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(Politico)   "The Millennial-Industrial Complex" This has nothing to do with helping Millennials get into the workforce and everything about how best to screw them over politically   (politico.com) divider line 21
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1098 clicks; posted to Politics » on 12 Feb 2014 at 8:03 AM (23 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-02-12 10:32:51 AM
4 votes:

somedude210: abb3w: Except for the (likely huge) fraction stupid enough to believe that it was caused by over-regulation rather than under-regulation.

I admit, I don't have access to much polling data on whether they're more or less likely than the average American to think it's over-regulation rather than under-regulation

No, I don't think you're gonna see a great mass push towards less regulation because they've witnessed firsthand just what under-regulation does to both them and the world as a whole. You will see some libertarian ideals come through, such as getting government out of the bedroom and legalization of some drugs, but they're not gonna go the "GET THE GUBERMENT OUTTA MY MEDICAID" route.


I'm part of the Millennial generation, and the biggest determiner amongst my less-politically-informed friends is the perception of assholeishness.  Seriously.  Most people my age think the Republicans are dicks for treating gay people so poorly, saying unkind things about immigrants, vilifying women for their biology, their over-blown reaction to weed, and kicking the poor when they're down.  In many cases they can certainly be as under-informed and easily led as any other major American demographic, but my generation is very socially concerned and very empathetic as a whole.  We have been exposed to all kinds of socially liberal propaganda through modern children's programming and school-led volunteer efforts, and all our internetting allows us access to an enormous diversity of people and lifestyles.  We had also assumed that birth control was generally an awesome thing, so we're all super confused by all the hoopla over it.  So if you're being a dick about something, we're going to notice and dislike it.  The Republican consultant consensus is generally correct--if they could get better at positive messaging they probably would sway some young voters.  But instead they keep going ultra-negative and offensive.

Of course, there's some social issues that the majority of Millennials are not budging on--gay rights, drug policy, women's rights, a certain level of immigrant rights.  So the consistently negative GOP focus on social issues is just DOA, but they're not even offering any viable alternatives.  The Democratic party was smart to finally get fully behind gay rights, and the President's recent comments on pot lead me to believe that they're going to start lining up in favor of that as well.  And really, as the Democrats get behind weed as a party, a lot of the "libertarian" faction will return to the fold (sorry real Libertarians, but thems the breaks).  If the Democrats also get behind net neutrality in a big way they'll steal even more back.

As a generation, we want to be able to live our lives free from mean-spirited, unnecessary social regulation, and we want a solid social/governmental infrastructure to make living those lives easier and safer.  We don't think anyone's whole life should be ruined over a single mistake, losing a job, having poor parents, smoking some weed, getting pregnant, or being gay.  We're generally nice, conflict-adverse, and we have really bought into this whole "equality" thing.  So all the libertarian student groups in the world will not save the conservative movement unless the GOP backs off on the hardline social agenda and starts sounding nicer.
2014-02-12 03:14:03 PM
2 votes:

somedude210: WTF Indeed: somedude210: I don't understand how no one knows how they side politically? They're incredibly socially liberal (compared to the rest of the voting public) and sorta fiscally conservative socialist. They don't want to get completely screwed over by the Boomers blowing up the economy while also wanting the feds to be there to help out if/when they need it.

It's not how they vote now, it's how they will vote when they are 30.

Again, like the generation that lived through the depression, I think you'll see these kids be more pessimistic with how they'll do financially and will look to the feds to help out more and will be far more open-minded socially.


It depends.

I think that the conservatives lost the social fight.  End of story.  The Gay marriage ship has sailed.  They're queer, they're here, they're actually pretty normal.  Ditto for pretty much every other ship, with the possible exception of the gun control ship as a result of the 3D printer issue (Namely, within 20 years, every single house is going to have the capability of printing a working gun within minutes.  There's no real way of stopping this, without either missing out on the next cool economic thing OR doing creepy dystopia things that would kick off a civil war and have me on their side).  You'll get some pushback against political correctness, (and in certain ways, the *racists/sexists* are more realistic.  People are different, cultures are different, heck, genders have serious differences, and these differences will combine with natural luck to produce differences in outcomes between groups.  And trying to solve these inequalities through legal discrimination is evil), but in general, the social fights are ALL Democrats.

