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(BetaNews)   Windows 8.1 release update called, "A Frankenstein product stitched together with compromises." Considering the press Microsoft usually gets that's like a compliment. You might start seeing that phrase in their ads   (betanews.com) divider line 357
    More: Followup, Windows, Microsoft, Windows 8.1, Frankenstein, Frankenstein product, Windows Store, Start Button, compromises  
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10162 clicks; posted to Business » on 10 Feb 2014 at 10:45 AM (31 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-02-10 11:18:04 AM

Dafatone: The whole "one experience for everything in your life" is straight out of some creepy dystopia.

It also sounds like something a few design people got erections over.


And something that all of them are working towards now, from Google to Apple to MS.
 
2014-02-10 11:20:38 AM
The problem with the new windows is that for basic desktop or laptop use, the learning curve is not rewarded with increased functionality or ease of use, meaning that I would gladly switch back to Win 7.

On my TV, I prefer windows 8.1, but not by a huge margin. I can see that everything is headed in the direction ofhaving to be online at all times. I am starting to wonder though, if there is a new opportunity for Linux here as Microsoft tries to steer people toward more costly services and hardware.

Of course somebody says that every few years and is proven wrong because MS rules the business markets. That will continue for now.
 
2014-02-10 11:20:47 AM

Supadope: 95 bad
98 good
ME bad
XP good
Vista bad
7 good
8 bad
9 good?


Nope.  See they're rushing to get 9 out the door to deal with the bad publicity from 8, which leads to the problem of 9 basically being 8.
 
2014-02-10 11:21:45 AM

Dafatone: The whole "one experience for everything in your life" is straight out of some creepy dystopia.


Agreed. It's like being married, and *not* having a mistress as well. Who the hell wants that???
 
2014-02-10 11:22:07 AM
 
2014-02-10 11:22:46 AM
The incongruity I find most annoying is the 'PC Settings' function that is only available as a metro app. Why the fark are the very same settings not available through control panel?

My metro apps were broken due to a microsoft store/account problem. The only way to edit was via PC Settings, which is a metro app ONLY. goto 10. arggggg.
 
2014-02-10 11:22:52 AM
I still have Win 7 and I like it, but I often access my pc remotely with a small tablet so Win 8  is looks appealing.
 
2014-02-10 11:23:30 AM

Animatronik: The problem with the new windows is that for basic desktop or laptop use, the learning curve is not rewarded with increased functionality or ease of use, meaning that I would gladly switch back to Win 7.

On my TV, I prefer windows 8.1, but not by a huge margin. I can see that everything is headed in the direction ofhaving to be online at all times. I am starting to wonder though, if there is a new opportunity for Linux here as Microsoft tries to steer people toward more costly services and hardware.

Of course somebody says that every few years and is proven wrong because MS rules the business markets. That will continue for now.


The other side of that is because there's been no big corporate push for Linux, so it gets swept under the table.  I'm hoping SteamOS can at least take a small chunk of the market share.
 
2014-02-10 11:24:12 AM
The problem with 8 (and even 8.1) is that people continued to use it like they did the previous versions. Instead of taking advantage of the new features, they tried to shoehorn in their method of doing things like they did in previous versions.

That isn't to say it doesn't have its faults, there are a handful of things that bug me a little in 8, but overall the hate is just people making noise. It works well, and if you use the interface as intended (yes, even without touch), you can see what they were going for and why it works.
 
2014-02-10 11:25:19 AM

drxym: Metro is so hateful because it swaps out the whole desktop with a bunch of kid friendly giant tiles. In the ensuing brain fart you forget why you clicked on the button in the first place. That's what pisses people off even if they don't realize it.

If clicking the button launched a mini metro which slid in from the side and functioned almost analogously with the old start menu, then Windows 8.x wouldn't receive anything like the same amount of hate.


That's actually a great idea -- it preserves the context the user is currently in, but still is fancy enough that MS marketing might be satisfied.  The problem, as you point out, is how jarring a shift it is to fill the whole screen in the middle of your work, with something only tangentially related to a fleeting need.  Unfortunately this seems to be a trend in bad design.  It's how the browser tabs on Android work, too, and it drives me a little nuts.

d23: I am building a Linux Terminal Server and I installed Ubuntu 13.10 last night. It's got all the bloat and more of any Microsoft release. It's too bad too as Ubuntu started off so promising. I moved to an lubuntu for my terminal server, and I started using Mint for my laptop last year. Ubuntu has the nicest repositories and available no-hassle software, and Mint takes that advantages and puts a non-stupid desktop on top of it.


