law, I think. Harrassment/retaliation? IANAL, so if you are, please help me out.I mean if you can prove the trumped up reasons are in fact trumped up?

I am aware it is against the law, which is why I said that these people were in fact fired for silly/petty/ no reason... after all, it is a RTW state and they can fire you for NO reason and not have to explain it to anyone. Unless you can prove malice, which is almost impossible for anyone without the resources of amajor corporation. Which, if you have beenkeeping up on current economic affairs, is about 1% of the US population.

Also, if you're looking for an alternate job you
1. Don't list references from anyone in your current employment situation. You keep in contact with outside references, and use those.

If your career path is in a career that is rather specific and small.. like, say being a post-cardiological examiner as an example (I am not one) how are you going to keep it quiet? Such businesses have seminars, they have people who work throughout the profession... how are you going to get another job in such a field when they all know each other, not just in your area, but nation-wide?

2. Don't tell anyone about looking for alternate employment, aside from your spousal unit who doesn't work for the company.

As stated above, it is not a question of talking about it... in some situations it is impossible for your search NOT to get out...

3. DON"T LOOK FOR OTHER JOBS ONLINE WHILE AT YOUR CURRENT JOB.

They were not.In one of the instances I mentioned, they had told no one. But, the HR person of Company B knew the HR person in company A and mentioned getting a resume from my friend because his name came up in normal conversation. Illegal? Maybe... but again, see above reference to ability to carry a sustained legal battle.

Oy vei.

Indeed. You did not strike me as someone who would make such sweeping generalizations as you have done in your last post. There is also something called 'bad luck', which is something that, if never experienced, can easily be ignored. However, it is very real and can destroy a person in every way in a very short space of time, regardless of 'intelligent decisions' and an economically sound lifestyle.
 
2014-02-12 05:18:33 PM

Rik01: BTW. You actually have to have a disability to get Disability. You'll be sent to various physicians to verify this -- at the Governments' expense. Chances are, you'll have to verify your disability yearly.


You sound white.

Very White.

Really, really white - (read the linked article at the top of this article first).

/If we actually gave out that much money to black people and called it welfare, white people would riot.  And white people own all the guns, because blacks mostly live in the cities where they've on the average banned guns.  So we don't.  We call it disability, spend way too much money on Medicaid labeling them bipolar/schizo/whatever, and move on $80 Billion and an entire generation of black people who could be contributing to the actual non-welfare economy poorer.
 
2014-02-12 05:21:04 PM

Lawnchair: tlars699: A reference is the people you worked with while there. Such as your previous manager, or co-workers you may have had, to see what you're like as an employee.New employers call these people at home, so the references are not under pressure from work to give a short review, and to see what you are like as a person.

And, again, the formal policy from my employer to my direct supervisor (and to me regarding co-workers) is, "If you get a call like this at work or at home, refer them to the HR number. Anything else has the risk of a libel suit.".   I think my supervisor would bend that (and hopefully many would), but that's very much the policy.


I always say

"you'll be lucky to get this guy to work for you" or

"I am pleased to say that this candidate is a former colleague of mine" or

"I most enthusiastically recommend this candidate with no qualifications whatsoever"
 
2014-02-12 05:22:49 PM
My dad's words of wisdom to me at age 6 (he died when I was 7) were:
"Son, never pawn the pistols, and don't lose the ski mask....hit it!"
 
2014-02-12 05:27:10 PM

YixilTesiphon: meat0918: A guy with an engineering degree shouldn't be working as a burger flipper.

What if nobody wants to employ him to be an engineer?


I know plenty of people with engineering degrees I wouldn't trust to flip burgers

/anecdotes are fun!
 
2014-02-12 05:27:37 PM
zeroman987 - So much misinformation about ssa in that post. SSI and Dib insurance are two different things for one. Not to mention your misunderstanding of the disability application process. Next time get it straight before you post.

Excuse me? I am living this right now and everything Rik01 has said (up to the 'after you get it' line, because I have not gotten shiat) is exactly what I am going through. (except the SS income thing... I have been given nothing... not one cent. I don't know about if they are different or whatever, but it is not something I have even been given a glimpse of.)
 
2014-02-12 05:31:57 PM

MyRandomName: North Carolina has already stopped long term unemployment... let's see how that is working... oh! Higher employment levels.


Bullshiat.  Unemployment rate went down, but that was because people seeking employment dropped.   Blue line shows jobs, on same slow trend upward.  Red line shows labor force.

research.stlouisfed.org

Now, what would cause people to quit looking for work?   Maybe the requirement that they do so?  You don't say!


/Don't try arguing data with a Datanerd.
 
2014-02-12 05:36:10 PM

keypusher: wildcardjack: [radicalunjobbing.files.wordpress.com image 452x433]

What if they've dropped out of school and are too dumb to read?


It's an idea that's been put forth. Bucky was wound up a bit tight. He actually thought everyone could be superior to the downtrodden someday. What a fool, right?

LiquidTester: YixilTesiphon: meat0918: A guy with an engineering degree shouldn't be working as a burger flipper.

What if nobody wants to employ him to be an engineer?

I know plenty of people with engineering degrees I wouldn't trust to flip burgers

/anecdotes are fun!


Yeah, I have a BS in mechanical engineering and I wouldn't be fit to work in the average burger joint. The griddles are built to 39" and I'm 6'5", I'd have to bend over to flip burgers. That's not a long term option.
 
2014-02-12 05:36:23 PM

FizixJunkee: Crass and Jaded Mother Farker: All2morrowsparTs: Smeggy Smurf: If you don't have the government enabling you to sit on the couch you'll do what your grandparents did and move to where the work is.  I hear the Dakotas and Texas are hiring.

You have read the Grapes of Wrath right?

Also they will do what your Grandparents did, steal, loot, riot and /or hang aristocrats

I thought my grandfather was a mechanic.


My grandfather was a mechanic, too.  His wife (my grandmother) was a stay-at-home mom.

You know, maybe losing unemployment benefits wouldn't be so painful if all those stay-at-home moms out there would get jobs?


Maybe wages would be higher if all those working moms would stay at home instead of taking jobs away from husbands and dads?
 
2014-02-12 05:36:29 PM
No one has ever explained why you .. yes you .. are entitled to other people's money ..
 
2014-02-12 05:38:24 PM
And, most importantly, if you naysayers are so sure I am sitting here because I want to be a lazy little mooching shiat, then please do me a favor and tell your LEOs and politicians to please, please stop interfering with my attempt to check out. Thank You. I mean, if you won't help me live, at least stop keeping me alive. Is that too much to ask?
 
2014-02-12 05:41:37 PM

wildcardjack: Yeah, I have a BS in mechanical engineering and I wouldn't be fit to work in the average burger joint. The griddles are built to 39" and I'm 6'5", I'd have to bend over to flip burgers. That's not a long term option.


If only there were someone with the skill set and credentials to craft, to devise, to design, to, er, what's the technical term, figger out a solution to that physical griddle height issue.   :)
 
2014-02-12 05:43:47 PM

payattention: tlars699 - Want? Nobody really. Has to be? Someone who has to support two small children?

I knew you were going to say this. I will point out again.... I said 'want'... not 'had to'...

And the previous statement is against the law, I think. Harrassment/retaliation? IANAL, so if you are, please help me out.I mean if you can prove the trumped up reasons are in fact trumped up?

I am aware it is against the law, which is why I said that these people were in fact fired for silly/petty/ no reason... after all, it is a RTW state (well, there's your problem... :/)and they can fire you for NO reason and not have to explain it to anyone. Unless you can prove malice, which is almost impossible for anyone without the resources of amajor corporation. Which, if you have beenkeeping up on current economic affairs, is about 1% of the US population. Indeed, I have, and I'm well aware of such.

