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(Washington Post)   On a recorded phone call, U.S. Assistant Secretary of State and top European diplomat Victoria Nuland displays the careful nuance and poise that have been so helpful in restoring respect for America: "Fark the EU"   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 94
    More: Dumbass, Assistant Secretary of State, Victoria Nuland, U.S., Europeans, President Viktor Yanukovych, Ukraine, phone calls, trade sanctions  
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3021 clicks; posted to Main » on 07 Feb 2014 at 9:02 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-02-07 08:42:47 AM  
Yeah, well, interceptors gonna intercept, so watch what you say on the phone*.  The NSA and GCHQ aren't the only competent SIGINT collectors out there.  In fact, I wouldn't be in the least surprised to learn that this is payback for the Snowden revelations of the NSA intercepting Angela Merkel's phone calls, especially considering that Germany is "first among equals" in the EU, having the largest GDP of all the EU nations.  It's GDP is about 30% higher than the next largest, France, and all told it represents 20.6% of the total EU all by itself.

And the Bundesnachrichtensdienst (BND) is a very capable SIGINT organization.

Of course, it could also have been the Sovi... errrm, Russianswho wouldn't have a problem at all with embarrassing the United States.   They are also very capable of intercepting such communications.


*And text, and social media, and otherwise communicate electronically.
 
2014-02-07 09:09:14 AM  
For the first time in forever, I actually heard about this on the news, before I saw it on FARK!!!

That just never happens.

And, while we're here ...

Fark the EU!  Yay Go USA!
 
2014-02-07 09:10:41 AM  
"fark the EU" is a pretty good D.W.A. rap.
 
2014-02-07 09:10:51 AM  
Did she say anything that any productive European working person in any productive European nation isn't thinking already?
 
2014-02-07 09:11:13 AM  

dittybopper: Yeah, well, interceptors gonna intercept, so watch what you say on the phone*.  The NSA and GCHQ aren't the only competent SIGINT collectors out there.  In fact, I wouldn't be in the least surprised to learn that this is payback for the Snowden revelations of the NSA intercepting Angela Merkel's phone calls, especially considering that Germany is "first among equals" in the EU, having the largest GDP of all the EU nations.  It's GDP is about 30% higher than the next largest, France, and all told it represents 20.6% of the total EU all by itself.

And the Bundesnachrichtensdienst (BND) is a very capable SIGINT organization.

Of course, it could also have been the Sovi... errrm, Russianswho wouldn't have a problem at all with embarrassing the United States.   They are also very capable of intercepting such communications.


*And text, and social media, and otherwise communicate electronically.


People are saying it's the Russians because they launched it on twitter.

I don't really see how this revelation would aid Germany.
 
2014-02-07 09:12:09 AM  
dittybopper:

And the Bundesnachrichtensdienst (BND) is a very capable SIGINT organization.


gesundheit
 
2014-02-07 09:12:26 AM  
"Puppets of the Maidan,"

upload.wikimedia.org


/Up the Irons!
 
2014-02-07 09:14:51 AM  
And she's... wrong?
 
2014-02-07 09:15:02 AM  
It really is amateur hour at the Department of State.
 
2014-02-07 09:17:06 AM  
Maybe she just finds finds EU citizens very attractive, and wants to ensure they all get laid.
 
2014-02-07 09:17:10 AM  
The EU is slowly farking itself anyway.
Obvious intercepted statement is obvious.
 
2014-02-07 09:20:34 AM  
This probably isn't so damaging. What is damaging is that we are becoming more like the EU she wants to fark, as we become more passive, effete, and debt ridden.
 
2014-02-07 09:21:08 AM  

dittybopper: Yeah, well, interceptors gonna intercept, so watch what you say on the phone*.  The NSA and GCHQ aren't the only competent SIGINT collectors out there.  In fact, I wouldn't be in the least surprised to learn that this is payback for the Snowden revelations of the NSA intercepting Angela Merkel's phone calls, especially considering that Germany is "first among equals" in the EU, having the largest GDP of all the EU nations.  It's GDP is about 30% higher than the next largest, France, and all told it represents 20.6% of the total EU all by itself.

And the Bundesnachrichtensdienst (BND) is a very capable SIGINT organization.

Of course, it could also have been the Sovi... errrm, Russianswho wouldn't have a problem at all with embarrassing the United States.   They are also very capable of intercepting such communications.


*And text, and social media, and otherwise communicate electronically.