I skipped Mint for a few reasons,  but I have to say that Kubuntu is still a damn fine distribution, with lots of KDE goodness.  And no Unity!
 
2014-02-10 11:25:33 AM

Supadope: 95 bad
98 good
ME Star Trek V bad
XP good
Vista bad
7 good
8 bad
9 good?


FTFY

ikanreed: cman: Now if we could destroy Unity next...

There are like one trillion tech products with that name.  I assume you mean the Linux one?  Not the game engine, or development tool, right?


In the context of the article I think it would be self evident.
 
2014-02-10 11:26:04 AM

ikanreed: Nope.  See they're rushing to get 9 out the door to deal with the bad publicity from 8, which leads to the problem of 9 basically being 8.


Eh.  7 was basically Vista w/SPs with a different set of default options checked and a couple minor issues with the UI resolved (asking permission for every little thing every damned time).  And 7 was good.

So "basically 8 but with the complaints addressed" might not be a bad thing.
 
2014-02-10 11:26:23 AM
I bought a new laptop bundled with WIndows 8, and then downloaded the 8.1 update.  I haven't gotten around to tweaking it with third-party mods since the 8.1 update.

It boots fast, and you can set it up to run as a three-quarter assed Windows 7.  That's about it.

It would be fine if you could configure it to a touchpad-friendly "tablet mode" and a mouse & keyboard-friendly "desktop mode" and let the users decide which mode they prefer.
 
2014-02-10 11:28:35 AM

Far Cough: drxym: Metro is so hateful because it swaps out the whole desktop with a bunch of kid friendly giant tiles. In the ensuing brain fart you forget why you clicked on the button in the first place. That's what pisses people off even if they don't realize it.

If clicking the button launched a mini metro which slid in from the side and functioned almost analogously with the old start menu, then Windows 8.x wouldn't receive anything like the same amount of hate.

That's actually a great idea -- it preserves the context the user is currently in, but still is fancy enough that MS marketing might be satisfied.  The problem, as you point out, is how jarring a shift it is to fill the whole screen in the middle of your work, with something only tangentially related to a fleeting need.  Unfortunately this seems to be a trend in bad design.  It's how the browser tabs on Android work, too, and it drives me a little nuts.

d23: I am building a Linux Terminal Server and I installed Ubuntu 13.10 last night. It's got all the bloat and more of any Microsoft release. It's too bad too as Ubuntu started off so promising. I moved to an lubuntu for my terminal server, and I started using Mint for my laptop last year. Ubuntu has the nicest repositories and available no-hassle software, and Mint takes that advantages and puts a non-stupid desktop on top of it.

I skipped Mint for a few reasons,  but I have to say that Kubuntu is still a damn fine distribution, with lots of KDE goodness.  And no Unity!


Gentoo FTW!  Pick whatever you want!  Enjoy your binary-only distros
 
2014-02-10 11:28:39 AM

drxym: Metro is so hateful because it swaps out the whole desktop with a bunch of kid friendly giant tiles. In the ensuing brain fart you forget why you clicked on the button in the first place. That's what pisses people off even if they don't realize it.

If clicking the button launched a mini metro which slid in from the side and functioned almost analogously with the old start menu, then Windows 8.x wouldn't receive anything like the same amount of hate.


In other words "it's different so it's bad, I want the exact same thing as before.  Change is bad."  Sorry, but the old start menu sucked horribly.  The new start menu (aka Metro Desktop) is much better in that you don't have to sort through tiny folders to find what you want, and even if you don't see it you can type to search.
 
2014-02-10 11:29:06 AM

Sharksfan: Carn: Hell no, but I would feel totally confident recommending 8.1 over 7 for people for a new system, assuming cost is the same.

I went the exact opposite way with this.  I have yet to recommend 8 to anyone.

Take for example one of my customers - he's a smart guy who is a Financial Adviser.  He makes money when he's working with clients.   He does not make money when he's learning how to deal with Metro in Win 8 - so when his laptop died we got him a new Dell with Win 7 - that was like two weeks ago.

