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(CBC)   If you had one day until the first alleged scandal at the Olympics, step right up and claim your prize   (olympics.cbc.ca) divider line 56
    More: Interesting, Figure skating at the Olympic Games, l'Equipe, world championship, figure skating, Winter Olympics  
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4687 clicks; posted to Sports » on 08 Feb 2014 at 3:06 PM (23 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-02-08 02:12:48 PM
The Canadians and Americans train together and have the same coach.  The worst kept secret in skating was it was the American's turn this year.   Right sport, wrong scandal.  Though I like the idea of it taking the Russians AND Americans to conspire to beat the Canadians.
 
2014-02-08 03:12:20 PM
It's the Olympics, why would this be a surprise?
 
2014-02-08 03:15:34 PM
Good.  F Canada, bunch of beadie eyed bastards.
 
2014-02-08 03:16:29 PM
Damn, I had -56
 
2014-02-08 03:25:06 PM
Oh, people still think international figure skating isn't as fixed as Rasslin' or NASCAR.
 
2014-02-08 03:26:58 PM
Virtue and Moir had a hard time these past couple of years anyways.  No worries if they win the Silver.

/Tessa will always be gold to me.
//super cutie
 
2014-02-08 03:27:29 PM
USA USA USA USA USA
 
2014-02-08 03:28:48 PM
Subby, I don't think this is the first scandal at just these Olympics.

Still, corrupt judging at figure skating should hardly qualify.  It should be removed as a medal sport.
 
2014-02-08 03:30:55 PM

mikaloyd: USA USA USA USA USA


Anytime I see that I always convert it to 'DERP DERP DERP' in my head.
 
2014-02-08 03:36:27 PM
Fortunately the skating event that matters will be settled by counting how many times a puck goes into a net (and the occasional bad call).

Hoping for another Canada vs US final.
 
2014-02-08 03:40:26 PM
Why is this in sports? Figure skating is a talent competition (like American idol), not a sport.
 
2014-02-08 04:12:35 PM
They should combine figure skating and boxing together to form the most corrupt judging sport in the history of the world!
 
2014-02-08 04:16:01 PM
I think they should just pull a name out of a hat. That way all this damn figure skating would not be on TV.

Seriously show some other damn sports in prime time NBC FFS.
 
2014-02-08 04:21:28 PM

MFAWG: Oh, people still think international figure skating isn't as fixed as Rasslin' or NASCAR.


www.sportsnet.ca

ARE YOU NOT SPORTS ENTERTAINED?
 
2014-02-08 04:21:59 PM

Trocadero: They should combine figure skating and boxing together to form the most corrupt judging sport in the history of the world!


I would definitely watch boxing on skates. IOC, make this happen!
 
2014-02-08 04:23:47 PM
media.egotvonline.com

I wish Happy Gilmore would stab this canadian with a Skate

www.billboard.com
 
2014-02-08 04:25:17 PM
Whatever.  Flappy-headed bums have it coming to them.
 
2014-02-08 04:38:32 PM

insano: Trocadero: They should combine figure skating and boxing together to form the most corrupt judging sport in the history of the world!

I would definitely watch boxing on skates. IOC, make this happen!


It must combine the elegance of figure skating with the brutality of fighting ...I'm thinking ninja on ice.

/triple lutz kick to the head!
 
2014-02-08 04:38:39 PM
This doesn't really qualify as a scandal.  Well, not until the Canadian women's curling team are kneecapped with some sort of a metal baton.  WWHHHYYYYYYYYYYYYYY?
 
2014-02-08 04:58:05 PM

006andahalf: Whatever.  Flappy-headed bums have it coming to them.


 I'm getting a kick out of this post.
 
2014-02-08 05:38:42 PM
Any activity that involves style points is not a sport.
 
2014-02-08 05:39:50 PM

change1211: mikaloyd: USA USA USA USA USA

Anytime I see that I always convert it to 'DERP DERP DERP' in my head.


Yeah well, people like you would... wouldn't they?

