If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(News.com.au)   Idiots who painted "NO WAR" on the Sydney Opera House fined AUS$110,000 and sentenced to nine months periodic detention   (news.com.au) divider line 373
    More: Followup  
•       •       •

6577 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Jan 2004 at 11:50 AM (10 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



373 Comments   (+0 »)
   

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | » | Last | Show all
 
2004-01-30 02:44:01 PM
Tin Foil Hat

Why weigh on a sunny day, so much to do, so why oh why oh weigh??
 
2004-01-30 02:44:30 PM
2004-01-30 02:37:27 PM triple

I don't really see how it's the same thing. What would I do? They'd most likely get their asses kicked, what else?

There's nothing noble about a pro-war statement. They'd look like far worse assholes to me...

I can respect an anti-war one. As long as no lives are lost.

And yes all of this is my NSHO...
 
2004-01-30 02:49:56 PM

Not nearly as idiotic as this:

http://www.progressive.org/mcwatch03/mc102903.html

October 29, 2003
Arsonist Burns Peace Activists' Home

Cindy Hunter and her husband, Sam Nickels, opposed Bush's war against Iraq.

"For the last seven months, we've been putting up a sign on our property," says Hunter, a professor of social work at James Madison University in Harrisonburg, Virginia.

At first, the sign expressed the hope that the war could be avoided.

Then, says Hunter, they changed the sign to list the number of casualties, which they periodically updated, and sometimes to list the number of weapons of mass destruction found, which was always zero.

Hunter says the signs provoked a lot of good dialogue. But that's not all.

"People would come by at night every few weeks or so and break our sign up," she says. "And one time last spring we had eggs tossed against our house," which is a few blocks from campus.

To spare the sign, they decided to bring it up on their porch.

"About two months ago, I attached it to a wood column on the porch, thinking it might be less offensive and more out of the way. I calculated badly on that one," says Nickels, who teaches Spanish in a local middle school.

Nickels says the final sign they had on their porch read:

"8,109 Iraqi civilians.
6,000-plus U.S. wounded.
345 U.S. and British soldiers."

At 4:50 a.m. on October 20, Hunter and Nickels were asleep. So were their three children, ages 7, 8, and 11. And so was Adama Sow, a 30-year-old refugee from Mauritania, who was living upstairs.

"Our smoke alarm went off, and my husband I got out of bed and saw smoke and got the kids out and our roommate out," Hunter says. "It was immediately clear to me that the sign had burned because the only fire you could see was on the right front of the house where the sign used to be."

And that's not even beginning to consider the fact that the war was based on a false pretext. Defacing property is nothing compared to premeditated murder.
 
2004-01-30 02:54:33 PM
pontechango

Yeah, regardless of one's feelings on the Sydney OH vandals, that arson situation is pretty idiotic. Amazing how threatened people can be by A FARKING SIGN.
 
2004-01-30 02:56:02 PM
They'd burn down most of my neighborhood...:\
 
2004-01-30 02:57:55 PM
While I can appreciate the frustration these little punks felt about the kind of terrorist-asshat who drives one of these Osamamobiles™, They shouldn't have gone on such a vent-your-frustrations-with-violence rampage.

I find it much more successful and less dangerous to just go around parking lots, slapping "Me & My Vehicle Support Terrorism (ask me how)" bumperstickers on those POS gas-guzzlers...
 
2004-01-30 02:58:30 PM
Barjockey
"Scratching your balls and grumbling about the war does nothing to stop it when the wheels are turning. "No war" protests are certainly focused on the troops."

Perhaps you can ellaborate on why you think protesters are trying to talk to the soldiers? I guess your assuming that citizens don't realize there is a chain of command in the military...your wrong. We are well aware of the system of command and are obviously not telling the soldiers to stop the war, we are telling the President (and those who hold him accountable) to stop the war...ya know, the guy who decides if a war continues or not. Additionally, you seem to think that protests have no effect in stopping violence. Your wrong.

"What happened when the troops came home from Vietnam? Peaceful, "No war" crowds spit on them. That is completely insane..."

There's nothing to debate there, I agree completely. "Support the Troops" would've been complete appropriate at that time because you can site specific instances (though they were few) where this did occur.

"...and it's that idealogy that exists today."

