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(NPR)   Fresh fruits and veggies sell out in former fast-food-choked neighborhoods. Just kidding, people skip the salad and keep on gobbling Big Macs   (npr.org ) divider line
    More: Obvious, Big Macs, food deserts, Boyle Heights, fruits, salads, Tropical Medicine  
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6039 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 Feb 2014 at 12:17 AM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-02-11 12:02:58 AM  
But more than that, he says, many people, particularly in low-income food deserts, just aren't used to buying or preparing healthy meals

I think only in America will you find poor people who don't know how to cook.
 
2014-02-11 12:17:50 AM  

fusillade762: But more than that, he says, many people, particularly in low-income food deserts, just aren't used to buying or preparing healthy meals

I think only in America will you find poor people who don't know how to cook.


Nah, Britain and Canada too.
 
2014-02-11 12:19:35 AM  
Mah 'beetus has a fierce hunger
 
2014-02-11 12:19:54 AM  
So, the "food desert" is the progressives' version of the knockout game, right?
 
2014-02-11 12:20:54 AM  
White people spend a lot of time of worrying about poor people. It takes up a pretty significant portion of their day.
They feel guilty and sad that poor people shop at Wal*Mart instead of Whole Foods, that they vote Republican instead of Democratic, that they go to Community College/get a job instead of studying art at a University.
It is a poorly guarded secret that, deep down, white people believe if given money and education that all poor people would be EXACTLY like them. In fact, the only reason that poor people make the choices they do is because they have not been given the means to make the right choices and care about the right things.
A great way to make white people feel good is to tell them about situations where poor people changed how they were doing things because they were given the 'whiter' option. "Back in my old town, people used to shop at Wal*Mart and then this non-profit organization came in and set up a special farmers co-op so that we could buy more local produce, and within two weeks the Wal*Mart shut down and we elected our first Democratic representative in 40 years." White people will first ask which non-profit and are they hiring? After that, they will be filled with euphoria and will invite you to more parties to tell this story to their friends, so that they can feel great.
But it is ESSENTIAL that you reassert that poor people do not make decisions based on free will. That news could crush white people and their hope for the future.
 
2014-02-11 12:23:57 AM  

fusillade762: But more than that, he says, many people, particularly in low-income food deserts, just aren't used to buying or preparing healthy meals

I think only in America will you find poor people who don't know how to cook.


Its a testament to how well off America really is.
 
2014-02-11 12:25:15 AM  

shtychkn: fusillade762: But more than that, he says, many people, particularly in low-income food deserts, just aren't used to buying or preparing healthy meals

I think only in America will you find poor people who don't know how to cook.

Its a testament to how well off America really is.


more like a testament to how farked up our ag subsidies are
 
2014-02-11 12:26:11 AM  
There are at least more jobs now and easier access to food, healthy or not.  Maybe there's a little more security in this neighborhood now.

Also, get the kids at the school some ideas on fresh foods.  Hook 'em while they're young.

And there is a reason retail places look at same store sales rather than new store sales when making decisions.  You need an apples to apples comparisons.
 
2014-02-11 12:27:48 AM  

albuquerquehalsey: White people spend a lot of time of worrying about poor people. It takes up a pretty significant portion of their day.
They feel guilty and sad that poor people shop at Wal*Mart instead of Whole Foods, that they vote Republican instead of Democratic, that they go to Community College/get a job instead of studying art at a University.
It is a poorly guarded secret that, deep down, white people believe if given money and education that all poor people would be EXACTLY like them. In fact, the only reason that poor people make the choices they do is because they have not been given the means to make the right choices and care about the right things.
A great way to make white people feel good is to tell them about situations where poor people changed how they were doing things because they were given the 'whiter' option. "Back in my old town, people used to shop at Wal*Mart and then this non-profit organization came in and set up a special farmers co-op so that we could buy more local produce, and within two weeks the Wal*Mart shut down and we elected our first Democratic representative in 40 years." White people will first ask which non-profit and are they hiring? After that, they will be filled with euphoria and will invite you to more parties to tell this story to their friends, so that they can feel great.
But it is ESSENTIAL that you reassert that poor people do not make decisions based on free will. That news could crush white people and their hope for the future.


Hey man, I'd rather shop at Walmart than Whole Foods.  I can shop at the first Whole Foods built ever and the people there make me want to puke more than the people at the Walmart.  I farking hate this city sometimes.  The smug is oppressing sometimes.

It's a convenience thing.  If someone ran a drive through with decent food, maybe it'd take off.  But it'd cost too much.  Hell, I paid almost $8 for a combo burger meal at Jack in the Box.  Burger, fries, and drink.  I couldn't help myself, I went for just two tacos for $2, but there was a big picture of a burger and it said "bacon built right in!"  So, you understand I had to get it.

I'm fat inside.
 
2014-02-11 12:28:18 AM  
"Fast food is cheaper and easier to consume than healthy food." - Ric Romero
 
2014-02-11 12:28:28 AM  

shtychkn: fusillade762: But more than that, he says, many people, particularly in low-income food deserts, just aren't used to buying or preparing healthy meals

I think only in America will you find poor people who don't know how to cook.

Its a testament to how well off America really is.


Or that American corporations keep their food cheap by cutting corners however they can, while American wages stagnate and food prices continue to rise.  Not to mention that many poor people have to work more than one job, so they simply don't have the time or energy to prepare a meal.

"Poor people are fat" is on the same level as "Poor people have refrigerators". It's a convenient statistic that idiots like to use (without knowing the full context) so they feel better about their politicians shiatting on the poor.
 
2014-02-11 12:29:09 AM  
I've been seeing these "lets end food deserts" ads on TV quite a bit and I've been wondering where exactly are the grocery store that don't sell vegetables? I've been to stores in some pretty poor neighborhoods and I've never seen one that didn't. Even if their selection of fresh produce was limited, they always have frozen, which for most vegetables is just as healthy as fresh.

The problem isn't access to healthy food, it's getting people to change their habits. If you didn't grow up eating vegetables and healthy food then your not likely to do it as an adult.
 
2014-02-11 12:33:09 AM  
This just in, businesses don't survive in environments where people don't buy their goods.  Ric Romero on at 11.
 
2014-02-11 12:33:14 AM  
Here's a fun idea: Let's change the way the government subsidizes food so that a Big Mac costs $8 and 2,000 calories worth of salad costs $1.99
 
2014-02-11 12:36:51 AM  
Proof that poor people are poor by choice. If they aren't even motivated enough to practice proper nutrition then they really are to blame for their own circumstances.
 
2014-02-11 12:37:26 AM  

Notabunny: Here's a fun idea: Let's change the way the government subsidizes food so that a Big Mac costs $8 and 2,000 calories worth of salad costs $1.99


Or not... because MORE government is not the solution (especially when using tax dollars then usually do the opposite of what's intended)

Here's an example: let's drug test every welfare recipient!  Oh wait, never mind...that costs us more money in managing a drug testing program that the benefit we get from denying welfare...OOOPS.

Oh, wait..that's only applies when conservatives fail at government.
 
2014-02-11 12:37:47 AM  

Notabunny: Here's a fun idea: Let's change the way the government subsidizes food so that a Big Mac costs $8 and 2,000 calories worth of salad costs $1.99


Quoted and posted.
 
2014-02-11 12:38:13 AM  
meat0918:
Also, get the kids at the school some ideas on fresh foods.  Hook 'em while they're young.


wp-b.com  cdn.niketalk.com
 
2014-02-11 12:39:55 AM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: So, the "food desert" is the progressives' version of the knockout game, right?


Pretty much
 
2014-02-11 12:41:02 AM  

fusillade762: But more than that, he says, many people, particularly in low-income food deserts, just aren't used to buying or preparing healthy meals

I think only in America will you find poor people who don't know how to cook.


Truer, words never been spoken, etc,etc...I've seen it in Nashville.
 
2014-02-11 12:42:04 AM  
By my general experience, lower and middle income neighborhoods, especially Mexican and Asian ones, have some of the best produce and eats on the planet. Thing is, they generally don't put up high end stuff or things that are 'made' in the store that almost no one ever eats (grocery store or gas station sushi anyone?). You get the straight skinny, grab the stuff, and you make it. Much like many of those immigrants and first generationers that run that store in the first place.

Somehow, someway, alot of low income people here that have grown up in America, just by my experience, equate veggies with no flavor and essentially starving yourself to death. This is where McDonald's and WalMart come in, to, you know, 'better our neighborhoods'.

Curious if anyone else here has seen 'Food,Inc'.
 
2014-02-11 12:43:22 AM  

ReapTheChaos: I've been seeing these "lets end food deserts" ads on TV quite a bit and I've been wondering where exactly are the grocery store that don't sell vegetables? I've been to stores in some pretty poor neighborhoods and I've never seen one that didn't. Even if their selection of fresh produce was limited, they always have frozen, which for most vegetables is just as healthy as fresh.

The problem isn't access to healthy food, it's getting people to change their habits. If you didn't grow up eating vegetables and healthy food then your not likely to do it as an adult.


I know anecdotal evidence is flimsy, but I work in downtown Stockton, CA. and I'm willing to make a bet. Let's stand on the steps of City Hall, and I'll give you an hour to walk to a store and buy lettuce, carrots, potatoes, bananas, apples, a gallon of milk, and then walk back. I know that within 20 minutes you can get a payday loan and buy a fifth of Jack, but that's a different bet.
 
2014-02-11 12:44:07 AM  

blindpreacher: Proof that poor people are poor by choice. If they aren't even motivated enough to practice proper nutrition then they really are to blame for their own circumstances.


Thanks to our corporatist government and greedy, corner-cutting corporations, fast food prices are artificially low, while fresh food prices have risen. And since poor peoples' wages are so low (and many have to work multiple jobs just to keep a roof over their head), they simply can't afford the money OR time it takes to eat healthy.

But thanks for proving my "Idiots use obesity as a reason to justify their hatred for poor people" point.
 
2014-02-11 12:47:16 AM  

Notabunny: ReapTheChaos: I've been seeing these "lets end food deserts" ads on TV quite a bit and I've been wondering where exactly are the grocery store that don't sell vegetables? I've been to stores in some pretty poor neighborhoods and I've never seen one that didn't. Even if their selection of fresh produce was limited, they always have frozen, which for most vegetables is just as healthy as fresh.

The problem isn't access to healthy food, it's getting people to change their habits. If you didn't grow up eating vegetables and healthy food then your not likely to do it as an adult.

I know anecdotal evidence is flimsy, but I work in downtown Stockton, CA. and I'm willing to make a bet. Let's stand on the steps of City Hall, and I'll give you an hour to walk to a store and buy lettuce, carrots, potatoes, bananas, apples, a gallon of milk, and then walk back. I know that within 20 minutes you can get a payday loan and buy a fifth of Jack, but that's a different bet.


In downtown Chicago, you could get the apples, bananas, carrots and milk in less than ten minutes thanks to the wide selection of fresh food at Walgreens and 7-11. Could probably get eggs and a pre-made salad too.
 
2014-02-11 12:47:48 AM  

fusillade762: But more than that, he says, many people, particularly in low-income food deserts, just aren't used to buying or preparing healthy meals

I think only in America will you find poor people who don't know how to cook.


America is one of the few places that poor people have the luxury of not having to know how to cook.  In most of the world the destitute don't have a McDonalds, KFC, and Little Caesars around the block.  If they did, they'd probably develop eating habits very similar to the poor in the US - fast food places are exceptionally good at providing a lot of calories on the cheap.

Providing access to healthy food is an important step, but it has to be combined with education on how to prepare the stuff and why it's important to do so.  Cooking anything takes more time and effort than walking up to a counter and buying a fully prepared meal.   A single parent working two jobs while trying to raise a couple of kids doesn't have a lot of free time to play in the kitchen.

Added to that they may not even have the necessary pots, pans, utensils and pantry ingredients to turn raw foods into a tasty dinner.
 
2014-02-11 12:48:52 AM  

fusillade762: But more than that, he says, many people, particularly in low-income food deserts, just aren't used to buying or preparing healthy meals

I think only in America will you find poor people who don't know how to cook.


It's not a matter of know, it's a matter of when you work three jobs, you don't have time to shop or cook.

Also fast food places sell TINY salads for WAY TOO MUCH. If you really want people to be healthy, offer big, cheap salads with a lot of lettuce. A free apple with every value meal for 10 cents more. Y'know, shiat like that.
 
2014-02-11 12:50:11 AM  

Notabunny: ReapTheChaos: I've been seeing these "lets end food deserts" ads on TV quite a bit and I've been wondering where exactly are the grocery store that don't sell vegetables? I've been to stores in some pretty poor neighborhoods and I've never seen one that didn't. Even if their selection of fresh produce was limited, they always have frozen, which for most vegetables is just as healthy as fresh.

The problem isn't access to healthy food, it's getting people to change their habits. If you didn't grow up eating vegetables and healthy food then your not likely to do it as an adult.

I know anecdotal evidence is flimsy, but I work in downtown Stockton, CA. and I'm willing to make a bet. Let's stand on the steps of City Hall, and I'll give you an hour to walk to a store and buy lettuce, carrots, potatoes, bananas, apples, a gallon of milk, and then walk back. I know that within 20 minutes you can get a payday loan and buy a fifth of Jack, but that's a different bet.


They don't have a Caltrans in Stockton?
 
2014-02-11 12:51:24 AM  
When I know I have $50 to sustain myself I will spend it on broccoli.
 
2014-02-11 12:52:03 AM  

albuquerquehalsey: White people spend a lot of time of worrying about poor people. It takes up a pretty significant portion of their day.
They feel guilty and sad that poor people shop at Wal*Mart instead of Whole Foods, that they vote Republican instead of Democratic, that they go to Community College/get a job instead of studying art at a University.
It is a poorly guarded secret that, deep down, white people believe if given money and education that all poor people would be EXACTLY like them. In fact, the only reason that poor people make the choices they do is because they have not been given the means to make the right choices and care about the right things.
A great way to make white people feel good is to tell them about situations where poor people changed how they were doing things because they were given the 'whiter' option. "Back in my old town, people used to shop at Wal*Mart and then this non-profit organization came in and set up a special farmers co-op so that we could buy more local produce, and within two weeks the Wal*Mart shut down and we elected our first Democratic representative in 40 years." White people will first ask which non-profit and are they hiring? After that, they will be filled with euphoria and will invite you to more parties to tell this story to their friends, so that they can feel great.
But it is ESSENTIAL that you reassert that poor people do not make decisions based on free will. That news could crush white people and their hope for the future.


My white guilt suddenly makes even less sense.
 
2014-02-11 12:52:19 AM  

Notabunny: ReapTheChaos: I've been seeing these "lets end food deserts" ads on TV quite a bit and I've been wondering where exactly are the grocery store that don't sell vegetables? I've been to stores in some pretty poor neighborhoods and I've never seen one that didn't. Even if their selection of fresh produce was limited, they always have frozen, which for most vegetables is just as healthy as fresh.

The problem isn't access to healthy food, it's getting people to change their habits. If you didn't grow up eating vegetables and healthy food then your not likely to do it as an adult.

I know anecdotal evidence is flimsy, but I work in downtown Stockton, CA. and I'm willing to make a bet. Let's stand on the steps of City Hall, and I'll give you an hour to walk to a store and buy lettuce, carrots, potatoes, bananas, apples, a gallon of milk, and then walk back. I know that within 20 minutes you can get a payday loan and buy a fifth of Jack, but that's a different bet.


I live in a small city, about 168k, and from city hall I doubt there's a grocery store within a 30 minute walk either, probably closer to an hour walk one way. What's your point?
 
2014-02-11 12:52:49 AM  
Might have something to do with taste. Veggies are mostly blech, while meat and cheese and a deep fryer are tasty, tasty.

You'd have to rewire brains to make broccoli and cabbage taste as good as a cheeseburger. With bacon.

www.rawfoodlife.com
 
2014-02-11 12:53:02 AM  

doglover: fusillade762: But more than that, he says, many people, particularly in low-income food deserts, just aren't used to buying or preparing healthy meals

I think only in America will you find poor people who don't know how to cook.

It's not a matter of know, it's a matter of when you work three jobs, you don't have time to shop or cook.

Also fast food places sell TINY salads for WAY TOO MUCH. If you really want people to be healthy, offer big, cheap salads with a lot of lettuce. A free apple with every value meal for 10 cents more. Y'know, shiat like that.


Fast food places aren't in the business of making people healthy. You seem to be a bit confused regarding the basic operations purpose of a fast food restaurant.
 
2014-02-11 12:53:47 AM  

elysive: Notabunny: ReapTheChaos: I've been seeing these "lets end food deserts" ads on TV quite a bit and I've been wondering where exactly are the grocery store that don't sell vegetables? I've been to stores in some pretty poor neighborhoods and I've never seen one that didn't. Even if their selection of fresh produce was limited, they always have frozen, which for most vegetables is just as healthy as fresh.

The problem isn't access to healthy food, it's getting people to change their habits. If you didn't grow up eating vegetables and healthy food then your not likely to do it as an adult.

I know anecdotal evidence is flimsy, but I work in downtown Stockton, CA. and I'm willing to make a bet. Let's stand on the steps of City Hall, and I'll give you an hour to walk to a store and buy lettuce, carrots, potatoes, bananas, apples, a gallon of milk, and then walk back. I know that within 20 minutes you can get a payday loan and buy a fifth of Jack, but that's a different bet.

In downtown Chicago, you could get the apples, bananas, carrots and milk in less than ten minutes thanks to the wide selection of fresh food at Walgreens and 7-11. Could probably get eggs and a pre-made salad too.


At 7-11 a smallish salad is $4.  For that same $4 you could buy 4 big-ass microwave burritos at the same store, or 4 double cheeseburgers at McDonalds.

Crap food is just plain cheaper, and for those who are living in poverty, the math often doesn't add up.
 
2014-02-11 12:54:49 AM  

meat0918: Also, get the kids at the school some ideas on fresh foods.  Hook 'em while they're young.

i.dailymail.co.uk

 
2014-02-11 12:55:03 AM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Fast food places aren't in the business of making people healthy.


I can't smoke stogies in the maternity ward, even if one of the kids is allegedly mine, and you're tellin' me we can't pass a law where you have to provide apples to keep your vendor's license in city limits?
 
2014-02-11 12:56:20 AM  
Well, there's another reason poor people are fat, but you'd have to have been poor to know it.

Fat (as in grease), starch and sugar make you feel full and keep you going through the day, take the edge off your hunger, stop the kids from whining; but they don't do squat for your "nutritional" levels. When I was poor, I used to live for a week on half a gallon of ice cream--a couple spoonfuls in the morning would make me think I wasn't hungry until nearly noon. Throw in some caffeine and bread and I'd never eat anything else. Of course, I was tired and surly all the time, but I wasn't hungry. (I wasn't fat, but that was due to the meth)

So poor people eat a lot of starchy, greasy foods because it fills the stomach; sugar and caffeine (coffee, candy bars) give you the energy you need to keep going on such nutrient-poor fare); and all those empty calories make you fat unless you're a meth-head. Add some beer on the weekends to give you a reason to keep living. That's pretty much the poverty diet. Kids: Give 'em french fries and tater tots to fill their little tummies, washed down with plenty of sweet soda and you'll never hear a word out of them.

Of course, they're unhealthy and have oily hair and pasty complexions and bad teeth and rotten dispositions--but being poor and working two jobs or having four kids who need to eat SOMETHING forces you to do whatever you can to pay the bills. And starchy, greasy, sugary foods are it.
 
2014-02-11 12:56:28 AM  
FTA: To check that notion, he and colleagues from the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine recently residents of one low-income community in Philadelphia before and after the opening of a glistening new supermarket brimming with fresh produce.


I think I found the problem:

SilentStrider: "Fast food is cheaper and easier to consume than healthy food." - Ric Romero

 
2014-02-11 12:57:08 AM  

doglover: It's not a matter of know, it's a matter of when you work three jobs, you don't have time to shop or cook..


I believe that excuse as much as I believe the "I don't have time for exercise" excuse, spoken after telling me about last night's reality show du jour or trip to the pub. It really is cheaper to cook, so maybe the hypothetical person working three jobs could work fewer hours if he/she streamlined the family food budget.

When I lived on my own and ate out every day, my food budget matched my current household's food budget (multiple people, food cooked from scratch, fancy ingredients like fresh seafood).
 
2014-02-11 12:57:12 AM  

doglover: fusillade762: But more than that, he says, many people, particularly in low-income food deserts, just aren't used to buying or preparing healthy meals

I think only in America will you find poor people who don't know how to cook.

It's not a matter of know, it's a matter of when you work three jobs, you don't have time to shop or cook.

Also fast food places sell TINY salads for WAY TOO MUCH. If you really want people to be healthy, offer big, cheap salads with a lot of lettuce. A free apple with every value meal for 10 cents more. Y'know, shiat like that.


Well, lettuce (at least the iceberg lettuce commonly found in salads) doesn't have a lot of nutritional value.  A big cheap salad with spinach of assorted greens as the base, with a lot of tomatoes, onions, peppers, mushrooms, carrots, broccoli, etc on top is another story, but that's also more expensive.
 
2014-02-11 12:57:34 AM  
It's not money, it's education.

I try to provide my kids with fresh foods but when I'm out of money, I can only provide what I can.

HOWEVER, that is not McDonald's.  I keep rice and dried vegetables for emergencies (yeah, it's not delicious but it's survivable) and I never cook with a microwave.  There are foods we can get inexpensively and retrieve the benefits.

The dried veggie packs from those noodle bowls go great with rice, ground turkey and some frozen peas and carrots in a rice cooker.

Noodles without the flavor packs go great with the $5.00 breaded chicken breasts and frozen peas and carrots.

So many poor recipes I can share.  (Two kids, single dad, paying alimony but get no child support...)

Yeah, it's not fresh, but at least it's not McDonald's.
 
2014-02-11 12:58:57 AM  

fusillade762: But more than that, he says, many people, particularly in low-income food deserts, just aren't used to buying or preparing healthy meals

I think only in America will you find poor people who don't know how to cook.


We also need programs that reach out to these neighborhoods to teach people how to cook and eat better.
 
2014-02-11 12:59:41 AM  
It's all about priorities. People simply don't make a healthy lifestyle a priority. It's more fun and interesting to spend a couple hours a day reading Facebook (or your favourite "Fat Acceptance" blog) than it is to prepare healthy meals and get regular exercise. So when people say "I don't have time", what they usually mean is "it's a lower priority than Candy Crush Saga".
 
