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(Talking Points Memo)   "What Obamacare says about America's work ethic" Wait, America has a work ethic?   (talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 121
    More: Interesting, Michael Peroutka, obamacare, Americans, secular state  
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1163 clicks; posted to Politics » on 10 Feb 2014 at 9:36 AM (36 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-02-10 08:40:19 AM  
This country was built on the backs of hard working industrious patriots! We need to stop making life so easy for these welfare queens and moochers who have never done a hard days work in their lives and spend all their time gaming the system!


Sent from my Motorola Atrix HD while sitting at my desk watching the Olympics live broadcast, eating breakfast and emailing my bookie
 
2014-02-10 08:42:31 AM  
You have to have a work ethic when recording a song as bland as "Horse With No Name", otherwise you run away screaming to relieve the boredom.
 
2014-02-10 08:48:41 AM  
Yes, work harder for less of the pie and keep your heads down. Asking questions like why did we take pay cuts while you had a record Q1 makes you a commie
 
2014-02-10 09:17:16 AM  

Bareefer Obonghit: This country was built on the backs of hard working industrious patriots! We need to stop making life so easy for these welfare queens and moochers who have never done a hard days work in their lives and spend all their time gaming the system!


Sent from my Motorola Atrix HD while sitting at my desk watching the Olympics live broadcast, eating breakfast and emailing my bookie


I'm gonna get frothy here.

Wasn't Obama heavily stressing reducing the income gap/ income disparity in this country?  Didn't he want to focus on reducing that?  Don't the Obama-supporting leftists want to reduce that?  I'll come back to that.

This comment pisses me off perhaps even more than Obama encouraging Americans to work less - and that pisses me off a lot.  I think Ayn Rand called is 'pure smirking evil'.  Something like that.  The poison that is the mentality that working less is better.  I mean that is October Revolution/ Bolshevik-type stuff.  Here you are making light, mocking Republicans for being critical of Obama for saying not working is a good thing.  Well, how does encouraging people not to work help them become more mobile between income classes?  How does encouraging people to let their skill set stagnate help them realize their full potential?

Inside everyone is a yearning for self-realization, self-actualization - even though it may be difficult or challenging or risky.  Even though people may fail.  And here we have a president that is telling Americans not to aspire, not to challenge themselves.  At the end of one's life, how must one feel they just settled for mediocrity and never realized what they were fully capable of?  They never tried or sought to find out what they could achieve?  They just existed within a band that was comfortable.

Obama is no JFK.  JFK challenged people, made Americans aspire.  He dreamed of putting people on the moon.  And guess what happens when you set your goals and expectations high - no matter how hard a challenge it may be?  People find out just how much talent and ability they have inside them, and can exceed even the wildest of expectations.  People find out they are capable of things they never thought they were capable of.  It isn't that working a little less is completely horrible, or their might be some benefits to it and it might be quite comfortable and it might reduce stress.

It is the opportunity lost.  It is the possibilities that are missed.  Instead of his own moonshot, Obama gets stagnation.  Opportunities lost are extremely hard to measure or quantify or visualize, but can be extremely significant.  That is the shame in all this.

And how does encouraging the proletariat to work less close the income gap?  How does encouraging the masses to give up work reduce wealth disparities that you fark leftists want?
 
2014-02-10 09:22:25 AM  

SlothB77: This comment pisses me off perhaps even more than Obama encouraging Americans to work less - and that pisses me off a lot.


you get easily pissed at nonexistent things happening? You may want to get your head checked. Good thing you can afford it under Obamacare
 
2014-02-10 09:29:08 AM  

SlothB77: Bareefer Obonghit: This country was built on the backs of hard working industrious patriots! We need to stop making life so easy for these welfare queens and moochers who have never done a hard days work in their lives and spend all their time gaming the system!


Sent from my Motorola Atrix HD while sitting at my desk watching the Olympics live broadcast, eating breakfast and emailing my bookie

I'm gonna get frothy here.

Wasn't Obama heavily stressing reducing the income gap/ income disparity in this country?  Didn't he want to focus on reducing that?  Don't the Obama-supporting leftists want to reduce that?


