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(BetaNews)   Windows 8.1 release update called, "A Frankenstein product stitched together with compromises." Considering the press Microsoft usually gets that's like a compliment. You might start seeing that phrase in their ads   (betanews.com) divider line 340
    More: Followup, Windows, Microsoft, Windows 8.1, Frankenstein, Frankenstein product, Windows Store, Start Button, compromises  
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10163 clicks; posted to Business » on 10 Feb 2014 at 10:45 AM (40 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



340 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-02-10 11:47:51 AM  

Sharksfan: The learning curve from XP to 7 is negligible.  From 7 > 8 is just hard enough that people like DO NOT WANT to do it, period.  They are smart and capable, but they are also focused elsewhere.


Let alone supporting an endless stream of "should have retired 20 years ago" types and "never wanted to use a computer" ex-Kindergarten teachers.

Look, I'm a geek.  I've successfully used more computer interfaces than years I've been alive.  100 flavors of CP/M, GEOS, Amigas, WinNT 3.5, SGI IRIX, dead mobile platforms etc, etc.  And, on that broader picture, Windows 8 (Metro and all) is perfectly fine for me. I do what I need to with it.

About half of the "non-geek" computer world came in over Win95/98, about half have never really used anything but XP.  Any change you make to them has to be a lot more gradual than the 7->8 change was.
 
2014-02-10 11:48:03 AM  

Rabid Badger Beaver Weasel: xanadian: If my OS starts screaming "FIREFOX BAD," I'm downgrading.

[www.thecampuscompanion.com image 700x375]


The Startup Screen plays "Putting on the Ritz".
 
2014-02-10 11:48:56 AM  

PluckYew: Egoy3k: DanZero: Not too much hate on 8.

It's your operating system. It will find some way to annoy you eventually.


Why the Windows 8 haters want to have an outdated UI option that nobody should be using anymore anyway is a mystery to me.

The start menu  uses less than 30% of the screen for a task that is pretty much always a quick uni-tasking activity.  You click the menu find what you want in tightly fitted text and small icons open it and the start menudisappears.

Metro is a full screen start menu that displays live data and larger icons that are easily found and clicked on quickly.

Then again who bothers witheither? Just hit the windows key and type the first three letters of the name of what you want.

Who the fark are you?  What are you a 12 year old?   They put all the relevant tools in one place, conditioned us for 20 years to look in that place and it the next instance of the OS took it away.  Those of us in the Enterprise, don't have time to relearn how to use our goddamn tools.

If you want to provide a "new" interface (which nobody cares about) at least leave the functionality of the old interface.
fark MS, I'll be waiting for Windows 9, if it's Metrofied, they can EABOD


Exactly

Revolutionary changes have always pushed customers away. This is something very common in the computer world. The Mac was a flop for a few years and the IBM XT pretty much showed that IBM no longer commanded the PC market. Windows 8 would not have been that bad if it was a slow evolution to Metro over several releases. Microsoft should have introduced a metro-like start menu to introduce us to the new interface.
 
2014-02-10 11:51:05 AM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: Marine1: demaL-demaL-yeH: Marine1: More time has been spent biatching about Windows 8's interface than has been lost in productivity due to the interface.

With the genius at Microsoft who crammed that ribbon in Office down people's throats admitting that the new Windows interface costs days to weeks of productivity, that might not be a safe bet.

Except I've been using it on all of my systems for the last few months and I haven't had any problems that couldn't be solved by a quick Google (or Bing) search.

Learning how to use Windows 8 requires the skill set of a guy who gets paid $2.50/hour in a call center in India that takes help desk questions. That's it. If you can't figure it out after that, you're an incompetent computer user. It takes less time to get used to than Linux. End of story. Moving on.

Your personal anecdote != the head of Windows development admitting that it loses productivity.
/Not to mention that you just admitted that you lost productivity, too.


Everyone does whenever they encounter a new software product.
 
2014-02-10 11:51:43 AM  

cman: Revolutionary changes have always pushed customers away.


I'm not sure what's supposed to be revolutionary about the UI, though.  It's just bad, not like, bad but solving a problem we weren't aware existed.
 
2014-02-10 11:52:08 AM  

OtherLittleGuy: The Startup Screen plays "Putting on the Ritz".


I blame Gary Cooper.
 
2014-02-10 11:52:19 AM  
I'm currently running Win 8.1 at the office and on a personal laptop.  Granted on both systems I'm running VMWare and have plenty of other OSes running, but in my opinion the 8.0 to 8.1 transition made the operating system more usable but it still sucks to use.

The missing traditional "Programs" menu, especially with how Windows 7 handled it is the biggest feature that I'm missing. I typically use the same programs most of the time, but especially at work I go through phases with other programs, so having the list of "recently used" programs, plus with Office Applications then breaking into recent documents just a couple of clicks away was great.  I found that I could pin the application launcher to the taskbar in Win8.1 and right click to get a much shorter list of recent documents than 7 had available, but I like to try to have a clean desktop so having all of the Office icons pinned to the task area drives me crazy especially for the ones that I rarely use except to verify documents for staff.
 