2014-02-11 01:00:24 AM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Notabunny: ReapTheChaos: I've been seeing these "lets end food deserts" ads on TV quite a bit and I've been wondering where exactly are the grocery store that don't sell vegetables? I've been to stores in some pretty poor neighborhoods and I've never seen one that didn't. Even if their selection of fresh produce was limited, they always have frozen, which for most vegetables is just as healthy as fresh.

The problem isn't access to healthy food, it's getting people to change their habits. If you didn't grow up eating vegetables and healthy food then your not likely to do it as an adult.

I know anecdotal evidence is flimsy, but I work in downtown Stockton, CA. and I'm willing to make a bet. Let's stand on the steps of City Hall, and I'll give you an hour to walk to a store and buy lettuce, carrots, potatoes, bananas, apples, a gallon of milk, and then walk back. I know that within 20 minutes you can get a payday loan and buy a fifth of Jack, but that's a different bet.

They don't have a Caltrans in Stockton?


One of the (many) interesting things about Stockton is that we are surrounded by some of the most fertile and productive farmland in the world. It's a lush and verdant wonderland of food and abundance. But many of Stockton's residents don't have access to fresh produce. They may walk past 5 liquor stores and 2 burger joints on the way to the check cashing place, but no store between Point A and Point B will offer the produce grown in a ring around the city.
 
2014-02-11 01:00:44 AM  

Notabunny: Here's a fun idea: Let's change the way the government subsidizes food so that a Big Mac costs $8 and 2,000 calories worth of salad costs $1.99


I'd be ok with fixing this.

www.pcrm.org

Full disclosure, my wife is very involved in food policy, and by extension I am because I help her with research and she is getting real tired of the elitist attitude she runs into towards our poorer part of town.

The general attitude from a few of these people is, um, not exactly good towards the lower class.  They want a Market of Choice (think Whole Foods) or some local independent organic grocer, we'd be happy with something far more basic and cheap, because we're realists, and know that there we need incentives to get one there, and the incentives for a high end grocer will be greater than for a lower end grocer.  There already would be a grocery store in one of our food deserts if the demand was there, and but it would still not be a Whole Foods.

In all likelihood I suspect what will end up there is one of the Walmart Neighborhood Market.

the801: meat0918:
Also, get the kids at the school some ideas on fresh foods.  Hook 'em while they're young.


[wp-b.com image 350x300]  [cdn.niketalk.com image 350x263]



Here is some of what my kids' school district serves from their Facebook page, and the menus are standardized across the district.

i.imgur.com
i.imgur.com
 
2014-02-11 01:01:05 AM  

albuquerquehalsey: White people spend a lot of time of worrying about poor people. It takes up a pretty significant portion of their day.
They feel guilty and sad that poor people shop at Wal*Mart instead of Whole Foods, that they vote Republican instead of Democratic, that they go to Community College/get a job instead of studying art at a University.
It is a poorly guarded secret that, deep down, white people believe if given money and education that all poor people would be EXACTLY like them. In fact, the only reason that poor people make the choices they do is because they have not been given the means to make the right choices and care about the right things.
A great way to make white people feel good is to tell them about situations where poor people changed how they were doing things because they were given the 'whiter' option. "Back in my old town, people used to shop at Wal*Mart and then this non-profit organization came in and set up a special farmers co-op so that we could buy more local produce, and within two weeks the Wal*Mart shut down and we elected our first Democratic representative in 40 years." White people will first ask which non-profit and are they hiring? After that, they will be filled with euphoria and will invite you to more parties to tell this story to their friends, so that they can feel great.
But it is ESSENTIAL that you reassert that poor people do not make decisions based on free will. That news could crush white people and their hope for the future.


You've truly never seen a food desert have you? Let's put it this way Walmarts are an hour or more away by bus being out in the 'burbs.
 
2014-02-11 01:01:14 AM  

Corvus: We also need programs that reach out to these neighborhoods to teach people how to cook and eat better.


Won't help.  The parents need to have some base intelligence.  I believe in extermination.

Then the less stupid can eat their corpses.

/Joking aside, why aren't you TF? I remember you always being TF.
 
2014-02-11 01:01:33 AM  

shtychkn: fusillade762: But more than that, he says, many people, particularly in low-income food deserts, just aren't used to buying or preparing healthy meals

I think only in America will you find poor people who don't know how to cook.

Its a testament to how well off America really is.


It's also a testament to how shiatty hours can be, especially for those that rely on public transport. I like to cook, but on days where I work "8 to 4" I find it very difficult (because I have a 2+ hour commute by city bus each way, and come home utterly exhausted at 6:30pm). Other days I work "6:30 to 4" but get to ride the company bus back, which means I actually get home at 4:30-5. If I plan it well I have leftovers, or I have an easy meal like sardines with salad. If I'm too tired and haven't been shopping? I eat out. Sucks but I will pay the money to keep myself fed and healthy.

Other people work even more than me, like people having two jobs. They eat where they can.

That said, there ARE options. Most people in America that eat badly do so mainly because they have no idea what healthy eating is. It actually can be as simple as getting a cold cut 6 inch with all the veggies from Subway instead of a Big Mac and fries (there are a LOT of Subways now, its as common as mcdonalds). It can mean getting unsweetened ice tea instead of a soft drink or sweet tea.

I could go on about this topic but I don't need to talk more about the obvious. I think most people on Fark are educated enough to understand basic nutrition. Many people, far more than the educated realize, have absolutely no concept of nutrition. Like, eating fruits and vegetables is a foreign concept level bad. Even when they DO cook, it's going to be something bad for them or missing basic nutrition, like rice with spam or mac and cheese.
 
2014-02-11 01:01:45 AM  

ramblinwreck: Notabunny: Here's a fun idea: Let's change the way the government subsidizes food so that a Big Mac costs $8 and 2,000 calories worth of salad costs $1.99

Or not... because MORE government is not the solution (especially when using tax dollars then usually do the opposite of what's intended)

Here's an example: let's drug test every welfare recipient!  Oh wait, never mind...that costs us more money in managing a drug testing program that the benefit we get from denying welfare...OOOPS.

Oh, wait..that's only applies when conservatives fail at government.


Never have I seen a more appropriate Fark handle.  You do understand that we're already spending money to make the corn, beef and wheat that went into the Big Mac cheaper?  He's suggesting shifting the existing subsidies to different, healthier foods.
 
2014-02-11 01:02:18 AM  

TuteTibiImperes: fast food places are exceptionally good at providing a lot of calories on the cheap.


When was the last time you paid attention to the price of fast food? That shiat is getting damned expensive. Most burger joints will keep their signature burger (Whopper Big Mac etc.) pretty cheap, but if you get one of the other meals you're blowing the majority of a 10 dollar bill. I wen't to Sonic last week and got a bacon cheese burger meal and a side of cheese sticks and it was $12. I can make a lot of food at home for $12.
 
2014-02-11 01:03:16 AM  

elysive: When I lived on my own and ate out every day, my food budget matched my current household's food budget


Glass houses, mac.
 
2014-02-11 01:04:41 AM  
When your life is shiat, sometimes you turn to things to make you feel better.

Sometimes people turn to drink, it helps them get by when their lives are crap.

Sometimes people turn to drugs, it helps them escape the reality that their lives are crap.

Sometimes people turn to food, it gives them something to look forward to when everything is shiat.

I don't know why when people talk about poverty and nutrition they don't bring up this last point. Do they just want to pretend that people aren't addicted to shiatty food? Are we going to pretend that shiatty food doesn't press all the buttons in our little monkey brains that make us want more of it? Are we going to ignore that when you're poor as fark, probably the only "treat" you can give yourself is junk food?

I really don't get why no one wants to talk about it. It's farking obvious. Being poor sucks.
 
2014-02-11 01:05:04 AM  

Corvus: fusillade762: But more than that, he says, many people, particularly in low-income food deserts, just aren't used to buying or preparing healthy meals

I think only in America will you find poor people who don't know how to cook.

We also need programs that reach out to these neighborhoods to teach people how to cook and eat better.


And how to get transportation to places that sell those foods that are long distance from where they live.

/Hint that is a food desert. No Aldi's or even a Piggly Wggly there.
 
2014-02-11 01:05:19 AM  

ReapTheChaos: TuteTibiImperes: fast food places are exceptionally good at providing a lot of calories on the cheap.

When was the last time you paid attention to the price of fast food? That shiat is getting damned expensive. Most burger joints will keep their signature burger (Whopper Big Mac etc.) pretty cheap, but if you get one of the other meals you're blowing the majority of a 10 dollar bill. I wen't to Sonic last week and got a bacon cheese burger meal and a side of cheese sticks and it was $12. I can make a lot of food at home for $12.


This. We stopped going to McDonalds because the cost to feed a family of 4 was fast approaching the cost of decent meals at a sit-down restaurant.
 
2014-02-11 01:05:23 AM  

doglover: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Fast food places aren't in the business of making people healthy.

I can't smoke stogies in the maternity ward, even if one of the kids is allegedly mine, and you're tellin' me we can't pass a law where you have to provide apples to keep your vendor's license in city limits?


Hey, if that was on a referendum I'd vote for it.

The sad truth is that until fresh green veggies are less expensive calorie for calorie than corn and grains coontil agribusiness subsidies are reserved) we aren't going to see much of a change.
 
2014-02-11 01:05:27 AM  

TuteTibiImperes: elysive: Notabunny: ReapTheChaos: I've been seeing these "lets end food deserts" ads on TV quite a bit and I've been wondering where exactly are the grocery store that don't sell vegetables? I've been to stores in some pretty poor neighborhoods and I've never seen one that didn't. Even if their selection of fresh produce was limited, they always have frozen, which for most vegetables is just as healthy as fresh.

The problem isn't access to healthy food, it's getting people to change their habits. If you didn't grow up eating vegetables and healthy food then your not likely to do it as an adult.

I know anecdotal evidence is flimsy, but I work in downtown Stockton, CA. and I'm willing to make a bet. Let's stand on the steps of City Hall, and I'll give you an hour to walk to a store and buy lettuce, carrots, potatoes, bananas, apples, a gallon of milk, and then walk back. I know that within 20 minutes you can get a payday loan and buy a fifth of Jack, but that's a different bet.

In downtown Chicago, you could get the apples, bananas, carrots and milk in less than ten minutes thanks to the wide selection of fresh food at Walgreens and 7-11. Could probably get eggs and a pre-made salad too.

At 7-11 a smallish salad is $4.  For that same $4 you could buy 4 big-ass microwave burritos at the same store, or 4 double cheeseburgers at McDonalds.

Crap food is just plain cheaper, and for those who are living in poverty, the math often doesn't add up.


I thought the OP was challenging the availability of fresh ingredients around city hall (zomg!) type inner cities. I listed salad as an afterthought 1) because they are spendy and I'd never buy it pre made at a convenience store or any store, and 2) I dont think it honestly satisfies the demand to purchase a head of lettuce. It is true you can get salads pretty much anywhere though along with pure, unadulturated produce like fruit. The fruit and baggies of carrots at those places arent so much more expensive than you would find at a grocery store (sans sale).

If people truly wanted to lose weight, reduce their caloric intake or access veggies, it's not necessarily an issue of accessibility. It's education, habit, resource allocation/setting priorities etc. All of this post is additionally pretending that the majority of poor people are restricted to buying their groceries at Walgreens or 7-11.
 
2014-02-11 01:06:28 AM  

WhoGAS: Two kids, single dad, paying alimony but get no child support...


Here's another social issue that could be tackled pretty damn easily.
 
2014-02-11 01:08:05 AM  
img.fark.net

So this is the guy running the program?

He's a picture of health isn't he?
 
2014-02-11 01:09:16 AM  

WhoGAS: It's not money, it's education.

I try to provide my kids with fresh foods but when I'm out of money, I can only provide what I can.

HOWEVER, that is not McDonald's.  I keep rice and dried vegetables for emergencies (yeah, it's not delicious but it's survivable) and I never cook with a microwave.  There are foods we can get inexpensively and retrieve the benefits.

The dried veggie packs from those noodle bowls go great with rice, ground turkey and some frozen peas and carrots in a rice cooker.

Noodles without the flavor packs go great with the $5.00 breaded chicken breasts and frozen peas and carrots.

So many poor recipes I can share.  (Two kids, single dad, paying alimony but get no child support...)

Yeah, it's not fresh, but at least it's not McDonald's.


I'll be honest, I was about to call you an asshole for not cooking with the microwave bit.  I'm a single dad too but nowhere near your level of suck.  shiat man... We should share recipes.  I'm guilty of the microwave chicken nuggets but man the boy went nuts for the rice and chicken vindaloo I made.  Frozen veggies go a long way, get some spinach and some spices and some of that rice paper stuff and make some southwest eggrolls.  Luckily the boy loves green beans straight outta the can.
 
2014-02-11 01:10:24 AM  
sam-kinison-move-to-where-the-food-is.jpg
 
2014-02-11 01:11:43 AM  

meat0918: Notabunny: Here's a fun idea: Let's change the way the government subsidizes food so that a Big Mac costs $8 and 2,000 calories worth of salad costs $1.99

I'd be ok with fixing this.


Thanks for your post. What would you and your wife think of using schools as food distribution and cooking education sites? The infrastructure is in place. The expense would be minimal. The benefits would be enormous.
 
2014-02-11 01:11:54 AM  

meat0918: fusillade762: But more than that, he says, many people, particularly in low-income food deserts, just aren't used to buying or preparing healthy meals

I think only in America will you find poor people who don't know how to cook.

Nah, Britain and Canada too.


Price inflation couples with wage stagnation. The poor, already Just Getting By, now can't afford basic groceries. Theft occurs because the kids gotta eat (see also: The Grapes of Wrath) and corporate supermarkets pull out. Urban "food deserts" are populated by oases of fast food restaurants. The poor find themselves in a new world detached from old, kitchen-based concepts of creating nutritional value and devoid of new guideposts in the fast food places. An entire generation later, a monumental effort by some legislators provides a feeble requirement of posting caloric values. Meaningless to the poor who are not provided with any educational context for healthy eating-- no, not even in the schools.

And then we're surprised or, sadly, smug, when the poor don't choose the chef salad over the Whopper.
 
2014-02-11 01:12:10 AM  

doglover: elysive: When I lived on my own and ate out every day, my food budget matched my current household's food budget

Glass houses, mac.


So, because I once ate out and wasted my money (and thats probably why I stayed poor), I cant point out that cooking is significantly cheaper?

Man, it kills me to think back to what I could have done with several extra hundred dollars in my pocket every month. The worst part is that is actually enjoy cooking.
 
2014-02-11 01:13:55 AM  
Supply side economics.  It isn't just for right wingers.

/also see bullet trains
 
2014-02-11 01:16:35 AM  

albuquerquehalsey: White people spend a lot of time of worrying about poor people. It takes up a pretty significant portion of their day.
They feel guilty and sad that poor people shop at Wal*Mart instead of Whole Foods, that they vote Republican instead of Democratic, that they go to Community College/get a job instead of studying art at a University.
It is a poorly guarded secret that, deep down, white people believe if given money and education that all poor people would be EXACTLY like them. In fact, the only reason that poor people make the choices they do is because they have not been given the means to make the right choices and care about the right things.
A great way to make white people feel good is to tell them about situations where poor people changed how they were doing things because they were given the 'whiter' option. "Back in my old town, people used to shop at Wal*Mart and then this non-profit organization came in and set up a special farmers co-op so that we could buy more local produce, and within two weeks the Wal*Mart shut down and we elected our first Democratic representative in 40 years." White people will first ask which non-profit and are they hiring? After that, they will be filled with euphoria and will invite you to more parties to tell this story to their friends, so that they can feel great.
But it is ESSENTIAL that you reassert that poor people do not make decisions based on free will. That news could crush white people and their hope for the future.


Where's that from? I want to know for the next time I need to buy cleverly-written manure for my garden.

/doesn't really have a garden
//better at caring for things that'll let me know if I forget to feed or water them
///slashies in threes, hold the peas
 
2014-02-11 01:17:36 AM  
Just wait until the poor start trying to eat the rich. Waddling fat people chasing shuffling old people - from a rooftop it'll look like a zombie movie played in reverse.

/Day of the Fed.
 
2014-02-11 01:18:14 AM  

Plant Rights Activist: shtychkn: fusillade762: But more than that, he says, many people, particularly in low-income food deserts, just aren't used to buying or preparing healthy meals

I think only in America will you find poor people who don't know how to cook.

Its a testament to how well off America really is.

more like a testament to how farked up our ag subsidies are


Which is the fault of those durn plants rights activists.

*glances at username*

Oh. How embarrassing.

/teasing!
 
2014-02-11 01:18:22 AM  

Notabunny: meat0918: Notabunny: Here's a fun idea: Let's change the way the government subsidizes food so that a Big Mac costs $8 and 2,000 calories worth of salad costs $1.99

I'd be ok with fixing this.

Thanks for your post. What would you and your wife think of using schools as food distribution and cooking education sites? The infrastructure is in place. The expense would be minimal. The benefits would be enormous.


They already are using our two of the Title I schools as food distribution sites. :)

That's a good idea on cooking ed sites.  I wonder if it is in the works actually.
 
2014-02-11 01:19:30 AM  

meat0918: Notabunny: meat0918: Notabunny: Here's a fun idea: Let's change the way the government subsidizes food so that a Big Mac costs $8 and 2,000 calories worth of salad costs $1.99

I'd be ok with fixing this.

Thanks for your post. What would you and your wife think of using schools as food distribution and cooking education sites? The infrastructure is in place. The expense would be minimal. The benefits would be enormous.

They already are using our two of the Title I schools as food distribution sites. :)

That's a good idea on cooking ed sites.  I wonder if it is in the works actually.


Clicked submit too fast.

It's from the food bank, and it's all fresh produce.  The country administers the program.
 
2014-02-11 01:19:33 AM  

White_Scarf_Syndrome: I'll be honest, I was about to call you an asshole for not cooking with the microwave bit.  I'm a single dad too but nowhere near your level of suck.  shiat man... We should share recipes.  I'm guilty of the microwave chicken nuggets but man the boy went nuts for the rice and chicken vindaloo I made.  Frozen veggies go a long way, get some spinach and some spices and some of that rice paper stuff and make some southwest eggrolls.  Luckily the boy loves green beans straight outta the can.


Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you're not a good parent if you didn't, I only use that as an example for people who whine about being single parents and not having time.

Wait, Southwest Eggrolls?  I haven't even thought about those.

You gotta email me...switch some recipes.

Oh, shiat.  Does this mean we're gay now?  Well, if we are, any hot women want to come join us?  You know, I doubt you can convert us while we're swapping recipes and crap, but I guess you can try.  Sheesh.
 
2014-02-11 01:20:03 AM  

Oldiron_79: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: So, the "food desert" is the progressives' version of the knockout game, right?

Pretty much


So you're saying progressives created food deserts to hurt people for fun and games? This analogy seems a bit awkward to me. Would you mind explaining?
 
2014-02-11 01:20:28 AM  

ReapTheChaos: TuteTibiImperes: fast food places are exceptionally good at providing a lot of calories on the cheap.

When was the last time you paid attention to the price of fast food? That shiat is getting damned expensive. Most burger joints will keep their signature burger (Whopper Big Mac etc.) pretty cheap, but if you get one of the other meals you're blowing the majority of a 10 dollar bill. I wen't to Sonic last week and got a bacon cheese burger meal and a side of cheese sticks and it was $12. I can make a lot of food at home for $12.


Most of the fast food places have a dollar menu that you could feed a family of four on for just over $10.
 
2014-02-11 01:21:45 AM  

Notabunny: Here's a fun idea: Let's change the way the government subsidizes food so that a Big Mac costs $8 and 2,000 calories worth of salad costs $1.99


Your newsletter. Do you take subscriptions?
 
2014-02-11 01:21:54 AM  
Up until now, I always read it as "food desserts" and had no idea what anyone was talking about.
 
2014-02-11 01:23:57 AM  

meat0918: meat0918: Notabunny: meat0918: Notabunny: Here's a fun idea: Let's change the way the government subsidizes food so that a Big Mac costs $8 and 2,000 calories worth of salad costs $1.99

I'd be ok with fixing this.

Thanks for your post. What would you and your wife think of using schools as food distribution and cooking education sites? The infrastructure is in place. The expense would be minimal. The benefits would be enormous.

They already are using our two of the Title I schools as food distribution sites. :)

That's a good idea on cooking ed sites.  I wonder if it is in the works actually.

Clicked submit too fast.

It's from the food bank, and it's all fresh produce.  The country administers the program.


Sounds like you guys have it going on! Have you reached out to other agencies and/or administrations to show them what you're doing?
 
2014-02-11 01:24:20 AM  

TuteTibiImperes: ReapTheChaos: TuteTibiImperes: fast food places are exceptionally good at providing a lot of calories on the cheap.

When was the last time you paid attention to the price of fast food? That shiat is getting damned expensive. Most burger joints will keep their signature burger (Whopper Big Mac etc.) pretty cheap, but if you get one of the other meals you're blowing the majority of a 10 dollar bill. I wen't to Sonic last week and got a bacon cheese burger meal and a side of cheese sticks and it was $12. I can make a lot of food at home for $12.

Most of the fast food places have a dollar menu that you could feed a family of four on for just over $10.


Very true.

Feed = feel well-fed, full tummy and non-complaining children. Nutrition optional.
 
2014-02-11 01:27:18 AM  

TuteTibiImperes: ReapTheChaos: TuteTibiImperes: fast food places are exceptionally good at providing a lot of calories on the cheap.

When was the last time you paid attention to the price of fast food? That shiat is getting damned expensive. Most burger joints will keep their signature burger (Whopper Big Mac etc.) pretty cheap, but if you get one of the other meals you're blowing the majority of a 10 dollar bill. I wen't to Sonic last week and got a bacon cheese burger meal and a side of cheese sticks and it was $12. I can make a lot of food at home for $12.

Most of the fast food places have a dollar menu that you could feed a family of four on for just over $10.


This doesn't explain the association between obesity and poverty. I don't care where you eat: you ain't gonna get fat by eating a single item off the dollar menu three times a day.
 
2014-02-11 01:28:37 AM  

ReapTheChaos: TuteTibiImperes: fast food places are exceptionally good at providing a lot of calories on the cheap.

When was the last time you paid attention to the price of fast food? That shiat is getting damned expensive. Most burger joints will keep their signature burger (Whopper Big Mac etc.) pretty cheap, but if you get one of the other meals you're blowing the majority of a 10 dollar bill. I wen't to Sonic last week and got a bacon cheese burger meal and a side of cheese sticks and it was $12. I can make a lot of food at home for $12.


Same here.  I don't know what the hell people are buying at the grocery store if "fast food is cheaper."

