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(Federal News Radio)   Severe budget cuts are significantly impacting the ability of the IRS to persecute conservatives   (federalnewsradio.com) divider line 99
    More: Sad, IRS, Commissioner of Internal Revenue, austerities  
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2963 clicks; posted to Main » on 06 Feb 2014 at 8:38 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



99 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2014-02-06 08:47:35 AM  
The RNC's new slogan should be, "Always the victim."
 
2014-02-06 08:48:25 AM  
This just means that Job Creators won't be so unnecessarily burdened with abiding by trivialities like federal tax law.
 
2014-02-06 08:49:36 AM  
An underfunded IRS is a good thing for everyone.
 
2014-02-06 08:50:51 AM  
Budget cuts mean reduced services and staffing.  Meanwhile, just last week it was announced that the IRS would be paying bonuses to managers.  They sound like a bank or something.
 
2014-02-06 08:52:02 AM  
Isn't prosecuting how the IRS raises its income?
 
2014-02-06 08:53:55 AM  

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: An underfunded IRS is a good thing for everyone.


From the point of view of an antisocial psychopath, yes. A normal person, not so much.
 
2014-02-06 08:55:36 AM  
Don't change the tax law. Just make it harder to collect. Then, scream about how inefficient government always operates.

/profit
 
2014-02-06 08:57:34 AM  

EvilEgg: Isn't prosecuting how the IRS raises its income?


You have to REALLY REALLY REALLY piss off the IRS to end up in court. Basically if you aren't extremely wealthy, famous, or do something incredibly outright criminal to defraud them, they are more than happy to tack on some interest and penalties to your bill for whatever you did and call it a day. They know locking someone up or seizing their assets of your typical middle class person to the point that someone is living in poverty isn't going to help their overall goal, which is getting money from you. Basically they need to know locking you up won't interrupt your income stream, or will make such a big headline that it will keep others in line to follow that course.

A few years ago we had to unravel a mess of back taxes with an elderly relative of mine, and I found the IRS extremely professional and accommodating while going through everything. They are, after all, a bunch of accountants.
 
2014-02-06 08:58:18 AM  

jso2897: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: An underfunded IRS is a good thing for everyone.

From the point of view of an antisocial psychopath, yes. A normal person, not so much.


Could you explain how this is bad for a 'normal person'?

Thank you
 
2014-02-06 09:00:32 AM  

LineNoise: They are, after all, a bunch of

EVIL accountants.

Fixed that for you
 
2014-02-06 09:02:31 AM  

jso2897: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: An underfunded IRS is a good thing for everyone.

From the point of view of an antisocial psychopath, yes. A normal person, not so much.


static2.wikia.nocookie.net

You really need to have a stiff drink and relax.
 
2014-02-06 09:04:43 AM  

jso2897: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: An underfunded IRS is a good thing for everyone.

From the point of view of an antisocial psychopath, yes. A normal person, not so much.


Those founding fathers of ours were a bunch of antisocial psychopaths as well
 
2014-02-06 09:05:37 AM  
The Party of Tax Cheats rejoices.
 
2014-02-06 09:06:46 AM  

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: An underfunded IRS is a good thing for everyone.


jso2897: From the point of view of an antisocial psychopath, yes. A normal person, not so much.


dantheman195: Could you explain how this is bad for a 'normal person'?


Because I pay my goddamn motherfarking taxes.  I don't play games so I've never once had a problem with the IRS.
If the IRS lacks the resources to catch the cheaters, that either causes tax rates to go up  to compensate or destabilizes government and right now we're staring down both barrels.

You want the IRS to be underfunded, odds are it's because you're an "I got mine" greedy sociopathic cheater of a liar.
If you don't like our abominable tax code, take your grievances to the guys that write terrible bills.  The IRS are the poor slobs whose duty is to make Congress' gobbledegook work.


. . . Then again, I suppose an honest responsible citizen is the furthest thing from a "normal person" in this country these days, no never farkin' mind.
 
