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(Talking Points Memo)   SC Gov "Nikki" Haley: let people carry guns without any training or permits, even in bars? Sure, why not? I mean really, what's the worst that could happen?   (talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 232
    More: Dumbass, South Carolina, Nikki Haley, business license, Beretta  
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1456 clicks; posted to Politics » on 12 Feb 2014 at 12:54 PM (24 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-02-12 11:34:53 AM
Ideally, evolution would happen and the idiots will shoot themselves.

Realistically, lots more headlines on Fark from SC regarding innocent people getting shot, possibly prompting it to have its own tag.
 
2014-02-12 11:44:02 AM
So, very similar to the legislation that Arizona has? Because let me tell you, since that law went into effect three years ago it has been nothing but bloodbaths in the streets.

Oh wait, no, the opposite of that.
 
2014-02-12 12:15:22 PM
When I read stories like this, I'm reminded of old Westerns where lawless towns were cleaned up and made safe for citizens to walk down the street without wearing a gun. In retrospect, I now see how very silly that idea was. Thoroughly and utterly unprogressive.
 
2014-02-12 12:54:41 PM

DrBenway: When I read stories like this, I'm reminded of old Westerns where lawless towns were cleaned up and made safe for citizens to walk down the street without wearing a gun. In retrospect, I now see how very silly that idea was. Thoroughly and utterly unprogressive.


The most iconic moment in the lore of "the Old West"  was the shoot-out at the OK Corral.  A shootout that occurred when the local sheriff tried to enforce a city ordinance banning the carrying of guns within town limits.  I wonder why the NRA glosses over that fact when they wax nostalgic about  about those days?  To them Wyatt Earp should be cast as the villain of the piece, trying to deny the Constitutional rights of innocent gun owners, no?
 
2014-02-12 12:55:37 PM

TonnageVT: Ideally, evolution would happen and the idiots will shoot themselves.


technically speaking evolution would only ensure the most capable shots survive which would probably be linked to aggression and psychopathy
 
2014-02-12 12:56:20 PM

TwistedIvory: So, very similar to the legislation that Arizona has? Because let me tell you, since that law went into effect three years ago it has been nothing but bloodbaths in the streets.

Oh wait, no, the opposite of that.


Really? Not a lot of rest home shootings, you say?

I can understand everyone arming themselves, though, what with all those Mexican entering the country illegally just to decapitate people.
 
DGS [TotalFark]
2014-02-12 12:56:30 PM
Well this is one way to thin the herd.
 
2014-02-12 12:56:56 PM
In a perfect world, Nikki, nobody would get shot but you.
 
2014-02-12 12:57:40 PM
Well, I see SC is taking its claim as the national capital of "Hold my beer and watch this," seriously.
 
2014-02-12 12:58:27 PM
Having never been, how much in SC is worth saving at this point?
 
2014-02-12 12:59:23 PM
It's hard to take anyone with a name of Nikki seriously, it's a porn name.
 
2014-02-12 12:59:33 PM
I'm fine with firearms in bars, not so fine with the "no required education" bit.
 
2014-02-12 12:59:43 PM
They should also let felons and people in prisons and people with protection orders have guns. It's obvious what the 2nd Amendment says.. no regulations! Crime will disappear if we'd just do this!
 
2014-02-12 01:00:43 PM
I see subby is still running with the "THE STREETS WILL RUN RED WITH BLOOD" hysteria
 
2014-02-12 01:02:37 PM

Summoner101: Having never been, how much in SC is worth saving at this point?


A couple of peach trees and the Colbert family. The rest can go.
 
2014-02-12 01:03:30 PM
OK.  then let's also let people drive without a license or training.  what's the worst that could happen?
 
2014-02-12 01:04:25 PM

Frank N Stein: I see subby is still running with the "THE STREETS WILL RUN RED WITH BLOOD" hysteria


I see you are still running with "let us just arm everyone and see what happens". What a joyous society that would be.
 
2014-02-12 01:06:49 PM
Just a simple progression of removing restrictions until you run into a problem.  We have allowed carry with training and removed some location restrictions without any major problems...  If this causes problems we can assume we have found the floor.  If no problems then we can go even farther.
 
2014-02-12 01:08:07 PM

LessO2: It's hard to take anyone with a name of Nikki seriously, it's a porn name.


