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(Slashdot)   Since when was Slashdot a Fark Beta site? Since Dice started redirecting 25% of its users to a failed site redesign   (meta.slashdot.org) divider line 35
    More: Fail, Slashdot a Fark Beta, web designers  
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4109 clicks; posted to Geek » on 07 Feb 2014 at 9:47 AM (45 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
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2014-02-07 01:14:38 PM  
3 votes:
Slashdot Beta has only one good feature.

The ability to switch it off and use the normal site.

Supposedly, that's going to be removed at some point, though.
2014-02-07 11:48:34 AM  
3 votes:

ikanreed: MightyPez: Ah Slashdot. The shining example of a community strangling the site.

Yes, because having a userbase is what holds sites back.  Stellar insight.  Myspace and digg must be doing fantastic with all the freedom from complaints they have.


Wow, it's funny how wrong you took that.

Having a  shiattycommunity holds a site back. I was a regular reader and sometimes commenter on Slashdot and if you didn't follow the zeitgeist you were voted down and screamed at.

"Hey guys, I know Microsoft has done some bad things, but this story about them changing the color of default background really isn't an act of evil."

"Microsoft apologist nazi communist!"
down vote down vote down vote
2014-02-08 12:40:09 PM  
2 votes:
I keep hoping the staff at slashdot will take a moment to listen to Joe's discussion and analysis of the "You'll get over it" redesign, in which - after learning that lesson the hard way - he details precisely the ways that slashdot/dice is farking up right now.

That talk was posted in 2011 and was given at NOTACON 8, so really, they should understand these lessons already. Of course, the staff over there has been ignoring any reasoned response, so I doubt they'll take the time to watch the talk. *sigh*
2014-02-07 12:44:02 PM  
2 votes:
One comment put it thusly:

I've got to say that the initial post on this topic perpetuates one of the paradigms that is sticking in the craws of Slashdot users. We are not an audience. We might be users, we might be members, we most certainly are contributors. But we are not an audience.

If you persist in thinking of us that way, then you're going to get it wrong. You serve an audience differently than you serve contributing members of a community. Most of the complaints hinge on that difference.

If we were an audience, we'd be coming here for the articles. Most of the complaints are about the comment system, how difficult it is to follow a conversation, how difficult it is leave a comment, etc. I come here, most of us come here, to read what my/our fellow slashdotters have to say. The value here is the community, and the most important contributors are other members, not the site or the editors.

If you don't get that straight, then you aren't going to "get" why we're upset, so there's no chance that you'll deliver us something that we can live with. And that community is going to vanish, leaving you with nothing of value.
You can take suggestions and maybe reduce the implosion, but unless you understand *why* we're upset, you're going to be heading in fundamentally the wrong direction.


Which is funny, because I stopped reading Slashdot when I got tired of the  "community."  I'm a human being, in the business of IT, not some basement dwelling linux zealot.

If slashdot is retooled into a IT news aggregator, instead of a whiny nerd circlejerk, I might just stop by again.

If I never have to read M$ again, I'll be happy.
2014-02-07 11:42:14 AM  
2 votes:
Good, kill it off. Let it die.

The redesign is fine, but if the community wants to self destruct, have at. It's been a cesspool for a long time.
2014-02-07 11:29:11 AM  
2 votes:
Anytime someone claims the IT community isn't a bunch of sexist racists douche bags I point them to Slashdot. The comments section always proves me right.
2014-02-07 11:15:48 AM  
2 votes:
Ah Slashdot. The shining example of a community strangling the site.
2014-02-07 11:08:02 AM  
2 votes:

Zel: Princess Ryans Knickers: Beta design way easier on the eyes than the old one.

Unless you wanted to read a lot of text, then all that whitespace is a detriment. I bought big monitors so I could read a lot of text, not so marketing jerks can fill it with ads.


Fark's present design burns about 2" of space on the right column, but the slashdot beta sidebar is almost the entire width of the comments. When comments are nested, the blank sidebar is wider than the comments. Two trivial things that would enhance readability would be to rein in the really wide inter-line spacing and ditch the grey-on-grey color scheme for a more legible black-on-white.

To me, it looks like a mishmash of the trendy UX antipatterns that look great as Photoshop mockups, but are actually detriments to readability: the use of floating bars on the top that break the use of PageUp/PageDown/spacebar for scrolling, the infinite scroll antipattern that makes it difficult to load all comments in a long thread. Replacement of accurate timestamps with vague approximations so it's impossible to tell who's original and who's plagiarizing, etc. Grey-on-grey.

