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(Boston Herald)   Want to upgrade your rusty old revolver? Boston is starting a gun buyback program   (bostonherald.com) divider line 48
    More: PSA, gun buyback program, Boston Medical Center  
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366 clicks; posted to Politics » on 10 Feb 2014 at 10:38 AM (41 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-02-10 09:03:53 AM  
Want to upgrade your rusty old revolver rare German StG-44 assault rifle ? Boston is starting a gun buyback program.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/01/01/stg-44-turned-ca-buyba ck -200-gift-card/

http://www.armoryblog.com/firearms/rifles/sturmgewehr-44-saved-from- po lice-buy-back-program/

Two different incidents within a year.
 
2014-02-10 09:10:35 AM  
There aren't enough guns in Massachusetts.
 
2014-02-10 09:44:49 AM  

dittybopper: Want to upgrade your rusty old revolver rare German StG-44 assault rifle ? Boston is starting a gun buyback program.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/01/01/stg-44-turned-ca-buyba ck -200-gift-card/

http://www.armoryblog.com/firearms/rifles/sturmgewehr-44-saved-from- po lice-buy-back-program/

Two different incidents within a year.


They really ought to have a few collectors participate in these programs so people with truly valuable historic guns don't get ripped off.
 
2014-02-10 09:45:16 AM  

vudukungfu: There aren't enough guns in Massachusetts.


Well, what happens most of the time is that the guns turned in were the property of John Smith, who passed away recently of old age (or related conditions), and it's his widow or other family members bringing them in because it's a simple way to get rid of them.  So you tend to get old guns that have been sitting in a closet for the last 30 or 40 years like 70 year old Smith and Wesson Model 10 revolvers "off the street", but they weren't really any serious danger to society in the first place.

And yeah, there are likely plenty of unregistered guns in Massachusetts:

IMAGINING GUN CONTROL IN AMERICA: UNDERSTANDING THE REMAINDER PROBLEM
Data from international experiments with gun prohibition and 
registration illustrates a powerful and nearly universal individual 
impulse to defy gun bans. With data from seventy-seven countries, 
the International Small Arms Survey reports massive illegal 
parallel holdings with an average defiance ratio of 2.6 illegal guns 
for every legal one.
 
2014-02-10 09:49:13 AM  

Tom_Slick: dittybopper: Want to upgrade your rusty old revolver rare German StG-44 assault rifle ? Boston is starting a gun buyback program.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/01/01/stg-44-turned-ca-buyba ck -200-gift-card/

http://www.armoryblog.com/firearms/rifles/sturmgewehr-44-saved-from- po lice-buy-back-program/

Two different incidents within a year.

They really ought to have a few collectors participate in these programs so people with truly valuable historic guns don't get ripped off.


First, the localities that do this sort of thing generally don't care that they are ripping off the people turning in guns, but they do get upset when gun collectors stand outside and legally offer to buy guns with collector value.

Also, it often happens that gun collectors use this as an opportunity to get rid of their 'dogs' that have no value.  Got rusted, old and broken .44 Bulldog revolver that is worth about $20?  Turn it in for a $200 gift card!

That's what the headline refers to, btw.
 
2014-02-10 10:00:24 AM  

dittybopper: Tom_Slick: dittybopper: Want to upgrade your rusty old revolver rare German StG-44 assault rifle ? Boston is starting a gun buyback program.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/01/01/stg-44-turned-ca-buyba ck -200-gift-card/

http://www.armoryblog.com/firearms/rifles/sturmgewehr-44-saved-from- po lice-buy-back-program/

Two different incidents within a year.

They really ought to have a few collectors participate in these programs so people with truly valuable historic guns don't get ripped off.

First, the localities that do this sort of thing generally don't care that they are ripping off the people turning in guns, but they do get upset when gun collectors stand outside and legally offer to buy guns with collector value.

Also, it often happens that gun collectors use this as an opportunity to get rid of their 'dogs' that have no value.  Got rusted, old and broken .44 Bulldog revolver that is worth about $20?  Turn it in for a $200 gift card!

That's what the headline refers to, btw.


