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(Guardian)   Will Chelsea extend their lead at the top of the table? Can Cardiff pull themselves out of the relegation zone? Will Manchester United cross themselves out of contention? Can Arsenal shake off their humiliating defeat? This is your midweek EPL thread   (theguardian.com) divider line 291
    More: Cool, Man Utd, Prem, Liverpool, arsenals, strikers  
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283 clicks; posted to Sports » on 12 Feb 2014 at 2:00 PM (28 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-02-11 10:19:32 AM
I have a horrible feeling that Utd are going to be on the wrong end of an Arsenal backlash tomorrow.

I also have a feeling they are going to break their own record for crosses into the box easily cleared by the opposition defence.
 
2014-02-11 10:25:49 AM

czetie: I have a horrible feeling that Utd are going to be on the wrong end of an Arsenal backlash tomorrow.

I also have a feeling they are going to break their own record for crosses into the box easily cleared by the opposition defence.


I have to find where I read this, but a Fulham player compared Utd's crossing to that of a Conference side.
 
2014-02-11 10:31:48 AM

desertgeek: czetie: I have a horrible feeling that Utd are going to be on the wrong end of an Arsenal backlash tomorrow.

I also have a feeling they are going to break their own record for crosses into the box easily cleared by the opposition defence.

I have to find where I read this, but a Fulham player compared Utd's crossing to that of a Conference side.


I read it on BBC Sport, because that's where I get all my soccer news, but I'm pretty sure it was widely reported.
 
2014-02-11 10:46:18 AM
Speaking of Fulham, there were fears that tomorrow's Fulham-Liverpool match might get postponed due to an Underground strike. With the strike postponed, the match is on.

Also, it's been confirmed that at the upcoming Hillsborough anniversary memorial, Everton's Roberto Martinez will be speaking as well as Brendan Rodgers.
 
2014-02-11 11:01:26 AM
What time do today's matches kick off?
 
2014-02-11 11:07:22 AM
 
2014-02-11 11:21:23 AM
Come On You Irons -- let's have three wins in a row and get even more distant from the relegation zone!
 
2014-02-11 11:49:27 AM

dietbubba: What time do today's matches kick off?


12:45pm ET or 1pm ET.

Apparently, there's no pregame show for NBCSN today due to Olympics coverage. But the main match is on NBCSN today and tomorrow.
 
2014-02-11 11:55:53 AM

desertgeek: dietbubba: What time do today's matches kick off?

12:45pm ET or 1pm ET.

Apparently, there's no pregame show for NBCSN today due to Olympics coverage. But the main match is on NBCSN today and tomorrow.


I'm streaming at work just needed to know the time.
 
2014-02-11 12:12:03 PM
Will Manchester United cross themselves out of contention?

"DID" Manchester United cross themselves out of contention.  I believe DID is the word you were looking for, submitter.
 
2014-02-11 12:16:22 PM
i found this one particularly amusing this morning...

img.fark.net
 
2014-02-11 12:28:55 PM

socalnewwaver: i found this one particularly amusing this morning...

[img.fark.net image 436x617]


At the risk of repeating myself, I suggest this was Moyes' plan all along.

Having lulled his rivals into a sense of security so that they aren't afraid to sell him good players... BOOM! Surprise! He will... uh... continue to tank the rest of the season, leaving Utd unable to attract players with Champions League ambitions.

Damn.
 
2014-02-11 01:46:02 PM
Oi! This is a private members bar, exclusively for supporters of the greatest football team in the world, Manchester United, now please. Enlighten me.

crackedajester.files.wordpress.com
/hehe
//oh look, another cross ... and cleared
 
2014-02-11 01:48:30 PM
Well ManU still has the big afro guy, so that's something.
 
2014-02-11 01:52:37 PM
Arsenal better get their shiat together in a hurry. Saturday was a level of pathetic I didn't think they were capable of.
 
2014-02-11 02:01:33 PM
scontent-a-iad.xx.fbcdn.net
 
2014-02-11 02:04:44 PM

desertgeek: Speaking of Fulham, there were fears that tomorrow's Fulham-Liverpool match might get postponed due to an Underground strike. With the strike postponed, the match is on.