2014-02-06 09:08:40 AM  
SHOCKER!
*jazz hands*

Epic Fap Session: The RNC's new slogan should be, "Always the victim."


It's all the persecution.  Won't people just let them be assholes the way they want?
 
2014-02-06 09:09:14 AM  

LineNoise: EvilEgg: Isn't prosecuting how the IRS raises its income?

You have to REALLY REALLY REALLY piss off the IRS to end up in court. Basically if you aren't extremely wealthy, famous, or do something incredibly outright criminal to defraud them, they are more than happy to tack on some interest and penalties to your bill for whatever you did and call it a day. They know locking someone up or seizing their assets of your typical middle class person to the point that someone is living in poverty isn't going to help their overall goal, which is getting money from you. Basically they need to know locking you up won't interrupt your income stream, or will make such a big headline that it will keep others in line to follow that course.

A few years ago we had to unravel a mess of back taxes with an elderly relative of mine, and I found the IRS extremely professional and accommodating while going through everything. They are, after all, a bunch of accountants.


Back in 2009, I bought a house. I used money from a college fund my parents set up for me to cover the down payment. My mom was listed on the account, and as a result, my parents accounted for that money on their taxes. Two years later, I got a letter from the IRS saying I owed about $8,000 in back taxes, penalties, and interest. We've now supplied them with enough corroborating evidence to kill a rhino. At various points, they said I owed penalties and interest even though they said I didn't owe the actual taxes that triggered the penalties and interest in the first place. They still have not sent me a letter definitively stating my bill is zero.
 
2014-02-06 09:09:33 AM  

dantheman195: Could you explain how this is bad for a 'normal person'?


I'll remember that the next time I hear some idiot whining about unfixed potholes on a road with no money in its budget because some dick filled out his tax forms "creatively" and the IRS didn't have the staff to go after him. Or I'm listening to some asshole whining that he hates the IRS so much because every time he calls with a simple question the hold time is four hours.
 
2014-02-06 09:10:10 AM  

dantheman195: jso2897: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: An underfunded IRS is a good thing for everyone.

From the point of view of an antisocial psychopath, yes. A normal person, not so much.

Could you explain how this is bad for a 'normal person'?


Left to their own devices, many people will cheat on their taxes (either underpaying what they owe, or claiming refunds that they are not entitled to). People who cheat on their taxes deprive the government of revenue to fund important services and cause honest taxpayers to shoulder a bigger burden. Having an agency that vigorously enforces tax obligations against those who cheat is a positive thing for the honest taxpayer.

/bracing for the incoming derpstorm...
 
2014-02-06 09:10:48 AM  

dragonchild: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: An underfunded IRS is a good thing for everyone.

jso2897: From the point of view of an antisocial psychopath, yes. A normal person, not so much.

dantheman195: Could you explain how this is bad for a 'normal person'?

Because I pay my goddamn motherfarking taxes.  I don't play games so I've never once had a problem with the IRS.
If the IRS lacks the resources to catch the cheaters, that either causes tax rates to go up  to compensate or destabilizes government and right now we're staring down both barrels.

You want the IRS to be underfunded, odds are it's because you're an "I got mine" greedy sociopathic cheater of a liar.
If you don't like our abominable tax code, take your grievances to the guys that write terrible bills.  The IRS are the poor slobs whose duty is to make Congress' gobbledegook work.


. . . Then again, I suppose an honest responsible citizen is the furthest thing from a "normal person" in this country these days, no never farkin' mind.


i3.kym-cdn.com

Go get some sleep, and come back when you're ready to have a civil conversation.
 
2014-02-06 09:11:38 AM  

EyeballKid: The Party of Tax Cheats rejoices.


www.fingersmalloy.com
 
2014-02-06 09:16:58 AM  

Epic Fap Session: The RNC's new slogan should be, "Always the victim."


I thought that was the NACCP's motto?
 
2014-02-06 09:17:55 AM  

dantheman195: jso2897: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: An underfunded IRS is a good thing for everyone.

From the point of view of an antisocial psychopath, yes. A normal person, not so much.

Could you explain how this is bad for a 'normal person'?

