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(Patheos)   Because Lemon v. Kurtzman wasn't clear enough for him, Alabama legislator proposes bill that would require 15 minutes of prayer reading every school day. But it's okay, 'cuz it's a prayer from the House and Senate records, right?   (patheos.com) divider line 125
    More: Dumbass, Alabama, Senate, Alabama legislator, prayers  
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1719 clicks; posted to Politics » on 11 Feb 2014 at 6:20 PM (50 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-02-11 07:20:29 PM  

jso2897: Well, if you were the creator of the galaxies and supernovas and black holes and event horizons - wouldn't you insist that some hairless apes on one of an infinite number of balls of dirt you created stop whatever they are doing and lavish praise upon you daily?


I hope you don't really think that it works that way. Otherwise, you're an even bigger moron than I've previously given you credit for.
 
2014-02-11 07:21:01 PM  

RandomExcess: It is a learning experience for the kids, and a daily 15 min civics lesson is not too much to ask of future citizens.


Hey, if you want to dabble with religion in my schools that I pay for with my tax payer money, why not dabble in LSD, peyote, shrooms or the like?  As long as we're talking about mass delusions....
 
2014-02-11 07:21:25 PM  

Herb Utsmelz: Cyberluddite: You know who else doesn't think Lemon v. Kurtzman applies any more?

Well, Scalia and Thomas, for sure, since at least the early 1990s.  Probably Roberts and Alito as well, and quite possibly Kennedy.

Fire their asses too.


Don't worry - I will.
i18.photobucket.com
 
2014-02-11 07:22:44 PM  
I grew up in a small Texas town and every morning in high school they read prayers over the PA system. Several teachers would lead the classes in saying grace before lunch.

There were parents who truly believed that the law was that children could not pray at school, even on their own. That's why this issue was so important to them - they literally thought their children couldn't pray, ever.
 
2014-02-11 07:23:45 PM  

Pokey.Clyde: jso2897: Well, if you were the creator of the galaxies and supernovas and black holes and event horizons - wouldn't you insist that some hairless apes on one of an infinite number of balls of dirt you created stop whatever they are doing and lavish praise upon you daily?

I hope you don't really think that it works that way. Otherwise, you're an even bigger moron than I've previously given you credit for.


A crushing logical argument - one of the towering intellects of Fark.com has......called me a name.
How I will ever live down the shame of this epic pwnage is anybody's best guess.
Yes - I'm feeling quite smug and superior - you make it easy, thanks.
 
2014-02-11 07:24:33 PM  

Pokey.Clyde: jso2897: Well, if you were the creator of the galaxies and supernovas and black holes and event horizons - wouldn't you insist that some hairless apes on one of an infinite number of balls of dirt you created stop whatever they are doing and lavish praise upon you daily?

I hope you don't really think that it works that way. Otherwise, you're an even bigger moron than I've previously given you credit for.


So, what you're saying is that I don't need to go to church and kiss his rosy red ass?  I can go on and be a much better person than many Christians I meet?  Doing the Lord's work even though I don't worship him?  COOL!
 
2014-02-11 07:25:56 PM  

Summoner101: Why is there such a hard on for school prayer? Kids are at school for a third to half the day with break time through out to pray if they want. Is there not enough time in the day that kids need time cut away from learning to pray? God sounds like a prima donna if he needs that much attention.


They think that God is farking with the country because we "took prayer out of school".

/Seriously
 
2014-02-11 07:28:12 PM  
"I'm starting to think that the problems with Alabama education aren't with the kids, but with the adults and the people they elect to a position of supremacy over the education system.

i76.photobucket.com
 
2014-02-11 07:28:25 PM  

Pokey.Clyde: jso2897: Well, if you were the creator of the galaxies and supernovas and black holes and event horizons - wouldn't you insist that some hairless apes on one of an infinite number of balls of dirt you created stop whatever they are doing and lavish praise upon you daily?

I hope you don't really think that it works that way. Otherwise, you're an even bigger moron than I've previously given you credit for.


