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(The New York Times)   Women don't want to have sex with husbands who do their share of the housework. Of course, they don't want to have sex with insensitive husbands who don't do any housework. TL;DR: Married women don't want to have sex with their husbands   (nytimes.com) divider line 267
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8132 clicks; posted to Main » on 08 Feb 2014 at 1:11 PM (32 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-02-08 03:47:05 PM

VespaGuy: After a single year of not just a sexless marriage, but one with zero intimacy at all from her side, I sat her down and explained that I refused to live this way for the rest of my life and I asked her what - if anything - I could do to fix things (things that were apparently always broken)
She mostly shrugged and then used my offer as a way to get me to do laundry and cleaning.
I called her bluff and took over chores. You know what happened? Nothing. Her libido stayed exactly where it was.
So I asked her for a divorce and got the Hell out of there just shy of our two year anniversary.

Don't marry a prude.
Don't ever convince yourself that things will get better.


I hear ya. Broken is broken. And unless they want to fix it, it will never get fixed. Mental, physical or both.
ALAS, we both assumed that things would change after the marriage, rather than stay exactly the same.
 
2014-02-08 03:47:16 PM

TanHamster: FTA: "masculine chores, like ... fixing the car"


Slightly off topic...  I'm an engineer at a large company (about 3000 employees at this site) and I would expect engineers to have the competence to tackle auto repairs.  Nope.  I'm the only man I know who even does his own oil changes.  I've never had my car to a garage for anything other than an inspection, and I'm by no means a master mechanic.  Fixing cars is not particularly difficult if you have the right tools.  My observation is that lots of men are pretty helpless when it comes to fixing the car.

LOL at the people who pay a dealer $75+ for a synthetic oil change.  AutoZone synthetic is $20/jug, and Amazon has Fram filters for $3 when you subscribe-and-save.  Do your own oil changes, and take that $50 you're saving and treat your spouse to a nice dinner.


Also slightly off topic. I am an engineer too. For a car manufacturer. Do you know how many engineers we employ who are great at what they do in a limited scope but don't know shiat about cars? It's terrifying. This part doesn't meet spec. They get that but they don't understand how that makes the car not run. Yeesh
 
2014-02-08 03:48:52 PM

Prank Monkey: TanHamster: FTA: "masculine chores, like ... fixing the car"


Slightly off topic...  I'm an engineer at a large company (about 3000 employees at this site) and I would expect engineers to have the competence to tackle auto repairs.  Nope.  I'm the only man I know who even does his own oil changes.  I've never had my car to a garage for anything other than an inspection, and I'm by no means a master mechanic.  Fixing cars is not particularly difficult if you have the right tools.  My observation is that lots of men are pretty helpless when it comes to fixing the car.

LOL at the people who pay a dealer $75+ for a synthetic oil change.  AutoZone synthetic is $20/jug, and Amazon has Fram filters for $3 when you subscribe-and-save.  Do your own oil changes, and take that $50 you're saving and treat your spouse to a nice dinner.

Also slightly off topic. I am an engineer too. For a car manufacturer. Do you know how many engineers we employ who are great at what they do in a limited scope but don't know shiat about cars? It's terrifying. This part doesn't meet spec. They get that but they don't understand how that makes the car not run. Yeesh


They must have had some VERY lenient professors in school.
 
2014-02-08 03:51:41 PM

Fafai: Also try to show a little disdain for doing it too. But don't overdo that.


Like while you're folding just hold up an article of her clothing and look at it quizzically and mutter to yourself, "the fark is this shiat?" before balling it up and shoving it under something else.

/My wife is great for this but I hope more women appreciate that although they are free to wear mens style clothes (like pants or suits etc), most men don't really get to wear skirts and dresses so folding this stuff is more foreign and confusing to a man than say a woman folding a man's clothes. But for the good of your sexlife, even if you've agreed that laundry will be his responsibilty, he's probably better off never learning how to fold women's clothes at all
 
2014-02-08 04:00:58 PM

doyner: Thingster: I. . .I. . . I don't understand. . .

Because it's even rarer than a female orgasm.


I've also never been with a "non-responsive" woman, so everytime I hear about the orgasm being rare it confuses me as well.

I guess I'm just easily confused by people that don't enjoy good sex.
 
2014-02-08 04:06:05 PM

namatad: TL;DR: Married women don't want to have sex with their husbands

TADA
If your wife wont fark you, tell her you are getting sex elsewhere.
If she has a problem with this, divorce her.
TADA


./seriously, why is anyone in a sexless, unhappy marriage these days? the kids? WAY TO fark up your children. "Marriage should be unhappy, just like us!!"