I was working on increasing your mom's gap last night

Sent from my Motorola Xoom (WiFi Only) bought with money made from selling black market lobster purchased with food stamps while texting my gay friend on my obamaphone
 
2014-02-10 09:35:37 AM  
the people on the right who carry water for oligarchs don't want a population that is working less because it means that the cost of labor will rise. This is why middle class simps are appealed to with emotional rhetoric and then they repeat like parrots.
 
2014-02-10 09:38:16 AM  
That the US should follow the example of the rest of the civilized world and have illness be the risk of the employer rather than the employee?
 
2014-02-10 09:38:27 AM  

SlothB77: I think Ayn Rand called is 'pure smirking evil'.


I agree, I would also call Ayn Rand "pure smirking evil"
 
2014-02-10 09:41:27 AM  
Americans work horrendous hours and pass all the surplus on to their employers, who fail to ease their burdens or hire help and instead go for more while American workers complain only about those on their level and below while lionizing their superiors.

/dntfa
//did I get it right?
 
2014-02-10 09:41:45 AM  
I thought the American work ethic was:

1. Earn as many beers as you can
2. Drink all the beers

//substitute pot for beer as necessary
 
2014-02-10 09:43:09 AM  

Headso: the people on the right who carry water for oligarchs don't want a population that is working less because it means that the cost of labor will rise. This is why middle class simps are appealed to with emotional rhetoric and then they repeat like parrots.


If Democracy 3 has taught me anything, labor costs increase due to our education levels and immigration policies (increase of immigrants drive down costs since "woo! free labor!" and an uneducated citizenry doesn't understand they're getting screwed as well as not have the skill set to get better jobs) So I guess, at least in one aspect, the GOP actually *is* trying to increase wages by getting rid of immigrants. They despise education so I think their attempt will even itself out.

/seriously, Democracy 3 can humble you in just what you need to do to make this country work without everyone calling for revolution
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2014-02-10 09:44:33 AM  
The .5% do a WHOLE LOT of work while sitting on yachts, private airplanes, and private islands.  They can do more in .5 hours than you lazy 80-hour-per-week janitor types do in a whole year!

//at least that's what the corporate board members tell me.
 
2014-02-10 09:46:12 AM  

somedude210: SlothB77: This comment pisses me off perhaps even more than Obama encouraging Americans to work less - and that pisses me off a lot.

you get easily pissed at nonexistent things happening? You may want to get your head checked. Good thing you can afford it under Obamacare


You know as well as Sloth does that Fartbama's ultimate goal is for EVERYONE IN THE ENTIRE COUNTRY to be unemployed (and make no mistake, having a Government job is the same as being unemployed).
 
2014-02-10 09:46:14 AM  

SlothB77:
I'm gonna get frothy here.

You're going to go on about Santorum?


The poison that is the mentality that working less is better.

Working "less" isn't better. Being paid a living wage for your work is what is the point here. Not to mention, if you are able to somehow be able to work only a 40hr week, it gives you lots of family time. Isn't the Republican party, the party of Family Values™?

Here you are making light, mocking Republicans for being critical of Obama for saying not working is a good thing.  Well, how does encouraging people not to work help them become more mobile between income classes?  How does encouraging people to let their skill set stagnate help them realize their full potential?
It's actually quite the opposite. The ACA is going to bring down "job-lock", which IIRC is what the Republicans have been arguing about for a while. Yeah, some people may take time off work or leave a job so they can get healthy again. Others now can take their skills to another company, or heaven forbid, be an entrepreneur and a Job Creator™. That sounds like a good Republican talking point rihg there.

Inside everyone is a yearning for self-realization, self-actualization - even though it may be difficult or challenging or risky.  Even though people may fail.  And here we have a president that is telling Americans not to aspire, not to challenge themselves.  At the end of one's life, how must one feel they just settled for mediocrity and never realized what they were fully capable of?  They never tried or sought to find out what they could achieve?  They just existed within a band that was comfortable.
Some people don't want to aspire to anything greater. Maybe they are comfortable where they are. If they are making $50K a year, have all their necessities covered, and are generally healthy and happy, why is it a problem if they don't want to aspire to be an investment banker raking in a few hundred grand a year? Some people just want to live their lives....
 