OF course it doesn't workf that way.... Let's be honest, God checks his email, and if there's no "likes", he defriends you.

/THEN he gets back to mixing supernovas, trimming blackholes, and.. oh yeah... playing dice.
 
2014-02-11 07:28:35 PM  

Heliovdrake: ManateeGag: Heliovdrake: It's ok because America is a Christian nation founded on Christian ideals.

it is?

totes bro. Totes.

In God we trust.

It ain't Thor or Odin were talking about on our money.


It doesn't say which God...
 
2014-02-11 07:29:26 PM  

RandomExcess: It is a learning experience for the kids, and a daily 15 min civics lesson is not too much to ask of future citizens.


There is a place for such learning experiences about the U.S. Congress. As you suggest, its in Civics class, where an entire unit (rather than 15 minutes) should be done on social and legal relationship between religion and government in the U.S., including (but not limited to) RFRA, the  Lemon case, the Hialeah case, and the  Barnettcase.

Of course, our Alabama legislator would not be happy with this entirely reasonable approach. Because he's acting in bad faith What about you?
 
2014-02-11 07:32:02 PM  
I'll never understand the far rights obsession with prayer in school.  Are they REALLY that insecure they need government validation of their beliefs?  Or is this just another way to harass the non-believers?
 
2014-02-11 07:32:35 PM  

Heliovdrake: It ain't Thor or Odin were talking about on our money.


Not Jesus either, since that's not on the money.
 
2014-02-11 07:32:37 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: I'll never understand the far rights obsession with prayer in school.  Are they REALLY that insecure they need government validation of their beliefs?  Or is this just another way to harass the non-believers?


Yes.
 
2014-02-11 07:32:40 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: I'll never understand the far rights obsession with prayer in school.  Are they REALLY that insecure they need government validation of their beliefs?  Or is this just another way to harass the non-believers?


Also yes.
 
2014-02-11 07:36:16 PM  
"But don't worry!  Rep. Steve Hurst is going to fix all of that. House Bill 318 has the solution to all those pesky education woes, and it won't cost the government a dime! "

LOLwut?

If this passes and i hope it does not it sure as hel will cost Alabama heavily defending its self in a lawsuit it cannot win.
 
2014-02-11 07:37:52 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: I'll never understand the far rights obsession with prayer in school.  Are they REALLY that insecure they need government validation of their beliefs?  Or is this just another way to harass the non-believers?


Absolutely yes.
 
2014-02-11 07:38:14 PM  

grimlock1972: "But don't worry!  Rep. Steve Hurst is going to fix all of that. House Bill 318 has the solution to all those pesky education woes, and it won't cost the government a dime! "

LOLwut?

If this passes and i hope it does not it sure as hel will cost Alabama heavily defending its self in a lawsuit it cannot win.


I personally look forward to John Carpenter's "Escape from the Deep South".

F*ck them all, they deserve all the bad sh*t that is happening to them.
 
2014-02-11 07:40:49 PM  
Is anyone else concerned that there are people who work in government looking for loopholes like this? No prayer in school? Fine, we'll put a prayer in something that IS permitted in school, and force the kids to read THAT. Holy shiat that's farked up in about ten different ways. It's like they're trying to game the system, but I can't even imagine what their end game is. Why does ANYONE care about making kids pray? I don't want my kids praying, so why are farkheads like this so concerned about making them do it? Who the hell cares?

Please, someone explain to me why these idiots care so much about making kids pray that they're willing to go to such Machiavellian lengths to make it happen. I totally don't get it.
 
2014-02-11 07:42:53 PM  

JerkStore: Is anyone else concerned that there are people who work in government looking for loopholes like this? No prayer in school? Fine, we'll put a prayer in something that IS permitted in school, and force the kids to read THAT. Holy shiat that's farked up in about ten different ways. It's like they're trying to game the system, but I can't even imagine what their end game is. Why does ANYONE care about making kids pray? I don't want my kids praying, so why are farkheads like this so concerned about making them do it? Who the hell cares?

