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(Courthouse News Service)   You know your crazy uncle who said he was tested on during the cold war by the U.S. Army? He may be telling the truth, the government has until Feb 17 to start letting veterans know about what they did to them   (courthousenews.com) divider line 80
    More: Interesting, U.S. Army  
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8048 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Feb 2014 at 8:22 AM (24 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-02-09 02:27:18 AM
Oh the Pandoras box this opens, people start getting notified and they unleash the lawyers on the government if they can prove their chronic health issues are related to the testing.

Although the judge's general reaction after he agreed with the vets, was it happened so long ago, that notifying them now won't save them. But the money they could potentially sue the government for could maybe help them live comfortably.

Although I bet the government will claim national security would be endangered if they had to disclose what they did to our own troops. Bastards.
 
2014-02-09 02:41:04 AM
They knew they were signing their lives away when they signed up.

/just sayin
 
2014-02-09 03:25:06 AM
lh6.ggpht.com
 
2014-02-09 03:43:52 AM
Oh great, I can't wait, he'll be here next month. He thinks YouTube gave his computer viruses for looking at some Kennedy assassination videos. He was also astonished that he could check his email on my computer.
 
2014-02-09 03:45:09 AM

The Repeated Meme: They knew they were signing their lives away when they signed up.


Even I, asshole cynic that I am, must note that when you become a "troop" the usual expectation is that the other side might hurt you. Being intentionally damaged by your own government as part of an experiment should not be part of the bargain.

If only there were a way to take power from those who abuse it.
 
2014-02-09 03:49:14 AM
Soldiers were administered at least 250 and perhaps as many as 400 types of drugs, among them Sarin, one of the most deadly drugs known, amphetamines, barbiturates, mustard gas, phosgene gas and LSD.

We are climbing higher, higher...
 
2014-02-09 06:59:09 AM
www.grolschfilmworks.com
Told ya.
 
2014-02-09 08:26:18 AM

strangeluck: Oh the Pandoras box this opens, people start getting notified and they unleash the lawyers on the government if they can prove their chronic health issues are related to the testing.


You know the thing about the Federal Government, it has to agree to being sued, or you have no case

Many people don't know that
 
2014-02-09 08:32:30 AM
Operation infinite walrus
i.imgur.com
 
2014-02-09 08:32:49 AM
Alright, about 20 more years until I find out if I was experimented on.

/OIF
 
2014-02-09 08:38:21 AM

dantheman195: strangeluck: Oh the Pandoras box this opens, people start getting notified and they unleash the lawyers on the government if they can prove their chronic health issues are related to the testing.

You know the thing about the Federal Government, it has to agree to being sued, or you have no case

Many people don't know that


Kinda closely related to how so many Americans want to keep giving more and more power and authority to that same federal government. Yeah, that's always worked so well in the past.

We're not really going to start getting better until the average American's gut reaction to federal anything is bad. Not saying all federal everything is always bad, but people need to be wary of it. People need to be automatically skeptical whenever the feds step in and say "we'll handle your education/health care/retirement/_____ for you". They already have a monopoly on force. We need to learn that giving them even more power over our lives is almost always a bad deal for us in the end.

Until we stop looking at the people who used sarin and mustard gas on their own soldiers as the ever-caring and benevolent father and provider, we're going to keep digging our grave a little deeper every day.
 
2014-02-09 08:39:30 AM
Kruger: Okay, yeah, sure, fine. I'll take the farking pills and a year later my asshole will turn inside out and start talking to me!
 
2014-02-09 08:40:12 AM
And if you think this could never happen again and that our current government isn't just as crooked, ask the NSA. I'm sure they have some interesting records in their database.
 
2014-02-09 08:41:21 AM
"greatest generation"
 
2014-02-09 08:48:17 AM

make me some tea: [lh6.ggpht.com image 500x338]


One of the old farts I was working with back in the 80s was a career US Navy Machinist who was stationed at Bikini Atoll during the testing of the newfangled H-Bombs back in the late 1950s with retired US Navy or captured Japanese and German warships. The Air force or whoever would set one of those bombs off, and then the crews would go onto the ships that survived the blasts, and repair them. That meant, cleaning the fallout off with brooms and fire hoses and then repainting, rebuilding superstructure and putting them back into a semblance of seaworthiness before the next shot. I think he witnessed over a dozen thermonuclear explosions, really up close. He had to go to the Veterans Hospital every three months for radiation and cancer screening for the rest of his life. As far as I know, he never did get sick from all that.