So, if your sex life isn't ideal, you should abandon your vows, go through a bitter divorce and custody battle, pay tens of thousands of dollars to lawyers and fark up your finances, because if you don't you'll fark up your children.

Hmm.
 
2014-02-08 04:14:24 PM

quo vadimus: QU!RK1019: quo vadimus: If you really believed that, you would have sex less often, however seldom she would prefer.

Instead you beg for it and she appeases you. You might be fine with that arrangement, and she might be too, but don't pretend that your mediocre version of fulfillment is the ideal for all humanity or this brave moral stance you're taking. It's not a very big priority for you. We don't all have the same priorities, and we don't all have the same reasons for them. Learn this and a whole new world will open up to you.

No, it's not an all or nothing predicament.  I like Thai food, she doesn't care for it.  Is that important enough to divorce her over?  Conversely, should we never go to a Thai restaurant ever again?  Or... sheesh, maybe we could try to compromise.

What a farking concept.

Besides, you're farking weird with the "you beg for it and she appeases you"assumption.

Previously you wrote "frequency of sex pales in comparison to everything else." You had also stated that the frequency with which you do have sex is more often than your wife would prefer. Out of all the things that "everything" encompasses, your wife's happiness, I would think, would be one.

Perhaps you were exaggerating, or perhaps you mistyped. I think you were misrepresenting the importance of sex to you in a purposeful manner. But now it looks like you're backing out of your own words by way of pulling my statements out of context and pretending that I am the one whose language excluded compromise.

A more polite way of backing out without suffering much shame at all would have been to simply say "okay, we both know I didn't mean everything when I said that thing before." Poetic license and all that.
 Anyway, enjoy all that panang you'll be compromising on!


You sound like a pedantic shiathead.
 
2014-02-08 04:14:30 PM

namatad: Dont kids require sex??


No.  They most certainly do NOT require sex.  As a matter of fact, people go to jail just for trying.
 
2014-02-08 04:16:36 PM
Women aren't turned on by whipped effeminate men? Get me my fainting couch.
 
2014-02-08 04:18:36 PM

ramblinwreck: There's nothing more a woman can't stand is watching a man relax.


CSB: I'm reading this, she's on the couch (recumbent) watching the Olympics, pops her head up and says "I'm being lazy and and STILL on the computer and wasting my life and blah."
 
2014-02-08 04:21:19 PM

Occam's Nailfile: namatad: TL;DR: Married women don't want to have sex with their husbands

TADA
If your wife wont fark you, tell her you are getting sex elsewhere.
If she has a problem with this, divorce her.
TADA


./seriously, why is anyone in a sexless, unhappy marriage these days? the kids? WAY TO fark up your children. "Marriage should be unhappy, just like us!!"

So, if your sex life isn't ideal, you should abandon your vows, go through a bitter divorce and custody battle, pay tens of thousands of dollars to lawyers and fark up your finances, because if you don't you'll fark up your children.

Hmm.


I said sexless and UNHAPPY marriage.
I would argue that most kids would MUCH rather have their parents divorced and happy, rather than live in that miserable house. 

I noticed that you said BITTER divorce and custody battle.  WHY?
Why would the divorce be bitter? Why would two unhappy people fight to stay together?
And if one or both of them drag the kids into it? FARK THEM both. They really shouldnt have been together.

I dont know a single person who has ever said, "I am SO glad that parents stayed together, unhappy fighting all the time, making all of us miserable."
I do know MANY people who have said, "GOD I wish they had jsut gotten divorced instead of farking us kids over."


I never said that they should end their marriage lightly, but I also know that few people can fix their marriages or do fix their marriage.

VOW?
Well, not all of us are religious.
When I said my "vows" it was to a judge. And it wasnt a promise to be unhappy all the rest of my life because my wife refused to work on our marriage and expected me to just do what she said.
 
2014-02-08 04:26:25 PM
I just had a baby. I dont think Im ever getting laid again
 
2014-02-08 04:31:47 PM

das224: ramblinwreck: There's nothing more a woman can't stand is watching a man relax.

CSB: I'm reading this, she's on the couch (recumbent) watching the Olympics, pops her head up and says "I'm being lazy and and STILL on the computer and wasting my life and blah."


WTF
Because watching the olympics isnt lazy and a waste of life?!!

I have a friend who used to tell me that I should do something rather than sit around playing WoW, this while she was sitting around watching L&O marathons.

I would argue that at least I interact with humans while playing a game, while she was just a lump.
 