Also, if you're looking for an alternate job you
1. Don't list references from anyone in your current employment situation. You keep in contact with outside references, and use those.

If your career path is in a career that is rather specific and small.. like, say being a post-cardiological examiner as an example (I am not one) how are you going to keep it quiet? Such businesses have seminars, they have people who work throughout the profession... how are you going to get another job in such a field when they all know each other, not just in your area, but nation-wide?
Very good point. You can still attempt for find an alternate medical position, but I can see where this would get tricky (such as having to start out at the bottom rung again/get certified prior, etc).
However, if you're this highly specialized, surely you can address such and negotiate for a better rate or pay for your work, right?

2. Don't tell anyone about looking for alternate employment, aside from your spousal unit who doesn't work for the company.

As stated above, it is not a question of talking about it... in some situations it is impossible for your search NOT to get out...
In some, but in engineering/ other more generic jobs, not so much. This was also partly in response to someone who was an engineer, became a telemarketer, and then  found a new job as an engineer.

3. DON"T LOOK FOR OTHER JOBS ONLINE WHILE AT YOUR CURRENT JOB.

They were not.In one of the instances I mentioned, they had told no one. But, the HR person of Company B knew the HR person in company A and mentioned getting a resume from my friend because his name came up in normal conversation. Illegal? Maybe... but again, see above reference to ab ...
This person should be reported to their company. They violated at least the policy therein, if not the law.
missed in quote:
There is also something called 'bad luck', which is something that, if never experienced, can easily be ignored. However, it is very real and can destroy a person in every way in a very short space of time, regardless of 'intelligent decisions' and an economically sound lifestyle.


Yes, indeed, and agreed. I'm not saying there isn't.
But when you intentionally delay getting a job in the off-chance that you may find a new one of approximate equal value, my point was that this is not a viable way to live, and expect to have come true.
That isn't bad luck, but more of purposeful ignorance, which I abhor and do my upmost to counteract.

As I've said before, we shouldn't cut off unemployment benefits whole hog, but perhaps come up with an alternate plan so that they may be better used, such as a relocation payment available prior to tax season.

Also, people on said benefits should do all that they can feasibly do to try and find some sort of bootstrap to get out of that situation. Not saying that most don't; they do. Just saying Everyone Should.
 
2014-02-12 05:43:57 PM

Cerebral Ballsy: That's all it is.. Figure out what you want, and how much you're willing to give up to get it.


A lot of what you said is true, however when you have a family to provide for - that all changes. You are going to want to put them in a good school and not live in the ghetto. You are going to want to make sure they eat healthy. You are going to want to buy them a car probably and put them through college. You are going to have to pay for a wedding assuming they get married. You might have your wife stay home to take care of the kids, thus creating another dependent. You are going to want to have a reliable and safe vehicle for your family. You are going to want to have nice toys etc. It gets expensive real fast. When it is just you, sure life is really easy and if that is forever satisfying to you - great, but some of us want or have families.
 
2014-02-12 05:44:05 PM
If you think living on unemployment benefits is so good, go ahead and quit your job and live on it. Seriously. Oh, you'd rather keep your job and have a good income and all that goes with it? Funny that.
 
2014-02-12 05:49:33 PM

the money is in the banana stand: Cerebral Ballsy: That's all it is.. Figure out what you want, and how much you're willing to give up to get it.

A lot of what you said is true, however when you have a family to provide for - that all changes. You are going to want to put them in a good school and not live in the ghetto. You are going to want to make sure they eat healthy. You are going to want to buy them a car probably and put them through college. You are going to have to pay for a wedding assuming they get married. You might have your wife stay home to take care of the kids, thus creating another dependent. You are going to want to have a reliable and safe vehicle for your family. You are going to want to have nice toys etc. It gets expensive real fast. When it is just you, sure life is really easy and if that is forever satisfying to you - great, but some of us want or have families.


I guess that still falls under the find out what you want bit. If you want the family and all the associated stuff then you have decided it's worth having to work to pay for it all. Unless you are one of those in the top 1%, who just work so much harder, obviously.
 
2014-02-12 05:55:12 PM
Funny thing.  I can't work because my employer fired me under very false allegations, partially damaging my clearance, in a way that makes me around $15k-$20k more expensive than the next guy for any future employers to hire.  I can't not work with the federal extensions turned off.

All of the competing companies seem to actively want to hire me, but are unwilling to roll the dice on a $15k-$20k bet.  Stuck in the middle I am.

Due to my (now former) employers' other goings-on, I was interviewed by the House Oversight Committee in December.  Surprisingly enough, I had mostly (other than being fired) good things to say about the company.

It's strange- I don't want to win (or lose, natch) a fight (legal, public, etc.) with the company.  I don't want to be in the fight to begin with.  Unless I can step back into my old job or move forward into a new job, I'm stuck in the middle in a situation where I appear to be forced into that fight.  I just want to go back to work, either with my former employer or a competitor.  Got a kid to feed, mortgage to pay, etc..
 
2014-02-12 05:55:43 PM

Nidiot: the money is in the banana stand: Cerebral Ballsy: That's all it is.. Figure out what you want, and how much you're willing to give up to get it.

A lot of what you said is true, however when you have a family to provide for - that all changes. You are going to want to put them in a good school and not live in the ghetto. You are going to want to make sure they eat healthy. You are going to want to buy them a car probably and put them through college. You are going to have to pay for a wedding assuming they get married. You might have your wife stay home to take care of the kids, thus creating another dependent. You are going to want to have a reliable and safe vehicle for your family. You are going to want to have nice toys etc. It gets expensive real fast. When it is just you, sure life is really easy and if that is forever satisfying to you - great, but some of us want or have families.

I guess that still falls under the find out what you want bit. If you want the family and all the associated stuff then you have decided it's worth having to work to pay for it all. Unless you are one of those in the top 1%, who just work so much harder, obviously.


Hey, my sarcasm meter is working!! lolz
 
2014-02-12 05:57:24 PM
meh.  I was out of work for 1 year, living with the parents, and sending out resumes all over the place.  I have a degree in a computer-related field, but no one was hiring.  I started my own business doing design work, but after finding some work, I called that off and gave most of my clients over to a girl who did better work, though she charged much more for it.  I worked at the job for 3 years, always being promised better hours and more pay, though they never materialized.  I did my job, learned the best practices, and kicked ass at the position.  I came in whenever they called me, covering for the run of drunks and idiots who were hired for grunt labor.  I did my job, learned the duties of those above my station, and started doing their jobs at the same pay.  I was the perfect employee because I got shiate done and the customer/client was happy at the end of the day.  I didn't complain about the overtime, the lack of breaks, working though lunches, long hours, and the crappy commute to work after I was transferred when my original location was shut down for remodeling.

Then I started thinking about getting a different job, one that didn't suck as much.  I was hired on the spot of my first interview due to shining reviews from co-workers and my boss, who then tried to keep me on with the promise of more money and a management position.  Same promises they'd been making for 2 years, so I kept my bridges intact and tactfully declined before moving my employment to the new job.  The new position paid less than the previous one, but the hours are better and I don't have to take my work home with me when I leave the building.

After the [paid] training, I set about to make myself a shining employee to the new employer.  I've done so, and I am working on getting into management, with the glowing reviews of all my supervisors backing me up.  In 6 months, I've gotten 2 promotions, which is unheard of in the region.  I've been the employee they call when someone calls in sick.  I am given tasks and I carry them out without complaint, and do my best to complete them.  I am on track to be a rising star in the company, and my future potential is without limits.  I see those around me slacking off and generally taking every shortcut they can in order to just get the day over.  The vast majority of people will take the easy way out of their duties, in order to get their shift over.  When they are scheduled to leave, they leave.  I am on the short list of people who are worth the overtime to keep me at work, because I complete work.  I get shiat done.