2014-02-10 11:53:15 AM  

Telos: In other words "it's different so it's bad, I want the exact same thing as before. Change is bad." Sorry, but the old start menu sucked horribly. The new start menu (aka Metro Desktop) is much better in that you don't have to sort through tiny folders to find what you want, and even if you don't see it you can type to search.


No, it's different because it takes away all context while launching another app. What was I doing last? What am I doing here again? It takes the brain a few more seconds to figure out what it was up to last and it's just a nuisance. A brain fart. If it launched in from the side and provided analogous functionality (which does not mean identical behaviour) as start menu then this wouldn't happen.
 
2014-02-10 11:53:37 AM  
cdn.unwire.hk
 
2014-02-10 11:54:00 AM  

Begoggle: I'm still running MicroSoft BOB


Ahh yes, from back in the days when I had herpes AOL dialup.
 
2014-02-10 11:54:18 AM  

kdogg73: [cdn.unwire.hk image 600x450]


Well, there goes my afternoon.
 
2014-02-10 11:54:30 AM  

LineNoise: Carn: Win+r mstsc.  I think it still has the old run, need to verify on other machine.

Oh, yea, I know, like I said there are plenty of ways of doing it, but they defeat the point of the whole new UI when you want the default behavior of an app to work differently than it does out of the box (even when its an app that would make sense to default a different way).

I think they will get it right with some polish, but the point is in here. It isn't that the windows 8 UI is bad. Most of the examples people tout out are outright wrong, or, like me, they just need to spend 5 minutes to figure out how you do something the new way vs how it worked in 7, and people don't want to do that.

If you are someone who runs office, a browser, and a couple of games, the start menu is fine for you, and I get that. But if you suddenly have a brazillion apps on your desktop, which is what happens when you introduce the app store and the like, it starts getting to be a clunky way of organizing stuff. Tiles and a robust search make sense. They just need to figure out a middle ground of sorts


Yeah I'm with you, on my home machine I can avoid running widgets thankfully so the couple of times I had to switch between them I was only horribly annoyed for a few seconds.  I run vms at work and always have multiple terminal sessions like you so we'll see how enraged this will make me on a daily basis.  I'm not sure MS will ever get it 100% right.  Win7 was pretty close.  The biggest annoyance when it first came out was how intrusive the User Access Control box was.  Every time you did anything "is this ok is that ok can I rub your back?" which they toned down after the service packs.  Now they tried to help their non-existent mobile share but cocking up the desktop user experience.  You'd think they would have learned this lesson already with all of the major OS failures they've had but whatever.  I guess the safe bet will always be not to get any Microsoft product until sp1, maybe even sp2 these days.
 
2014-02-10 11:56:10 AM  

Marine1: Except I've been using it on all of my systems for the last few months and I haven't had any problems that couldn't be solved by a quick Google (or Bing) search.


Shill like typing detected?  Seriously, nobody really uses Bing, come on now.  I don't even use Google myself any more (directly) but it's exceedingly rare that I'll run out of enough options to have to use Bing.

(But it's okay I guess.  Just as many privacy issues, search is about 40% as good as Google, but I think they're still using those ridiculous full page backgrounds.)

/I know it powers other search engines too
/I spend time in Vista, 7, 8, OSX, and various Linuxen, and frankly XP works more smoothly than any of them.  Really.  Smaller is better.
 
2014-02-10 11:57:58 AM  

exparrot: The incongruity I find most annoying is the 'PC Settings' function that is only available as a metro app. Why the fark are the very same settings not available through control panel?

My metro apps were broken due to a microsoft store/account problem. The only way to edit was via PC Settings, which is a metro app ONLY. goto 10. arggggg.


That is what we call "a show stopper"

It sounds like a good reason for Microsoft to stop trying to ram Metro down people's throats and take a step back. Ideally, the settings should all be doable from the command line, but since the original Windows 1.0, the control panel has "just worked" so it has not been an issue. Moving one of the most important parts of the OS to a chunk of code that can break is inexcusable.
 
2014-02-10 11:58:47 AM  

Marine1: demaL-demaL-yeH: Marine1: demaL-demaL-yeH: Marine1: More time has been spent biatching about Windows 8's interface than has been lost in productivity due to the interface.

With the genius at Microsoft who crammed that ribbon in Office down people's throats admitting that the new Windows interface costs days to weeks of productivity, that might not be a safe bet.

Except I've been using it on all of my systems for the last few months and I haven't had any problems that couldn't be solved by a quick Google (or Bing) search.

Learning how to use Windows 8 requires the skill set of a guy who gets paid $2.50/hour in a call center in India that takes help desk questions. That's it. If you can't figure it out after that, you're an incompetent computer user. It takes less time to get used to than Linux. End of story. Moving on.