2014-02-08 04:33:32 PM
This thread is making me feel a lot better about being married. It isn't for everyone and I have to get used to the idea of marriage and monogamy in general becoming less popular and that could be a good thing overall without necessarily reflecting on my own relationship but for certain personality types monogamy is the best path to having crazy, kinky, boundary-pushing sex. My marriage is very much a sexual arrangement as much as anything and if sex is important to people they should be upfront and honest with their partners about it and stand up for themselves by refusing to settle for less. There is absolutely nothing wrong with placing a high priority on increasingly good sex and holding your partner accountable for their end of it.
 
2014-02-08 04:33:45 PM

tylerdurden217: No sex is a legitimate reason for divorce.


There are people who think this.
They also think they can't live without sex.

They are wrong.
 
2014-02-08 04:35:21 PM
I've been married twice. First wife, monogamous dating 4 years, married for 5 = 9 years. Current wife monogamous dating 3 years, married for 6 = 9 years.

I'm gonna be 44 years old next month. I'm a decent looking guy, packing somewhere around the national average, depending on the stimuli.

Oh yeah, I've got one child with the ex wife, 2 pre-schoolers with my wife.

I TOTALLY understand the reasons for the dropoff in sex after you get married. Believe me. These precious snowflake bastards will suck the life outta you faster than you can say Jack Robinson.

But this is friggin nonsense. EVERY MAN I know, biatching about not getting pussy, treats his wife like a possession. Flat out. These are the same motherfarkers who went through the whole "is she pretty enough to impress my friends" ordeal when they were making the marriage decision.

18 years and I've never, not one time, asked for a blow job. Yet they are plentiful. It's kind of amazing what happens when you treat your partner like an equal, you treat your duties to your family and the work required to keep a house in shape equally, you have some semblance of dick control and know what things will bring your woman off - and do them with a passion-, and making it so that f*cking you isn't more trouble than it's worth.

Nobody is going to f*ck you because you deserve it. NO. BAH. DEE. No one. Not a single person on the face of this planet. Nobody in the whole goddamned universe. If you are not fun in the sack, you ain't getting any. It truly is this simple.

"Oh yeah yeah yeah. Not mine. She's just a farking coont. Nobody could please this biatch."

She got that expectation from someone.
 
2014-02-08 04:37:17 PM

namatad: Occam's Nailfile: namatad: TL;DR: Married women don't want to have sex with their husbands

TADA
If your wife wont fark you, tell her you are getting sex elsewhere.
If she has a problem with this, divorce her.
TADA


./seriously, why is anyone in a sexless, unhappy marriage these days? the kids? WAY TO fark up your children. "Marriage should be unhappy, just like us!!"

So, if your sex life isn't ideal, you should abandon your vows, go through a bitter divorce and custody battle, pay tens of thousands of dollars to lawyers and fark up your finances, because if you don't you'll fark up your children.

Hmm.

I said sexless and UNHAPPY marriage.
I would argue that most kids would MUCH rather have their parents divorced and happy, rather than live in that miserable house. 

I noticed that you said BITTER divorce and custody battle.  WHY?
Why would the divorce be bitter? Why would two unhappy people fight to stay together?
And if one or both of them drag the kids into it? FARK THEM both. They really shouldnt have been together.

I dont know a single person who has ever said, "I am SO glad that parents stayed together, unhappy fighting all the time, making all of us miserable."
I do know MANY people who have said, "GOD I wish they had jsut gotten divorced instead of farking us kids over."


I never said that they should end their marriage lightly, but I also know that few people can fix their marriages or do fix their marriage.

VOW?
Well, not all of us are religious.
When I said my "vows" it was to a judge. And it wasnt a promise to be unhappy all the rest of my life because my wife refused to work on our marriage and expected me to just do what she said.


You started the thread by saying that if you aren't getting the sex you want, you'll flat out tell your wife you're going to fark another woman, or women.  How happy do you think that's going to make your marriage?

Any why would your divorce be bitter, after such a declaration?  Oh, I dunno, maybe because DIVORCES ARE BITTER, especially when one of you is farking someone else.  What fantasy world do you live in, where you can cheat on a spouse, and have a tidy little split up that everyone gets away from gliding on glittery rainbow sleigh?

Marital betrayal crushes people.  It's one of the leading causes of murder.  Not getting laid enough?  Maybe your spouse is depressed.  Maybe she's just going through a low libido cycle.  Maybe you're getting fat, you don't shower enough, and you're just not attractive to her anymore.  Or maybe SHE doesn't feel attractive. Any NUMBER of reasons can send a marital sex life into the shiatter for a little while - or even for a long while.

The whole idea behind "till death do us part" is that it is a GIVEN that over the course of 60 years together, there will be a few years in there where it's not all sunshine and puppy dogs.

