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(ESPN)   Lebron James is not the best at being modest   (espn.go.com) divider line 107
    More: Dumbass, LeBron James, NBA TV, Oscar Robertson, Magic Johnson  
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1811 clicks; posted to Sports » on 11 Feb 2014 at 9:23 PM (36 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-02-11 07:52:50 PM  
How is he supposed to be a top-four player when he's not even the best player on his own team?  Mario Chalmers once dunked a basketball after taking off from the other free-throw line.
 
2014-02-11 08:36:54 PM  

Mike_LowELL: How is he supposed to be a top-four player when he's not even the best player on his own team?  Mario Chalmers once dunked a basketball after taking off from the other free-throw line.




you made me do this.

People yelling at Mario Chalmers
 
2014-02-11 08:39:30 PM  

SilentStrider: you made me do this.


10/10
 
2014-02-11 08:53:21 PM  
I was going to come in here to say "LeBron's not wrong." But now I'm reminded that he actually is because Mario Chalmers occupies every spot on the list of the 50 best basketball players of all time. And that is *never* changing.
 
2014-02-11 09:32:05 PM  
Lebron is, already, at worst, in the top 10 players not named Mario Chalmers.
 
2014-02-11 09:32:27 PM  
Mario is clearly GOAT. Clearly.
 
2014-02-11 09:41:07 PM  
To be fair to LeBron (and it's been a while since I've been inclined to be fair to him), I've got to ask: what is he supposed to say when the interviewer asks him that question?  It's a lose-lose question.
 
2014-02-11 09:41:25 PM  
Who?
 
2014-02-11 09:51:36 PM  
I miss the Chalmers joke completely but Lebron isnt even in the top 10 yet and I doubt he will ever get there.
 
2014-02-11 09:57:42 PM  

steamingpile: I miss the Chalmers joke completely but Lebron isnt even in the top 10 yet and I doubt he will ever get there.


What are you talking about? There is no joke. Mario Chalmers is a modern deity w/ an unstoppable up jumper. I just stand in awe of his greatness thrice weekly.
 
2014-02-11 09:58:42 PM  

Straight Outta Wells Branch: steamingpile: I miss the Chalmers joke completely but Lebron isnt even in the top 10 yet and I doubt he will ever get there.

What are you talking about? There is no joke. Mario Chalmers is a modern deity w/ an unstoppable up jumper. I just stand in awe of his greatness thrice weekly.


Pull up jumper, I meant to say. Actually all his jumpers.
 
2014-02-11 10:05:15 PM  

Straight Outta Wells Branch: steamingpile: I miss the Chalmers joke completely but Lebron isnt even in the top 10 yet and I doubt he will ever get there.

What are you talking about? There is no joke. Mario Chalmers is a modern deity w/ an unstoppable up jumper. I just stand in awe of his greatness thrice weekly.


75% of the Earth is covered by water. The rest is covered by Mario Chalmers.
 
2014-02-11 10:06:05 PM  

steamingpile: I miss the Chalmers joke completely but Lebron isnt even in the top 10 yet and I doubt he will ever get there.


Who are ten players better than him?  Besides Chalmers.
 
2014-02-11 10:06:36 PM  

steamingpile: I miss the Chalmers joke completely but Lebron isnt even in the top 10 yet and I doubt he will ever get there.


Thanks I thought I was the only one but

He is top ten at worst. Creeping on top 5
 
2014-02-11 10:07:53 PM  

RoyHobbs22: steamingpile: I miss the Chalmers joke completely but Lebron isnt even in the top 10 yet and I doubt he will ever get there.

Who are ten players better than him?  Besides Chalmers.


Off the top of my head? (From best to not quite as best) - 
Mario Chalmers,
Mario Chalmers,
Mario Chalmers,
Mario Chalmers,
Mario Chalmers,
Mario Chalmers,
Mario Chalmers,
Mario Chalmers,
Mario Chalmers,

and

Mario Chalmers.
 
2014-02-11 10:18:50 PM  

steamingpile: I miss the Chalmers joke completely but Lebron isnt even in the top 10 yet and I doubt he will ever get there.


I think you're going to find yourself in the minority on that one.
 
2014-02-11 10:20:48 PM  
Clearly one of the all time greats... as long as he has the ball in his hands.  Greatest front-runner of all time, or something like that.
 
2014-02-11 10:23:34 PM  
He already is among the greatest. Needs five more rings and a few more MVPs to be the best ever.
 
2014-02-11 10:31:01 PM  
A basketball player found a lamp. He rubbed it, and out came the genie with an offer of three wishes.