I made pasta bolognese the other night (with garlic bread and spinach salad), and it probably worked out to about $2.50 per person.  $3 if you count the wine (Naked Grape in a box).
 
2014-02-11 01:28:51 AM  

TuteTibiImperes: ReapTheChaos: TuteTibiImperes: fast food places are exceptionally good at providing a lot of calories on the cheap.

When was the last time you paid attention to the price of fast food? That shiat is getting damned expensive. Most burger joints will keep their signature burger (Whopper Big Mac etc.) pretty cheap, but if you get one of the other meals you're blowing the majority of a 10 dollar bill. I wen't to Sonic last week and got a bacon cheese burger meal and a side of cheese sticks and it was $12. I can make a lot of food at home for $12.

Most of the fast food places have a dollar menu that you could feed a family of four on for just over $10.


The only people I've ever seen ordering off the dollar menu are college students counting change from their ash tray after the bars close.
 
2014-02-11 01:30:34 AM  

elysive: so maybe the hypothetical person working three jobs could work fewer hours if he/she streamlined the family food budget.


Those kinds of minimum wage, unskilled labor type jobs generally don't allow people to set their own schedules as they see fit. It's usually more along the lines of, "These are the hours we need you for, either work them or we'll just find some other desperate person who will".
 
2014-02-11 01:30:55 AM  

elysive: Notabunny: ReapTheChaos: I've been seeing these "lets end food deserts" ads on TV quite a bit and I've been wondering where exactly are the grocery store that don't sell vegetables? I've been to stores in some pretty poor neighborhoods and I've never seen one that didn't. Even if their selection of fresh produce was limited, they always have frozen, which for most vegetables is just as healthy as fresh.

The problem isn't access to healthy food, it's getting people to change their habits. If you didn't grow up eating vegetables and healthy food then your not likely to do it as an adult.

I know anecdotal evidence is flimsy, but I work in downtown Stockton, CA. and I'm willing to make a bet. Let's stand on the steps of City Hall, and I'll give you an hour to walk to a store and buy lettuce, carrots, potatoes, bananas, apples, a gallon of milk, and then walk back. I know that within 20 minutes you can get a payday loan and buy a fifth of Jack, but that's a different bet.

In downtown Chicago, you could get the apples, bananas, carrots and milk in less than ten minutes thanks to the wide selection of fresh food at Walgreens and 7-11. Could probably get eggs and a pre-made salad too.


Not in Newark, NJ. Not in the western half of Baltimore, MD. Plenty of corner liquor stores in both, though. And in Baltimore, "Big Boyz Bail Bonds" pens are considered standard souvenirs for locals and tourists alike.
 
2014-02-11 01:31:59 AM  
since fresh fruit can only be traded of rotting vegetables this is no surprise.
 
2014-02-11 01:32:10 AM  

Sgt Otter: Same here. I don't know what the hell people are buying at the grocery store if "fast food is cheaper."


Where I live two carrots is one dollar.
 
2014-02-11 01:32:34 AM  
since fresh fruit can only be traded for rotting vegetables this is no surprise.
 
2014-02-11 01:34:26 AM  

doglover: Sgt Otter: Same here. I don't know what the hell people are buying at the grocery store if "fast food is cheaper."

Where I live two carrots is one dollar.


Where do you live???? Tokyo???
 
2014-02-11 01:35:24 AM  
I thought people where kidding when they compared the fark beta to the slashdot beta, I was wrong.
Ick

/this beta sucks go back to original Fark
 
2014-02-11 01:36:15 AM  

baconbeard: doglover: Sgt Otter: Same here. I don't know what the hell people are buying at the grocery store if "fast food is cheaper."

Where I live two carrots is one dollar.

Where do you live???? Tokyo???


Yeah.

But Matsuya has a bowl of beef and rice with a salad and raw egg for less than 500 yen ($5ish)
 
2014-02-11 01:36:45 AM  

TuteTibiImperes: fusillade762: But more than that, he says, many people, particularly in low-income food deserts, just aren't used to buying or preparing healthy meals

I think only in America will you find poor people who don't know how to cook.

America is one of the few places that poor people have the luxury of not having to know how to cook.  In most of the world the destitute don't have a McDonalds, KFC, and Little Caesars around the block.  If they did, they'd probably develop eating habits very similar to the poor in the US - fast food places are exceptionally good at providing a lot of calories on the cheap.

Providing access to healthy food is an important step, but it has to be combined with education on how to prepare the stuff and why it's important to do so.  Cooking anything takes more time and effort than walking up to a counter and buying a fully prepared meal.   A single parent working two jobs while trying to raise a couple of kids doesn't have a lot of free time to play in the kitchen.

Added to that they may not even have the necessary pots, pans, utensils and pantry ingredients to turn raw foods into a tasty dinner.


I agree with all your points but the first one. Not having to know how to cook is a luxury for the rich only. For the poor, it is a link in the chain of economic slavery. Dependence on fast food means that the poor can't demand time out to shop, cook, and eat a normal meal. It makes them available to work that second or third job that the insatiable economy demands.
 
2014-02-11 01:38:06 AM  

avanti: When I know I have $50 to sustain myself I will spend it on broccoli.


Potatoes might be better.

Or Guinness.
 
2014-02-11 01:38:57 AM  
"...but it has to be combined with education on how to prepare the stuff and why it's important to do so...."

So the urban peasant should be mandatory for all people ?
 
2014-02-11 01:39:08 AM  

doglover: Sgt Otter: Same here. I don't know what the hell people are buying at the grocery store if "fast food is cheaper."

Where I live two carrots is one dollar.


I haven't seen prices like that since Skyrim. One gold for a damn carrot?
 
2014-02-11 01:39:16 AM  

brimed03: Not having to know how to cook is a luxury for the rich only.


But living in an apartment with a kitchen is also a luxury.

I stopped cooking years ago because all I have is a single hot plat and a tiny sink. What the hell can I make without even space to cut the veggies?
 
2014-02-11 01:39:28 AM  

baconbeard: TuteTibiImperes: ReapTheChaos: TuteTibiImperes: fast food places are exceptionally good at providing a lot of calories on the cheap.

When was the last time you paid attention to the price of fast food? That shiat is getting damned expensive. Most burger joints will keep their signature burger (Whopper Big Mac etc.) pretty cheap, but if you get one of the other meals you're blowing the majority of a 10 dollar bill. I wen't to Sonic last week and got a bacon cheese burger meal and a side of cheese sticks and it was $12. I can make a lot of food at home for $12.

Most of the fast food places have a dollar menu that you could feed a family of four on for just over $10.

This doesn't explain the association between obesity and poverty. I don't care where you eat: you ain't gonna get fat by eating a single item off the dollar menu three times a day.


Ramen Noodles - 25 cents per pouch
3 liter generic soda - $1 (I've noticed that no-name grocery stores in poor areas often don't even carry diet soda, and if they do they only have a couple bottles)
Mac and Cheese - $1.29 for the generic family size
Big-ass bag of Generic chips - $2
Little Debbie snack cakes - $1.29
Banquet frozen dinners - 88 cents each
Crappy frozen pizzas - $1 each
Etc.

It's not just the fast food, even when you have access to a grocery store the stuff that's the worst for you is the cheapest.
 
2014-02-11 01:39:54 AM  

TwowheelinTim: Oldiron_79: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: So, the "food desert" is the progressives' version of the knockout game, right?

Pretty much

So you're saying progressives created food deserts to hurt people for fun and games? This analogy seems a bit awkward to me. Would you mind explaining?


Saying its about 99.99999999999999% made up bullshiat to make the"other side" look like monsters.
 
2014-02-11 01:40:04 AM  

Kraftwerk Orange: meat0918: Also, get the kids at the school some ideas on fresh foods.  Hook 'em while they're young.


You're my favorite in this thread.
 
2014-02-11 01:41:24 AM  

DocTravesty: You do understand that we're already spending money to make the corn, beef and wheat that went into the Big Mac cheaper? He's suggesting shifting the existing subsidies to different, healthier foods.


Most of the price of beef is really a reflection of the price of corn and wheat.

You can't make food cheap while making beef expensive. Short of murdering millions of cows and letting the carcasses fester. Last time we did that, you called it a genocide.
 
2014-02-11 01:42:18 AM  

doglover: baconbeard: doglover: Sgt Otter: Same here. I don't know what the hell people are buying at the grocery store if "fast food is cheaper."

Where I live two carrots is one dollar.

Where do you live???? Tokyo???

Yeah.

But Matsuya has a bowl of beef and rice with a salad and raw egg for less than 500 yen ($5ish)


I don't the the price of carrots in Tokyo are particularly relevant to this discussion. You can buy healthy food for reasonable prices in Tokyo supermarkets; perhaps not carrots (or melons), but seasonable vegetables, fish, etc.
 
2014-02-11 01:42:29 AM  

ReapTheChaos: doglover: Sgt Otter: Same here. I don't know what the hell people are buying at the grocery store if "fast food is cheaper."

Where I live two carrots is one dollar.

I haven't seen prices like that since Skyrim. One gold for a damn carrot?


126 for half a head of cabbage now. In the summers, it's cheaper.
 
2014-02-11 01:42:35 AM  
The reason why is that in fresh produce, you find a dead frog.

In fast food, they at least have the decency to finely grind up that dead frog so you won't have to see it staring back at you with it's dead eyes.
 
2014-02-11 01:43:03 AM  

Notabunny: Here's a fun idea: Let's change the way the government subsidizes food so that a Big Mac costs $8 and 2,000 calories worth of salad costs $1.99


That would take quite a bit of work. Leaves don't have a lot of calories. It's just the way it is.

No matter where you live, it's going to cost more to eat only fresh fruits and vegetables. My girlfriend recently lost some weight and is trying to keep it off by eating only fresh fruits and vegetables. It has pretty much doubled our grocery bill. We don't live in America, and we pretty much never bought any processed foods (other than pasta).

You could hand out the vegetables free of charge to some people and they won't eat them. The whole "food desert" thing is just a mirage for lib-tards to feel better about themselves for being fat.
 
2014-02-11 01:45:21 AM  

baconbeard: You can buy healthy food for reasonable prices in Tokyo supermarkets; perhaps not carrots (or melons), but seasonable vegetables, fish, etc.


Yeah, but factored into that reasonable price is the Japanese family unit.

Dad works at work, mom works at home. He makes the money, she spends it.

You need 48 hours in one 24 hour day to make the economics work out.

On your own, it's a push. All your meals come from fast food anyway because you're at work and that's all there is.
 
2014-02-11 01:46:00 AM  

elysive: doglover: It's not a matter of know, it's a matter of when you work three jobs, you don't have time to shop or cook..

I believe that excuse as much as I believe the "I don't have time for exercise" excuse, spoken after telling me about last night's reality show du jour or trip to the pub. It really is cheaper to cook, so maybe the hypothetical person working three jobs could work fewer hours if he/she streamlined the family food budget.

When I lived on my own and ate out every day, my food budget matched my current household's food budget (multiple people, food cooked from scratch, fancy ingredients like fresh seafood).


Wow. They should drill the depths of your smugness for oil.

Elysive, you know nothing.
 
2014-02-11 01:46:23 AM  

avanti: When I know I have $50 to sustain myself I will spend it on broccoli.


Good god, I'll never touch broccoli again! Had a bowl of some last month and I felt like I was going to die all that night. My body wanted to go to sleep so very badly, but it was trapped on the john, feeling every single one of those demonic little florets slowly and painfully rasping it's way throughout my intestinal tract.
 
2014-02-11 01:47:09 AM  

fusillade762: But more than that, he says, many people, particularly in low-income food deserts, just aren't used to buying or preparing healthy meals

I think only in America will you find poor people who don't know how to cook.


Yeah.  Food deserts exist because the stores sell what people buy.

ReapTheChaos: I've been seeing these "lets end food deserts" ads on TV quite a bit and I've been wondering where exactly are the grocery store that don't sell vegetables? I've been to stores in some pretty poor neighborhoods and I've never seen one that didn't. Even if their selection of fresh produce was limited, they always have frozen, which for most vegetables is just as healthy as fresh.

The problem isn't access to healthy food, it's getting people to change their habits. If you didn't grow up eating vegetables and healthy food then your not likely to do it as an adult.


Not only that, but we have found that we can get the best deals on produce in the poorer areas.  You have to look them over a bit more than in the more expensive places but generally we get a lot more for our $ that way.  (We aren't going into any bad areas to do this, just working-class areas with heavy food stamp use.)

ReapTheChaos: When was the last time you paid attention to the price of fast food? That shiat is getting damned expensive. Most burger joints will keep their signature burger (Whopper Big Mac etc.) pretty cheap, but if you get one of the other meals you're blowing the majority of a 10 dollar bill. I wen't to Sonic last week and got a bacon cheese burger meal and a side of cheese sticks and it was $12. I can make a lot of food at home for $12.


Agreed.  Some simpler stuff will be on the cheap menus but that's about it.
 
2014-02-11 01:47:19 AM  

doglover: baconbeard: You can buy healthy food for reasonable prices in Tokyo supermarkets; perhaps not carrots (or melons), but seasonable vegetables, fish, etc.

Yeah, but factored into that reasonable price is the Japanese family unit.

Dad works at work, mom works at home. He makes the money, she spends it.

You need 48 hours in one 24 hour day to make the economics work out.

On your own, it's a push. All your meals come from fast food anyway because you're at work and that's all there is.


OK, but none of those reasons are really related to poverty, which is what this thread is about.
 
2014-02-11 01:49:27 AM  

This text is now purple: DocTravesty: You do understand that we're already spending money to make the corn, beef and wheat that went into the Big Mac cheaper? He's suggesting shifting the existing subsidies to different, healthier foods.

Most of the price of beef is really a reflection of the price of corn and wheat.

You can't make food cheap while making beef expensive. Short of murdering millions of cows and letting the carcasses fester. Last time we did that, you called it a genocide.


Pretty sure that was shooting bison from rail cars and the gilded age so it would seem about right.

/the ultimate prey is next

//Long pig
 
2014-02-11 01:49:59 AM  

baconbeard: It's all about priorities. People simply don't make a healthy lifestyle a priority. It's more fun and interesting to spend a couple hours a day reading Facebook (or your favourite "Fat Acceptance" blog) than it is to prepare healthy meals and get regular exercise. So when people say "I don't have time", what they usually mean is "it's a lower priority than Candy Crush Saga".


You're thinking of Sally and Steve Suburban. TFA is about the *poor.*

If I'm wrong about that, see my response to elysive. Smug/oil/nothing.
 
2014-02-11 01:51:28 AM  

TV's Vinnie: The reason why is that in fresh produce, you find a dead frog.


Not really. I had a live frog in a bag of lettuce one time.
 
2014-02-11 01:52:03 AM  

elysive: Notabunny: ReapTheChaos: I know anecdotal evidence is flimsy, but I work in downtown Stockton, CA. and I'm willing to make a bet. Let's stand on the steps of City Hall, and I'll give you an hour to walk to a store and buy lettuce, carrots, potatoes, bananas, apples, a gallon of milk, and then walk back. I know that within 20 minutes you can get a payday loan and buy a fifth of Jack, but that's a different bet.

In downtown Chicago, you could get the apples, bananas, carrots and milk in less than ten minutes thanks to the wide selection of fresh food at Walgreens and 7-11. Could probably get eggs and a pre-made salad too.


Even ruling out Walgreens and 7-11, there are 7 major groceries within 15 minutes walking distance of Chicago City Hall -- two Jewels, a Graziano's, two Mariano's, and two Trader Joe's.
 
2014-02-11 01:52:33 AM  

Notabunny: meat0918: meat0918: Notabunny: meat0918: Notabunny: Here's a fun idea: Let's change the way the government subsidizes food so that a Big Mac costs $8 and 2,000 calories worth of salad costs $1.99

I'd be ok with fixing this.

Thanks for your post. What would you and your wife think of using schools as food distribution and cooking education sites? The infrastructure is in place. The expense would be minimal. The benefits would be enormous.

They already are using our two of the Title I schools as food distribution sites. :)

That's a good idea on cooking ed sites.  I wonder if it is in the works actually.

Clicked submit too fast.

It's from the food bank, and it's all fresh produce.  The country administers the program.

Sounds like you guys have it going on! Have you reached out to other agencies and/or administrations to show them what you're doing?


We can't take credit for that, but we're involved in other projects, and those that did do those programs are very proactive in showing others how to do this inexpensively.  I'm just manual labor at one.

We're lucky though, we have a lot of farms nearby, and even a new grain mill someone started because farmers didn't grow wheat in part because the cost of shipping the grain to the mills was too great.  The farmer's used to grow lawn grass seed until it became illegal to burn their fields after harvest (long story, we had serious air quality issues).  The school district gets most of its flour from the new mill

A lot of things have just been clicking lately in our city and county.  It's freaky.
 
2014-02-11 01:53:17 AM  

ReapTheChaos: I've been seeing these "lets end food deserts" ads on TV quite a bit and I've been wondering where exactly are the grocery store that don't sell vegetables? I've been to stores in some pretty poor neighborhoods and I've never seen one that didn't. Even if their selection of fresh produce was limited, they always have frozen, which for most vegetables is just as healthy as fresh.

The problem isn't access to healthy food, it's getting people to change their habits. If you didn't grow up eating vegetables and healthy food then your not likely to do it as an adult.


I have a feeling your idea of a poor neighborhood is one were everybody has 10 year old cars. Because if you had ever been to the poor areas that they are calling food deserts you would know that there aren't any grocery stores in the area. The places where people in those areas buy food are either the corner liquor store that has a section or two that has some grocery items, usually past or nearing expiration, or fast food places. People in these areas are limited because they don't have transportation to get to a real grocery store besides public transportation, and that could take them a few hours to get to the store and back.
 
2014-02-11 01:54:11 AM  

Oldiron_79: TwowheelinTim: Oldiron_79: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: So, the "food desert" is the progressives' version of the knockout game, right?

Pretty much

So you're saying progressives created food deserts to hurt people for fun and games? This analogy seems a bit awkward to me. Would you mind explaining?

Saying its about 99.99999999999999% made up bullshiat to make the"other side" look like monsters.


Your numbered statistic seems a bit extreme. Do you have any studies to back it up?
 
2014-02-11 01:55:02 AM  

baconbeard: OK, but none of those reasons are really related to poverty,


I would say those reasons are pretty much directly related to poverty. Ain't no women marryin' no poor nyugahz up in here. You gots to have to bank. Bank you can't get by cooking at home because A: No time. B: It's literally more expensive.
 
2014-02-11 01:55:48 AM  

proteus_b: Notabunny: Here's a fun idea: Let's change the way the government subsidizes food so that a Big Mac costs $8 and 2,000 calories worth of salad costs $1.99

That would take quite a bit of work. Leaves don't have a lot of calories. It's just the way it is.

No matter where you live, it's going to cost more to eat only fresh fruits and vegetables. My girlfriend recently lost some weight and is trying to keep it off by eating only fresh fruits and vegetables. It has pretty much doubled our grocery bill. We don't live in America, and we pretty much never bought any processed foods (other than pasta).

You could hand out the vegetables free of charge to some people and they won't eat them. The whole "food desert" thing is just a mirage for lib-tards to feel better about themselves for being fat.


I'm game, let's try. Let's provide free vegetarian breakfasts, lunches and dinners to all students and their families, and provide free take-home bags of fresh fruits and veggies. Let's utilize school cafeterias as food distribution and cooking education sites. Let's try it for 10 years or so, and see what happens.
 
2014-02-11 01:57:47 AM  

Notabunny: proteus_b: Notabunny: Here's a fun idea: Let's change the way the government subsidizes food so that a Big Mac costs $8 and 2,000 calories worth of salad costs $1.99

That would take quite a bit of work. Leaves don't have a lot of calories. It's just the way it is.

No matter where you live, it's going to cost more to eat only fresh fruits and vegetables. My girlfriend recently lost some weight and is trying to keep it off by eating only fresh fruits and vegetables. It has pretty much doubled our grocery bill. We don't live in America, and we pretty much never bought any processed foods (other than pasta).

You could hand out the vegetables free of charge to some people and they won't eat them. The whole "food desert" thing is just a mirage for lib-tards to feel better about themselves for being fat.

I'm game, let's try. Let's provide free vegetarian breakfasts, lunches and dinners to all students and their families, and provide free take-home bags of fresh fruits and veggies. Let's utilize school cafeterias as food distribution and cooking education sites. Let's try it for 10 years or so, and see what happens.


Sounds like a lot of work. What's in it for me?
 
2014-02-11 02:00:23 AM  

meat0918: We can't take credit for that, but we're involved in other projects, and those that did do those programs are very proactive in showing others how to do this inexpensively.  I'm just manual labor at one.


Every paddle in the water helps the boat move foreword. You two get credit.
 
2014-02-11 02:06:15 AM  

brimed03: elysive: doglover: It's not a matter of know, it's a matter of when you work three jobs, you don't have time to shop or cook..

I believe that excuse as much as I believe the "I don't have time for exercise" excuse, spoken after telling me about last night's reality show du jour or trip to the pub. It really is cheaper to cook, so maybe the hypothetical person working three jobs could work fewer hours if he/she streamlined the family food budget.

When I lived on my own and ate out every day, my food budget matched my current household's food budget (multiple people, food cooked from scratch, fancy ingredients like fresh seafood).

Wow. They should drill the depths of your smugness for oil.

Elysive, you know nothing.

I'm sorry you dont approve. Or wait, the opposite of that. I have nothing against poor people who dont cook or out of shape people who dont exercise. They probably are enmeshed in very difficult circumstances which make charges hard. I just dont buy the excuses (which may be valid explanations for a rare few, like those poor Americans living in food deserts in Japan, but are otherwise excuses). You help no one by enabling self defeating behaviors and delusional thinking.

If you truly believe these people cant cook (because of time or whatever other factors), then there's not much hope for poor people left in this topic. I guess they're just stuck eating what fast food restaurants choose to sell them on the cheap.
 
2014-02-11 02:07:36 AM  

brimed03: Notabunny: Here's a fun idea: Let's change the way the government subsidizes food so that a Big Mac costs $8 and 2,000 calories worth of salad costs $1.99

Your newsletter. Do you take subscriptions?


Apparently facebook loves this idea
 
2014-02-11 02:12:14 AM  

fusillade762: But more than that, he says, many people, particularly in low-income food deserts, just aren't used to buying or preparing healthy meals

I think only in America will you find poor people who don't know how to cook.


I agree. However there are plenty of poor people in America who know how to cook.