Thanks Uncle Ditty, as always your posts are quite educational.
 
2014-02-07 09:22:06 AM  

Arkanaut: And she's... wrong?


This. I give a shiat, why?
 
2014-02-07 09:22:50 AM  

Animatronik: This probably isn't so damaging. What is damaging is that we are becoming more like the EU she wants to fark, as we become more passive, effete, and debt ridden.


We're debt ridden in part because we're anything but passive.
 
2014-02-07 09:23:29 AM  

jso2897: Did she say anything that any productive European working person in any productive European nation isn't thinking already?


People who read the Daily Fail aren't productive.

---

Also "Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs Victoria Nuland" is not a top European diplomat, she's a top American diplomat.
 
2014-02-07 09:24:48 AM  

jso2897: Did she say anything that any productive European working person in any productive European nation isn't thinking already?


The Germans still like it - it gives them quite a lot of economic power at a bargain price. The French whine about it publicly but know it's in their best interests. There's a few smaller Eastern European countries that have also seen benefit from it as well.

...But yeah, for probably 75% of member states it sucks. Greece most obviously - they would probably be in a much better state now if they'd just quit the EU in 2008 or so, defaulted, then told their creditors to fark off.

The only reason nobody's left yet is the sheer amount of political pressure that gets brought to bear on countries who think about doing so.
 
2014-02-07 09:25:13 AM  
So now we're worried about foreign relations?
 
2014-02-07 09:25:28 AM  
"How could Obama not know his staff is this farked up?"


LOL


/don't bother
 
2014-02-07 09:26:20 AM  

spawn73: jso2897: Did she say anything that any productive European working person in any productive European nation isn't thinking already?

People who read the Daily Fail aren't productive.

---

Also "Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs Victoria Nuland" is not a top European diplomat, she's a top American diplomat.


Yes, I know that.
i18.photobucket.com
 
2014-02-07 09:27:58 AM  

RayD8: The EU is slowly farking itself anyway.


By improving its economy, and now paying of its debts. Oh, noticed someone in Ukraine demonstrating...

Obvious intercepted statement is obvious.

Does this statement refer to your first one, because, then you're making even less sense. They're complaining about the EU not applying enough preassure to resolve the situation.

---

I strongly suspect that you're not aware that the Ukraine is not an EU memberstate, and you have problems telling an economic union, and a continent apart. Furthermore, I don't think you grasp the difference between an economic and a political union.
 
2014-02-07 09:28:04 AM  

s2s2s2: "How could Obama not know his staff is this farked up?"


LOL


/don't bother


Oh. So now you want the Administration to go back to that "Bowing to foreign rulers" y'all were so pissed off about before?
 
2014-02-07 09:28:19 AM  
The US said FO to the EU and the EU was, like, FU US, and the US said to the EU EABOD/DIAF. I guess it's pretty serious. NTTAWWT.
 
2014-02-07 09:29:18 AM  

Facetious_Speciest: The US said FO to the EU and the EU was, like, FU US, and the US said to the EU EABOD/DIAF. I guess it's pretty serious. NTTAWWT.


Thanks, Obacronym.
 
2014-02-07 09:32:39 AM  

Gunther: jso2897: Did she say anything that any productive European working person in any productive European nation isn't thinking already?

The Germans still like it - it gives them quite a lot of economic power at a bargain price. The French whine about it publicly but know it's in their best interests. There's a few smaller Eastern European countries that have also seen benefit from it as well.

...But yeah, for probably 75% of member states it sucks. Greece most obviously - they would probably be in a much better state now if they'd just quit the EU in 2008 or so, defaulted, then told their creditors to fark off.

The only reason nobody's left yet is the sheer amount of political pressure that gets brought to bear on countries who think about doing so.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Member_state_of_the_European_Union

Benelux likes it, Scandinavia + Finland likes it, all of eastern Europe likes it.

Oh, and yes, it would have been in Greeces best interest to collapse completely. You're so wise.
 
2014-02-07 09:32:52 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: People are saying it's the Russians because they launched it on twitter.

I don't really see how this revelation would aid Germany.


A few points:

1.  If you were Germany, but you didn't want to publicly reveal that you have been intercepting the phone calls of diplomats (which of course they are doing), you'd have a non-German source release it.

2.  It helps Germany in that it drives a wedge between the EU and the US.  Like I said, Germany is the "big dog" in the EU.

