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(WIVB)   Local community organizer who advocated passage of the NY SAFE act that forbids firearms on school grounds arrested for...wait for it   (wivb.com) divider line 280
    More: Obvious, NY SAFE, community organizer, passage, firearms, elementary schools  
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6160 clicks; posted to Main » on 10 Feb 2014 at 3:04 PM (31 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-02-10 04:18:59 PM

rkiller1: Coconice: Well, I had hoped that this thread would be funny instead of annoying.

People willing to make multiple posts are clearly not too busy to substantiate their position.

Whether you're liberal or conservative, the whole "I'm right because things" argument makes me want to add you to my ignore list.

I'm just too afraid you'll say something funny or smart in a different thread.

People get worked-up over gun things.  It's almost as if a gun were a metaphor for penis.


Yeah, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
 
2014-02-10 04:19:03 PM

dittybopper: For even more perspective: People bent on committing massacres generally pick "gun free zones" largely because there aren't likely to be people who can return fire.


This is completely false.  But other than that, good post.  Can I make stuff up too, or are only you allowed to do that?
 
2014-02-10 04:20:55 PM

Callous: AngryDragon: ikanreed: If you've never been in a situation in high school where you'd escalate to shooting another student if you had a gun, you've never gone through puberty

I've never heard anyone suggest arming high school students.  In fact, it's a felony in all 50 states for a minor to be in possession of a firearm.

Their side of the argument isn't holding water so he switched to trying to punch holes in ours with "You want to arm kids!!!!" BS.


Oh look, you believed his oppositeofreality.txt, and swooped in to claim victory.  If it weren't for the ease with which myths about how unfair gun laws are were so easily believed by paranoid rubes, we could have a conversation without tremendous liars seizing the dialog.


//For my part, I feel the 2nd amendment is pretty air-tight, but it's completely outdated, and its advocates don't understand it.
 
2014-02-10 04:21:29 PM

lennavan: dittybopper: For even more perspective: People bent on committing massacres generally pick "gun free zones" largely because there aren't likely to be people who can return fire.

This is completely false.  But other than that, good post.  Can I make stuff up too, or are only you allowed to do that?


You say that like you haven't already.
 
2014-02-10 04:21:37 PM

Mell of a Hess: rkiller1: Coconice: Well, I had hoped that this thread would be funny instead of annoying.

People willing to make multiple posts are clearly not too busy to substantiate their position.

Whether you're liberal or conservative, the whole "I'm right because things" argument makes me want to add you to my ignore list.

I'm just too afraid you'll say something funny or smart in a different thread.

People get worked-up over gun things.  It's almost as if a gun were a metaphor for penis.

Yeah, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.


assets.nydailynews.com
 
2014-02-10 04:22:24 PM

lennavan: Mell of a Hess: lennavan:  And you're going to counter with BLOGS?

Nope - I used that because I liked the response and wished to copy it.  The National Review is not a blog.

The article I posted included a study that debunked your National Review article.  You countered that with a blog.


Dude, that blog was on YOUR side, not mine.  I simply quoted a response to it.

Geez.
 
2014-02-10 04:23:55 PM

Callous: You say that like you haven't already.


And yet, no one in the thread has pointed out whatever these blatant lies are.  It's almost like you think things without any sort of justification.

Have you ever considered that possibility?  That you could believe things for no reason?  I'm serious for now.  Have ya?
 
2014-02-10 04:24:01 PM

ikanreed: Callous: AngryDragon: ikanreed: If you've never been in a situation in high school where you'd escalate to shooting another student if you had a gun, you've never gone through puberty

I've never heard anyone suggest arming high school students.  In fact, it's a felony in all 50 states for a minor to be in possession of a firearm.

Their side of the argument isn't holding water so he switched to trying to punch holes in ours with "You want to arm kids!!!!" BS.

Oh look, you believed his oppositeofreality.txt, and swooped in to claim victory.  If it weren't for the ease with which myths about how unfair gun laws are were so easily believed by paranoid rubes, we could have a conversation without tremendous liars seizing the dialog.