I've had the privilege of living and working all across the country. Consequently I've seen how poor Asian immigrants, poor Mexican immigrants, poor Korean graduate students, poor native Americans, poor white residents of Appalachia and the mid-west and poor black residents of inner cities live and eat. Call it stereotyping, but there are definite patterns associated with the various cultures when it comes to food and personal responsibility. To put it bluntly, poor urban black communities need to get their shiat together when it comes to health. Native Americans and white folks too, but especially the urban black communities.

That said, for many it doesn't matter what you subsidize. Some people are going to eat crap because that's what they want to eat.
 
2014-02-11 02:12:16 AM  

ongbok: I have a feeling your idea of a poor neighborhood is one were everybody has 10 year old cars. Because if you had ever been to the poor areas that they are calling food deserts you would know that there aren't any grocery stores in the area. The places where people in those areas buy food are either the corner liquor store that has a section or two that has some grocery items, usually past or nearing expiration, or fast food places. People in these areas are limited because they don't have transportation to get to a real grocery store besides public transportation, and that could take them a few hours to get to the store and back.


The oddest detail is that those same people will turn around a fight the installation of a grocery store.
 
2014-02-11 02:12:37 AM  

ReapTheChaos: TuteTibiImperes: ReapTheChaos: TuteTibiImperes: fast food places are exceptionally good at providing a lot of calories on the cheap.

When was the last time you paid attention to the price of fast food? That shiat is getting damned expensive. Most burger joints will keep their signature burger (Whopper Big Mac etc.) pretty cheap, but if you get one of the other meals you're blowing the majority of a 10 dollar bill. I wen't to Sonic last week and got a bacon cheese burger meal and a side of cheese sticks and it was $12. I can make a lot of food at home for $12.

Most of the fast food places have a dollar menu that you could feed a family of four on for just over $10.

The only people I've ever seen ordering off the dollar menu are college students counting change from their ash tray after the bars close.


And when did you last spend time in a fast food joint in a poor area? In a food desert? In, to be un-pc, the ghetto? Or is it more likely that the last time you found yourself in the ghetto, you locked the car doors and sped up a little to get out that much more quickly?

I have spent time in those places. Yeah, they're ordering from the dollar menu. And, sometimes, looking around to see if they can hit up anyone for change to round out the dollar.
 
2014-02-11 02:16:49 AM  

baconbeard: Notabunny: proteus_b: Notabunny: Here's a fun idea: Let's change the way the government subsidizes food so that a Big Mac costs $8 and 2,000 calories worth of salad costs $1.99

That would take quite a bit of work. Leaves don't have a lot of calories. It's just the way it is.

No matter where you live, it's going to cost more to eat only fresh fruits and vegetables. My girlfriend recently lost some weight and is trying to keep it off by eating only fresh fruits and vegetables. It has pretty much doubled our grocery bill. We don't live in America, and we pretty much never bought any processed foods (other than pasta).

You could hand out the vegetables free of charge to some people and they won't eat them. The whole "food desert" thing is just a mirage for lib-tards to feel better about themselves for being fat.

I'm game, let's try. Let's provide free vegetarian breakfasts, lunches and dinners to all students and their families, and provide free take-home bags of fresh fruits and veggies. Let's utilize school cafeterias as food distribution and cooking education sites. Let's try it for 10 years or so, and see what happens.

Sounds like a lot of work. What's in it for me?


Actually, I think the amount of work required will be minimal and inexpensive. But, I will bet a spinach and zucchini frittata breakfast, a lentil soup with a walnut and cranberry salad lunch, and a dinner of pasta with asparagus and prosciutto and some toasted focaccia with olive oil and pesto for dinner. All cheap. All easily prepared in a school cafeteria. And don't even get me started on the papas y rojas burritos con no pales and polenta. Mmm... mmm... good!
 
2014-02-11 02:17:17 AM  

TuteTibiImperes: If they did, they'd probably develop eating habits very similar to the poor in the US -

 fast food places are exceptionally good at providing a lot of calories on the cheap.

Granted, this is anecdotal, but in most countries I've been in outside of the USA and especially 2 of the 3 I've lived in (Morocco and currently Thailand), the price of fast food franchise food is often more expensive than the local street food, and the street food is usually much more nutritious and tasty. And, especially here in Thailand, the "dirt poor" are extremely poor, but the local food is usually cheap enough for people to afford reasonable healthy meals.

In places like here in Thailand and in Japan (where I've also lived), eating at places like MacDonald's was often more about being trendy than convenient or cheap.

Yeah, the super-impoverished nations and even many regions of developing nations don't have a MacD's around every other corner, but in my experience, at least some of the ones that do don't fit your generalization. Granted they are good at it in the States, but less so in other parts of the world, especially if they have to compete with local food prices already being extremely cheap just so many people can afford to eat.
 
2014-02-11 02:18:16 AM  

albatros183: "...but it has to be combined with education on how to prepare the stuff and why it's important to do so...."

So the urban peasant should be mandatory for all people ?


Fess up. Are you drinking? 'cause you're having a lot of problems with coherent posts.

/hey, it's Fark. Of course you're drinking.
 
2014-02-11 02:18:34 AM  

This text is now purple: ongbok: I have a feeling your idea of a poor neighborhood is one were everybody has 10 year old cars. Because if you had ever been to the poor areas that they are calling food deserts you would know that there aren't any grocery stores in the area. The places where people in those areas buy food are either the corner liquor store that has a section or two that has some grocery items, usually past or nearing expiration, or fast food places. People in these areas are limited because they don't have transportation to get to a real grocery store besides public transportation, and that could take them a few hours to get to the store and back.

The oddest detail is that those same people will turn around a fight the installation of a grocery store.


For decades in a lot of those areas you couldn't get the financing from a bank to open a grocery store in those neighborhoods, and the neighborhoods that wanted grocery stores couldn't get the big chains to open one there. In fact the in Chicago the only time I ever saw the local politicians and people fight the opening of a grocery store was when Walmart wanted to open a store. And that was because they didn't want the Walmart, they wanted a Jewel or Dominics food store instead.
 
2014-02-11 02:22:50 AM  

Notabunny: I will bet a spinach and zucchini frittata breakfast, a lentil soup with a walnut and cranberry salad lunch, and a dinner of pasta with asparagus and prosciutto and some toasted focaccia with olive oil and pesto for dinner. All cheap. All easily prepared in a school cafeteria.


Who is this for? And why a school cafeteria? And do I even have to ask why it's vegetarian? Chicken is a wonderful source of everything and cheaper than focaccciaccaia-whatever that is.
 
2014-02-11 02:22:54 AM  

doglover: brimed03: Not having to know how to cook is a luxury for the rich only.

But living in an apartment with a kitchen is also a luxury.

I stopped cooking years ago because all I have is a single hot plat and a tiny sink. What the hell can I make without even space to cut the veggies?


From what I've read about Tokyo, living in an apartment that is more than just a sleeping tube is a luxury.

/you could grow hydroponic hanging-plant tomatoes and eat them off the vine.
//for a limited time we'll send you not one but TWO hydroponic hanging plants for no additional cost!
 
2014-02-11 02:22:58 AM  

White_Scarf_Syndrome: I'll be honest, I was about to call you an asshole for not cooking with the microwave bit.  I'm a single dad too but nowhere near your level of suck.


My friend tells me you are insulting me with this comment.
 
2014-02-11 02:28:08 AM  

Oldiron_79: TwowheelinTim: Oldiron_79: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: So, the "food desert" is the progressives' version of the knockout game, right?

Pretty much

So you're saying progressives created food deserts to hurt people for fun and games? This analogy seems a bit awkward to me. Would you mind explaining?

Saying its about 99.99999999999999% made up bullshiat to make the"other side" look like monsters.


Still not following you.

What's made up? By whom? To make who look like monsters?

/are we having a tin-foil hat moment here?
 
2014-02-11 02:30:38 AM  

proteus_b: Notabunny: Here's a fun idea: Let's change the way the government subsidizes food so that a Big Mac costs $8 and 2,000 calories worth of salad costs $1.99

That would take quite a bit of work. Leaves don't have a lot of calories. It's just the way it is.

No matter where you live, it's going to cost more to eat only fresh fruits and vegetables. My girlfriend recently lost some weight and is trying to keep it off by eating only fresh fruits and vegetables. It has pretty much doubled our grocery bill. We don't live in America, and we pretty much never bought any processed foods (other than pasta).

You could hand out the vegetables free of charge to some people and they won't eat them. The whole "food desert" thing is just a mirage for lib-tards to feel better about themselves for being fat.


1/10
 
2014-02-11 02:35:40 AM  

proteus_b: TV's Vinnie: The reason why is that in fresh produce, you find a dead frog.

Not really. I had a live frog in a bag of lettuce one time.


So YOU'RE the one who stole my prototype Soft Terrarium (tm)!

/don't eat little McRibbit please
 
2014-02-11 02:38:36 AM  

doglover: baconbeard: OK, but none of those reasons are really related to poverty,

I would say those reasons are pretty much directly related to poverty. Ain't no women marryin' no poor nyugahz up in here. You gots to have to bank. Bank you can't get by cooking at home because A: No time. B: It's literally more expensive.


Well, let's be honest: your personality has a lot to do with it, too.
 
2014-02-11 02:40:25 AM  

doglover: Notabunny: I will bet a spinach and zucchini frittata breakfast, a lentil soup with a walnut and cranberry salad lunch, and a dinner of pasta with asparagus and prosciutto and some toasted focaccia with olive oil and pesto for dinner. All cheap. All easily prepared in a school cafeteria.

Who is this for? And why a school cafeteria? And do I even have to ask why it's vegetarian? Chicken is a wonderful source of everything and cheaper than focaccciaccaia-whatever that is.


Well, my bet was with baconbeard, the dishes are vegetarian because access to fresh produce was the point of the conversation, school cafeterias were chosen because the infrastructure is in place, and focaccia is a yummy bread made doubleplustasty when toasted with olive oil and pesto.
 
2014-02-11 02:42:33 AM  

brimed03: Well, let's be honest: your personality has a lot to do with it, too.


Not as much as you'd think.

Honest, I'm not half as godawful off fark.
 
2014-02-11 02:43:17 AM  

Clemkadidlefark: Might have something to do with taste. Veggies are mostly blech, while meat and cheese and a deep fryer are tasty, tasty.

You'd have to rewire brains to make broccoli and cabbage taste as good as a cheeseburger. With bacon.

[www.rawfoodlife.com image 360x262]


You have to know how to cook them right, in order to make vegetables more appealing.

You might even save some money by making a meal that uses little meat and more vegetables. The juices from the meat can serve to marinate greens, and make them just as good.

/Broccoli and onions are great for that
//Mushrooms too
///And actually, mushrooms can help use even less meat
 
2014-02-11 02:43:29 AM  

Notabunny: proteus_b: Notabunny: Here's a fun idea: Let's change the way the government subsidizes food so that a Big Mac costs $8 and 2,000 calories worth of salad costs $1.99

That would take quite a bit of work. Leaves don't have a lot of calories. It's just the way it is.

No matter where you live, it's going to cost more to eat only fresh fruits and vegetables. My girlfriend recently lost some weight and is trying to keep it off by eating only fresh fruits and vegetables. It has pretty much doubled our grocery bill. We don't live in America, and we pretty much never bought any processed foods (other than pasta).

You could hand out the vegetables free of charge to some people and they won't eat them. The whole "food desert" thing is just a mirage for lib-tards to feel better about themselves for being fat.

I'm game, let's try. Let's provide free vegetarian breakfasts, lunches and dinners to all students and their families, and provide free take-home bags of fresh fruits and veggies. Let's utilize school cafeterias as food distribution and cooking education sites. Let's try it for 10 years or so, and see what happens.


See, now that's just lib-tard talk right there.

/no sense arguing with the Extremist Brigade; just ignore them while they mutter their way into obsolesence.
//do they have to be completely vegetarian meals? thinkofthechildren.jpg!
///:) Slashies three and a smile for thee. Or, a smiley with a turban.
 
2014-02-11 02:47:28 AM  

albuquerquehalsey: White people spend a lot of time of worrying about poor people. It takes up a pretty significant portion of their day.
They feel guilty and sad that poor people shop at Wal*Mart instead of Whole Foods, that they vote Republican instead of Democratic, that they go to Community College/get a job instead of studying art at a University.
It is a poorly guarded secret that, deep down, white people believe if given money and education that all poor people would be EXACTLY like them. In fact, the only reason that poor people make the choices they do is because they have not been given the means to make the right choices and care about the right things.
A great way to make white people feel good is to tell them about situations where poor people changed how they were doing things because they were given the 'whiter' option. "Back in my old town, people used to shop at Wal*Mart and then this non-profit organization came in and set up a special farmers co-op so that we could buy more local produce, and within two weeks the Wal*Mart shut down and we elected our first Democratic representative in 40 years." White people will first ask which non-profit and are they hiring? After that, they will be filled with euphoria and will invite you to more parties to tell this story to their friends, so that they can feel great.
But it is ESSENTIAL that you reassert that poor people do not make decisions based on free will. That news could crush white people and their hope for the future.


That is either the most sublime troll argument to have born out of the depths of /b/, or is the most awful comment from the Storm Front forums.
 
2014-02-11 02:51:31 AM  

elysive: brimed03: elysive: doglover: It's not a matter of know, it's a matter of when you work three jobs, you don't have time to shop or cook..

I believe that excuse as much as I believe the "I don't have time for exercise" excuse, spoken after telling me about last night's reality show du jour or trip to the pub. It really is cheaper to cook, so maybe the hypothetical person working three jobs could work fewer hours if he/she streamlined the family food budget.

When I lived on my own and ate out every day, my food budget matched my current household's food budget (multiple people, food cooked from scratch, fancy ingredients like fresh seafood).

Wow. They should drill the depths of your smugness for oil.

Elysive, you know nothing.I'm sorry you dont approve. Or wait, the opposite of that. I have nothing against poor people who dont cook or out of shape people who dont exercise. They probably are enmeshed in very difficult circumstances which make charges hard. I just dont buy the excuses (which may be valid explanations for a rare few, like those poor Americans living in food deserts in Japan, but are otherwise excuses). You help no one by enabling self defeating behaviors and delusional thinking.

If you truly believe these people cant cook (because of time or whatever other factors), then there's not much hope for poor people left in this topic. I guess they're just stuck eating what fast food restaurants choose to sell them on the cheap.


Until very recently, and extending back for years, there was ONE food supermarket in the entire city of Newark, NJ.

ONE.

I should know, I shopped there semi-regularly. Thankfully, I had a car, because there were no train lines nearby. No car? You carried what you could on the bus. Assuming you had the time to take a bus from across the city.

I bet you smirked at your own cleverness when you wrote "those poor Americans living in food deserts in Japan."

You truly know nothing.
 
2014-02-11 02:52:37 AM  

Notabunny: Here's a fun idea: Let's change the way the government subsidizes food so that a Big Mac costs $8 and 2,000 calories worth of salad costs $1.99


I think 2000 calories of salad could kill a person.
 
2014-02-11 02:53:29 AM  

Kraftwerk Orange: brimed03: Notabunny: Here's a fun idea: Let's change the way the government subsidizes food so that a Big Mac costs $8 and 2,000 calories worth of salad costs $1.99

Your newsletter. Do you take subscriptions?

Apparently facebook loves this idea


It's the new "It'll be a great day when education is fully funded and the Pentagon has to hold a bake sale for a new B-52."
 
2014-02-11 02:54:10 AM  

baconbeard: Up until now, I always read it as "food desserts" and had no idea what anyone was talking about.


Quite an appropriate comment from someone whose username is BaconBeard.
 
2014-02-11 02:55:07 AM  

Notabunny: Well, my bet was with baconbeard, the dishes are vegetarian because access to fresh produce was the point of the conversation, school cafeterias were chosen because the infrastructure is in place, and focaccia is a yummy bread made doubleplustasty when toasted with olive oil and pesto.


Vegetarian is more expensive than just "with vegetables" school are not set up to double as soup kitchens, and many lawmakers oppose the free lunch philosophically, not just financially.

I think the best idea was to change the subsidies. We pay a TON to cattle people when really we shouldn't. We need more apples, carrots, and aspa- actually no. No asparagus. That shiat stinks.
 
2014-02-11 02:56:45 AM  

Enigmamf: Notabunny: Here's a fun idea: Let's change the way the government subsidizes food so that a Big Mac costs $8 and 2,000 calories worth of salad costs $1.99

I think 2000 calories of salad could kill a person.


I remember the time I ate waaaay too much split pea soup. I thought I'd never get out of the bathroom alive.
 
2014-02-11 02:57:55 AM  

This text is now purple: ongbok: I have a feeling your idea of a poor neighborhood is one were everybody has 10 year old cars. Because if you had ever been to the poor areas that they are calling food deserts you would know that there aren't any grocery stores in the area. The places where people in those areas buy food are either the corner liquor store that has a section or two that has some grocery items, usually past or nearing expiration, or fast food places. People in these areas are limited because they don't have transportation to get to a real grocery store besides public transportation, and that could take them a few hours to get to the store and back.

The oddest detail is that those same people will turn around a fight the installation of a grocery store.


Citation needed.

Seriously. I've lived by those areas and the residents were clamoring, crying for a supermarket.

/"those people?"
//teasing
///the all new iSlash
 
2014-02-11 02:58:31 AM  

doglover: Notabunny: Well, my bet was with baconbeard, the dishes are vegetarian because access to fresh produce was the point of the conversation, school cafeterias were chosen because the infrastructure is in place, and focaccia is a yummy bread made doubleplustasty when toasted with olive oil and pesto.

Vegetarian is more expensive than just "with vegetables" school are not set up to double as soup kitchens, and many lawmakers oppose the free lunch philosophically, not just financially.

I think the best idea was to change the subsidies. We pay a TON to cattle people when really we shouldn't. We need more apples, carrots, and aspa- actually no. No asparagus. That shiat stinks.


I'm pretty sure we're in agreement.
 
2014-02-11 03:02:01 AM  

Notabunny: doglover: Notabunny: Well, my bet was with baconbeard, the dishes are vegetarian because access to fresh produce was the point of the conversation, school cafeterias were chosen because the infrastructure is in place, and focaccia is a yummy bread made doubleplustasty when toasted with olive oil and pesto.

Vegetarian is more expensive than just "with vegetables" school are not set up to double as soup kitchens, and many lawmakers oppose the free lunch philosophically, not just financially.

I think the best idea was to change the subsidies. We pay a TON to cattle people when really we shouldn't. We need more apples, carrots, and aspa- actually no. No asparagus. That shiat stinks.

I'm pretty sure we're in agreement.


We are, but I just didn't know what pucuca- bread-sicks were.
 
2014-02-11 03:04:24 AM  

Notabunny: baconbeard: Notabunny: proteus_b: Notabunny: Here's a fun idea: Let's change the way the government subsidizes food so that a Big Mac costs $8 and 2,000 calories worth of salad costs $1.99

That would take quite a bit of work. Leaves don't have a lot of calories. It's just the way it is.

No matter where you live, it's going to cost more to eat only fresh fruits and vegetables. My girlfriend recently lost some weight and is trying to keep it off by eating only fresh fruits and vegetables. It has pretty much doubled our grocery bill. We don't live in America, and we pretty much never bought any processed foods (other than pasta).

You could hand out the vegetables free of charge to some people and they won't eat them. The whole "food desert" thing is just a mirage for lib-tards to feel better about themselves for being fat.

I'm game, let's try. Let's provide free vegetarian breakfasts, lunches and dinners to all students and their families, and provide free take-home bags of fresh fruits and veggies. Let's utilize school cafeterias as food distribution and cooking education sites. Let's try it for 10 years or so, and see what happens.

Sounds like a lot of work. What's in it for me?

Actually, I think the amount of work required will be minimal and inexpensive. But, I will bet a spinach and zucchini frittata breakfast, a lentil soup with a walnut and cranberry salad lunch, and a dinner of pasta with asparagus and prosciutto and some toasted focaccia with olive oil and pesto for dinner. All cheap. All easily prepared in a school cafeteria. And don't even get me started on the papas y rojas burritos con no pales and polenta. Mmm... mmm... good!


Gorrammit, stop trying to make me approve of vegetarianism with your delicious-sounding menus!

/Costco sells pounds of bacon in four-packs. Mmmmmmmm.
 
2014-02-11 03:09:47 AM  
Sorry salad

farm8.staticflickr.com
 
2014-02-11 03:11:22 AM  

mamoru: TuteTibiImperes: If they did, they'd probably develop eating habits very similar to the poor in the US - fast food places are exceptionally good at providing a lot of calories on the cheap.

Granted, this is anecdotal, but in most countries I've been in outside of the USA and especially 2 of the 3 I've lived in (Morocco and currently Thailand), the price of fast food franchise food is often more expensive than the local street food, and the street food is usually much more nutritious and tasty. And, especially here in Thailand, the "dirt poor" are extremely poor, but the local food is usually cheap enough for people to afford reasonable healthy meals.

In places like here in Thailand and in Japan (where I've also lived), eating at places like MacDonald's was often more about being trendy than convenient or cheap.

Yeah, the super-impoverished nations and even many regions of developing nations don't have a MacD's around every other corner, but in my experience, at least some of the ones that do don't fit your generalization. Granted they are good at it in the States, but less so in other parts of the world, especially if they have to compete with local food prices already being extremely cheap just so many people can afford to eat.


The food economies if those countries aren't massively imbalanced by government subsidies for a handful of powerful segments. Hence, fast food costs what it should.

Also, by the sound of it, the overall economies aren't so farked that people haven't the time to cook because they have to work three jobs.

Aaand: in a food desert, there's no such thing as "local food." No supermarkets, and no one's delivering to mom-and-pop restaurants in the ghetto... which is why mom-and-pop restaurants don't exist in the ghetto.
 
2014-02-11 03:15:11 AM  

doglover: Notabunny: I will bet a spinach and zucchini frittata breakfast, a lentil soup with a walnut and cranberry salad lunch, and a dinner of pasta with asparagus and prosciutto and some toasted focaccia with olive oil and pesto for dinner. All cheap. All easily prepared in a school cafeteria.

Who is this for? And why a school cafeteria? And do I even have to ask why it's vegetarian? Chicken is a wonderful source of everything and cheaper than focaccciaccaia-whatever that is.


LOL focaccia is a type of cheese. And as much as I'm teasing Notabunny about vegetarianism, if the point is to teach the kids about eating fruits and veggies instead of McChicken McNuggets, why not focus on fruits and vegetables.
 
2014-02-11 03:16:53 AM  
Ya know, until I was too poor to know if I was going to even eat I never gave serious thought to what I ate. I knew it was "bad" but I never cared.