They seem to be making the same mistake Windows 8 (or Digg v4) made: a UX revamp is widely protested by the userbase for months, most feedback is ignored, and despite everyone being aware of the predictable result, nobody in house is willing to admit that the emperor has no clothes. Office politics has its own momentum, and so the owners drive it off the cliff anyways.
2014-02-07 10:21:05 AM  
2 votes:

Zel: Princess Ryans Knickers: Beta design way easier on the eyes than the old one.

Unless you wanted to read a lot of text, then all that whitespace is a detriment. I bought big monitors so I could read a lot of text, not so marketing jerks can fill it with ads.


Slashdot links have digressed to three major genres:  "Everyone should go into Computer Science, except women!" Click bait, "No one should ever pay for software, as an over paid developer I see no downsides to this cunning plan!" type keyboard hippieism or press releases for products and unsustainable SanFran start-ups thinly veiled as news.
Zel
2014-02-07 09:56:06 AM  
2 votes:

Princess Ryans Knickers: Beta design way easier on the eyes than the old one.


Unless you wanted to read a lot of text, then all that whitespace is a detriment. I bought big monitors so I could read a lot of text, not so marketing jerks can fill it with ads.
2014-02-07 07:50:08 PM  
1 votes:
Weird to see all the hate here. the comments are still great and well moderated. There is a big difference if you are logged in and have carefully tweaked your settings. The whole point is flexibility, so you customize the comments to be how you'd like them.

The moderation system though is what makes slashdot great, I wish something more like it was on more sites.
2014-02-07 05:44:46 PM  
1 votes:
Years and years ago, it had insightful posts and discussions on technology. The "M$ sucks!" camp was just the beginning of the downward spiral. Today, it's the geek equivalent of the politics tab. Just a bunch of useless posturing by crazy people who shouldn't be let anywhere near a computer, with the occasional funny post. Even when interesting topics get posted, there's almost no discussion about the actual technology.
2014-02-07 05:44:39 PM  
1 votes:

Vlad_the_Inaner: Forcing javascripted threaded discussion is what made me stop hanging out there.

Give me flat HTML or give me , errr somehing dramatic but not death

/and I had a user number under 4096 too


At one point you could have sold that for some serious money.  But there may be a fire sale on 4 digit accounts if they keep up with the shiny shiny WordPress clone.

/I like WordPress
/but not for forums
2014-02-07 05:19:06 PM  
1 votes:

Geotpf: I must say I am always in the "If it ain't broken, don't fix it" group.  Now, if it's actually broken, or what you are doing is clearly superior, that's different.  But change for change's sake usually results in an inferior product.

Great example: Windows 8.  Windows 7's user interface was nearly pefect 17 years old, so let's completely change everything about it, since tablets and touch devices are all the rageMorons.


FIFY

And morons are the ones who don't know how to get back to the desktop interface.
2014-02-07 03:43:19 PM  
1 votes:

sendtodave: Elegy: beta is a steaming pile of shiat. It took everything that I liked about slashdot - the fact that you can quickly scroll through a linear list of interesting stories - and turned it into a godawful mess resembling Huffpost, brietbart, or other infotainment site.

[img.fark.net image 793x460]

vs

[img.fark.net image 793x460]

...

Less functional to scroll through?  Not seeing it.


Here's what I'm seeing.  Two stories with summaries AND a big ass whimpering "we hear you" box on the regular site, versus one story and just six lines of text on the Beta site even WITHOUT the whimpering box.  FAR FAR less information density.  Right before I refreshed there was one story and about 15 lines of text on the classic site.  (No idea why the top story is different on each; I refreshed both.)

img.fark.net

vs.


img.fark.net
I just lurk at Slashdot (much as I did here until very recently), but the Beta site is terrible and the user revolt in all the threads is somewhat glorious to behold.

As to the "M$" stuff, that seems to be largely a thing of the past -- I've seen many pro-Microsoft posts with +5 ratings.

Slashdot is not a good news aggregator site, because the summaries stink and the editors have ALWAYS been bloody awful at their jobs (typos, duplicates, etc.).  But as the biatchfesters say, its strength was in the high quality of discussion, and driving away good users is not a good move.  Some of them have pointed to Fark as an example (among many) of what happens when a site disregards its core audience.

/10 posts per thread the new normal
2014-02-07 03:26:39 PM  
1 votes:
I thought Slashdot was already a site for betas?

/No Linux distro is more aptly named than "Fedora".
2014-02-07 01:47:25 PM  
1 votes:

sendtodave: One comment put it thusly:

I've got to say that the initial post on this topic perpetuates one of the paradigms that is sticking in the craws of Slashdot users. We are not an audience. We might be users, we might be members, we most certainly are contributors. But we are not an audience.