Your personal anecdote != the head of Windows development admitting that it loses productivity.
/Not to mention that you just admitted that you lost productivity, too.

Everyone does whenever they encounter a new software product.


Yeah.
Which is why the most jarring thing about moving from OSX 10.1 to OSX 10.9 is mouse gestures, and you can still use a farking one-button mouse the same way.
Right.
And why phones, tablets, and MP3 players all work the same way.

Slam Apple all you want, but their HCI continuity is farking impressive.
 
2014-02-10 11:59:56 AM  

kdogg73: [cdn.unwire.hk image 600x450]


That making-popcorn like noise is a temple-based blood vessels of everyone who's ever dealt with a pre high speed internet based MSDN subscription.
 
2014-02-10 12:00:01 PM  
Hipsters dual-boot Commodore 64 and Windows for Workgroups 3.11 emulators on their brand-new desktops.
 
2014-02-10 12:00:46 PM  

Marine1: What I don't get is the idea of constantly kowtowing down to the lowest common denominator in everything related to software design even when it means not advancing a product in a meaningful way to take advantage of the most recent innovations in the field.


I don't get a couple of things:

1) Why you're white knighting Microsoft when they themselves have admitted their farkup. They aren't going to sleep with you.
2) Why you don't seem to have any clue that a design is to promote usability, not complexity. What was it do you think was broken about the previous Windows UI that Metro "fixed"?
 
2014-02-10 12:01:51 PM  

Marine1: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Carn:
My laptop I got this fall came with 8.1 and the first thing I did was disable most of the Metro stuff and turn on classic.  This article writer sounds like a noob.

And that's where MS has failed. The common user is a noob, and does not want to, or know how to work around to get rid of the Metro stuff.
Sure, it's easy for me to install classic shell. Not so much for my older relatives that just want to turn on their new computer, and see something that is familiar to them.

I get that the average user is an idiot. 

What I don't get is the idea of constantly kowtowing down to the lowest common denominator in everything related to software design even when it means not advancing a product in a meaningful way to take advantage of the most recent innovations in the field.

Windows 8.x is perfectly usable. 8 was alright; 8.1 is good.

If you cannot figure out a few small changes in the user interface (and it's just that... small), you are screwed as a computer user. Period. If you don't like Windows 8, and switch to OS X or Linux, you'll find yourself spending more time installing and preparing the machine than it would have taken to figure out Windows 8. This gets more true as your level of experience with computers decreases, so that noob you're talking about needs to stop being such a noob and take 15 minutes out of his/her day to figure out the answers to a few questions.


Stop sucking MicroSoft's dick they, won't come in your face. I work in a company with 32,000 and, I don't have time to reteach them all. There is a simple fix to to make Win8 usable

1. Right click on Desktop
2. Personalization
3. Windows Classic theme
 
2014-02-10 12:02:37 PM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: Marine1: demaL-demaL-yeH: Marine1: More time has been spent biatching about Windows 8's interface than has been lost in productivity due to the interface.

With the genius at Microsoft who crammed that ribbon in Office down people's throats admitting that the new Windows interface costs days to weeks of productivity, that might not be a safe bet.

Except I've been using it on all of my systems for the last few months and I haven't had any problems that couldn't be solved by a quick Google (or Bing) search.

Learning how to use Windows 8 requires the skill set of a guy who gets paid $2.50/hour in a call center in India that takes help desk questions. That's it. If you can't figure it out after that, you're an incompetent computer user. It takes less time to get used to than Linux. End of story. Moving on.

Your personal anecdote != the head of Windows development admitting that it loses productivity.
/Not to mention that you just admitted that you lost productivity, too.


Nail...Head

Why the fark would I need to Bing anything for basic OS operation?  I've been using Windows for more than 20 years.  fark Win 8, 8.1, 8.x it's a shiatshow.
 
2014-02-10 12:03:18 PM  

Nick Nostril: Begoggle: I'm still running MicroSoft BOB

Ahh yes, from back in the days when I had herpes AOL dialup.


i.imgur.com

We've noticed your AOL subscription has lapsed. Is there a problem with the software itself? I'm empowered to offer you a month of free service today in recognition of the work you've put into helping us improve our user experience...
 
2014-02-10 12:03:43 PM  
I really, really hope that by the time I'm forced to a work laptop with a new version of Windows, it has progressed, or maybe regressed, to something more like Win 7.  I just can't take another Microsoft crap OS.
 
2014-02-10 12:03:55 PM  

RedPhoenix122: d23: [www.extremetech.com image 348x196]

I need to install SteamOS on my other partition sometime.


Don't bother for a while. It's called an alpha for a reason.

SteamOS needs a couple years at least in the oven yet.
 
