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(Patheos)   Because Lemon v. Kurtzman wasn't clear enough for him, Alabama legislator proposes bill that would require 15 minutes of prayer reading every school day. But it's okay, 'cuz it's a prayer from the House and Senate records, right?   (patheos.com) divider line 125
    More: Dumbass, Alabama, Senate, Alabama legislator, prayers  
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1717 clicks; posted to Politics » on 11 Feb 2014 at 6:20 PM (31 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-02-11 04:51:33 PM
It's ok because America is a Christian nation founded on Christian ideals.
 
2014-02-11 04:59:16 PM

Heliovdrake: It's ok because America is a Christian nation founded on Christian ideals.


it is?
 
2014-02-11 05:21:08 PM

ManateeGag: Heliovdrake: It's ok because America is a Christian nation founded on Christian ideals.

it is?


totes bro. Totes.

In God we trust.

It ain't Thor or Odin were talking about on our money.
 
2014-02-11 05:30:49 PM

ManateeGag: Heliovdrake: It's ok because America is a Christian nation founded on Christian ideals.

it is?


Why do you hate America and it's Judeo-Christian heritage? Do you hate Jeezus our lord and savior, too? I bet you're one of them commie pinkos.
 
2014-02-11 05:47:31 PM

Heliovdrake: In God we trust.


Everyone else pays cash.
 
2014-02-11 05:56:38 PM

Heliovdrake: It ain't Thor or Odin were talking about on our money.


it ain't god or yaweh we're talking about in our constitution or declaration of independence, either.
 
2014-02-11 06:05:41 PM
"Let's waste more money."
 
2014-02-11 06:16:39 PM
Submitter, I know this has been pointed out to you by someone else before, but....

They don't care. You can quote SCOTUS and Constitutional law to these people till you're blue in the face. They genuinely believe that none of that matters, because "God is on their side" and they'll win in the end.
 
2014-02-11 06:24:20 PM
For a party that hates to have government waste, they sure love to waste money on petty crap like this.
 
2014-02-11 06:26:36 PM
Why is there such a hard on for school prayer? Kids are at school for a third to half the day with break time through out to pray if they want. Is there not enough time in the day that kids need time cut away from learning to pray? God sounds like a prima donna if he needs that much attention.
 
2014-02-11 06:30:38 PM
is this Alabama looking at Kansas, Louisiana and Missouri and screaming "we have more Jesus than you!"
 
2014-02-11 06:30:46 PM

Summoner101: Why is there such a hard on for school prayer? Kids are at school for a third to half the day with break time through out to pray if they want. Is there not enough time in the day that kids need time cut away from learning to pray? God sounds like a prima donna if he needs that much attention.


We can't possibly miss a single opportunity to indoctrinate our children. Also, if there is no school prayer, it logically follows that they must be worshiping Satan there.
 
2014-02-11 06:31:32 PM

Summoner101: Why is there such a hard on for school prayer? Kids are at school for a third to half the day with break time through out to pray if they want. Is there not enough time in the day that kids need time cut away from learning to pray? God sounds like a prima donna if he needs that much attention.


You think they want kids to actually learn things like history, science, and math? Ha. If they learned that, how will they grow up to be Republicans?
 
2014-02-11 06:32:13 PM

hardinparamedic: Submitter, I know this has been pointed out to you by someone else before, but....

They don't care. You can quote SCOTUS and Constitutional law to these people till you're blue in the face. They genuinely believe that none of that matters, because "God is on their side" and they'll win in the end.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KTkRAzxppY
 
2014-02-11 06:35:36 PM

Summoner101: Why is there such a hard on for school prayer? Kids are at school for a third to half the day with break time through out to pray if they want. Is there not enough time in the day that kids need time cut away from learning to pray? God sounds like a prima donna if he needs that much attention.


Because organized religion, especially fundamentalist, evangelical Christianity, is losing ground with the successive generations in America. Despite what some, including people who post on FARK, would like you to think, American Christians are doing a very good job at alienating the youth of America from being a part of their religion - mainly because of their support of social conservatism, and their hypocrisy when it comes to things like women and human rights in America. In addition, American children and teens are continually learning that they can think on their own with the move away from organized religion being involved in public schools since the 1970s, and even someone with a basic education in logic and history is going to question the idea that - for example - there is a big man in the clouds waiting to punish them for their slightest infraction.