Prove that it exists today, prove it. You can not and that is why "Support the Troops" is propaganda.

HippiesTasteLikeChicken
Again, I found your requested proof, page 3 of this word doc...go ahead and make whatever mystery point you have.
 
2004-01-30 02:59:43 PM
barjockey

Not sure, nor do I think those in the Democratic Party know.
These clowns in this joke of a Democratic primary are not good leaders. I'm sorry, but if these people are the best that the DNC can come up with, then it shows how pathetic their party has become. The thing I find funny is, its become so easy to bash Bush or call him stupid, but the thing is, he beat them in the last election and will most likely do so again.........so does that say anything about these potential DNC candidates? lol
 
2004-01-30 02:59:44 PM
My Vehicle & I Support Terrorism
(ask me how)
 
2004-01-30 03:02:57 PM
Microbe


HippiesTasteLikeChicken, so this is off topic and really just for my own curiousity.

Have you ever seen combat? Ever seen a friend disintegrate into blood and gore before your very eyes? Ever seen a mother swimming in her own guts while her children cry their eyes out at her remains? Have you ever seen what bullets from a helicopter's gun does to a human in less than a second?

Have you ever considered that, right or wrong, anyone will fight to defend their family and country? Have you ever seen the massive terror, grief, destruction, and overall gory bedlam of war?

Do you REALLY know what it is you support? I often wonder this about pro-war types.


And we can assume from your post that you haven't, so shut up asshat.
 
2004-01-30 03:03:07 PM
I wonder if the folks from both sides of the debate citing their own service record realize that whenever anyone boasts about being a war hero on an internet forum pretty much everyone except the terminally gullible instantly thinks shenanigans.
 
2004-01-30 03:05:33 PM
2004-01-30 02:59:43 PM ranold

Something tells me we're gonna have a bigger voter turnout this time...
 
2004-01-30 03:10:16 PM
pontechango,

Following the Sven Jolly-Microbe-Dalai Lama logic, the only thing wrong with that was the threat to human lives. If the egging/destruction/arson had only been done while the family was away, then I'm sure all these FARKers would be lining up defending the "civil disobedience" of those who found the sign offensive.

Example:
whidbey65: it's not like they couldn't wash the shiat off the farking opera house, ya know?

It's not like they couldn't wash the eggs off their house.
It's not like they couldn't rebuild their trashed sign.
It's not like they couldn't repair the fire damage to their porch.
 
2004-01-30 03:10:41 PM
You're right about that, pontechango. There's idiocy, and then there's downright scary insanity.
 
2004-01-30 03:12:08 PM
whidbey65

I hope there is a higher voter turnout. The more the merrier. I'm not sure if it would change the outcome, but it very well could. As my grand father once told me "I knew men and women who died for you to vote". Needless to say, I always vote.
 
2004-01-30 03:24:26 PM
Microbe
Anyway, the OH isn't a national monument, it's a farking Opera House! Not some war memorial or hero memorial or anything else! Its where the rich elites go to listen to fat ladies sing. (last part of paragraph cut out due to idiocy)

Login: Microbe
Location: Austin, TX


Funny, here I always thought the Opera House was considered a national monument/landmark. But this non-Australian has shown me the light.

Also, your assumption that they would be fined less for a different, non-political message is asinine. Maybe you could cite an example of the Opera House being vandalized previously with a result of a lower fine?

It seemed to me that most people weren't talking about the message, but believed the guys were idiots just for vandalizing the Opera House. Personally, I'll listen to anyone's message, no matter what it may be. But not if they paint it on something like the Opera House.
 
2004-01-30 03:27:24 PM
Just FYI, but if I catch anyone from either side of the political spectrum slapping stickers on my car, I'm going to beat the living crap out of them. Your right to free speech ends at defacing my property.

So, with that agreed, I'll go to jail for assault and battery, and you'll go to the hospital for civil disobedience. I can live with that.
 
2004-01-30 03:27:32 PM
then I'm sure all these FARKers would be lining up defending the "civil disobedience" of those who found the sign offensive

Depends on who's doing it and who supports it...

I'm not going to go as far as saying I'd burn down Donald Rumsfeld's house after he made some fascistic statement, but I'd cheer it on if someone else did it.
 