2014-02-10 12:04:22 PM  

SurfaceTension: xanadian: If my OS starts screaming "FIREFOX BAD," I'm downgrading.

I bought a new laptop over the weekend with Windows 8, and had zero problems installing Firefox (along with add-ons: xmarks, ad block plus, no script, and flash block)


I had the same experience. It also loads Chrome and its add-ons without a problem (we use Chromecast). Actually, for my purposes, I haven't really had any difficulties since the 8.1 upgrade. I work from Desktop. It's easy to get there. I pin what I need to the Desktop bar. The icon for the menu screen is enough like start that even Mr. H., who is non-techy and hates change, can use the system with ease. You can also right-click the Start Menu icon for a list of common operations, including Shutdown and Restart.
 
2014-02-10 12:05:29 PM  

Unobtanium: In other words, they still don't get it. I have a touch-enabled laptop, and I do not use the touchscreen. I installed Classic Shell and have not looked back.


I donated $100 to classicshell.net, just because I have so many older clients that got rid of their XP units, bought a Win8 desktop, and lost their farking MINDS. With good reason, MS decided to push a tablet interface on them with NO INSTRUCTIONS, just because they were desperate to gain mobile market share.

They call me, I go over there, install Classic Shell, and teach them the magic "go home" Windows key on the keyboard. THAT'S IT. They're farking happy again! They have a Start menu that they're used to, and a way to get back to the desktop in any situation. They write me a check, and everyone's dancing in the streets!

Why couldn't MS do this? Wait, I just answered my question above.

Marine1: demaL-demaL-yeH: Marine1: More time has been spent biatching about Windows 8's interface than has been lost in productivity due to the interface.

With the genius at Microsoft who crammed that ribbon in Office down people's throats admitting that the new Windows interface costs days to weeks of productivity, that might not be a safe bet.

Except I've been using it on all of my systems for the last few months and I haven't had any problems that couldn't be solved by a quick Google (or Bing) search.

Learning how to use Windows 8 requires the skill set of a guy who gets paid $2.50/hour in a call center in India that takes help desk questions. That's it. If you can't figure it out after that, you're an incompetent computer user. It takes less time to get used to than Linux. End of story. Moving on.


Wow, everyone should be that savvy! You don't deal with everyday computer users, you're 733T because you use Linux! Those great unwashed out there should just leave computing to real men like you! You're biatchEN!!!
 
2014-02-10 12:06:11 PM  

Carousel Beast: Why you don't seem to have any clue that a design is to promote usability, not complexity. What was it do you think was broken about the previous Windows UI that Metro "fixed"?


High/low on a response along the lines of resolving a proper touch interface ecosystem which just doubles down on a system no one wants for a sit down desktop experience in the first place.
 
2014-02-10 12:07:00 PM  

nekom: My long standing "every other version" policy has never failed me.  XP was great.  7 is fantastic!  8 can go to hell.  Can't wait for the next one.


Outside of the hideous metro interface I'm having about the same positive experience with 8 that I had with 7. I just built a new gaming machine last month, and I had been planning on using 7, but had driver issues with the brand new hardware... so I upgraded to 8 (I bought Win 8 Pro on a promotion MS ran last year for $40) and everything works flawlessly now.

But I don't see much of a compelling reason to upgrade from 7 if your hardware isn't so new that you have issues like I did. Once you check the right options and install Classic Shell or something Win 8's experience is pretty much the same as 7's... except on 7 you don't have to do all that stuff to make it desktop friendly again. Metro SUCKS on a desktop. It just annoyed and frustrated me... so I got rid of it. They would be smart to understand that the UI which works on a tablet or other touchscreen won't be as good on a desktop.
 
2014-02-10 12:08:11 PM  
I run three monitors under Win 7, with a half-dozen apps running simultaneously. Work great in Win7. Anybody doing something similar in Win 8?
 
2014-02-10 12:08:48 PM  

nekom: My long standing "every other version" policy has never failed me.  XP was great.  7 is fantastic!  8 can go to hell.  Can't wait for the next one.


Sadly, this is quite true.

95 was junk (I missed out on 3.11), 98 was much better. ME was a joke and XP was worth the wait. Vista, as a very later adopter was fine, but 7 was and still is better.

The craptop I'm using right now came with 8 and I promptly downgraded to 7. If I want a touch-screen experience, I'll play with my phone.
 
2014-02-10 12:09:20 PM  

mokinokaro: Don't bother for a while. It's called an alpha for a reason.

SteamOS needs a couple years at least in the oven yet.


Yes, but like all things open source, the community has vastly improved it.  Gonna check out Ye Olde SteamOSe.
 
2014-02-10 12:09:33 PM  
Windows 7 is awesome. Not sure about 8, it's probably just different enough to be annoying. My Mom figured it out.