"I would like to be a respected athlete," he said. With a puff of smoke, he found himself on the New York Knicks bench.

The next day, he said to the genie, "I would like to be an even more respected athlete." Just like that, he was the starting center for the Miami Heat.

The next day, he said, "I would like to be an even more highly respected athlete."

The genie waved his hands, and presto, the young man was on the training roster for the Edmonton Eskimos of the Canadian Football League.
 
2014-02-11 10:32:09 PM  
Some guys that were better than Lebron James:
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Michael Jordan
Wilt Chamberlain
Karl Malone
Oscar Robertson
Kobe Bryant
Elgin Baylor
Elvin Hayes
Julius Erving
Bill Russell
Shaquille O'Neal
Larry Bird
Hakeem Olajuwon
Magic Johnson
Pete Maravich
Patrick Ewing
Jerry West
George Gervin
Mario Chalmers
 
2014-02-11 10:35:21 PM  
Robert Horry has seven NBA championship rings:
static.sportskeeda.com
 
2014-02-11 10:36:50 PM  
Magic, Michael, Russell, Kareem (hey, YOU try dragging Walton and Lanier up and down the court for 48 minutes).

I can still think of guys more accomplished than Lebron, who got more done with less. Bird, Kobe, Shaq, Duncan, Chamberlain... and then I guess Lebron.

So he's top 10. And by top 10, that means he's 10th. He just makes it. Maybe the rest of his career he'll climb higher. But not right now.
 
2014-02-11 10:47:53 PM  

Ishkur: Magic, Michael, Russell, Kareem (hey, YOU try dragging Walton and Lanier up and down the court for 48 minutes).

I can still think of guys more accomplished than Lebron, who got more done with less. Bird, Kobe, Shaq, Duncan, Chamberlain... and then I guess Lebron.

So he's top 10. And by top 10, that means he's 10th. He just makes it. Maybe the rest of his career he'll climb higher. But not right now.


I think Erving is in the middle there so someone has to come off the back end.
 
2014-02-11 10:48:26 PM  

Ishkur: Magic, Michael, Russell, Kareem (hey, YOU try dragging Walton and Lanier up and down the court for 48 minutes).

I can still think of guys more accomplished than Lebron, who got more done with less. Bird, Kobe, Shaq, Duncan, Chamberlain... and then I guess Lebron.

So he's top 10. And by top 10, that means he's 10th. He just makes it. Maybe the rest of his career he'll climb higher. But not right now.


Did any of them more or less single handedly drag the Cavaliers to the playoffs?
 
2014-02-11 10:51:39 PM  

AntonChigger: Did any of them more or less single handedly drag the Cavaliers to the playoffs?


Did any of them punk out when they couldn't win with the Cavs, and throw a big public tantrum about how it's too hard and they can't win unless they're surrounded by other good players, and leave for a party-friendly city?
 
2014-02-11 10:55:00 PM  

AntonChigger: Ishkur: Magic, Michael, Russell, Kareem (hey, YOU try dragging Walton and Lanier up and down the court for 48 minutes).

I can still think of guys more accomplished than Lebron, who got more done with less. Bird, Kobe, Shaq, Duncan, Chamberlain... and then I guess Lebron.

So he's top 10. And by top 10, that means he's 10th. He just makes it. Maybe the rest of his career he'll climb higher. But not right now.

Did any of them more or less single handedly drag the Cavaliers to the playoffs?


Was going to say the same thing.  That Cavs team was dreck.

When all is said and done I think it goes Jordan, Lebron, Kobe as all time 1-3. That doesn't include centers. They're hard to compare.
 
2014-02-11 10:56:18 PM  

Ishkur: AntonChigger: Did any of them more or less single handedly drag the Cavaliers to the playoffs?

Did any of them punk out when they couldn't win with the Cavs, and throw a big public tantrum about how it's too hard and they can't win unless they're surrounded by other good players, and leave for a party-friendly city?


I dunno, did any of them play for the Cavs?  Seriously though, what public tantrum are you talking about?  The whole hype surrounding the big trade?  If I recall the media circus wasn't really his fault, and honestly who wouldn't take the chance to join a team with a better chance of winning?
 
2014-02-11 11:02:22 PM  

Ishkur: AntonChigger: Did any of them more or less single handedly drag the Cavaliers to the playoffs?

Did any of them punk out when they couldn't win with the Cavs, and throw a big public tantrum about how it's too hard and they can't win unless they're surrounded by other good players, and leave for a party-friendly city?