I see everyone complaining about the positions they have to take in order to make ends meet.  What most people don't get is that while many of the jobs which are available today are entry-level, they are stepping stones to the next level.  That position at McD's flipping burgers is a 6 month gig which familiarizes the new employee with the business and gives the business time to evaluate the employee for their potential.  If you come in, do the work, and go home, you are written off as a menial employee, and you have only yourself to blame when someone else comes in and shines at the position, and gets the promotion ahead of you.

Yes, the minimum wage sucks, and the "living wage" needs to be re-evaluated ... upwards, but the point of the starting shiat job is to make the person want to move up in the company.  If you make the company want to keep you, then the company will be beholden to make you want to stay with the company, be it with raises or promotions or both.  Sitting at home and moaning and groaning on the computer will solve nothing, and it wastes the time you have to make the company want you to succeed, which makes the company succeed.

/off your collective butts and get working
//and put your cell phone away!
 
2014-02-12 06:04:00 PM
coeyagi

Ooh, a social experiment! A social Science experiment! Well, there goes GOP support.... right?

GOP hasn't supported your 7 year experiment in killing minority employment:
Black Unemployment Returns to Double White Rate Under Obama


Black Labor Force Participation Rate Under Obama Hits Rock Bottom - Lowest Level Ever Recorded


NAACP president: Black people worse off under Obama


Minorities Disproportionately Worse Off Under Obama
 
2014-02-12 06:08:01 PM
Wendy's Chili

What a compelling anecdote. I'm voting for Reagan!

From the same derp-ers who complain about Teleprompter jokes comes derp about a president that hasn't been in office (or even alive) for over 15 years
 
2014-02-12 06:10:50 PM
Wendy's Chili

What a compelling anecdote. I'm voting for Reagan!

The unemployment and economic indicators showing minorities being crushed by the obama recession won't change your vote, we sure as fark don't expect any logic in your decision making.

Though... hating minorities has been a long standing Democrat tradition
Trail of tears ... democrat president
Japanese Internment ... democrat president
KKK Formation ... democrats
Senator Robert Byrd KKK Recruiter/Leader ... Democrat.
 
2014-02-12 06:12:45 PM
How about starting your own soap company. Buy fat from mortuaries, or free lance it on the street, get some oak ashes an run water through them=lye. Fat and lye make soap, put in cheap perfume, wrap it in fancy but cheap foil and get people to sell it on commission. Water and alcohol with some blue dye in it makes a great window cleaner, the spray bottles are about 21cents each in bulk. Now you have a two product line.
I've started 3 companies since  "retired".
I have another idea that is VERY marketable, if obummer hadn't gotten back in office it would be going great guns by now...I didn't set up a production facility because politics.
Funny part is, I don't need the money. I'm set, but damn, travel gets boring, high class hookers are not up to the standard pickups I can make (I only ask beautiful women out) I have the big house, the well tended grounds, the mexican maid, and I still start companies and sell them once they are in the black or give them to people I like (Cyber-Coop was gifted to a guy who just hated bosses).
I've never really understood poors because I was never one myself, but I'm not smarter than anybody, and I just see needs and fill them, and that turns into money(which I already had) so I always paid well, people who screw their employees should be drawn and quartered.
There are more opportunities out there than folks realize, don't look for a job, make one, that makes 12, then 24 and so on.
I did this as an experiment in Dallas Texas in 87.
I picked an off ramp, put up a deck chair with a beach umbrella over it, with my boom box booming, and a 5 gallon bucket that said DONATIONS HERE. I put up signs people read coming down the exit. They said "I'm not hungry", "I'm not homeless", "I have a job", "BUT", "I would enjoy a tropical vacation" people threw money in the bucket like crazy I got a lot of thumbs up as I sat in my beach chair wearing a sombrero, in my best Hawaiian shirt, sipping a pina colada. Made over 1,200 in 3 days "only worked" from 3;30 till 6.
Try it, hey if ya ain't doin anything else, people will pay for a good laugh. Especially when they'd like a trip to Tahiti too.
Good luck and keep on smiling!
 
2014-02-12 06:13:35 PM

Smeggy Smurf: If you don't have the government enabling you to sit on the couch you'll do what your grandparents did and move to where the work is.  I hear the Dakotas and Texas are hiring.


So you're telling me that collecting unemployment for the 2 weeks I was unemployed while the HR department did its thing and the place I interviewed at the day after I was laid off is "the government enabling me to sit on the couch?"

Go fark yourself.
 
2014-02-12 06:14:34 PM

bikerific: Because obviously unemployed people drinking on the stoop are a big voting demographic.


I assumed she meant congress.
 
2014-02-12 06:16:47 PM

iq_in_binary: Smeggy Smurf: If you don't have the government enabling you to sit on the couch you'll do what your grandparents did and move to where the work is.  I hear the Dakotas and Texas are hiring.

So you're telling me that collecting unemployment for the 2 weeks I was unemployed while the HR department did its thing and the place I interviewed at the day after I was laid off is "the government enabling me to sit on the couch?"

Go fark yourself.


No. This doesn't count, even by conservative standards.
 
2014-02-12 06:18:27 PM

Thunderpipes: Bet it doesn't cost taxpayers as much.


You're gonna lose that one. People working jobs that don't support them still get government aid, and now have extra expenses like transportation, child care, lack of access to education, reduced access to health care, etc. It's often a net loss compared to just giving them enough money to eat and stay indoors.
 
2014-02-12 06:20:09 PM

Thai_Mai_Xhu: How about starting your own soap company. Buy fat from mortuaries, or free lance it on the street, get some oak ashes an run water through them=lye. Fat and lye make soap, put in cheap perfume, wrap it in fancy but cheap foil and get people to sell it on commission. Water and alcohol with some blue dye in it makes a great window cleaner, the spray bottles are about 21cents each in bulk. Now you have a two product line.
I've started 3 companies since  "retired".
I have another idea that is VERY marketable, if obummer hadn't gotten back in office it would be going great guns by now...I didn't set up a production facility because politics.
Funny part is, I don't need the money. I'm set, but damn, travel gets boring, high class hookers are not up to the standard pickups I can make (I only ask beautiful women out) I have the big house, the well tended grounds, the mexican maid, and I still start companies and sell them once they are in the black or give them to people I like (Cyber-Coop was gifted to a guy who just hated bosses).
I've never really understood poors because I was never one myself, but I'm not smarter than anybody, and I just see needs and fill them, and that turns into money(which I already had) so I always paid well, people who screw their employees should be drawn and quartered.
There are more opportunities out there than folks realize, don't look for a job, make one, that makes 12, then 24 and so on.
I did this as an experiment in Dallas Texas in 87.
I picked an off ramp, put up a deck chair with a beach umbrella over it, with my boom box booming, and a 5 gallon bucket that said DONATIONS HERE. I put up signs people read coming down the exit. They said "I'm not hungry", "I'm not homeless", "I have a job", "BUT", "I would enjoy a tropical vacation" people threw money in the bucket like crazy I got a lot of thumbs up as I sat in my beach chair wearing a sombrero, in my best Hawaiian shirt, sipping a pina colada. Made over 1,200 in 3 days "only worked" fro ...


Sheep Farm in Detriot mid-lands. Need about $1600 to start up, including what it would take to Buy the land.
Once you have enough sheep you can start selling off lambs for meat, and shearing the adults for wool, and sell the wool online.

Sheep are DUMB, but aside from that... who knows?
 
2014-02-12 06:24:46 PM

Trance354: That position at McD's flipping burgers is a 6 month gig which familiarizes the new employee with the business and gives the business time to evaluate the employee for their potential.  If you come in, do the work, and go home, you are written off as a menial employee, and you have only yourself to blame when someone else comes in and shines at the position, and gets the promotion ahead of you.