//For my part, I feel the 2nd amendment is pretty air-tight, but it's completely outdated, and its advocates don't understand it.


I wasn't commenting on his point, I was commenting on the failure of yours.
 
2014-02-10 04:25:46 PM

rkiller1: Mell of a Hess: rkiller1: Coconice: Well, I had hoped that this thread would be funny instead of annoying.

People willing to make multiple posts are clearly not too busy to substantiate their position.

Whether you're liberal or conservative, the whole "I'm right because things" argument makes me want to add you to my ignore list.

I'm just too afraid you'll say something funny or smart in a different thread.

People get worked-up over gun things.  It's almost as if a gun were a metaphor for penis.

Yeah, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

[assets.nydailynews.com image 635x425]


Heh.  The guy in the background is laughing because Bill is pulling up the back of her dress.
 
2014-02-10 04:26:29 PM

Coconice: Well, I had hoped that this thread would be funny instead of annoying.

People willing to make multiple posts are clearly not too busy to substantiate their position.

Whether you're liberal or conservative, the whole "I'm right because things" argument makes me want to add you to my ignore list.

I'm just too afraid you'll say something funny or smart in a different thread.


These two Irishmen walk out of a bar ...
 
2014-02-10 04:27:26 PM

Callous: I wasn't commenting on his point, I was commenting on the failure of yours.


Uh, no.  I was defending the notion that perhaps gun-free-zones serve a useful function.  And then described that function.  Then idiot lied, with the intent of ignoring that critical point.  Then you went "ha, see, they wanted to do [thing that was impossible anyways, if and only if you accept the lie of the parent].

You can't say "ha, that point with which you're justifying your case is invalid because [statement of fact]" and still pretend conclusions from that [statement of fact] are relevant when it's demonstrated to be untrue.
 
2014-02-10 04:27:43 PM

AngryDragon: "Veteran FBI, ATF and police officials say that an armed citizen opening fire against an attacker in a panic-stricken movie theater or shopping mall is very likely to make matters worse. "

Except the article itself points out that this case has NEVER HAPPENED. Not once.


18 people were just shot and 6 people were just murdered in front of a Safeway (supermarket), you're only a few dozen yards away and you are carrying a gun.  You get to the scene and there is a guy with a gun standing over a guy on the ground.  You pull your gun, he sees you and starts to move.  What do you do?  You better answer fast, you wanted more information but you don't get it, that's all you know and decision time is RIGHT NOW.

I'm sure you'd do the right thing.  The guy who actually went through that scenario did the right thing.  But do you want all adult Americans, all those people you see in WalMart, to also possibly be making that decision?  What if it's you holding the gun, standing over the guy laying on the ground, after 18 people got shot and it's a goddamn bloody mess all around you.  Some redneck just rounded the corner.  I'm sure the last thing you'll think is "eh, freedom has its price."

Turned out you had tackled the shooter and taken his gun away.
 
2014-02-10 04:27:55 PM

ikanreed:  the 2nd amendment ... it's completely outdated, and its advocates don't understand it.


It's in place so that the citizens can rise up against a tyrannical government.
 
2014-02-10 04:28:57 PM

Callous: lennavan: dittybopper: For even more perspective: People bent on committing massacres generally pick "gun free zones" largely because there aren't likely to be people who can return fire.

This is completely false.  But other than that, good post.  Can I make stuff up too, or are only you allowed to do that?

You say that like you haven't already.


Wait, you didn't know child soccer leagues cancel games because of lightning?  You think I made that up?

el oh el
 
2014-02-10 04:29:53 PM

ikanreed: 1.  You look like an idiot.  Disallowing guns on school grounds is about lowering a simple risk factor without pretending it'll stop the most driven school shootings.  If you've never been in a situation in high school where you'd escalate to shooting another student if you had a gun, you've never gone through puberty.

It's not farking complicated, and you guys are really dumb about it.


ikanreed: Callous: You say that like you haven't already.

And yet, no one in the thread has pointed out whatever these blatant lies are.  It's almost like you think things without any sort of justification.