Thank you


Because the first item they'll cut is the service that helps people answer questions about their taxes and prepare for audits:

Link
 
2014-02-06 09:17:57 AM  

dantheman195: jso2897: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: An underfunded IRS is a good thing for everyone.

From the point of view of an antisocial psychopath, yes. A normal person, not so much.

Could you explain how this is bad for a 'normal person'?

Thank you


Yes: A normal person values his own survival.
For modern man to exist as modern man, civilization is necessary.
For civilization to exist, government is necessary.
For government to exist, taxes must be levied and collected.
For that to happen, the IRS, or something like it, is necessary.
Therefore, and intelligent person realizes that such an institution is necessary to his survival as a modern, civilized man.
Normal people value their own survival, and do not regard things that are necessary to their own survival as "bad".
 
2014-02-06 09:20:00 AM  
Budget cuts are "impacting" something, Subby? Orly? The word "impact" can refer to a car hitting a tree, a meteor hitting the earth, or shiate hardening like concrete as it struggles through the rectum, but other than in figurative terms, the IRS is not being impacted.

The word is "affected". Drink it, followed by a nice mineral oil enema.
 
2014-02-06 09:21:04 AM  

dragonchild: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: An underfunded IRS is a good thing for everyone.

jso2897: From the point of view of an antisocial psychopath, yes. A normal person, not so much.

dantheman195: Could you explain how this is bad for a 'normal person'?

Because I pay my goddamn motherfarking taxes.  I don't play games so I've never once had a problem with the IRS.
If the IRS lacks the resources to catch the cheaters, that either causes tax rates to go up  to compensate or destabilizes government and right now we're staring down both barrels.

You want the IRS to be underfunded, odds are it's because you're an "I got mine" greedy sociopathic cheater of a liar.
If you don't like our abominable tax code, take your grievances to the guys that write terrible bills.  The IRS are the poor slobs whose duty is to make Congress' gobbledegook work.


. . . Then again, I suppose an honest responsible citizen is the furthest thing from a "normal person" in this country these days, no never farkin' mind.


Dude - you are right. But, you are at about a 9.45 right now, and we need you at about a 6. Seriously - chill.
 
2014-02-06 09:22:13 AM  

Trollomite: Epic Fap Session: The RNC's new slogan should be, "Always the victim."

I thought that was the NACCP's motto?


The difference is that for a large chunk of America's history, black people were actual victims.
 
2014-02-06 09:24:39 AM  

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: dragonchild: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: An underfunded IRS is a good thing for everyone.

jso2897: From the point of view of an antisocial psychopath, yes. A normal person, not so much.

dantheman195: Could you explain how this is bad for a 'normal person'?

Because I pay my goddamn motherfarking taxes.  I don't play games so I've never once had a problem with the IRS.
If the IRS lacks the resources to catch the cheaters, that either causes tax rates to go up  to compensate or destabilizes government and right now we're staring down both barrels.

You want the IRS to be underfunded, odds are it's because you're an "I got mine" greedy sociopathic cheater of a liar.
If you don't like our abominable tax code, take your grievances to the guys that write terrible bills.  The IRS are the poor slobs whose duty is to make Congress' gobbledegook work.


. . . Then again, I suppose an honest responsible citizen is the furthest thing from a "normal person" in this country these days, no never farkin' mind.

[i3.kym-cdn.com image 500x375]

Go get some sleep, and come back when you're ready to have a civil conversation.


Sounds to me like he has his priorities straight.  The only people who believe that it would be good to underfund or disband the IRS are either greedy sociopaths or ignoramuses.  If you don't like being lumped in with those two groups then that's not dragonchild's fault.

Put it this way: it has been detailed in this thread why underfunding or disbanding the IRS would be not just a bad thing but a very bad thing.  If you could state why you think it would be a good thing to disrupt the IRS' ability to collect revenue that properly funds the government, please do so.
 