That's a nice story, but it's not what actual studies show. Decade-long studies of adults working at fast food restaurants show that only about 22% of them make it out of poverty, and that's when the economy is good. Even if we accept your story as reality -- which would require us to believe that nearly 80% of adult fast-food workers are too unmotivated to really want work their way out of poverty -- it's still a problem with the system because keeping people forever in poverty is bad not just for them but for society as a whole, regardless of their motivation.
 
2014-02-12 06:27:35 PM

profplump: Thunderpipes: Bet it doesn't cost taxpayers as much.

You're gonna lose that one. People working jobs that don't support them still get government aid, and now have extra expenses like transportation, child care, lack of access to education, reduced access to health care, etc. It's often a net loss compared to just giving them enough money to eat and stay indoors.


This.

If they're *THAT* aggressively non-functional and non-contributing, I will pay for them to not starve*.  Because it's cheaper.  And then we have less crime and real upward labor pressures.

*In places like Tulsa, because Tulsa rich is cheaper than NYC poor.  You want to be useless in NYC, fark you.  I'll pay for Tulsa.
 
2014-02-12 06:29:13 PM
Oh ffs, wah wah wah, it's costing taxpayers money therefore I have less money, so therefore the poors are getting my money, my money damn it, mine, I want it, wah wah wah.

The money you pay in taxes isn't going to be given back to you once the government has it, the only issue is about where it goes once the government has it, so get over it. Has anyone even worked out what a minuscule amount it would be if the money currently going to pay the unemployed were to be "given back"?
 
2014-02-12 06:39:35 PM

Nidiot: Oh ffs, wah wah wah, it's costing taxpayers money therefore I have less money, so therefore the poors are getting my money, my money damn it, mine, I want it, wah wah wah.

The money you pay in taxes isn't going to be given back to you once the government has it, the only issue is about where it goes once the government has it, so get over it. Has anyone even worked out what a minuscule amount it would be if the money currently going to pay the unemployed were to be "given back"?


??? What are you on about? Aside from thunDERPipes and other politicians, who has said anything about taxes in this thread?

We should all be taxed a bit more, and have ACTUAL representation in our governing bodies.
 
2014-02-12 06:44:23 PM

profplump: Trance354: That position at McD's flipping burgers is a 6 month gig which familiarizes the new employee with the business and gives the business time to evaluate the employee for their potential.  If you come in, do the work, and go home, you are written off as a menial employee, and you have only yourself to blame when someone else comes in and shines at the position, and gets the promotion ahead of you.

That's a nice story, but it's not what actual studies show. Decade-long studies of adults working at fast food restaurants show that only about 22% of them make it out of poverty, and that's when the economy is good. Even if we accept your story as reality -- which would require us to believe that nearly 80% of adult fast-food workers are too unmotivated to really want work their way out of poverty -- it's still a problem with the system because keeping people forever in poverty is bad not just for them but for society as a whole, regardless of their motivation.


ok, first off, one does not necessarily have to stay at McD's.  One can kick ass and work well with others and find a higher paying job elsewhere with the references gained by kicking ass at McD's.  Then start the process over again, kicking butt and being a shining example of an employee.  I worked at the one job for 3 years without a promotion and shiate wages.  I did get the biggest pay raises in the region, but we're talking about an increase of 20-25 cents.  Per hour.  Those types of business practices are out there, and they stifle your ability to grow.  The boss also didn't want to lose me, so he gave me as many hours as I wanted.  Mind you, this was during the worst of the economic downturn, so having a job was a minor miracle to most people.  The economy improved and my butt was looking for a new employer.  Not on the job, and it didn't change how well I worked for the company.  I just wanted out.

Working your way up also means finding the right position and company in which to move up into management.  Sticking with a losing company in order to climb the ladder isn't the point.  Finding the company which will allow you to rise to the top is.

/farking around on your cell phone at work is not the way to do it.
//most of my co-workers don't seem to want to rise in the ranks
 
2014-02-12 06:49:18 PM
end EIC, its federal subsidy of minimum wage.
 
2014-02-12 06:50:00 PM

What_do_you_want_now: Pangea: Of course it's not the job you wish for. I was out of work for 13 weeks in 2002 after losing my job making $72,000 a year and unable to find a job that was "up to my standards."

Do you know what I did when benefits ran out? I took a job paying $49,000 a year that I would have called "beneath me" a few weeks earlier.

Holy smokes?! BENEATH YOU?!

I'd do some pretty unspeakable things to get to $49k/yr, so remember your "beneath me" is someone else's "couple of rungs up".

BTW, not a burger flipper. I'm an IT Manager, and I took this job because the person who had it before me got fired.


HOLY shiat YOU MUST SUCK AT YOUR JOB.

49K for an IT Manager???
 
2014-02-12 06:50:52 PM

tlars699: We should all be taxed a bit more, and have ACTUAL representation in our governing bodies.


Except that a pretty large portion of the country doesn't think we should all get taxed more.  (Even the Libs are "1%", not "you personally").  If you make any money at all on the coasts (Read: Might be able to afford own apartment with roommates), you're running about 40-45% marginal taxes, and losing 30-40% to taxes (That's 40-67% of takehome).

So we can have more taxes OR actual representation.  Pick one.
 
2014-02-12 06:54:21 PM

fat_free: 49K for an IT Manager???


Depends where you are.

$49K in a blue state?  What are you, stupid?  Frigging janitors make more than you, because wages are so high because of the damn rent taking it all.
$49K in a red state?  Damn, that's like a house and a yard + 2 kids + dog before we add in the wife's matching salary.  What are you doing right?

/Overgeneralization (It's more Coastal cities vs. Everyone else), but.
 
2014-02-12 06:56:20 PM

meyerkev: fat_free: 49K for an IT Manager???

Depends where you are.

$49K in a blue state?  What are you, stupid?  Frigging janitors make more than you, because wages are so high because of the damn rent taking it all.
$49K in a red state?  Damn, that's like a house and a yard + 2 kids + dog before we add in the wife's matching salary.  What are you doing right?

/Overgeneralization (It's more Coastal cities vs. Everyone else), but.


Not to mention it was a decade ago.
 
2014-02-12 06:59:41 PM
Those who do not work shall not eat, comrades.
 
2014-02-12 07:00:30 PM

new_york_monty: meyerkev: fat_free: 49K for an IT Manager???

Depends where you are.

$49K in a blue state?  What are you, stupid?  Frigging janitors make more than you, because wages are so high because of the damn rent taking it all.
$49K in a red state?  Damn, that's like a house and a yard + 2 kids + dog before we add in the wife's matching salary.  What are you doing right?

/Overgeneralization (It's more Coastal cities vs. Everyone else), but.

Not to mention it was a decade ago.


If you take a job as an IT Manager for less than 25 bucks an hour, you are either a bad hire who can't find anything else or a tard. Or both.
 
2014-02-12 07:03:39 PM

Clemkadidlefark: No one has ever explained why you .. yes you .. are entitled to other people's money ..


And you have never explained why you think of your entire gross salary as "your money".

In some more enlightened places, salaries are quoted net of all taxes and other deductions.

Your money is your NET pay, not your gross.
 
2014-02-12 07:06:12 PM

fat_free: new_york_monty: meyerkev: fat_free: 49K for an IT Manager???

Depends where you are.

$49K in a blue state?  What are you, stupid?  Frigging janitors make more than you, because wages are so high because of the damn rent taking it all.
$49K in a red state?  Damn, that's like a house and a yard + 2 kids + dog before we add in the wife's matching salary.  What are you doing right?

/Overgeneralization (It's more Coastal cities vs. Everyone else), but.

Not to mention it was a decade ago.

If you take a job as an IT Manager for less than 25 bucks an hour, you are either a bad hire who can't find anything else or a tard. Or both.


