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(New York Daily News)   DeBlasio announces grants for the city's fashion industry, which is barely hanging on at $11 billion a year. Corporate welfare - it's okay when progressives do it   (nydailynews.com) divider line 86
    More: Asinine, Blasio, City Council Speaker Christine Quinn, DeBlasio, fashions, corporate welfare, Chirlane McCray, concessions  
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385 clicks; posted to Politics » on 07 Feb 2014 at 8:24 AM (28 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-02-07 08:27:30 AM
I know the headline is a troll, but let's be honest, it's not okay when anyone does it.
 
2014-02-07 08:28:48 AM
No, it's not.

I like how conservatives have basically given up even trying. You morons are just ridin' out this long, slow death of relevance at this point, aren't you?
 
2014-02-07 08:31:21 AM
FTFA: The industry employs 180,000 people in the city and pays out nearly $11 billion in wages.

 The grants come to $3 million. If this keeps the industry strong, it is probably revenue positive. We are not talking about developing an entire fleet of aircraft that are going straight to the scrapyard.
 
2014-02-07 08:31:28 AM
No, it's not. Why is it the only time Republicans "make sense" is when you believe in lies?
 
2014-02-07 08:32:29 AM

skozlaw: No, it's not.

I like how conservatives have basically given up even trying. You morons are just ridin' out this long, slow death of relevance at this point, aren't you?


When you're an incompetent old scared racist bigoted white guy, you have to blame things on SOMEONE ...besides yourself.
 
2014-02-07 08:33:08 AM
Maybe if they bailed out the people the industries won't need the government to keep them afloat as the common man/woman will have spendable income. To you know, spend. On shiat like fashion.
 
2014-02-07 08:36:26 AM

TheGregiss: Maybe if they bailed out the people the industries won't need the government to keep them afloat as the common man/woman will have spendable income. To you know, spend. On shiat like fashion.


Lower taxes would work
 
2014-02-07 08:36:53 AM

GameSprocket: FTFA: The industry employs 180,000 people in the city and pays out nearly $11 billion in wages.

 The grants come to $3 million. If this keeps the industry strong, it is probably revenue positive. We are not talking about developing an entire fleet of aircraft that are going straight to the scrapyard.


My guess is that "fashion industry" has some gay subtext that makes any grants it receives a de facto government subsidy of the gay lifestyle.

/All part of their fabsidious agenda.
 
2014-02-07 08:38:47 AM

INeedAName: I know the headline is a troll, but let's be honest, it's not okay when anyone does it.


Done in one
 
2014-02-07 08:38:54 AM

dantheman195: TheGregiss: Maybe if they bailed out the people the industries won't need the government to keep them afloat as the common man/woman will have spendable income. To you know, spend. On shiat like fashion.

Lower taxes would work


Because that's worked wonders so far. Up the tax rate on the companies who won't hire. 95% and then tax breaks are conditional on retaining employees for 5+ years.
 
2014-02-07 08:41:23 AM
Lower taxes would work

Heh... Like a broken farking record.
 
2014-02-07 08:44:56 AM
My, they sound concerned.

They don't want corporate welfare to stop. They just want an excuse to do it without feeling like they screw people over.  And "See? Dems do it too! Dems do it too!" allows them to feel better when they do it.
 
2014-02-07 08:47:30 AM

dantheman195: TheGregiss: Maybe if they bailed out the people the industries won't need the government to keep them afloat as the common man/woman will have spendable income. To you know, spend. On shiat like fashion.

Lower taxes would work


...We've seen that they haven't.

/When the tax rate drops to 0 everywhere and the economy stagnates even further, then will you see that cutting taxes doesn't work?
 
2014-02-07 09:04:31 AM
$11 billion? That's enough to rent 3 apartments on the upper east side.
 
2014-02-07 09:08:23 AM

IlGreven: When the tax rate drops to 0 everywhere and the economy stagnates even further, then will you see that cutting taxes doesn't work?


Haha!  No.
 
2014-02-07 09:09:21 AM
Headline: DeBlasio announces grants for the city's fashion industry, which is barely hanging on at $11 billion a year.

FTA: The industry employs 180,000 people in the city and pays out nearly $11 billion in wages.