2014-02-06 09:26:09 AM  

dragonchild: Because I pay my goddamn motherfarking taxes.  I don't play games so I've never once had a problem with the IRS.
If the IRS lacks the resources to catch the cheaters, that either causes tax rates to go up  to compensate or destabilizes government and right now we're staring down both barrels.

You want the IRS to be underfunded, odds are it's because you're an "I got mine" greedy sociopathic cheater of a liar.
If you don't like our abominable tax code, take your grievances to the guys that write terrible bills.  The IRS are the poor slobs whose duty is to make Congress' gobbledegook work.


You don't seem to get it.  Taxes are used to pay for  other people's stuff.  The government steals money from me to repair roads I never use, teach children who aren't mine, put out fires at buildings I don't own, and prosecute criminals who didn't do anything to me.  I don't owe anything to this society I'm a part of, since when I was on welfare, did anyone help me?  No!  If I can't notice how much I rely on our infrastructure, that means I shouldn't be obligated to pay for it.

You just don't understand the basic, primal, visceral fear of spending money that may be used to benefit  other people.
 
2014-02-06 09:29:43 AM  

dantheman195: jso2897: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: An underfunded IRS is a good thing for everyone.

From the point of view of an antisocial psychopath, yes. A normal person, not so much.

Could you explain how this is bad for a 'normal person'?



I could, but if you honestly don't already understand why we need taxes, nothing I say is going to penetrate your thick skull.
 
2014-02-06 09:30:21 AM  

Trollomite: Epic Fap Session: The RNC's new slogan should be, "Always the victim."

I thought that was the NACCP's motto?


The National Acronym Confusion Committee Pinheads?
 
2014-02-06 09:41:59 AM  

Fast Moon: dragonchild: Because I pay my goddamn motherfarking taxes.  I don't play games so I've never once had a problem with the IRS.
If the IRS lacks the resources to catch the cheaters, that either causes tax rates to go up  to compensate or destabilizes government and right now we're staring down both barrels.

You want the IRS to be underfunded, odds are it's because you're an "I got mine" greedy sociopathic cheater of a liar.
If you don't like our abominable tax code, take your grievances to the guys that write terrible bills.  The IRS are the poor slobs whose duty is to make Congress' gobbledegook work.

You don't seem to get it.  Taxes are used to pay for  other people's stuff.  The government steals money from me to repair roads I never use, teach children who aren't mine, put out fires at buildings I don't own, and prosecute criminals who didn't do anything to me.  I don't owe anything to this society I'm a part of, since when I was on welfare, did anyone help me?  No!  If I can't notice how much I rely on our infrastructure, that means I shouldn't be obligated to pay for it.

You just don't understand the basic, primal, visceral fear of spending money that may be used to benefit  other people.


southparkstudios.mtvnimages.com

"IT'S ALL ABOUT MEEEEEE!!!!!"
 
2014-02-06 09:44:43 AM  
Why not just tax everything 10%. For people who cry about po folks, they are already getting hand outs and personal deductions

jso2897: dantheman195: jso2897: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: An underfunded IRS is a good thing for everyone.

From the point of view of an antisocial psychopath, yes. A normal person, not so much.

Could you explain how this is bad for a 'normal person'?

Thank you

Yes: A normal person values his own survival.
For modern man to exist as modern man, civilization is necessary.
For civilization to exist, government is necessary.
For government to exist, taxes must be levied and collected.
For that to happen, the IRS, or something like it, is necessary.
Therefore, and intelligent person realizes that such an institution is necessary to his survival as a modern, civilized man.
Normal people value their own survival, and do not regard things that are necessary to their own survival as "bad".


You are confusing "dude wants to get rid of the IRS" with "Schmuck doesn't want to pay taxes".

Wanting to get rid of the IRS does not mean you don't want to pay taxes.  You might simply prefer a 10% tax on everything people buy, rather than social engineering through handouts given to baby makers and solar panel buyers.

People can cry all they want about hating IRS accountants just following the law and it is really Congress creating the laws, but if your local gets to bust down your door because the music is too loud, well, then you are going to be irritated at the constable for busting down your door...
 