Just like "Bobby" Jindal, what kind of grown-ass man still wants to be called "Bobby"?  -One who knows the racists in his own party would never vote for a man named Piyush, that's who.  Same with "Nikki" Haley, Nimrata Nikki Randhawa Haley  uses on of her middle names because it SOUNDS like an American misspelling of Nicky, and she looks white enough that people assume it is and that way she doesn't have to explain to people that while her father MAY wear a turban, no, he is not an evil moos-lim
 
2014-02-12 01:08:13 PM
www.replikultes.net

Seamus McFly does not support
 
2014-02-12 01:08:17 PM
We need training to operate a backhoe. We need training to drive a car. We need training to swing a bat. We need training to use a computer. We need training to even friggin operate a cash register.

But to carry a tool that can easily cause the death of another individual through misuse? Meh.
 
2014-02-12 01:09:43 PM
I carry a 20mm oerlikon because freedom


Suck it libby libturds
 
2014-02-12 01:10:19 PM

Saiga410: Just a simple progression of removing restrictions until you run into a problem.  We have allowed carry with training and removed some location restrictions without any major problems...  If this causes problems we can assume we have found the floor.  If no problems then we can go even farther.


Alaska was awesome in regards to concealed carry. Coming from Illinois to a place with constitutional carry was great. Same with open carry. Though I rarely concealed carry, there were quite a few times where I went for a hike with my bear gun, then stopped at a place to grab a bite to eat or something.
 
2014-02-12 01:11:03 PM

Lord_Baull: We need training to operate a backhoe. We need training to drive a car. We need training to swing a bat. We need training to use a computer. We need training to even friggin operate a cash register.


I think the internet would be a whole lot better if we actually did require training before someone was allowed to use a computer.
 
2014-02-12 01:11:51 PM

The Third Man: I think the internet would be a whole lot better if we actually did require training before someone was allowed to use a computer.


At least require a permit to carry CAPS-LOCK
 
2014-02-12 01:12:12 PM

Magorn: LessO2: It's hard to take anyone with a name of Nikki seriously, it's a porn name.

Just like "Bobby" Jindal, what kind of grown-ass man still wants to be called "Bobby"?  -One who knows the racists in his own party would never vote for a man named Piyush, that's who.  Same with "Nikki" Haley, Nimrata Nikki Randhawa Haley  uses on of her middle names because it SOUNDS like an American misspelling of Nicky, and she looks white enough that people assume it is and that way she doesn't have to explain to people that while her father MAY wear a turban, no, he is not an evil moos-lim


img.fark.net
 
2014-02-12 01:12:15 PM

Lord_Baull: We need training to operate a backhoe. We need training to drive a car. We need training to swing a bat. We need training to use a computer. We need training to even friggin operate a cash register.

But to carry a tool that can easily cause the death of another individual through misuse? Meh.


OK but none of that training is required by law.  Proficiency and knowledge of the laws surrounding driving a car maybe but the rest.... nope not seeing your point.
 
2014-02-12 01:12:47 PM
what about ninja stars & nunchaku?
are those legal to carry in SC?

shouldnt' there be a nonlethal alternative for citizens who would rather show off their wicked martial arts talents?
 
2014-02-12 01:12:49 PM

Lord_Baull: We need training to operate a backhoe. We need training to drive a car. We need training to swing a bat. We need training to use a computer. We need training to even friggin operate a cash register.

But to carry a tool that can easily cause the death of another individual through misuse? Meh.


But those are not CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS!!! Or something...
 
2014-02-12 01:15:00 PM
I don't see what the problem is with allowing responsible gun owners to carry weapons anywhere they want. It's a little like Pit Bulls in that, until they do something horrible, they're perfectly fine dogs, and then if something bad happens it's the owners fault, and then that's what the court system is for.
 
2014-02-12 01:15:41 PM

Frank N Stein: I see subby is still running with the "THE STREETS WILL RUN RED WITH BLOOD" hysteria


"What's the worst that could happen?" is quite a bit different from "hysteria."  But hey, go ahead and make sure the observable world fits your narrative.  That's the important thing.
 
2014-02-12 01:15:50 PM
Yep, she is Indian so probably never drinks or sets foot in a bar. Why would she care if the drunks running around shooting each other?
 