Not my field, so I have no real idea about that. Maybe it's true where you are. But like the guy above me said, money spends a lot different in the country, and pay scales tend to be commensurate. Frankly, you come across as someone who's never traveled toward the middle of the country, but still thinks he knows what life is like there.
 
2014-02-12 07:06:39 PM

tlars699: Lawnchair: tlars699: A reference is the people you worked with while there. Such as your previous manager, or co-workers you may have had, to see what you're like as an employee.New employers call these people at home, so the references are not under pressure from work to give a short review, and to see what you are like as a person.

And, again, the formal policy from my employer to my direct supervisor (and to me regarding co-workers) is, "If you get a call like this at work or at home, refer them to the HR number. Anything else has the risk of a libel suit.".   I think my supervisor would bend that (and hopefully many would), but that's very much the policy.


It's not libel if you tell the truth, and can prove what was said was true.
Also, they don't tell you which reference gave you a bad review that prevented your hiring, so these policies are stupid.


Libel is decided by a judge and by that time you've already been sued and lost money to a lawyer.
 
2014-02-12 07:08:53 PM

What_do_you_want_now: Pangea: Of course it's not the job you wish for. I was out of work for 13 weeks in 2002 after losing my job making $72,000 a year and unable to find a job that was "up to my standards."

Do you know what I did when benefits ran out? I took a job paying $49,000 a year that I would have called "beneath me" a few weeks earlier.

Holy smokes?! BENEATH YOU?!

I'd do some pretty unspeakable things to get to $49k/yr, so remember your "beneath me" is someone else's "couple of rungs up".

BTW, not a burger flipper. I'm an IT Manager, and I took this job because the person who had it before me got fired.


I wasn't trying to be dismissive. I fully realize how self-centered and entitled I was.

That was just where my head was when my situation forced me to get some much needed perspective.

I was willing to hold out for what I thought I deserved when I had other options. Once reality set in, I was grateful just to have an offer.
 
GBB [TotalFark]
2014-02-12 07:11:12 PM

Dr Dreidel: GBB: [www.washingtonpost.com image 296x586]
Much like global warming, the trend is obvious, so surely it will be refuted.

1. Just saying "BLS data" doesn't say much. Is it using the same BLS data throughout, or is that one of those charts that goes from U3 to U6 without telling us when or why?
2. You mean the most recent recession - the worst since The Great Depression - is worse than the postwar boom period (the largest expansion of wealth and access to it in US history)?! Get the fark out of town.
3. So what you're saying is: there are more unemployed people than there have been in 70 years, so we should spend EVEN LESS money than we spend now making sure they can pay rent and gas bills to avoid further descent into poverty. Great plan; I'm sure everyone will just decide to be employed tomorrow.


So are you saying you can't read, or you don't understand what you're reading?
 
2014-02-12 07:13:40 PM

mcreadyblue: Lawnchair: tlars699: A reference is the people you worked with while there. Such as your previous manager, or co-workers you may have had, to see what you're like as an employee.New employers call these people at home, so the references are not under pressure from work to give a short review, and to see what you are like as a person.

And, again, the formal policy from my employer to my direct supervisor (and to me regarding co-workers) is, "If you get a call like this at work or at home, refer them to the HR number. Anything else has the risk of a libel suit.".   I think my supervisor would bend that (and hopefully many would), but that's very much the policy.

I always say

"you'll be lucky to get this guy to work for you" or

"I am pleased to say that this candidate is a former colleague of mine" or

"I most enthusiastically recommend this candidate with no qualifications whatsoever"


So, the first one means that he was a lazy so-and-so who never did any work?
And the second one means you were really glad to see the last of him because he was a backstabbing sob?
And the third one means he lies on his resume?
 
2014-02-12 07:16:44 PM

meyerkev: tlars699: We should all be taxed a bit more, and have ACTUAL representation in our governing bodies.

Except that a pretty large portion of the country doesn't think we should all get taxed more.  (Even the Libs are "1%", not "you personally").  If you make any money at all on the coasts (Read: Might be able to afford own apartment with roommates), you're running about 40-45% marginal taxes, and losing 30-40% to taxes (That's 40-67% of takehome).

So we can have more taxes OR actual representation.  Pick one.


You just explained one half of that choice.
 Why can't we have "actual representation", aka politicians who aren't necessarily lawyers that make over 150,000 a year at their "day-jobs"?
No taxation without it, remember?

And seems to me that you guys on the coast must not have the Homestead credits in your state, where you get a certain portion of your paid rent back, or you have too many roommates, or are not living within your means, or are not making enough at your job...

 Are you sure you're getting a good tax rep for yourself?
So many people file on their onesie, and wonder why they pay in so much. :\
It wouldn't be so bad to pay in if you can get that money back. Hope you do. :(

I think even the libs would  say fair is fair if they raised it .05% for the poorest level, and 10% for the highest level of incomes, as I consider myself a liberal. It basically means that while you pay in a little more, as a lower income person, you would get all of it back at the end of the tax season.
 
2014-02-12 07:19:52 PM

pdieten: Clemkadidlefark: No one has ever explained why you .. yes you .. are entitled to other people's money ..

And you have never explained why you think of your entire gross salary as "your money".

In some more enlightened places, salaries are quoted net of all taxes and other deductions.

Your money is your NET pay, not your gross.


Techinically, "YOUR MONEY" isn't even "yours" at all. You did not "make" it, you "earned" it.  It was someone else's money that they gave to you, because they thought that the work you do was worth it.

Eventually you end up giving it back to them by investing, or buying their products, etc.

So, it's never "your money".
 
2014-02-12 07:27:04 PM
tlars699 - But when you intentionally delay getting a job in the off-chance that you may find a new one of approximate equal value, my point was that this is not a viable way to live, and expect to have come true.

I agree. In my case, this does not apply. I injured myself, pretty much permanently, at my work. I was denied workers comp because A) no insurance company is going to pay a cent unless they are forced to and even then they are going to fight it as long as they can. I am not a 1% corporation, therefore, I cannot fight them on this, and B), the medical profession, thanks to ridiculous lawsuits, refuses to take a stand on anything unless it is also un-fightable. Since my injury is not visible, they decide I am either not injured (the old 'If he is not bleeding from the ears, then he must be okay), or I am lying. I was fired a year after this. (In fact, today is my one year anniversary of being fired). Some days I cannot even move more than a few feet and have to sit here in constant pain on the heating pad. My former doctor refused me anything for this after my last visit, (the second in a year... let me repeat this, TWO visits in one YEAR!) on the grounds that I might be one of those people who shop around to different doctors for prescriptions. I have only gone to this lady and a chiropractor (which I now cannot afford). Being, a life-long manic depressive and anxiety sufferer, this has served to pretty much destroy me in every way. I am 50. I have no illusions about finding any work because no one has offered anything... even an illusion. So, again, I agree with your statement, but it does not include me although it kind of does seem to. To say my butt is sore from all the screwing is an understatement. Yet, they are cutting what tiny help I am getting. And, as I posted after the one you replied to, I can't even attempt an honorable departure, because the cops will show up, probably kill both my dogs if they happen to be in the area (what else is the dog supposed to do? You run up to someone with a dog and start screaming at him and grabbing him and see what the dog does. They won't allow you to remove or contain them either, they just shoot), destroy my house in their efforts to 'save me'. HA, what a joke.

Bottom line, I appreciate what you are saying, but the facts are that we cannot apply a blanket response to government assistance, because there are just too many people who do not fall under the 'too lazy and egotistical to get a job'., despite what whiny, rich people want you to believe. And, to address your idea of assisted relocation, why should I end my entire life in one area to move to a place where I have no fallback position, do not know anyone, and still fall into the statistic of 'too old/under skilled/over skilled/too much of a flight risk' to even be considered as a viable candidate for anything? You know, one thing I wish some people would do is admit 'The American Dream' is just empty propaganda. Because too many people, myself included, are proof that it is nothing more than that.