This weekend I plugged an older HP OfficeJet into my LAN. Tried to install the printer on my Macbook: "what printer?". Tried to install it on my W7 laptop: "You mean the HP 6300 series?" Y. "Drivers installed. Print Test Page?" Y. Test page prints out.

I used the W7 configuration info to manually install the printer on my Mac.

"It just works, except when it doesn't".
 
2014-02-10 12:09:35 PM  

Far Cough: Marine1: Except I've been using it on all of my systems for the last few months and I haven't had any problems that couldn't be solved by a quick Google (or Bing) search.

Shill like typing detected?  Seriously, nobody really uses Bing, come on now.  I don't even use Google myself any more (directly) but it's exceedingly rare that I'll run out of enough options to have to use Bing.

(But it's okay I guess.  Just as many privacy issues, search is about 40% as good as Google, but I think they're still using those ridiculous full page backgrounds.)

/I know it powers other search engines too
/I spend time in Vista, 7, 8, OSX, and various Linuxen, and frankly XP works more smoothly than any of them.  Really.  Smaller is better.


I occasionally type the queries on things I don't get into the search charm. It's Bing. Other times, I use my phone, which is a Nokia Lumia. Also Bing. Most of the time, I use Google, though.

Carousel Beast: Marine1: What I don't get is the idea of constantly kowtowing down to the lowest common denominator in everything related to software design even when it means not advancing a product in a meaningful way to take advantage of the most recent innovations in the field.

I don't get a couple of things:

1) Why you're white knighting Microsoft when they themselves have admitted their farkup. They aren't going to sleep with you.
2) Why you don't seem to have any clue that a design is to promote usability, not complexity. What was it do you think was broken about the previous Windows UI that Metro "fixed"?


1) They're "admitting" their fark-up because no one will give it a damn rest. The tech press (and Fark headlines) are notorious for never giving Microsoft the benefit of the doubt on  anything. They screw up, but Metro wasn't one of their screwups.
2) Using it on a touchscreen, which is a desired feature of most devices today. All of those things "replacing" PCs have them. Sticking with the traditional user interface on such a product would have meant death for Windows, because Windows 7 was a PITA to use on a touchscreen or with any touch interface. Windows 8 is not as much of a PITA to use on a traditional KVM setup as Windows 7 was on a touchscreen. Once you get used to it, like anything else, it's actually better. No more guiding your cursor through a tiny channel in a dropdown menu to get to a program. No more hunting through a list of items in 12-point font in a scrollbox to get to your program folder. No more dead space on the desktop sitting there doing nothing when it could be displaying information.
 
2014-02-10 12:15:22 PM  

RedPhoenix122: Animatronik: The problem with the new windows is that for basic desktop or laptop use, the learning curve is not rewarded with increased functionality or ease of use, meaning that I would gladly switch back to Win 7.

On my TV, I prefer windows 8.1, but not by a huge margin. I can see that everything is headed in the direction ofhaving to be online at all times. I am starting to wonder though, if there is a new opportunity for Linux here as Microsoft tries to steer people toward more costly services and hardware.

Of course somebody says that every few years and is proven wrong because MS rules the business markets. That will continue for now.

The other side of that is because there's been no big corporate push for Linux, so it gets swept under the table.  I'm hoping SteamOS can at least take a small chunk of the market share.


I'd happily try out steam OS. I already run dual boot on a laptop and desktop. On the laptop it works great and I use Ubuntu more than windows for just about all routine stuff. On the desktop I never use linux, which is on a separate drive, and mostly use win 8.1,but Id gladly replace that with steam os if I could.
 
2014-02-10 12:16:51 PM  

kdogg73: [cdn.unwire.hk image 600x450]


LOL 3,711 disks.

CygnusDarius: kdogg73: [cdn.unwire.hk image 600x450]

Well, there goes my afternoon.


Pretty accurate if you assume 5 seconds between disk changes, that would be just over 4 hours. Have floppy drives gotten any faster recently?
 
2014-02-10 12:17:25 PM  

RedPhoenix122: mokinokaro: Don't bother for a while. It's called an alpha for a reason.

SteamOS needs a couple years at least in the oven yet.

Yes, but like all things open source, the community has vastly improved it.  Gonna check out Ye Olde SteamOSe.


Again no. It's not worth running at all yet.

Valve massively locked it down to ease testing so unless you're an extreme Linux power user you won't be able to do much with it.
 
2014-02-10 12:18:00 PM  

Marine1: Far Cough: Marine1: Except I've been using it on all of my systems for the last few months and I haven't had any problems that couldn't be solved by a quick Google (or Bing) search.

Shill like typing detected?  Seriously, nobody really uses Bing, come on now.  I don't even use Google myself any more (directly) but it's exceedingly rare that I'll run out of enough options to have to use Bing.

(But it's okay I guess.  Just as many privacy issues, search is about 40% as good as Google, but I think they're still using those ridiculous full page backgrounds.)