After not eating for three days, I thought I might as well eat as healthy as I could, even if for only one meal. I LOVE healthy food now. Even if it doesn't titillates my taste buds like fast food all the time, I'm okay with that.

The coolest part is that its just brain programming keeping you eating that stuff. Like a drug addict needing more, harder and faster, fast food floods your senses and gives you what you want and crave. Get off the stuff and suddenly its way better than you remember, or its unbearably sweet/ salty/ etc. The brain is so awesome, huh?

Want to get healthy, truly want, and you'll make it. Im in the middle of a food desert and im poor, but ill be damned if i dont try.

Ill chalk the failure of healthy fast food options failing to both a fundamental misunderstanding of the human (as the free market is wont to do) or a meaningless attempt to look like you care.

/scrambled eggs and jowl bacon is healthy to me
//I need to go to bed so I can more quickly get to cooking
 
2014-02-11 03:18:32 AM  

doglover: brimed03: Well, let's be honest: your personality has a lot to do with it, too.

Not as much as you'd think.

Honest, I'm not half as godawful off fark.


Ditto. You should've read the rant I went into on reddit last night. Crikey I was an asshole.

/and yet it felt good, man
 
2014-02-11 03:20:39 AM  

brimed03: elysive: If you truly believe these people cant cook (because of time or whatever other factors), then there's not much hope for poor people left in this topic. I guess they're just stuck eating what fast food restaurants choose to sell them on the cheap.

Until very recently, and extending back for years, there was ONE food supermarket in the entire city of Newark, NJ.

ONE.

I should know, I shopped there semi-regularly. Thankfully, I had a car, because there were no train lines nearby. No car? You carried what you could on the bus. Assuming you had the time to take a bus from across the city.

I bet you smirked at your own cleverness when you wrote "those poor Americans living in food deserts in Japan."

You truly know nothing.


But what does that have to do with making time to cook? I'm sorry for your lack of supermarkets and I'm sorry I tried to make a quip about doglover (who may have never made any comments about making time to cook so it was probably off topic).

But back to the excuse in the OP where you seemed to have the problem...not making time. I've gleaned from your posts that apparently poor people dont have time or possessions with which to watch TV or check facebook. They arent normal people insofar that they like trivial things, recreate, relax or waste time. There's no free time to be had for poor people to reallocate to cooking and financial trade-offs arent an option (like quitting part time jobs or reducing overtime). Even though I've been under the poverty line (and poverty isnt rare, over half of all American households will experience poverty), I know nothing. Got it.

So do enlighten me based on these new assumptions. How will fixing food deserts like Newark by providing more supermarkets help poor people when they dont have time to cook?
I assumed by your name that you were a med student or doctor or something. Do you think that a person diagnosed with uncontrolled type 2 diabetes, when told to stop eating fast food, would just reply "I dont have time to cook" and that's the end of the conversation? The funny thing about major health problems is that people often find time, or seemingly create it out of thin air when they previously were adament about having none.
 
2014-02-11 03:21:59 AM  

Notabunny: I'm game, let's try. Let's provide free vegetarian breakfasts, lunches and dinners to all students and their families, and provide free take-home bags of fresh fruits and veggies. Let's utilize school cafeterias as food distribution and cooking education sites. Let's try it for 10 years or so, and see what happens.


Go ahead. But I'm not wealthy enough to pay taxes in the US, so that's on you.
 
2014-02-11 03:23:40 AM  
Poor people are desperate.  Desperate people make bad decisions and take bad risks.  Poor people make bad decisions and take bad risks.  In addition to all the reasons everyone else has stated, I'd add that after so many years with so few choices they probably have a lot of cases of candida overgrowth which causes you to crave more of the foods that cause the problem in the first place so once you're riding the fast food pony, it's hard to get off.
 
2014-02-11 03:23:41 AM  

Notabunny: doglover: Notabunny: Well, my bet was with baconbeard, the dishes are vegetarian because access to fresh produce was the point of the conversation, school cafeterias were chosen because the infrastructure is in place, and focaccia is a yummy bread made doubleplustasty when toasted with olive oil and pesto.

Vegetarian is more expensive than just "with vegetables" school are not set up to double as soup kitchens, and many lawmakers oppose the free lunch philosophically, not just financially.

I think the best idea was to change the subsidies. We pay a TON to cattle people when really we shouldn't. We need more apples, carrots, and aspa- actually no. No asparagus. That shiat stinks.

I'm pretty sure we're in agreement.


Not me. Now, my *dog*... I should never have switched her food. Good lord, the flatulence is endless and tear-inducing. And as for "that shiat stinks...." Buddy, you don't know the half of it.

/industrial poop bags please
 
2014-02-11 03:24:43 AM  

avanti: When I know I have $50 to sustain myself I will spend it on broccoli.


I'd rather starve.  Broccoli is the devil's vegetable.
 
2014-02-11 03:27:41 AM  

brimed03: doglover: Notabunny: I will bet a spinach and zucchini frittata breakfast, a lentil soup with a walnut and cranberry salad lunch, and a dinner of pasta with asparagus and prosciutto and some toasted focaccia with olive oil and pesto for dinner. All cheap. All easily prepared in a school cafeteria.

Who is this for? And why a school cafeteria? And do I even have to ask why it's vegetarian? Chicken is a wonderful source of everything and cheaper than focaccciaccaia-whatever that is.

LOL focaccia is a type of cheese. And as much as I'm teasing Notabunny about vegetarianism, if the point is to teach the kids about eating fruits and veggies instead of McChicken McNuggets, why not focus on fruits and vegetables.


Cheese? Where the hell did I come up with cheese? I've eaten focaccia, for farks sake. Get a small plate, put a little oil and fresh-cracked pepper, maybe a little rosemary, dip the bread in... Mmm. Not bacon, but still really good.

Bread? The hell, man....

/It's after 3am here, lemme alone
 
2014-02-11 03:28:44 AM  

LordJiro: shtychkn: fusillade762: But more than that, he says, many people, particularly in low-income food deserts, just aren't used to buying or preparing healthy meals

I think only in America will you find poor people who don't know how to cook.

Its a testament to how well off America really is.

Or that American corporations keep their food cheap by cutting corners however they can, while American wages stagnate and food prices continue to rise.  Not to mention that many poor people have to work more than one job, so they simply don't have the time or energy to prepare a meal.

"Poor people are fat" is on the same level as "Poor people have refrigerators". It's a convenient statistic that idiots like to use (without knowing the full context) so they feel better about their politicians shiatting on the poor.


I've been poor to the point that I was eating only because a friend found out I was going days at a time without anything more than ramen.  Yes, if you are fat you aren't farking poor.  If you have a roof over your head and enough food to be fat, you are a damn sight better than most the the world's population.  Hell, the people complaining about being poor also have a big screen tv and a car.  That isn't poor.
 
2014-02-11 03:45:15 AM  

OgreMagi: LordJiro: shtychkn: fusillade762: But more than that, he says, many people, particularly in low-income food deserts, just aren't used to buying or preparing healthy meals

I think only in America will you find poor people who don't know how to cook.

Its a testament to how well off America really is.

Or that American corporations keep their food cheap by cutting corners however they can, while American wages stagnate and food prices continue to rise.  Not to mention that many poor people have to work more than one job, so they simply don't have the time or energy to prepare a meal.

"Poor people are fat" is on the same level as "Poor people have refrigerators". It's a convenient statistic that idiots like to use (without knowing the full context) so they feel better about their politicians shiatting on the poor.

I've been poor to the point that I was eating only because a friend found out I was going days at a time without anything more than ramen.  Yes, if you are fat you aren't farking poor.  If you have a roof over your head and enough food to be fat, you are a damn sight better than most the the world's population.  Hell, the people complaining about being poor also have a big screen tv and a car.  That isn't poor.


Thank you for your moronic opinion.
 
2014-02-11 03:45:37 AM  

OgreMagi: Hell, the people complaining about being poor also have a big screen tv and a car. That isn't poor.


Who has a what now?
 
2014-02-11 03:50:07 AM  

doglover: OgreMagi: Hell, the people complaining about being poor also have a big screen tv and a car. That isn't poor.

Who has a what now?


They also have refrigerators too.
 
2014-02-11 04:02:24 AM  
I don't know why this comes as such a shock, given that plenty of middle class people with access to any amount of fresh food will often pass it up for junk.

This is how to do it: Prisons should target non-violent, first-time offenders and use the period of incarceration to train them to be community food leaders. Basic nutritional knowledge, cooking skills, food budgeting. Once they're released, they will work in their communities as educators. They get a second chance, some skills, and possibly some self-esteem, and their friends and family benefit.

Sadly, it doesn't look like there will be a shortage of new prisoners any time soon.
 
2014-02-11 04:17:12 AM  

Nogale: Prisons should target non-violent, first-time offenders


And this is what's wrong with America.

We're the only country on Earth that incarcerates non-violent, first time offenders.
 
2014-02-11 04:24:06 AM  

Notabunny: Here's a fun idea: Let's change the way the government subsidizes food so that a Big Mac costs $8 and 2,000 calories worth of salad costs $1.99


i232.photobucket.com
 
2014-02-11 04:36:51 AM  
Just to throw this out there.... but.... prosciutto is meat. So... yeah.
 
2014-02-11 04:37:03 AM  

elysive: brimed03: elysive: If you truly believe these people cant cook (because of time or whatever other factors), then there's not much hope for poor people left in this topic. I guess they're just stuck eating what fast food restaurants choose to sell them on the cheap.

Until very recently, and extending back for years, there was ONE food supermarket in the entire city of Newark, NJ.

ONE.

I should know, I shopped there semi-regularly. Thankfully, I had a car, because there were no train lines nearby. No car? You carried what you could on the bus. Assuming you had the time to take a bus from across the city.

I bet you smirked at your own cleverness when you wrote "those poor Americans living in food deserts in Japan."

You truly know nothing.

But what does that have to do with making time to cook? I'm sorry for your lack of supermarkets and I'm sorry I tried to make a quip about doglover (who may have never made any comments about making time to cook so it was probably off topic).

But back to the excuse in the OP where you seemed to have the problem...not making time. I've gleaned from your posts that apparently poor people dont have time or possessions with which to watch TV or check facebook. They arent normal people insofar that they like trivial things, recreate, relax or waste time. There's no free time to be had for poor people to reallocate to cooking and financial trade-offs arent an option (like quitting part time jobs or reducing overtime). Even though I've been under the poverty line (and poverty isnt rare, over half of all American households will experience poverty), I know nothing. Got it.

So do enlighten me based on these new assumptions. How will fixing food deserts like Newark by providing more supermarkets help poor people when they dont have time to cook?
I assumed by your name that you were a med student or doctor or something. Do you think that a person diagnosed with uncontrolled type 2 diabetes, when told to stop eating fast food, would just reply "I dont have time to cook" and that's the end of the conversation? The funny thing about major health problems is that people often find time, or seemingly create it out of thin air when they previously were adament about having none.


K, it's just past 3:30am here and not all the synapses are firing, but I'll give this a shot.

Yep, poor people have tv's. They also have refrigerators, as Fox news so helpfully pointed out a while back. Not as many as you think, however, have Facebook or, indeed, computers.

In fact, if I wasn't on mobile I'd link you to an article recently written by a Hopkins adjunct professor who lives in Baltimore public housing and is the only one he knows with a smart phone; as he puts it, his neighbors don't even know what a "selfie" is, much less have the ability to take one. See, in Baltimore, they beat you up or even kill you--we had 16 murders in the first two weeks of the year-- for your smart phone, because there are 12 automated kiosks in the state (including two in B'more itself) where you can turn them in for cash.

So now, maybe, you have a very slightly better notion of what it means to be urban poor, ghetto poor, and not merely "under the poverty line." There is a difference, and it is vast.

Ok, so your point was about time. Here's the thing: most of the poor in these areas are working two to three jobs just to feed the kids. Not nice jobs, either, and by "nice" I mean covered by Fair Labor laws. They're doing backbreaking per diem construction work starting at 6am. Whenever that ends, they take a bus home-- an hour or more, the Baltimore MTA isn't called "May Take Awhile" for nothing-- and grab a quick shower and change before taking the next bus--another hour-- to the next job... maybe washing dishes and being treated like shiat in the back of some restaurant where they can smell the food for 8 hours but will get fired if they eat any of it. When that ends, they might go home to catch five hours' sleep before starting over. The one good thing about the bus is that they can get a little extra sleep during that long ride-- although I wouldn't recommend it on most routes, particularly the infamous "Eight Ball."

His wife, of course, is at home minding the kids. Just kidding, she works as a cashier at the Dunkin Donuts-- we won't go into the gunpoint robberies she's endured-- and also cleans offices in the evenings.

They also have kids who, frankly, help raise each other. The grandparents help. The good folks in the neighborhood tries to keep an eye out.

And when they are home, exhausted and perpetually burned out, they might indulge in the luxury of watching a little mindless tv. Which you, apparently, would have them forgo in favor of cooking nice fresh meals. Except, of course, that the nearest supermarket is eight miles away. Another hour's trip, by bus. Each way. Remember, *the bus is not a car: it does not come when you want it to, and it does not stop only where you need it to.* And, yes, Might Take Awhile.

And no, they can't quit these jobs. They have rent to pay. Utilities. The kids need clothes and school supplies. Some kind of food has to be provided. And-- lol-- health insurance? Yeah. The ER bills have to get paid.

Is this every ghetto family's situation? Of course not. These are the lucky ones. Many of the others can't find jobs. So they have no money for jobs, no money for groceries. No home cookin' for them.

Eliminating the food deserts won't help all of them. The economic problem is so much more complex than that. But it is *one piece,* one very important piece. It's a vital healthy option for those with enough resources-- money to buy, additional family members to do the cooking.

No, the -med in my username isn't for a medical degree, so I'm not going to address your question there except in the list general way. Do you actuality know this person you're talking about? Is this someone both real and known to you? Or is this someone you "know" exists because... well, because. Did you ever question where you got this image from, much less bother to find out, before you accepted it, if it's valid?
 
2014-02-11 04:38:24 AM  

doglover: We're the only country on Earth that incarcerates non-violent, first time offenders.


Based on her name, she's probably not American.
 
2014-02-11 04:39:12 AM  

doglover: Notabunny: I will bet a spinach and zucchini frittata breakfast, a lentil soup with a walnut and cranberry salad lunch, and a dinner of pasta with asparagus and prosciutto and some toasted focaccia with olive oil and pesto for dinner. All cheap. All easily prepared in a school cafeteria.

Who is this for? And why a school cafeteria? And do I even have to ask why it's vegetarian? Chicken is a wonderful source of everything and cheaper than focaccciaccaia-whatever that is.


Not of iron, sadly. I'm being treated for anemia and for me a chicken meal might as well be vegetarian. Turkey is good.
 
2014-02-11 04:39:48 AM  

doglover: We're the only country on Earth that incarcerates non-violent, first time offenders.


And hey, if zero warnings isn't good enough for you....

/but honestly, three-strikes laws and so on all came about because too many multiple-time violent offenders were being released early...
 
2014-02-11 04:45:55 AM  

proteus_b: doglover: We're the only country on Earth that incarcerates non-violent, first time offenders.

Based on her name, she's probably not American.


Born in the US and lived there until age 18. How is that relevant?
 
2014-02-11 04:47:05 AM  

Nogale: Not of iron, sadly.


LOLWAT?

3.bp.blogspot.com

You're supposed to eat the liver.
 
2014-02-11 04:56:05 AM  

doglover: Nogale: Not of iron, sadly.

LOLWAT?

[3.bp.blogspot.com image 850x1086]

You're supposed to eat the liver.


Uh, no. Nope. No way. No liver for me, thank you very much.
 
2014-02-11 04:57:48 AM  

Nogale: Born in the US and lived there until age 18. How is that relevant?


Well, just meant in regards to incarceration rate.
 
2014-02-11 04:58:49 AM  

Nogale: Uh, no. Nope. No way. No liver for me, thank you very much.


Oh, I used to make that mistake too until my friend Tomer prepared pate' at my house.... and a fresh tomato jelly to serve it with.
 
2014-02-11 04:58:50 AM  

brimed03: This text is now purple: ongbok: I have a feeling your idea of a poor neighborhood is one were everybody has 10 year old cars. Because if you had ever been to the poor areas that they are calling food deserts you would know that there aren't any grocery stores in the area. The places where people in those areas buy food are either the corner liquor store that has a section or two that has some grocery items, usually past or nearing expiration, or fast food places. People in these areas are limited because they don't have transportation to get to a real grocery store besides public transportation, and that could take them a few hours to get to the store and back.


The oddest detail is that those same people will turn around a fight the installation of a grocery store.


Citation needed.


Seriously. I've lived by those areas and the residents were clamoring, crying for a supermarket.


/"those people?"
//teasing
///the all new iSlash



Citation -->  http://guardianlv.com/2014/02/trader-joes-denied-by-black-portland-co m munity/
 
2014-02-11 05:03:06 AM  

Nogale: doglover: Nogale: Not of iron, sadly.

LOLWAT?

[3.bp.blogspot.com image 850x1086]

You're supposed to eat the liver.

Uh, no. Nope. No way. No liver for me, thank you very much.


Can you see the liver in the picture?
No?
Then your mouth won't see it either.

Yakitori is like the best food on earth (except for you)

fark it, that's what the poor need: more yakitori joints.
 
2014-02-11 05:09:02 AM  

proteus_b: Nogale: Uh, no. Nope. No way. No liver for me, thank you very much.

Oh, I used to make that mistake too until my friend Tomer prepared pate' at my house.... and a fresh tomato jelly to serve it with.


Ah, now I understand how you knew I'm a woman. On Fark I am regularly assumed to be a male until I correct people.
 
2014-02-11 05:11:35 AM  

meat0918: Notabunny: Here's a fun idea: Let's change the way the government subsidizes food so that a Big Mac costs $8 and 2,000 calories worth of salad costs $1.99

I'd be ok with fixing this.

[www.pcrm.org image 500x356]

Full disclosure, my wife is very involved in food policy, and by extension I am because I help her with research and she is getting real tired of the elitist attitude she runs into towards our poorer part of town.

The general attitude from a few of these people is, um, not exactly good towards the lower class.  They want a Market of Choice (think Whole Foods) or some local independent organic grocer, we'd be happy with something far more basic and cheap, because we're realists, and know that there we need incentives to get one there, and the incentives for a high end grocer will be greater than for a lower end grocer.  There already would be a grocery store in one of our food deserts if the demand was there, and but it would still not be a Whole Foods.

In all likelihood I suspect what will end up there is one of the Walmart Neighborhood Market.

the801: meat0918:
Also, get the kids at the school some ideas on fresh foods.  Hook 'em while they're young.


[wp-b.com image 350x300]  [cdn.niketalk.com image 350x263]


Here is some of what my kids' school district serves from their Facebook page, and the menus are standardized across the district.

[i.imgur.com image 720x538]
[i.imgur.com image 405x720]


When we moved to the Gateway area about a year ago it was considered a food desert. The closest place resembling a grocery store at the time was Target, but their selection of fresh food & produce is not only limited, but tends to be spendy, especially to those like me who try to budget their food dollars wisely. A Walmart Neighborhood Market opened back in mid-September and while its selection isn't as good as Winco, it keeps me from having to ride to & from the store on the bus. I still shop at Winco, but have shaved that down to a once a month trip.
 
2014-02-11 05:13:29 AM  
But my point stands. A lot of people in the US go to prison who shouldn't; rather than turning them into lifelong criminals, why not give them the tools to make a difference in their own and other people's lives?
 
2014-02-11 05:37:32 AM  

Clemkadidlefark: Might have something to do with taste. Veggies are mostly blech, while meat and cheese and a deep fryer are tasty, tasty.

You'd have to rewire brains to make broccoli and cabbage taste as good as a cheeseburger. With bacon.

[www.rawfoodlife.com image 360x262]


This is the ultimate issue, our brains were designed to crave what was, in the past, the rarest and most difficult to come by foods. Since we are clever we've now made foods that consist of fat, sugar or salt common and easy to come by, and we find them just as delicious as ever.

Even if the cheeseburger with bacon cost more, it would still be the preferred choice by most consumers, simply because it tastes better.

Also I don't care about the inevitable weirdos who like to proclaim how much they like things like broccoli, they are in the minority. There is a reason there are plenty of places you can buy a burger or a pizza, but not a place to buy cooked broccoli.

Ignore the taste factor and you will change nothing.
 
2014-02-11 05:38:12 AM  

Nogale: But my point stands. A lot of people in the US go to prison who shouldn't; rather than turning them into lifelong criminals, why not give them the tools to make a difference in their own and other people's lives?


Because they shouldn't go to prison in the first place. That's a totally different set of problems than the food desert poor people problem, but part of the same philosophy that's killing the country.

Instead of trying to validate prisons or placing the onus on the victims, yes the victims, of our out of control legal system, we should be focusing on hanging prosecutors and police who abuse their powers and making sure that everyone in prison is someone who actually can't be more productive somewhere else. Pretty much prison should be rapists, murderers, and robbers awaiting execution. Everyone else could be horse whipped and set free that day with some gauze an a bin of ointment.
 
2014-02-11 06:05:17 AM  
Eating makes me sick.
i1.ytimg.com
 
2014-02-11 06:14:44 AM  

fusillade762: But more than that, he says, many people, particularly in low-income food deserts, just aren't used to buying or preparing healthy meals

I think only in America will you find poor people who don't know how to cook.


Over in 1.

/knows how to cook
//lived on rice and beans and for a year
///college of slashies
 
2014-02-11 06:16:02 AM  

OgreMagi: LordJiro: shtychkn: fusillade762: But more than that, he says, many people, particularly in low-income food deserts, just aren't used to buying or preparing healthy meals

I think only in America will you find poor people who don't know how to cook.

Its a testament to how well off America really is.

Or that American corporations keep their food cheap by cutting corners however they can, while American wages stagnate and food prices continue to rise.  Not to mention that many poor people have to work more than one job, so they simply don't have the time or energy to prepare a meal.

"Poor people are fat" is on the same level as "Poor people have refrigerators". It's a convenient statistic that idiots like to use (without knowing the full context) so they feel better about their politicians shiatting on the poor.

I've been poor to the point that I was eating only because a friend found out I was going days at a time without anything more than ramen.  Yes, if you are fat you aren't farking poor.  If you have a roof over your head and enough food to be fat, you are a damn sight better than most the the world's population.  Hell, the people complaining about being poor also have a big screen tv and a car.  That isn't poor.


cloudfront.mediamatters.org
 
2014-02-11 06:16:29 AM  

fusillade762: But more than that, he says, many people, particularly in low-income food deserts, just aren't used to buying or preparing healthy meals

I think only in America will you find poor people who don't know how to cook.