Have you ever considered that possibility?  That you could believe things for no reason?  I'm serious for now.  Have ya?



Oh look there's one.  You accused the pro-gun side of advocating the arming of minors.
 
2014-02-10 04:30:02 PM

Mell of a Hess: It's in place so that the citizens can rise up against a tyrannical government.


And that's exactly what it's outdated, yes.  That would not work, not under any strategic scenario.  Not in a non-agrarian society.  It was beggining to become impossible by the beginning of the 20th century, and it's laughable now.
 
2014-02-10 04:33:11 PM

lennavan: Callous: lennavan: dittybopper: For even more perspective: People bent on committing massacres generally pick "gun free zones" largely because there aren't likely to be people who can return fire.

This is completely false.  But other than that, good post.  Can I make stuff up too, or are only you allowed to do that?

You say that like you haven't already.

Wait, you didn't know child soccer leagues cancel games because of lightning?  You think I made that up?

el oh el


I was referring to that crap about us advocating the arming of minors because we didn't proactively deny it.  I know you are trying to sweep that under the rug but it's there for everyone to see.
 
2014-02-10 04:33:28 PM

Draskuul: Same level of hypocrisy as Diane Feinstein, who presses to strip all gun rights from the citizens while she has her own concealed carry permit.


Feinstein also supports insider trading...for Congress. She is the typical rich liberal overlord.
 
2014-02-10 04:34:15 PM

AngryDragon:  In fact, it's a felony in all 50 states for a minor to be in possession of a firearm.


Oh really?
 
2014-02-10 04:34:54 PM

Callous: Oh look there's one. You accused the pro-gun side of advocating the arming of minors.


I certainly suggested that your idiot course of action would result in an increase of that.  Minors already can be armed, just not at school.  There's already nothing stopping that, and I'm not sure why you're pretending that's an extreme position.

Hell, I'd advocate allowing minors to use weapons(under appropriate circumstances) if it weren't legal already.  You're just arguing for getting rid of the laws that prevent it from happening at schools.  You could establish a new legal framework to allow it, for the sole purpose of having a gun in like the 2 teachers who'd take one's desk.  And even that would be a bad idea.  That's all irrelevant, because I'm defending the status quo, and you're a liar.

Lying about me lying just makes you a hypocritical liar.

So nice.  Real nice.
 
2014-02-10 04:35:39 PM

YixilTesiphon: Callous: HotWingConspiracy: Mell of a Hess: HotWingConspiracy: Mell of a Hess: HotWingConspiracy: Mr. Eugenides: HotWingConspiracy: In this thread, dullards will employ bumper sticker wisdom to show the world they can't understand the utility of a gun free zone.

Surely you meant to type futility, not utility.

Nope. They work as intended.

If by that you mean that they notify people who wish to do harm to others that, if they're carrying a gun in a gun free zone, then they should not fear any immediate reprisal or resistance?

What do I win?

Herpa dee derpa dee do, friend.

Is that the 'splainin I was asking for?

It's the one you're getting.

 Please tell me why you think they work as intended, and while you're at it, tell me what the intention is.

You can read the laws as easily as I can. I'll give you a hint though, it was never argued that they would create magical force fields that guns cannot pass through.

The intent is to enhance safety at schools.  So what , exactly, does the law do that enhances safety at schools?  What evidence do you have that this law decreased the number of shootings, accidental or otherwise, at schools?

Show your work.

I think by this point in the thread it should be obvious he's not here to engage in intelligent debate.

/yes, I bit earlier


"engage in intelligent debate...?"

i257.photobucket.com

/gave up trying a while ago
//you can't use logic to convince a person to abandon a conclusion they arrived at illogically
///or something
 
2014-02-10 04:35:50 PM

ikanreed: Mell of a Hess: It's in place so that the citizens can rise up against a tyrannical government.

And that's exactly what it's outdated, yes.  That would not work, not under any strategic scenario.  Not in a non-agrarian society.  It was beggining to become impossible by the beginning of the 20th century, and it's laughable now.


Yeah, and that's a damn shame.