Please, someone explain to me why these idiots care so much about making kids pray that they're willing to go to such Machiavellian lengths to make it happen. I totally don't get it.


If I can get your little Johnny to get Jesus into his heart, little Johnny is going to vote Republican because Republicanism is TOTALLY the way Jesus would have acted / behaved.
 
2014-02-11 07:45:14 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: I'll never understand the far rights obsession with prayer in school.  Are they REALLY that insecure they need government validation of their beliefs?  Or is this just another way to harass the non-believers?


It's complicated.

Back when it was predominantly Protestants in the US, they had some anti-Catholic sentiment, but no one really cared about prayer in schools, cause indeed the schoolhouses often had a minister teaching.  Well, eventually you had boatloads of Irish come over, and we had some Protestants start to freak out over Catholics getting government money to teach at Catholic schoolhouses, and they did a lot of reinforcing of the Wall of Separation of Church and State in the interim years (apologies for gross over simplification).

Fast forward to the Red Scare, and you had Christians of all stripes tripping over themselves trying to prove how Christian and therefore how American they were so they wouldn't be accused of being godless commies.

That, in my opinion is where a lot of this derp comes from.  You had a massive propaganda storm for 50+ years that equated godlessness with un-American behavior, and it is going to take a lot of time to correct that perception.

Never mind that the First Amendment specifically prohibits the government, both federal and state, from establishing a religion or preventing the free exercise thereof, they've gone so long starting sessions of the legislature with Christian prayers, swearing in on Bibles, putting God on our money, etc. that for someone to challenge that, it must mean they are un-American, evil, and out to destroy that which they feel makes this country great.
 
2014-02-11 07:54:26 PM  

sobriquet by any other name: Smackledorfer: hardinparamedic: Summoner101: Why is there such a hard on for school prayer? Kids are at school for a third to half the day with break time through out to pray if they want. Is there not enough time in the day that kids need time cut away from learning to pray? God sounds like a prima donna if he needs that much attention.

Because organized religion, especially fundamentalist, evangelical Christianity, is losing ground with the successive generations in America. Despite what some, including people who post on FARK, would like you to think, American Christians are doing a very good job at alienating the youth of America from being a part of their religion - mainly because of their support of social conservatism, and their hypocrisy when it comes to things like women and human rights in America. In addition, American children and teens are continually learning that they can think on their own with the move away from organized religion being involved in public schools since the 1970s, and even someone with a basic education in logic and history is going to question the idea that - for example - there is a big man in the clouds waiting to punish them for their slightest infraction.

The only way to get these kids is to get them early. The goal is indoctrination, pure and simple.

If you notice a running trend with these people, whenever it's Christianity, it's okay. But when it's a non-Christian religion, they write it off as people abusing the law, "trolling them", or just "hating Christians"

Jesus loves you despite your blasphemous words.

He saves.

He has what people crave.

Jesus saves...

[dontai.com image 300x250]

... $1.25 on tampons for the GOP


...but Gretzky puts in the rebound.

...the rest of you take full damage.

...gas by going 45 in the carpool lane like a douchebag.

/And when he's pulled over, he claims God is with him, thus justifying the carpool lane.
 
2014-02-11 07:55:23 PM  
"They could read the prayer from the day war was declared in World War II," he said. "They could read the prayer the day after Sept. 11."

Okay, you Dominionist Dickhead. How about this prayer?

izquotes.com
 
2014-02-11 07:58:09 PM  

Summoner101: Why is there such a hard on for school prayer?


Because if you pump in more prayer and deprive kids of education, you raise a new generation of rock-stupid, perpetually-afraid, conformist, violent, hate-filled, obedient hillbilly drones who will vote gop every time.

And the gop knows their current herd of gullible stupid idiots is dying off fast.
 
2014-02-11 08:00:09 PM  

JerkStore: Is anyone else concerned that there are people who work in government looking for loopholes like this? No prayer in school? Fine, we'll put a prayer in something that IS permitted in school, and force the kids to read THAT. Holy shiat that's farked up in about ten different ways. It's like they're trying to game the system, but I can't even imagine what their end game is. Why does ANYONE care about making kids pray? I don't want my kids praying, so why are farkheads like this so concerned about making them do it? Who the hell cares?