The learning curve from XP to 7 is negligible.  From 7 > 8 is just hard enough that people like DO NOT WANT to do it, period.  They are smart and capable, but they are also focused elsewhere.


I can understand this.  Then again, people like that can't learn anything new anyway.  I'm a programmer and I was hesitant to get 8.1 but after a five second google and 5-10 minutes of playing with settings, Metro is mostly gone from my laptop or at least I don't see it.  I still need to uninstall the OOB apps and widgets, I don't need that bullshiat and I don't like the task switching for desktop OS.
 
2014-02-10 11:29:52 AM
i.imgur.com
 
2014-02-10 11:30:26 AM

macdaddy357: The solution is stupidly simple. Re-release Windows 7 and apologize for Windows 8. It is a stinking rotten lemon.


Again, the only thing obviously wrong with it is the Metro UI, which is fine for tablets and "okay" for desktops, just requiring you to learn how to do things again. If they let Metro apps be resized/multiple on a page (and no, split screen isn't enough) and just folded the damn charms menu into the start screen, half the complaints would go away. Seriously, that charms menu is pointless. Does anyone even use it to access anything but settings?
 
2014-02-10 11:30:39 AM

Far Cough: That's actually a great idea -- it preserves the context the user is currently in, but still is fancy enough that MS marketing might be satisfied. The problem, as you point out, is how jarring a shift it is to fill the whole screen in the middle of your work, with something only tangentially related to a fleeting need. Unfortunately this seems to be a trend in bad design. It's how the browser tabs on Android work, too, and it drives me a little nuts.


I forgot to add, there's a real analog to this in the physical world.  We're much more likely to forget what we're looking for when we walk through a doorway.  This has been tested a bit from what I recall.  It's some kind of environmental calibration we rely on as humans, I think to save processing time and memory requirements in dealing with the world.  Or maybe we're just stupid, I don't know.
 
2014-02-10 11:31:00 AM
Artist's rendition of Window 8.1:

lh3.googleusercontent.com
 
2014-02-10 11:31:25 AM
img.fark.net
 
2014-02-10 11:31:37 AM

Far Cough: That's actually a great idea -- it preserves the context the user is currently in, but still is fancy enough that MS marketing might be satisfied.  The problem, as you point out, is how jarring a shift it is to fill the whole screen in the middle of your work, with something only tangentially related to a fleeting need.  Unfortunately this seems to be a trend in bad design.  It's how the browser tabs on Android work, too, and it drives me a little nuts.


Agreed. What is nice about how the new system works is if I want to say, launch word, I no longer have to go Start-Programs-Microsoft Office-etc. I just hit the windows key, type in a rough aproximation of what I was looking for, and it finds it and i hit enter. Its helpful when you have a brazillion programs\apps installed on a computer and are looking for something that you don't use enough to dedicate a shortcut to. Sure, I could do that in previous versions by doing start->run and typing winword, which works fine for something that has a simple executable in the path that I know the name for, but not every program is like that.

The problem with the 8 interface is that even though I can now quickly search for what I want, I've got to blank my desktop to do so. I think you hit it on the head when you say that is jarring when you are in the middle of work, and I just wanted to quickly bring up say, calculator to confirm some math or something.

My other complaint is that there isn't an easy and intuitive way to set default behavior. Case in point, I spend all day in a ton of different terminal sessions. When I run my terminal emulator, I want i to open a new one each time. You can't do that (or at least I haven't figured out an easy way of doing it) using the method described above. It will just keep bringing you back to what you already have open.
 
2014-02-10 11:31:42 AM

Supadope: 95 bad
98 good
ME bad sucked dicks in Hell
XP good
Vista  bad sucked farts through Satan's asshole after Taco Bell
7 good
8 bad
9 good?


Fixed for accuracy.
 
2014-02-10 11:32:13 AM

Marine1: More time has been spent biatching about Windows 8's interface than has been lost in productivity due to the interface.


With the genius at Microsoft who crammed that ribbon in Office down people's throats admitting that the new Windows interface costs days to weeks of productivity, that might not be a safe bet.
 
2014-02-10 11:33:25 AM

Sharksfan: The learning curve from XP to 7 is negligible. From 7 > 8 is just hard enough that people like DO NOT WANT to do it, period. They are smart and capable, but they are also focused elsewhere.