2004-01-30 03:32:38 PM
Son of Thunder

You failed to make two important distinctions:

1. A private home versus public space.

I don't know if the Opera House is privately owned but it's certainly a public icon. Not to say that I want pro-legalization grafitti on the statue of liberty but at least the intention is clear. Nobody felt that their personal safety was threatened.

2. A painted message versus crude vandalism and arson.

Imagine if, instead of throwing eggs and lighting fires, the vandals posted another sign saying "Saddam is a mass murderer". I think the homeowners would not have seen that so much as an attempt to INTIMIDATE.
 
2004-01-30 03:32:53 PM
Son of Thunder + El_Swino

I guess the discussion is over, you guys are just getting silly, now. Why can't you just state that there is no instance where you feel civil disobidence (breaking the law to send a political message to the law makers) is appropriate.

1. Did the arsonist submit himself to be arrested? No.
2. Was his message directed at the government? No.

Civil disobedience? No.
 
2004-01-30 03:34:52 PM
Can we quit trying to argue the legitimacy or illigitimacy of the Iraq war and focus on the vadalism.
 
2004-01-30 03:38:22 PM
"breaking the law to send a political message to the law makers"

Perhaps they feel that civil disobedience is appropriate when they break the same law in which they intend to protest
 
2004-01-30 03:43:37 PM
Yes, stop the vadalism.

/to the bar, its Friday!
 
2004-01-30 03:44:47 PM
unnaturalcravings

Can we quit looking for the forest and focus on the trees?
 
2004-01-30 03:44:59 PM
You failed to make two important distinctions:

1. A private home versus public space.


Irrelevant if we are following the logic of those who have been defending the painters. I don't recall a distinction being made between public and private space, in fact the argument was made by Sven Jolly that destruction of property (with no qualifiers) shouldn't even be considered a violent act. If you want to make the distinction, you'll have to take it up with them.

2. A painted message versus crude vandalism and arson.

Both take time, effort, and resources to restore. It's only a question of degree, not of kind.
 
2004-01-30 03:45:14 PM
Dalai Lama
I guess the discussion is over, you guys are just getting silly, now. Why can't you just state that there is no instance where you feel civil disobidence (breaking the law to send a political message to the law makers) is appropriate.

Wow. Just wow. You have quite a knack for completely ignoring points others made to make your own argument sound better. You conveniently omit anything that say that might contradict your own argument. Maybe you have a future career in politics, if you're not a politician already.
 
2004-01-30 03:48:15 PM
Sven Jolly ~ If you dont agree with my political views, you're not smart. -paraphrase

That's the best.argument.3v4r!!!!11!

Nah, it's one of the worst. Perhaps in some time you'll mature and realize that just because people don't see eye to eye with you, they're not dumb.

The only rational point made is that perhaps the monetary fine is excessive. Perhaps. Unless we see a bill for repainting we wont know. However, the fine could include fines for breaking the law. Remember some crimes = jail sentences as well as monetary damages exceeding the cost of actual damages.
 
2004-01-30 03:50:45 PM
Blah, blah, blah! Where the hell are the b00bies?!? Its Friday, dammit! We need some teets to start the weekend off right. Cookie to the first farker with some decent links!

Plus, flamewar make baby jeebus cry.
 
2004-01-30 03:51:15 PM
Dalai Lama

I guess the discussion is over, you guys are just getting silly, now.

That is an unfair characterization, and I'm curious how you arrived at it, in my case at least. What in my last post to you was "silly"? Or is this just a bail out on your part?

Why can't you just state that there is no instance where you feel civil disobidence (breaking the law to send a political message to the law makers) is appropriate.

If I stated that, I'd be lying. Please don't put words in my mouth. I've been trying to make my support of civil disobedience quite clear, I'm sorry if I was unable to communicate that in a fashion which you would find understandable. What I don't support is criminality in the name of civil disobedience. I spent three posts trying to get this one point across to you. I see I've been wasting my time. Up until your recent rude comments I've had a fair bit of respect for both you and your viewpoint. That has now changed. Your viewpoint is still valid, but you, sir, are currently behaving like an ass.
 
2004-01-30 04:01:18 PM
Maybe they were protesting Wagner?
 
2004-01-30 04:01:27 PM
Son of Thunder

Irrelevant if we are following the logic of those who have been defending the painters.