/BTW, thanks for debating this stuff with me. It is rare that you get real discussion and debate on the net anymore. For the most part, it just becomes an insult-fest full of people who prefer to sound like teenage d**ks rather than actually discuss anything.
 
2014-02-12 07:40:12 PM

tlars699: Are you sure you're getting a good tax rep for yourself?


Single male in suburban CA in apartment underpaid (but there's stock, and I'll get a nice bonus even if we explode.  Seriously, I was getting offered a near-six-figure signing bonus at one place and that only goes UP if we get acquired).  Getting a few hundred off because I moved across country.

There's not a whole lot you can do when you're single in an apartment.

NIMBY's + tech boom => high rents.  High rents => High incomes + roommates + Higher prices (which in turn lead to a vicious cycle of higher incomes => higher rents => higher incomes, until everyone NOT in the tech industry gets priced out, the NIMBY's burn in hell while they build high-rises, or the techies split their $5K/month apartment and laugh while pocketing an extra $30K every year).  High Incomes => High taxes.

Much as I biatch, if I'm NOT paying taxes, we have a problem.  Because I'm in the 92nd percentile of single households (Note: This does not account for COL.  If 92% of the population lived worse than I do, we'd have riots.  Lots of riots).  Sure, I'd like to pay less (~30% plus another 8% in payroll plus assorted other stuff), but if I'm at 5-10%*, we have issues or MUCH smaller safety nets.

*Like I was for the last few years.  Seriously, I got PAID on $20K of income.  Even with state taxes, I think I only paid like $400.  Making Work pay credit and Form 8863 for the win.
 
2014-02-12 07:44:58 PM

tlars699: Nidiot: Oh ffs, wah wah wah, it's costing taxpayers money therefore I have less money, so therefore the poors are getting my money, my money damn it, mine, I want it, wah wah wah.

The money you pay in taxes isn't going to be given back to you once the government has it, the only issue is about where it goes once the government has it, so get over it. Has anyone even worked out what a minuscule amount it would be if the money currently going to pay the unemployed were to be "given back"?

??? What are you on about? Aside from thunDERPipes and other politicians, who has said anything about taxes in this thread?

We should all be taxed a bit more, and have ACTUAL representation in our governing bodies.


There is plenty of whining in the thread that people are being paid to supposedly sit around and be lazy, if they are being paid by the government, then that is from your taxes, and I can vaguely see why there is the resentment, even though I don't agree with it. If people just like to biatch about people who are being paid to sit around and be lazy per se, I don't really see why they care. Also, there are plenty of better targets than the unemployed for that.

Not to mention  Clemkadidlefark: No one has ever explained why you .. yes you .. are entitled to other people's money ..  but he has been suitably addressed.
 
2014-02-12 08:00:24 PM

meyerkev: tlars699: Are you sure you're getting a good tax rep for yourself?

Single male in suburban CA in apartment underpaid (but there's stock, and I'll get a nice bonus even if we explode.  Seriously, I was getting offered a near-six-figure signing bonus at one place and that only goes UP if we get acquired).  Getting a few hundred off because I moved across country.

There's not a whole lot you can do when you're single in an apartment.

NIMBY's + tech boom => high rents.  High rents => High incomes + roommates + Higher prices (which in turn lead to a vicious cycle of higher incomes => higher rents => higher incomes, until everyone NOT in the tech industry gets priced out, the NIMBY's burn in hell while they build high-rises, or the techies split their $5K/month apartment and laugh while pocketing an extra $30K every year).  High Incomes => High taxes.

Much as I biatch, if I'm NOT paying taxes, we have a problem.  Because I'm in the 92nd percentile of single households (Note: This does not account for COL.  If 92% of the population lived worse than I do, we'd have riots.  Lots of riots).  Sure, I'd like to pay less (~30% plus another 8% in payroll plus assorted other stuff), but if I'm at 5-10%*, we have issues or MUCH smaller safety nets.

*Like I was for the last few years.  Seriously, I got PAID on $20K of income.  Even with state taxes, I think I only paid like $400.  Making Work pay credit and Form 8863 for the win.


True, and true- All of this is ringing true... Damn. Still sucks that your effective tax rate is higher than the other 1%.

You would think that cost of living would be associated with your taxes, somehow. But then again you're in CA, where everything is more expensive. :\
Ah well. Good luck to you.
 
2014-02-12 08:06:05 PM

Nidiot: tlars699: Nidiot: Oh ffs, wah wah wah, it's costing taxpayers money therefore I have less money, so therefore the poors are getting my money, my money damn it, mine, I want it, wah wah wah.

The money you pay in taxes isn't going to be given back to you once the government has it, the only issue is about where it goes once the government has it, so get over it. Has anyone even worked out what a minuscule amount it would be if the money currently going to pay the unemployed were to be "given back"?

??? What are you on about? Aside from thunDERPipes and other politicians, who has said anything about taxes in this thread?

We should all be taxed a bit more, and have ACTUAL representation in our governing bodies.

There is plenty of whining in the thread that people are being paid to supposedly sit around and be lazy, if they are being paid by the government, then that is from your taxes, and I can vaguely see why there is the resentment, even though I don't agree with it. If people just like to biatch about people who are being paid to sit around and be lazy per se, I don't really see why they care. Also, there are plenty of better targets than the unemployed for that.

Not to mention  Clemkadidlefark: No one has ever explained why you .. yes you .. are entitled to other people's money ..  but he has been suitably addressed.


Oh- okay. I get it.
LOL at the people who think that this benefit doesn't apply to them in the least. Hey, Buddy! Yeah, YOU! Guess what?!? These social safety nets are there for EVERYBODY to use, Just In Case.

Just like your roads, and your fire dept.'s, policey occifers, etc. EVERYONE needs this around, as insurance that nobody Has to go hungry or not get medical care, etc.

Just as payattention said: Bad Luck can string you out to dry, and it can happen to anybody.


That being said, I don't agree with the idea of " Well, I'm not going to apply to THAT job! It's beneath me!!" Um, no. You want help? Fine, but you gotta take what you can get. Everyone has to do it that way, no exceptions.
 
2014-02-12 09:00:39 PM

tlars699: True, and true- All of this is ringing true... Damn. Still sucks that your effective tax rate is higher than the other 1%.

You would think that cost of living would be associated with your taxes, somehow. But then again you're in CA, where everything is more expensive. :\
Ah well. Good luck to you.


Yeah, and there's stock.  Which is ALL capital gains (If it works).  And that only gets taxed at a marginal rate of 38% in CA (And uh, if you're getting capital gains income on an acquisition, you ONLY care about that $1 Million marginal rate.  No real point otherwise).

And like every other first-world country (Belgium's at 0%), we tax capital gains rates LOWER than regular income because trickle-down sort of, kind of, works.  Rich dudes want to get richer.  It's all about how they do it.  Creating risky, potentially globe-spanning corporations that promote American dominance across several fast-growing industries, providing cool new toys*, and employing thousands of people who can then be taxed is not the worst way.  In fact, it's a pretty good way.  And because of the inherent risk, you don't want to tax it like you tax income.  Hell, even FDR wasn't THAT stupid (He taxed investment like we tax income, and even then, you always have to count the loopholes).

The advantage of Henry Ford is not paying $5/day.  It's providing cheap transportation,  which then let you do all sorts of interesting other things (Among other things, replacing horses with tractors, which drives farming productivity up and food prices down), and created entire new industries which raised incomes.

The Youtube guys are RICH, but they gave you Youtube.  Steve Jobs was rich, but I'd run out of fingers counting the cool things that came from Jobs (and Apple basically collapsed without him), and the cool things that were developed on the Mac are legion (Among other things, OSX + 'nix VM is basically de riguer among tech companies, so Steve gets .01% of all the credit for everything coming out of the Valley).  Heck, even Larry Ellison gave us Oracle, which was basically *THE* database for a while, which let people do big data.  VC's are assholes, but if some guy can take $341 Million in funding and convert it into a $5 Billion company, and without the VC's that company wouldn't exist, they're necessary assholes.