The financial/fiscal fight is going to be interesting.

On the low end, those kids are farked.  They don't have schools, they don't have brains, they don't have a culture that favors either, increasingly you need all of those things to get to not-starving.  They're farked.  They're going to run to Momma and vote accordingly (but they already are,and poor/stupid* people don't vote anyways).

On the high end, I don't know.

Right now, if we ended SS, every working American would get a 12% raise.  Unemployment is another 8% payroll tax.  We're spending most of the budget on various forms of welfare.  Yes, military spending is high, but compared to welfare, it's practically nothing.  It's 4-5% of GDP and even Europe's at like 2% without any of our overseas commitments (and the last time we pulled back from those, WW2 happened), so you can't cut *that* much.  That's not to say that there isn't waste, but it's not like you can cut the military and then use that money to actually pay for significant new programs.  There's just not enough of it.

And there's no farking way we're paying all the pensions.  You can't hire a guy for 30 years and then turn back around and pay him his highest pay rate for another 30 years, while paying a 2nd guy to do his job.  That's paying 3 salaries for 1 worker.  You can't afford the welfare AND the pensions.  At least not without letting the rich go completely nuts doing cool things and making a fark-ton of money in the process, and then you taxing them.  So income equality is DEAD.  Because the higher the incomes are, the fewer taxes you bring in, and the more tax money you put out in the form of higher pensions.

Heck, for these people, trickle-down's been working.  You go to school in something useful, graduate, some cool guy has a cool idea, you join his company, get a few (hundredths/tenths of a) percent along with a nice salary, and get a nice down payment on a house 5 years later when they IPO.  Or use it as the seed money to found your company and follow in his footsteps.  And then now you're the founder, and he's the VC funding you.  And then your second company goes big, and now you're a VC, and never have to work again, and you're only 35.  It doesn't happen often, but it happens enough.  Sure, the rich VC's got even richer, but so what?  You're rich, why do you care?

And the rest of the world gets the really cool toys that you and all of your friends come out with.  So Google, Youtube, Facebook, Netflix, cheap PC's, iPhones, etc, etc, etc.  So trickle-down works for them.

So you're looking at "people who want to do cool shiat, and people who want to get rich off of people doing cool shiat, and people who realize that having the cool shiat people in America developing Google or the internet is worthwhile (or at least better than having them all in China or Europe)".

And as the pension crisis hits and entitlements become increasingly more and more strained (CA's $1 Trillion in the hole.  Over like 50 years, but the increased funding efforts are already causing significant financial strain on a city level), and as increasingly large numbers of really bright people who actually vote start losing 60, 70, 80, 100% of their takehome to taxes (Taxes are x/(1-x).  That's a mere 35-50% tax rate), and are increasingly fiscally screwed because of taxes and policies that raise the cost of living, and as the poor stop being hard-working people down on their luck, and (correctly on both sides) become those farking lazy assholes, you could probably get a party together based around "fark the Poor until I'm ONLY losing a third of my income, because I'd really like to be able to live the same life my parents did, but I can't because of taxes and rent control/zoning driving up rents (Oh, and cool people doing cool shiat put us in charge of the Information Age, without requiring us to bomb Europe and Asia into oblivion first), and let's be socially liberal because I don't actually care about that stuff".

Let's call them "Sane Libertarians" (or hell, "Sane Tea Partiers".  VERY similar philosophical starting points.)  "We need to get shiat done, occasionally government is the best way of doing it, but lots of government just produces fraud, corruption, and cronyism, as well as higher unemployment, lower personal incomes (remember, high end), and lower societal wealth over the long run, as well as fewer cool toys.  Throw down a (low) GMI so that no one starves, and then let cool people do cool shiat, and get rich off it, and we'll all be better for it".  Start with Paul Graham's essays and create a political philosophy out of it.   http://www.paulgraham.com/articles.html   -   http://www.paulgraham.com/gh.htmlhttp://www.paulgraham.com/gap.htmlhttp://www.paulgraham.com/wealth.html -  At various times and places in history, whether you could accumulate a fortune by creating wealth has been turned on and off. Northern Italy in 800, off (warlords would steal it). Northern Italy in 1100, on. Central France in 1100, off (still feudal). England in 1800, on. England in 1974, off (98% tax on investment income). United States in 1974, on. We've even had a twin study: West Germany, on; East Germany, off. In every case, the creation of wealth seems to appear and disappear like the noise of a fan as you switch on and off the prospect of keeping it.