/I know it powers other search engines too
/I spend time in Vista, 7, 8, OSX, and various Linuxen, and frankly XP works more smoothly than any of them.  Really.  Smaller is better.

I occasionally type the queries on things I don't get into the search charm. It's Bing. Other times, I use my phone, which is a Nokia Lumia. Also Bing. Most of the time, I use Google, though.

Carousel Beast: Marine1: What I don't get is the idea of constantly kowtowing down to the lowest common denominator in everything related to software design even when it means not advancing a product in a meaningful way to take advantage of the most recent innovations in the field.

I don't get a couple of things:

1) Why you're white knighting Microsoft when they themselves have admitted their farkup. They aren't going to sleep with you.
2) Why you don't seem to have any clue that a design is to promote usability, not complexity. What was it do you think was broken about the previous Windows UI that Metro "fixed"?

1) They're "admitting" their fark-up because no one will give it a damn rest. The tech press (and Fark headlines) are notorious for never giving Microsoft the benefit of the doubt on  anything. They screw up, but Metro wasn't one of their screwups.
2) Using it on a touchscreen, which is a desired feature of most devices today. All of those things "replacing" PCs have them. Sticking with the traditional user interface on such a produc ...


Speaking as an IE11 convert, you are full of shiat
 
2014-02-10 12:18:48 PM  

loaba: nekom: My long standing "every other version" policy has never failed me.  XP was great.  7 is fantastic!  8 can go to hell.  Can't wait for the next one.

Sadly, this is quite true.

95 was junk (I missed out on 3.11), 98 was much better. ME was a joke and XP was worth the wait. Vista, as a very later adopter was fine, but 7 was and still is better.

The craptop I'm using right now came with 8 and I promptly downgraded to 7. If I want a touch-screen experience, I'll play with my phone.



8 actually adds a number of OS tweaks that are nice compared to 7.  Explorer and Task Manager come to mind as being nicely upgraded.  It's a bit faster loading too.

I don't get the 8 hate.  I came in with 8.1 so I boot to desktop, but the start pages don't bother me, especially after watching the "who moved my cheese" video.  And in multi-monitor, 8.1 is a huge upgrade.

I do have a touchscreen and its great in presentation situations.  I had a meeting with a client the other day (an architect) and we were flipping through slides and images with it.  It's much more graceful and a crowd pleaser for sure.

I'm sure Apple will eventually give in and put a touchscreen on the macbook and everyone will ooh and ahh about how amazing it is.
 
2014-02-10 12:19:47 PM  

Animatronik: RedPhoenix122: Animatronik: The problem with the new windows is that for basic desktop or laptop use, the learning curve is not rewarded with increased functionality or ease of use, meaning that I would gladly switch back to Win 7.

On my TV, I prefer windows 8.1, but not by a huge margin. I can see that everything is headed in the direction ofhaving to be online at all times. I am starting to wonder though, if there is a new opportunity for Linux here as Microsoft tries to steer people toward more costly services and hardware.

Of course somebody says that every few years and is proven wrong because MS rules the business markets. That will continue for now.

The other side of that is because there's been no big corporate push for Linux, so it gets swept under the table.  I'm hoping SteamOS can at least take a small chunk of the market share.

I'd happily try out steam OS. I already run dual boot on a laptop and desktop. On the laptop it works great and I use Ubuntu more than windows for just about all routine stuff. On the desktop I never use linux, which is on a separate drive, and mostly use win 8.1,but Id gladly replace that with steam os if I could.


Also, one positive for Win8.1: it's the easiest OS install I've ever done, on my Frankenstein homebuilt hardware, and runs pretty flawlessly. I like running it on my TV. I wouldn't like it on my nontouch laptop simply because I like the win7 interface better for that. So even with Steam OS dual booting capability I'd continue to use Windows.
 
2014-02-10 12:22:12 PM  

Marine1: Using it on a touchscreen, which is a desired feature of most devices today. All of those things "replacing" PCs have them. Sticking with the traditional user interface on such a product would have meant death for Windows, because Windows 7 was a PITA to use on a touchscreen or with any touch interface. Windows 8 is not as much of a PITA to use on a traditional KVM setup as Windows 7 was on a touchscreen. Once you get used to it, like anything else, it's actually better. No more guiding your cursor through a tiny channel in a dropdown menu to get to a program. No more hunting through a list of items in 12-point font in a scrollbox to get to your program folder. No more dead space on the desktop sitting there doing nothing when it could be displaying information.



Using a touchscreen - is fine on a portable device that is primarily used for content consumption. In a home desktop/laptop installation, when I'm working with a real keyboard and a mouse etc, then no, it's not fine. When I'm working and creating content, I'm not touching my screen.

Sticking with a tradition interface - ON A MOBILE PLATFORM - would have indeed meant death for Windows. Metro on my smart phone? Sure. Maybe. If Android starts to suck (which it won't), I'll think about it.