/Farking metric system.
 
2014-02-08 05:40:19 PM
Figure skating should just be "which girl is hottest". Easier and simple
 
2014-02-08 06:16:47 PM

FloridaFarkTag: Figure skating should just be "which girl is hottest". Easier and simple


Then it would just be ice porn. Which would be a vastly superior sport.
 
2014-02-08 06:28:42 PM

TheSlothAlive: Hoping for another Canada vs US final.


Different outcome this time though...

/our turn
 
2014-02-08 06:41:50 PM
So subby doesn't count the dog culling, the unfinished and piss-poor facilities (one athlete tweeted that she nearly went the way of Rosalind Shays of LA Law by falling down an elevator shaft), and the Russian attitude towards gays as scandals?
 
2014-02-08 06:59:07 PM

2wolves: Any activity that involves style points is not a sport.


meh, some style points aren't bad.  plenty of sports have a small portion of their scoring system based on judges.  The big difference is that most sports have a generally defined point system (aka how far you jumped, how fast you went, how many poles you touched/missed etc...) with some judging thrown it at the end to finalize the total score.  Figure Skating is almost entirely objective though which is why it continues to be plagued by corruption.  They need to go with how gymnastics went and create a more defined point/penalty system.  Take most of the points issuing out of the judges hands and just let them fine tune the performance at the end rather then decide the whole thing.
 
2014-02-08 07:26:54 PM

Guelph35: Why is this in sports? Figure skating is a talent competition (like American idol), not a sport.


No, see, there was this farker on a few weeks ago arguing that skating is objectively scored. Wonder where he is now?
 
2014-02-08 07:30:39 PM

5 star chef of tv dinners: meh, some style points aren't bad. plenty of sports have a small portion of their scoring system based on judges. The big difference is that most sports have a generally defined point system (aka how far you jumped, how fast you went, how many poles you touched/missed etc...) with some judging thrown it at the end to finalize the total score. Figure Skating is almost entirely objective though which is why it continues to be plagued by corruption. They need to go with how gymnastics went and create a more defined point/penalty system. Take most of the points issuing out of the judges hands and just let them fine tune the performance at the end rather then decide the whole thing.


This is fine, however it discourages creativity. And for sports like snowboarding halfpipe and slopestyle, risk-taking and creativity are endemic to the spirit of the contest. And they are afraid that if you set down objective, technical criteria for performance, then athletes will work towards maximizing that criteria and play it safe, and gone is the creativity.

Really, it comes down to this: Who would you give the medal to, the athlete who has a more difficult routine but stumbles, or the athlete who has an easier routine but flawless? If it's the former, then you're discouraging execution and rewarding failure, and if it's the latter, then you're discouraging creativity and rewarding conservative performances.
 
2014-02-08 07:39:15 PM

Piizzadude: TheSlothAlive: Hoping for another Canada vs US final.

Different outcome this time though...

/our turn


A rematch would be a great game, the final could have very easily gone the other way last time.
 
2014-02-08 08:43:13 PM

FloridaFarkTag: Figure skating should just be "which girl is hottest". Easier and simple


I think the Canadians would have a lock on that one.  The American woman in ice dancing is creepy looking. She looks like some sort of animated doll with too much makeup.
 
2014-02-08 09:20:49 PM
The Canadian media has always assumed it's a conspiracy when their #1 ice dancing team loses.  This is not new to Virtue & Moir, as anyone who remembers the Bourne & Kraatz era could tell you.

Given that Davis & White (rightfully) haven't lost a competition in two years, I'd be more inclined to think the judging is fixed if they skate cleanly and DON'T win.  The beauty of this "news," though, is that now even if they win because they legitimately outskate the other teams - which they probably will - their gold medal is going to be called into question.  Or they'll lose just because the judges will be so eager to prove that the competition isn't fixed.  What a bunch of bullshiat.
 