Why, it almost seems as if subby is being intellectually honest.

//just for perspective, $11 billion is about a year's worth of profit at Bank of America.
 
2014-02-07 09:18:23 AM

Arkanaut: //just for perspective, $11 billion is about a year's worth of profit at Bank of America.


Don't worry, DeBlasio's in the banks' pocket too, except for when he's knobgobbling real-estate moguls under the guise of animal rights.

Let's hear how having billionaire Diane von Furstenburg at the photo-op...in furs, no less...is emblematic of DeBlasio's concern for what income inequality is doing to the city.

One month in and Deblasio's not even trying to pretend he wasn't bought.
 
2014-02-07 09:21:40 AM

Gulper Eel: DeBlasio's in the banks' pocket too


Is there any evidence to support this claim?
 
2014-02-07 09:24:55 AM
It sounds bad - I was about ready to froth at the mouth based on the headline - but now that I've RTFA, this really isn't corporate welfare. One of the things the city does is offer grants to small businesses, like restaurants, startup movie production houses, small manufacturers, technology startups (like one that my friend is a co-founder of, which is why I know about this), and in this case, fashion and clothing designers. Startup costs are high in the city, so the city government offers startup incentives in the form of grants to supplement SBA loans and state tax credits. You don't qualify if you're an existing large business, or if you don't have a solid qualifying business plan. It works out pretty well for us. There's certainly a debate to be had about the propriety of these grants - I think reasonable people can disagree - but this isn't a handout to existing players.
 
2014-02-07 09:25:34 AM

Wooly Bully: Gulper Eel: DeBlasio's in the banks' pocket too

Is there any evidence to support this claim?


Hahaha... no.
 
2014-02-07 09:29:16 AM

Wooly Bully: Gulper Eel: DeBlasio's in the banks' pocket too

Is there any evidence to support this claim?


DEM-CRAT! DEM-CRAT BAD!
 
2014-02-07 09:30:10 AM
No it's not.
 
2014-02-07 09:30:39 AM

captainktainer: It sounds bad - I was about ready to froth at the mouth based on the headline - but now that I've RTFA, this really isn't corporate welfare. One of the things the city does is offer grants to small businesses, like restaurants, startup movie production houses, small manufacturers, technology startups (like one that my friend is a co-founder of, which is why I know about this), and in this case, fashion and clothing designers. Startup costs are high in the city, so the city government offers startup incentives in the form of grants to supplement SBA loans and state tax credits. You don't qualify if you're an existing large business, or if you don't have a solid qualifying business plan. It works out pretty well for us. There's certainly a debate to be had about the propriety of these grants - I think reasonable people can disagree - but this isn't a handout to existing players.


And how many conservatives do you think will notice?
 
2014-02-07 09:30:58 AM

Wooly Bully: Is there any evidence to support this claim?


But of course.

The financial industry bought every other major politician in the tri-state area. Both parties. Yes, even Saint Cory Booker. They are nothing if not thorough.
 
2014-02-07 09:33:16 AM

A Cave Geek: captainktainer: It sounds bad - I was about ready to froth at the mouth based on the headline - but now that I've RTFA, this really isn't corporate welfare. One of the things the city does is offer grants to small businesses, like restaurants, startup movie production houses, small manufacturers, technology startups (like one that my friend is a co-founder of, which is why I know about this), and in this case, fashion and clothing designers. Startup costs are high in the city, so the city government offers startup incentives in the form of grants to supplement SBA loans and state tax credits. You don't qualify if you're an existing large business, or if you don't have a solid qualifying business plan. It works out pretty well for us. There's certainly a debate to be had about the propriety of these grants - I think reasonable people can disagree - but this isn't a handout to existing players.

And how many conservatives do you think will notice?


Most of them are still struggling with the idea that the New Deal didn't cause the Great Depression, so not many. As I said, reasonablepeople can disagree.
 