2014-02-12 01:15:58 PM
Oh noes!  She's suggested they follow in the lead of that blood soaked hell hole...

VERMONT!
 
2014-02-12 01:17:15 PM

Frank N Stein: I see subby is still running with the "THE STREETS WILL RUN RED WITH BLOOD" hysteria


No subby is going with the "guns kill and injure people in accidents and accidental discharges at a rate FAR higher than the rate they are used in self defense, and alcohol is often a factor in both unintentional and intentional shootings, therefore lowering education requirements for gun handling and increasing the likelihood that they will be carried by someone who has also consumed alcohol, is a BAD thing and poorly thought out public policy"

/subby

//like guns, shoot them for fun.
///Big believer that "subject to reasonable restrictions as to time place and manner to advance a compelling state interest" applies to the 2nd amendment just as much as the first or any other amendment
 
2014-02-12 01:17:38 PM

Magorn: DrBenway: When I read stories like this, I'm reminded of old Westerns where lawless towns were cleaned up and made safe for citizens to walk down the street without wearing a gun. In retrospect, I now see how very silly that idea was. Thoroughly and utterly unprogressive.

The most iconic moment in the lore of "the Old West"  was the shoot-out at the OK Corral.  A shootout that occurred when the local sheriff tried to enforce a city ordinance banning the carrying of guns within town limits.  I wonder why the NRA glosses over that fact when they wax nostalgic about  about those days?  To them Wyatt Earp should be cast as the villain of the piece, trying to deny the Constitutional rights of innocent gun owners, no?


Part of me wishes that something like the shower scene from The Rock happens, and all these tough-guy "I'll carry my piece where I wanna carry my piece!" just blast away at each other in a Stuckey's over an unkind word and someone dropping a plate.

I mean, surely if it's impermissible to wear a gun and have any alcohol in a bar, these law-abiding citizens - who have many times let us know that if gun laws were tighter, they'd own all the illegal guns they can fit in an underground bunker - would never dream of imbibing the Bad Decision Juice while wearing hip-iron, right?

The total lack of DWI/DUIs in South Carolina is further proof that alcohol and firearms law may as well be gospel in the Palmetto State.
 
2014-02-12 01:17:44 PM

FnkyTwn: I don't see what the problem is with allowing responsible gun owners to carry weapons anywhere they want. It's a little like Pit Bulls in that, until they do something horrible, they're perfectly fine dogs, and then if something bad happens it's the owners fault, and then that's what the court system is for.


The problem is that if violent crime rates do not notably increase, especially rates of crime committed by people who are legally carrying firearms in public, then firearm regulation advocates who oppose such measures will appear to be irrational and stupid.
 
2014-02-12 01:18:14 PM

TonnageVT: Ideally, evolution would happen and the idiots will shoot themselves.

Realistically, lots more headlines on Fark from SC regarding innocent people getting shot, possibly prompting it to have its own tag.


Ultimately, it's a self-correcting problem and the populations will self-segregate.  There will be the places where everyone is armed (many of the dive bars I frequented in college) and everyone knows it, and there will be places where no one is armed (franchise restaurant/bars I hang out in now).  Those looking to score or get involved in shady pool games will go to one, and those looking to play Golden Tee until 2 a.m. will end up at the other.
 
2014-02-12 01:18:59 PM

HMS_Blinkin: Frank N Stein: I see subby is still running with the "THE STREETS WILL RUN RED WITH BLOOD" hysteria

"What's the worst that could happen?" is quite a bit different from "hysteria."  But hey, go ahead and make sure the observable world fits your narrative.  That's the important thing.


So you're running with the oft-used "concern troll" trope that's cited so much around here. I'm really not trying to sound like a passive aggressive dick or anything, but either say what you think will be the outcome or don't speculate.

/really, sorry if I come off as abrasive. Can't really figure out a way to phrase this where I don't come off as kind of a dick.
 
2014-02-12 01:19:12 PM
Well it worked for these guys.....

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2014-02-12 01:21:56 PM

Frank N Stein: Saiga410: Just a simple progression of removing restrictions until you run into a problem.  We have allowed carry with training and removed some location restrictions without any major problems...  If this causes problems we can assume we have found the floor.  If no problems then we can go even farther.