The only way to get these kids is to get them early. The goal is indoctrination, pure and simple.

If you notice a running trend with these people, whenever it's Christianity, it's okay. But when it's a non-Christian religion, they write it off as people abusing the law, "trolling them", or just "hating Christians"
 
2014-02-11 06:36:38 PM

BMulligan: Summoner101: Why is there such a hard on for school prayer? Kids are at school for a third to half the day with break time through out to pray if they want. Is there not enough time in the day that kids need time cut away from learning to pray? God sounds like a prima donna if he needs that much attention.

We can't possibly miss a single opportunity to indoctrinate our children. Also, if there is no school prayer, it logically follows that they must be worshiping Satan there.


You make a good point though I almost want it to happen to see what they do the first time a group of Muslims, Wiccans, or Satanists start praying together.
 
2014-02-11 06:38:45 PM

Summoner101: BMulligan: Summoner101: Why is there such a hard on for school prayer? Kids are at school for a third to half the day with break time through out to pray if they want. Is there not enough time in the day that kids need time cut away from learning to pray? God sounds like a prima donna if he needs that much attention.

We can't possibly miss a single opportunity to indoctrinate our children. Also, if there is no school prayer, it logically follows that they must be worshiping Satan there.

You make a good point though I almost want it to happen to see what they do the first time a group of Muslims, Wiccans, or Satanists start praying together.


Pass a law that they can face Mecca for a moment of silence.
 
2014-02-11 06:40:17 PM

UncomfortableSilence: is this Alabama looking at Kansas, Louisiana and Missouri and screaming "we have more Jesus than you!"


Yes, yes it is, and they are not ashamed about any of it. They are of the mind that the more you scream and shout that you are a "Good Christian", and try to make everyone else worship the Great Sky Captain, the more likely it is that the Great Sky Captain will hear you (and, allegedly, believe you, and find you worthy of being blessed by the Great Sky Captain by fulfilling your most earnest desires). I, personally, am of the opinion that, if the Great Sky Captain exists, he is frowning on their hijinks and has them on his list of souls to be condemned to bailing out the bilge of his ship... with a soup strainer.
 
2014-02-11 06:42:38 PM
How about we put the one he wants, and the ones these guys gave

upload.wikimedia.org upload.wikimedia.org

in a hat, randomly pick one,  and read which ever one comes up?
 
2014-02-11 06:43:10 PM
It is a learning experience for the kids, and a daily 15 min civics lesson is not too much to ask of future citizens.
 
2014-02-11 06:44:33 PM
I grew up in England. We have a state religion, and we had prayers and hymns in school every morning. And I'm here to tell you, it doesn't stick. We might as well have been reciting nonsense syllables.

So the double-derp here is that not only is this unconstitutional, it's also futile. But at least the people advocating it get to feel good about themselves.
 
2014-02-11 06:46:17 PM

RandomExcess: It is a learning experience for the kids, and a daily 15 min civics lesson is not too much to ask of future citizens.


static1.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2014-02-11 06:48:31 PM

Summoner101: Why is there such a hard on for school prayer? Kids are at school for a third to half the day with break time through out to pray if they want. Is there not enough time in the day that kids need time cut away from learning to pray? God sounds like a prima donna if he needs that much attention.


Well, if you were the creator of the galaxies and supernovas and black holes and event horizons - wouldn't you insist that some hairless apes on one of an infinite number of balls of dirt you created stop whatever they are doing and lavish praise upon you daily?
 
2014-02-11 06:48:50 PM
Mr. Hurst, just how many pounds of paint chips did you eat as a child??
 
2014-02-11 06:49:43 PM
 FTFA:"Hurst said the bill would help students learn more about history and civics."

And what happens when the clergy invited to give a prayer is Muslim, or Hindu, or Scientologist, or some such.  Will it then be just about history and civics, ir will it be "they're trying to make my baby not be a Chreeestian!!!!"
 