*And as we shift over from physical work to knowledge work, those 2 are becoming increasingly correlated.
2014-02-12 08:28:07 AM
2 votes:

chasd00: somedude210: I don't understand how no one knows how they side politically? They're incredibly socially liberal (compared to the rest of the voting public) and sorta fiscally conservative socialist. They don't want to get completely screwed over by the Boomers blowing up the economy while also wanting the feds to be there to help out if/when they need it.

One thing I dont understand is how can the feds help out? The vast majority do not qualify for assistance (foodstamps etc) yet are not wealthy enough to take advantage of tax loopholes.

I don't see the federal social programs doing much to help the majority of folks financially. I suppose they could lower income taxes but I doubt that's going to happen and actually expect the opposite.


That's helping. Cap gains taxed as standard income, top 5% go up to 35% and this country is a lot better off. Increased revenue means increased gov spending, which actually will stimulate the economy. More entry and low/mid level jobs and the millenials go from the worst entry job market in 80 years to something where they have a fair chance.

It's that or we start making guillotines
2014-02-12 07:35:51 AM
2 votes:
The Millennials have two grand examples how not to act politically:

Don't be as greedy and selfish as Baby Boomers.

Don't be as uninvolved as Gen Xers.
2014-02-12 12:59:50 PM
1 votes:
iq_in_binary: Yes, except that you did it to yourselves. We weren't even born when you dumbasses elected Reagan. And don't give me that "I didn't vote for him" nonsense. He didn't take 49 states on the backs of the boomers alone.

The youngest Gen Xers were born in 1965, making them 15 when Reagan beat Carter.
2014-02-12 12:51:31 PM
1 votes:

Nabb1: ckccfa: Nabb1: abb3w: WTF Indeed: The Millennials have two grand examples how not to act politically:

Don't be as greedy and selfish as Baby Boomers.
Don't be as uninvolved as Gen Xers.

So, they're going to set out to combine the worst features of both, and become Libertarians.

The entitlement generation is not going to like the Libertarian Party too much when they find out that cradle-to-grave government benefits are not part of the deal.

Oh shut the fark up with this bullshiat.  We're no more the "entitlement generation" than the farking Boomers.  How dare we want the same fair shake and social support that our parents and grandparents enjoyed.  How farking dare we desire social and infrastructure investment, livable wages, and some opportunities for advancement.  How dare we want the same access to decent healthcare, the ability to own a house, and the ability to raise a family that previous generations enjoyed.
We entered/are entering adulthood at a time of incredible wage stagnation, a shiatty economy that was wrecked by forces beyond our control, and intense corporate greed.  We are trying to attain the same successes our parents did on less money, with fewer jobs, and with more debt than they ever did (because you have to go to a good, expensive college so you can get a job!).  So excuse us for wanting to rebalance the system to fark us just a little less.
Jesus farking christ.


/And if anyone is to blame for making us a bunch of whining entitlement monkeys it's the people who raised us.
//"I learned it by watching you, Dad!"

Yeah, yeah, it's the same self-absorbed whining Generation X engaged in, too, but we just reacted with detached ambivalence. We were the first generation projected to do worse than their parents. We were raised with the expectation that everyone should go to college in order to secure a good job. You think the 90's were some sort of halcyon days for young people? Ever heard the phrase "McJobs"? We coined that - dead end, low-pay ...


Yes, except that you did it to yourselves. We weren't even born when you dumbasses elected Reagan. And don't give me that "I didn't vote for him" nonsense. He didn't take 49 states on the backs of the boomers alone.
2014-02-12 11:49:44 AM
1 votes:

Nabb1: ckccfa: Nabb1: abb3w: WTF Indeed: The Millennials have two grand examples how not to act politically:

Don't be as greedy and selfish as Baby Boomers.
Don't be as uninvolved as Gen Xers.