I am not saying that there aren't reasons for divorce.  But if you go into a marriage thinking, "well, if she doesn't give me enough pussy, I'm just gonna go get some elsewhere and to hell with my commitments to her", well sir, you don't deserve a life companion.  And the "split up, it's better for the kids" myth is a farking JOKE.  That's the excuse people use when they are too selfish to work on a marriage, and they don't want to burden themselves with the guilt of destroying their family by bailing out.  The evidence for that is right there in your first statement, "if I don't get what I want all bets are off."
 
2014-02-08 04:38:01 PM

HotIgneous Intruder: tylerdurden217: No sex is a legitimate reason for divorce.

There are people who think this.
They also think they can't live without sex.

They are wrong.


They're wrong if they think they can't survive without sex, but not about the first part. No sex is indeed a valid reason to end it. Sayign otherwise is like saying you think people should tolerate physical abuse so long as it doesn't actually kill them.
 
2014-02-08 04:41:21 PM

Fafai: Fafai: Also try to show a little disdain for doing it too. But don't overdo that.

Like while you're folding just hold up an article of her clothing and look at it quizzically and mutter to yourself, "the fark is this shiat?" before balling it up and shoving it under something else.

/My wife is great for this but I hope more women appreciate that although they are free to wear mens style clothes (like pants or suits etc), most men don't really get to wear skirts and dresses so folding this stuff is more foreign and confusing to a man than say a woman folding a man's clothes. But for the good of your sexlife, even if you've agreed that laundry will be his responsibilty, he's probably better off never learning how to fold women's clothes at all


At my house, everyone just jams the clothing in drawers. Life's too short.
 
2014-02-08 04:45:35 PM

Occam's Nailfile: And the "split up, it's better for the kids" myth is a farking JOKE. That's the excuse people use when they are too selfish to work on a marriage, and they don't want to burden themselves with the guilt of destroying their family by bailing out.


Sometimes, maybe, but surely you've got to agree that kids should not remain in dysfunctional or abusive families if it can be helped? No teo cases are the same. I was able to work on/fix my marriage when we hit the sexless part after the birth of our child (now things are better than when we were dating) but if I had put in all that work and she didn't reciprocate? I would have left. And fark you for telling me that would be selfish. Selfish is trying to keep someone in your pocket through manipulation and guilt.
 
2014-02-08 04:46:59 PM

Mr.Poops: i just woke up to a blow job this morning, really getting a kick out of these replies

/Which led to farking
//which led to cuddling
///which led to another farking
////which led to breakfast in bed then off to work
//haters gonna hate


What company does she work at?
 
2014-02-08 04:48:44 PM

Fafai: This thread is making me feel a lot better about being married. It isn't for everyone and I have to get used to the idea of marriage and monogamy in general becoming less popular and that could be a good thing overall without necessarily reflecting on my own relationship but for certain personality types monogamy is the best path to having crazy, kinky, boundary-pushing sex. My marriage is very much a sexual arrangement as much as anything and if sex is important to people they should be upfront and honest with their partners about it and stand up for themselves by refusing to settle for less. There is absolutely nothing wrong with placing a high priority on increasingly good sex and holding your partner accountable for their end of it.


THIS

In the end marriage is a relationship bound by many dimensions, which are different for everyone, which include compromise and communication. Some of those things are important to you and your spouse, others are not.

Religion
Children
Sex and Intimacy
Money
Politics
Common Interests
Separate Hobbies
etc etc etc

But in the end, if your needs are not being met, in enough of the dimensions, you will meet them one way or the other.
 
2014-02-08 04:49:48 PM

Fafai: They're wrong if they think they can't survive without sex, but not about the first part. No sex is indeed a valid reason to end it. Sayign otherwise is like saying you think people should tolerate physical abuse so long as it doesn't actually kill them.


LOL.  How old are you people?  Lack of sex =/= physical abuse.  It's not even in the same zip code.  Grow the hell up.
 
2014-02-08 04:52:14 PM

Occam's Nailfile: Marital Relationship betrayal crushes people.  It's one of the leading causes of murder.  Not getting laid enough?  Maybe your spouse is depressed.  Maybe she's just going through a low libido cycle.  Maybe you're getting fat, you don't shower enough, and you're just not attractive to her anymore.  Or maybe SHE doesn't feel attractive. Any NUMBER of reasons can send a marital sex life into the shiatter for a little while - or even for a long while.