Y'all have a groovy thread.  I gotta go do my taxes, so that my tyrannical government can pay its creditors.
 
2014-02-10 04:36:17 PM

Callous: I was referring to that crap about us advocating the arming of minors because we didn't proactively deny it. I know you are trying to sweep that under the rug but it's there for everyone to see.


You're a damn idiot, because you're
A. putting words in people's mouths
and
B. Denying minors' rights under the second amendment exist.  Minors can be armed, just not at farking school.  Because it's a school.
 
2014-02-10 04:36:52 PM

AngryDragon: ikanreed: If you've never been in a situation in high school where you'd escalate to shooting another student if you had a gun, you've never gone through puberty

I've never heard anyone suggest arming high school students.  In fact, it's a felony in all 50 states for a minor to be in possession of a firearm.


Oh Rly?
The VC started AK-47 training at nine. ARVN at 16.
My personal, I actually saw it, record.
Nine years old, with better discipline that the entire LAPD.
 
2014-02-10 04:40:37 PM

Mell of a Hess: rkiller1: Mell of a Hess: rkiller1: Coconice: Well, I had hoped that this thread would be funny instead of annoying.

People willing to make multiple posts are clearly not too busy to substantiate their position.

Whether you're liberal or conservative, the whole "I'm right because things" argument makes me want to add you to my ignore list.

I'm just too afraid you'll say something funny or smart in a different thread.

People get worked-up over gun things.  It's almost as if a gun were a metaphor for penis.

Yeah, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

[assets.nydailynews.com image 635x425]

Heh.  The guy in the background is laughing because Bill is pulling up the back of her dress.


I wonder if that "A" on her badge was scarlet?
 
2014-02-10 04:40:53 PM

Callous: I was referring to that crap about us advocating the arming of minors because we didn't proactively deny it.


How did you feel about the post I was responding to that claimed a gun is the ONLY way to resist or fight back?  Did you feel that was "crap" too?  Or was that legit?
 
2014-02-10 04:48:31 PM

demaL-demaL-yeH: LessO2: Just a sad reminder how everything boil downs to crossing our fingers that your kid doesn't get shot at school.

More likely events:
run over crossing the street.
hit while riding a bicycle.
struck by lightning.

What does making it legal for random armed idiots to walk into schools do to that probability?


Maybe it increases the chances of being struck by lightning, if you're carrying more metal.
 
2014-02-10 04:49:06 PM

ferretman: Mell of a Hess: LessO2: Just a sad reminder that the media is swinging us back and forth like a cat strapped to a tether ball.
[media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com image 331x400]


They said felony, not feline!
 
2014-02-10 04:59:09 PM

HotWingConspiracy: Dimensio: YixilTesiphon: HotWingConspiracy: Mr. Eugenides: HotWingConspiracy: In this thread, dullards will employ bumper sticker wisdom to show the world they can't understand the utility of a gun free zone.

Surely you meant to type futility, not utility.

Nope. They work as intended.

Sending people who haven't harmed others to jail, while doing nothing about those who intend to cause harm?

You are correct. HotWindConspiracy is unconcerned with reducing violent crime.

Nonsense, I'm fully in favor of neutering those that traffic and trade in weapons used in violent crime.

 The only worthwhile firearm laws are those that cause inconvenience to lawful firearm owners; whether violence is affected is immaterial. If, somehow, a firearm regulation caused an increase in violent incidents yet still substantially inconvenienced firearm owners, HotWingConspiracy would consider the regulation to be worthwhile.

As the news tells us daily, today's responsible gun owner is tomorrow's family killer/office slayer. It's just a shame that gun owners turn out to be irresponsible people so often. We've tried to work with them.


It is estimated that in the United States, there are about 43 million to 55 million gun owners.  31,672 people were killed by guns in the US in 2010 (19,392 of those were suicides).  Even including suicides, that makes the percentage of gun owners who take a life (not including self defense) at .073% (less than 1 tenth of 1 percent), assuming only 43 million gun owners.  So, tell me again how "gun owners so often turn out to be irresponsible".

Herpaderp, indeed.
 