If you persist in thinking of us that way, then you're going to get it wrong. You serve an audience differently than you serve contributing members of a community. Most of the complaints hinge on that difference.

If we were an audience, we'd be coming here for the articles. Most of the complaints are about the comment system, how difficult it is to follow a conversation, how difficult it is leave a comment, etc. I come here, most of us come here, to read what my/our fellow slashdotters have to say. The value here is the community, and the most important contributors are other members, not the site or the editors.

If you don't get that straight, then you aren't going to "get" why we're upset, so there's no chance that you'll deliver us something that we can live with. And that community is going to vanish, leaving you with nothing of value.
You can take suggestions and maybe reduce the implosion, but unless you understand *why* we're upset, you're going to be heading in fundamentally the wrong direction.

Which is funny, because I stopped reading Slashdot when I got tired of the  "community."  I'm a human being, in the business of IT, not some basement dwelling linux zealot.

If slashdot is retooled into a IT news aggregator, instead of a whiny nerd circlejerk, I might just stop by again.

If I never have to read M$ again, I'll be happy.


Ironically, I found Fark through Slashdot.  The thing that instantly struck me about Fark was they the comment were often as (if not more) insightful than the original article.

Slashdot was usually the opposite.

Furthermore, perhaps Slashdot wants to grow past its current "user" base and has to decide if its worth risking the loss of a few of those users in exchange for  better overall user experience.
2014-02-07 01:15:48 PM  
1 votes:
I still read slashdot because they're a good tech/science aggregator. I wish the geek tab had half as many interesting stories.

I don't participate in the community - fark clicking to expand comments, fark voting and groupthink, fark it all. It's a shiatty system and I won't participate.

That said, beta is a steaming pile of shiat. It took everything that I liked about slashdot - the fact that you can quickly scroll through a linear list of interesting stories - and turned it into a godawful mess resembling Huffpost, brietbart, or other infotainment site.
2014-02-07 12:56:28 PM  
1 votes:

MadMonk: I had forgotten all about slashdot.  I used to go there all the time when I first started screwing around with Linux but then I realized I never really wanted to install Linux or FreeBSD on a toaster or blender, I kind of never went back.


Is this the year of the linux toaster?
2014-02-07 12:41:04 PM  
1 votes:
Slashdot UI is the only thing worse than trying to navigate Reddit.
2014-02-07 12:37:35 PM  
1 votes:

Nemo's Brother: kroonermanblack: BumpInTheNight: Zel: Princess Ryans Knickers: Beta design way easier on the eyes than the old one.

Unless you wanted to read a lot of text, then all that whitespace is a detriment. I bought big monitors so I could read a lot of text, not so marketing jerks can fill it with ads.

Slashdot links have digressed to three major genres:  "Everyone should go into Computer Science, except women!" Click bait, "No one should ever pay for software, as an over paid developer I see no downsides to this cunning plan!" type keyboard hippieism or press releases for products and unsustainable SanFran start-ups thinly veiled as news.

So, basically Fark but stupider? At least fark has flavors of crap with nuts, or corn, or sometimes pretty color!

But Fark isn't what it used to be. In traffic or quality.


Remember when Fark was good?

Fark was never good.
2014-02-07 12:20:36 PM  
1 votes:

Geotpf: I must say I am always in the "If it ain't broken, don't fix it" group.  Now, if it's actually broken, or what you are doing is clearly superior, that's different.  But change for change's sake usually results in an inferior product.

Great example: Windows 8.  Windows 7's user interface was nearly pefect, so let's completely change everything about it.  Morons.


I think the important part is "clearly superior" when making such major changes. Often you can compare a couple of designs and find one is slightly better than the other overall (individual changes can be much better/much worse, but generally there are negatives and positives between the two, so overall it tends to usually be less clear cut).


If creating a new site/app then pick the best one. With something existing the presumption should always be to stay the same as you have potentially years (or decades) of user experience and knowledge of how to use the app/site you are discarding when you change things, so until you can get something that is clearly better for the vast majority of users you should hold back.


Making small incremental changes/improvements should generally be the preferred route, although there are usually limits of how far that can go (and in some cases there are commercial considerations where you want to sell the improvements and so incremental changes would undercut future sales).
2014-02-07 12:20:05 PM  
1 votes:
So where do you go for insightful tech discussion?
2014-02-07 11:59:12 AM  
1 votes:

pxlboy: MightyPez: ikanreed: MightyPez: Ah Slashdot. The shining example of a community strangling the site.

Yes, because having a userbase is what holds sites back.  Stellar insight.  Myspace and digg must be doing fantastic with all the freedom from complaints they have.

Wow, it's funny how wrong you took that.