The other old fart in that shop was one of the survivors of the USS Indianapolis sinking. He retired about a year after I started the apprenticeship.
 
2014-02-09 08:52:06 AM

taurusowner: dantheman195: strangeluck: Oh the Pandoras box this opens, people start getting notified and they unleash the lawyers on the government if they can prove their chronic health issues are related to the testing.

You know the thing about the Federal Government, it has to agree to being sued, or you have no case

Many people don't know that

Kinda closely related to how so many Americans want to keep giving more and more power and authority to that same federal government. Yeah, that's always worked so well in the past.

We're not really going to start getting better until the average American's gut reaction to federal anything is bad. Not saying all federal everything is always bad, but people need to be wary of it. People need to be automatically skeptical whenever the feds step in and say "we'll handle your education/health care/retirement/_____ for you". They already have a monopoly on force. We need to learn that giving them even more power over our lives is almost always a bad deal for us in the end.

Until we stop looking at the people who used sarin and mustard gas on their own soldiers as the ever-caring and benevolent father and provider, we're going to keep digging our grave a little deeper every day.


Step 1 : State Governments need to stop being douchebags to the extent that the federal government needs to a step in on a regular basis to stop them from violating people's constitutional rights.
 
2014-02-09 08:57:51 AM

Deathfrogg: make me some tea: [lh6.ggpht.com image 500x338]

One of the old farts I was working with back in the 80s was a career US Navy Machinist who was stationed at Bikini Atoll during the testing of the newfangled H-Bombs back in the late 1950s with retired US Navy or captured Japanese and German warships. The Air force or whoever would set one of those bombs off, and then the crews would go onto the ships that survived the blasts, and repair them. That meant, cleaning the fallout off with brooms and fire hoses and then repainting, rebuilding superstructure and putting them back into a semblance of seaworthiness before the next shot. I think he witnessed over a dozen thermonuclear explosions, really up close. He had to go to the Veterans Hospital every three months for radiation and cancer screening for the rest of his life. As far as I know, he never did get sick from all that.

The other old fart in that shop was one of the survivors of the USS Indianapolis sinking. He retired about a year after I started the apprenticeship.


On the plus side,we learned so much that this kind of thing could never happen again.
 
2014-02-09 08:59:23 AM
You're right. The primacy of State governments was the way our Republic was originally designed, and for good reason. I'll add local and county governments to that as well. Basically people need to reverse the way they look for solutions, and choose the smallest scale first. Fix it yourself, then local, then county, then state, and federal as the last resort. That way your solutions can be implemented quickest and with people closest to you who understand your individual problems the best, And those solutions (which may not be solutions to everyone) have less of a chance of affecting the lives of others. Something that can be handled locally should not be run by the state. Something that can be handled by the state (which the vast majority of things can) should not be given to the feds. We were even given a list of things that the feds should do and told that everything else lies with the states or the people. Let's just start actually doing that.
 
2014-02-09 09:00:43 AM
Government compensation will be in the form of Mel Gibson Film Festival tickets.

media1.break.com
 
2014-02-09 09:04:07 AM

nekom: Operation infinite walrus


Came here for this. Leaving satisfied.
 
2014-02-09 09:05:55 AM

The One True TheDavid: The Repeated Meme: They knew they were signing their lives away when they signed up.

Even I, asshole cynic that I am, must note that when you become a "troop" the usual expectation is that the other side might hurt you. Being intentionally damaged by your own government as part of an experiment should not be part of the bargain.

If only there were a way to take power from those who abuse it.


taurusowner: dantheman195: strangeluck: Oh the Pandoras box this opens, people start getting notified and they unleash the lawyers on the government if they can prove their chronic health issues are related to the testing.

You know the thing about the Federal Government, it has to agree to being sued, or you have no case

Many people don't know that

Kinda closely related to how so many Americans want to keep giving more and more power and authority to that same federal government. Yeah, that's always worked so well in the past.