2014-02-11 06:49:55 PM

RandomExcess: It is a learning experience for the kids, and a daily 15 min civics lesson is not too much to ask of future citizens.


The "civics lesson" in question being "What theocrats will do if you don't stop them."
 
2014-02-11 06:52:35 PM

Zeppelininthesky: Summoner101: BMulligan: Summoner101: Why is there such a hard on for school prayer? Kids are at school for a third to half the day with break time through out to pray if they want. Is there not enough time in the day that kids need time cut away from learning to pray? God sounds like a prima donna if he needs that much attention.

We can't possibly miss a single opportunity to indoctrinate our children. Also, if there is no school prayer, it logically follows that they must be worshiping Satan there.

You make a good point though I almost want it to happen to see what they do the first time a group of Muslims, Wiccans, or Satanists start praying together.

Pass a law that they can face Mecca for a moment of silence.


Bring a prayer rug and bow?

I should try to find out when the local LCMS kiddies are going to visit a public school and "Pray Around The Flag" and join them.  I have the perfect Afghan prayer rug for the occasion
 
2014-02-11 06:52:48 PM

RandomExcess: It is a learning experience for the kids, and a daily 15 min civics lesson is not too much to ask of future citizens.


Daily civics lessons from the Congressional record can easily be learned without the use of the daily prayer. Thus, prong 3 of the Lemon test (excessive religious entanglement) is violated.  And, since it limits its reading of the Congressional record to only the daily prayers, it thus can be argued to fail prong 2, as well.  The argument would pass prong 1 if and only if the entire Congressional record was allowed; but in limiting the scope to the daily prayers, it also fails prong 1.  So this bill is wholly and entirely unconstitutional, and fails at the purpose you falsely ascribe to it.

/Thus, why I used Lemon v. Kurtzman in th headline.
 
2014-02-11 06:53:01 PM
No big deal, just get one of the few Democrats in the Alabama legislature to add a clause to the bill requiring that they must pray to a different god each day.  15 mins for the Xtian god, Tuesday pray to Allah, Wednesday Odin, Thursday Thor, Friday Jupiter...I bet they will back the hell up off the bill really quickly.  Also, why the hell are their prayers being read in their House and Senate either?  Should Alabama just go ahead and change it's name to "The Iran of the South?"
 
2014-02-11 06:55:43 PM

hardinparamedic: Submitter, I know this has been pointed out to you by someone else before, but....

They don't care. You can quote SCOTUS and Constitutional law to these people till you're blue in the face. They genuinely believe that none of that matters, because "God is on their side" and they'll win in the end.


That's why you hit 'em across the nose with a rolled-up newspaper Constitution and say "Bad legislator! No treat for you!"

/Then make them stick their nose in the Unconstitutionality of it.
 
2014-02-11 06:57:33 PM

Summoner101: Why is there such a hard on for school prayer? Kids are at school for a third to half the day with break time through out to pray if they want. Is there not enough time in the day that kids need time cut away from learning to pray? God sounds like a prima donna if he needs that much attention.


These people want to validate their religion over all other religions and by having the government recognize Christianity and not Hindi or any others gives them 'clout'.  It's not about teaching children morals, government or history or even religion.  It's about official validation of your beliefs.  It's like when Scientology focused on getting the IRS to make them tax-exempt.
 
2014-02-11 06:57:51 PM

hardinparamedic: Summoner101: Why is there such a hard on for school prayer? Kids are at school for a third to half the day with break time through out to pray if they want. Is there not enough time in the day that kids need time cut away from learning to pray? God sounds like a prima donna if he needs that much attention.

Because organized religion, especially fundamentalist, evangelical Christianity, is losing ground with the successive generations in America. Despite what some, including people who post on FARK, would like you to think, American Christians are doing a very good job at alienating the youth of America from being a part of their religion - mainly because of their support of social conservatism, and their hypocrisy when it comes to things like women and human rights in America. In addition, American children and teens are continually learning that they can think on their own with the move away from organized religion being involved in public schools since the 1970s, and even someone with a basic education in logic and history is going to question the idea that - for example - there is a big man in the clouds waiting to punish them for their slightest infraction.