Yep, that's the biggest problem in my mind.  I'm a pretty smart feller, but also impatient.  So when I can't readily find the ways to set permissions, or create a local admin account on a Win 8 computer (sure, I could look it up, but i'm in a farking hurry, dammit!), I get a bit peeved.

Although, from what I've seen, 8 runs pretty freakin' quick... It supposedly has less bloat than 7.

For someone brand-spanking new to computers, I'm sure they'll take to 8 quite easily.  But for us old fogeys who are used to pretty much the same layout since Win95, there's a bit of a learning curve.
 
2014-02-10 11:33:41 AM
Can't really complain about running Win 7 on my home system.  But as an old IT guy, I think the "80/20" rule still applies to software development: 80% of the users will only 'use' 20% of the available applications.

And on that note, why would I want to watch "Everyone Loves Raymond" on my cell phone?  Never did like that show.
 
2014-02-10 11:34:37 AM

Marine1: [img.fark.net image 500x500]


You forgot the 90% of that wheel that should be dedicated to "time spent making pointless charts attempting to justify a bad operating system"
 
2014-02-10 11:34:41 AM

dv-ous: Please do a youtube search for "phil hartman frankenstein monster" - You'll be glad you did.


*nucks*
 
2014-02-10 11:34:53 AM

Telos: In other words "it's different so it's bad, I want the exact same thing as before. Change is bad." Sorry, but the old start menu sucked horribly. The new start menu (aka Metro Desktop) is much better in that you don't have to sort through tiny folders to find what you want, and even if you don't see it you can type to search.


Yah because having all 18 of Office's stupid little obscure apps along with every other executable in one gigantic unsorted tile set resembling an detonated skittle bag is so great.  The superior Start Menu from 7 had a self learning 'commonly used' section front and center and then an organized tree to hold all those bullshiat apps you use once a century, and it also featured a search by typing right there as well.  Sure Metro would be okay for people who barely scratch the capabilities of a computer, but anyone doing any real amount of work on a system has enough apps installed that the flat sprawl gets hideous.
 
2014-02-10 11:35:54 AM

ikanreed: cman: Now if we could destroy Unity next...

There are like one trillion tech products with that name.  I assume you mean the Linux one?  Not the game engine, or development tool, right?


This. I *love* VmWare Unity, it lets me have Outlook and MS Communicator windows coexisting with my various konsoles and emacsen, so I can actually communicate with others in this corporation.
 
2014-02-10 11:36:48 AM

kid_icarus: So it's a lot like your marriage, subby.


Hey now marriage is great always. Sure I get no bjs anymore, but I get to pay all the bills... wait one moment....
 
2014-02-10 11:37:52 AM

demaL-demaL-yeH: Marine1: More time has been spent biatching about Windows 8's interface than has been lost in productivity due to the interface.

With the genius at Microsoft who crammed that ribbon in Office down people's throats admitting that the new Windows interface costs days to weeks of productivity, that might not be a safe bet.


Except I've been using it on all of my systems for the last few months and I haven't had any problems that couldn't be solved by a quick Google (or Bing) search.

Learning how to use Windows 8 requires the skill set of a guy who gets paid $2.50/hour in a call center in India that takes help desk questions. That's it. If you can't figure it out after that, you're an incompetent computer user. It takes less time to get used to than Linux. End of story. Moving on.
 
2014-02-10 11:40:07 AM

xanadian: For someone brand-spanking new to computers, I'm sure they'll take to 8 quite easily.  But for us old fogeys who are used to pretty much the same layout since Win95, there's a bit of a learning curve.


It was a deliberate design choice on MS's part: make the learning curve steeper in exchange for saving screen real estate that would be otherwise used by "affordances" (things what make UIs discoverable).

The thought being: once someone learns the various ways to get things done, they'll remember.

Not that it was a *good* design choice (among other things, non-tablet monitors don't really need to squeeze out every last pixel of wasted UI space), but they at least knew the consequences. (I think).
 
2014-02-10 11:40:37 AM

LineNoise: Far Cough: That's actually a great idea -- it preserves the context the user is currently in, but still is fancy enough that MS marketing might be satisfied.  The problem, as you point out, is how jarring a shift it is to fill the whole screen in the middle of your work, with something only tangentially related to a fleeting need.  Unfortunately this seems to be a trend in bad design.  It's how the browser tabs on Android work, too, and it drives me a little nuts.