I never said that the first thing that you should do is cheat. But once you have tried everything else to fix your marriage, you pretty much have three choices:
1) live with a broken marriage
2) get out
3) cheat (with or without permission)

But cheating with permission, well it isnt betrayal or cheating then is it.
Did Bill cheat on Hillary? Maybe. Maybe not. Maybe he had permission for his affairs. We dont know.
But their marriage sure seems to have worked. Even with the affairs.
 
2014-02-08 04:53:20 PM

Occam's Nailfile: Fafai: They're wrong if they think they can't survive without sex, but not about the first part. No sex is indeed a valid reason to end it. Sayign otherwise is like saying you think people should tolerate physical abuse so long as it doesn't actually kill them.

LOL.  How old are you people?  Lack of sex =/= physical abuse.  It's not even in the same zip code.  Grow the hell up.


LOL
Agreed.
But you do agree that there are many different and valid reasons for ending a marriage, and that lack of sex is one of them. Right?
 
2014-02-08 04:54:59 PM

No Such Agency: Egalitarian: there are so many guys out there who can't stand it when their woman tries to initiate sex ... it has to be completely on the man's schedule and terms. Woman acts horny at anything but the appointed time? OH NOEZ SCARY!!! GET AWAY!

Who the fark are these assholes?  Elderly Arabs?  I love it when my wife initiates sex.  I also love it when it's my idea and she goes for it.  Does that make her a prostitute?  We're married, for farks's sake.


They're guys who get pissed off when they think anyone is trying to make them do something that wasn't their idea. They're like "Nobody controls me! I make the decisions around here!"
 
2014-02-08 04:55:59 PM

Occam's Nailfile: Fafai: They're wrong if they think they can't survive without sex, but not about the first part. No sex is indeed a valid reason to end it. Sayign otherwise is like saying you think people should tolerate physical abuse so long as it doesn't actually kill them.

LOL.  How old are you people?  Lack of sex =/= physical abuse.  It's not even in the same zip code.  Grow the hell up.


Withholding sex or intimacy is categorized as emotional abuse. And I find it funny you seem to be equating maturity with sex in that way. I equate it the other way. I expect to be having even more mind blowing sex when I'm older.
 
2014-02-08 04:56:34 PM

Fafai: Occam's Nailfile: And the "split up, it's better for the kids" myth is a farking JOKE. That's the excuse people use when they are too selfish to work on a marriage, and they don't want to burden themselves with the guilt of destroying their family by bailing out.

Sometimes, maybe, but surely you've got to agree that kids should not remain in dysfunctional or abusive families if it can be helped? No teo cases are the same. I was able to work on/fix my marriage when we hit the sexless part after the birth of our child (now things are better than when we were dating) but if I had put in all that work and she didn't reciprocate? I would have left. And fark you for telling me that would be selfish. Selfish is trying to keep someone in your pocket through manipulation and guilt.


My buddy and his girlfriend got together when they were 13, had a kid at about 21 and are still together at 30 and are freaking miserable and have been long before a kid ever came in to the picture. Shes addicted to pills and they are both alcoholics. She farked his best friend (who is perhaps one of the ugliest males to walk the earth) and they constantly fight in front of the kid. The only reason they are still together is because of the child as quoted by both of them numerous times.

But obviously according to the poster above, they should just "work it out". If there was ever a example of 2 people who need to get the fark out of each others lives, it is these 2. It's almost as if there are all types of situations with different resolutions......
 
2014-02-08 04:57:41 PM
So
We havent breached this topic yet. Morality of divorce.
The moral majority would have us believe that marriage is sacred and divorce is evil.
Shouldn't they be working to make divorce illegal?
Shouldn't they be expelling divorced men and women from their offices and ranks?

Or should they be admitting that marriage isnt all that sacred and is basically a contract and that divorce happens for many reasons, including bad sex.
 
2014-02-08 04:57:55 PM

Fafai: Occam's Nailfile: And the "split up, it's better for the kids" myth is a farking JOKE. That's the excuse people use when they are too selfish to work on a marriage, and they don't want to burden themselves with the guilt of destroying their family by bailing out.

Sometimes, maybe, but surely you've got to agree that kids should not remain in dysfunctional or abusive families if it can be helped? No teo cases are the same. I was able to work on/fix my marriage when we hit the sexless part after the birth of our child (now things are better than when we were dating) but if I had put in all that work and she didn't reciprocate? I would have left. And fark you for telling me that would be selfish. Selfish is trying to keep someone in your pocket through manipulation and guilt.


I totally agree that an abusive relationship is worse on children than a divorce, we're on the same page there.

If you have kids though man, and you bail out because you're not getting laid enough, you have decided that your need to have someone else give you an orgasm is more important than the benefit you can give your kids by giving them a stable home.