I know I've heard the stories, the problem I have is if say a pawn shop was ripping people off in this manner they would be investigated for fraud. when the police do it it is OK.
 
2014-02-10 10:15:26 AM  

vudukungfu: There aren't enough guns in Massachusetts.


it's only the home of Smith & Wesson...
 
2014-02-10 10:17:37 AM  

dittybopper: Also, it often happens that gun collectors use this as an opportunity to get rid of their 'dogs' that have no value.  Got rusted, old and broken .44 Bulldog revolver that is worth about $20?  Turn it in for a $200 gift card!


then they immediately go back to whining about welfare queens ripping off the government.
 
2014-02-10 10:24:09 AM  
You can have my gun when you pry it from my cold, dead hands offer me more than it's worth.
 
2014-02-10 10:24:45 AM  

Headso: dittybopper: Also, it often happens that gun collectors use this as an opportunity to get rid of their 'dogs' that have no value.  Got rusted, old and broken .44 Bulldog revolver that is worth about $20?  Turn it in for a $200 gift card!

then they immediately go back to whining about welfare queens ripping off the government.


Generally, gun buy-up programs aren't government run.  They are often government facilitated, but it's not tax dollars paying for the cash or gift cards usually.
 
2014-02-10 10:28:00 AM  
but sometimes they are and the gun enthusiasts that steal from them are pieces of shiat regardless, It's a step above snagging one of those charity jars at the convenience store.
 
2014-02-10 10:41:16 AM  

Headso: but sometimes they are and the gun enthusiasts that steal from them are pieces of shiat regardless, It's a step above snagging one of those charity jars at the convenience store.


Sure, but the same right wing mentality that justifies owning a gun that statistically increases risk to everyone living in your household also justifies unnecessary greed.  It's called "maximizing your marginal benefit"
 
2014-02-10 10:46:41 AM  

Headso: but sometimes they are and the gun enthusiasts that steal from them are pieces of shiat regardless, It's a step above snagging one of those charity jars at the convenience store.


No they aren't stealing from it.  It's not like they are taking without giving.  They are engaging in the intended business of the gun buy-up itself:  Trading in a gun for cash/gift card/etc., no questions asked.

It's like if you are offering $1,000 for cars in any condition, and I pull the Yugo off the blocks in the backyard and tow it over, I'm not "stealing" money from you because I'm a car collector and I brought in a car that is objectively worth less than that.
 
2014-02-10 10:48:58 AM  
BTW, you can't "buy back" something that wasn't yours to begin with.  So these should be called "gun buy-ups".
 
2014-02-10 10:54:22 AM  
encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com

// I feel bad posting that with a wrong you're, but it fits so well.
 
2014-02-10 10:54:33 AM  
I wish they had this kind of UPGRADE program here in Florida. Especially for $200 a pop.
 
2014-02-10 10:59:06 AM  

dittybopper: Headso: but sometimes they are and the gun enthusiasts that steal from them are pieces of shiat regardless, It's a step above snagging one of those charity jars at the convenience store.

No they aren't stealing from it.  It's not like they are taking without giving.  They are engaging in the intended business of the gun buy-up itself:  Trading in a gun for cash/gift card/etc., no questions asked.

It's like if you are offering $1,000 for cars in any condition, and I pull the Yugo off the blocks in the backyard and tow it over, I'm not "stealing" money from you because I'm a car collector and I brought in a car that is objectively worth less than that.


it's in the spirit of stealing or scamming the buy back, the program is not intended to get unworkable junk out of some hillbilly's scrap pile.
 
2014-02-10 10:59:16 AM  
When I worked in a pawn shop in the 70's they had a 8'x4' table in the store room literally piled a foot deep with defaulted pawned junker guns. They loaned an average of $10 for each one. When the store relocated they simply threw them away.

The owner would have been very happy to get $20 each for them to say nothing of $200.
 
2014-02-10 11:01:36 AM  
So I'm still a bit divided on these.

On the one hand, these programs are expensive and serve no actual purpose in terms of gun control.  Generally, guns that get sold in these are broken or surplus and wouldn't be used in crime in the first place.

