Do you have adblock enabled?
 
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(AZCentral)   Principal removes 'Things I Have to Tell You: Poems and Writing by Teenage Girls' from the library because it depicts the euphoric feelings of smoking crack. "It didn't point out that she might have died of a heart attack or become a sex slave"   ( azcentral.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, Stapley, Mesa's Stapley Junior High School, heart attacks, banned books, American Library Association, poems, smoking  
•       •       •

2374 clicks; posted to Main » on 08 Feb 2014 at 8:28 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



66 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


Oldest | « | 1 | 2 | » | Newest | Show all

 
2014-02-09 12:30:38 AM  
Pfft... middle school was when we got all the controversial books for teenagers. That's when kids start thinking for themselves. Letting them read about such topics in frank ways is vastly better than leaving it to them to figure it out on their own, which they will.
Back then, I was reading books full of explicit sex, which nobody suspected because they were science fiction. It wasn't until I was in high school that I got my hands on a REAL controversial book - The Last Temptation of Christ.
 
2014-02-09 12:50:36 AM  

oh_please: I'm sure that there are plenty of folks who are comfortable with their 14-year-olds reading this, but that's a parental decision...not something that a junior HS should offer up in their library.


Yeah, I consider myself a first amendment fundamentalist, and I can't work up much outrage over this.
 
2014-02-09 01:05:15 AM  
But whar is da crack pipe vending machine?!

I thought thar'd be a...?

/dammit!
 
2014-02-09 01:28:58 AM  

oh_please: Gyrfalcon: What is your point here?
My original point WAS that poetry about sex and drug use wouldn't fly in a public junior HS library, because of it's controversial content. I thought it would be obvious to everyone. I even made an over-the-top joke that I couldn't wait for people to compare this to Hitler and book burning.

Sure enough, everyone took me at my word, and lost their collective minds, ranging from bragging about all the sex books they read at a young age, to literally wishing me dead.

The thing is, I tried to be nice early on and discuss, but the FARK BrigadeTM was having none of that.

I'm torn...should I be offended at all the pitchforks and torches, or should I be laughing my ass off?


Well, then, your original point was completely wrong, because public junior high school libraries are rife with controversial content. The problem is that regardless of whatever you call "controversial" there's always someone willing and able to set the bar even lower, until Beatrix Potter books would be too controversial for some people. My rebuttal to your argument was that in my very own public school junior high, there were multiple copies of the exceptionally controversial (for the time) (forty years ago now) "Go Ask Alice", "That Was Then, This is Now", Judy Blume's books on periods and wet dreams, and the early 70's drugs-are-bad books. So you have to expect that people are going to come back on you saying WHAT?!? when you make the somewhat naive comment that a book about drugs and sex "won't fly" in a junior high school library, given that most of us grew up in junior high school libraries in a much more straitlaced age, where they quite simply DID fly.

Which is why I asked what your point was, exactly. If it is that these kinds of books "won't fly" in middle schools, well, sorry, but in fact they DO, except where pearl-clutching parents and administrators preemptively remove them. It isn't that the KIDS are horrified by the topics, because they are acutely aware of sex, drugs and consequences and need to discuss them; and it isn't most PARENTS who are horrified; it's just a few individuals who evidently believe that if kids aren't exposed to the topics, they won't think about it, and if they don't think about it, then bad things won't happen to them. If that is your position, then I assume you are against the reading of, for instance, "Romeo and Juliet," with its underage sex and street violence; "The Hunger Games" for obvious reasons; or having copies of "Call of the Wild" or "Sleepy Hollow" in the library (all that drinking and gratuitous violence).
 
2014-02-09 01:29:20 AM  
i306.photobucket.com
 
2014-02-09 01:58:30 AM  
Waitaminit how did subby start a headline off with the word principal and not immediately caught sayof?
 
2014-02-09 05:04:19 AM  

oh_please: Gyrfalcon: What is your point here?
My original point WAS that poetry about sex and drug use wouldn't fly in a public junior HS library, because of it's controversial content. I thought it would be obvious to everyone. I even made an over-the-top joke that I couldn't wait for people to compare this to Hitler and book burning.

Sure enough, everyone took me at my word, and lost their collective minds, ranging from bragging about all the sex books they read at a young age, to literally wishing me dead.

The thing is, I tried to be nice early on and discuss, but the FARK BrigadeTM was having none of that.

I'm torn...should I be offended at all the pitchforks and torches, or should I be laughing my ass off?


I did book reports on Steven King books in seventh and eighth grade. They had sex, drugs, and violence in them. It's no big deal. And I didn't even have parents that talked to me about the books. I survived and so will every other kid ready some whiny poem about crack smoking.

What kind of lame library did you have? Was this in the holler our something?
 
2014-02-09 05:27:10 AM  

flondrix: oh_please: I'm sure that there are plenty of folks who are comfortable with their 14-year-olds reading this, but that's a parental decision...not something that a junior HS should offer up in their library.