It's all about the value-add.  At some point, somebody's going to get crazy, stupid rich off of 3d-printed clothing.  And it will be awesome because all of my clothing will finally fit.  That's the trickle-down.  They become a multi-multi-billionaire, and I get cheap bespoke clothing.  And maybe I work for them and get a percent or two.

/I admire the elegance of Canada's system.  $1 of capital gains counts as 50c of regular income.
//Though seriously, a company used to be Founders + Money + Engineers + Factory workers + hangers-on, with most workers being factory workers.  There were some exceptions, but if you were producing a shipped product, that was your model.  Today, it's Founders + Money + Engineers + hangers-on.  And everyone in that pile is getting really rich (albeit to different degrees), and factory workers got screwed, and America has a LOT of factory workers (who are slowly converting to hangers-on or engineers, but).  But at least they're getting screwed by internet companies based out of America, employing lots of highly-paid American Engineers and designers.  Could you imagine a world where that wasn't the case?
 
2014-02-12 09:03:57 PM

the money is in the banana stand: Cerebral Ballsy: That's all it is.. Figure out what you want, and how much you're willing to give up to get it.

A lot of what you said is true, however when you have a family to provide for - that all changes. You are going to want to put them in a good school and not live in the ghetto. You are going to want to make sure they eat healthy. You are going to want to buy them a car probably and put them through college. You are going to have to pay for a wedding assuming they get married. You might have your wife stay home to take care of the kids, thus creating another dependent. You are going to want to have a reliable and safe vehicle for your family. You are going to want to have nice toys etc. It gets expensive real fast. When it is just you, sure life is really easy and if that is forever satisfying to you - great, but some of us want or have families.


So you have a family.  And you want your wife to stay home.  Those are choices you made, and so you work more to support those choices.   I don't live in the ghetto, by the way, I live in a small apartment near downtown in a wealthy neighborhood.

I'm female.. if I were to fit into that stereotypical family arrangement, I'd be the one staying at home.  That's my personal nightmare.
 
kth
2014-02-12 09:39:59 PM

tlars699: madgonad: tlars699: Thunderpipes:
Yay! Jobs! Now, question, these fictional acquaintances of yours, did they find a job so fast in pay comparable or better than their old job or did they get a job so low in pay that it won't even cover basic needs?

Bet it pays better than unemployment. Bet it keeps them active. Bet it doesn't cost taxpayers as much. Bet it makes them better people.

Unemployment pays 2/3 of your previous wages. At 20$/hour, that's a little over 13$/hour.
Minimum wage pays what, 8$/hour?

Keeps them active? How? By going onto a computer and putting in job applications online all day? Sounds like the opposite of active.

And how in the world would it make them better people? By learning to live with less, by starving, by having to give up on the American Dream?
How do you know that will work in that way? Is it because you have so few brain cells?

No it doesn't. You have no idea what you are talking about. I spent 4 months on unemployment and it paid $250/wk minus taxes. That is the maximum that anyone could be paid. The position I got downsized out of paid $48k, so unemployment paid me a bit over 1/4 of my working salary. Maybe it is 2/3 for people already making bupkis, but the discussion here was about skilled people that can perform much higher paying jobs that need time to find another one.

Do you live in WI?
Maybe my knowledge doesn't apply to you. OR MAYBE it is up to 2/3 of what you were previously making OR 250$, whichever is lower.
I thought the discussion was about how good or bad it will be for the people who have their unemployment benefits cut, regardless of position, but related to how long they are on unemployment.

Also, if you only are making 250/wk on unemployment, methinks you can get better pay than that if you just let your ego deflate a little bit.


I think it must depend on state, I got the max, which was more than $250, but less than 40% of my prior salary. I started looking before I was actually off the payroll, because I knew what was coming given my experience running a business of my own.

Also, if I made less than some amount the balance to that amount was made up, which allowed me to feel more comfortable about taking a lower paying job. Fortunately, it was for a seasonal position for which I was way overqualified, and which had a possibility of becoming permanent for one or two of us. I went in every damn day, was positive, helpful and awesome. A couple of weeks later, I was wooed away by another department for a permanent job (traded for a six-pack of boulevard beer and a Timothy Geithner rookie card). If there's a company that is up your alley in your area, anything to get in the door and then move to your level.

I was lucky in that I had a second income (i got laid off ten days after moving in with my now-husband). More than unemployment going away, I was running out of COBRA insurance and was going to have to get married earlier than planned because his insurance didn't cover domestic partners.
 
2014-02-12 10:04:12 PM
We die.
 
2014-02-12 10:31:11 PM

new_york_monty: fat_free: new_york_monty: meyerkev: fat_free: 49K for an IT Manager???

Depends where you are.

$49K in a blue state?  What are you, stupid?  Frigging janitors make more than you, because wages are so high because of the damn rent taking it all.
$49K in a red state?  Damn, that's like a house and a yard + 2 kids + dog before we add in the wife's matching salary.  What are you doing right?

/Overgeneralization (It's more Coastal cities vs. Everyone else), but.

Not to mention it was a decade ago.

If you take a job as an IT Manager for less than 25 bucks an hour, you are either a bad hire who can't find anything else or a tard. Or both.

Not my field, so I have no real idea about that. Maybe it's true where you are. But like the guy above me said, money spends a lot different in the country, and pay scales tend to be commensurate. Frankly, you come across as someone who's never traveled toward the middle of the country, but still thinks he knows what life is like there.


Not my farking prob if u wanna stay in BumblefarkIntheDuck Missourah and make min wage, come to Texas and make ya some money, stupid!
 
2014-02-12 11:11:09 PM

Smeggy Smurf: If you don't have the government enabling you to sit on the couch you'll do what your grandparents did and move to where the work is.  I hear the Dakotas and Texas are hiring.


My grandparents were born in, grew up in, and worked nearly their entire lives in a country where they didn't have to compete against minorities, women, gays, or even Catholics. So excuse me if I don't feel all that impressed by their legendary work ethic. If you eliminated more than half the potential workforce out there by blatantly discriminating against them, I'm sure I'd be getting paid more too.
 
2014-02-12 11:32:25 PM

The Dog Ate My Homework: My grandparents were born in, grew up in, and worked nearly their entire lives in a country where they didn't have to compete against minorities, women, gays, or even Catholics


Russia? China? Iran?
 
2014-02-12 11:35:37 PM
by dipping into their trust funds?
 
2014-02-12 11:39:55 PM

GBB: [www.washingtonpost.com image 296x586]
Much like global warming, the trend is obvious, so surely it will be refuted refudiated.


ftfy
 
2014-02-12 11:41:20 PM

Bucky Katt: GBB: [www.washingtonpost.com image 296x586]
Much like global warming, the trend is obvious, so surely it will be refuted refudiated.

ftfy


Gerard Depardieudiated
 
2014-02-12 11:48:04 PM

Smeggy Smurf: If you don't have the government enabling you to sit on the couch you'll do what your grandparents did and move to where the work is.  I hear the Dakotas and Texas are hiring.


Oh well, shiat, what's their problem then, right? All they need to do is find a job there and move. I mean THE WHOLE STATE is hiring! Now tell me, how does one work in a state they can't afford to move to? Oh right, fark off. My grandparents didn't move to where the jobs were, because those people were called hobos. And it didn't work.
 
2014-02-12 11:49:52 PM

Egoy3k: 2KanZam: I used to dismiss the idea that these extended unemployement benefits keep people from working by allowing them to live off the gov't.