On the other hand, while whether the expense is worth it or not is definitely arguable, these programs are probably helpful at preventing some  accidental injury and so on.  Since the kinds of weapons turned in, again, tend to be those that malfunction or are owned by people that don't know how to use a gun that received them inadvertently.

dittybopper: Generally, gun buy-up programs aren't government run.  They are often government facilitated, but it's not tax dollars paying for the cash or gift cards usually.


Really?  From what I've heard they're usually funded off a bond issue or from a law enforcement budget, both of which are sourced from the municipal cut of sales tax.

I've never heard of one being funded off private donations.  Probably because, say, a church buying up every gun they can find tends to put your church on a lot of watch-lists.  Not really any non-tax-funded institutions that could do this without raising basically every red flag in existence.
 
2014-02-10 11:03:40 AM  

dittybopper: Well, what happens most of the time is that the guns turned in were the property of John Smith, who passed away recently of old age (or related conditions), and it's his widow or other family members bringing them in because it's a simple way to get rid of them. So you tend to get old guns that have been sitting in a closet for the last 30 or 40 years like 70 year old Smith and Wesson Model 10 revolvers "off the street", but they weren't really any serious danger to society in the first place.


Those are great guns to get rid of and definitely worth the money they spend. Guns in a house dramatically increase the risk of someone being hurt, and if there is no longer anyone in the house that wants to accept responsibility for the weapons, providing an easy, safe way to get rid of them is great.

My grandfather keeps a couple loaded guns in the house, and there are children that go to that house fairly regularly. I don't know if my grandmother even knows how to unload them. If something happened to him, I'd make sure to get the guns out of the house or at least make sure they were all unloaded.
 
2014-02-10 11:25:25 AM  

Jim_Callahan: On the one hand, these programs are expensive and serve no actual purpose in terms of gun control. Generally, guns that get sold in these are broken or surplus and wouldn't be used in crime in the first place.


The purpose is not to reduce violent crime. The purpose is to emotionally satisfy individuals who fear or hate firearms, while providing incentive for individuals who are uncomfortable with the presence of firearms (and perhaps reasonably so) to remove any unwanted firearms from their homes. Therefore, these programs serve the same purpose as an assault weapons ban, only without actually creating unnecessary restrictions and while arguably serving some small benefit.
 
2014-02-10 11:26:17 AM  

dittybopper: Well, what happens most of the time is that the guns turned in were the property of John Smith, who passed away recently of old age (or related conditions), and it's his widow or other family members bringing them in because it's a simple way to get rid of them. So you tend to get old guns that have been sitting in a closet for the last 30 or 40 years like 70 year old Smith and Wesson Model 10 revolvers "off the street", but they weren't really any serious danger to society in the first place.

And yeah, there are likely plenty of unregistered guns in Massachusetts:


They should offer a firearms instruction course so that people can get registered and register their old firearms and be able to keep them in the family on the spot.
 
2014-02-10 11:29:59 AM  

Headso: it's in the spirit of stealing or scamming the buy back, the program is not intended to get unworkable junk out of some hillbilly's scrap pile.


No it isn't.

All they would have to say is "working guns", or, put a cap on how old the gun is.  No guns over 50 years old, for example.

Of course, guns are one of the few common consumer items that you can buy as a young adult and fully expect that it will be perfectly usable, with due care, into your dotage.
 
2014-02-10 11:37:12 AM  

FarkedOver: They should offer a firearms instruction course so that people can get registered and register their old firearms and be able to keep them in the family on the spot.


Didn't you read what I posted after that?  The number of unregistered guns in Massachusetts is likely much larger than the number of registered guns, because people don't like the idea of registering their guns.  Even in Europe, the number of unregistered guns dwarfs the number of registered ones.
 
2014-02-10 11:40:41 AM  

dittybopper: FarkedOver: They should offer a firearms instruction course so that people can get registered and register their old firearms and be able to keep them in the family on the spot.

Didn't you read what I posted after that?  The number of unregistered guns in Massachusetts is likely much larger than the number of registered guns, because people don't like the idea of registering their guns.  Even in Europe, the number of unregistered guns dwarfs the number of registered ones.