2014-02-10 09:48:21 AM  

SlothB77: [snip for length]


Most of the people who are going to work less as a result of ObamaCare are currently coerced into working in jobs for the sole reason that those jobs provide strong health insurance as a benefit of working that job. If they somehow lost that job and could not immediately find another job, they would be incapable of protecting themselves against catastrophic health expenses that can bankrupt everyone except the most ridiculously rich and/or literally kill them.

Did you hear about the AOL CEO saying that "distressed babies" led to the need to cut back on employee benefits? The mother of one of those babies experienced what the head neonatologist at her hospital called a catastrophic birth. She had absolutely zero warning signs until she went into labor several months early. Should she or her husband be chained to a job like a serf just to make sure that they won't go bankrupt from helping their daughter survive? Should they be yoked to work just to ensure their daughter can get health care in the first place?
 
2014-02-10 09:50:05 AM  

SlothB77: Bareefer Obonghit: This country was built on the backs of hard working industrious patriots! We need to stop making life so easy for these welfare queens and moochers who have never done a hard days work in their lives and spend all their time gaming the system!


Sent from my Motorola Atrix HD while sitting at my desk watching the Olympics live broadcast, eating breakfast and emailing my bookie

I'm gonna get frothy here.

Wasn't Obama heavily stressing reducing the income gap/ income disparity in this country?  Didn't he want to focus on reducing that?  Don't the Obama-supporting leftists want to reduce that?  I'll come back to that.

This comment pisses me off perhaps even more than Obama encouraging Americans to work less - and that pisses me off a lot.  I think Ayn Rand called is 'pure smirking evil'.  Something like that.  The poison that is the mentality that working less is better.  I mean that is October Revolution/ Bolshevik-type stuff.  Here you are making light, mocking Republicans for being critical of Obama for saying not working is a good thing.  Well, how does encouraging people not to work help them become more mobile between income classes?  How does encouraging people to let their skill set stagnate help them realize their full potential?

Inside everyone is a yearning for self-realization, self-actualization - even though it may be difficult or challenging or risky.  Even though people may fail.  And here we have a president that is telling Americans not to aspire, not to challenge themselves.  At the end of one's life, how must one feel they just settled for mediocrity and never realized what they were fully capable of?  They never tried or sought to find out what they could achieve?  They just existed within a band that was comfortable.

Obama is no JFK.  JFK challenged people, made Americans aspire.  He dreamed of putting people on the moon.  And guess what happens when you set your goals and expectations high - no matter how hard a challenge ...


Me sitting here with one finger up my nose and the other finger in my anus can click five buttons on my computer in about five seconds and do the work it used to take ten people back in the 70s a week to do.

It feels good man.
 
2014-02-10 09:53:30 AM  
Are the mods allowing Limbaugh transcripts to be posted now?
 
2014-02-10 09:54:34 AM  

SlothB77: mocking Republicans for being critical of Obama for saying not working is a good thing.


When did Obama say this?
 
2014-02-10 09:54:53 AM  
Translation: "It's morally necessary we keep people frightened for their health and the economic repercussions of any health issues they might have or develop so they continue to work."

This isn't about a work ethic. This is about Americans who cling to their current, specific roles because those roles offer health insurance that protects them from medical bankruptcy and ensures treatment for themselves and their family. Once that insurance is separated from those roles, they can seek out whatever roles the might want.

Obamacare doesn't encourage people to not work. It encourages people to look for different, better work by removing one of the big terrifying anchors of employment from the equation. It offers workers more mobility and discretion for what they do and how they do it, and that  terrifies the job-creator-worshipping economic conservatives who see labor as nothing more than a resource to be exploited and an antagonist to be defeated (and not a vast majority of the population that spends money and makes the economy work).
 
2014-02-10 09:55:26 AM  
We do have a sting work ethic. We work long hours. We work without taking vacation, often foregoing vacations we've earned. We work a lot, often asking nothing of businesses or government in return.
 
2014-02-10 09:57:32 AM  

StopLurkListen: We do have a sting work ethic. We work long hours. We work without taking vacation, often foregoing vacations we've earned. We work a lot, often asking nothing of businesses or government in return.


We have messages in bottles, and fields of gold, and ROXXXXANE!
 
Ask
2014-02-10 09:57:52 AM  
It's hard to have a work ethic when your arms keep falling off.
 