Agreed. What is nice about how the new system works is if I want to say, launch word, I no longer have to go Start-Programs-Microsoft Office-etc. I just hit the windows key, type in a rough aproximation of what I was looking for, and it finds it and i hit enter. Its helpful when you have a brazillion programs\apps installed on a computer and are looking for something that you don't use enough to dedicate a shortcut to. Sure, I could do that in previous versions by doing start->run and typing winword, which works fine for something that has a simple executable in the path that I know the name for, but not every program is like that.

The problem with the 8 interface is that even though I can now quickly search for what I want, I've got to blank my desktop to do so. I think you hit it on the head when you say that is jarring when you are in the middle of work, and I just wanted to quickly bring up say, calculator to confirm some math or something.

My other complaint is that there isn't an easy and intuitive way to set default behavior. Case in point, I spend all day in a ton of different terminal sessions. When I run my terminal emulator, I want i to open a new one each time. You can't do that (or at least I haven't figured out an easy way of doing it) using the method described above. It will just keep bringing you back to what you already have open.


Not sure if this applies to every program, but I believe 8 now differentiates between running instances and opening a new instance of that program. For example, typing "Firefox" on the start screen brings me two entries, one blue (open) and one the normal color (new instance). Beyond that, you can try pinning it to the taskbar and shift-clicking.
 
2014-02-10 11:40:51 AM
Carn:
My laptop I got this fall came with 8.1 and the first thing I did was disable most of the Metro stuff and turn on classic.  This article writer sounds like a noob.

And that's where MS has failed. The common user is a noob, and does not want to, or know how to work around to get rid of the Metro stuff.
Sure, it's easy for me to install classic shell. Not so much for my older relatives that just want to turn on their new computer, and see something that is familiar to them.
 
2014-02-10 11:41:40 AM

demaL-demaL-yeH: With the genius at Microsoft who crammed that ribbon in Office down people's throats admitting that the new Windows interface costs days to weeks of productivity, that might not be a safe bet.


When I saw ribbon come out I knew this period of horrible design was coming. Ribbon is "neat looking" but functionally garbage. That outlook took over the entire company. Microsoft is now kinda neat looking useless (and sometimes freshly crippled) garbage.

I was especially impressed when they farked up cleartype in the new Office.
 
2014-02-10 11:42:04 AM

hawcian: Not sure if this applies to every program, but I believe 8 now differentiates between running instances and opening a new instance of that program. For example, typing "Firefox" on the start screen brings me two entries, one blue (open) and one the normal color (new instance). Beyond that, you can try pinning it to the taskbar and shift-clicking.


Actually, nevermind. That's actually because Firefox doesn't play nice with Windows 8. But the shift-click should still work.
 
2014-02-10 11:42:24 AM

LineNoise: Far Cough: That's actually a great idea -- it preserves the context the user is currently in, but still is fancy enough that MS marketing might be satisfied.  The problem, as you point out, is how jarring a shift it is to fill the whole screen in the middle of your work, with something only tangentially related to a fleeting need.  Unfortunately this seems to be a trend in bad design.  It's how the browser tabs on Android work, too, and it drives me a little nuts.

Agreed. What is nice about how the new system works is if I want to say, launch word, I no longer have to go Start-Programs-Microsoft Office-etc. I just hit the windows key, type in a rough aproximation of what I was looking for, and it finds it and i hit enter. Its helpful when you have a brazillion programs\apps installed on a computer and are looking for something that you don't use enough to dedicate a shortcut to. Sure, I could do that in previous versions by doing start->run and typing winword, which works fine for something that has a simple executable in the path that I know the name for, but not every program is like that.

The problem with the 8 interface is that even though I can now quickly search for what I want, I've got to blank my desktop to do so. I think you hit it on the head when you say that is jarring when you are in the middle of work, and I just wanted to quickly bring up say, calculator to confirm some math or something.

My other complaint is that there isn't an easy and intuitive way to set default behavior. Case in point, I spend all day in a ton of different terminal sessions. When I run my terminal emulator, I want i to open a new one each time. You can't do that (or at least I haven't figured out an easy way of doing it) using the method described above. It will just keep bringing you back to what you already have open.