2014-02-06 09:46:26 AM  
We're using the bizarro-world definition of "persecute", I presume?
 
2014-02-06 09:47:58 AM  

ciberido: dantheman195: jso2897: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: An underfunded IRS is a good thing for everyone.

From the point of view of an antisocial psychopath, yes. A normal person, not so much.

Could you explain how this is bad for a 'normal person'?


I could, but if you honestly don't already understand why we need taxes, nothing I say is going to penetrate your thick skull.


Look at Greece.
Cheating on taxes was a way of life.
 
2014-02-06 09:49:06 AM  
The levels of hate and vitriol in this thread please the Great Master™
 
2014-02-06 09:57:45 AM  

Kit Fister: The levels of hate and vitriol in this thread please the Great Master™


Torgo? Is that you?
 
2014-02-06 09:58:38 AM  

Serious Black: Back in 2009, I bought a house. I used money from a college fund my parents set up for me to cover the down payment. My mom was listed on the account, and as a result, my parents accounted for that money on their taxes. Two years later, I got a letter from the IRS saying I owed about $8,000 in back taxes, penalties, and interest. We've now supplied them with enough corroborating evidence to kill a rhino. At various points, they said I owed penalties and interest even though they said I didn't owe the actual taxes that triggered the penalties and interest in the first place. They still have not sent me a letter definitively stating my bill is zero.


How so?  Your mother withdrew $8k from a joint account basically as a gift to you and now she wants a tax break?  Or did she try to claim mortgage tax deduction on a house she doesn't own?  What exactly was she trying to do here?  And no, just throwing enough paper to "kill a rhino" doesn't exonerate you for shiat, although it seems they were gracious enough to give up.

I'm really not buying your side of the story, here.
 
2014-02-06 10:05:17 AM  
10% tax on everything you buy targets those of us who spend every penny they get on necessities.  The people who spend 1% of their money and stuff the rest under the mattress (in the Cayman Islands) are smiling even more than usual.
 
2014-02-06 10:08:56 AM  

dragonchild: Serious Black: Back in 2009, I bought a house. I used money from a college fund my parents set up for me to cover the down payment. My mom was listed on the account, and as a result, my parents accounted for that money on their taxes. Two years later, I got a letter from the IRS saying I owed about $8,000 in back taxes, penalties, and interest. We've now supplied them with enough corroborating evidence to kill a rhino. At various points, they said I owed penalties and interest even though they said I didn't owe the actual taxes that triggered the penalties and interest in the first place. They still have not sent me a letter definitively stating my bill is zero.

How so?  Your mother withdrew $8k from a joint account basically as a gift to you and now she wants a tax break?  Or did she try to claim mortgage tax deduction on a house she doesn't own?  What exactly was she trying to do here?  And no, just throwing enough paper to "kill a rhino" doesn't exonerate you for shiat, although it seems they were gracious enough to give up.

I'm really not buying your side of the story, here.



I was trying to figure that out too.  With nothing more than his statement, sounds like someone was cheating on their taxes.
 
2014-02-06 10:15:37 AM  

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Go get some sleep, and come back when you're ready to have a civil conversation.


Not with an opening line of, "An underfunded IRS is a good thing for everyone." you aren't. That isn't the opening of a civil conversation, it is the opening of a can of derp.

Hang on, somebody already pointed it out:

give me doughnuts: Look at Greece.
Cheating on taxes was a way of life.


Greeks by-and-large didn't pay their taxes because (among other things) the local version of the IRS didn't or couldn't go after tax cheats.  Leading to their massive budget shortfall.  I realize the right-wing meme is to blame vague undefined "socialism" but the math in their budget would have worked out if they weren't lying to themselves about how much tax fraud was going to happen.
 
2014-02-06 10:17:49 AM  

Arkanaut: dantheman195: jso2897: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: An underfunded IRS is a good thing for everyone.

From the point of view of an antisocial psychopath, yes. A normal person, not so much.

Could you explain how this is bad for a 'normal person'?