Please, someone explain to me why these idiots care so much about making kids pray that they're willing to go to such Machiavellian lengths to make it happen. I totally don't get it.


It's less about Jesus and more about political power. The first church (or politician) who can successfully force prayer into schools wins a ton of political clout in the Deep South. That's why they keep looking for loopholes to try to circumvent the Constitution.
 
2014-02-11 08:05:52 PM  
i1.cpcache.com
 
2014-02-11 08:07:33 PM  

gravy chugging cretin.: Zeppelininthesky: Summoner101: BMulligan: Summoner101: Why is there such a hard on for school prayer? Kids are at school for a third to half the day with break time through out to pray if they want. Is there not enough time in the day that kids need time cut away from learning to pray? God sounds like a prima donna if he needs that much attention.

We can't possibly miss a single opportunity to indoctrinate our children. Also, if there is no school prayer, it logically follows that they must be worshiping Satan there.

You make a good point though I almost want it to happen to see what they do the first time a group of Muslims, Wiccans, or Satanists start praying together.

Pass a law that they can face Mecca for a moment of silence.

Bring a prayer rug and bow?

I should try to find out when the local LCMS kiddies are going to visit a public school and "Pray Around The Flag" and join them.  I have the perfect Afghan prayer rug for the occasion


This is most certainly true.
 
2014-02-11 08:10:12 PM  
Even in Alabama, this isn't going to get through the legislature.

/right?
 
2014-02-11 08:28:30 PM  
I hope someone makes them study this prayer.
 
2014-02-11 08:31:02 PM  
I'm not even comfortable with there being a chaplain in Congress, really. Why would I want this?

Until churches dedicated to cycling and marijuana are taken as seriously as Judeo-Christian ones, the whole concept is offensive.
 
2014-02-11 08:38:28 PM  

jso2897: Summoner101: Why is there such a hard on for school prayer? Kids are at school for a third to half the day with break time through out to pray if they want. Is there not enough time in the day that kids need time cut away from learning to pray? God sounds like a prima donna if he needs that much attention.

Well, if you were the creator of the galaxies and supernovas and black holes and event horizons - wouldn't you insist that some hairless apes on one of an infinite number of balls of dirt you created stop whatever they are doing and lavish praise upon you daily?


lol

That was awesome.
 
2014-02-11 08:41:57 PM  
Dred Scott wasn't clear to Lincoln. What's your point?
 
2014-02-11 08:46:18 PM  

coeyagi: Pokey.Clyde: jso2897: Well, if you were the creator of the galaxies and supernovas and black holes and event horizons - wouldn't you insist that some hairless apes on one of an infinite number of balls of dirt you created stop whatever they are doing and lavish praise upon you daily?

I hope you don't really think that it works that way. Otherwise, you're an even bigger moron than I've previously given you credit for.

So, what you're saying is that I don't need to go to church and kiss his rosy red ass?  I can go on and be a much better person than many Christians I meet?  Doing the Lord's work even though I don't worship him?  COOL!


I'm waiting for him to explain how things really work.

/popcorn
 
2014-02-11 08:53:49 PM  

Summoner101: Why is there such a hard on for school prayer? Kids are at school for a third to half the day with break time through out to pray if they want. Is there not enough time in the day that kids need time cut away from learning to pray? God sounds like a prima donna if he needs that much attention.


Because they've been told they can't do it.  And since they need constant reinforcement because their faith and ideals are weak, they think everyone else needs it too.
 
2014-02-11 08:55:05 PM  

Aquapope: FTFA:"Hurst said the bill would help students learn more about history and civics."

And what happens when the clergy invited to give a prayer is Muslim, or Hindu, or Scientologist, or some such.  Will it then be just about history and civics, ir will it be "they're trying to make my baby not be a Chreeestian!!!!"


Ha.  Let a Catholic try to lead one.
 