2014-02-10 09:58:24 AM  
What is so noble and pure about working hard?

What is so great about something that takes up about half your waking hours, and keeps you away from family, friends, and things you would rather be doing? I understand that you need some method of acquiring shelter, food, and everything else you need to live, but why make a virtue out of what is for most people an unpleasant chore?

Stop listening to Puritans. Remember: these people were such assholes they got kicked out of England and even the Dutch told them to fark off.
 
2014-02-10 09:59:32 AM  
GOP : Live to Work
Dems: Work to Live
 
2014-02-10 10:02:55 AM  

SlothB77: [snip]


Well, that was a thorough, well-written deconstruction of that strawman in your head.  Good job, you.

Seriously, the problem with your argument is that you think the idea of working less is evil...because you apparently equate labor for your employer with self-improvement.  Yes, may people strive for "self-realization, self-actualization - even though it may be difficult or challenging or risky."  Right now, most of them will never realize it because they are tied to their job for 40-60 hours a week, and are too exhausted when they aren't working to follow their desires for self-realization.  How many people who pick up their guitars on the weekend might be writing new songs if they had the time?  How many people have great code in their heads but writing it down means their company owns it?  How many people want to travel the world but have to somehow squeeze it into the two weeks of vacation they are pressured not to take?

TL;DR your premise that encouraging working less for an employer equals telling everyone to sit on their couch smoking pot is farking stupid, and you should feel bad.
 
2014-02-10 10:03:04 AM  
So if my wife has to leave the home and get a job in order for us to be able to provide health insurance for our kids, she's a bad mother. If she quits her job to stay home and raise the kids because we can now afford healthcare without it*, she's lazy and has no work ethic. I guess as long as we can use either situation to scream about how much we hate the HNIC, it's all good.

*I'm not convinced yet that Obamacare is going to make this a reality. It's certainly not true as of right now.
 
2014-02-10 10:03:34 AM  

Bloody William: Translation: "It's morally necessary we keep people frightened for their health and the economic repercussions of any health issues they might have or develop so they continue to work."

This isn't about a work ethic. This is about Americans who cling to their current, specific roles because those roles offer health insurance that protects them from medical bankruptcy and ensures treatment for themselves and their family. Once that insurance is separated from those roles, they can seek out whatever roles the might want.

Obamacare doesn't encourage people to not work. It encourages people to look for different, better work by removing one of the big terrifying anchors of employment from the equation. It offers workers more mobility and discretion for what they do and how they do it, and that  terrifies the job-creator-worshipping economic conservatives who see labor as nothing more than a resource to be exploited and an antagonist to be defeated (and not a vast majority of the population that spends money and makes the economy work).


Well said...I think we are done here, last one turn off the lights please...
 
2014-02-10 10:05:39 AM  

SlothB77: And how does encouraging the proletariat to work less close the income gap? How does encouraging the masses to give up work reduce wealth disparities that you fark leftists want?


I take it you didn't actually read the CBO report. Its saying that people may choose to retire early, or choose to become stay at home moms, or choose to start their own businesses. Assistance with healthcare doesn't provide someone ability to not work. The truly poor don't worry about healthcare much, they simply don't have it. But there are a ton of moms working simply for health-benefits, when they could be watching their own children and helping to instil family values in them. There are a ton of seniors who are ready to retire, but the burden of healthcare especially for the elderly is just too great. Don't these people deserve to relax a little bit after a lifetime of hard work? There are also a ton of people who want to start their own business, but are terrified in the "what if I get sick, what if my kid gets sick", and instead works the rest of their lives in a dead end job with no purpose.
 
2014-02-10 10:05:50 AM  
Having a high work ethic and no work is very psychologically damaging
 
2014-02-10 10:06:14 AM  
Well, it looks like I might finally have gotten a new job. Sadly it's contract-to-hire after 6 months, so I don't get to qualify for benefits or anything until July-ish.

What Obamacare/The ACA says to me is that I can take that job and work, and according to the info on healthcare.gov, I can qualify for a bronze level healthcare plan for $93/month after the subsidies when I move to Delaware for said job.

So, the work ethic for me, is that I can work, without worrying that getting sick will bankrupt my ass.

I can't wait to work.
 