Also, it's been confirmed that at the upcoming Hillsborough anniversary memorial, Everton's Roberto Martinez will be speaking as well as Brendan Rodgers.


Hey, now, can't strike when there's football to be watched.
 
2014-02-11 02:08:00 PM
COME ON YOU IRRRRRRRRRRRONS
 
2014-02-11 02:08:05 PM

socalnewwaver: i found this one particularly amusing this morning...

[img.fark.net image 436x617]


As an American who enjoys watching soccer, I just can't understand how the whole transfer thing works. Why in the world would teams give away players simply for cash, particularly to another team they're playing against?
 
2014-02-11 02:14:18 PM

MugzyBrown: Well ManU still has the big afro guy, so that's something.


Not really, he's still injured.

Here's hoping that West Brom stuns Chelsea
 
2014-02-11 02:35:33 PM

meanmutton: socalnewwaver: i found this one particularly amusing this morning...

[img.fark.net image 436x617]

As an American who enjoys watching soccer, I just can't understand how the whole transfer thing works. Why in the world would teams give away players simply for cash, particularly to another team they're playing against?


Because otherwise at the end of a contract, a player is a free agent. It's like how non-contending baseball teams trade away all their players on a contract year before the trade deadline, so as to get something instead of nothing.

In terms of getting cash, that's just how the transfer market is set up. Sometimes you'll see teams attempt to actually trade players, but it rarely works. If you get cash, you can just go out and buy another player that fits your needs. Trading would require one of the guys on the other team actually fit your plans, and the team wants to get rid of him. With hundreds of top-flight teams around the world with players to choose from, you're better off taking the cash.
 
2014-02-11 02:42:17 PM

AmazinTim: [scontent-a-iad.xx.fbcdn.net image 400x400]


that is awesome.
 
2014-02-11 02:46:47 PM

meanmutton: socalnewwaver: i found this one particularly amusing this morning...

[img.fark.net image 436x617]

As an American who enjoys watching soccer, I just can't understand how the whole transfer thing works. Why in the world would teams give away players simply for cash, particularly to another team they're playing against?



Because they are going to lose that player when his contract runs out for nothing. In Europe the clubs realize that it is better to get something for the player while he is still under control than to let him walk away as a free agent.

As an American I wish our major sports leagues would adopt this same practice. Trade or sell a player before his contract runs out, don't let an asset that you have spent time and money developing just walk away, get something for him. The NFL actually hits teams with Salary Cap penalties if they trade away a player before the last year of his contract. Why this is done bogles my mind. Why would you penalize your teams for having good business sense. As long as a player is a desired assest let the teams use them as they see fit. Once the player gets too old or injured to have a serious influence on the game let him walk for free, but not until then.

I love the European model of sports business. Each club is unique and not a part of a league. If the club under performs they get sent down to a lower division, "relegation". In Europe the clubs are different business units. In America the teams are franchises of the league and as such they cannot ever be removed from the league without a majority of owners agreeing. In America the league is the most important thing. In Europe the clubs are the most important thing.

It is funny that in the capitalist American society our sports leagues are run like socialist communities while in the more socialist Europe the sports leagues are run like capitalist entities.
 
2014-02-11 02:49:37 PM
Come on Moyes keep the same tactics. Please try to cross the ball to the BFG every time.

Come on you Gunners!
 
2014-02-11 02:54:24 PM
I hear that there's snow at the Hawthorns, just in time for their kickoff.
 
2014-02-11 02:55:12 PM

balfourk: The NFL actually hits teams with Salary Cap penalties if they trade away a player before the last year of his contract. Why this is done bogles my mind. Why would you penalize your teams for having good business sense.


Cut out quite a bit of your explanation to address this issue - the NFL doesn't hit teams with salary cap penalties.  What they do is allow a team to amortize a signing bonus across the remaining years of a contract.  If they trade the player, they have to account for that salary right away.  It's more a problem with teams giving giant signing bonuses than any sort of penalty.
 