Yeah, I consider myself a first amendment fundamentalist, and I can't work up much outrage over this.


I agree - this is not some book burning issue.It's a judgement call, and legitimately so.
But, that having been said - I question the judgement behind this call.
When we talk to our kids about drugs, the very worst thing we can do is lie to them - that always ends very, very badly.
And sooner or later, when we warn our kids about some of the terrible things some drugs can do to them, the awkward moment will come.
The moment when your kid asks "Why would anybody even DO that, Daddy?"
It's tough - because you don't want to say anything that will make drugs seem attractive - but to say something like "well, because they are crazy and stupid and sick, honey", or " because their bad friends got them to do it" or "Just to try to be cool"  or "because they can't handle life"- we are lying to them.
The real truth is that people take drugs because they provide intense, easily obtained pleasure.
That is the truth, and that is what we need to tell them.
That carries with it the complexity and nuance of having to explain the chief lesson of life - that pleasure and gratification, cheaply and easily obtained, has a terrible price, and that experiences of value must be earned, and built from within.
But, you know what? Kids are smart - smarter than we give them credit for, usually. They get it, when it is explained to them and taught by example - but it is only the example part that really takes, in the long run.
 
2014-02-09 08:03:21 AM  

digitalrain: cuzsis: I see the "OMG it's a book and therefor needs to be read!" crowd is here. 

 Look, not all books are worth the paper they're printed on. Just because someone has an opinion on something and wants to be "artistic" with it, doesn't mean they have a good or well thought out opinion. School resources are limited and they *should* be picky about the books they decide to put on their shelves. They *should* be looking for books that are well written, appropriate for the age level that will be reading it, and cover the topic in a mature and educated matter.

 If this book doesn't make the cut, well, sucks to be the author. They need to write a better book.

I agree with part of what you said. Not all literary efforts are diamonds. Some are destined to remain lumps of coal. But you take books like "Go Ask Alice", "To Kill a Mockingbird", "A Wrinkle in Time", any of the "Harry Potter" books, etc... they are solid books that are worth kids taking the time to read. I realize that is just my opinion. But so is this - pay attention to what your kids are reading. If you don't want them reading something, fine. That's your perogative. But don't try to dictate what other parents should or shouldn't let their kids read just b/c you've got a burr up your ass.

/ and by 'your' I mean the complaining parents


No one is trying to with-hold or tell people that no kid should read book X ever, there's always the public library and e-books and the internet at large. Schools are always in a position of CYA(cover your ass).  If some parents don't want their kids reading X specifically, they're not dictating that other kids cannot read it, they're only making it less available at one location.

For them to remove a book that poetically describes, maybe romanticizes, the high that crack gives is totally reasonable.

This is not book burning people.
 
2014-02-09 08:36:05 AM  
"what am I supposed to tell my kid?"

These eight words seem to be at the heart of many of these 'banning issues', so Let's be really clear; you can say anything you want to your little boy or girl - THAT IS YOUR JOB AS A PARENT. The simplest thing to say to them is :

"Sometimes People - Including Authors and Parents - Are wrong about things, but on most things, most people agree. What did you find XXX about this book, and how can I help you make your own mind up about it? I know I have raised you to be an intelligent, compassionate, sensible person, and together we can make sense of this, even if we have to look stuff p or talk about it over and over - because I love you."

THAT IS WHAT YOU SAY. And then you listen carefully, and say "good bye" in your head to that round of Golf you wanted to play this afternoon.

Of course none of this makes sense when you are screaming at your teenager. I suspect this is the real problem - their child no longer seeks their guidance or is relying more on other people for their self-affirmation.
 
2014-02-09 08:53:05 AM  
From the second line of TFA:

"Things I Have to Tell You: Poems and Writing by Teenage Girls, compiled by Betsy Franco, will be offered to the Mountain View High School library, Stapley Principal Ken Erickson said."

It's a non-issue. Literally nothing to see here. Go home.
 
2014-02-09 09:12:15 AM  

sendtodave: AdrienVeidt: sendtodave: I don't see why public schools have any books other than textbooks or assigned reading.

Kids can read for fun on their own time.

And the textbooks assigned books should be agreed upon by all the parents.  A school shouldn't teach things that go against a parent's values.

That's three opinions you stated; and three opinions you got completely wrong.

Opinions can't be wrong.

And that's a fact.


It's my opinion that they can be, and multiple facts show that they can be.
 
2014-02-09 09:44:45 AM  

AdrienVeidt: sendtodave: AdrienVeidt: sendtodave: I don't see why public schools have any books other than textbooks or assigned reading.

Kids can read for fun on their own time.

And the textbooks assigned books should be agreed upon by all the parents.  A school shouldn't teach things that go against a parent's values.

That's three opinions you stated; and three opinions you got completely wrong.

Opinions can't be wrong.

And that's a fact.

It's my opinion that they can be, and multiple facts show that they can be.