Alaska was awesome in regards to concealed carry. Coming from Illinois to a place with constitutional carry was great. Same with open carry. Though I rarely concealed carry, there were quite a few times where I went for a hike with my bear gun, then stopped at a place to grab a bite to eat or something.


See? and this is why gun advocates need to realize that different states have different legitimate interests in firearm restriction.  Alaska is the least populated and largest state in the union, a place where being attacked by bears while going about your daily activities is not all that unlikely.   Carrying a gun is a prudent thing for many residents.   The same rules don;t really apply to say a multi-story apartment in Chicago where even an accidental discharge is likely to hit and injure somebody and being attacked by bears is really only likely on North Halstead.
 
2014-02-12 01:23:08 PM

Dr Dreidel: Magorn: DrBenway: When I read stories like this, I'm reminded of old Westerns where lawless towns were cleaned up and made safe for citizens to walk down the street without wearing a gun. In retrospect, I now see how very silly that idea was. Thoroughly and utterly unprogressive.

The most iconic moment in the lore of "the Old West"  was the shoot-out at the OK Corral.  A shootout that occurred when the local sheriff tried to enforce a city ordinance banning the carrying of guns within town limits.  I wonder why the NRA glosses over that fact when they wax nostalgic about  about those days?  To them Wyatt Earp should be cast as the villain of the piece, trying to deny the Constitutional rights of innocent gun owners, no?

Part of me wishes that something like the shower scene from The Rock happens, and all these tough-guy "I'll carry my piece where I wanna carry my piece!" just blast away at each other in a Stuckey's over an unkind word and someone dropping a plate.

I mean, surely if it's impermissible to wear a gun and have any alcohol in a bar, these law-abiding citizens - who have many times let us know that if gun laws were tighter, they'd own all the illegal guns they can fit in an underground bunker - would never dream of imbibing the Bad Decision Juice while wearing hip-iron, right?

The total lack of DWI/DUIs in South Carolina is further proof that alcohol and firearms law may as well be gospel in the Palmetto State.


As several states already allow the carrying of concealed firearms by licensed citizens in establishments where alcohol is served, then substantial data should exist to show that those states experience a higher rate of violent incidents caused by licensed firearm carriers who became intoxicated in such an establishment
 
2014-02-12 01:23:48 PM

Magorn: Frank N Stein: I see subby is still running with the "THE STREETS WILL RUN RED WITH BLOOD" hysteria

No subby is going with the "guns kill and injure people in accidents and accidental discharges at a rate FAR higher than the rate they are used in self defense, and alcohol is often a factor in both unintentional and intentional shootings, therefore lowering education requirements for gun handling and increasing the likelihood that they will be carried by someone who has also consumed alcohol, is a BAD thing and poorly thought out public policy"

/subby

//like guns, shoot them for fun.
///Big believer that "subject to reasonable restrictions as to time place and manner to advance a compelling state interest" applies to the 2nd amendment just as much as the first or any other amendment


I also believe in reasonable restrictions. Though I think we differ on what the "reasonable" part constitutes.

As for the rest, a person up thread cited Vermont having similar laws. I get that there's different demographics and what not that might lead to different outcomes. But as far as I know, concealed carry isn't causing these massive death tolls that some have predicted. And I also agree that one should never handle a firearm while intoxicated. But "bars", in the case of most states, are defined as a place that gets a large percentage (usually 59) of their revenue from alcohol sales. Stopping off at a bar for a burger at lunch, without consuming alcohol, should effect whether a person can carry or not
 
2014-02-12 01:25:15 PM

Frank N Stein: I see subby is still running with the "THE STREETS WILL RUN RED WITH BLOOD" hysteria


Here's the thing.  The majority of gun owners will probably NOT go running around like Rick Perry wildly firing into the air.  However, there are those few who WILL.  There are those who WILL use their firearm to resolve a civil dispute rather than talking things out.  And innocent people WILL die as a result.  The NRA will jump to defend the people who bully others around waving their firearms in their faces, saying "They're just law abiding people, exercising their rights", and they'll be correct.  If there are no laws against using a gun to threaten or intimidate, then all those who do that ARE "law-abiding"...if there are no restrictions about where and when and how you can use your gun, then everyone who shoots one anywhere IS "law-abiding".