2014-02-11 02:56:19 PM

balfourk: As an American I wish our major sports leagues would adopt this same practice


Um

American sports teams do this ALL OF THE TIME.
 
2014-02-11 03:01:25 PM

desertgeek: I hear that there's snow at the Hawthorns, just in time for their kickoff.


doesn't appear to be.
 
2014-02-11 03:05:07 PM

socalnewwaver: desertgeek: I hear that there's snow at the Hawthorns, just in time for their kickoff.

doesn't appear to be.


Maybe it was brief. Or the BBC lied to me.
 
2014-02-11 03:05:52 PM

desertgeek: I hear that there's snow at the Hawthorns, just in time for their kickoff.


Oh you mean "the graveyard of Chelsea coaches"?  That place?

Honestly, even if Mourinho lost today his position is safe...but he'd hate to lose an opportunity to maintain hold of the top spot with games v. Arsenal and Liverpool still in the distance.

balfourk:I love the European model of sports business. Each club is unique and not a part of a league. If the club under performs they get sent down to a lower division, "relegation". In Europe the clubs are different business units. In America the teams are franchises of the league and as such they cannot ever be removed from the league without a majority of owners agreeing. In America the league is the most important thing. In Europe the clubs are the most important thing.

I love the Bundesliga model even better, economically as well as on the field.
 
2014-02-11 03:07:51 PM

desertgeek: Maybe it was brief. Or the BBC lied to me.


probably the former. the beeb =/= the sun
 
2014-02-11 03:11:04 PM

MugzyBrown: balfourk: As an American I wish our major sports leagues would adopt this same practice

Um

American sports teams do this ALL OF THE TIME.


Well, it's explicitly not allowed in the NHL.  I can't think of a single player in the MLB, NFL, or NBA who has been traded for cash.  Although, looking over the list of trades in the MLB, it looks like it happens occasional with marginal players.
 
2014-02-11 03:16:01 PM

meanmutton: socalnewwaver: i found this one particularly amusing this morning...

[img.fark.net image 436x617]

As an American who enjoys watching soccer, I just can't understand how the whole transfer thing works. Why in the world would teams give away players simply for cash, particularly to another team they're playing against?


It comes down to the fact that football players are employees of the clubs and come under the same employment laws as everyone else. So they have a contract of employment for a number of years that has the salary, bonus and other things including how the contract can be made null (resignation, sacking and buyout clause). So if a club wants a player that is contracted to another club they have to compensate the club and player so both agree to dissolve the employment contract with the original club (or match the buyout clause). This is normally the listed transfer fee (that includes the money to the club and player) but sometimes a player is "traded" in lieu of money but the player being traded must agree to this.


Before the Bosman Ruling players were tied to clubs much more like the American system were even if a player was out of contract his club must agree to the transfer and get a fee.

Clubs also list players under contract as assets and most are Plc's so if a player wants to leave the accountants make the manager sell the player now to get more money rather than make him run out his contract and loose the transfer fee and have to pay him.
 
2014-02-11 03:16:32 PM
the baggies have looked pretty good so far. not a bad showing at all.
 
2014-02-11 03:27:06 PM

socalnewwaver: the baggies have looked pretty good so far. not a bad showing at all.


The Hawthorns: where Chelsea managers go to disappoint.
 
2014-02-11 03:29:02 PM
Might we reach halftime with zero goals, in four games?
 
2014-02-11 03:30:50 PM
The BBC online commentator is getting bored.
 
2014-02-11 03:34:42 PM

MNMarkPW: meanmutton: socalnewwaver: i found this one particularly amusing this morning...

[img.fark.net image 436x617]

As an American who enjoys watching soccer, I just can't understand how the whole transfer thing works. Why in the world would teams give away players simply for cash, particularly to another team they're playing against?

...
In terms of getting cash, that's just how the transfer market is set up. Sometimes you'll see teams attempt to actually trade players, but it rarely works. If you get cash, you can just go out and buy another player that fits your needs. Trading would require one of the guys on the other team actually fit your plans, and the team wants to get rid of him. With hundreds of top-flight teams around the world with players to choose from, you're better off taking the cash.