I haven't been. So, maybe that's true.


the argument was made by Sven Jolly that destruction of property (with no qualifiers) shouldn't even be considered a violent act. If you want to make the distinction, you'll have to take it up with them.

I think this distinction should help. It really depends on the property. There is certainly a continuum between person and property. To me, violence clearly implies physical or psychological damage caused in a fit of rage. Causing damage to impersonalized property without the possibilty (implied or real) of harm to anyone is NOT violence. If somebody dumped a bucket of paint on my television, I would certainly hesitate to call it an act of violence.


Both take time, effort, and resources to restore. It's only a question of degree, not of kind.

Do you consider rust to be an act of violence? How about an e-mail virus, is that an act of violence? If the police search your home and scatter your stuff everywhere, is that an act of violence?
 
2004-01-30 04:04:00 PM
I'll go one further - the Dalai Lama has no interest in gaining Tibet back from the Chinese whatsover. He is too busy milking the rich fat cow of sympathetic celebrities who also would rather feel good than to buck up and fight for his homeland.

/flame on
 
2004-01-30 04:05:44 PM
Activism 101. Do not try to spread your message in ways that are going to royally piss off the people your trying to reach. For example, defacing a beloved national landmark.


Unfortunately some segments of the anti-war movement in Oz has yet to learn that. The Vandalism of the Opera House came straight after a protest by school kids - the dumbasses from "Books not Bombs" In news interviews is was apparent many of them didn't even know why they were there ( apart from a days off school ) and the march ended in the trashing of a street-side cafe with tables and chairs ripped up and thrown at police as well as vandalism to a nearby cathedral.

Way to make a point guys. The pro-war people must have been cheeringing them on with glee.
 
2004-01-30 04:17:52 PM
To me, violence clearly implies physical or psychological damage caused in a fit of rage.

Works for me, except for the rage. I see cold, unemotional violence as being just as violent, but I'm with you on the harm principle.

Causing damage to impersonalized property without the possibilty (implied or real) of harm to anyone is NOT violence.

If it is really impersonalized (not connected to any person or persons), then nobody would care. But the Sydney Opera House is very personalized, in terms of the people who operate it, the people who attend performances, and the people who have taken it to their hearts as a symbol of Sydney. The damage is both physical, since physical methods will be required to restore the Opera House to its original state, and psychological, for those who have a connection to the building and what it represents.

Do you consider rust to be an act of violence?

If you intentionally spayed a rust-indicuing substance on my car, yes. I would consider it an act of violence against my property and myself.

How about an e-mail virus, is that an act of violence?

Yes, if it is (like the rust example) done intentionally and results in harm.

If the police search your home and scatter your stuff everywhere, is that an act of violence?

Yes. Again, there is intention and harm (even if nothing is broken, cleaning up the place will take time/effort/resources).
 
2004-01-30 04:22:40 PM
pontechango,

I have to go, but thank you for providing a reasonable and intelligent objection to my points.

Personally, I consider the example that you gave of the arson/attempted murder to be (of course) far worse than simple defacement of property.

See you later.
 
2004-01-30 04:26:55 PM
Son of Thunder

The damage is both physical, since physical methods will be required to restore the Opera House to its original state, and psychological, for those who have a connection to the building and what it represents.


I'm with you on they physical damage but the psychological damage?? I will conced your point only if admit that consumerist advertising is just as damaging. More so, since it is omnipresent. I was at a friends house during the Iraq War when they turned on FoxNews. Did that not also cause psychological damage to me? And FoxNews was actively PROMOTING state-sanctioned violence!!


If you intentionally spayed a rust-indicuing substance on my car, yes. I would consider it an act of violence against my property and myself.

You mean like water? Heheh.
 
2004-01-30 04:27:52 PM
Son of Thunder

Cheers. Enjoy the weekend.
 
2004-01-30 04:40:59 PM
I wish I could see the tears that stream down their face when they are getting the crap pounded out of them for their fruit cup in jail.


They got 100% of what they deserved
 
2004-01-30 05:00:51 PM
microbe
In which case I'm with Churchill, "walk tall and carry a big stick".

you not only farked up the quote but attributed it to the wrong guy.

http://www.c-span.org/classroom/pov/povlp_kaufman2.asp
 
2004-01-30 05:23:37 PM
2004-01-30 02:26:37 PM barjockey

What happened when the troops came home from Vietnam? Peaceful, "No war" crowds spit on them.