2014-02-10 05:00:28 PM

mdeesnuts: I don't think it was students SAFE was aimed at. Did someone say students should be able to carry guns on campus?

/because that would be dumb


Happened every day during hunting season when I was in high school (1980s).  Nearly every boy who hunted had a hunting rifle in his vehicle so he could hunt for an hour or two before school and then go back into the woods after school.

I knew several who had to go see the principal for tardiness because they had to drop a deer off at the meat processor on the way to school.

Gun related body count for my high school career: 0
 
2014-02-10 05:01:49 PM

ikanreed: Callous: HotWingConspiracy:


What I really love is the people that biatch about these laws the most are the reason they were enacted in the first place.

Please explain.  Are you making the gun owners equivalent of the "all men are rapists because they have a penis" argument?

You are sounding more and more like you just have an irrational fear of guns and attribute all kinds of bad traits on anyone that owns one.

1.  You look like an idiot.  Disallowing guns on school grounds is about lowering a simple risk factor without pretending it'll stop the most driven school shootings.  If you've never been in a situation in high school where you'd escalate to shooting another student if you had a gun, you've never gone through puberty.

It's not farking complicated, and you guys are really dumb about it.


I think maybe you should consult a therapist. I had guns when I was in high school. The thought of using one to kill someone I had a disagreement with never occurred to me.
 
2014-02-10 05:02:05 PM
From a followup article, defending the fellow:
"Dwayne probably was in a position to help the police ..."

Oh, so any armed good guy in school is in a position to help the police? Then there should be more.
 
2014-02-10 05:02:32 PM

Seraphym: you can't use logic to convince a person to abandon a conclusion they arrived at illogically


That's so good, I'm gonna steal it, use as if I invented it, and not give you any credit.
Cheers!
 
2014-02-10 05:03:34 PM

Itstoearly: It is estimated that in the United States, there are about 43 million to 55 million gun owners. 31,672 people were killed by guns in the US in 2010 (19,392 of those were suicides). Even including suicides, that makes the percentage of gun owners who take a life (not including self defense) at .073% (less than 1 tenth of 1 percent), assuming only 43 million gun owners. So, tell me again how "gun owners so often turn out to be irresponsible".


The very best statistic you could think of to measure the number of irresponsible gun owners is gun deaths?

Itstoearly: Herpaderp, indeed.


Indeed.
 
2014-02-10 05:06:12 PM

EatenTheSun: The thought of using one to kill someone I had a disagreement with never occurred to me.


You never thought it, therefore no one ever does.  Seems legit.
 
2014-02-10 05:11:07 PM

The water was cold: "Local community organizer" -- stopped caring right there.


Do you know who else was a "community organizer"?

media-cache-cd0.pinimg.com
 
2014-02-10 05:11:23 PM
Typical liberal.... he doesn't want YOU to have something..... but it's ok for HIM and his ilk to.
 
2014-02-10 05:12:33 PM

lennavan: EatenTheSun: The thought of using one to kill someone I had a disagreement with never occurred to me.

You never thought it, therefore no one ever does.  Seems legit.


No one sane does.
 
2014-02-10 05:13:02 PM

ikanreed: Callous: I was referring to that crap about us advocating the arming of minors because we didn't proactively deny it. I know you are trying to sweep that under the rug but it's there for everyone to see.

You're a damn idiot, because you're
A. putting words in people's mouths
and
B. Denying minors' rights under the second amendment exist.  Minors can be armed, just not at farking school.  Because it's a school.


There is a huge difference between possessing and carrying.  Check it out.

lennavan: Callous: I was referring to that crap about us advocating the arming of minors because we didn't proactively deny it.

How did you feel about the post I was responding to that claimed a gun is the ONLY way to resist or fight back?  Did you feel that was "crap" too?  Or was that legit?


It's not the only way.  It's probably the best way, but when stupid laws deny you the best way you have to come with others.
 
2014-02-10 05:13:43 PM

EatenTheSun: lennavan: EatenTheSun: The thought of using one to kill someone I had a disagreement with never occurred to me.