They know how to cook, for a given definition of 'cook', but yeah, our poor has some of the best access to pre-packaged food and the worst access to reasonably fresh staples.  Some of this is actually self-inflicted.

ramblinwreck: Here's an example: let's drug test every welfare recipient! Oh wait, never mind...that costs us more money in managing a drug testing program that the benefit we get from denying welfare...OOOPS.


Here's a question:  Do you lambast them for changing their mind when presented with new information, or congratulate them for not holding with a sinking ship?  I'm different than most - I respect somebody who changes their mind about a program/proposal when they're presented new information, as opposed to sticking their head in the sand and ignoring all evedence that their program isn't working.

baconbeard: This. We stopped going to McDonalds because the cost to feed a family of 4 was fast approaching the cost of decent meals at a sit-down restaurant.


In my area the only thing keeping 'fast food' cheaper than sit-down is the tip.
 
2014-02-11 06:21:00 AM  

shtychkn: fusillade762: But more than that, he says, many people, particularly in low-income food deserts, just aren't used to buying or preparing healthy meals

I think only in America will you find poor people who don't know how to cook.

Its a testament to how well off America really is.


There was a resruranteur in dc, I forget his name, who immigrated to the us from west africa. In an interview he fameously waid that he wanted to move somewhere that "poor people are fat".

this might be a first world problem, and id much rather have this one than mass starvation, but it's still a problem.
 
2014-02-11 06:37:44 AM  

brimed03: ReapTheChaos: TuteTibiImperes: ReapTheChaos: TuteTibiImperes: fast food places are exceptionally good at providing a lot of calories on the cheap.

When was the last time you paid attention to the price of fast food? That shiat is getting damned expensive. Most burger joints will keep their signature burger (Whopper Big Mac etc.) pretty cheap, but if you get one of the other meals you're blowing the majority of a 10 dollar bill. I wen't to Sonic last week and got a bacon cheese burger meal and a side of cheese sticks and it was $12. I can make a lot of food at home for $12.

Most of the fast food places have a dollar menu that you could feed a family of four on for just over $10.

The only people I've ever seen ordering off the dollar menu are college students counting change from their ash tray after the bars close.

And when did you last spend time in a fast food joint in a poor area? In a food desert? In, to be un-pc, the ghetto? Or is it more likely that the last time you found yourself in the ghetto, you locked the car doors and sped up a little to get out that much more quickly?

I have spent time in those places. Yeah, they're ordering from the dollar menu. And, sometimes, looking around to see if they can hit up anyone for change to round out the dollar.


I live in the "poor area" so pretty recently.
 
2014-02-11 06:49:56 AM  
there has been a lot of talk about this here. we have had a few grocery stores close in poor areas. all cite poor sales and high loss. its a demand problem.

we need to get education away from teaching to tests and start offering some real life stuff. teach home ec, shop, home finance etc and a lot of people would be better off.
 
2014-02-11 07:07:05 AM  
Liberals only understand deductive logic, which is the cause of this idea that increasing the supply of vegetables was the problem.

"People in some lower income neighborhoods have poor health and poor diets because they don't have access to groceries with vegetables"

When the question should be "How many have access and do they purchase vegetables when available?". To which the answer is "a lot" and "often not".

Liberals skip research that doesn't support their assumptions or might actually disprove them.
 
2014-02-11 07:16:18 AM  
 But only 26 percent said it was their regular "go to" market. And, as might be expected, those who lived close to the store shopped there most regularly.

uh...so like a shiatload of people in the area use the new supermarket?
 
2014-02-11 07:32:13 AM  
 
2014-02-11 07:35:02 AM  

albuquerquehalsey: White people spend a lot of time of worrying about poor people. It takes up a pretty significant portion of their day.
They feel guilty and sad that poor people shop at Wal*Mart instead of Whole Foods, that they vote Republican instead of Democratic, that they go to Community College/get a job instead of studying art at a University.
It is a poorly guarded secret that, deep down, white people believe if given money and education that all poor people would be EXACTLY like them. In fact, the only reason that poor people make the choices they do is because they have not been given the means to make the right choices and care about the right things.
A great way to make white people feel good is to tell them about situations where poor people changed how they were doing things because they were given the 'whiter' option. "Back in my old town, people used to shop at Wal*Mart and then this non-profit organization came in and set up a special farmers co-op so that we could buy more local produce, and within two weeks the Wal*Mart shut down and we elected our first Democratic representative in 40 years." White people will first ask which non-profit and are they hiring? After that, they will be filled with euphoria and will invite you to more parties to tell this story to their friends, so that they can feel great.
But it is ESSENTIAL that you reassert that poor people do not make decisions based on free will. That news could crush white people and their hope for the future.


I love it SOoo much when people tell me what I think and how I feel!
 
2014-02-11 07:44:02 AM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: So, the "food desert" is the progressives' version of the knockout game, right?


I see the right wing derposphere have been handed down new marching orders.  I have noticed on several other forums you idiots are now using progressive instead of liberal in your inane trolling.
 
2014-02-11 07:45:37 AM  
I do think it comes down to education.  I say that because I don't buy the 'not enough time' or 'it's too expensive' arguments for cooking healthy at home.  With a crock pot you can take 10 minutes in the morning putting together a lentil soup and you've got a great start to a meal that will last all week.  A whole chicken usually costs about $1.30/pound and again, to you can cook it all day in the crock pot.  Kale is nutrient rich, delicious and dirt cheap.  It really does take no time to make a salad.  Oatmeal (the stuff out of a cardboard tube, not an instant envelope) costs close to nothing and, since most of its preparation time is waiting for it to steep, takes no time to prepare.

People at work who eat out every day spend a minimum of $5.00 on lunch.  A breakfast meal at McDonald's costs about $4.00.  Making my own breakfast and lunch probably costs close to $3.00 for both meals.

It isn't about time or money.  The people just need to learn how to cook.
 
2014-02-11 07:54:56 AM  

albatros183: since fresh fruit can only be traded of rotting vegetables this is no surprise.


What language was this communication intended to be transmitted in?
 
2014-02-11 07:59:39 AM  

TV's Vinnie: The reason why is that in fresh produce, you find a dead frog.

In fast food, they at least have the decency to finely grind up that dead frog so you won't have to see it staring back at you with it's dead eyes.


Naked Lunch.
 
2014-02-11 08:02:29 AM  
Wow, it's almost as if the proprietors of these stores weren't selling these things before because no one wanted to buy them, and they wanted to make money and thus kept selling what people wanted to buy. Was the food-advocate's premise seriously that everyone desperately wanted to eat vegetables but they couldn't because for mysterious reasons everyone who opened a business around them was too stupid to figure out how to sell them vegetables? Really?
 
2014-02-11 08:05:19 AM  
Answer is simple. Just pass more laws that take away individual choice.

Force a menu at gunpoint.
 
2014-02-11 08:11:19 AM  
OH MY GOD, PEOPLE!

MOVE TO WHERE THE SALAD IS!!!!
 
2014-02-11 08:12:42 AM  

ambercat: Wow, it's almost as if the proprietors of these stores weren't selling these things before because no one wanted to buy them, and they wanted to make money and thus kept selling what people wanted to buy. Was the food-advocate's premise seriously that everyone desperately wanted to eat vegetables but they couldn't because for mysterious reasons everyone who opened a business around them was too stupid to figure out how to sell them vegetables? Really?


people seem to be forgetting that 26% of a neighborhood in a large city can be thousands and thousands of people. If the results of the study where framed in a way that just said a new supermarket opened so in this area X thousand of people are now buying fresh veg versus before it would sound like a success. .
 
2014-02-11 08:13:45 AM  

elysive: So do enlighten me based on these new assumptions. How will fixing food deserts like Newark by providing more supermarkets help poor people when they dont have time to cook?


I disagree with your thesis that people don't have time to cook.  It takes 10 minutes to fill a crock-pot with good eats. If you let it run all day you have 8 wonderful meals waiting for you when you come home.  The cost of filling a crock-pot is less than $10.

You can buy a 20 pound bag of rice at Costco for about $25.  A serving of rice costs about 50 cents.  Rice takes about 45 minutes to cook about only requires about 2 minutes of your attention since the rest of the time is spent waiting for it to steep.

You can make hundreds of wonderfully delicious, healthy and inexpensive meals with a crock pot.  It take less time out of your day to prepare than it does to pack up the family and drive to a fast food restaurant.
 
2014-02-11 08:16:24 AM  

brimed03: doglover: Notabunny: I will bet a spinach and zucchini frittata breakfast, a lentil soup with a walnut and cranberry salad lunch, and a dinner of pasta with asparagus and prosciutto and some toasted focaccia with olive oil and pesto for dinner. All cheap. All easily prepared in a school cafeteria.

Who is this for? And why a school cafeteria? And do I even have to ask why it's vegetarian? Chicken is a wonderful source of everything and cheaper than focaccciaccaia-whatever that is.

LOL focaccia is a type of cheese. And as much as I'm teasing Notabunny about vegetarianism, if the point is to teach the kids about eating fruits and veggies instead of McChicken McNuggets, why not focus on fruits and vegetables.


I would be willing to start with meat prepared in a halfway decent fashion, with some veggies and fruit thrown in.  Baby steps, folks.  There is an awful lot of inertia here.  The terrible food habits didn't develop overnight, and they aren't going to vanish overnight.
 
2014-02-11 08:26:12 AM  

blindpreacher: Proof that poor people are poor by choice. If they aren't even motivated enough to practice proper nutrition then they really are to blame for their own circumstances.


http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/hasty-generalization.html
 
2014-02-11 08:26:21 AM  

fireclown: brimed03: doglover: Notabunny: I will bet a spinach and zucchini frittata breakfast, a lentil soup with a walnut and cranberry salad lunch, and a dinner of pasta with asparagus and prosciutto and some toasted focaccia with olive oil and pesto for dinner. All cheap. All easily prepared in a school cafeteria.

Who is this for? And why a school cafeteria? And do I even have to ask why it's vegetarian? Chicken is a wonderful source of everything and cheaper than focaccciaccaia-whatever that is.

LOL focaccia is a type of cheese. And as much as I'm teasing Notabunny about vegetarianism, if the point is to teach the kids about eating fruits and veggies instead of McChicken McNuggets, why not focus on fruits and vegetables.

I would be willing to start with meat prepared in a halfway decent fashion, with some veggies and fruit thrown in.  Baby steps, folks.  There is an awful lot of inertia here.  The terrible food habits didn't develop overnight, and they aren't going to vanish overnight.


Skip the meat; it's expensive and unhealthy anyway.
 
2014-02-11 08:27:25 AM  

Oldiron_79: TwowheelinTim: Oldiron_79: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: So, the "food desert" is the progressives' version of the knockout game, right?

Pretty much

So you're saying progressives created food deserts to hurt people for fun and games? This analogy seems a bit awkward to me. Would you mind explaining?

Saying its about 99.99999999999999% made up bullshiat to make the"other side" look like monsters.


This
 
2014-02-11 08:38:26 AM  

Muta: I do think it comes down to education. I say that because I don't buy the 'not enough time' or 'it's too expensive' arguments for cooking healthy at home. With a crock pot you can take 10 minutes in the morning putting together a lentil soup and you've got a great start to a meal that will last all week. A whole chicken usually costs about $1.30/pound and again, to you can cook it all day in the crock pot. Kale is nutrient rich, delicious and dirt cheap. It really does take no time to make a salad. Oatmeal (the stuff out of a cardboard tube, not an instant envelope) costs close to nothing and, since most of its preparation time is waiting for it to steep, takes no time to prepare.


Salads aren't a good option if youare broke.

While crockpot and oatmeal are cheap, the prep takes planning. Something that is tougher to do when you are poor and stressed.

brimed03: Until very recently, and extending back for years, there was ONE food supermarket in the entire city of Newark, NJ.

ONE.

I should know, I shopped there semi-regularly. Thankfully, I had a car, because there were no train lines nearby. No car? You carried what you could on the bus. Assuming you had the time to take a bus from across the city.

I bet you smirked at your own cleverness when you wrote "those poor Americans living in food deserts in Japan."

You truly know nothing


elysive would have loved that. he could have ran to the grocery store to get in his workout, between his three jobs and cooking all meals from scratch.
 
2014-02-11 08:41:31 AM  
Over 50 years later and people still can't figure out why fast food works.
 
2014-02-11 09:00:31 AM  
I got a salad at McDonalds when they first came out.  It was stale.  How can a salad be stale?  I'm not sure, but it was.  It was kind of dried out and semi crisp at the same time.  I don't use salad dressing, so it wasn't like I could wash it down on a tide of ranch dressing.  Never again.

About once every few months, I'll get a single cheeseburger with no onions.  It's my guilty pleasure, like a little bundle of meaty cheesy salt.
 
2014-02-11 09:00:53 AM  

MemeSlave: fireclown: brimed03: doglover: Notabunny: I will bet a spinach and zucchini frittata breakfast, a lentil soup with a walnut and cranberry salad lunch, and a dinner of pasta with asparagus and prosciutto and some toasted focaccia with olive oil and pesto for dinner. All cheap. All easily prepared in a school cafeteria.

Who is this for? And why a school cafeteria? And do I even have to ask why it's vegetarian? Chicken is a wonderful source of everything and cheaper than focaccciaccaia-whatever that is.

LOL focaccia is a type of cheese. And as much as I'm teasing Notabunny about vegetarianism, if the point is to teach the kids about eating fruits and veggies instead of McChicken McNuggets, why not focus on fruits and vegetables.

I would be willing to start with meat prepared in a halfway decent fashion, with some veggies and fruit thrown in.  Baby steps, folks.  There is an awful lot of inertia here.  The terrible food habits didn't develop overnight, and they aren't going to vanish overnight.

Skip the meat; it's expensive and unhealthy anyway.


I'm not arguing that point, particularly.  But there is a scale of how bad meat can be for you, and the McNugget (delicious as they are) is just about the far end.   If we can get people to just grilled chicken, or some turkey kabobs or something, it's progress.
 
2014-02-11 09:16:51 AM  

Notabunny: ReapTheChaos: I've been seeing these "lets end food deserts" ads on TV quite a bit and I've been wondering where exactly are the grocery store that don't sell vegetables? I've been to stores in some pretty poor neighborhoods and I've never seen one that didn't. Even if their selection of fresh produce was limited, they always have frozen, which for most vegetables is just as healthy as fresh.

The problem isn't access to healthy food, it's getting people to change their habits. If you didn't grow up eating vegetables and healthy food then your not likely to do it as an adult.

I know anecdotal evidence is flimsy, but I work in downtown Stockton, CA. and I'm willing to make a bet. Let's stand on the steps of City Hall, and I'll give you an hour to walk to a store and buy lettuce, carrots, potatoes, bananas, apples, a gallon of milk, and then walk back. I know that within 20 minutes you can get a payday loan and buy a fifth of Jack, but that's a different bet.


Everybody biatches to high hell about "food deserts" until someone tries to build a Whole Foods, Trader Joes, Wal-Mart, etc.... Then we have to hear even more biatching about "the gentrification of our neighborhoods" or other such bullshiat.
 
2014-02-11 09:25:34 AM  

doglover: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Fast food places aren't in the business of making people healthy.

I can't smoke stogies in the maternity ward, even if one of the kids is allegedly mine, and you're tellin' me we can't pass a law where you have to provide apples to keep your vendor's license in city limits?


More laws are not the answer.

All you would get is:

a) Apples would because a heavily regulated item, and cost $8-$12 at a grocery store.  "Free" at McDonalds.

b) College students, dopers and old hippies would start protests that they have a "right" to apples.

c)  Chuck Schumer would introduce legislation to heavily tax all other fruit.

d) Metric shiat-tons of apples would be thrown away.

e)  More legislation would be hastily written to regulate disposal of apples.
        e-1) A bunch of other shiat would be thrown in the legislation that would fark some other aspect of our lives up to an incredible degree.

Seriously... Stop with the regulation already.  How about, "If people want to buy apples, they should just BUY FARKING APPLES".
 
2014-02-11 09:33:41 AM  

liam76: While crockpot and oatmeal are cheap, the prep takes planning. Something that is tougher to do when you are poor and stressed.


100% true which is why I feel the lack of education is the root cause of the nutrition problem in cities.  There is a lack of understanding that a little time investment when making something in a crock-pot saves both time and money through out the week.
 
2014-02-11 09:34:25 AM  

LordJiro: blindpreacher: Proof that poor people are poor by choice. If they aren't even motivated enough to practice proper nutrition then they really are to blame for their own circumstances.

Thanks to our corporatist government and greedy, corner-cutting corporations, fast food prices are artificially low, while fresh food prices have risen. And since poor peoples' wages are so low (and many have to work multiple jobs just to keep a roof over their head), they simply can't afford the money OR time it takes to eat healthy.

But thanks for proving my "Idiots use obesity as a reason to justify their hatred for poor people" point.


What complete and utter bullshiat excuse making....

10lbs bag of chicken leg quarters --$6.00
1lb bag of rice --$1.99
2lb bag of frozen veg--$2.99

Cook time less than 30 mins....

the above would feed a family of four at least two meals.  But I understand $11.00 for eight meals and an hour of time is such a burden.
 
2014-02-11 09:38:19 AM  
Food gets way cheaper once you have a car.  Car = choice, feet = they got you.

When I lived in the city, the healthiest food was the hardest to get to:

Fast food.Main drag had everything right up the block.
The bodega: Two-minute walk. Beer, ice cream, lottery tickets, sad onions.
C Town: 20-minute walk.  Don't buy meat, bread, or anything not in a factory-sealed container.  That place is disgusting. Prices higher than Whole Foods.  Closes right when you get home from work.
Flatbush PathMark: A 45-minute walk.  You can get anything for a going price, but you can only take with you what you can carry. It will take you half a day on foot, round trip, pulling one of those old lady carts.  Multiple families will pull up in a single taxi to make a trip worthwhile.
Prospect Park Green Market:An even longer haul, and not really practical for more than the occasional foodie treat.

Out here in the suburbs, the food is so cheap, it's basically free.  Last week, I got two weeks worth of veg for $20.  I paid $20-something for an entire pork loin that became a roast, 10 center-cut chops, stir fry, and breakfast sausage.  The cost of a complete meal falls down to the area of $3 a serving.
 
2014-02-11 10:18:45 AM  

White_Scarf_Syndrome: WhoGAS: It's not money, it's education.

I try to provide my kids with fresh foods but when I'm out of money, I can only provide what I can.

HOWEVER, that is not McDonald's.  I keep rice and dried vegetables for emergencies (yeah, it's not delicious but it's survivable) and I never cook with a microwave.  There are foods we can get inexpensively and retrieve the benefits.

The dried veggie packs from those noodle bowls go great with rice, ground turkey and some frozen peas and carrots in a rice cooker.

Noodles without the flavor packs go great with the $5.00 breaded chicken breasts and frozen peas and carrots.

So many poor recipes I can share.  (Two kids, single dad, paying alimony but get no child support...)

Yeah, it's not fresh, but at least it's not McDonald's.

I'll be honest, I was about to call you an asshole for not cooking with the microwave bit.  I'm a single dad too but nowhere near your level of suck.  shiat man... We should share recipes.  I'm guilty of the microwave chicken nuggets but man the boy went nuts for the rice and chicken vindaloo I made.  Frozen veggies go a long way, get some spinach and some spices and some of that rice paper stuff and make some southwest eggrolls.  Luckily the boy loves green beans straight outta the can.


I know this thread has passed its prime, but I'd like to give a nod to single dads who cook for their kids.

I salute you with my oven-gloved hand, gentlemen!

fwiw - google recipes written for kids - they are simple, fairly healthy, and your little ones learn the basics (former latch-key kid, single parent raised, can make a meal out of pantry empty enough to echo)
 
2014-02-11 10:20:46 AM  
I don't know if where i live in a larger (for Kansas, 13,000 population) town would be considered a "food desert" just due to the fact that there is a Walmart here, but the lack of healthy food choices is very evident. We have the only Walmart within a 40 minute drive and frequently have people coming from 3 or 4 counties away to shop there. The vegetables are rarely fresh and never local despite being surrounded by farms.


The restaurant choices in my town are Fast Food place x8, BBQ place x4, Pizza place x4, Greasy Italian place x2, greasy Chinese buffet x2, greasy Mexican place x2, greasy "Southern" food x3, and one Applebee's. Even at the Applebee's, the only vinaigrette (e.g. not high fat mayo based) salad dressing would be the "Bacon" vinaigrette. There is a farmers market during the summer and fall seasons for a few hours on Saturday, but i rarely see much variety there. It usually is just a couple stands with some vegetables and the rest would be honey, jam, or sausage and jerky made from various game animals.


I usually have to drive about an hour and a half to get to the nearest Whole Foods to pay out the ass to get any decent produce. I am lucky enough to have a job where i can afford to do such a thing on a fairly regular basis.
 
2014-02-11 10:31:20 AM  

fusillade762: But more than that, he says, many people, particularly in low-income food deserts, just aren't used to buying or preparing healthy meals

I think only in America will you find poor people who don't know how to cook.


This.

liam76: While crockpot and oatmeal are cheap, the prep takes planning. Something that is tougher to do when you are poor and stressed.


And this.

zenmhunter: the above would feed a family of four at least two meals. But I understand $11.00 for eight meals and an hour of time is such a burden.


Sometimes it actually is, especially when you're flipping exhausted.  You forgot to add in a) grocery shopping time, b) prep time, c) cleanup time too.

I'm lucky that I have an awesome group of international groceries/restaurants right next to my house.  At least when I am utterly exhausted (and I *don't* have kids to worry about, and I *do* have  car) I can pick up cheap but healthier food within a 3 minute stop.

But there's definitely a need for education without condescending.  There's a non-profit 'round here that helps lower income folks put in raised garden beds and also sends volunteers out to teach kids those kind of quick/healthy meals.  Maybe you should look into one where you are.
 
2014-02-11 10:34:49 AM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: So, the "food desert" is the progressives' version of the knockout game, right?


Yes - it is largely media manufactured:
http://www.npr.org/2010/12/15/132076786/the-root-the-myth-of-the-foo d- desert
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/18/health/research/pairing-of-food-de se rts-and-obesity-challenged-in-studies.html?_r=0

The issue is a lot more complex than "evil fast food".
 
2014-02-11 10:35:45 AM  
Eskaminagaga, wouldn't there be farm stands around where you are?  We get that around here and we're only an hour or so outside of NYC.

Not great for the winter, but that can be quite good during the other three seasons.  Further out, they pick up even more.  There's actually a poultry farm near us that has an attached butcher shop.  It's fantastic, but you'd totally miss it if you didn't know it was there.