MS was late to mobile party (they've never had a decent mobile OS) and their desktop users are paying the price for that now.
 
2014-02-10 12:23:44 PM  

beerdini: I'm currently running Win 8.1 at the office and on a personal laptop.  Granted on both systems I'm running VMWare and have plenty of other OSes running, but in my opinion the 8.0 to 8.1 transition made the operating system more usable but it still sucks to use.

The missing traditional "Programs" menu, especially with how Windows 7 handled it is the biggest feature that I'm missing. I typically use the same programs most of the time, but especially at work I go through phases with other programs, so having the list of "recently used" programs, plus with Office Applications then breaking into recent documents just a couple of clicks away was great.  I found that I could pin the application launcher to the taskbar in Win8.1 and right click to get a much shorter list of recent documents than 7 had available, but I like to try to have a clean desktop so having all of the Office icons pinned to the task area drives me crazy especially for the ones that I rarely use except to verify documents for staff.



There may be another way of doing this, but you can go into the start page, click the down arrow to the program listing.  Then change the apps listing to "Most Used".

I typically pin my most used apps to the start page to skip the additional step.
 
2014-02-10 12:24:12 PM  
LineNoise:

It isn't that the windows 8 UI is bad.

Yeah, it is.
 
2014-02-10 12:24:27 PM  

Marine1: 1) They're "admitting" their fark-up because no one will give it a damn rest. The tech press (and Fark headlines) are notorious for never giving Microsoft the benefit of the doubt on anything. They screw up, but Metro wasn't one of their screwups.


Yes.  It was.  Which is why they're backing away from it, why everyone involved was shiatcanned, etc.  Putting Metro on a desktop OS was a screwup, period.  (Hell, even the NAME Metro was a screwup, since they're not allowed to use it.)  It's no conspiracy.  It's not that the press is too critical of MS; it's that they're too UNCRITICAL of Apple.

2) Using it on a touchscreen, which is a desired feature of most devices today. All of those things "replacing" PCs have them. Sticking with the traditional user interface on such a product would have meant death for Windows, because Windows 7 was a PITA to use on a touchscreen or with any touch interface. Windows 8 is not as much of a PITA to use on a traditional KVM setup as Windows 7 was on a touchscreen.

True enough, I suppose.  But this wasn't the answer either.
 Once you get used to it, like anything else, it's actually better. No more guiding your cursor through a tiny channel in a dropdown menu to get to a program. No more hunting through a list of items in 12-point font in a scrollbox to get to your program folder. No more dead space on the desktop sitting there doing nothing when it could be displaying information.

So untrue.  It's better to "hunt through" screen after screen of unsorted tiles, with office applications mixed in among accidentally installed spammy apps and games?  Oh, just type the name you say?  Like we could do in Windows BEFORE the ugly Metro crap?


No more dead space on the desktop sitting there doing nothing when it could be displaying information.

Seriously?  The dead space is not there because you can't see the desktop, or ANYTHING YOU WERE ALREADY RUNNING.  Because the useless chaos of the Start screen has entirely taken over your giant screen.
 
2014-02-10 12:29:21 PM  
Just look how popular 'pinning' is!  (ohh yea 90% of it's use is people accidentally using it)

I understand the business and branding sense having a single platform for all devices but they really screwed the pooch by forcing it instead of easing people into it by having the metro design be default but having the ability to go back to a mostly 7 layout.

The constant need to (seemingly) bury administrative tools is maddening.
 
2014-02-10 12:31:53 PM  

PluckYew: Egoy3k: DanZero: Not too much hate on 8.

It's your operating system. It will find some way to annoy you eventually.


Why the Windows 8 haters want to have an outdated UI option that nobody should be using anymore anyway is a mystery to me.

The start menu  uses less than 30% of the screen for a task that is pretty much always a quick uni-tasking activity.  You click the menu find what you want in tightly fitted text and small icons open it and the start menudisappears.

Metro is a full screen start menu that displays live data and larger icons that are easily found and clicked on quickly.

Then again who bothers witheither? Just hit the windows key and type the first three letters of the name of what you want.

Who the fark are you?  What are you a 12 year old?   They put all the relevant tools in one place, conditioned us for 20 years to look in that place and it the next instance of the OS took it away.  Those of us in the Enterprise, don't have time to relearn how to use our goddamn tools.

If you want to provide a "new" interface (which nobody cares about) at least leave the functionality of the old interface. 

fark MS, I'll be waiting for Windows 9, if it's Metrofied, they can EABOD


If you think that I'm not in the 'Enterprise' (why is the capitalized?) you are mistaken.  Most of us don't care where the tools are because we have been accessing them quickly and easily without using the start menu long before windows 8 was released.  The start menu is a crappy UI choice and metro is a slightly less crappy UI choice, your conditioning to the start menu notwithstanding.