2014-02-10 10:06:16 AM  

mod3072: So if my wife has to leave the home and get a job in order for us to be able to provide health insurance for our kids, she's a bad mother. If she quits her job to stay home and raise the kids because we can now afford healthcare without it*, she's lazy and has no work ethic. I guess as long as we can use either situation to scream about how much we hate the HNIC, it's all good.

*I'm not convinced yet that Obamacare is going to make this a reality. It's certainly not true as of right now.


Pretty much; everyone is the enemy, depending on the audience they're trying to reach.  Welcome to the big tent.
 
2014-02-10 10:06:23 AM  
If you want good healthcare insurance for yourself and your family you should be required to work for a large corporation. I'm sorry if you THINK you have the skills to make a living with a small business or consulting or whatever. But we the people shouldn't have to subsidise your healthcare just because you think it would be more fun to make and sell furniture from your garage. That takes away from your real value to society as a customer service specialist at Comcast. That's the real problem with universal healthcare. We get a shortage of good company men because they all think they can bootstrap it on their own.
 
2014-02-10 10:06:31 AM  
The people should follow the GOP's example, and work tirelessly in their attempts to repeal Obamacare.  That's a real work effort--you do what you're told and stick at the task, no matter how Sisyphean.
 
2014-02-10 10:07:33 AM  
You only have to look at the rest of the world to see what effect sensible healthcare has on work ethic.

/Hint:  It's no effect.
//Also, this might be a good time to differential work ethic (which is a personality trait) and wage slavery (which is being forced to do something in order to exist).
 
2014-02-10 10:09:02 AM  

SlothB77: I'm gonna get frothy here.

Wasn't Obama heavily stressing reducing the income gap/ income disparity in this country? Didn't he want to focus on reducing that? Don't the Obama-supporting leftists want to reduce that? I'll come back to that.

This comment pisses me off perhaps even more than Obama encouraging Americans to work less - and that pisses me off a lot. I think Ayn Rand called is 'pure smirking evil'. Something like that. The poison that is the mentality that working less is better. I mean that is October Revolution/ Bolshevik-type stuff. Here you are making light, mocking Republicans for being critical of Obama for saying not working is a good thing. Well, how does encouraging people not to work help them become more mobile between income classes? How does encouraging people to let their skill set stagnate help them realize their full potential?

Inside everyone is a yearning for self-realization, self-actualization - even though it may be difficult or challenging or risky. Even though people may fail. And here we have a president that is telling Americans not to aspire, not to challenge themselves. At the end of one's life, how must one feel they just settled for mediocrity and never realized what they were fully capable of? They never tried or sought to find out what they could achieve? They just existed within a band that was comfortable.

Obama is no JFK. JFK challenged people, made Americans aspire. He dreamed of putting people on the moon. And guess what happens when you set your goals and expectations high - no matter how hard a challenge it may be? People find out just how much talent and ability they have inside them, and can exceed even the wildest of expectations. People find out they are capable of things they never thought they were capable of. It isn't that working a little less is completely horrible, or their might be some benefits to it and it might be quite comfortable and it might reduce stress.

It is the ...


With time comes progress and with progress comes technological advancement.  Machines are doing a lot of work.  You cannot create work for the people that just isn't there.  Our technological advancement should not be for profits, but rather should be implemented to lessen the work burden for all.

You sound as if less work is a bad thing... Less work for the profit of a few is a great thing.  With this technological prowess that we have, we need to have radical change in mindset of what work really is.  Instead of benefiting a few work is going to be done for the benefit of many, work will be done on the basis on a personal level, for advancing one's self.

Hell, it was the turn of the last century when people were fighting for the 40 hour work week. Now people often work well over 40 hours just to make ends meet.  We've actually regressed.  For what? Because people enjoy spending most of their lives at work? Because this is what people really want to do? You have a very warped view of labor.  I can only hope that you, and people like you are rapidly fading into obscurity with your arcane beliefs of labor and capital.
 
2014-02-10 10:13:14 AM  

Headso: the people on the right who carry water for oligarchs don't want a population that is working less because it means that the cost of labor will rise. This is why middle class simps are appealed to with emotional rhetoric and then they repeat like parrots.


There it is!
 
2014-02-10 10:16:11 AM  
Give something to rich and it's seen as a necessity for the betterment of humanity.