Thank you

Because the first item they'll cut is the service that helps people answer questions about their taxes and prepare for audits:

Link


Hey, look, that only affects people to poor to have their own accountants.  Who cares about those stinky 99%ers?
 
2014-02-06 10:20:13 AM  

skozlaw: dantheman195: Could you explain how this is bad for a 'normal person'?

I'll remember that the next time I hear some idiot whining about unfixed potholes on a road with no money in its budget because some dick filled out his tax forms "creatively" and the IRS didn't have the staff to go after him. Or I'm listening to some asshole whining that he hates the IRS so much because every time he calls with a simple question the hold time is four hours.


If only the Federal Government did those things. Pot hole filling is generally a local issue paid for with local taxes. State-county-local taxes. Sure the federal government uses funds to repair or expand interstate highways but that money is collected through gas taxes, not income taxes. Please try again.

Drive a hybrid or electric car? Are you cheating the government just like the waitress you "forgets" to report some of her tips?
 
2014-02-06 10:24:11 AM  

Billy Bathsalt: 10% tax on everything you buy targets those of us who spend every penny they get on necessities.  The people who spend 1% of their money and stuff the rest under the mattress (in the Cayman Islands) are smiling even more than usual.


Then don't tax food and aspirin..

Do you really think rich people take their money and stuff it in their mattress on their 80 foot sailboats so they don't have to pay tax on money.  "Cheers, Jeeves.  Check out all this stuff I could have purchased but didnt, because I didnt want to pay tax.  After I die, I want my money burned, so my heirs dont have to pay tax either, unlike those silly commoners buying tax loaded X-Boxen"
 
2014-02-06 10:25:56 AM  

2KanZam: dragonchild: Serious Black: Back in 2009, I bought a house. I used money from a college fund my parents set up for me to cover the down payment. My mom was listed on the account, and as a result, my parents accounted for that money on their taxes. Two years later, I got a letter from the IRS saying I owed about $8,000 in back taxes, penalties, and interest. We've now supplied them with enough corroborating evidence to kill a rhino. At various points, they said I owed penalties and interest even though they said I didn't owe the actual taxes that triggered the penalties and interest in the first place. They still have not sent me a letter definitively stating my bill is zero.

How so?  Your mother withdrew $8k from a joint account basically as a gift to you and now she wants a tax break?  Or did she try to claim mortgage tax deduction on a house she doesn't own?  What exactly was she trying to do here?  And no, just throwing enough paper to "kill a rhino" doesn't exonerate you for shiat, although it seems they were gracious enough to give up.

I'm really not buying your side of the story, here.


I was trying to figure that out too.  With nothing more than his statement, sounds like someone was cheating on their taxes.


I *think* he was saying that the account withdrawal was taxable, and since the mother's name was also on the account the parents reported the taxable amount on their joint filing, but the IRS' position was that it should have been on the son's instead (or also?), so the paperwork the family submitted was to show that the tax had already been paid. Or something.
 
2014-02-06 10:28:31 AM  

dragonchild: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: An underfunded IRS is a good thing for everyone.

jso2897: From the point of view of an antisocial psychopath, yes. A normal person, not so much.

dantheman195: Could you explain how this is bad for a 'normal person'?

Because I pay my goddamn motherfarking taxes.  I don't play games so I've never once had a problem with the IRS.
If the IRS lacks the resources to catch the cheaters, that either causes tax rates to go up  to compensate or destabilizes government and right now we're staring down both barrels.

You want the IRS to be underfunded, odds are it's because you're an "I got mine" greedy sociopathic cheater of a liar.
If you don't like our abominable tax code, take your grievances to the guys that write terrible bills.  The IRS are the poor slobs whose duty is to make Congress' gobbledegook work.


. . . Then again, I suppose an honest responsible citizen is the furthest thing from a "normal person" in this country these days, no never farkin' mind.


Maybe the government should spend less money?

Less coming in, spend less money, easy as that.

That is what I would do with my own finances if I made less money. Why can't the government do it as well?

Why send the brown shirts after a waitress or bar tender who forgets to claim all of their tips or the old lady who sold some items at a garage sale?
 