Magic had Kareem and Worthy
Michael had Scottie
Russell had Cousy, Havlicek, Sam Jones, Heinsohn, etc.
Bird had McHale and Parrish

Cleveland-era LeBron had...Larry Hughes? Antawn Jamison? Boobie Gibson? Dude dragged that '07 team to the Finals by himself. Quite literally in the case of that one game against the Pistons.
 
2014-02-11 11:06:43 PM  

ChildOfBhaal: To be fair to LeBron (and it's been a while since I've been inclined to be fair to him), I've got to ask: what is he supposed to say when the interviewer asks him that question?  It's a lose-lose question.


"You know, since I'm still active in the league, I'm not concerned about my "legacy" right now since I'm still building it- and once I'm done, I hope to be considered one of the best of all time, and would consider it an honor to have my name in the same sentence as the players I just named."

or

"I'm much more concerned about playing good ball and winning another championship than where I stack up against the greatest players. We can start talking about that once I'm done playing."

or

"Those guys' careers are over, mine isn't."

or

"It's your job to have an opinion about that. My job is to play the game as best I can."
 
2014-02-11 11:07:57 PM  

AntonChigger: Seriously though, what public tantrum are you talking about? The whole hype surrounding the big trade? If I recall the media circus wasn't really his fault


Sure it was. All he has to do is say "fark off, this "The Decision" is the gayest thing you've come up with since the time I was walking in the forest and stumbled upon 12 guys having sex with 11 guys."

There. Done. Diffused.
 
2014-02-11 11:09:58 PM  

Ishkur: AntonChigger: Did any of them more or less single handedly drag the Cavaliers to the playoffs?

Did any of them punk out when they couldn't win with the Cavs, and throw a big public tantrum about how it's too hard and they can't win unless they're surrounded by other good players, and leave for a party-friendly city?


LeBron doesn't make the top 10 biggest NBA arseholes list.
 
2014-02-11 11:10:44 PM  

grinding_journalist: ChildOfBhaal: To be fair to LeBron (and it's been a while since I've been inclined to be fair to him), I've got to ask: what is he supposed to say when the interviewer asks him that question?  It's a lose-lose question.

"You know, since I'm still active in the league, I'm not concerned about my "legacy" right now since I'm still building it- and once I'm done, I hope to be considered one of the best of all time, and would consider it an honor to have my name in the same sentence as the players I just named."

or

"I'm much more concerned about playing good ball and winning another championship than where I stack up against the greatest players. We can start talking about that once I'm done playing."

or

"Those guys' careers are over, mine isn't."

or

"It's your job to have an opinion about that. My job is to play the game as best I can."


And when he says things like that, people accuse him of false humility or dodging the question. Or they compare him to Kobe (yet again) and talk about how LeBron just doesn't have that edge that Kobe has which is what makes Kobe a killer/finisher unlike LeBron (despite all evidence to the contrary).
 
2014-02-11 11:15:25 PM  

TheWhoppah: Some guys that were better than Lebron James:
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Michael Jordan
Wilt Chamberlain
Karl Malone
Oscar Robertson
Kobe Bryant
Elgin Baylor
Elvin Hayes
Julius Erving
Bill Russell
Shaquille O'Neal
Larry Bird
Hakeem Olajuwon
Magic Johnson
Pete Maravich
Patrick Ewing
Jerry West
George Gervin
Mario Chalmers


Lol@ Gervin, Ewing, Maravich, Dr. J, and Hayes even being listed.
 
2014-02-11 11:17:09 PM  

FreakinB: Ishkur: AntonChigger: Did any of them more or less single handedly drag the Cavaliers to the playoffs?

Did any of them punk out when they couldn't win with the Cavs, and throw a big public tantrum about how it's too hard and they can't win unless they're surrounded by other good players, and leave for a party-friendly city?

Magic had Kareem and Worthy
Michael had Scottie
Russell had Cousy, Havlicek, Sam Jones, Heinsohn, etc.
Bird had McHale and Parrish

Cleveland-era LeBron had...Larry Hughes? Antawn Jamison? Boobie Gibson? Dude dragged that '07 team to the Finals by himself. Quite literally in the case of that one game against the Pistons.


Holy shiat. Looking further into this and in the '09 season (where the Cavs won 66 games but lost the ECF to the Magic) LeBron averaged a 35-9-7 for the playoffs, and 38-8-8 in the ECF. That's not human.
 
2014-02-11 11:21:43 PM  

Ishkur: AntonChigger: Seriously though, what public tantrum are you talking about? The whole hype surrounding the big trade? If I recall the media circus wasn't really his fault

Sure it was. All he has to do is say "fark off, this "The Decision" is the gayest thing you've come up with since the time I was walking in the forest and stumbled upon 12 guys having sex with 11 guys."