We're not really going to start getting better until the average American's gut reaction to federal anything is bad. Not saying all federal everything is always bad, but people need to be wary of it. People need to be automatically skeptical whenever the feds step in and say "we'll handle your education/health care/retirement/_____ for you". They already have a monopoly on force. We need to learn that giving them even more power over our lives is almost always a bad deal for us in the end.

Until we stop looking at the people who used sarin and mustard gas on their own soldiers as the ever-caring and benevolent father and provider, we're going to keep digging our grave a little deeper every day.


Yes, I trust state authorities, like Rick Scott, and the corrupt local police sooooo much more. Devolving power to local authorities sounds so good, but like the gold standard, it's mainly just comforting to people who just like things to sound easy.
Look goober, we live in the 21st century. Your job is to stop electing idiots to the government at every level, and not to go all tea-party just because the federal government isn't perfect. We're too big; we gets us a federal government with lots o' power.
 
2014-02-09 09:08:52 AM

taurusowner: You're right. The primacy of State governments was the way our Republic was originally designed, and for good reason. I'll add local and county governments to that as well. Basically people need to reverse the way they look for solutions, and choose the smallest scale first. Fix it yourself, then local, then county, then state, and federal as the last resort. That way your solutions can be implemented quickest and with people closest to you who understand your individual problems the best, And those solutions (which may not be solutions to everyone) have less of a chance of affecting the lives of others. Something that can be handled locally should not be run by the state. Something that can be handled by the state (which the vast majority of things can) should not be given to the feds. We were even given a list of things that the feds should do and told that everything else lies with the states or the people. Let's just start actually doing that.


It sounds good, but in practice this is wasteful and even less efficient than just letting the Federal government do it in the first place. For example, a single payer healthcare system would work the best on the largest scale possible because that payer would have the maximum amount of bargaining power.
 
2014-02-09 09:19:19 AM

Phil McKraken: taurusowner: You're right. The primacy of State governments was the way our Republic was originally designed, and for good reason. I'll add local and county governments to that as well. Basically people need to reverse the way they look for solutions, and choose the smallest scale first. Fix it yourself, then local, then county, then state, and federal as the last resort. That way your solutions can be implemented quickest and with people closest to you who understand your individual problems the best, And those solutions (which may not be solutions to everyone) have less of a chance of affecting the lives of others. Something that can be handled locally should not be run by the state. Something that can be handled by the state (which the vast majority of things can) should not be given to the feds. We were even given a list of things that the feds should do and told that everything else lies with the states or the people. Let's just start actually doing that.

It sounds good, but in practice this is wasteful and even less efficient than just letting the Federal government do it in the first place. For example, a single payer healthcare system would work the best on the largest scale possible because that payer would have the maximum amount of bargaining power.


Plus you shouldn't have to re-negotiate for your basic civil rights every time you move to a new city/county/state within the US. Or convert your currency. Or learn a new system of weights and measures. Or wonder how safe the food at your local store really is. Etc.

The Articles of Confederation were a flop, and not because we just didn't wish hard enough.
 
2014-02-09 09:21:57 AM
Or I guess you can just keep sucking that federal teat until it's too late to realize it's poison.
 
2014-02-09 09:30:00 AM

Phil McKraken: taurusowner: You're right. The primacy of State governments was the way our Republic was originally designed, and for good reason. I'll add local and county governments to that as well. Basically people need to reverse the way they look for solutions, and choose the smallest scale first. Fix it yourself, then local, then county, then state, and federal as the last resort. That way your solutions can be implemented quickest and with people closest to you who understand your individual problems the best, And those solutions (which may not be solutions to everyone) have less of a chance of affecting the lives of others. Something that can be handled locally should not be run by the state. Something that can be handled by the state (which the vast majority of things can) should not be given to the feds. We were even given a list of things that the feds should do and told that everything else lies with the states or the people. Let's just start actually doing that.

It sounds good, but in practice this is wasteful and even less efficient than just letting the Federal government do it in the first place. For example, a single payer healthcare system would work the best on the largest scale possible because that payer would have the maximum amount of bargaining power.


Yes. Let's put the same people who poisoned their own employees on purpose just to see what happens in charge of deciding whether or not you can go to the hospital. I'm sure that will work out awesome for everyone.
 