But I have a few (lazy) acquaintences whom have been laid off for some time now and "couldn't find a job anywhere"...well as soon as their benefits were cut recently, *POOF* they suddenly both came up with jobs!

Huh, whodathunkit? (seriously, I had no idea some people really were THAT lazy)

Lazy? fark you.

I was on unemployment after I lost my engineering job in 2008 and once that ran out I ran right out and got a job too!  I taught drafting for 4 hours a day in a location that was an 1 hour drive away.  Then I got a job in a call center for 30% of my previous wage. I was barely able to pay my student debt, I nearly went bankrupt, and I had to move back in with my mother for 8 months.  It's a good thing that makes me lazy though because otherwise I might have had the energy to put a gun in my mouth.

The good news is that I got an engineering job in 2010 and  I'll be out from under the associated debts of my hiatus from earning a decent wage by 2015.  The thing is I'm aprivileged white male with an excellent family support structure and while I never asked for orreceived a single handout I knew that one would be forthcoming if I did ask.  I had the ability to fix my problems and it still nearly ruined me.  What about all the people who don't have the numerous advantages that I have?


a very good question
 
2014-02-12 11:58:46 PM

postnobills: I don't know how others are doing it, but I've been living off savings for going on 11 months now... I've applied for over 400 jobs and had maybe a dozen interviews - I've got another one tomorrow. Fingers crossed!


good luck
 
2014-02-13 12:07:07 AM

fat_free: new_york_monty: fat_free: new_york_monty: meyerkev: fat_free: 49K for an IT Manager???

Depends where you are.

$49K in a blue state?  What are you, stupid?  Frigging janitors make more than you, because wages are so high because of the damn rent taking it all.
$49K in a red state?  Damn, that's like a house and a yard + 2 kids + dog before we add in the wife's matching salary.  What are you doing right?

/Overgeneralization (It's more Coastal cities vs. Everyone else), but.

Not to mention it was a decade ago.

If you take a job as an IT Manager for less than 25 bucks an hour, you are either a bad hire who can't find anything else or a tard. Or both.

Not my field, so I have no real idea about that. Maybe it's true where you are. But like the guy above me said, money spends a lot different in the country, and pay scales tend to be commensurate. Frankly, you come across as someone who's never traveled toward the middle of the country, but still thinks he knows what life is like there.

Not my farking prob if u wanna stay in BumblefarkIntheDuck Missourah and make min wage, come to Texas and make ya some money, stupid!


You do realize this wasn't ever about me, right? For what it's worth, I live no where near Missouri, and I haven't made minimum wage since I was a kid in high school on Long Island. But you reinforced my previous point nicely.
 
2014-02-13 02:39:59 AM
24.media.tumblr.com
 
2014-02-13 02:44:41 AM
25.media.tumblr.com
 
2014-02-13 02:48:58 AM

Cerebral Ballsy: Haha, I am barely employed. I enjoy a very nice lifestyle. I travel. I take more college classes (working on a second degree).

I have never in my life taken welfare. I've never taken unemployment. People wonder how I work so little. The answer is: I live within my means. I am self employed but have taken jobs here and there to add to my income before. I've been doing this for my whole life. It blows people's f*cking minds.


This.  I work about 1/10 as hard as most people I know, for about 1/3 the money.  Buy good quality used stuff, instead of all-new craptastic stuff, and you can live a very nice life.

/got my last Armani suit for fifty bucks, plus twenty more for dry cleaning and tailoring.
 
2014-02-13 03:35:12 AM

PunkTiger: I've been out of work for 4 years. Two of those years, I couldn't really search for work seriously because I was on dialysis (I had been since 2005 -- don't fark up your kidneys, folks, that crap ain't fun). The third year (2012), I was recovering from a kidney transplant. Last year (and into this year), I've been actively searching for employment and finding very little available. After I stopped receiving unemployment benefits (I took myself off of them because I couldn't, in good faith, keep looking for work -- being on dialysis and all that), I've been living partly on disability benefits (that will end February 2015), a severance payment from my old job, and my life savings.

I'm 50 years old and facing an uphill battle in the job market. I'm not looking for handouts, I'm looking for a job that pays above minimum wage so I can get back on my feet again.

All that being said, I have a hard time believing that the federal government actually gives a leaping G-d damn for people who are still unemployed after their benefits have run out.


Start a website that is like /. + some 4-chan, but as easie to use as Fark
Uncensored, unfiltered,
Charge one dollar a month, for blathering rights.
liters get 99 characters.
seriously,
if you can pull it off, you'll be rich.

you could call it  'Fishwife'
 
2014-02-13 09:13:25 AM

K.B.O. Winston: YixilTesiphon: meat0918: A guy with an engineering degree shouldn't be working as a burger flipper.

What if nobody wants to employ him to be an engineer?

You guys talk about jobs as if they go to the highest educated bidder.  As someone with a degree that had to look for that kind of work for a while I'm here to tell you....  THEY DON'T WANT YOU.

I was told by a few people they liked my hustle and work ethic, they just couldn't justify hiring someone with a degree who could switch jobs down the road when they could instead hire a single parent struggling to make ends meet.  That second candidate could truly need that job for the rest of their life.

People who hire for burger flipping jobs hate turnover.  They avoid 'flight risks' whenever possible.


Then don't tell them about your degree genius.
 
2014-02-13 12:04:13 PM

Far Cough: wildcardjack: Yeah, I have a BS in mechanical engineering and I wouldn't be fit to work in the average burger joint. The griddles are built to 39" and I'm 6'5", I'd have to bend over to flip burgers. That's not a long term option.

If only there were someone with the skill set and credentials to craft, to devise, to design, to, er, what's the technical term, figger out a solution to that physical griddle height issue.   :)


Ah, but the economics of the situation are that I can be replaced by a 5'0" mexican who is the height the grills were made for. My dream kitchen isn't commercially viable.
 
2014-02-13 08:34:53 PM

PC LOAD LETTER: Smeggy Smurf: If you don't have the government enabling you to sit on the couch you'll do what your grandparents did and move to where the work is.  I hear the Dakotas and Texas are hiring.

Oh well, shiat, what's their problem then, right? All they need to do is find a job there and move. I mean THE WHOLE STATE is hiring! Now tell me, how does one work in a state they can't afford to move to? Oh right, fark off. My grandparents didn't move to where the jobs were, because those people were called hobos. And it didn't work.



This is pretty late, so doubtful it matters, but everything you said seems totally wrong.

Maybe I'll catch a lucky thread close and get the last word...
 
2014-02-13 08:39:23 PM

noitsnot: PC LOAD LETTER: Smeggy Smurf: If you don't have the government enabling you to sit on the couch you'll do what your grandparents did and move to where the work is.  I hear the Dakotas and Texas are hiring.

Oh well, shiat, what's their problem then, right? All they need to do is find a job there and move. I mean THE WHOLE STATE is hiring! Now tell me, how does one work in a state they can't afford to move to? Oh right, fark off. My grandparents didn't move to where the jobs were, because those people were called hobos. And it didn't work.


This is pretty late, so doubtful it matters, but everything you said seems totally wrong.

Maybe I'll catch a lucky thread close and get the last word...


The last word?
 
2014-02-13 08:41:42 PM

Far Cough: noitsnot: PC LOAD LETTER: Smeggy Smurf: If you don't have the government enabling you to sit on the couch you'll do what your grandparents did and move to where the work is.  I hear the Dakotas and Texas are hiring.

Oh well, shiat, what's their problem then, right? All they need to do is find a job there and move. I mean THE WHOLE STATE is hiring! Now tell me, how does one work in a state they can't afford to move to? Oh right, fark off. My grandparents didn't move to where the jobs were, because those people were called hobos. And it didn't work.


This is pretty late, so doubtful it matters, but everything you said seems totally wrong.

Maybe I'll catch a lucky thread close and get the last word...

The last word?


DOH!
 
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