Win+r mstsc.  I think it still has the old run, need to verify on other machine.
 
2014-02-10 11:43:23 AM

hawcian: Not sure if this applies to every program, but I believe 8 now differentiates between running instances and opening a new instance of that program. For example, typing "Firefox" on the start screen brings me two entries, one blue (open) and one the normal color (new instance). Beyond that, you can try pinning it to the taskbar and shift-clicking.


Its a program thing, and yea, you can pin it, or create your own shortcut, or do a few other things to make it open in a new instance, so it isn't a show stopper, its just a minor annoyance.
 
2014-02-10 11:44:33 AM

Telos: and even if you don't see it you can type to search.


You, could, do, that, ever, since, Vista.  I was no big fan of the old Start Menu, but it served a need and wasn't distracting from what you were doing at the moment.  The new start screen is just awful.

LineNoise: Sure, I could do that in previous versions by doing start->run and typing winword, which works fine for something that has a simple executable in the path that I know the name for, but not every program is like that.


Please see above.  :)  You haven't needed to hit "Run" for a while (since XP).  Now, it doesn't always find everything, but that's another biatchfest.

/Team Ribbon-Blows-Monkeys
 
2014-02-10 11:44:39 AM

Egoy3k: DanZero: Not too much hate on 8.

It's your operating system. It will find some way to annoy you eventually.


Why the Windows 8 haters want to have an outdated UI option that nobody should be using anymore anyway is a mystery to me.

The start menu  uses less than 30% of the screen for a task that is pretty much always a quick uni-tasking activity.  You click the menu find what you want in tightly fitted text and small icons open it and the start menudisappears.

Metro is a full screen start menu that displays live data and larger icons that are easily found and clicked on quickly.

Then again who bothers witheither? Just hit the windows key and type the first three letters of the name of what you want.


Who the fark are you?  What are you a 12 year old?   They put all the relevant tools in one place, conditioned us for 20 years to look in that place and it the next instance of the OS took it away.  Those of us in the Enterprise, don't have time to relearn how to use our goddamn tools.

If you want to provide a "new" interface (which nobody cares about) at least leave the functionality of the old interface. 

fark MS, I'll be waiting for Windows 9, if it's Metrofied, they can EABOD
 
2014-02-10 11:44:56 AM

Phil Moskowitz: demaL-demaL-yeH: With the genius at Microsoft who crammed that ribbon in Office down people's throats admitting that the new Windows interface costs days to weeks of productivity, that might not be a safe bet.

When I saw ribbon come out I knew this period of horrible design was coming. Ribbon is "neat looking" but functionally garbage. That outlook took over the entire company. Microsoft is now kinda neat looking useless (and sometimes freshly crippled) garbage.

I was especially impressed when they farked up cleartype in the new Office.


I still hate the ribbon with a passion.

I remember the first time I saw it, I laughed my ass off hard thinking it was some sort of joke. Sadly I was mistaken.
 
2014-02-10 11:44:57 AM

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Carn:
My laptop I got this fall came with 8.1 and the first thing I did was disable most of the Metro stuff and turn on classic.  This article writer sounds like a noob.

And that's where MS has failed. The common user is a noob, and does not want to, or know how to work around to get rid of the Metro stuff.
Sure, it's easy for me to install classic shell. Not so much for my older relatives that just want to turn on their new computer, and see something that is familiar to them.


Completely agree.  For those of us who are willing and able to poke around a bit, it's a bit of an upgrade from 7.  Not a huge one mind, and I'm still running 7 pro on my desktop and work laptop.  Would have stuck with it on my new laptop also if it was a choice due to fear of change.  Looks like my new work laptop will have it so I'm glad I've been exposed already.
 
2014-02-10 11:45:07 AM

Phil Moskowitz: demaL-demaL-yeH: With the genius at Microsoft who crammed that ribbon in Office down people's throats admitting that the new Windows interface costs days to weeks of productivity, that might not be a safe bet.

When I saw ribbon come out I knew this period of horrible design was coming. Ribbon is "neat looking" but functionally garbage. That outlook took over the entire company. Microsoft is now kinda neat looking useless (and sometimes freshly crippled) garbage.

I was especially impressed when they farked up cleartype in the new Office.