Out of morbid curiosity, I wonder what would happen if I were to wear a claw-dagger to a bar...I'd be exercising my rights, and no one would have the right to be frightened of it, according to the NRA.  They couldn't kick me out for wearing it, either.  Even into a school, or better yet, a city council meeting.  "Tell me again, Mr Councilman, What PRECISELY you think about the condition of the roads in these here parts?"

// Not afraid of weapons of any kind...I've had too much training/practice to be afraid of any of them.  Only afraid of some of the nutcases that carry them.
 
2014-02-12 01:25:27 PM
 upload.wikimedia.org

Subby thinks she's a dumbass. Subby doesn't understand reality. Every state now allows some form of carrt. Most states allow carry in places where alcohol is served, but it is usually illegal to carry in public when consuming alcohol. There are penalties for breaking the law.

In a few years time, every state up there will at least be shall-issue. By that time, expect to see more states with no carry requirements at all. Haley has stated she will sign a Constitutional Carry law if it made it to her desk.
 
2014-02-12 01:26:23 PM

Magorn: Frank N Stein: Saiga410: Just a simple progression of removing restrictions until you run into a problem.  We have allowed carry with training and removed some location restrictions without any major problems...  If this causes problems we can assume we have found the floor.  If no problems then we can go even farther.

Alaska was awesome in regards to concealed carry. Coming from Illinois to a place with constitutional carry was great. Same with open carry. Though I rarely concealed carry, there were quite a few times where I went for a hike with my bear gun, then stopped at a place to grab a bite to eat or something.

See? and this is why gun advocates need to realize that different states have different legitimate interests in firearm restriction.  Alaska is the least populated and largest state in the union, a place where being attacked by bears while going about your daily activities is not all that unlikely.   Carrying a gun is a prudent thing for many residents.   The same rules don;t really apply to say a multi-story apartment in Chicago where even an accidental discharge is likely to hit and injure somebody and being attacked by bears is really only likely on North Halstead.


What's funny is that I've lived all over Chicago. The south side, the Bridgeport neighborhood to be exact, was my favorite neighborhood in Chicago. I'm on the west side now, and it feels less safe than Bridgeport. And the only place I was I actually attacked was on the north side (got into a fist fight with some guy)
 
2014-02-12 01:27:39 PM

Lord_Baull: We need training to operate a backhoe. We need training to drive a car. We need training to swing a bat. We need training to use a computer. We need training to even friggin operate a cash register.

But to carry a tool that can easily cause the death of another individual through misuse? Meh.


FTFY.

Seriously, the only way it doesn't kill another individual is if it's misused.  If it's used the way it's intended, something's gonna die.
 
2014-02-12 01:27:41 PM

A Cave Geek: Out of morbid curiosity, I wonder what would happen if I were to wear a claw-dagger to a bar...I'd be exercising my rights, and no one would have the right to be frightened of it, according to the NRA.  They couldn't kick me out for wearing it, either.


You are correct, because private establishments are not allowed, in any state, to request that persons leave the premises.
 
2014-02-12 01:28:17 PM
Gun insurance.
Carry guns wherever you want, but you will be subsidizing cleanup for the inevitable accidents caused by your little toys.
 
2014-02-12 01:28:57 PM
Dimensio:
As several states already allow the carrying of concealed firearms by licensed citizens in establishments where alcohol is served, then substantial data should exist to show that those states experience a higher rate of violent incidents caused by licensed firearm carriers who became intoxicated in such an establishment

Woh, stop it with this fascist "we should legislate from facts instead of gut reaction."  If  this goes through I am certain we are all going to die.
 
2014-02-12 01:28:59 PM

pueblonative: Lord_Baull: We need training to operate a backhoe. We need training to drive a car. We need training to swing a bat. We need training to use a computer. We need training to even friggin operate a cash register.

But to carry a tool that can easily cause the death of another individual through misuse? Meh.

FTFY.

Seriously, the only way it doesn't kill another individual is if it's misused.  If it's used the way it's intended, something's gonna die.


Are you saying that I have misused my firearms on every occasion that I have taken them to a local firing range?

Did attaching my silencer to my handgun cause it to be misused also, or was it properly used (as a noise reduction tool) while the handgun itself was misused?
 
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