That's fine too.  I'm not a big gun restriction advocate.  Hell I think they should offer firearms instructions courses at gun buy back places regardless of whether or not people have a gun to turn in.  I think everyone should be familiar with operating a firearm. I think making it easier for people to be licensed would be a great thing.
 
2014-02-10 12:04:06 PM  

ikanreed: Headso: but sometimes they are and the gun enthusiasts that steal from them are pieces of shiat regardless, It's a step above snagging one of those charity jars at the convenience store.

Sure, but the same right wing mentality that justifies owning a gun that statistically increases risk to everyone living in your household also justifies unnecessary greed.  It's called "maximizing your marginal benefit"


Oh Jesus.... Another retard that buys into the whole, "ZOMGWTF BBQ!!!  Look at these statistics that say you're more likely to be shot if there's a gun within shooting range of you!  Ban everything for the children!"

FYI... You're also statistically more likely to choke on a hot dog if you're eating a hot dog, more likely to be involved in a car accident if you're in a car, and more likely to drown if you're near water.
 
2014-02-10 12:14:34 PM  
I wouldn't mind one of these programs. I just inherited a bunch of guns from my late uncle - some cherry M1 Garands, a really nice Smith-Corona 1903A4, a Colt Army action .32-20 revolver, sks, and an apparently some 1930's shoddy Spanish knockoff of a Smith and Wesson revolver that's more likely to blowup on me than shoot straight.

I'd huck the Spanish knockoff and use it to help buy another gun safe to keep all the heirlooms.

Also - I now have a bajillion lbs of reloading supplies, books, powder, rounds, dies, and reloading gear. I've never done reloading before, I assume it's not that hard and would be worthwhile to keep that gear?
 
2014-02-10 12:19:32 PM  

Ontos: ikanreed: Headso: but sometimes they are and the gun enthusiasts that steal from them are pieces of shiat regardless, It's a step above snagging one of those charity jars at the convenience store.

Sure, but the same right wing mentality that justifies owning a gun that statistically increases risk to everyone living in your household also justifies unnecessary greed.  It's called "maximizing your marginal benefit"

Oh Jesus.... Another retard that buys into the whole, "ZOMGWTF BBQ!!!  Look at these statistics that say you're more likely to be shot if there's a gun within shooting range of you!  Ban everything for the children!"

FYI... You're also statistically more likely to choke on a hot dog if you're eating a hot dog, more likely to be involved in a car accident if you're in a car, and more likely to drown if you're near water.



And you're also likely to value your(and your family's) life at a negative value if you're a gun nut, and go to absurd mental gymnastics to justify that fact.   Owning a gun is bad for your family, measurably.  If you want to take that risk, fine, but it doesn't make it less true.
 
2014-02-10 12:21:14 PM  

Ontos: Oh Jesus.... Another retard that buys into the whole, "ZOMGWTF BBQ!!! Look at these statistics that say you're more likely to be shot if there's a gun within shooting range of you! Ban everything for the children!"

FYI... You're also statistically more likely to choke on a hot dog if you're eating a hot dog, more likely to be involved in a car accident if you're in a car, and more likely to drown if you're near water.


Exactly.

Except for the part about how nobody is trying to make the argument that they're eating hot dogs or driving cars for "safety".
 
2014-02-10 12:25:42 PM  

udhq: Except for the part about how nobody is trying to make the argument that they're eating hot dogs or driving cars for "safety".


And it's not like getting to work and eating are absolute necessities, and guns are toys for the easily scared.  That would make the stance even more hypocritical.


//Also, some of us also avoid driving every day.
//and saftey improvements on cars have been increasing, so much so that gun deaths are set to overtake car deaths.
 
2014-02-10 12:42:33 PM  

MrSteve007: Also - I now have a bajillion lbs of reloading supplies, books, powder, rounds, dies, and reloading gear. I've never done reloading before, I assume it's not that hard and would be worthwhile to keep that gear?


If you shoot quite a bit, reloading can save you quite a bit, especially if you are not shooting military calibers like the .223 and 7.62x39 (these are pretty cheap when purchased in bulk).