Give something to the poor and it's going to lead to drug addled indolence, and the destruction of humanity.
 
2014-02-10 10:16:40 AM  
So if I want to retire 10 years early and let you people pay for my health insurance until Medicare kick in, that's a good thing?

Cuz the more I think about it the more I think it's a good thing.

Why the hell should I be working my ass off paying income taxes and Medicare taxes and Social Security taxes when I could be playing golf.
 
2014-02-10 10:17:37 AM  

LarryDan43: If you want good healthcare insurance for yourself and your family you should be required to work for a large corporation. I'm sorry if you THINK you have the skills to make a living with a small business or consulting or whatever. But we the people shouldn't have to subsidise your healthcare just because you think it would be more fun to make and sell furniture from your garage. That takes away from your real value to society as a customer service specialist at Comcast. That's the real problem with universal healthcare. We get a shortage of good company men because they all think they can bootstrap it on their own.


I really can't tell if this is satire or not. Poe's law.
 
2014-02-10 10:18:02 AM  

SlothB77: And how does encouraging the proletariat to work less close the income gap?


Good news! You can put on fresh panties because this isn't happening.
 
2014-02-10 10:22:06 AM  
Want to encourage people to work more, Obamacare foes? Why not propose we tax capital gains at a higher rate than wages? No? Yeah, thought so.
 
2014-02-10 10:23:04 AM  

FarkedOver: With time comes progress and with progress comes technological advancement. Machines are doing a lot of work. You cannot create work for the people that just isn't there. Our technological advancement should not be for profits, but rather should be implemented to lessen the work burden for all.


What happens is the only jobs available require more and more education and training.

And this post contradicts the beginning of Obama's presidency when he was all about creating all these 'shovel-ready' jobs.  Everyone was on board for that, but shovel-ready jobs are really going backwards.
 
2014-02-10 10:23:36 AM  

cchris_39: So if I want to retire 10 years early and let you people pay for my health insurance until Medicare kick in, that's a good thing?

Cuz the more I think about it the more I think it's a good thing.

Why the hell should I be working my ass off paying income taxes and Medicare taxes and Social Security taxes when I could be playing golf.


Gonna live large off those federal subsidies, eh?
 
2014-02-10 10:24:00 AM  

cchris_39: So if I want to retire 10 years early and let you people pay for my health insurance until Medicare kick in, that's a good thing?

Cuz the more I think about it the more I think it's a good thing.

Why the hell should I be working my ass off paying income taxes and Medicare taxes and Social Security taxes when I could be playing golf.


sure, the money to subsidize your care is coming from people who wouldn't be spending it in the local economy on as wide of a variety of goods and services as you are. Get your golf on, breh,
 
2014-02-10 10:24:23 AM  

cchris_39: So if I want to retire 10 years early and let you people pay for my health insurance until Medicare kick in, that's a good thing?

Cuz the more I think about it the more I think it's a good thing.

Why the hell should I be working my ass off paying income taxes and Medicare taxes and Social Security taxes when I could be playing golf.


If you've got enough money to stop working and still afford the fees at the golf course, one wonders why you haven't done so already.

Also, only an idiot thinks that the ACA is "letting you people pay for my health care". Unless, of course, you qualify for Medicaid, in which case I doubt you'll be hitting the golf course any time soon.
 
2014-02-10 10:24:27 AM  

cchris_39: So if I want to retire 10 years early and let you people pay for my health insurance until Medicare kick in, that's a good thing?

Cuz the more I think about it the more I think it's a good thing.


That's because you're an idiot with absolutely no grasp of what's happening.
 
2014-02-10 10:25:24 AM  

SlothB77: shovel-ready jobs are really going backwards.


same with telegraph jobs
 
2014-02-10 10:25:38 AM  
Froth on, you crazy potato.
 
2014-02-10 10:26:32 AM  

Serious Black: Did you hear about the AOL CEO saying that "distressed babies" led to the need to cut back on employee benefits? The mother of one of those babies experienced what the head neonatologist at her hospital called a catastrophic birth.


that was a disgusting thing to say.  AOL and the CEO will suffer a backlash for that.  The good thing about the private sector is that if you run your business like that, your employees are free to leave and go someone else and you will not succeed.
 
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