2014-02-06 10:28:35 AM  
Sad: IRS too underfunded to "persecute conservatives"

Much sadder: Schools so underfunded that we have conservatives.

"Why yes, I feel it's my duty to vote against my self-interest and personal freedoms time after time, because jesus!"  (*sound of giant multinational corporations snickering from the bushes*)
 
2014-02-06 10:49:20 AM  

Speef: Sad: IRS too underfunded to "persecute conservatives"

Much sadder: Schools so underfunded that we have conservatives.

"Why yes, I feel it's my duty to vote against my self-interest and personal freedoms time after time, because jesus!"  (*sound of giant multinational corporations snickering from the bushes*)


Wait you actually believe one party has your best interests at heart and the other one does not? Trying not to laugh harder lol
 
2014-02-06 10:51:41 AM  

dantheman195: Maybe the government should spend less money?


What the fark does that have to do with the IRS' job?  Their staffing needs aren't related to government spending; it's tied to cheaters and complexity of legislation they didn't write, and in the former regard alone America would turn into Greece in a heartbeat if it wasn't for the IRS.
 
2014-02-06 11:00:48 AM  

dragonchild: dantheman195: Maybe the government should spend less money?

What the fark does that have to do with the IRS' job?  Their staffing needs aren't related to government spending; it's tied to cheaters and complexity of legislation they didn't write, and in the former regard alone America would turn into Greece in a heartbeat if it wasn't for the IRS.


I don't think so, you are giving the federal government too much credit. The Federal Government does not fill pot holes, put out fires, prosecute petty thieves, fund schools, police the streets, pick up garbage every week, your local/county/state government does that. And they raise money through income taxes, sales taxes, property/real estate taxes, and so forth. When the federal government was shut down, a majority of people did not notice, unless you wanted to go to a federal monument and the feds hired extra security to keep the common folk out..........
 
2014-02-06 11:03:52 AM  

dantheman195: Maybe the government should spend less money?

Less coming in, spend less money, easy as that.

That is what I would do with my own finances if I made less money. Why can't the government do it as well?

Why send the brown shirts after a waitress or bar tender who forgets to claim all of their tips or the old lady who sold some items at a garage sale?


Okay.  You owe rent, utilities, medical bills, and loans.  You have (voluntarily) only taken in enough income to pay for three of them.  Which are you going to choose to be delinquent on?  This is "easy as that", remember.
 
2014-02-06 11:08:28 AM  
Don't you mean their ability to investigate groups that are clearly political but set up as non-profits?

Because that's what these Tea Party groups are.
 
2014-02-06 11:19:25 AM  

dantheman195: jso2897: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: An underfunded IRS is a good thing for everyone.

From the point of view of an antisocial psychopath, yes. A normal person, not so much.

Those founding fathers of ours were a bunch of antisocial psychopaths as well


They were white slavers too. Really, an fine bunch of fellows.
 
2014-02-06 11:24:20 AM  

Serious Black: Back in 2009, I bought a house. I used money from a college fund my parents set up for me to cover the down payment. My mom was listed on the account, and as a result, my parents accounted for that money on their taxes. Two years later, I got a letter from the IRS saying I owed about $8,000 in back taxes, penalties, and interest. We've now supplied them with enough corroborating evidence to kill a rhino. At various points, they said I owed penalties and interest even though they said I didn't owe the actual taxes that triggered the penalties and interest in the first place. They still have not sent me a letter definitively stating my bill is zero.


Don't feel bad, I hear it's a common crime most people don't even realize they've committed...

i.imgur.com
 
2014-02-06 11:26:29 AM  

Pangea: Don't you mean their ability to investigate groups that are clearly political but set up as non-profits?

Because that's what these Tea Party groups are.


NJEA is political and set up as a non profit as well. They spend millions on TV ads bashing Gov. Christie, they donate millions into the campaigns of democrats. But they are a non-profit political organization. Why can't the Tea Party do the same?
 
2014-02-06 11:27:20 AM  

dragonchild: dantheman195: Maybe the government should spend less money?