2014-02-09 09:31:22 AM

taurusowner: Or I guess you can just keep sucking that federal teat until it's too late to realize it's poison.


Tell that to Monsanto, Cargill, Archer Daniels Midland, British Petroleum, Koch Industries, Royal Dutch Shell, Exxon, Bank of America, Chase, Wal-Mart, General Electric, General Dynamics, Boeing, Lockheed, General Atomic, the Saudi royal Family, Israel, Japan etc etc etc etc etc etc.

They love them that United States Federal money. The one thing that it should be used for is the citizenry, and we're told to GFO if we need a little help getting through college without starving half to death in the process.
 
2014-02-09 09:36:36 AM

Deathfrogg: taurusowner: Or I guess you can just keep sucking that federal teat until it's too late to realize it's poison.

Tell that to Monsanto, Cargill, Archer Daniels Midland, British Petroleum, Koch Industries, Royal Dutch Shell, Exxon, Bank of America, Chase, Wal-Mart, General Electric, General Dynamics, Boeing, Lockheed, General Atomic, the Saudi royal Family, Israel, Japan etc etc etc etc etc etc.

They love them that United States Federal money. The one thing that it should be used for is the citizenry, and we're told to GFO if we need a little help getting through college without starving half to death in the process.


That's called facism. And it's just as wrong as socialism. But you don't only have to pick between one or the other.
 
2014-02-09 09:49:00 AM
All of you debating federal v local are missing a key point: whatever the scale at which power is wielded, credible accountability must exist in proportion to power. (That should go for corporations too BTW.). That's where our lawmakers have resolutely failed pretty much ever since the Republic.

Posters arguing that a strong federal government is necessary for a modern state are correct. We can't roll back the global economy or balance of power to the 19th century. The problem is not centralization or scale, it's the lack of credible accountability.
 
2014-02-09 10:09:01 AM
img.addfunny.com
 
2014-02-09 10:20:49 AM

The Repeated Meme: They knew they were signing their lives away when they signed up.

/just sayin


Except draft
 
2014-02-09 10:24:28 AM

taurusowner: dantheman195: strangeluck: Oh the Pandoras box this opens, people start getting notified and they unleash the lawyers on the government if they can prove their chronic health issues are related to the testing.

You know the thing about the Federal Government, it has to agree to being sued, or you have no case

Many people don't know that

Kinda closely related to how so many Americans want to keep giving more and more power and authority to that same federal government. Yeah, that's always worked so well in the past.

We're not really going to start getting better until the average American's gut reaction to federal anything is bad. Not saying all federal everything is always bad, but people need to be wary of it. People need to be automatically skeptical whenever the feds step in and say "we'll handle your education/health care/retirement/_____ for you". They already have a monopoly on force. We need to learn that giving them even more power over our lives is almost always a bad deal for us in the end.

Until we stop looking at the people who used sarin and mustard gas on their own soldiers as the ever-caring and benevolent father and provider, we're going to keep digging our grave a little deeper every day.


We would have to increase federal spending in order to decrease our dependence. More oversight and regulation for the for-profits that want to take over the jobs that the federal government did, plus enough federal employees to take care of the people too poor to afford the services of the for-profits.
 
2014-02-09 10:28:18 AM

edmo: Deathfrogg: make me some tea: [lh6.ggpht.com image 500x338]

One of the old farts I was working with back in the 80s was a career US Navy Machinist who was stationed at Bikini Atoll during the testing of the newfangled H-Bombs back in the late 1950s with retired US Navy or captured Japanese and German warships. The Air force or whoever would set one of those bombs off, and then the crews would go onto the ships that survived the blasts, and repair them. That meant, cleaning the fallout off with brooms and fire hoses and then repainting, rebuilding superstructure and putting them back into a semblance of seaworthiness before the next shot. I think he witnessed over a dozen thermonuclear explosions, really up close. He had to go to the Veterans Hospital every three months for radiation and cancer screening for the rest of his life. As far as I know, he never did get sick from all that.

The other old fart in that shop was one of the survivors of the USS Indianapolis sinking. He retired about a year after I started the apprenticeship.

On the plus side,we learned so much that this kind of thing could never happen again.


The ship's name is "USS Ronald Reagan".

There are cursed ships. That may be one of them.
 