2014-02-07 09:36:06 AM

captainktainer: A Cave Geek: captainktainer: It sounds bad - I was about ready to froth at the mouth based on the headline - but now that I've RTFA, this really isn't corporate welfare. One of the things the city does is offer grants to small businesses, like restaurants, startup movie production houses, small manufacturers, technology startups (like one that my friend is a co-founder of, which is why I know about this), and in this case, fashion and clothing designers. Startup costs are high in the city, so the city government offers startup incentives in the form of grants to supplement SBA loans and state tax credits. You don't qualify if you're an existing large business, or if you don't have a solid qualifying business plan. It works out pretty well for us. There's certainly a debate to be had about the propriety of these grants - I think reasonable people can disagree - but this isn't a handout to existing players.

And how many conservatives do you think will notice?

Most of them are still struggling with the idea that the New Deal didn't cause the Great Depression, so not many. As I said, reasonablepeople can disagree.


Well that rules out the entirety of the tea party and most of the GOP...
 
2014-02-07 09:36:43 AM
The money goes to 7 small businesses, so on average each one gets about $300K.

But let's pretend this is the same as the $52 billion is oil industry subsidies
 
2014-02-07 09:37:24 AM

Gulper Eel: Wooly Bully: Is there any evidence to support this claim?

But of course.

The financial industry bought every other major politician in the tri-state area. Both parties. Yes, even Saint Cory Booker. They are nothing if not thorough.


Donated to is never the same as bought. You know that, but the part of your brain that could express it was short circuited by "DEM-CRAT BAD!" before it got to your typing fingers.
 
2014-02-07 09:44:23 AM

captainktainer: It sounds bad - I was about ready to froth at the mouth based on the headline - but now that I've RTFA, this really isn't corporate welfare. One of the things the city does is offer grants to small businesses, like restaurants, startup movie production houses, small manufacturers, technology startups (like one that my friend is a co-founder of, which is why I know about this), and in this case, fashion and clothing designers. Startup costs are high in the city, so the city government offers startup incentives in the form of grants to supplement SBA loans and state tax credits. You don't qualify if you're an existing large business, or if you don't have a solid qualifying business plan. It works out pretty well for us. There's certainly a debate to be had about the propriety of these grants - I think reasonable people can disagree - but this isn't a handout to existing players.


It's basically like saying "New York gives grants to HOLLYWOOD! HOLLYWOOD doesn't need money!" While ignoring the hundreds of thousands of people in the film and television industry that benefit from places filming here for things and not Vancouver.
 
2014-02-07 09:52:53 AM

Gulper Eel: Wooly Bully: Is there any evidence to support this claim?

But of course.

The financial industry bought every other major politician in the tri-state area. Both parties. Yes, even Saint Cory Booker. They are nothing if not thorough.


Just to be clear, you're counting donations from individual employees at financial firms, correct? So if an assistant managers at McDonald's donated $5 to the DeBlasio campaign, you could claim that McDonald's bought DeBlasio?
 
2014-02-07 09:52:53 AM

James!: Gulper Eel: Wooly Bully: Is there any evidence to support this claim?

But of course.

The financial industry bought every other major politician in the tri-state area. Both parties. Yes, even Saint Cory Booker. They are nothing if not thorough.

Donated to is never the same as bought.


Adorable.

You know that, but the part of your brain that could express it was short circuited by "DEM-CRAT BAD!" before it got to your typing fingers.

Read again more slowly those two words "Both" and "parties". Not that there are a lot of Republican elected officials in the area, but Wall Street has made sure to grab a piece of Chris Christie too. They made sure Al D'Amato played ball when he was chairman of the Senate banking committee back in the day. It's what they do.

I will be a little more impressed if DeBlasio shoots down the proposed sweetheart deal for the soccer stadium in the Bronx, which should have been a slam-dunk hell-no but there it lingers.
 
2014-02-07 10:00:46 AM
Had he not approved the grants, the headline would have been, 'Commie mayor goes on anti-capitalist rampage - revokes grants for small businesses' or something.
 
2014-02-07 10:01:57 AM

Gulper Eel: Read again more slowly those two words "Both" and "parties".


Look, you claimed that DeBlasio is "in the banks' pocket". Everybody knows what this means, and so do you. It means that he's doing the bidding of the banks because his campaign accepted their donations.

Now read again more slowly the article you cited, and you'll find no evidence whatsoever to support your claim.
 
2014-02-07 10:02:51 AM
Walmart: 1 company making $470 billion
Fashion Industry: hundreds of small companies making $11 billion.


ohhhhh yeahhhhh, such corporate welfare I can't believe it.
 