The only way to get these kids is to get them early. The goal is indoctrination, pure and simple.

If you notice a running trend with these people, whenever it's Christianity, it's okay. But when it's a non-Christian religion, they write it off as people abusing the law, "trolling them", or just "hating Christians"


Jesus loves you despite your blasphemous words.

He saves.

He has what people crave.
 
2014-02-11 06:58:45 PM

IlGreven: hardinparamedic: Submitter, I know this has been pointed out to you by someone else before, but....

They don't care. You can quote SCOTUS and Constitutional law to these people till you're blue in the face. They genuinely believe that none of that matters, because "God is on their side" and they'll win in the end.

That's why you hit 'em across the nose with a rolled-up newspaper Constitution and say "Bad legislator! No treat for you!"

/Then make them stick their nose in the Unconstitutionality of it.


Any politician that submits legislation that violates the constitution (either when submitted or after a ruling) should be fired.
 
2014-02-11 06:58:53 PM
We really do need a law that states that when a legislator submits a piece of legislation that is ruled unconstitutional, they have to forfeit their pay for the year.
 
2014-02-11 07:01:37 PM
www.theringlord.org
 
2014-02-11 07:02:58 PM

IlGreven: hardinparamedic: Submitter, I know this has been pointed out to you by someone else before, but....

They don't care. You can quote SCOTUS and Constitutional law to these people till you're blue in the face. They genuinely believe that none of that matters, because "God is on their side" and they'll win in the end.

That's why you hit 'em across the nose with a rolled-up newspaper Constitution and say "Bad legislator! No treat for you!"

/Then make them stick their nose in the Unconstitutionality of it.


This only works if you catch them in the act. Otherwise they just look at you with sad eyes and you've taught them nothing.
 
2014-02-11 07:03:05 PM

Smackledorfer: hardinparamedic: Summoner101: Why is there such a hard on for school prayer? Kids are at school for a third to half the day with break time through out to pray if they want. Is there not enough time in the day that kids need time cut away from learning to pray? God sounds like a prima donna if he needs that much attention.

Because organized religion, especially fundamentalist, evangelical Christianity, is losing ground with the successive generations in America. Despite what some, including people who post on FARK, would like you to think, American Christians are doing a very good job at alienating the youth of America from being a part of their religion - mainly because of their support of social conservatism, and their hypocrisy when it comes to things like women and human rights in America. In addition, American children and teens are continually learning that they can think on their own with the move away from organized religion being involved in public schools since the 1970s, and even someone with a basic education in logic and history is going to question the idea that - for example - there is a big man in the clouds waiting to punish them for their slightest infraction.

The only way to get these kids is to get them early. The goal is indoctrination, pure and simple.

If you notice a running trend with these people, whenever it's Christianity, it's okay. But when it's a non-Christian religion, they write it off as people abusing the law, "trolling them", or just "hating Christians"

Jesus loves you despite your blasphemous words.

He saves.

He has what people crave.


Electrolytes?
 
2014-02-11 07:03:06 PM
You know who else doesn't think Lemon v. Kurtzman applies any more?

Well, Scalia and Thomas, for sure, since at least the early 1990s.  Probably Roberts and Alito as well, and quite possibly Kennedy.
 
2014-02-11 07:04:17 PM

Smackledorfer: hardinparamedic: Summoner101: Why is there such a hard on for school prayer? Kids are at school for a third to half the day with break time through out to pray if they want. Is there not enough time in the day that kids need time cut away from learning to pray? God sounds like a prima donna if he needs that much attention.

Because organized religion, especially fundamentalist, evangelical Christianity, is losing ground with the successive generations in America. Despite what some, including people who post on FARK, would like you to think, American Christians are doing a very good job at alienating the youth of America from being a part of their religion - mainly because of their support of social conservatism, and their hypocrisy when it comes to things like women and human rights in America. In addition, American children and teens are continually learning that they can think on their own with the move away from organized religion being involved in public schools since the 1970s, and even someone with a basic education in logic and history is going to question the idea that - for example - there is a big man in the clouds waiting to punish them for their slightest infraction.