2014-02-11 08:58:43 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: I'll never understand the far rights obsession with prayer in school.  Are they REALLY that insecure they need government validation of their beliefs?  Or is this just another way to harass the non-believers?


Having seen what they do with marriage, ya... they really do need government validation of their beliefs.
 
2014-02-11 09:05:21 PM  

Noam Chimpsky: Dred Scott wasn't clear to Lincoln. What's your point?


The one on top of your pin head.
 
2014-02-11 09:08:44 PM  

Noam Chimpsky: Dred Scott wasn't clear to Lincoln. What's your point?



[Judge Douglas] denounces all who question the correctness of that decision, as offering violent resistance to it. But who resists it? Who has, in spite of the decision, declared Dred Scott free, and resisted the authority of his master over him?
Judicial decisions have two uses-first, to absolutely determine the case decided, and secondly, to indicate to the public how other similar cases will be decided when they arise. For the latter use, they are called "precedents" and "authorities."

We believe, as much as Judge Douglas, (perhaps more) in obedience to, and respect for the judicial department of government. We think its decisions on Constitutional questions, when fully settled, should control, not only the particular cases decided, but the general policy of the country, subject to be disturbed only by amendments of the Constitution as provided in that instrument itself. More than this would be revolution. But we think the Dred Scott decision is erroneous. We know the court that made it, has often over-ruled its own decisions, and we shall do what we can to have it to over-rule this. We offer no resistance to it.


http://teachingamericanhistory.org/library/document/speech-on-the-dr ed -scott-decision/

I think he had the gist of it.
 
2014-02-11 09:11:19 PM  
How weak is their faith that they need validated every five minutes?

Religion turns people off of religion.
 
2014-02-11 09:16:27 PM  

Heliovdrake: It's ok because America is a Christian nation founded on Christian ideals.


You are free to worship any Jesus you want.
 
2014-02-11 09:18:02 PM  

RandomExcess: a daily 15 min civics lesson


Is not what's happening here.
 
2014-02-11 09:21:27 PM  

Fart_Machine: Heliovdrake: It's ok because America is a Christian nation founded on Christian ideals.

You are free to worship any Jesus you want.


The hell you are. You'll worship Southern Evangelical Jesus and you'll like it.
 
2014-02-11 09:42:45 PM  
Mr. Justice Kennedy has never liked Lemon v. Kurtzman. The new "accommodationist" (dominionist) court will surely roll it back, if not overturn it entirely.
 
2014-02-11 09:57:34 PM  

coeyagi: Pokey.Clyde: jso2897: Well, if you were the creator of the galaxies and supernovas and black holes and event horizons - wouldn't you insist that some hairless apes on one of an infinite number of balls of dirt you created stop whatever they are doing and lavish praise upon you daily?

I hope you don't really think that it works that way. Otherwise, you're an even bigger moron than I've previously given you credit for.

So, what you're saying is that I don't need to go to church and kiss his rosy red ass?  I can go on and be a much better person than many Christians I meet?  Doing the Lord's work even though I don't worship him?  COOL!


Eh, I'm not Christian, but even I can call this the strawman troll that it is.  Nevertheless, I'll bite.

The conception of prayer varies from one tradition to another, but the idea of Christian meditative prayer has been around since way back in the middle ages.  This is what the repetition of formulaic prayers in Catholic practice is about, and if you look past the set dressings and costumes, it can look very much like Eastern meditative practice.  Protestants ditched this practice, but many have held on to the offshoot idea of contemplative prayer as the ideal that formulaic prayers are meant to help lead one to.

While theologians all have something different to say on prayer, the one common theme is that prayer pleases God because it is somehow a good exercise for the one doing the praying.  The particular benefits of this exercise are where things diverge again, but for instance, you'll hear that it helps one discern God's will (as a non-Christian, I reinterpret this process as one discovering oneself through contemplation and inward reflection) or is how one strives for virtue and eliminates vice (or as I would say, attempting to improve oneself through regular reflection on one's actions and motivations).