You've nailed it though - you worked on it, and you kept working on it, and things got better.  What if it took an extra month, or an extra year?  Would that have been too much, to preserve your family?
 
2014-02-08 04:58:21 PM

FunkOut: No Such Agency: Egalitarian: there are so many guys out there who can't stand it when their woman tries to initiate sex ... it has to be completely on the man's schedule and terms. Woman acts horny at anything but the appointed time? OH NOEZ SCARY!!! GET AWAY!

Who the fark are these assholes?  Elderly Arabs?  I love it when my wife initiates sex.  I also love it when it's my idea and she goes for it.  Does that make her a prostitute?  We're married, for farks's sake.

They're guys who get pissed off when they think anyone is trying to make them do something that wasn't their idea. They're like "Nobody controls me! I make the decisions around here!"


Agreed. It's to the benefit of the marriage if each partner can come to enjoy being controlled to a certain degree. Me, I love it.
 
2014-02-08 04:59:01 PM

Fafai: Occam's Nailfile: Fafai: They're wrong if they think they can't survive without sex, but not about the first part. No sex is indeed a valid reason to end it. Sayign otherwise is like saying you think people should tolerate physical abuse so long as it doesn't actually kill them.

LOL.  How old are you people?  Lack of sex =/= physical abuse.  It's not even in the same zip code.  Grow the hell up.

Withholding sex or intimacy is categorized as emotional abuse. And I find it funny you seem to be equating maturity with sex in that way. I equate it the other way. I expect to be having even more mind blowing sex when I'm older.


Funny how some people are like "Sexual desire is something immature stupid people feel. When you get older and wise, you realise how silly and meaningless sex is and you can rise above such a base fleshly desire."
 
2014-02-08 04:59:12 PM

Fafai: Occam's Nailfile: And the "split up, it's better for the kids" myth is a farking JOKE. That's the excuse people use when they are too selfish to work on a marriage, and they don't want to burden themselves with the guilt of destroying their family by bailing out.

Sometimes, maybe, but surely you've got to agree that kids should not remain in dysfunctional or abusive families if it can be helped? No teo cases are the same. I was able to work on/fix my marriage when we hit the sexless part after the birth of our child (now things are better than when we were dating) but if I had put in all that work and she didn't reciprocate? I would have left. And fark you for telling me that would be selfish. Selfish is trying to keep someone in your pocket through manipulation and guilt.


You are arguing with someone who obviously has emotion tied to their take on it. We all do to lesser or greater extent. My semi-estranged father put a bullet in his head when I was 19 years old. To me, it was the most selfish, cowardly and flat out f*cking MEAN thing anybody could do, and leave behind, ....ever. And I would never do that. Not to my family, to my kids. I know how hard that is to leave behind.

That doesn't mean he didn't have his reasons. Ones that made sense to him. And maybe it really was for the best. I'm just never going to believe it because it will never not affect me. If somebody asks for my take on this, that's what you're going to get.
 
2014-02-08 05:00:07 PM

Occam's Nailfile: Fafai: Occam's Nailfile: And the "split up, it's better for the kids" myth is a farking JOKE. That's the excuse people use when they are too selfish to work on a marriage, and they don't want to burden themselves with the guilt of destroying their family by bailing out.

Sometimes, maybe, but surely you've got to agree that kids should not remain in dysfunctional or abusive families if it can be helped? No teo cases are the same. I was able to work on/fix my marriage when we hit the sexless part after the birth of our child (now things are better than when we were dating) but if I had put in all that work and she didn't reciprocate? I would have left. And fark you for telling me that would be selfish. Selfish is trying to keep someone in your pocket through manipulation and guilt.

I totally agree that an abusive relationship is worse on children than a divorce, we're on the same page there.

If you have kids though man, and you bail out because you're not getting laid enough, you have decided that your need to have someone else give you an orgasm is more important than the benefit you can give your kids by giving them a stable home.

You've nailed it though - you worked on it, and you kept working on it, and things got better.  What if it took an extra month, or an extra year?  Would that have been too much, to preserve your family?


Ah, much better explanation. Were on the same page.
 
2014-02-08 05:00:24 PM

namatad: Occam's Nailfile: Fafai: They're wrong if they think they can't survive without sex, but not about the first part. No sex is indeed a valid reason to end it. Sayign otherwise is like saying you think people should tolerate physical abuse so long as it doesn't actually kill them.

LOL.  How old are you people?  Lack of sex =/= physical abuse.  It's not even in the same zip code.  Grow the hell up.

LOL
Agreed.
But you do agree that there are many different and valid reasons for ending a marriage, and that lack of sex is one of them. Right?