There are quite a few youtube videos that give you a pretty good idea of the process, but if you want to really learn, hit up some of the local mom-and-pop sporting good stores that specialize in firearms and inquire about classes.  Many places offer classes that really give you a good ground up foundation on how to do this and still keep safety the first priority.
 
2014-02-10 12:50:49 PM  

ikanreed: /and saftey improvements on cars have been increasing, so much so that gun deaths are set to overtake car deaths.


That was the case until car deaths increased by about 4.3% in 2012 (largest uptick in percentage since 1966).
 
2014-02-10 12:53:32 PM  
Gun buyback programs.  A way to make the community think they are doing something to reduce gun violence, when it is just a way people can make some money with old broken guns to get new ones.
 
2014-02-10 01:07:02 PM  

HeadLever: If you shoot quite a bit, reloading can save you quite a bit, especially if you are not shooting military calibers like the .223 and 7.62x39 (these are pretty cheap when purchased in bulk).

There are quite a few youtube videos that give you a pretty good idea of the process, but if you want to really learn, hit up some of the local mom-and-pop sporting good stores that specialize in firearms and inquire about classes. Many places offer classes that really give you a good ground up foundation on how to do this and still keep safety the first priority.

Thanks for the tips! I'll definitely do that. It's something I've always wanted to get into, and a good skill to have but it does appear to be time consuming.
 
2014-02-10 01:08:02 PM  

HeadLever: That was the case until car deaths increased by about 4.3% in 2012 (largest uptick in percentage since 1966).


Thanks, Obama.  (No seriously, any idea why?)
 
2014-02-10 01:11:10 PM  
Mission of Burma looks up with interest.
 
2014-02-10 01:15:30 PM  

ikanreed: Thanks, Obama.  (No seriously, any idea why?)


I think that most chalk it up to the economy.  More miles on the road when times are good.

Also, it looks like 2013 might reverse most of that uptick in 2012, though figures for the entire year are still not out.
 
2014-02-10 01:22:19 PM  

MrSteve007: Also - I now have a bajillion lbs of reloading supplies, books, powder, rounds, dies, and reloading gear. I've never done reloading before, I assume it's not that hard and would be worthwhile to keep that gear?


Yes.  It's not that hard.  I'd keep it if I were you, and reload.  It's cheaper (somewhat), but also you can tune your ammo to your specific gun to make it more reliable and/or accurate.
 
2014-02-10 01:26:41 PM  

dittybopper: Also, it often happens that gun collectors use this as an opportunity to get rid of their 'dogs' that have no value. Got rusted, old and broken .44 Bulldog revolver that is worth about $20? Turn it in for a $200 gift card!


Hell, I'm a fire spewing libtard, and I'm fine with using tax dollars to get some broken crap out of circulation. Before I moved, my city used to do a toxic chemicals and electronics day: bring in your old stuff and get rid of it, no questions asked and no charge. Doing the same for guns seems like a fine bit of civic pride (maybe lower the payout to $50 each)
 
2014-02-10 01:31:17 PM  

dittybopper: Headso: it's in the spirit of stealing or scamming the buy back, the program is not intended to get unworkable junk out of some hillbilly's scrap pile.

No it isn't.

All they would have to say is "working guns", or, put a cap on how old the gun is.  No guns over 50 years old, for example.

Of course, guns are one of the few common consumer items that you can buy as a young adult and fully expect that it will be perfectly usable, with due care, into your dotage.




The point of the exercise is often so people (especially politicians and cops) can pose next to a pile of guns afterward and say "look how safe we made you!".
The guns don't have to work for that.

/and there are more effective ways to reduce shootings.
/after school programs and gun safety courses probably get you more safety for the same buck.
 
2014-02-10 01:31:48 PM  

ikanreed: Owning a gun is bad for your family, measurably.  If you want to take that risk, fine, but it doesn't make it less true.


Renting an apartment as opposed to buying a home is even worse.  You're 5.9 times more likely to be killed if you rent instead of own, but only 2.7 times more likely if you keep a loaded gun.

If you just have shotguns and rifles, you're actually *LESS* likely (0.7 and 0.8 times, respectively) to be killed than someone who doesn't own guns at all.