So, they're going to set out to combine the worst features of both, and become Libertarians.

The entitlement generation is not going to like the Libertarian Party too much when they find out that cradle-to-grave government benefits are not part of the deal.

Oh shut the fark up with this bullshiat.  We're no more the "entitlement generation" than the farking Boomers.  How dare we want the same fair shake and social support that our parents and grandparents enjoyed.  How farking dare we desire social and infrastructure investment, livable wages, and some opportunities for advancement.  How dare we want the same access to decent healthcare, the ability to own a house, and the ability to raise a family that previous generations enjoyed.
We entered/are entering adulthood at a time of incredible wage stagnation, a shiatty economy that was wrecked by forces beyond our control, and intense corporate greed.  We are trying to attain the same successes our parents did on less money, with fewer jobs, and with more debt than they ever did (because you have to go to a good, expensive college so you can get a job!).  So excuse us for wanting to rebalance the system to fark us just a little less.
Jesus farking christ.


/And if anyone is to blame for making us a bunch of whining entitlement monkeys it's the people who raised us.
//"I learned it by watching you, Dad!"

Yeah, yeah, it's the same self-absorbed whining Generation X engaged in, too, but we just reacted with detached ambivalence. We were the first generation projected to do worse than their parents. We were raised with the expectation that everyone should go to college in order to secure a good job. You think the 90's were some sort of halcyon days for young people? Ever heard the phrase "McJobs"? We coined that - dead end, low-pay ...


So then why are you insulting and blaming the Millenials for suffering from the same things you did?  If you want to position your generation as reacting to the problem with detachment, why are you hating on my generation for actually wanting to do something about it and see it change?  Are you jealous of our engagement?  We're not self-absorbed whiners--we're complaining about a real problem that has seriously affected the quality of life for most Americans under 50, and it's not like we're demanding that Gen Xers be sacrificed along the way--the things we want would benefit you too.  And in American politics, complaining about the problem is the first step to trying to fix it.  Who knows if we'll be successful or not, and it will be a while before the doors of political power are open to us, but at least we're recognizing the problem and wanting to fix it.

And really, how can you, in a single paragraph, point out and legitimize the very real and unfair problems facing younger Americans while also calling any complaints about those problems "self-absorbed whining"?  Are we not supposed to want fair pay for our work?  Are we not supposed to desire economic stability and opportunity?  Are we not supposed to want a shot at "the American dream"?  Are these not reasonable expectations for the citizens of a wealth super-power?  What's your real rhetorical game here?


/If anything, we should be banding together to kill off the vampiric Boomers before they drain us all completely dry.
2014-02-12 11:08:31 AM
1 votes:

ckccfa: I'm part of the Millennial generation, and the biggest determiner amongst my less-politically-informed friends is the perception of assholeishness.....


I, too, am part of the Millenial generation ('89!) and I completely agree with all of this. We are a far more activist generation, we care a great deal about each other as well as ourselves. But I think we've also become far more pragmatic in our global views. There is still an anti-involvement isolationist sense but at the same time we kinda have come to terms with the idea that sometimes involvement in other people's affairs on the global stage is necessary, at least in terms of protecting citizens. We are very much a populist generation. My biggest concern is with getting these throngs of people out to vote every election. The way our system is, we have an election every year and people do get tired of that shiat. I will give props to both the Obama campaign and the Warren campaign for being able to have an extremely effective GOTV effort in 2012. Hopefully that will continue through to 2014 and 2016.

I will take issue with you about the Democrats pushing for Net Neutrality. While I do believe support will come mostly from Democrats, the party as a whole has too much money involved with the telecoms to let this slide. It'll take a continuation of the more liberal and libertarian members of the party to push the party to that direction. As it is, the GOP doesn't appear to have any members actively pushing for it so it is the Democrats chance to get the ball rolling. I just wouldn't bank on them doing such things until the Clintonian section is muted for a bit.
2014-02-12 10:56:30 AM
1 votes:

Nabb1: abb3w: WTF Indeed: The Millennials have two grand examples how not to act politically:

Don't be as greedy and selfish as Baby Boomers.
Don't be as uninvolved as Gen Xers.