2014-02-09 10:37:21 AM
www.vehrcommunications.com

Approves
 
2014-02-09 10:42:59 AM

taurusowner: dantheman195: strangeluck: Oh the Pandoras box this opens, people start getting notified and they unleash the lawyers on the government if they can prove their chronic health issues are related to the testing.

You know the thing about the Federal Government, it has to agree to being sued, or you have no case

Many people don't know that

Kinda closely related to how so many Americans want to keep giving more and more power and authority to that same federal government. Yeah, that's always worked so well in the past.

We're not really going to start getting better until the average American's gut reaction to federal anything is bad. Not saying all federal everything is always bad, but people need to be wary of it. People need to be automatically skeptical whenever the feds step in and say "we'll handle your education/health care/retirement/_____ for you". They already have a monopoly on force. We need to learn that giving them even more power over our lives is almost always a bad deal for us in the end.

Until we stop looking at the people who used sarin and mustard gas on their own soldiers as the ever-caring and benevolent father and provider, we're going to keep digging our grave a little deeper every day.


Derpderp!
 
2014-02-09 11:02:09 AM

RedPhoenix122: Alright, about 20 more years until I find out if I was experimented on.

/OIF


If you took your anti-malaria pills (specifically Lariam or the generic brand mefloquine), it has been associated with suicides, depression, and violent tendencies. Word didn't spread too far (got shunned down by the commanders at the time), but I had an NCO out there who had a brother in the pharmaceutical industry. He let him know about it the problems with both Lariam and the generic brand mefloquine, and how it had some pretty goddamn awful long-term side effects, even when taken for a short period of time.
 
2014-02-09 11:07:34 AM
What're they going to whisper it the graves?
 
2014-02-09 11:09:58 AM

The Repeated Meme: They knew they were signing their lives away when they signed up were conscripted.

/just sayin

shiat
 
gja [TotalFark]
2014-02-09 11:10:40 AM

BitwiseShift: Government compensation will be in the form of Mel Gibson Film Festival tickets.

[media1.break.com image 445x366]


So...more abuse?
 
2014-02-09 11:14:32 AM

RoxtarRyan: If you took your anti-malaria pills (specifically Lariam or the generic brand mefloquine), it has been associated with suicides, depression, and violent tendencies. Word didn't spread too far (got shunned down by the commanders at the time), but I had an NCO out there who had a brother in the pharmaceutical industry. He let him know about it the problems with both Lariam and the generic brand mefloquine, and how it had some pretty goddamn awful long-term side effects, even when taken for a short period of time.


I didn't take those, but I did take the mandatory battery of shots.
 
2014-02-09 11:20:02 AM

taurusowner: Deathfrogg: taurusowner: Or I guess you can just keep sucking that federal teat until it's too late to realize it's poison.

Tell that to Monsanto, Cargill, Archer Daniels Midland, British Petroleum, Koch Industries, Royal Dutch Shell, Exxon, Bank of America, Chase, Wal-Mart, General Electric, General Dynamics, Boeing, Lockheed, General Atomic, the Saudi royal Family, Israel, Japan etc etc etc etc etc etc.

They love them that United States Federal money. The one thing that it should be used for is the citizenry, and we're told to GFO if we need a little help getting through college without starving half to death in the process.

That's called facism. And it's just as wrong as socialism.


Fascism, actually.

And the US government already employs socialist policies on a grand scale. Perhaps you've driven on a federal highway, or visited a national park?

Do you think those programs should be abolished?

But you don't only have to pick between one or the other.

So, you're not in favour of universal healthcare because you don't trust the government.

Would you support government reform that would allow US citizens to enjoy the benefits of universal healthcare? After all, most first world nations have some form of universal healthcare, and all citizens in those countries benefit through lower healthcare costs at the point of payment.

I mean, have you seen the fark threads where farkers beg for help with their medical bills? That's sick. Also, it seems that the private companies involved in US healthcare engage in rampant profiteering. Do you think that that's good?
 
2014-02-09 11:21:55 AM
Amphetamines, Barbiturates & LSD!  Hell, we were running are own program, every weekend, down at Ft. Bliss, in 1971.  Hope somebody was taking notes.
 
2014-02-09 11:46:57 AM

The One True TheDavid: The Repeated Meme: They knew they were signing their lives away when they signed up.