There. Done. Diffused.


You're just mad because you were the odd man out.
 
2014-02-11 11:22:48 PM  

FreakinB: and 38-8-8 in the ECF. That's not human.


And what did he get for that? Called a choker.
 
2014-02-11 11:23:47 PM  

ChildOfBhaal: To be fair to LeBron (and it's been a while since I've been inclined to be fair to him), I've got to ask: what is he supposed to say when the interviewer asks him that question?  It's a lose-lose question.


This.

He's also just repeating what has been said, and is on the mind's of so many others around the league.
 
2014-02-11 11:24:10 PM  
He is great, but he needs to work on his balance more. I've never seen such a talented, 270 pound man-beast fall to the floor as often as he does. It might be an equilibrium thing, or maybe sub-par footwork.
 
2014-02-11 11:28:03 PM  

FreakinB: Magic had Kareem and Worthy
Michael had Scottie
Russell had Cousy, Havlicek, Sam Jones, Heinsohn, etc.
Bird had McHale and Parrish



Okay, now here's the important part: NONE of those guys were those guys without the GOAT. That's what makes him the GOAT. He makes everyone around him better. Pippen, Harper, Grant, Kerr, etc.. were mediocre without Michael, and it was actually proven in a real-time experiment for a couple years.

That's what separates a GOAT from just a really great player: His ability to elevate the game of his teammates. Through his leadership, through his game management, and through practice -- yes, that's important, Iverson: You make your teammates better through practice. Jurri Kurri is not scoring 600+ goals without Wayne Gretzky passing to him (hell, Gretzky made a lunchbucket called BJ MacDonald a 50 goal scorer one year). Wes Welker is just an average receiver... who happened to be blessed with the two best modern quarterbacks throwing to him.

The GOATs don't complain about who they're playing with because they have the power to make whoever they're playing with better. That's what separates Lebron from a basketball god; he'll always be known as the guy who couldn't elevate a team from poverty, the way Joe Sakic, Steve Yzerman and Mario Lemieux did, the way Peyton Manning and Troy Aikman did, and the way Jordan, Kareem and Russell did.
 
2014-02-11 11:28:25 PM  

TheLopper: He is great, but he needs to work on his balance more. I've never seen such a talented, 270 pound man-beast fall to the floor as often as he does. It might be an equilibrium thing, or maybe sub-par footwork.


or it could be flopping...did I miss the joke?
 
2014-02-11 11:29:50 PM  

DaintySavage: You're just mad because you were the odd man out.


Lebron doesn't even have the common courtesy to give a guy a reach-around.
 
2014-02-11 11:31:07 PM  

Ishkur: FreakinB: Magic had Kareem and Worthy
Michael had Scottie
Russell had Cousy, Havlicek, Sam Jones, Heinsohn, etc.
Bird had McHale and Parrish


Okay, now here's the important part: NONE of those guys were those guys without the GOAT. That's what makes him the GOAT. He makes everyone around him better. Pippen, Harper, Grant, Kerr, etc.. were mediocre without Michael, and it was actually proven in a real-time experiment for a couple years.

That's what separates a GOAT from just a really great player: His ability to elevate the game of his teammates. Through his leadership, through his game management, and through practice -- yes, that's important, Iverson: You make your teammates better through practice. Jurri Kurri is not scoring 600+ goals without Wayne Gretzky passing to him (hell, Gretzky made a lunchbucket called BJ MacDonald a 50 goal scorer one year). Wes Welker is just an average receiver... who happened to be blessed with the two best modern quarterbacks throwing to him.

The GOATs don't complain about who they're playing with because they have the power to make whoever they're playing with better. That's what separates Lebron from a basketball god; he'll always be known as the guy who couldn't elevate a team from poverty, the way Joe Sakic, Steve Yzerman and Mario Lemieux did, the way Peyton Manning and Troy Aikman did, and the way Jordan, Kareem and Russell did.


You can say all you want about elevating those around you, but it doesn't change the fact that Kevin McHale could be elevated much higher than Mo Williams.
 
2014-02-11 11:35:55 PM  

Ishkur: Pippen, Harper, Grant, Kerr, etc.. were mediocre without Michael, and it was actually proven in a real-time experiment for a couple years.


Mediocre = 55-27, 3 seed in the East (back when the East was good). 47-35 the next year, still good enough for the 5 seed.

Yeah, we can pretty much ignore your comments on this situation.
 
2014-02-11 11:38:12 PM  

FreakinB: You can say all you want about elevating those around you, but it doesn't change the fact that Kevin McHale could be elevated much higher than Mo Williams.