So, they're going to set out to combine the worst features of both, and become Libertarians.

The entitlement generation is not going to like the Libertarian Party too much when they find out that cradle-to-grave government benefits are not part of the deal.


Oh shut the fark up with this bullshiat.  We're no more the "entitlement generation" than the farking Boomers.  How dare we want the same fair shake and social support that our parents and grandparents enjoyed.  How farking dare we desire social and infrastructure investment, livable wages, and some opportunities for advancement.  How dare we want the same access to decent healthcare, the ability to own a house, and the ability to raise a family that previous generations enjoyed.
We entered/are entering adulthood at a time of incredible wage stagnation, a shiatty economy that was wrecked by forces beyond our control, and intense corporate greed.  We are trying to attain the same successes our parents did on less money, with fewer jobs, and with more debt than they ever did (because you have to go to a good, expensive college so you can get a job!).  So excuse us for wanting to rebalance the system to fark us just a little less.
Jesus farking christ.


/And if anyone is to blame for making us a bunch of whining entitlement monkeys it's the people who raised us.
//"I learned it by watching you, Dad!"
2014-02-12 10:44:53 AM
1 votes:
And from TFA:
"We're not exactly cutting-edge," said Long of the organization's outreach efforts, which consist largely of publishing books. "All my donors and trustees tell me kids don't read these days."

Saying stupid shiat like this will help you to continue to lose my generation.  I taught composition to college students for the last 5 years, and older people would always say to me, "Must be tough, since kids don't read or write these days."  And I would just stare in disbelief.  We read and write all the goddamn time--what the fark do you think smartphones and computers are for?!  We read and write more than any other previous generation, we just don't do it with pigments and tree pulp.  And yes, much of it is casual, but we're also extremely effective at communicating emotional content through text, which is why it's so easy to trip our empathy-alarms with small-time outrage content.  Just look at Buzzfeed--it's half "funny" lists and half "look at this unfair thing happening to this marginalized person."  Facebook and Twitter are awash with links to various articles.  As a generation, we're probably better equipped than anyone else to recognize negative messaging, and we're very sensitive to it.

Missing this boat will kill any cause--we read, we read a lot, and we read for tone; we just do it all on the goddamned internet.  So whether or not we identify as "democrats," the conservatives have already lost the social messaging war with my generation.
2014-02-12 10:21:18 AM
1 votes:

Wendy's Chili: nocturnal001: Wendy's Chili: abb3w: WTF Indeed: The Millennials have two grand examples how not to act politically:

Don't be as greedy and selfish as Baby Boomers.
Don't be as uninvolved as Gen Xers.

So, they're going to set out to combine the worst features of both, and become Libertarians.

That's what it looks like.

PAUL/BITCOIN '16!

The generation that grew up in the shadow of the financial crisis are not going to turn libertarian in mass.

Millenials are just as stupid as any other generation. Many who didn't suffer too much from the recession balk at government action because they don't want to foot the bill (greedy and selfish as Boomers), while many who are struggling as a result of the collapse blame Obama (or "bof sidez") for their woes (politically uninvolved as GenX).


That which is old becomes new again. It's almost like human nature is largely unchanging (though our expressions of it do). If we didn't learn from 2000-2010, we're doomed to repeat it.

The rubber meeting the road happens when we start getting Millenials in Congress in significant numbers - "how do we govern?" is a much better question than "how do we vote?", and gets more to the core of our politics.

// we grew up watching Iran-Contra, S&L, and the Lewinsky trials, obviously we'd be more "government kind of sucks, like all the time; and we should shine bright lights on all of it"
2014-02-12 10:04:50 AM
1 votes:

Wendy's Chili: nocturnal001: Wendy's Chili: abb3w: WTF Indeed: The Millennials have two grand examples how not to act politically:

Don't be as greedy and selfish as Baby Boomers.
Don't be as uninvolved as Gen Xers.

So, they're going to set out to combine the worst features of both, and become Libertarians.

That's what it looks like.

PAUL/BITCOIN '16!

The generation that grew up in the shadow of the financial crisis are not going to turn libertarian in mass.

Millenials are just as stupid as any other generation. Many who didn't suffer too much from the recession balk at government action because they don't want to foot the bill, while many who are struggling as a result of the collapse blame Obama (or "bof sidez") for their woes.