Even I, asshole cynic that I am, must note that when you become a "troop" the usual expectation is that the other side might hurt you. Being intentionally damaged by your own government as part of an experiment should not be part of the bargain.

If only there were a way to take power from those who abuse it.


There is.

But you have to TAKE it from them. Not ask nicely for it to be given back.

The second paragraph of the Declaration of Independence charges us with the duty to do so!

And I quote:

"When the list of bullshiat gets long enough, grab the gun and take down the assholes"

you're also supposed to write them a letter telling them:

"you farked up, here's why. we're going to take on new management now. Thank you for your time and service and apologies in advance for all your shiat we're about to fark up"

/and by quote I mean loosely paraphrase
//I got my army cocktail right alongside all the other idiot youth (and other patriotic morons)
 
2014-02-09 11:50:16 AM
In Desert Storm, we had our own "mystery drug." We were not told what that shot was for, what was in it, nothing. We did know it was experimental. If we refused the shot, we wouldn't get paid that month.

At least the medic administering them was cool enough to give us a hint at what that injection was: "It has the same name as a heavy metal band."

www.metalsucks.net
 
2014-02-09 11:50:19 AM
ellecross.files.wordpress.com
 
2014-02-09 11:51:24 AM

WordyGrrl: In Desert Storm, we had our own "mystery drug." We were not told what that shot was for, what was in it, nothing. We did know it was experimental. If we refused the shot, we wouldn't get paid that month.

At least the medic administering them was cool enough to give us a hint at what that injection was: "It has the same name as a heavy metal band."

[www.metalsucks.net image 400x165]


Black Sabbath?
Judas Priest?
 
2014-02-09 11:55:57 AM
Crap, *I'm* the crazy uncle in my family, and served.  Guess I gotta keep an eye on the mailbox...
 
2014-02-09 11:57:52 AM

WordyGrrl: In Desert Storm, we had our own "mystery drug." We were not told what that shot was for, what was in it, nothing. We did know it was experimental. If we refused the shot, we wouldn't get paid that month.

At least the medic administering them was cool enough to give us a hint at what that injection was: "It has the same name as a heavy metal band."

[www.metalsucks.net image 400x165]


Uh, Poison?
 
2014-02-09 12:06:23 PM
The crap they used to make Soldiers go through during the nuclear weapon testing of the '40s through '60s proves to me that the government would have no problem experimenting on Soldiers.

Hell it's been proven fairly recently through the strongarm tactics used to get FDA approval for the anthrax vaccine after it was suspended around 2006.
 
2014-02-09 12:28:27 PM
Was in the infantry (03) in the USMC.  During boot, training, and practically whenever else we'd be lined up and have lots of injections.  There would be a gauntlet of sorts that we'd walk through - a person on either side doing an IM shot in the shoulder, then you step forward and a person on either side punches you in the shoulder, then a step forward and two more shots to the shoulder, then a step forward and two more punches to the shoulder, etc.  Happened on many occasions, and there would be many shots given in these gauntlets.  I have all my service personnel and medical records, and tried somewhat to ask at the time what was being done...nota.

Of course, this was the early 90s, so surely by then they weren't doing anything bad...right?

oddly enough, I do have a parkinsonian disorder now, which after 3 years of testing - spinal taps, muscle biopsies, cat scans, etc - can be observed as definitely being real and being caused by the central nervous system, but is a mystery otherwise.  Fortunately, Sinemet works for me!  So long as I don't mind being really angry sometimes (I have short bursts of not having the problem naturally, but the Sinemet is still on board during those times so...look up what taking dopamine regularly can do to you).   I get to choose two options on any given day:  a working brain (focus, memory), relief from tremendous pain, or not wanting to kill people.  Probably has nothing to do with whatever they gave me back then, but...I'm excellent conspiracy theory material!

//CSB?
 
2014-02-09 12:33:46 PM
Anyone stupid enough to go into the military today deserves whatever they get. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that the whole f*cking capitalist world is nothing but a game of master/slave manipulation. These poor f*cks during the early atomic age were just about the last straw (my dad was one of them). There is nothing left of transparency or democracy in our future, and the best thing we can do is viva la revolución or something.

I'll be right back, someone's at the door


bookhaven.stanford.edu
 
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