2014-02-07 10:03:40 AM

Gulper Eel: James!: Gulper Eel: Wooly Bully: Is there any evidence to support this claim?

But of course.

The financial industry bought every other major politician in the tri-state area. Both parties. Yes, even Saint Cory Booker. They are nothing if not thorough.

Donated to is never the same as bought.

Adorable.

You know that, but the part of your brain that could express it was short circuited by "DEM-CRAT BAD!" before it got to your typing fingers.

Read again more slowly those two words "Both" and "parties". Not that there are a lot of Republican elected officials in the area, but Wall Street has made sure to grab a piece of Chris Christie too. They made sure Al D'Amato played ball when he was chairman of the Senate banking committee back in the day. It's what they do.

I will be a little more impressed if DeBlasio shoots down the proposed sweetheart deal for the soccer stadium in the Bronx, which should have been a slam-dunk hell-no but there it lingers.


Both sides are bad you say?  And then some complaints about soccer.
 
2014-02-07 10:16:20 AM

skozlaw: No, it's not.

I like how conservatives have basically given up even trying. You morons are just ridin' out this long, slow death of relevance at this point, aren't you?


Remember, we don't mock liberals for what they think. We mock them for what we THINK they think.
 
2014-02-07 10:21:25 AM
img.fark.net
 
2014-02-07 10:27:16 AM

IlGreven: dantheman195: TheGregiss: Maybe if they bailed out the people the industries won't need the government to keep them afloat as the common man/woman will have spendable income. To you know, spend. On shiat like fashion.

Lower taxes would work

...We've seen that they haven't.

/When the tax rate drops to 0 everywhere and the economy stagnates even further, then will you see that cutting taxes doesn't work?


Really? We have some of the highest taxes on the wealthy we've had in decades.

Or maybe you are talking about taxes on the working and middle class, which have been cut.
 
2014-02-07 10:27:47 AM

INeedAName: I know the headline is a troll, but let's be honest, it's not okay when anyone does it.


skozlaw: No, it's not.

I like how conservatives have basically given up even trying. You morons are just ridin' out this long, slow death of relevance at this point, aren't you?


On another forum I had  a wonder discussion with the conservatives independents about a huge (half billion taxpayer dollar plus) giveaway in Detroit to a billionaire Illitch).  Interesting, the  conservatives independents didn't have a problem with state picking winners and losers in that case.
 
2014-02-07 10:32:02 AM

Debeo Summa Credo: Really? We have some of the highest taxes on the wealthy we've had in decades.


Unless you count how we tax any of the ways the wealthy actually make more money over a certain point. Want to compare capital gains to income taxes?
 
2014-02-07 10:35:49 AM
DeBlasio wants the whole city to look fabulous
 
2014-02-07 10:38:35 AM

Bloody William: Debeo Summa Credo: Really? We have some of the highest taxes on the wealthy we've had in decades.

Unless you count how we tax any of the ways the wealthy actually make more money over a certain point. Want to compare capital gains to income taxes?


Want to compare corporate income taxes + dividend taxes to ordinary taxes?
 
2014-02-07 10:40:31 AM

DarwiOdrade: The money goes to 7 small businesses, so on average each one gets about $300K.

But let's pretend this is the same as the $52 billion is oil industry subsidies


Citation please. How much of that $52billion is low income energy assistance program? How much is exemption for farmers from federal fuel tax? How much are tax deductions that congress gave every other industry as well to incent them to keep production in the US?
 
2014-02-07 10:43:10 AM

James!: And then some complaints about soccer.


And? The proposed break for the soccer stadium is bigger than the fashion industry break...if there's a subsidy in the city that's begging to be killed it should be that one. This should have been an easy call for the mayor. Instead he whargarbled about carriage horses.
 
2014-02-07 10:49:52 AM

Gulper Eel: James!: And then some complaints about soccer.

And? The proposed break for the soccer stadium is bigger than the fashion industry break...if there's a subsidy in the city that's begging to be killed it should be that one. This should have been an easy call for the mayor. Instead he whargarbled about carriage horses.


You don't like the soccer stadium therefore DeBlasio is bad also horses.
 