One time I went in and there was an out-of-season deer hoofs-up on the table.  There was a completely ridiculous scramble to try to hide it.  Dude, I'm not the game warden . . . and I can still see the antlers.
 
2014-02-11 10:39:54 AM  

syberpud: The issue is a lot more complex than "evil fast food".


The problem is that we're wired to love that crap.  Veggie frittata stands just don't make the kind of money that McDonalds does.
 
2014-02-11 10:41:35 AM  

James Rieper: Eskaminagaga, wouldn't there be farm stands around where you are?  We get that around here and we're only an hour or so outside of NYC.


Nope, there is not near enough traffic through the area to make them viable. I sometimes see a mobile "Burrito"  or "Snow Cone" truck in the summer, but have not seen any actual stands other than the Farmers market ones. I used to live in upstate NY and saw the stands all the time there.
 
2014-02-11 10:48:12 AM  
fusillade762:

I think only in America will you find poor people who don't know how to cook.

Been in the kitchen of any restaurant lately?


In any case, it depends on the species of poors you are talking about. Your fresh imports, like you will find in NY, LA, and Miami, are some of the best cooks around. They know fresh food and cooking from scratch because thats what they are used to.

Now, old-stock poors, who have gone stale, those are the ones that don't know how to do anything unless it involves the microwave.
 
2014-02-11 10:50:54 AM  
Eskaminagaga: I don't know if where i live in a larger (for Kansas, 13,000 population) town would be considered a "food desert" just due to the fact that there is a Walmart here, but the lack of healthy food choices is very evident. We have the only Walmart within a 40 minute drive and frequently have people coming from 3 or 4 counties away to shop there. The vegetables are rarely fresh and never local despite being surrounded by farms.


My family went to a Diner one time in the middle of florida. we pull into the parking lot that is surrounded on three sides by orange groves. My dad asked for a glass of OJ and the waitress said "sorry, we're out". We all turned our heads out the window and then looked back at the waitress who just shrugged her shoulders.
 
2014-02-11 10:51:23 AM  

Muta: liam76: While crockpot and oatmeal are cheap, the prep takes planning. Something that is tougher to do when you are poor and stressed.

100% true which is why I feel the lack of education is the root cause of the nutrition problem in cities.  There is a lack of understanding that a little time investment when making something in a crock-pot saves both time and money through out the week.


It goes a bit beyond education. Even with that knowledge putting it in practice is going to be tough without a life style change, and that is very tough when peopel work 40hour weeks and can barely get by.
 
2014-02-11 10:54:16 AM  

CujoQuarrel: brimed03: This text is now purple: ongbok: I have a feeling your idea of a poor neighborhood is one were everybody has 10 year old cars. Because if you had ever been to the poor areas that they are calling food deserts you would know that there aren't any grocery stores in the area. The places where people in those areas buy food are either the corner liquor store that has a section or two that has some grocery items, usually past or nearing expiration, or fast food places. People in these areas are limited because they don't have transportation to get to a real grocery store besides public transportation, and that could take them a few hours to get to the store and back.


The oddest detail is that those same people will turn around a fight the installation of a grocery store.


Citation needed.


Seriously. I've lived by those areas and the residents were clamoring, crying for a supermarket.


/"those people?"
//teasing
///the all new iSlash


Citation -->  http://guardianlv.com/2014/02/trader-joes-denied-by-black-portland-co m munity/


As discovered in the thread about that here, the locals wanted it, a small advocacy group wanted TJ to pay for affordable housing.

Bathia_Mapes: meat0918: Notabunny: Here's a fun idea: Let's change the way the government subsidizes food so that a Big Mac costs $8 and 2,000 calories worth of salad costs $1.99

I'd be ok with fixing this.

[www.pcrm.org image 500x356]

Full disclosure, my wife is very involved in food policy, and by extension I am because I help her with research and she is getting real tired of the elitist attitude she runs into towards our poorer part of town.

The general attitude from a few of these people is, um, not exactly good towards the lower class.  They want a Market of Choice (think Whole Foods) or some local independent organic grocer, we'd be happy with something far more basic and cheap, because we're realists, and know that there we need incentives to get one there, and the incentives for a high end grocer will be greater than for a lower end grocer.  There already would be a grocery store in one of our food deserts if the demand was there, and but it would still not be a Whole Foods.

In all likelihood I suspect what will end up there is one of the Walmart Neighborhood Market.

the801: meat0918:
Also, get the kids at the school some ideas on fresh foods.  Hook 'em while they're young.


[wp-b.com image 350x300]  [cdn.niketalk.com image 350x263]


Here is some of what my kids' school district serves from their Facebook page, and the menus are standardized across the district.

[i.imgur.com image 720x538]
[i.imgur.com image 405x720]

When we moved to the Gateway area about a year ago it was considered a food desert. The closest place resembling a grocery store at the time was Target, but their selection of fresh food & produce is not only limited, but tends to be spendy, especially to those like me who try to budget their food dollars wisely. A Walmart Neighborhood Market opened back in mid-September and while its selection isn't as good as Winco, it keeps me from having to ride to & from the store on the bus. I still shop at Winco, but have shaved that down to a once a month ...


I used to live over there.  I panicked when my car broke down, and I honestly don't remember if we bummed a ride or used the bus to pick up essentials while it was in the shop.

I'll be honest, some small part of me wants one of those Walmart Neighborhood Markets to be placed there, just for the spite factor towards the people that want to treat this area like a a child that doesn't know what is good for it.  But I'll be happy if it's more than a Dari mart
 
2014-02-11 11:00:37 AM  

Nidiot: Clemkadidlefark: Might have something to do with taste. Veggies are mostly blech, while meat and cheese and a deep fryer are tasty, tasty.

You'd have to rewire brains to make broccoli and cabbage taste as good as a cheeseburger. With bacon.

[www.rawfoodlife.com image 360x262]

This is the ultimate issue, our brains were designed to crave what was, in the past, the rarest and most difficult to come by foods. Since we are clever we've now made foods that consist of fat, sugar or salt common and easy to come by, and we find them just as delicious as ever.

Even if the cheeseburger with bacon cost more, it would still be the preferred choice by most consumers, simply because it tastes better.

Also I don't care about the inevitable weirdos who like to proclaim how much they like things like broccoli, they are in the minority. There is a reason there are plenty of places you can buy a burger or a pizza, but not a place to buy cooked broccoli.

Ignore the taste factor and you will change nothing.


bada-bing
 
2014-02-11 11:16:32 AM  

meat0918: I'll be honest, some small part of me wants one of those Walmart Neighborhood Markets to be placed there, just for the spite factor towards the people that want to treat this area like a a child that doesn't know what is good for it. But I'll be happy if it's more than a Dari mart


To clairfy "there" is not Gateway, but 4 Corners.
 
2014-02-11 11:23:13 AM  

ReapTheChaos: I've been seeing these "lets end food deserts" ads on TV quite a bit and I've been wondering where exactly are the grocery store that don't sell vegetables? I've been to stores in some pretty poor neighborhoods and I've never seen one that didn't. Even if their selection of fresh produce was limited, they always have frozen, which for most vegetables is just as healthy as fresh.

The problem isn't access to healthy food, it's getting people to change their habits. If you didn't grow up eating vegetables and healthy food then your not likely to do it as an adult.


Ditto. My roommate refuses to eat veggies (other than potatoes and corn) because he's been fending for himself since he was a kid. He's basically Jake Peralta from Brooklyn 99.

Moreover, we're not considering the following factors:

Time - if you working 3 jobs you aren't going to have any prep time

Freezer space - No bulk purchasing if you don't have freezer and fridge space

Knowledge - making healthy food taste good is an art

Self-Medication/Decision Fatigue - being poor sucks, even the strongest among us are going to be depressed and stressed as all hell. So you either self-medicate the depression away and/or you run out of willpower at the end of the day and get a Big Mac because you're hungry and tired dammit.
 
2014-02-11 11:25:55 AM  

Muta: liam76: While crockpot and oatmeal are cheap, the prep takes planning. Something that is tougher to do when you are poor and stressed.

100% true which is why I feel the lack of education is the root cause of the nutrition problem in cities.  There is a lack of understanding that a little time investment when making something in a crock-pot saves both time and money through out the week.


And why is that anyone else's problem?
 
2014-02-11 11:34:01 AM  

DocTravesty: Never have I seen a more appropriate Fark handle.  You do understand that we're already spending money to make the corn, beef and wheat that went into the Big Mac cheaper?  He's suggesting shifting the existing subsidies to different, healthier foods.


He's suggesting making it more expensive for me to gorge myself on meats and cheeses.  Frankly he should be executed by firing squad.
 
2014-02-11 11:41:30 AM  

mamoru: Granted, this is anecdotal, but in most countries I've been in outside of the USA and especially 2 of the 3 I've lived in (Morocco and currently Thailand), the price of fast food franchise food is often more expensive than the local street food, and the street food is usually much more nutritious and tasty. And, especially here in Thailand, the "dirt poor" are extremely poor, but the local food is usually cheap enough for people to afford reasonable healthy meals.

In places like here in Thailand and in Japan (where I've also lived), eating at places like MacDonald's was often more about being trendy than convenient or cheap.


I can't address those areas but I'll add China to the list--McDonalds is more expensive than several places we have eaten at.  Admittedly those places are not where tourists usually go but it's not because they're no good, it's because there's a total lack of English.

baconbeard: I don't the the price of carrots in Tokyo are particularly relevant to this discussion. You can buy healthy food for reasonable prices in Tokyo supermarkets; perhaps not carrots (or melons), but seasonable vegetables, fish, etc.


Second this.  We spend a day in Tokyo on a stopover--and found it no more expensive than the US in terms of what we were doing.  (Admittedly we never got more than about a mile from the airport.)

OgreMagi: I've been poor to the point that I was eating only because a friend found out I was going days at a time without anything more than ramen. Yes, if you are fat you aren't farking poor. If you have a roof over your head and enough food to be fat, you are a damn sight better than most the the world's population. Hell, the people complaining about being poor also have a big screen tv and a car. That isn't poor.


Yeah, I've seen real poverty.  The worst example was in Kampala, Uganda.  We were traveling overland and staying in a campsite, not in a hotel.  This was not too long after the time of Idi Amin and security was an issue.  The government knew foreigners brought in hard currency and thus did what they could to address the security situation--the result being our campsite (there were many groups there, not just us) had military security after dark.  (While we were advised not to go out after dark we weren't actually confined.  The soldiers were there to keep trouble out, not us in.)  Despite that a woman slipped into our camp.  She was obviously trying to be as inoffensive as possible and we ended up concluding that her objective was simply the warmth of our fire.  It was understandable that she would want that--she had no clothes.

Also, India, even longer ago.  Cows, cows everywhere--but no cow dung.  That was because every cow was followed by a kid.  Cow flops were *QUICKLY* scooped up and taken "home" (these were always people living on the street), dried and used as fuel for cooking.
 
2014-02-11 11:51:58 AM  

proteus_b: You could hand out the vegetables free of charge to some people and they won't eat them.


This is, sadly, true. My wife and I used to live next to a food bank and would routinely find the sidewalk littered with entire heads of lettuce, bags of tomatoes and loaves of bread with the 'soft part' dug out, etc. This was FREE food, no ID required, just walk in and write down how many people in your household. It always made me sad and a little mystified at humanity...
 
2014-02-11 12:10:09 PM  

meat0918: Notabunny: meat0918: Notabunny: Here's a fun idea: Let's change the way the government subsidizes food so that a Big Mac costs $8 and 2,000 calories worth of salad costs $1.99

I'd be ok with fixing this.

Thanks for your post. What would you and your wife think of using schools as food distribution and cooking education sites? The infrastructure is in place. The expense would be minimal. The benefits would be enormous.

They already are using our two of the Title I schools as food distribution sites. :)

That's a good idea on cooking ed sites.  I wonder if it is in the works actually.


They're doing that in the Amphi school district here in Tucson.
One program sends a weekend's worth of nutritionally balanced food home with the poorest of the children every week. It helps, but it doesn't cover summers or the spring/fall/winter breaks. The thing is, more than a third of the kids live below the poverty line and are food insecure.

Another program is the community garden project that yields fresh produce for the school, teaches the kids and their parents how to garden and prepare the food, and provides seed, fertilizer, planters (since most of the poorest live in apartments), and garden tools. It's making a difference.

It isn't enough, but it's a start.

Streetlight, if memory serves, is involved in similar programs in Detroit, which has no lack of space for gardens.
To be honest, it disgusts me a bit when I see posts condemning the poor for being poor.
They're not just food deserts, they're job deserts and hope deserts.
It costs money to move.
It costs money and time to learn how to cook.
It costs even more money - and is a time-consuming, humiliating process - to limit aid only to people who "deserve" it.
It costs society even more - and a huge chunk of whatever true righteousness or morality we may claim - to keep people poor, to fail to invest in our children and their educations, to leave addicts untreated and warehoused in prisons, to deny entire communities help, jobs, and hope.
We used to take care of our own. We didn't question who "deserved" help: We used to just step in and help. And we didn't blame the victims, and we didn't make people suffer until some hateful, smug bastards of politicians decided to divide us so they could rob us all. And they have.

It's painfully obvious that there's need, and the problems are huge. But unless you're stepping in to help after offering your criticisms, how the fark  do   can  you look yourself in the eye in the morning?
 
2014-02-11 12:32:03 PM  
They are clearly being racist against Michelle Obama.
 
2014-02-11 12:58:50 PM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: meat0918: Notabunny: meat0918: Notabunny: Here's a fun idea: Let's change the way the government subsidizes food so that a Big Mac costs $8 and 2,000 calories worth of salad costs $1.99

I'd be ok with fixing this.

Thanks for your post. What would you and your wife think of using schools as food distribution and cooking education sites? The infrastructure is in place. The expense would be minimal. The benefits would be enormous.

They already are using our two of the Title I schools as food distribution sites. :)

That's a good idea on cooking ed sites.  I wonder if it is in the works actually.

They're doing that in the Amphi school district here in Tucson.
One program sends a weekend's worth of nutritionally balanced food home with the poorest of the children every week. It helps, but it doesn't cover summers or the spring/fall/winter breaks. The thing is, more than a third of the kids live below the poverty line and are food insecure.

Another program is the community garden project that yields fresh produce for the school, teaches the kids and their parents how to garden and prepare the food, and provides seed, fertilizer, planters (since most of the poorest live in apartments), and garden tools. It's making a difference.

It isn't enough, but it's a start.

Streetlight, if memory serves, is involved in similar programs in Detroit, which has no lack of space for gardens.
To be honest, it disgusts me a bit when I see posts condemning the poor for being poor.
They're not just food deserts, they're job deserts and hope deserts.
It costs money to move.
It costs money and time to learn how to cook.
It costs even more money - and is a time-consuming, humiliating process - to limit aid only to people who "deserve" it.
It costs society even more - and a huge chunk of whatever true righteousness or morality we may claim - to keep people poor, to fail to invest in our children and their educations, to leave addicts untreated and warehoused in prisons, to deny entire communities help, jobs, and hope.
We used to take care of our own. We didn't question who "deserved" help: We used to just step in and help. And we didn't blame the victims, and we didn't make people suffer until some hateful, smug bastards of politicians decided to divide us so they could rob us all. And they have.

It's painfully obvious that there's need, and the problems are huge. But unless you're stepping in to help after offering your criticisms, how the fark  do   can  you look yourself in the eye in the morning?


Well, I am stepping into help after offering criticisms, so I got that going for me.

Currently one of the groups is worried more about supporting GMO labeling than food or jobs.  As in, that was most of a meeting that was supposed to be about enticing food related jobs to the area (and not fast food, but packaging and processing, we've got a good base for that already).

These are good, thoughtful people, that are just trying to help, but keeping focus on this freaking massive huge complicated problem facing our society is goddamn difficult.  People can't even agree what the problem is, they just know there is a problem and it needs fixing.

I feel like we need a new national level WPA to jump start the country.  Massive infrastructure projects to fix crumbling roads and bridges and expanded passenger and freight rail lines, clean power generation, rural broadband access akin to rural electrification, and we needed it yesterday.

Get the jobs here, help people climb out of poverty, and do it with more than telling them grab their own bootstraps and handing them a bucket full of empty promises.
 
2014-02-11 01:03:28 PM  

TV's Vinnie: avanti: When I know I have $50 to sustain myself I will spend it on broccoli.

Good god, I'll never touch broccoli again! Had a bowl of some last month and I felt like I was going to die all that night. My body wanted to go to sleep so very badly, but it was trapped on the john, feeling every single one of those demonic little florets slowly and painfully rasping it's way throughout my intestinal tract.


a) Chew your food
b) That's actually an indication that your gut is pretty messed up from your diet to begin with... you need to be eating more vegetables and fiber if just a little bit of it causes those issues.
 
2014-02-11 01:05:03 PM  

parasol: White_Scarf_Syndrome: WhoGAS: It's not money, it's education.

I try to provide my kids with fresh foods but when I'm out of money, I can only provide what I can.

HOWEVER, that is not McDonald's.  I keep rice and dried vegetables for emergencies (yeah, it's not delicious but it's survivable) and I never cook with a microwave.  There are foods we can get inexpensively and retrieve the benefits.

The dried veggie packs from those noodle bowls go great with rice, ground turkey and some frozen peas and carrots in a rice cooker.

Noodles without the flavor packs go great with the $5.00 breaded chicken breasts and frozen peas and carrots.

So many poor recipes I can share.  (Two kids, single dad, paying alimony but get no child support...)

Yeah, it's not fresh, but at least it's not McDonald's.

I'll be honest, I was about to call you an asshole for not cooking with the microwave bit.  I'm a single dad too but nowhere near your level of suck.  shiat man... We should share recipes.  I'm guilty of the microwave chicken nuggets but man the boy went nuts for the rice and chicken vindaloo I made.  Frozen veggies go a long way, get some spinach and some spices and some of that rice paper stuff and make some southwest eggrolls.  Luckily the boy loves green beans straight outta the can.

I know this thread has passed its prime, but I'd like to give a nod to single dads who cook for their kids.

I salute you with my oven-gloved hand, gentlemen!

fwiw - google recipes written for kids - they are simple, fairly healthy, and your little ones learn the basics (former latch-key kid, single parent raised, can make a meal out of pantry empty enough to echo)


His Mom tells me we are a rare breed.  Being good Fathers and all.  Putting petty BS aside to go to the playground instead.

I still feel like I'm 17, but that's because of the Melvins thread and now I'm listening to music from 1997.  With a 2 year old.
 
2014-02-11 01:14:12 PM  

doglover: Nogale: Not of iron, sadly.

LOLWAT?

[3.bp.blogspot.com image 850x1086]

You're supposed to eat the liver.


I'll stick with the eel.
 
2014-02-11 01:17:55 PM  
I call absolute bullshiat on everyone that argues that fast food is more expensive than a healthy alternative.

I have a family of four.  If I took us to McDonalds for breakfast, lunch, and supper in one day, I would spend more than it costs to feed us for three days with groceries.

Seriously.
 
2014-02-11 01:27:14 PM  
Well, I see that I said that backwards.
 
2014-02-11 01:46:03 PM  

shortymac: ReapTheChaos: I've been seeing these "lets end food deserts" ads on TV quite a bit and I've been wondering where exactly are the grocery store that don't sell vegetables? I've been to stores in some pretty poor neighborhoods and I've never seen one that didn't. Even if their selection of fresh produce was limited, they always have frozen, which for most vegetables is just as healthy as fresh.

The problem isn't access to healthy food, it's getting people to change their habits. If you didn't grow up eating vegetables and healthy food then your not likely to do it as an adult.

Ditto. My roommate refuses to eat veggies (other than potatoes and corn) because he's been fending for himself since he was a kid. He's basically Jake Peralta from Brooklyn 99.

Moreover, we're not considering the following factors:

Time - if you working 3 jobs you aren't going to have any prep time

Freezer space - No bulk purchasing if you don't have freezer and fridge space

Knowledge - making healthy food taste good is an art

Self-Medication/Decision Fatigue - being poor sucks, even the strongest among us are going to be depressed and stressed as all hell. So you either self-medicate the depression away and/or you run out of willpower at the end of the day and get a Big Mac because you're hungry and tired dammit.


I'd have to disagree with both of those statements. I can cook a healthy meal in 10-15 minutes. For example, last night I made salmon fillets on my George Forman grill. Coat with a little oil, sprinkle with lemon pepper and cook for about 5-6 minutes. Pop some frozen asparagus in a rubbermaid container (poke a couple holes in the top to let the steam out) season to taste, 5 minutes and they're steamed to perfection. Made some instant mashed potatoes on the stove and tossed a piece of Pepperage Farms frozen garlic toast in frying pan over medium heat, 2-3 minutes per side gets it nicely toasted. For dessert I had a light yogurt. Start to finish about 12 minutes, about 580 calories and I was stuffed.

You can substitute any meat and vegetables and get the same results. As for taste, the spice section of any grocery store has premixed spices for just about any flavor you're looking for, steak seasoning, pork chop rub, fajita seasoning, you name it. It might not be gourmet dining but it certainly tastes better than fast food or some premade microwave dinner.
 
2014-02-11 01:50:18 PM  
www.uwec.edu

Gee, I wonder why?
 
2014-02-11 01:55:15 PM  

WhoGAS: It's not money, it's education.

I try to provide my kids with fresh foods but when I'm out of money, I can only provide what I can.

HOWEVER, that is not McDonald's.  I keep rice and dried vegetables for emergencies (yeah, it's not delicious but it's survivable) and I never cook with a microwave.  There are foods we can get inexpensively and retrieve the benefits.

The dried veggie packs from those noodle bowls go great with rice, ground turkey and some frozen peas and carrots in a rice cooker.

Noodles without the flavor packs go great with the $5.00 breaded chicken breasts and frozen peas and carrots.

So many poor recipes I can share.  (Two kids, single dad, paying alimony but get no child support...)

Yeah, it's not fresh, but at least it's not McDonald's.


You need a lawyer, or a children's advocate, via the child support program.
You shouldn't be paying alimony, if you have child placement and aren't getting child support.
Document the time that you spend with your kid and if you can prove you have them for over 50% of the year, through said documentation and bills, then you can take it to a adjudicator and have your custody arrangement reassessed.
After that is reassessed, you can go to your local child support agency, and have them review your support agreement with your ex.
They will review your income, and your ex's(including her alimony) and will either arrange so that you get a lawyer to not have to pay out alimony, or you get a lien established on your ex, so that any tax refunds or other income they earn has to contribute to said support.