The one thing that doesn't come into play in any of this is slobbering God's knob just because he likes it, although I have seen many a charismatic Christian (read: poorly read on anything beyond the Bible) who certainly seem to act otherwise.

All of that aside, what are these farks thinking mandating prayer in school?  Can we institute public whippings for any legislator who puts forwards a bill that's found egregiously unconstitutional? Then this regular little parade of idiocy could get kinda entertaining.
 
2014-02-11 10:04:57 PM  
Some reflections on "prayer":

A Letter From God
Dear Humanity: I don't mean to be rude, but would you all be so kind as to shut the f**k up? Even in my omnipotence, I lack the means to express how deeply, profoundly bored I am with you and your endless snivelling. Your hubris and sense of entitlement boggles even my infinite mind. I should have let you perish the last time you screwed up, and you can be sure I'll never lift another of my mighty fingers to save you from your own stupidity again.
Just as an example, it has recently come to my attention that, among other absurdities, many of you actually think I care what you do to each other with your naughty bits. Are you for real?
Heres some truth for you: You are not "divine beings" - not in any sense of the word. You are smelly, quarrelsome, incredibly vain hairless apes. I don't know what the hell I was thinking when I created you (to be fair, the Evolve-o-matic is a rather unreliable piece of hardware, and you can't always predict what it will spit out), but let's just say that you are far from my best work.
Get the f**k over yourselves.
And as far as prayer - I put that on voicemail a long time ago - and I just dump it every millenia or so.
Do you seriously think I'm going to listen to that crap? "Make Julio truly love me!" - "Cure my mother's cancer!" - "End war and hunger!"
On an on and on until I want to fry your whole friggin' planet with a supernova.
And that last one REALLY pisses me off. You want to end war? How about you stop killing each other over s***t a dog would know better than to fight over, you jackwagons?
You want to end hunger - how 'bout you give each other some food now and then, you stupid bastards? It's not like I didn't give you abundance far beyond any of your petty, pointless needs.
Seriously - I don't f**king care, and quit caring long ago.
I gave you everything you need to establish this "Heaven"* place you're always yapping about, all by yourselves. So do it, you lazy cocksuckers!!!

* As far as "Heaven" - do you honestly think I'm going to bring any of you up here to live with me after you kick it? So you can f**k up my home the way you've f**ked up yours? Think again.
And no, Lucifer doesn't want you either. He's a man of wealth and taste, for s***t's sake! Do you think he wants to hang around with a bunch of louse-ridden monkeys that can't find their asses with both hands in broad daylight?
How 'bout "No".
I gave you a good long lifetime - make something out of it, like the one or two percent of you who are worth shiat already do.
In conclusion - just shut the f**k up. I'm not listening.
Sincerely yours, God.
 
2014-02-11 10:08:12 PM  

Noam Chimpsky: Dred Scott wasn't clear to Lincoln. What's your point?


Instead of being vague, why not chime in on the proposed legislation described in TFA? Do you agree with it or not? Simple question. Do you think it makes sense to require the reading of a prayer every day in public schools?
 
2014-02-11 10:12:38 PM  

theknuckler_33: Noam Chimpsky: Dred Scott wasn't clear to Lincoln. What's your point?

Instead of being vague, why not chime in on the proposed legislation described in TFA? Do you agree with it or not? Simple question. Do you think it makes sense to require the reading of a prayer every day in public schools?


That would involve posting on-topic. That would break one of Noam's little rules.
 
2014-02-11 10:16:03 PM  
Smackledorfer:

Jesus loves you despite your blasphemous words.
He saves.
He has what people crave.



Nordic blue eyes??
 
2014-02-11 10:16:28 PM  

oldernell: Heliovdrake: In God we trust.

Everyone else pays cash.


And it's two in the mornin' on Saturday night
At Rosalie's Good Eats Café.
 
2014-02-11 10:17:41 PM  

firefly212: Having seen what they do with marriage, ya... they really do need government validation of their beliefs.


It's getting to where they seem to need every validation that they can get.
 
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