3.  It could be merely personal:  Maybe it was Angela Merkel herself that approved it as a payback for the NSA intercepting her phone calls.

Of course, it's almost just as likely that the Russians did it, but why would the Russians do so?  It makes the EU look better in comparison, and that's not going to help them with their problem in the Ukraine.

Then again, screwing with Americans is the Russian national sport, so it may just be Putin tweaking the nose of Obama.
Also, it may have been an entirely different country that we aren't considering, and of course there is always the outside possibility that the intercept was done by a private individual.
 
2014-02-07 09:33:09 AM  
Finally, a single government employee I can respect.
 
2014-02-07 09:36:18 AM  

Gunther: jso2897: Did she say anything that any productive European working person in any productive European nation isn't thinking already?

The Germans still like it - it gives them quite a lot of economic power at a bargain price. The French whine about it publicly but know it's in their best interests. There's a few smaller Eastern European countries that have also seen benefit from it as well.

...But yeah, for probably 75% of member states it sucks. Greece most obviously - they would probably be in a much better state now if they'd just quit the EU in 2008 or so, defaulted, then told their creditors to fark off.

The only reason nobody's left yet is the sheer amount of political pressure that gets brought to bear on countries who think about doing so.


Take another look at the map of the USA.  For every New York trying to govern a modern 21st century state, there's a Mississippi, Kansas and North Carolina desperately trying to return to the good ol' Middle Ages.
 
2014-02-07 09:37:36 AM  

dittybopper: Of course, it's almost just as likely that the Russians did it, but why would the Russians do so?  It makes the EU look better in comparison, and that's not going to help them with their problem in the Ukraine.


Actually, I take this back, it would help them by making the EU look like they don't care about the Ukraine.

On the other hand, it makes the US look better to Ukrainian eyes, which is something the Russians would *NOT* want, so it's a wash.
 
2014-02-07 09:38:14 AM  

dittybopper: Of course, it could also have been the Sovi... errrm, Russians


soepic.pl
 
2014-02-07 09:38:23 AM  
31.media.tumblr.com
"Ahh Victoria. I look forward to reading your words when they come in."
/obscure?
 
2014-02-07 09:41:47 AM  

Persnickety: Take another look at the map of the USA.  For every New York trying to govern a modern 21st century state, there's a Mississippi, Kansas and North Carolina desperately trying to return to the good ol' Middle Ages.


Large swaths of New York aren't much different from Mississippi, Kansas, and North Carolina.

In fact, area-wise, the majority of the state is like that.  It's just that people tend to confuse NYC and its surrounding area with the state as a whole, because a majority of the people in the state live in that small area.
 
2014-02-07 09:47:12 AM  
2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2014-02-07 09:47:17 AM  

spawn73: Benelux likes it, Scandinavia + Finland likes it, all of eastern Europe likes it.


Sure, the governments say they like it. When the citizens of EU countries get polled, the picture ceases to be quite so rosy.

spawn73: Oh, and yes, it would have been in Greeces best interest to collapse completely. You're so wise.


Because when Brazil defaulted a couple decades ago they collapsed completely. It certainly didn't benefit them in the long run, and they sure aren't doing far, far better than anyone would have predicted at the time.
 
2014-02-07 09:47:47 AM  
OK, after careful consideration, it does sound like the Soviussians did it.

The call was almost certainly intercepted within the area of the former Soviet Union, as one end of the conversation is the US ambassador to the Ukraine.

Which begs the question:  Why the fark were they talking about that sort of thing on an unsecured line?  That's the sort of thing you talk about either in person, or via a method that you can reasonably guarantee won't be intercepted.  Because of the fidelity of the call, it sounds like it was ripped straight off the network, and not from some hidden bug.
 
2014-02-07 09:48:03 AM  

Plant Rights Activist: dittybopper:

And the Bundesnachrichtensdienst (BND) is a very capable SIGINT organization.


gesundheit


Relevant:

http://likealaugh.org/laugh/14096
 
2014-02-07 09:50:25 AM  

spawn73: RayD8: The EU is slowly farking itself anyway.

By improving its economy, and now paying of its debts. Oh, noticed someone in Ukraine demonstrating...

Obvious intercepted statement is obvious.

Does this statement refer to your first one, because, then you're making even less sense. They're complaining about the EU not applying enough preassure to resolve the situation.