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199310073291506#t=article
 
2014-02-10 01:37:47 PM  

MrSteve007: Thanks for the tips! I'll definitely do that. It's something I've always wanted to get into, and a good skill to have but it does appear to be time consuming.


Yeah, it can be time consuming, but I enjoy it as a hobby.  I shoot maybe a thousand rounds per year of non-military calibers (one is a wildcat) out of bolt action rifles for mostly varmint hunting and target shooting.

One advantage for me is that the accuracy you can typically get out of reloaded ammunition is much better than factory.  If you are plinking with an AR that is not typically a big deal, but if you are shooting eggs at 150 yards with your buddies and the looser buys the beer for the night . . . .
 
2014-02-10 01:40:37 PM  

dittybopper: Renting an apartment as opposed to buying a home is even worse.  You're 5.9 times more likely to be killed if you rent instead of own, but only 2.7 times more likely if you keep a loaded gun.


I rent and I keep a loaded firearm. Should I add the two values, or multiply them?
 
2014-02-10 01:54:18 PM  

HeadLever: Yeah, it can be time consuming, but I enjoy it as a hobby. I shoot maybe a thousand rounds per year of non-military calibers (one is a wildcat) out of bolt action rifles for mostly varmint hunting and target shooting.

One advantage for me is that the accuracy you can typically get out of reloaded ammunition is much better than factory. If you are plinking with an AR that is not typically a big deal, but if you are shooting eggs at 150 yards with your buddies and the looser buys the beer for the night . . . .


Yeah, I have a few rifles with some oddball calibers that I've never been able to shoot. I have a nice, early model Winchester 1886 with .33 win. I don't think that caliber has been manufactured in nearly 80 years. It'd be nice to make a few rounds to try it out.
 
2014-02-10 02:26:17 PM  

MrSteve007: HeadLever: Yeah, it can be time consuming, but I enjoy it as a hobby. I shoot maybe a thousand rounds per year of non-military calibers (one is a wildcat) out of bolt action rifles for mostly varmint hunting and target shooting.

One advantage for me is that the accuracy you can typically get out of reloaded ammunition is much better than factory. If you are plinking with an AR that is not typically a big deal, but if you are shooting eggs at 150 yards with your buddies and the looser buys the beer for the night . . . .

Yeah, I have a few rifles with some oddball calibers that I've never been able to shoot. I have a nice, early model Winchester 1886 with .33 win. I don't think that caliber has been manufactured in nearly 80 years. It'd be nice to make a few rounds to try it out.


I've been working with, on, or around guns pretty much my whole life and never heard of the .33 Win until now.  Interesting.  Couple of sites even have the brass for reloading, but finding the correct set of dies might be tricky.
 
2014-02-10 02:34:30 PM  

MrSteve007: Yeah, I have a few rifles with some oddball calibers that I've never been able to shoot. I have a nice, early model Winchester 1886 with .33 win. I don't think that caliber has been manufactured in nearly 80 years. It'd be nice to make a few rounds to try it out.


That is where reloading really shines.  My grandfather had a early 1900s .40-82 in the 1886 Winchester.

In looking at the .33 WCF, you can still find new brass, but no ammo (at least that I can find).  It is expensive (about $2/per round), but it should last for quite a while.  If you do want to shoot it, make sure that the gun gets a good inspection first (and an appraisal)   The Win 86s generally start at about $1,500, but depending upon shape and year made, they can reach toward 10K pretty quick.
 
2014-02-10 02:40:42 PM  

Skyd1v: but finding the correct set of dies might be tricky.


Dies are still available.  They even make case forming dies if you want to really spend time and money forming your own cases from .45-70 :)
 
2014-02-10 04:09:51 PM  

Dimensio: dittybopper: Renting an apartment as opposed to buying a home is even worse.  You're 5.9 times more likely to be killed if you rent instead of own, but only 2.7 times more likely if you keep a loaded gun.

I rent and I keep a loaded firearm. Should I add the two values, or multiply them?


Don't ask me.  Ask Arthur "43 times" Kellermann.  He's the one that did that research.
 
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