Kevin McHale was nothing without Danny Ainge getting him the ball inside.
 
2014-02-11 11:39:13 PM  

Ishkur: FreakinB: You can say all you want about elevating those around you, but it doesn't change the fact that Kevin McHale could be elevated much higher than Mo Williams.

Kevin McHale was nothing without Danny Ainge getting him the ball inside.


Sure he was.
 
2014-02-11 11:40:34 PM  

IAmRight: Mediocre = 55-27, 3 seed in the East (back when the East was good). 47-35 the next year, still good enough for the 5 seed.


Jordan returns, 72-10.

So we can say Jordan is worth a solid ~20 wins or somewhere thereabouts?

I don't know any team that can't benefit from 20 extra wins every year, just from one guy alone.
 
2014-02-11 11:45:52 PM  

FreakinB: Ishkur: AntonChigger: Did any of them more or less single handedly drag the Cavaliers to the playoffs?

Did any of them punk out when they couldn't win with the Cavs, and throw a big public tantrum about how it's too hard and they can't win unless they're surrounded by other good players, and leave for a party-friendly city?

Magic had Kareem and Worthy
Michael had Scottie
Russell had Cousy, Havlicek, Sam Jones, Heinsohn, etc.
Bird had McHale and Parrish

Cleveland-era LeBron had...Larry Hughes? Antawn Jamison? Boobie Gibson? Dude dragged that '07 team to the Finals by himself. Quite literally in the case of that one game against the Pistons.


Mo Williams.  The best guy he played with in Cleveland, his entire time there, was Mo Williams.

And he made Mo Williams an all-star.
 
2014-02-11 11:45:58 PM  

Ishkur: FreakinB: Magic had Kareem and Worthy
Michael had Scottie
Russell had Cousy, Havlicek, Sam Jones, Heinsohn, etc.
Bird had McHale and Parrish


Okay, now here's the important part: NONE of those guys were those guys without the GOAT. That's what makes him the GOAT. He makes everyone around him better. Pippen, Harper, Grant, Kerr, etc.. were mediocre without Michael, and it was actually proven in a real-time experiment for a couple years.

That's what separates a GOAT from just a really great player: His ability to elevate the game of his teammates. Through his leadership, through his game management, and through practice -- yes, that's important, Iverson: You make your teammates better through practice. Jurri Kurri is not scoring 600+ goals without Wayne Gretzky passing to him (hell, Gretzky made a lunchbucket called BJ MacDonald a 50 goal scorer one year). Wes Welker is just an average receiver... who happened to be blessed with the two best modern quarterbacks throwing to him.

The GOATs don't complain about who they're playing with because they have the power to make whoever they're playing with better. That's what separates Lebron from a basketball god; he'll always be known as the guy who couldn't elevate a team from poverty, the way Joe Sakic, Steve Yzerman and Mario Lemieux did, the way Peyton Manning and Troy Aikman did, and the way Jordan, Kareem and Russell did.


You mean that real-time experiment where they were actually still well above average? And got jobbed out of advancing to the ECF in their first season without him? And then everybody left in the off-season but they still managed a 5th seed? Is that the real-time experiment you're talking about? Because that's definitely what happened while Jordan was gone. I wouldn't denigrate what they accomplished sans-Jordan as "mediocre".

As to the rest of your post, I fail to see how that is an argument against LeBron. He drug the Cavaliers kicking and screaming into the playoffs by sheer force of personality multiple times. He single-handedly made an All-Star out of Mo Williams for God's sake. If that isn't "makes the guys around him better", then I don't know what qualifies. Moreover, when I think about the other guys you mention (save the hockey players, I don't watch much hockey), I think "Damn, they've got/had a ton of talent around them". Peyton had 2 WRs and 2 DEs worth HoF consideration plus Edge. Aikman had Smith and Irvin. Jordan was addressed above. Kareem played with several HoF players in LA. Russell's teams were absolutely stacked even without him. Obviously they were capable of putting their teams over the top, but what you're saying is tantamount to pretending they were playing with scrubs whom they turned into All-Stars and HoFers.
 
2014-02-11 11:46:14 PM  

Ishkur: So we can say Jordan is worth a solid ~20 wins or somewhere thereabouts?

I don't know any team that can't benefit from 20 extra wins every year, just from one guy alone.


If you want to pretend that upgrading PF from Corie Blount to Dennis f*cking Rodman isn't of any value.
 
2014-02-11 11:47:09 PM  
Thing is, when Mario went down with an injury this season, the Heat were terrible (1-3). Perhaps there's more to his legend than meets the eye.
 
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