---

I strongly suspect that you're not aware that the Ukraine is not an EU memberstate, and you have problems telling an economic union, and a continent apart. Furthermore, I don't think you grasp the difference between an economic and a political union.


Wow, read too much into a statement on Fark much? Yep, just ask Greece how terrific the union is working out. Mind you, without Germany they may have gone under. Spain, Italy etc etc. Economic power houses right?
I strongly suspect you're an idiot.
Furthermore, I think you're an idiot.
I was born in Kastrup by the way. Family moved to Australia.
How's your taxes and cost of living going in Danska?
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2014-02-07 09:55:17 AM  

dittybopper: Yeah, well, interceptors gonna intercept, so watch what you say on the phone*.  The NSA and GCHQ aren't the only competent SIGINT collectors out there.  In fact, I wouldn't be in the least surprised to learn that this is payback for the Snowden revelations of the NSA intercepting Angela Merkel's phone calls, especially considering that Germany is "first among equals" in the EU, having the largest GDP of all the EU nations.  It's GDP is about 30% higher than the next largest, France, and all told it represents 20.6% of the total EU all by itself.

And the Bundesnachrichtensdienst (BND) is a very capable SIGINT organization.

Of course, it could also have been the Sovi... errrm, Russianswho wouldn't have a problem at all with embarrassing the United States.   They are also very capable of intercepting such communications.


*And text, and social media, and otherwise communicate electronically.


Good advice, but there used to be a sort or unwritten rule or truce or whatever that you didn't make it public.
 
2014-02-07 09:55:35 AM  

Gunther: spawn73: Benelux likes it, Scandinavia + Finland likes it, all of eastern Europe likes it.

Sure, the governments say they like it. When the citizens of EU countries get polled, the picture ceases to be quite so rosy.


Uh, where you betting I had zero reading comprehension, or is that you?

spawn73: Oh, and yes, it would have been in Greeces best interest to collapse completely. You're so wise.

Because when Brazil defaulted a couple decades ago they collapsed completely. It certainly didn't benefit them in the long run, and they sure aren't doing far, far better than anyone would have predicted at the time.


Greece isn't Brazil. Greece would have gone from a developed nation to collapsed shiathole.
 
2014-02-07 09:56:45 AM  

dittybopper: Persnickety: Take another look at the map of the USA.  For every New York trying to govern a modern 21st century state, there's a Mississippi, Kansas and North Carolina desperately trying to return to the good ol' Middle Ages.

Large swaths of New York aren't much different from Mississippi, Kansas, and North Carolina.

In fact, area-wise, the majority of the state is like that.  It's just that people tend to confuse NYC and its surrounding area with the state as a whole, because a majority of the people in the state live in that small area.


And since the major population centers are generally fairly liberal the result is a progressive state government that's more or less on the right track, similar to California.

At the other extreme you have states like Mississippi, Alabama, and Kansas where the rural population makes up enough of a voting group that they can stimey progress.

Of course, urban population centers don't guarantee progressive government, you still have places like AZ and TX that have large populations in major cities yet manage to be completely backwards in terms of governance.
 
2014-02-07 10:01:15 AM  

dittybopper: HotWingConspiracy: People are saying it's the Russians because they launched it on twitter.

I don't really see how this revelation would aid Germany.

A few points:

1.  If you were Germany, but you didn't want to publicly reveal that you have been intercepting the phone calls of diplomats (which of course they are doing), you'd have a non-German source release it.

2.  It helps Germany in that it drives a wedge between the EU and the US.  Like I said, Germany is the "big dog" in the EU.

3.  It could be merely personal:  Maybe it was Angela Merkel herself that approved it as a payback for the NSA intercepting her phone calls.

Of course, it's almost just as likely that the Russians did it, but why would the Russians do so?  It makes the EU look better in comparison, and that's not going to help them with their problem in the Ukraine.

Then again, screwing with Americans is the Russian national sport, so it may just be Putin tweaking the nose of Obama.
Also, it may have been an entirely different country that we aren't considering, and of course there is always the outside possibility that the intercept was done by a private individual.


I would assume the Russian motivation (outside of just farking with us) would be to drive a wedge between the EU and US on the issue. Sow a bit of mistrust. Though Merkel is out in front shiatting all over us.
 
2014-02-07 10:01:40 AM  
I don't why people are surprised that politcos talk like this in private. It surprised me yesterday when people were dismissing the claims about Bill Clinton and Liz Hurley based on the presumption that Bill wouldn't talk like that. They are people, and when they are not in front of the camera, they are going to conduct themselves the same as you do.
 