Having a  shiattycommunity holds a site back. I was a regular reader and sometimes commenter on Slashdot and if you didn't follow the zeitgeist you were voted down and screamed at.

"Hey guys, I know Microsoft has done some bad things, but this story about them changing the color of default background really isn't an act of evil."

"Microsoft apologist nazi communist!"
down vote down vote down vote

Let's not forget the near-constant dick waving that goes on.


Oh yeah. How could I forget about that? Slashdot was a great site for tech and industry information. Then it started becoming a Mad Max-style cesspool.
2014-02-07 11:56:49 AM  
1 votes:

MightyPez: Having a shiattycommunity holds a site back


And yet you post on fark.  Give me a break.
2014-02-07 11:41:30 AM  
1 votes:
I guess I'm not really worried about the redesign of site I gave up on a time long ago. It's been a while since /. has been anything but a biatch fest (and I speaking as someone who used to love /. ). It's rare that you see a thread there that doesn't rapidly devolve into name calling. It's like the politics tab, but worse.
2014-02-07 11:29:13 AM  
1 votes:
Slashcode's a farking mess, or at least it produces a UI that's a farking mess. However.

The whole farking point of Slashdot is the discussions, and the whole discussion model is based on threading, distributed moderation, and moderation-based display/collapse/hiding of posts.

Beta completely broke the display/collapse/hide model. You can set one threshold; comments scored above that threshold show in their entirety, and comments scored below it are hidden completely.

I have my own feelings about the look of the old site vs. the beta. But without the basic functionality of hiding, collapsing, and displaying based on dual thresholds, beta Just. Doesn't. Work.

I was happy to see the comment section reduced to a seething cauldron of Beta-hate, because the folks running the site gave every impression of ignoring all the feedback they'd gotten over months of lower-intensity beta-testing. This seems to have gotten their attention.

I'd like to see people going back to actual discussion now, but it looks like people aren't willing to let go. Whatever. It's not like I lived there anyhow.
2014-02-07 11:25:40 AM  
1 votes:
I must say I am always in the "If it ain't broken, don't fix it" group.  Now, if it's actually broken, or what you are doing is clearly superior, that's different.  But change for change's sake usually results in an inferior product.

Great example: Windows 8.  Windows 7's user interface was nearly pefect, so let's completely change everything about it.  Morons.
2014-02-07 11:25:12 AM  
1 votes:

MightyPez: Ah Slashdot. The shining example of a community strangling the site.


Yes, because having a userbase is what holds sites back.  Stellar insight.  Myspace and digg must be doing fantastic with all the freedom from complaints they have.
2014-02-07 11:21:41 AM  
1 votes:

kroonermanblack: BumpInTheNight: Zel: Princess Ryans Knickers: Beta design way easier on the eyes than the old one.

Unless you wanted to read a lot of text, then all that whitespace is a detriment. I bought big monitors so I could read a lot of text, not so marketing jerks can fill it with ads.

Slashdot links have digressed to three major genres:  "Everyone should go into Computer Science, except women!" Click bait, "No one should ever pay for software, as an over paid developer I see no downsides to this cunning plan!" type keyboard hippieism or press releases for products and unsustainable SanFran start-ups thinly veiled as news.

So, basically Fark but stupider? At least fark has flavors of crap with nuts, or corn, or sometimes pretty color!


But Fark isn't what it used to be. In traffic or quality.
2014-02-07 11:14:06 AM  
1 votes:

styckx: So they hate it because it's easy on the eyes and comments section is not a clusterfark?


The comments section is the only good thing about the old design. Yeah, it's ugly. But the threaded conversations, the moderation and karma system work really well.

//.
//that was only one slashie.
////.
2014-02-07 11:11:27 AM  
1 votes:
The Slashdot comment moderation system sucks like a million paper cuts.
2014-02-07 10:53:38 AM  
1 votes:

BumpInTheNight: Zel: Princess Ryans Knickers: Beta design way easier on the eyes than the old one.

Unless you wanted to read a lot of text, then all that whitespace is a detriment. I bought big monitors so I could read a lot of text, not so marketing jerks can fill it with ads.

Slashdot links have digressed to three major genres:  "Everyone should go into Computer Science, except women!" Click bait, "No one should ever pay for software, as an over paid developer I see no downsides to this cunning plan!" type keyboard hippieism or press releases for products and unsustainable SanFran start-ups thinly veiled as news.


Don't forget about the 9,132 open-source project announcements per day, followed the next day by 9,133 project abandonment announcements.
2014-02-07 10:49:42 AM  
1 votes:
slashdot is shiat anyway. how could anyone tell it was broken?
2014-02-07 09:48:29 AM  
1 votes:
You'll get over it.
 
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