You never thought it, therefore no one ever does.  Seems legit.

No one sane does.


Teenagers are well known for being sane, indeed even logical.
 
2014-02-10 05:14:00 PM

lennavan: EatenTheSun: The thought of using one to kill someone I had a disagreement with never occurred to me.

You never thought it, therefore no one ever does.  Seems legit.


You're the one that suggested that everyone has.
 
2014-02-10 05:15:02 PM

Mell of a Hess: ikanreed:  the 2nd amendment ... it's completely outdated, and its advocates don't understand it.

It's in place so that the citizens can rise up against a tyrannical government.



Let's see:
Constitution says ...  BZZZZZZZZZZZT!
To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

Keep farking that chicken, though:  Sedition is still a felony.
 
2014-02-10 05:16:46 PM

Callous: lennavan: EatenTheSun: The thought of using one to kill someone I had a disagreement with never occurred to me.

You never thought it, therefore no one ever does.  Seems legit.

You're the one that suggested that everyone has.


By all means, quote where I suggested everyone has thought to use a gun to kill someone else.

Quote it.
 
2014-02-10 05:17:43 PM

lennavan: Teenagers are well known for being sane, indeed even logical.


Yeah, every teenager comes out of high school an alcoholic drug addict with a violent crime record and a kid.

Look, at least you know you're a sociopath who'd shoot someone as soon as you held a gun, and kudos to you for restraining yourself. But the vast majority of people aren't like you.
 
2014-02-10 05:19:11 PM

EatenTheSun: lennavan: EatenTheSun: The thought of using one to kill someone I had a disagreement with never occurred to me.

You never thought it, therefore no one ever does.  Seems legit.

No one sane does.


The whole problem would be solved if you just make insanity illegal.

Umm, If insanity were legal, no
If only criminals were insane, no
If sanity were common, no

Fool me twice and be done with it.
 
2014-02-10 05:19:18 PM
i1211.photobucket.com
 
2014-02-10 05:19:27 PM

ikanreed: Callous: HotWingConspiracy:
 

1.  You look like an idiot.  Disallowing guns on school grounds is about lowering a simple risk factor without pretending it'll stop the most driven school shootings.  If you've never been in a situation in high school where you'd escalate to shooting another student if you had a gun, you've never gone through puberty.



If you are banning guns and don't see a drop in gun crimes at schools, then you are the one who looks like an idiot.

All you have succeeded in doing is feeling better about yourself.   You won a participation ribbon!
 
2014-02-10 05:19:45 PM

ikanreed: That would not work, not under any strategic scenario.


So I take it you never criticized the Iraq occupation?
 
2014-02-10 05:20:59 PM

Nutsac_Jim: If you are banning guns and don't see a drop in gun crimes at schools, then you are the one who looks like an idiot.


You do.  The end.  The rest of this babble of yours is dumb.
 
2014-02-10 05:21:52 PM

Callous: lennavan: Callous: I was referring to that crap about us advocating the arming of minors because we didn't proactively deny it.

How did you feel about the post I was responding to that claimed a gun is the ONLY way to resist or fight back? Did you feel that was "crap" too? Or was that legit?

It's not the only way.


So it was stupid, I agree.  Would you suggest perhaps, so stupid it's worthy of mockery?  Great, now re-read the stupid that he posted:

Mell of a Hess: they notify people who wish to do harm to others that, if they're carrying a gun in a gun free zone, then they should not fear any immediate reprisal or resistance?


Hah, yeah that was really goddamn stupid.  We could refute his point but honestly, someone posting something that fundamentally stupid isn't utilizing their brain, so we'd just be wasting our time.  I see no point in wasting time putting together a well thought out reply if he didn't even bother to spend 5 seconds formulating his original thought.  Let's just go with sarcastic mockery:

lennavan: No, he had a good point. Before gun free zone laws, shooters went into the pre-kindergarten rooms worried which one of those toddlers might be packing. Now, without a gun, there is literally no way to resist or fight back. Not a single way.


Haha toddlers packing heat.  Yeah, that Mell of a Hess guy had a stupid post.
 
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