Theoretically, any check you send to your ex could have the child support deducted from it.
 
2014-02-11 01:57:42 PM  

MemeSlave: Muta: liam76: While crockpot and oatmeal are cheap, the prep takes planning. Something that is tougher to do when you are poor and stressed.

100% true which is why I feel the lack of education is the root cause of the nutrition problem in cities.  There is a lack of understanding that a little time investment when making something in a crock-pot saves both time and money through out the week.

And why is that anyone else's problem?


Because most people aren't ok with a "fark the poor" mentality in the richest ountry in the world.

Even if you are fine with adults doing shiat liek this, you should have a sliver of compassion for the kids who should be taugth another way, but maybe not.
 
2014-02-11 02:02:56 PM  

Ontos: doglover: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Fast food places aren't in the business of making people healthy.

I can't smoke stogies in the maternity ward, even if one of the kids is allegedly mine, and you're tellin' me we can't pass a law where you have to provide apples to keep your vendor's license in city limits?

More laws are not the answer.

All you would get is:

a) Apples would because a heavily regulated item, and cost $8-$12 at a grocery store.  "Free" at McDonalds.

b) College students, dopers and old hippies would start protests that they have a "right" to apples.

c)  Chuck Schumer would introduce legislation to heavily tax all other fruit.

d) Metric shiat-tons of apples would be thrown away.

e)  More legislation would be hastily written to regulate disposal of apples.
        e-1) A bunch of other shiat would be thrown in the legislation that would fark some other aspect of our lives up to an incredible degree.

Seriously... Stop with the regulation already.  How about, "If people want to buy apples, they should just BUY FARKING APPLES".


We tried that once. We ended up with the Dust Bowl and pretty massive starvation, because farmers only grew what was profitable at the time, instead of what was necessary, and the price of various things crashed and metric shiat-tons of food was thrown away because it wasn't worth the money to ship to market.
 
2014-02-11 03:14:54 PM  

WhoGAS: It's not money, it's education.

I try to provide my kids with fresh foods but when I'm out of money, I can only provide what I can.

HOWEVER, that is not McDonald's.  I keep rice and dried vegetables for emergencies (yeah, it's not delicious but it's survivable) and I never cook with a microwave.  There are foods we can get inexpensively and retrieve the benefits.

The dried veggie packs from those noodle bowls go great with rice, ground turkey and some frozen peas and carrots in a rice cooker.

Noodles without the flavor packs go great with the $5.00 breaded chicken breasts and frozen peas and carrots.

So many poor recipes I can share.  (Two kids, single dad, paying alimony but get no child support...)

Yeah, it's not fresh, but at least it's not McDonald's.


I'm not sure making it easier for you to waste more time a Fark is a good idea, but please enjoy this TotalFark sub.  You might want to consider writing a cookbook.  I bet many people would love to know how to cook on the cheap.

/Sorry for the late response
//Couldn't do it this morning on mobile
///Shirley Temple
 
2014-02-11 03:18:27 PM  

tlars699: You need a lawyer, or a children's advocate, via the child support program.
You shouldn't be paying alimony, if you have child placement and aren't getting child support.
Document the time that you spend with your kid and if you can prove you have them for over 50% of the year, through said documentation and bills, then you can take it to a adjudicator and have your custody arrangement reassessed.
After that is reassessed, you can go to your local child support agency, and have them review your support agreement with your ex.
They will review your income, and your ex's(including her alimony) and will either arrange so that you get a lawyer to not have to pay out alimony, or you get a lien established on your ex, so that any tax refunds or other income they earn has to contribute to said support.

Theoretically, any check you send to your ex could have the child support deducted from it.


Yes, I do.  When I was going through the divorce (took three years; her father's the head of pathology for a hospital and paid for it all) they made sure that I wouldn't be able to afford to fight.  Her father always thought she married beneath her so wanted to make sure I could never "get back at them".

I just don't have the time or energy right now to start another fight or have more drama (long stories) but I have plans to do something similar to what you suggested.

Thank you for your input; it's nice to see that you cared enough to assist how you could.
 
2014-02-11 03:20:31 PM  

MajorTubeSteak: I'm not sure making it easier for you to waste more time a Fark is a good idea, but please enjoy this TotalFark sub.  You might want to consider writing a cookbook.  I bet many people would love to know how to cook on the cheap.

/Sorry for the late response
//Couldn't do it this morning on mobile
///Shirley Temple


Well, thank you very much for that.

Cookbook?  I never really thought about it; I just figured I'm doing what everyone else with little money does.  Hmm.  I'll start jotting my recipes down.  At least it will be something my kids can use later.  Thanks!
 
2014-02-11 03:31:13 PM  
Food deserts are areas that are not served by grocery stores or healthy restaurants. Typically people eat fast food or get food from convenience stores.

They are caused by

1) poverty (people can't afford to buy good food and must eat cheap heavily-subsidized processed food; people can't afford the time or transportation to travel to suburban malls);

2) suburbs (some food deserts are suburbs, but the suburbs have sucked the commercial life out of towns and cities of all sizes). This is an unintended consequence of the automobile which destroyed downtown shopping and also the trollies that used to run from suburbs into towns. The automobile did serious damage to railroads and bus lines as well, leaving many poor people and neighborhoods without safe, affordable public transportation)

3) The growth of commercial chains. Until the 1930s, most stores were independantly owned and dealt directly farmers and other suppliers. The supermarket was invented in the 1930s and spread like a cancer in the 1940s and 1950s. This meant stores that were only accessible by car and thus stores that were mostly in the suburbs of small towns and cities. Since well before the Great Recession began in 2007-2008, even supermarkets have been falling prey to mega-stores which means fewer locations and more areas of food desert for those who do not own cars or have driver's licences. The mortar and brick stores, even the super-sized corporate stores, have also been suffering from virtualisation as people shop online. But many poor people can't afford to do this because it requires computers and credit cards and postal stations to which goods can be safely delivered. For example, I now keep a box at the nearby UPS store at a cost of over $120 a year because packages can not be safely delivered to my apartment. There is no guarantee that Amazon.com, etc. will ship things to the nearest postal station (one of two post offices in the back of stores).

4) Transportation policy that has favoured the automobile (and thus profits) over public transport (and social goods, whether private or public sector.

In short, it is not the fault of progressives or even conservatives that food deserts exist:  it is the fault of "progress". We all did this by not thinking things through to their consequences. Every time you put price over quality or convenience over responsibility. Every time you shop, you make decisions on imperfect information and with unintended consequences for the whole world.

I don't believe you can save the world by shopping (as so many conservatives and liberals, greens and capitalists seem to think). But your decisions and their consequences are evident everytime you choose a heavily advertised junk food item over something healthier for you, the community, the country, and life on Earth.
 
2014-02-11 03:46:08 PM  
My food choices are sub-optimal by far but I am lucky to be:

1) able to get lunch five days a week at a good food court;
2) able to eat "breakfast" at work and to eat my lunch or other snacks leisurely;
3) five minutes walk away from a pretty good grocery store;
4) less than 20 minutes walk from a farmer's market
5) able to keep my junk food restaurant meals down to a few a week.

Individuals and families are up against 1) advertising, 2) merchandising; 3) Big Agro-Industry; 4) Big Processed Foods; 5) Big Tobacco; 6) Big Booze; 7) government bureaucrats and politicians who are captured by well-funded interests and their well-oiled and very expensive propaganda machines.

Junk food is on sale everywhere. It is subsidized to the hilt and it is flaunted and flogged aggressively.

Conservatives tend to moralize this. Liberals tend to be middle-class or upper-middle class and to be able to provide for the education, training and health care that the poorer classes can't afford or obtain.

It is very hard to move the world because of the immense inertia and active resistance of everything from our own bodies and habits to the global supply chain. Too much is invested in the wrong decisions for the right decisions to triumph.

But all is not hopeless. Many of the world's supposed poor are eating better than the supposed rich. We are all suffering from a kind of affluenza, even many of the poor, who are getting sickly and obese just like the people in relatively rich social classes in relatively rich countries.

What needs to be done is to shift the subsidies for corporate farms to smaller family farms, from junk food ingredients such as corn and soybean byproduct to healthy foods like nuts, vegetables, fruit and whole, unprocessed food products; and to make the effort to eat well rather than without thought or effort. There are plenty of "progressives" experimenting with lifestyles and new foods, with slow eating and with thoughtful diet. Even many who consider themselves conservatives are actually adopting large parts of the organic-green-sustainable-local-health food specturm rather than eating like the proles.

But it takes thought and very hard work at all levels from the bottom to top of society to do this.

A home-cooked meal served to the whole family has become the exception rather than the rule, even for "conservatives". This is the first place it all went wrong. And it has been going wrong since the days of the bake house and "made dishes"--which means for several centuries now.
 
2014-02-11 03:55:04 PM  

Pitabred: Ontos: doglover: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Fast food places aren't in the business of making people healthy.

I can't smoke stogies in the maternity ward, even if one of the kids is allegedly mine, and you're tellin' me we can't pass a law where you have to provide apples to keep your vendor's license in city limits?

More laws are not the answer.

All you would get is:

a) Apples would because a heavily regulated item, and cost $8-$12 at a grocery store.  "Free" at McDonalds.

b) College students, dopers and old hippies would start protests that they have a "right" to apples.

c)  Chuck Schumer would introduce legislation to heavily tax all other fruit.

d) Metric shiat-tons of apples would be thrown away.

e)  More legislation would be hastily written to regulate disposal of apples.
        e-1) A bunch of other shiat would be thrown in the legislation that would fark some other aspect of our lives up to an incredible degree.

Seriously... Stop with the regulation already.  How about, "If people want to buy apples, they should just BUY FARKING APPLES".

We tried that once. We ended up with the Dust Bowl and pretty massive starvation, because farmers only grew what was profitable at the time, instead of what was necessary, and the price of various things crashed and metric shiat-tons of food was thrown away because it wasn't worth the money to ship to market.


Worth repeating.  Farm subsidies are deeply flawed but at the end of the day it is far far better to produce more food than we need (and then waste it) than deal with market fluctuations and corrections that every now and then leave us without enough food to feed our people.  Crazed shoppers already trample over each other to get the last XBox or Tickle Me Elmo.  Imagine how bad it would be for food.
 
2014-02-11 04:15:58 PM  

meat0918: Notabunny: Here's a fun idea: Let's change the way the government subsidizes food so that a Big Mac costs $8 and 2,000 calories worth of salad costs $1.99

I'd be ok with fixing this.

[www.pcrm.org image 500x356]

Full disclosure, my wife is very involved in food policy, and by extension I am because I help her with research and she is getting real tired of the elitist attitude she runs into towards our poorer part of town.

The general attitude from a few of these people is, um, not exactly good towards the lower class.  They want a Market of Choice (think Whole Foods) or some local independent organic grocer, we'd be happy with something far more basic and cheap, because we're realists, and know that there we need incentives to get one there, and the incentives for a high end grocer will be greater than for a lower end grocer.  There already would be a grocery store in one of our food deserts if the demand was there, and but it would still not be a Whole Foods.

In all likelihood I suspect what will end up there is one of the Walmart Neighborhood Market.

the801: meat0918:
Also, get the kids at the school some ideas on fresh foods.  Hook 'em while they're young.


[wp-b.com image 350x300]  [cdn.niketalk.com image 350x263]


Here is some of what my kids' school district serves from their Facebook page, and the menus are standardized across the district.

[i.imgur.com image 720x538]
[i.imgur.com image 405x720]


Doesn't seem much of a wonder why kids are getting fatter when that's the sort of tripe they're getting served in schools.
 
2014-02-11 04:32:43 PM  

Demiglace: meat0918: Notabunny: Here's a fun idea: Let's change the way the government subsidizes food so that a Big Mac costs $8 and 2,000 calories worth of salad costs $1.99

I'd be ok with fixing this.

[www.pcrm.org image 500x356]

Full disclosure, my wife is very involved in food policy, and by extension I am because I help her with research and she is getting real tired of the elitist attitude she runs into towards our poorer part of town.

The general attitude from a few of these people is, um, not exactly good towards the lower class.  They want a Market of Choice (think Whole Foods) or some local independent organic grocer, we'd be happy with something far more basic and cheap, because we're realists, and know that there we need incentives to get one there, and the incentives for a high end grocer will be greater than for a lower end grocer.  There already would be a grocery store in one of our food deserts if the demand was there, and but it would still not be a Whole Foods.

In all likelihood I suspect what will end up there is one of the Walmart Neighborhood Market.

the801: meat0918:
Also, get the kids at the school some ideas on fresh foods.  Hook 'em while they're young.


[wp-b.com image 350x300]  [cdn.niketalk.com image 350x263]


Here is some of what my kids' school district serves from their Facebook page, and the menus are standardized across the district.

[i.imgur.com image 720x538]
[i.imgur.com image 405x720]

Doesn't seem much of a wonder why kids are getting fatter when that's the sort of tripe they're getting served in schools.


This is tripe

www.bunrab.com

Also, childhood obesity may have leveled out and could be in a decline.
 
2014-02-11 05:09:46 PM  

meat0918: This is tripe

Also, childhood obesity may have leveled out and could be in a decline.


You are now farkied as melodious Gargamelle.
 
2014-02-11 05:41:52 PM  

Pitabred: TV's Vinnie: avanti: When I know I have $50 to sustain myself I will spend it on broccoli.

Good god, I'll never touch broccoli again! Had a bowl of some last month and I felt like I was going to die all that night. My body wanted to go to sleep so very badly, but it was trapped on the john, feeling every single one of those demonic little florets slowly and painfully rasping it's way throughout my intestinal tract.

a) Chew your food
b) That's actually an indication that your gut is pretty messed up from your diet to begin with... you need to be eating more vegetables and fiber if just a little bit of it causes those issues.


"Eating certain foods feel painful? Eat more of those foods!" -- Pitabred "logic".
 
2014-02-11 06:19:22 PM  

WhoGAS: White_Scarf_Syndrome: I'll be honest, I was about to call you an asshole for not cooking with the microwave bit.  I'm a single dad too but nowhere near your level of suck.

My friend tells me you are insulting me with this comment.


I wasn't.  "level of suck" was meant to address your situation.  I can see how that would appear insulting.
 
2014-02-11 06:59:38 PM  

White_Scarf_Syndrome: WhoGAS: White_Scarf_Syndrome: I'll be honest, I was about to call you an asshole for not cooking with the microwave bit.  I'm a single dad too but nowhere near your level of suck.

My friend tells me you are insulting me with this comment.

I wasn't.  "level of suck" was meant to address your situation.  I can see how that would appear insulting.


Thanks for responding.  I wasn't sure so I thought I'd give you the benefit of the doubt and not just assume you were being mean.  :)
 
2014-02-11 07:49:58 PM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: meat0918: This is tripe

Also, childhood obesity may have leveled out and could be in a decline.

You are now farkied as melodious Gargamelle.


Not getting the reference, but ok.
 
2014-02-11 07:59:36 PM  

LordJiro: blindpreacher: Proof that poor people are poor by choice. If they aren't even motivated enough to practice proper nutrition then they really are to blame for their own circumstances.

Thanks to our corporatist government and greedy, corner-cutting corporations, fast food prices are artificially low, while fresh food prices have risen. And since poor peoples' wages are so low (and many have to work multiple jobs just to keep a roof over their head), they simply can't afford the money OR time it takes to eat healthy.

But thanks for proving my "Idiots use obesity as a reason to justify their hatred for poor people" point.


This is bullshiat. Fresh food is not markedly more expensive than fast food or processed food, even if you take prep time into account. I've done the food stamp challenge and managed to not have to buy a single processed item while easily meeting 2000 calories per day.

I also tend hate the "food desert" ads because they are terribly misleading. They always show urban scenes in minority neighborhoods, which actually tend to have excellent produce selection at really good prices. Most real food deserts tend to exist in predominantly white rural areas.
 
2014-02-11 08:12:03 PM  

ongbok: ReapTheChaos: I've been seeing these "lets end food deserts" ads on TV quite a bit and I've been wondering where exactly are the grocery store that don't sell vegetables? I've been to stores in some pretty poor neighborhoods and I've never seen one that didn't. Even if their selection of fresh produce was limited, they always have frozen, which for most vegetables is just as healthy as fresh.

The problem isn't access to healthy food, it's getting people to change their habits. If you didn't grow up eating vegetables and healthy food then your not likely to do it as an adult.

I have a feeling your idea of a poor neighborhood is one were everybody has 10 year old cars. Because if you had ever been to the poor areas that they are calling food deserts you would know that there aren't any grocery stores in the area. The places where people in those areas buy food are either the corner liquor store that has a section or two that has some grocery items, usually past or nearing expiration, or fast food places. People in these areas are limited because they don't have transportation to get to a real grocery store besides public transportation, and that could take them a few hours to get to the store and back.


Way to be a patronizing asshole. I've lived in Sunset Park, Brownsville, and East Flatbush, and ALL of them had great fruit stands and vegetable/fruit selective at local bodegas and other small stores.

There are no food deserts in inner cities. None. It may look like there are, because a lot of the places that sell fruit and vegetables aren't labeled "grocery store", and may be completely invisible online or in phone books, but they are there.
 
2014-02-11 10:32:03 PM  

CujoQuarrel: brimed03: This text is now purple: ongbok: I have a feeling your idea of a poor neighborhood is one were everybody has 10 year old cars. Because if you had ever been to the poor areas that they are calling food deserts you would know that there aren't any grocery stores in the area. The places where people in those areas buy food are either the corner liquor store that has a section or two that has some grocery items, usually past or nearing expiration, or fast food places. People in these areas are limited because they don't have transportation to get to a real grocery store besides public transportation, and that could take them a few hours to get to the store and back.


The oddest detail is that those same people will turn around a fight the installation of a grocery store.


Citation needed.


Seriously. I've lived by those areas and the residents were clamoring, crying for a supermarket.


/"those people?"
//teasing
///the all new iSlash


Citation -->  http://guardianlv.com/2014/02/trader-joes-denied-by-black-portland-co m munity/


Wow dude.  Trader Joe's?  THAT's your cited example?

They need a basic, low-price supermarket.  That's what they were arguing for, not an upscale trendy market.  Yes, it's cheaper than Whole Foods, but it ain't Shop Rite.
 
2014-02-11 10:38:15 PM  

CujoQuarrel: brimed03: This text is now purple: ongbok: I have a feeling your idea of a poor neighborhood is one were everybody has 10 year old cars. Because if you had ever been to the poor areas that they are calling food deserts you would know that there aren't any grocery stores in the area. The places where people in those areas buy food are either the corner liquor store that has a section or two that has some grocery items, usually past or nearing expiration, or fast food places. People in these areas are limited because they don't have transportation to get to a real grocery store besides public transportation, and that could take them a few hours to get to the store and back.


The oddest detail is that those same people will turn around a fight the installation of a grocery store.


Citation needed.


Seriously. I've lived by those areas and the residents were clamoring, crying for a supermarket.


/"those people?"
//teasing
///the all new iSlash


Citation -->  http://guardianlv.com/2014/02/trader-joes-denied-by-black-portland-co m munity/


SERIOUSLY??

I'm sorry to reply twice, but this REALLY pisses me off.  Did you even read the article you cite?  Without your FoxGlasses(tm) filter on, I mean.  Holy shiat.

FIRST LINE OF THE ARTICLE:  Trader Joe's grocery chain has canceled plans to open in a predominantly black Portland community after it was denied by its leaders because of the concern of gentrification.

THEY WERE CONCERNED-- RIGHTLY-- THAT ENSUING GENTRIFICATION WOULD PUSH THE RESIDENTS OUT OF THEIR OWN DAMN HOME.

They aren't arguing against supermarkets, meathead.  They jut don't want one (a) they can't afford and (b) will contribute to getting pushed out of the neighborhood.

I am so disappointed in you.
 
2014-02-11 11:02:47 PM  

brimed03: CujoQuarrel: brimed03: This text is now purple: ongbok: I have a feeling your idea of a poor neighborhood is one were everybody has 10 year old cars. Because if you had ever been to the poor areas that they are calling food deserts you would know that there aren't any grocery stores in the area. The places where people in those areas buy food are either the corner liquor store that has a section or two that has some grocery items, usually past or nearing expiration, or fast food places. People in these areas are limited because they don't have transportation to get to a real grocery store besides public transportation, and that could take them a few hours to get to the store and back.


The oddest detail is that those same people will turn around a fight the installation of a grocery store.


Citation needed.


Seriously. I've lived by those areas and the residents were clamoring, crying for a supermarket.


/"those people?"
//teasing
///the all new iSlash


Citation -->  http://guardianlv.com/2014/02/trader-joes-denied-by-black-portland-co m munity/

SERIOUSLY??

I'm sorry to reply twice, but this REALLY pisses me off.  Did you even read the article you cite?  Without your FoxGlasses(tm) filter on, I mean.  Holy shiat.

FIRST LINE OF THE ARTICLE:  Trader Joe's grocery chain has canceled plans to open in a predominantly black Portland community after it was denied by its leaders because of the concern of gentrification.

THEY WERE CONCERNED-- RIGHTLY-- THAT ENSUING GENTRIFICATION WOULD PUSH THE RESIDENTS OUT OF THEIR OWN DAMN HOME.

They aren't arguing against supermarkets, meathead.  They jut don't want one (a) they can't afford and (b) will contribute to getting pushed out of the neighborhood.

I am so disappointed in you.


I reflect your outrage as well.  That's asinine.

People like that exist here, though.  They've lived such privileged lives that they can't fathom that there could be anything else.  The people in my circle (not me; I'm from poor white trash stock) always talk about how Trader Joes is the best discount store they go to and they can't believe the values, blah blah blah.  I'm just thinking about hitting the dollar store on the way home for some kids' snacks.

Now, THAT's what they need.  $.99 Store.  Not he best, but their grocery items exist and are real vegetables and meats.
 
2014-02-12 06:21:35 AM  

liam76: While crockpot and oatmeal are cheap, the prep takes planning. Something that is tougher to do when you are poor and stressed.


One of the problems that poor tend to have is bad planning skills.

brimed03: FIRST LINE OF THE ARTICLE: Trader Joe's grocery chain has canceled plans to open in a predominantly black Portland community after it was denied by its leaders because of the concern of gentrification.

THEY WERE CONCERNED-- RIGHTLY-- THAT ENSUING GENTRIFICATION WOULD PUSH THE RESIDENTS OUT OF THEIR OWN DAMN HOME.



Funny thing about that - said 'community leaders' don't actually live in the neighborhood in question.  The people who actually live there protested that they WANT the TJ there.  A TJ that's in walking distance is cheaper than one you have to take the bus too once you take transport costs into consideration.
 
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