Yep.  My users shiat bricks when they had to start using the Ribbon in Office 2007.  Good times.
 
2014-02-10 11:45:10 AM

ikanreed: Supadope: 95 bad
98 good
ME bad
XP good
Vista bad
7 good
8 bad
9 good?

Nope.  See they're rushing to get 9 out the door to deal with the bad publicity from 8, which leads to the problem of 9 basically being 8.


Isn't that the problem with Windows 7 basically though? I mean despite the stupid "good/bad" meme, Windows 7 is essentially identical to Vista in normal use. The only minor differences I ever note between my two computers at home is the bizarre 3-5 minute "timeouts" I get all the time in Windows 7 where files can't be moved/renamed as it claims something else is using them, which my equivalent (couple of years older) Vista system never really gets (except where you would expect it as you do have the file open in something).


The Windows 7 box also never remembers my NAS password despite some messing around with some advice from random web sites to try and manually store it somewhere, whereas Vista just remembers automatically.


They both seem to run about the same speed, despite the Windows 7 box being 3 years newer, although they are fairly high spec for gaming purposes, so just tatting about in the OS might be expected to not stretch either system.
 
2014-02-10 11:45:50 AM
I like 8, but I have a hybrid laptop/tablet, which seems perfectly suited to the schizo nature of 8.
 
2014-02-10 11:46:20 AM

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Carn:
My laptop I got this fall came with 8.1 and the first thing I did was disable most of the Metro stuff and turn on classic.  This article writer sounds like a noob.

And that's where MS has failed. The common user is a noob, and does not want to, or know how to work around to get rid of the Metro stuff.
Sure, it's easy for me to install classic shell. Not so much for my older relatives that just want to turn on their new computer, and see something that is familiar to them.


I get that the average user is an idiot. 

What I don't get is the idea of constantly kowtowing down to the lowest common denominator in everything related to software design even when it means not advancing a product in a meaningful way to take advantage of the most recent innovations in the field.

Windows 8.x is perfectly usable. 8 was alright; 8.1 is good.

If you cannot figure out a few small changes in the user interface (and it's just that... small), you are screwed as a computer user. Period. If you don't like Windows 8, and switch to OS X or Linux, you'll find yourself spending more time installing and preparing the machine than it would have taken to figure out Windows 8. This gets more true as your level of experience with computers decreases, so that noob you're talking about needs to stop being such a noob and take 15 minutes out of his/her day to figure out the answers to a few questions.
 
2014-02-10 11:46:29 AM

Marine1: demaL-demaL-yeH: Marine1: More time has been spent biatching about Windows 8's interface than has been lost in productivity due to the interface.

With the genius at Microsoft who crammed that ribbon in Office down people's throats admitting that the new Windows interface costs days to weeks of productivity, that might not be a safe bet.

Except I've been using it on all of my systems for the last few months and I haven't had any problems that couldn't be solved by a quick Google (or Bing) search.

Learning how to use Windows 8 requires the skill set of a guy who gets paid $2.50/hour in a call center in India that takes help desk questions. That's it. If you can't figure it out after that, you're an incompetent computer user. It takes less time to get used to than Linux. End of story. Moving on.


Your personal anecdote != the head of Windows development admitting that it loses productivity.
/Not to mention that you just admitted that you lost productivity, too.
 
2014-02-10 11:47:03 AM
I really hate how the metro interface is integrated into Server 2012.
 
2014-02-10 11:47:11 AM

Carn: Win+r mstsc.  I think it still has the old run, need to verify on other machine.


Oh, yea, I know, like I said there are plenty of ways of doing it, but they defeat the point of the whole new UI when you want the default behavior of an app to work differently than it does out of the box (even when its an app that would make sense to default a different way).

I think they will get it right with some polish, but the point is in here. It isn't that the windows 8 UI is bad. Most of the examples people tout out are outright wrong, or, like me, they just need to spend 5 minutes to figure out how you do something the new way vs how it worked in 7, and people don't want to do that.

If you are someone who runs office, a browser, and a couple of games, the start menu is fine for you, and I get that. But if you suddenly have a brazillion apps on your desktop, which is what happens when you introduce the app store and the like, it starts getting to be a clunky way of organizing stuff. Tiles and a robust search make sense. They just need to figure out a middle ground of sorts
 
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