----------------
URBAN LEGEND.
 
2004-01-30 05:24:14 PM
Protest all you you want you filthy fu(king hippies, just don't cry when it's payback time.

I had the unfortunate experience of having one of these little bunnyhumpers put a paper based "My vehicle and I support terrorism" sticker on my truck not too long ago. It was near a mall with restaraunts and specialty stores in the surrounding area. Later at home, after 20 mins. of scraping with warm water and a razor, I finally removed the last bit of crap from my bumper.

About 3 weeks later, I was at an eatery I frequent on the weekend in the same area as my truck was stickered, and I see these 2 guys walking through the parking lot occasionally stooping out of sight. I had my suspicions of what was going on so I watched for a couple of minutes and confirmed that they were stickering SUVs. I casually walked to my truck and retrieved my bat, ( I play baseball recreationally) and headed about 50 yards in front the direction the pricks were moving.

I positioned myself on the side and behind the rear wheel of a nice Escalade and and stooped occasionally to check the progress of the "protesters". When dumbass finally reached the Escalade, I rolled around the corner an smacked the guy on the side of the knee, he screamed, went to the ground rolling on his back and grabbed his knee. At that point, I took another whack at the knee, this time on the top and cought a couple of knuckles in the process. When his buddy saw me standing there with the bat, the "rainbow warrior" promptly headed in the other direction.

Did the guy I whacked put the sticker on my car? don't know, don't care.

Was he defacing somebody else property? yeps.

Will he be back to "protest" anytime soon? no, at least not til he can walk again.

Did the punnishment fit the crime? no. But sometimes, life isn't fair that way.

If I had been caught, I would have faced the music with no whining.

Hey hippies, I'm tired of your message and your "protesting" by defacing things or laying in the street as I try to get to work, If I see you, and can get a clean swing at you, I will.
 
2004-01-30 05:30:20 PM
2004-01-30 05:24:14 PM fink

You sound like a real knuckledragger, too BTW...
 
2004-01-30 05:36:38 PM
If this was America Ashcroft would have made sure they had 20 years in prison, and then he would have gone on to not prosecute someone who sprayed "no Democrats" on 5,000 buildings.

Fink- you are guilty of assault and should be in jail. I hope you wind up in jail, getting raped by a bunch of HIV-positive fellow prisoners.

All mean right-wingers deserve to get castrated with chainsaws.
 
2004-01-30 05:40:26 PM
Damn, fink, spread some of that hate my way!! I'd be happy to dredge up all your repressed memories of daddy kicking your raped little ass.
 
2004-01-30 05:42:24 PM
Fink,

Whoa. You're up here *gestures with hand above head*, and where you really want to be is down here *gestures with hand around chest level*

Hippies can be annoying yes, but seriously... hitting people with bats is crazy. I repeat your behavior is crazy. You should be arrested. If you are so willing to face the music, would you be so kind to post your name and location so that I can direct the authorities to your place of work or residence? Can't have people like you running hitting people with bats and then bragging about it on the internet can we?
 
2004-01-30 05:46:18 PM
KazamaSmokers

I could put you in touch with my brother, who as an 18-year old in the Army was spat upon and called a baby-killer.
 
2004-01-30 05:47:08 PM
Sure thing pontechango, all you have to do is put one of your silly anti-war stickers on my property and I'll be glad to oblige.
 
2004-01-30 05:47:35 PM
2004-01-30 05:24:14 PM fink

Complete. Asshole.
 
2004-01-30 05:58:50 PM
sugarlarry, I guess I didn't make it clear that if you are going to "protest", don't get caught, and if you do get caught, don't cry when the sentence is handed down.

So, why would I tell you where I am, buffoon? Sure, I could have called the police and reported "stickering" and they would have shown up 4 hours later and the guys would have been long gone. It just seemed fitting that they were "protesting" and I was "protesting" and we met somewhere in the middle.
 
2004-01-30 06:00:36 PM
Well then it'll seem fitting when you get your Big Beatdown from the Cosmos, fink, you....fink...;)

I swear none of us had to hear your little redneck story, d00d...
 
Displayed 50 of 373 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | » | Last | Show all



This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report