Just as stupid sure, but we/they look at the world differently than other generations. Information sharing, organizational attitudes etc.
2014-02-12 09:24:13 AM
1 votes:

Tiberius Gracchus: Yeah there's a lot of weird hypotheticals going on in this thread. Millenials have been voting since Bush v Gore (I missed that election by 6 mos), that's 12 years of voting data to extrapolate to the rest of the generation.


What everyone's dancing around is that the big money has been focused on selling derp to boomers so long that they haven't really invested in finding out which derp works on millennials.  They're still going "eh, they're just kids, we still have time"  and have completely missed that many of us are getting up there and have families and interests of our own.
2014-02-12 08:31:46 AM
1 votes:

chasd00: I don't see the federal social programs doing much to help the majority of folks financially. I suppose they could lower income taxes but I doubt that's going to happen and actually expect the opposite.


easy, bring back government regulations. The Millenials are going to bring back a post-Depression regulatory boon, especially in the financial sector. That's really the simpliest thing the Feds can do is actually start cracking down on the perpetrators of the recession and preventing it from happening again.
2014-02-12 08:24:13 AM
1 votes:

WTF Indeed: somedude210: I don't understand how no one knows how they side politically? They're incredibly socially liberal (compared to the rest of the voting public) and sorta fiscally conservative socialist. They don't want to get completely screwed over by the Boomers blowing up the economy while also wanting the feds to be there to help out if/when they need it.

It's not how they vote now, it's how they will vote when they are 30.


We're already 30.
2014-02-12 08:20:54 AM
1 votes:

rumpelstiltskin: WTF Indeed: The Millennials have two grand examples how not to act politically:

Don't be as greedy and selfish as Baby Boomers.

Don't be as uninvolved as Gen Xers.

It's not that we don't care; it's we just don't matter. There are 70 million baby boomers and 70 million millennials, and like six of us.


Not to mention the higher barrier to entering politics nowadays. Anything more than a spot on a PTA board takes money to run for, money they don't have because of the economy being trashed as they graduate with thousands of dollars in debt.

I wouldn't be surprised if in about 30 years campaign finance reform finally happens because the Millenials saw how bad it got nowadays.
2014-02-12 08:12:37 AM
1 votes:

WTF Indeed: The Millennials have two grand examples how not to act politically:

Don't be as greedy and selfish as Baby Boomers.

Don't be as uninvolved as Gen Xers.


It's not that we don't care; it's we just don't matter. There are 70 million baby boomers and 70 million millennials, and like six of us.
2014-02-12 08:09:35 AM
1 votes:
Here's hoping the Millenials remember the lessons of their childhood and reject neo-conservative foreign policy.  It's a lot easier to fix your own economy when you're not out indiscriminately destroying others.
2014-02-12 08:02:40 AM
1 votes:

WTF Indeed: somedude210: I don't understand how no one knows how they side politically? They're incredibly socially liberal (compared to the rest of the voting public) and sorta fiscally conservative socialist. They don't want to get completely screwed over by the Boomers blowing up the economy while also wanting the feds to be there to help out if/when they need it.

It's not how they vote now, it's how they will vote when they are 30.


They only have two choices to pick from, so the damage will be inflicted no matter what.
2014-02-12 07:57:21 AM
1 votes:

WTF Indeed: somedude210: I don't understand how no one knows how they side politically? They're incredibly socially liberal (compared to the rest of the voting public) and sorta fiscally conservative socialist. They don't want to get completely screwed over by the Boomers blowing up the economy while also wanting the feds to be there to help out if/when they need it.

It's not how they vote now, it's how they will vote when they are 30.


Again, like the generation that lived through the depression, I think you'll see these kids be more pessimistic with how they'll do financially and will look to the feds to help out more and will be far more open-minded socially.
2014-02-12 07:47:40 AM
1 votes:
I don't understand how no one knows how they side politically? They're incredibly socially liberal (compared to the rest of the voting public) and sorta fiscally conservative socialist. They don't want to get completely screwed over by the Boomers blowing up the economy while also wanting the feds to be there to help out if/when they need it.
 
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