Pretty much this. Selling for cash avoids the need to find a match to trade for. Team A can sell to B, B sells to C, and C sells to Real Madrid. Chelsea used the money for Mata for two less-established younger players from two different clubs. And they in turn may have bought other players, or brought somebody up, or ... The cash lubricates the exchange mechanism.

To be honest I'm more confused by the American system of (for the most part) exchanging players. Often it seems that it's hard for teams to agree, and look how often elaborate three-way trades fall apart. Sometimes it seems like one team is just dumping salary, and getting almost nothing in return.

Perhaps one difference is that European soccer doesn't have the nearly as strict rules about squad size, or baseball's rules about how many times somebody can be sent down, so it's much more practical to buy a player now and sell one weeks later (or vice versa).
 
2014-02-11 03:41:20 PM
Somewhere in Sochi, Rebecca Lowe will wake up in the morning and see what has happened over the past hour and think "thank God I'm here instead of having to try and talk up that boredom."
 
2014-02-11 03:43:56 PM

czetie: MNMarkPW: meanmutton: socalnewwaver: i found this one particularly amusing this morning...

[img.fark.net image 436x617]

As an American who enjoys watching soccer, I just can't understand how the whole transfer thing works. Why in the world would teams give away players simply for cash, particularly to another team they're playing against?

...
In terms of getting cash, that's just how the transfer market is set up. Sometimes you'll see teams attempt to actually trade players, but it rarely works. If you get cash, you can just go out and buy another player that fits your needs. Trading would require one of the guys on the other team actually fit your plans, and the team wants to get rid of him. With hundreds of top-flight teams around the world with players to choose from, you're better off taking the cash.

Pretty much this. Selling for cash avoids the need to find a match to trade for. Team A can sell to B, B sells to C, and C sells to Real Madrid. Chelsea used the money for Mata for two less-established younger players from two different clubs. And they in turn may have bought other players, or brought somebody up, or ... The cash lubricates the exchange mechanism.

To be honest I'm more confused by the American system of (for the most part) exchanging players. Often it seems that it's hard for teams to agree, and look how often elaborate three-way trades fall apart. Sometimes it seems like one team is just dumping salary, and getting almost nothing in return.

Perhaps one difference is that European soccer doesn't have the nearly as strict rules about squad size, or baseball's rules about how many times somebody can be sent down, so it's much more practical to buy a player now and sell one weeks later (or vice versa).


And yet, perhaps the most famous trade in US sports history involved a player being exchanged for cash.
 
2014-02-11 03:48:13 PM
Jesus, right at the end of the half. FARK
 
2014-02-11 04:12:41 PM

Rwa2play: And yet, perhaps the most famous trade in US sports history involved a player being exchanged for cash.


Well, what player would want to have to live up to being the one who was traded for Ruth?

/And, as I'm sure you know, this is the exception not the rule.
 
2014-02-11 04:26:46 PM

czetie: Rwa2play: And yet, perhaps the most famous trade in US sports history involved a player being exchanged for cash.

Well, what player would want to have to live up to being the one who was traded for Ruth?

/And, as I'm sure you know, this is the exception not the rule.


Oh, sure; still, just image if the US had employed the European transfer system.  The Yanks (or the Dodgers) could buy anyone for straight cash like that.
 
2014-02-11 04:37:23 PM
West Brom just had three great chances to tie.  Or equalize.  Or equlaise.  Or move level on terms. Or pull one back.
 
2014-02-11 04:39:36 PM

AtariGod: West Brom just had three great chances to tie.  Or equalize.  Or equlaise.  Or move level on terms. Or pull one back.


Peg it back to all square?
 
2014-02-11 04:42:45 PM
luiz pulled a skrtel on that free kick.
 
2014-02-11 04:46:41 PM
BAGGIES!!
 
2014-02-11 04:46:50 PM
GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLL WORST BROM
 
2014-02-11 04:47:01 PM
Chelsea is so good at stalling.  Makes me sick actually.

YAY Baggies!
 
2014-02-11 04:47:23 PM
yes!  now hold on baggies
 
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