2014-02-08 09:47:22 PM

hooligan sidekick: The Canadian media has always assumed it's a conspiracy when their #1 ice dancing team loses.  This is not new to Virtue & Moir, as anyone who remembers the Bourne & Kraatz era could tell you.



Two comments:

It is a fact that it happened in the past.

L'Equipe is French, not Canadian.
 
2014-02-08 09:52:02 PM
God I love Tessa and Scott. Hope they don't get screwed by corruption.
 
2014-02-08 10:26:58 PM

hooligan sidekick: The Canadian media has always assumed it's a conspiracy when their #1 ice dancing team loses.  This is not new to Virtue & Moir, as anyone who remembers the Bourne & Kraatz era could tell you.

Given that Davis & White (rightfully) haven't lost a competition in two years, I'd be more inclined to think the judging is fixed if they skate cleanly and DON'T win.  The beauty of this "news," though, is that now even if they win because they legitimately outskate the other teams - which they probably will - their gold medal is going to be called into question.  Or they'll lose just because the judges will be so eager to prove that the competition isn't fixed.  What a bunch of bullshiat.


Salé  & Pelletier might be who you were thinking of, and they got a post games gold medal and the judging shenanigans got the way the skating is judged changed.

& Davis&White v. Virtue&Moir, V&M won the worlds 2 years ago and the Olympic gold last time.  (and Virtue had the injury last year) both pairs are very good, and the Canadians are peeking, but both teams share a coach, and it's Davis & White's turn for the gold... they have been splitting up the 1st's pretty evenly so far... and neither pair will be around for the next Olympics...
 
2014-02-08 10:30:47 PM

hooligan sidekick: Given that Davis & White (rightfully) haven't lost a competition in two years,


Arguable. The problem with judged sports is that no matter how good someone is, others will get their "turn". Virtue/Moir have been dominating Ice Dancing for so long that it seems inevitable that the judges give their closest competitor a chance. The 2013 World Championships were some fuzzy math -- Virtue/Moir were second because Davis/White won the presentation or artistic categories, which Virtue/Moir normally rule.

These two couples, who train at the same rink in Canton, Mich., and share the same coaches, are considered a cut above the rest of the competition, and generally close in skills. Experts from high-ranking ice dancing officials and others from Canada, United States, and Europe, weigh in on the strengths and weaknesses of both:

SPEED
Davis and White are known for their speed and their memorable routine to Die Fledermaus a couple of years ago, which stuck in the mind of MacIntosh. "It was like they had wings," he said. However, there is a difference between speed and power. Virtue and Moir are the most powerful skaters in the world, says Ann Shaw, a Canadian who originally set out the code of points for ice dancing. White sometimes gathers speed by "wide-stepping" like a hockey player, one expert said. Davis gains speed with hops and jumps, not edges. The rules specifically discourage excessive amounts of toe steps. On the other hand, Virtue and Moir derive their speed from rhythmic knee action, which makes the stroke appear effortless.

VARIATION OF SPEED
Davis and White go full-tilt throughout the program. Virtue and Moir vary their speed, and with their knees they can build up top speed in a few strokes. It's also a sign of good edge quality. The scoring system is supposed to award variation in speed.

TRANSITIONS
Davis and White skate often while facing in the same direction; Virtue and Moir vary dance holds and change direction constantly and seamlessly. The Canadians also skate closer together, which is much riskier, than Davis and White.

LINE
Neither Davis nor White extend their free legs .Davis skates often with a bent knee, and they bend forward from the waist, more like free skaters and less like dancers. Virtue and Moir straighten their knees and point their toes, always in alignment. 'Meryl tends to be clunky with her feet," one expert said.

BODY MOVEMENT
Davis and White, said one expert, have excellent projection and timing, but they are rather stiff outside of stationary movements. They use their arms a lot, (one expert said they tend to flail them) but they don't do much with their chests, shoulders, hips, backs. That makes it easier for them to maintain balance. Virtue and Moir, on the other hand, use their entire bodies to interpret music - and it's a lot more to manage. Virtue in particular has a very mobile torso.