The only way to get these kids is to get them early. The goal is indoctrination, pure and simple.

If you notice a running trend with these people, whenever it's Christianity, it's okay. But when it's a non-Christian religion, they write it off as people abusing the law, "trolling them", or just "hating Christians"

Jesus loves you despite your blasphemous words.

He saves.

He has what people crave.


Jesus saves...

dontai.com

... $1.25 on tampons for the GOP
 
2014-02-11 07:04:21 PM

hardinparamedic: The only way to get these kids is to get them early. The goal is indoctrination, pure and simple.


To paraphrase Doug Stanhope: "Nobody would believe that shiat if you didn't push it through the soft spot on their skulls when their young."
 
2014-02-11 07:09:26 PM
So I understand the desire to instill morals into public schools that have seen a drastic change over the past two decades, school prayer would dilute it into pointlessness. Likewise ignoring the Christian heritage of the country ignores history. Both parties would be served by focusing a little more on the heritage in school and keeping prayers at home and Church where they can be explored and instilled with meaning.
 
2014-02-11 07:09:46 PM

sobriquet by any other name: Jesus saves...


Espo scores on the rebound.
 
2014-02-11 07:10:04 PM

Teresaol31: No big deal, just get one of the few Democrats in the Alabama legislature to add a clause to the bill requiring that they must pray to a different god each day.  15 mins for the Xtian god, Tuesday pray to Allah, Wednesday Odin, Thursday Thor, Friday Jupiter...I bet they will back the hell up off the bill really quickly.  Also, why the hell are their prayers being read in their House and Senate either?  Should Alabama just go ahead and change it's name to "The Iran of the South?"


*intercom crackles*

"Good morning, we'd like to remind all students of the upcoming academic decathalon will be attended by our Mathaletes and all students are welcome to attend and cheer them on. I'd also like to remind you that after last year's embarrassing behavior, eggs and old fruit are no longer allowed in the auditorium."

"Please bow your hear for our morning prayer. Today it will be to... how do you even say this? Cutoolhoo? Is that right?"

"Ia! Ia! Shub Niggurath! Ia Cthulhu! Ph'nglui Mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!"
 
2014-02-11 07:11:19 PM

Huck And Molly Ziegler: Mr. Hurst, just how many pounds of paint chips wall candy did you eat as a child??


Please use terminology that he will understand.
 
2014-02-11 07:12:57 PM

Cyberluddite: You know who else doesn't think Lemon v. Kurtzman applies any more?

Well, Scalia and Thomas, for sure, since at least the early 1990s.  Probably Roberts and Alito as well, and quite possibly Kennedy.


Fire their asses too.
 
2014-02-11 07:15:13 PM
killyourculture.com
 
2014-02-11 07:15:18 PM
Yah know, I almost want this to pass.

/I always wanted to be a test case . . .
 
2014-02-11 07:15:37 PM
Because to hold office in a slave state you have to jump through all sorts of hoops to prove you'll never see the elephant in the room.
 
2014-02-11 07:18:25 PM
"They could read the prayer the day after Sept. 11."

Is that the one that ends with "Allahu Akbar"?
 
2014-02-11 07:18:44 PM
I get the purpose of proselytization, but this extreme imposition, this coercion into religion baffles me. It is so blatantly desperate, so abundantly counterintuitive, so pants-sh*ttingly aggressive, how can they possibly think that people will even consider converting, or barring conversion, sit idly by without raising a fuss? Unless, of course, the long(ish)-term goal is to use that "opposition" (inferred to be "oppression" by the most conservative wingnuts) to further rile up the base (LOOK HOW MUCH THESE LIBRULS HATE OUR RELIGION), keeping the "oppressed Christian" machine whirling and twirling far into eternity. It may also just be a by-product that they have no idea how (or intention to) control.

Whatever the case, reserving 15 minutes at the end of a school day for anything but school work seems kind of dumb.
 
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