2014-02-07 10:54:30 AM
KeatingFive:   When you're an incompetent guy, you have to blame things on SOMEONE ...besides yourself.

www.thoughtsfromaconservativemom.com
Agreed.
 
2014-02-07 11:05:42 AM

Debeo Summa Credo: Bloody William: Debeo Summa Credo: Really? We have some of the highest taxes on the wealthy we've had in decades.

Unless you count how we tax any of the ways the wealthy actually make more money over a certain point. Want to compare capital gains to income taxes?

Want to compare corporate income taxes + dividend taxes to ordinary taxes?


No, because you brought up "the wealthy." I didn't say anything about corporations except note that the wealthy tend to make most of their money from investments.

Also, after 30 seconds of searching... qualified dividends are taxed at the same rate as capital gains, at a maximum of 20%. corporate income tax rates vary from 15% to 35%, similar to personal income tax but obviously with a much higher set of income tiers ($18.3 million per year is the maximum 35% tax rate). And before you bring up state/local corporate income taxes, those are deductible from federal taxes.

And why would we combine those two types of taxes to do anything other than muddy the discussion? And before you talk about "income being taxed twice" or wherever you were going with that, I'm letting you know I'd point out the many, many different kinds of taxes and fees that could be described as "taxing income twice," and that it's a disingenuous argument to isolate those two examples just to try to finagle some slightly higher numbers than the ones I was presenting.
 
2014-02-07 11:17:06 AM

dantheman195: TheGregiss: Maybe if they bailed out the people the industries won't need the government to keep them afloat as the common man/woman will have spendable income. To you know, spend. On shiat like fashion.

Lower taxes would work


Only if those people have tax liability.

Most of the people who need financial help do not make enough to have any direct tax liability, unless you find a way to exempt them from non-income based taxes (eg sales tax, property tax, fuel/utility taxes).

www.smidgeindustriesltd.com
=Smidge=
 
2014-02-07 11:32:51 AM
I see OligarchDefenderBot is here to be wrong about everything again.
 
2014-02-07 11:55:37 AM

Bloody William: Debeo Summa Credo: Bloody William: Debeo Summa Credo: Really? We have some of the highest taxes on the wealthy we've had in decades.

Unless you count how we tax any of the ways the wealthy actually make more money over a certain point. Want to compare capital gains to income taxes?

Want to compare corporate income taxes + dividend taxes to ordinary taxes?

No, because you brought up "the wealthy." I didn't say anything about corporations except note that the wealthy tend to make most of their money from investments.

Also, after 30 seconds of searching... qualified dividends are taxed at the same rate as capital gains, at a maximum of 20%. corporate income tax rates vary from 15% to 35%, similar to personal income tax but obviously with a much higher set of income tiers ($18.3 million per year is the maximum 35% tax rate). And before you bring up state/local corporate income taxes, those are deductible from federal taxes.

And why would we combine those two types of taxes to do anything other than muddy the discussion? And before you talk about "income being taxed twice" or wherever you were going with that, I'm letting you know I'd point out the many, many different kinds of taxes and fees that could be described as "taxing income twice," and that it's a disingenuous argument to isolate those two examples just to try to finagle some slightly higher numbers than the ones I was presenting.


It's not disingenuous at all. Both of those are income taxes on the same income.

100 rich people start a corporation and the income from that corporation is taxed at 35% (effective rates lower, say 25%). Then when the income of that corporation is distributed to the 100 rich people (by rich I mean their other income already gets them into the top rate) their marginal federal rate is 23.9% (including the 3.9% obamacare tax on investment income) which means that the total federal take is about 43%, not including state or local taxes.

And "deductible" doesn't mean "credit". So if the person is taxed $100 state it doesn't reduce their federal tax liability by $100, but their taxable income is reduced. Assuming the $100 in state taxes was fully deductible (ignoring phase outs and limits that reduce deductibility), the reduction in federal taxes in the above scenario would be only $23.90.

When you consider the two bites at the apple that government has at corporate income, depending on jurisdiction you can end up with less than 50% of pretax corporate income ending up in the pockets of the corporations owners, with a total income tax take of over 50%. THATs the rate you should be comparing to ordinary tax rates.
 
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