FOOTWORK
The size of the curves, the better the edge quality. Davis and White have rather small entry and exit curves during footwork. Virtue and Moir trace huge arcs with their edges both in and out of turns.

LIFTS
You will often see Davis rest her free leg on White or have him hold it for her so she doesn't have to use her own strength to extend it. Davis often relies on White to carry her. In Virtue and Moir's lifts, there are fewer points of contact and Virtue extends her own free leg. The positions in their lifts require a lot of strength in Virtue's core, and hips and back.

LOOKS
Tessa Virtue is cuter. Meryl Davis looks like a real doll.


/yah, I pay attention to this shiat
//no, I am not gay
///what of it?
 
2014-02-08 10:40:27 PM

sno man: Salé & Pelletier might be who you were thinking of,


Bourne & Kraatz too.

Screwing over the polite, meek Canadians has become something of a tradition in the Olympics.
 
2014-02-08 11:13:52 PM

Ishkur: Meryl Davis looks like a real doll.


My wife and I have had this discussion a few times, As a fan of LOTR, I go with Elven...  Her take is more alien that almost gets how to look human...
 
2014-02-08 11:32:46 PM

sno man: Ishkur: Meryl Davis looks like a real doll.

My wife and I have had this discussion a few times, As a fan of LOTR, I go with Elven...  Her take is more alien that almost gets how to look human...


So she is in the uncanny valley?
 
2014-02-08 11:33:45 PM

dywed88: L'Equipe is French, not Canadian.


Yeah, but the Canadian media is going to accept this story as gospel truth if V&M lose.

sno man: Salé  & Pelletier might be who you were thinking of, and they got a post games gold medal and the judging shenanigans got the way the skating is judged changed.


Nope, I was talking about Bourne & Kraatz.  (Sale & Pelletier weren't ice dancers, for one thing.)  Pretty much every single time they lost a competition from about 1997 onward, the Canadian media was convinced it was because the judging was rigged.  I was a big B&K fan myself, and I do think they got screwed a handful of times and probably should've won at least one Olympic medal, but the total lack of objectivity was pretty embarrassing to watch on the occasions when they were outskated.

I love Virtue & Moir's skating, and I was totally on board with their win in Vancouver, but they've also been less consistent than Davis & White over the last few years.  If both teams skate as well as they can, I think it could go either way and I might even find myself leaning toward V&M.  But I don't believe there's a fix for gold in this event (just bronze, which at least three or four other teams will deserve more than the Russians).  They're two great teams, their rivalry has elevated the sport, and whichever team wins, they don't deserve to have their victory diminished by bullshiat gossip.
 
2014-02-08 11:48:55 PM

JasonOfOrillia: sno man: Ishkur: Meryl Davis looks like a real doll.

My wife and I have had this discussion a few times, As a fan of LOTR, I go with Elven...  Her take is more alien that almost gets how to look human...

So she is in the uncanny valley?


why, yes... exactly.

the tiny little Russian girl that skated the women's today bends in ways that put her there too... wow.
 
2014-02-08 11:59:37 PM

hooligan sidekick: dywed88: L'Equipe is French, not Canadian.

Yeah, but the Canadian media is going to accept this story as gospel truth if V&M lose.

sno man: Salé  & Pelletier might be who you were thinking of, and they got a post games gold medal and the judging shenanigans got the way the skating is judged changed.

Nope, I was talking about Bourne & Kraatz.  (Sale & Pelletier weren't ice dancers, for one thing.)  Pretty much every single time they lost a competition from about 1997 onward, the Canadian media was convinced it was because the judging was rigged.  I was a big B&K fan myself, and I do think they got screwed a handful of times and probably should've won at least one Olympic medal, but the total lack of objectivity was pretty embarrassing to watch on the occasions when they were outskated.