Feeling =\= Opinion
Mistaken Belief =\= Opinion
Wild guess or wager or prediction based only very loosely on logic =\= Opinion
Coming to a conclusion on X without a full comprehension of said topic =\= Opinion

Really, it comes down to the definition of opinion.  Opinion, in it's more traditional sense, cannot be wrong, as it's purely subjective based on taste or preference of an individual.

If you want to nullify the meaning of Opinion down to how the lowest common denominator of ignorant dolts misuse of the word, then yes, opinions can be objective and therefore factual.
 
2014-02-09 05:11:20 PM  

omeganuepsilon: digitalrain: cuzsis: I see the "OMG it's a book and therefor needs to be read!" crowd is here. 

 Look, not all books are worth the paper they're printed on. Just because someone has an opinion on something and wants to be "artistic" with it, doesn't mean they have a good or well thought out opinion. School resources are limited and they *should* be picky about the books they decide to put on their shelves. They *should* be looking for books that are well written, appropriate for the age level that will be reading it, and cover the topic in a mature and educated matter.

 If this book doesn't make the cut, well, sucks to be the author. They need to write a better book.

I agree with part of what you said. Not all literary efforts are diamonds. Some are destined to remain lumps of coal. But you take books like "Go Ask Alice", "To Kill a Mockingbird", "A Wrinkle in Time", any of the "Harry Potter" books, etc... they are solid books that are worth kids taking the time to read. I realize that is just my opinion. But so is this - pay attention to what your kids are reading. If you don't want them reading something, fine. That's your perogative. But don't try to dictate what other parents should or shouldn't let their kids read just b/c you've got a burr up your ass.

/ and by 'your' I mean the complaining parents

No one is trying to with-hold or tell people that no kid should read book X ever, there's always the public library and e-books and the internet at large. Schools are always in a position of CYA(cover your ass).  If some parents don't want their kids reading X specifically, they're not dictating that other kids cannot read it, they're only making it less available at one location.

For them to remove a book that poetically describes, maybe romanticizes, the high that crack gives is totally reasonable.

This is not book burning people.


The point is, it was written by teenagers. It's exactly the sort of thing that belongs in a school library.
 
2014-02-09 06:50:18 PM  

Abacus9: The point is, it was written by teenagers. It's exactly the sort of thing that belongs in a school library.


That's an awkward leap, surprised you don't injure yourself with things like that.

Same true for teen rapists, murderers, and such if they were decide to wax poetic about how good their exploits felt?  Or do you draw an arbitrary line at hard drug use?
 
2014-02-09 07:28:06 PM  

Abacus9: omeganuepsilon: digitalrain: cuzsis: I see the "OMG it's a book and therefor needs to be read!" crowd is here. 

 Look, not all books are worth the paper they're printed on. Just because someone has an opinion on something and wants to be "artistic" with it, doesn't mean they have a good or well thought out opinion. School resources are limited and they *should* be picky about the books they decide to put on their shelves. They *should* be looking for books that are well written, appropriate for the age level that will be reading it, and cover the topic in a mature and educated matter.

 If this book doesn't make the cut, well, sucks to be the author. They need to write a better book.

I agree with part of what you said. Not all literary efforts are diamonds. Some are destined to remain lumps of coal. But you take books like "Go Ask Alice", "To Kill a Mockingbird", "A Wrinkle in Time", any of the "Harry Potter" books, etc... they are solid books that are worth kids taking the time to read. I realize that is just my opinion. But so is this - pay attention to what your kids are reading. If you don't want them reading something, fine. That's your perogative. But don't try to dictate what other parents should or shouldn't let their kids read just b/c you've got a burr up your ass.

/ and by 'your' I mean the complaining parents

No one is trying to with-hold or tell people that no kid should read book X ever, there's always the public library and e-books and the internet at large. Schools are always in a position of CYA(cover your ass).  If some parents don't want their kids reading X specifically, they're not dictating that other kids cannot read it, they're only making it less available at one location.

For them to remove a book that poetically describes, maybe romanticizes, the high that crack gives is totally reasonable.

This is not book burning people.

The point is, it was written by teenagers. It's exactly the sort of thing that belongs in a school library.


This. This is ONE poem. Out of how many in the book?

CSB time...

When I was a kid, I spent two weeks each summer at camp. A couple of those years, it was a camp run by a Baptist church in our area. Among the books I brought with me was a book of poetry about cats. One of the poems was from the cat's point of view and in it the cat was the embodiment of Satan, commanding mere mortals to do its bidding.

They wanted me to burn the book in front of the whole camp. I refused and told them that if they had an issue with it, they were more than welcome to reach out to my folks to come get me - with a full refund of camp dues, of course. I didn't hear anything further about it after that.

/ end CSB
 
Displayed 16 of 66 comments


Oldest | « | 1 | 2 | » | Newest | Show all


View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
On Twitter





Top Commented
Javascript is required to view headlines in widget.

In Other Media
  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report