I do not agree that lack of sex is one of them.  Lack of sex + treating you with contempt and disdain all the time, sure.  Lack of sex is a fixable, temporary thing, and it happens in EVERY SINGLE MARRIAGE at some point.  And if it's not fixable - maybe your spouse has a physical or psychological problem - well, that's what the whole, "in sickness and in health" part meant.
 
2014-02-08 05:00:25 PM

Fafai: Occam's Nailfile: Fafai: They're wrong if they think they can't survive without sex, but not about the first part. No sex is indeed a valid reason to end it. Sayign otherwise is like saying you think people should tolerate physical abuse so long as it doesn't actually kill them.

LOL.  How old are you people?  Lack of sex =/= physical abuse.  It's not even in the same zip code.  Grow the hell up.

Withholding sex or intimacy is categorized as emotional abuse. And I find it funny you seem to be equating maturity with sex in that way. I equate it the other way. I expect to be having even more mind blowing sex when I'm older.


THIS - Thank You
And before the panty twisters get their bunch in gear, no one is talking about a sick wife, or disabled or tired or busy or or or .
We are talking about run of the mill, withholding sex and intimacy.
If you dont think that this exists, talk to one of your married friends and ask them if their wife has ever done this. Ask your wife if she has ever done this.

sigh
this has been fun, but I need to think about going out and foraging
 
2014-02-08 05:03:16 PM
I should clarify, my point was not to derail the thread. But to say that important, emotional things such as divorce are going to come with biases that are too often impossible to overcome even with rational counter points.
 
2014-02-08 05:04:15 PM

HotIgneous Intruder: tylerdurden217: No sex is a legitimate reason for divorce.

There are people who think this.
They also think they can't live without sex.

They are wrong.


I said it was a legitimate reason, I didn't say that everyone in a sexless marriage should get divorced. People who don't want to have sex should marry other asexual people. There are people like this? Great. They should be together.

In other words, if your spouse loved to fark before you got married and maybe even shortly after and then all of a sudden stopped you shouldn't feel bad for filing for a divorce. I would absolutely try to work it out first. Then I'd file. I'd be embarrassed to admit that was the reason, but I think most people would understand.
 
2014-02-08 05:04:21 PM

Fafai: Withholding sex


Withholding sex =/= not having sex.  Sure, withholding sex is emotionally abusive, and probably comes along with lots of other emotionally abusive behavior.  But when a woman doesn't want to have sex, that doesn't mean she's withholding it.  Like I said, there are countless reasons why a woman might be in sexless phase in her life.  And nearly all women will be in that phase at some points.  Lots of men go through those phases, too.
 
2014-02-08 05:05:41 PM

Occam's Nailfile: If you have kids though man, and you bail out because you're not getting laid enough, you have decided that your need to have someone else give you an orgasm is more important than the benefit you can give your kids by giving them a stable home.


Well it isn't that simple. There'd be options discussed before splitting. At what point does it become the withholding partner's 'decision' to end things by not allowing the high desire partner to go outside the marriage?

Occam's Nailfile: What if it took an extra month, or an extra year? Would that have been too much, to preserve your family?


I told her I had a 'due date' set where if I didn't see the improvement I was looking for then I'd start lawyering up. I didn't tell her what this date was because, and I told her, I didn't want her basically just circling it on a calendar and artificially 'shaping up' until that day just to keep up appearances before falling back into the rut. ...I had months to spare, btw, when things started to really improve. But you have to stick to your guns at some point. And nothing was ever going to prevent me from loving my son and being in his life so 'to preserve the family' is a bit dramatic.
 
2014-02-08 05:06:20 PM

Occam's Nailfile: Fafai: Occam's Nailfile: And the "split up, it's better for the kids" myth is a farking JOKE. That's the excuse people use when they are too selfish to work on a marriage, and they don't want to burden themselves with the guilt of destroying their family by bailing out.

Sometimes, maybe, but surely you've got to agree that kids should not remain in dysfunctional or abusive families if it can be helped? No teo cases are the same. I was able to work on/fix my marriage when we hit the sexless part after the birth of our child (now things are better than when we were dating) but if I had put in all that work and she didn't reciprocate? I would have left. And fark you for telling me that would be selfish. Selfish is trying to keep someone in your pocket through manipulation and guilt.

I totally agree that an abusive relationship is worse on children than a divorce, we're on the same page there.

If you have kids though man, and you bail out because you're not getting laid enough, you have decided that your need to have someone else give you an orgasm is more important than the benefit you can give your kids by giving them a stable home.