If you are visually searching the start menu you are a casual user. A casual user probably enjoys visual cues, live tiles, and all the associated other crap.  If you know what you want then it's faster and easier to just use the search. If you use what you were looking for often it's likely that you already have it pinned to your taskbar.  There is simply no reason for the start menu to exist and barely any reason for metro to exist. It's a pointless vestigial organ and not worth the rage directed towards it.

Basically if you are upset about metro you should be upset about the start menu too but since they are both meaningless in terms of efficient operation of your PC it's not worth the energy to get upset about either of them.
 
2014-02-10 12:33:10 PM  

HindiDiscoMonster: IRQ12: Just look how popular 'pinning' is!  (ohh yea 90% of it's use is people accidentally using it)

I understand the business and branding sense having a single platform for all devices but they really screwed the pooch by forcing it instead of easing people into it by having the metro design be default but having the ability to go back to a mostly 7 layout.

The constant need to (seemingly) bury administrative tools is maddening.

you can pin those too. :-P



Actually admin tools are easier than ever to get to... just hit window+x key.  I use it multiple times daily.  Want explorer?  Window+E
 
2014-02-10 12:33:16 PM  

HindiDiscoMonster: IRQ12: Just look how popular 'pinning' is!  (ohh yea 90% of it's use is people accidentally using it)

I understand the business and branding sense having a single platform for all devices but they really screwed the pooch by forcing it instead of easing people into it by having the metro design be default but having the ability to go back to a mostly 7 layout.

The constant need to (seemingly) bury administrative tools is maddening.

you can pin those too. :-P


He meant that they keep on hiding them further and differently in each version of Windows.
 
2014-02-10 12:33:59 PM  

Molavian: Ever since my Technet subscription got canned I find that I'm migrating away from Windows products.

Especially at work.


I'm one of them, and I've had 0 problems with my 8.1 tablet. Though, ASUS ruined their camera app by not allowing the camera flash to work, but that doesn't have anything to do with MS.
 
2014-02-10 12:37:08 PM  
I worked in IT all the way back to Windows 3.11.  I used to manually set IRQ settings on boards for Pete's Sake.  I put up with NT 3.51, 4.0, Win98, WinMe, Windows 2000, Windows XP, and finally Windows 7.  We did skip WinMe at work - everything else our CIO decided had to be implemented.  I got used to all of it.  This Windows 8 interface sucks donkey cock.  It needed to be said.  I have no other point.
 
2014-02-10 12:37:23 PM  

PluckYew: Egoy3k: DanZero: Not too much hate on 8.

It's your operating system. It will find some way to annoy you eventually.


Why the Windows 8 haters want to have an outdated UI option that nobody should be using anymore anyway is a mystery to me.

The start menu  uses less than 30% of the screen for a task that is pretty much always a quick uni-tasking activity.  You click the menu find what you want in tightly fitted text and small icons open it and the start menudisappears.

Metro is a full screen start menu that displays live data and larger icons that are easily found and clicked on quickly.

Then again who bothers witheither? Just hit the windows key and type the first three letters of the name of what you want.

Who the fark are you?  What are you a 12 year old?   They put all the relevant tools in one place, conditioned us for 20 years to look in that place and it the next instance of the OS took it away.  Those of us in the Enterprise, don't have time to relearn how to use our goddamn tools.

If you want to provide a "new" interface (which nobody cares about) at least leave the functionality of the old interface. 

fark MS, I'll be waiting for Windows 9, if it's Metrofied, they can EABOD


Far-king THIS.

The classic Windows UI is not necessarily obsolete simply because the year is 2014 and regular end users tend to use user-friendly smartphones and tablets, something that the Metro interface is completely suited to be used on.

Try using it on a desktop PC, however, and you get the major shiatshow we're seeing right now.

At the very LEAST, they could have made both Classic and Metro UIs separate built-in options, and defaulted to Metro upon installation since they're pushing it so damn much.

Microsoft shouldn't have omitted the very feature (the Start/Programs menu) that made them farking successful in the first place. I understand computer technology changes in a heartbeat, but *some* things just shouldn't change.

Now, if only I could get Win 8.1 to stop using over half of the 4GBs on my new laptop.....
 
2014-02-10 12:37:40 PM  

Supadope: 95 bad
98 good
ME bad
XP good
Vista bad
7 good
8 bad
9 good?

I don't know why people keep saying this?

For YEARS Windows XP was complete and absolute crap and people weren't going to move away from Windows 2000 (which you left out). Until SP2, and even a bit in SP3, XP was one of the worst offenders for crashes and bluescreens on the planet. It seemed like if you did anything to the video card drivers, you'd bluescreen that operating system. I remember the pain of having to deal with Bluetooth drivers and having to use 3rd party controls to get devices to work properly. And god help you if you wanted to search & index the operating system and a large external media drive. In XP, it's like working with a snail.

 It seems like people love to look at that Fisher Price operating system with rose colored glasses.
 
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