I love Virtue & Moir's skating, and I was totally on board with their win in Vancouver, but they've also been less consistent than Davis & White over the last few years.  If both teams skate as well as they can, I think it could go either way and I might even find myself leaning toward V&M.  But I don't believe there's a fix for gold in this event (just bronze, which at least three or four other teams will deserve more than the Russians).  They're two great teams, their rivalry has elevated the sport, and whichever team wins, they don't deserve to have their victory diminished by bullshiat gossip.


Up until the S&P mess the judging WAS F'd...  the revised system was supposed to fix that, but as long as there is an artistic/interpretation mark, there will still be room for shenanigans ... in the team event today V&M seemed flat, but D&W wasn't great either and wasn't punished for it.
Before the last three skates tomorrow...Team results:  Russia-Gold, Canada-Silver, USA-Bronze.
 
2014-02-09 12:24:04 AM

hooligan sidekick: I love Virtue & Moir's skating, and I was totally on board with their win in Vancouver, but they've also been less consistent than Davis & White over the last few years. If both teams skate as well as they can, I think it could go either way and I might even find myself leaning toward V&M. But I don't believe there's a fix for gold in this event (just bronze, which at least three or four other teams will deserve more than the Russians). They're two great teams, their rivalry has elevated the sport, and whichever team wins, they don't deserve to have their victory diminished by bullshiat gossip.


I agree. Despite everything I said above, if there is a fix going on at the Olympics, its definitely not happening in ice dancing Gold (maybe Bronze). However the 1-2 standings play out, it's not necessary to give the edge to V/M or D/W in any category since they are so close, and I am satisfied with any result. Unless one of them falls out of the top 3 with no major mistakes, then that looks fishy.
 
2014-02-09 12:30:16 AM

sno man: Up until the S&P mess the judging WAS F'd... the revised system was supposed to fix that,


You remember that scene in Poltergeist where Craig T. Nelson has the other guy by the throat in the unfinished backyard pool and he's like "You stupid sonofabiatch, you moved the headstones but you didn't move the bodies. You only moved the head stones. WHY!?"

That's kind of what skating did: Revise the judging system but not the judges. The same corrupt officials are still there. Skating had a chance to fix itself but to do that it needed to be a clean sweep: Dismantle the whole skating body, fire everyone, and start all over with brand new people not connected with the old corrupt regime. But these things are run by stuffy, old European aristocrats who've been in power for centuries, so its hard to get rid of them.
 
2014-02-09 12:46:51 AM
This is AN OUTRAGE! A crime against humanity
 
2014-02-09 07:12:08 AM

2wolves: Any activity that involves style points is not a sport.


Generally agreed, boxing points seem to favour the more stylish boxer when everything else is equal so that's where I'd differ from your absolute rule.

Which makes the fail, because my preference for boxing as a real sport (and it doesn't always come down to points, too) ahead of figure skating is purely subjective.
 
2014-02-09 09:30:34 AM
Wow canada is really being a little biatch.
 
2014-02-09 09:38:34 AM

abhorrent1: Wow canada is really being a little biatch.


Yeah, it's almost like this has never happened at the Olympics before, specifically to Canada.
 
2014-02-09 11:12:32 AM

Ishkur: sno man: Up until the S&P mess the judging WAS F'd... the revised system was supposed to fix that,

You remember that scene in Poltergeist where Craig T. Nelson has the other guy by the throat in the unfinished backyard pool and he's like "You stupid sonofabiatch, you moved the headstones but you didn't move the bodies. You only moved the head stones. WHY!?"


Thanks for this; I think it just became my all-time favorite analysis of the new judging system.

GavinTheAlmighty: abhorrent1: Wow canada is really being a little biatch.

Yeah, it's almost like this has never happened at the Olympics before, specifically to Canada.


Yeah, there's evidence that pairs event in 2002 was fixed. But it's also hilarious how much Canadian fans freak out when you point out that the original results were perfectly reasonable anyway, based on the quality of the skating that night.
 
2014-02-09 11:42:12 AM

2wolves: Any activity that involves style points is not a sport.


What about... ski boarding, slopestye, moguls?
 
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