2014-02-07 10:02:25 AM  
As opposed to the EU farking everyone else?
 
2014-02-07 10:02:47 AM  

jso2897: Oh. So now you want the Administration to go back to that "Bowing to foreign rulers" y'all were so pissed off about before?


Nah bro. I never was upset about our president respecting other cultures. I'm not at all a Obama hater. I'm a partisan logic hater. I was making fun of people who have been saying something similar about a corrupt fat guy.

/didn't say it was a good joke, or contextually accurate.
 
2014-02-07 10:03:31 AM  

vpb: Good advice, but there used to be a sort or unwritten rule or truce or whatever that you didn't make it public.


Not that I'm aware of.

We've had no problems with releasing the audio of, for example, Russian pilots shooting down aircraft when it suited the US.

The *ONLY* reason that it doesn't happen more often isn't to spare feelings or because there is some sort of casual agreement, it's because when you do so, you immediately let everyone know that you are capable of intercepting those transmissions.

That's an internal, institutional reluctance on the part of the intelligence agencies because they fear losing the goose that lays the golden eggs they so treasure.  In this case, the Russians must have perceived that the benefits would far outweigh the possible downsides.
 
2014-02-07 10:05:08 AM  
boy, you'd think the right wing would eat this up with a spoon. but she works for obama, so i'm sure they're fauxtraged instead.
 
2014-02-07 10:08:23 AM  

RayD8: spawn73: RayD8: The EU is slowly farking itself anyway.

By improving its economy, and now paying of its debts. Oh, noticed someone in Ukraine demonstrating...

Obvious intercepted statement is obvious.

Does this statement refer to your first one, because, then you're making even less sense. They're complaining about the EU not applying enough preassure to resolve the situation.

---

I strongly suspect that you're not aware that the Ukraine is not an EU memberstate, and you have problems telling an economic union, and a continent apart. Furthermore, I don't think you grasp the difference between an economic and a political union.

Wow, read too much into a statement on Fark much? Yep, just ask Greece how terrific the union is working out. Mind you, without Germany they may have gone under. Spain, Italy etc etc. Economic power houses right?
I strongly suspect you're an idiot.
Furthermore, I think you're an idiot.
I was born in Kastrup by the way. Family moved to Australia.
How's your taxes and cost of living going in Danska?


Yes, Greece would have gone under. No shiat Sherlock.

You think I'm an idiot, you don't know shiat.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/09/world-happiness-report-happ ie st-countries_n_3894041.html

I won't spoil it for you, but Denmark is ranked number 1, as always. That's how it's going for you. Good for you to have been born in Denmark, but you're not Danish, so don't use that in an argument, especially one that has fark all to do with Denmark.
 
2014-02-07 10:09:00 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: I would assume the Russian motivation (outside of just farking with us) would be to drive a wedge between the EU and US on the issue. Sow a bit of mistrust. Though Merkel is out in front shiatting all over us.


I'm leaning towards Russia, but Germany is still a close second.

I'd like to know where Nuland was physically located when she was talking to Pyatt.  If she was in the US and Pyatt was in the Ukraine, then probably Russia.  If she was in Europe, then maybe 60/40 Russia/Germany.
 
2014-02-07 10:14:22 AM  

spawn73: Uh, where you betting I had zero reading comprehension, or is that you?


I don't even know what point you're trying to make any more. I'm gonna assume you're just flailing at the keyboard after suffering some kind of stroke.

spawn73: Greece isn't Brazil. Greece would have gone from a developed nation to collapsed shiathole.


1) People were saying the same shiat about Brazil in 1990.

2) Greece would benefit enormously from wiping out their debt and being able to inflate their currency. Being on the Euro means nobody's hiring and nobody can afford anything.
 
2014-02-07 10:14:37 AM  
Oh, there's more of that Smart Diplomacy©Obama and his supporters kept promising us.
On a related note, I'm sure the latest Obama Campaign Bundler to be nominated to become our Ambassador to Argentia will do a fine job..... even though he's never been there, and the last four presidents have seen fit to assign career Foreign Service Officers as our Argentinian Ambassadors. I'm sure Noah Mamet will wing it just fine; Latin America is unimportant enough that we can send rank amateurs to represent us.

Smart Diplomacy©! Start with an 'Overcharge!' button given to the Russians, and go downhill from there!
 
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