You've nailed it though - you worked on it, and you kept working on it, and things got better.  What if it took an extra month, or an extra year?  Would that have been too much, to preserve your family?


While we all know about celebrity marriages which only last a month and I am sure that the same thing happens in real life, what are you talking about?
FEW people are together long enough to have kids and get divorce after 1 month of trying to fix the marriage.

Either the marriage was broken for a long time, and it just looks like they only spent a month, or they spend enough time to realize that it will never get fixed. That could take one day.

After dating the same woman for two years, I learned that she was still mourning the death of her mother, after ten years. I got out. If she was unable to move on and live a life after 10 years of mourning, there was nothing that I could do to fix that. Nothing. Until she fixed it, until she worked on it, until she was ready. 
You can not fix people. 

You can fix the dynamic between you and them, you can improve communication, and what not.
But if they are broken, you cant fix the relationship.

So how long should you stay in a marriage once you learn that your wife has been cheating on you since your wedding day? Why would you try to fix that? Just because you have kids or it might be hard?

bah
 
2014-02-08 05:08:48 PM

FunkOut: Funny how some people are like "Sexual desire is something immature stupid people feel. When you get older and wise, you realise how silly and meaningless sex is and you can rise above such a base fleshly desire."


Not what I'm saying.  I'm saying, as you get older (unless you're just an asshole), you'll realize that one of the certainties of marriage is that there will be periods - sometimes PAINFULLY long ones - where the bedroom cools off, and if you love your spouse, you'll weather it.
 
2014-02-08 05:11:28 PM

namatad: So how long should you stay in a marriage once you learn that your wife has been cheating on you since your wedding day?


About thirty seconds.  Just long enough to call her a whore, and fill a backpack.
 
2014-02-08 05:14:15 PM

Fafai: And nothing was ever going to prevent me from loving my son and being in his life


Except:

blog.larrybodine.com

Peace out, gonna go hump my wife ;)
 
2014-02-08 05:17:48 PM

Occam's Nailfile: FunkOut: Funny how some people are like "Sexual desire is something immature stupid people feel. When you get older and wise, you realise how silly and meaningless sex is and you can rise above such a base fleshly desire."

Not what I'm saying.  I'm saying, as you get older (unless you're just an asshole), you'll realize that one of the certainties of marriage is that there will be periods - sometimes PAINFULLY long ones - where the bedroom cools off, and if you love your spouse, you'll weather it.


Still sounds like "Sex isn't important. Get over the other person not being interested in you. Become their roommate."
 
2014-02-08 05:19:49 PM

Occam's Nailfile: Fafai: And nothing was ever going to prevent me from loving my son and being in his life

Except:

[blog.larrybodine.com image 226x400]

Peace out, gonna go hump my wife ;)


Well no because I didn't marry a self-serving biatch. We already agreed it would be joint custody if it came down to that.
 
2014-02-08 05:25:23 PM

Fafai: We already agreed it would be joint custody if it came down to that.


Didn't you also agree to all this stuff?

"to be my lawfully wedded(husband/wife), to have and to hold, from this day forward, for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, until death do us part."

I'm not saying I don't smell what you're cooking, I'm just saying, you wouldn't be the first husband going through a divorce to find out his wife has suddenly become Beelzebub.
 
2014-02-08 05:27:24 PM
You all sound like you need to get laid.
 
2014-02-08 05:35:47 PM

Occam's Nailfile: namatad: So how long should you stay in a marriage once you learn that your wife has been cheating on you since your wedding day?

About thirty seconds.  Just long enough to call her a whore, and fill a backpack.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zcI_ObML_g

i1.ytimg.com
 
2014-02-08 05:36:51 PM

Occam's Nailfile: Fafai: We already agreed it would be joint custody if it came down to that.

Didn't you also agree to all this stuff?

"to be my lawfully wedded(husband/wife), to have and to hold, from this day forward, for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, until death do us part."

I'm not saying I don't smell what you're cooking, I'm just saying, you wouldn't be the first husband going through a divorce to find out his wife has suddenly become Beelzebub.


She's tried pulling the marriage vow card and that doesn't work with me. I told her straight up love doesn't work that way. You don't promise to stay together once in front of everyone and then stop trying to please each other and then use the vows as a guilt trip to enable your lack of effort in fixing things.

People need to stand up for themselves and their interests. Knowing the marriage could dissolve at any moment keeps it on it's toes rather than resting on the lazy laurels of the 'wedding vows'. Knowing divorce is always an option keeps it interesting and keeps the desire high, because you feel like you're truly being 'chosen' each day. If it's a farking trap for life, where's the incentive to show them you want to keep them around?
 
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