What the fark does that have to do with the IRS' job?  Their staffing needs aren't related to government spending; it's tied to cheaters and complexity of legislation they didn't write, and in the former regard alone America would turn into Greece in a heartbeat if it wasn't for the IRS.


No this is a false choice.  You only give two options.  Greece, or 75000 pages of IRS regulations.

If tax compliance were an industry, it would be one of the largest in the United States. „„
To consume 7.6 billion hours, the "tax industry" requires the equivalent of 3.8 million 
full-time workers.


Get rid of it.  Tax everyone the same.  Omit taxing basic necessities.  Poor people still pay 0 tax.  Everyone else pays an easy to remember percentage like 10%.

People that actually generate income at tax time, they might be upset.  That's understandable.  Your jobless brother in law gets upset when you kick him out after 3 years too.
 
2014-02-06 11:27:46 AM  

Nutsac_Jim: Why not just tax everything 10%. For people who cry about po folks, they are already getting hand outs and personal deductionsjso2897: dantheman195: jso2897: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: An underfunded IRS is a good thing for everyone.

From the point of view of an antisocial psychopath, yes. A normal person, not so much.

Could you explain how this is bad for a 'normal person'?

Thank you

Yes: A normal person values his own survival.
For modern man to exist as modern man, civilization is necessary.
For civilization to exist, government is necessary.
For government to exist, taxes must be levied and collected.
For that to happen, the IRS, or something like it, is necessary.
Therefore, and intelligent person realizes that such an institution is necessary to his survival as a modern, civilized man.
Normal people value their own survival, and do not regard things that are necessary to their own survival as "bad".

You are confusing "dude wants to get rid of the IRS" with "Schmuck doesn't want to pay taxes".



No. I am not. I said, and I quote, "For that to happen, the IRS, OR SOMETHING LIKE IT, is necessary".
And that, whether you like it or not, is true. If you want to replace it with something different, with a different name, fine - but you would still have to fund whatever it is. Simply defunding the tax collection infrastructure we have now does no good, and, over time, increasing harm.
 
2014-02-06 11:32:47 AM  

Fast Moon: dantheman195: Maybe the government should spend less money?

Less coming in, spend less money, easy as that.

That is what I would do with my own finances if I made less money. Why can't the government do it as well?

Why send the brown shirts after a waitress or bar tender who forgets to claim all of their tips or the old lady who sold some items at a garage sale?

Okay.  You owe rent, utilities, medical bills, and loans.  You have (voluntarily) only taken in enough income to pay for three of them.  Which are you going to choose to be delinquent on?  This is "easy as that", remember.


Get fewer loans.  Buy fewer 55 inch LED TVs.  Why did you buy them on credit anyway.   It doesn't matter if the new one is on sale.   This has a added benefit of lowering your power bill.   99.9% of people have this problem, not the "I got butt cancer and eyeball cancer the same weekend and have too many bills"
 
2014-02-06 11:33:31 AM  

Nutsac_Jim: Billy Bathsalt: 10% tax on everything you buy targets those of us who spend every penny they get on necessities.  The people who spend 1% of their money and stuff the rest under the mattress (in the Cayman Islands) are smiling even more than usual.

Then don't tax food and aspirin..

Do you really think rich people take their money and stuff it in their mattress on their 80 foot sailboats so they don't have to pay tax on money.  "Cheers, Jeeves.  Check out all this stuff I could have purchased but didnt, because I didnt want to pay tax.  After I die, I want my money burned, so my heirs dont have to pay tax either, unlike those silly commoners buying tax loaded X-Boxen"


Pay the lobbyists to rewrite that portion of the tax code that serves you and yours and have said lobbyists place proposed changes into hands of your lavishly collared lapdog of a Representative.  Utilize the, now, legal loophole to set up shell corp. in some untaxed (preferably) island paradise that also sports absolute confidentiality laws for financial entities, and use that shell to establish others in similarly `unencumbered' jurisdictions (with `boards and stockholders' - on paper - while retaining, through confidential contract, full ownership).  What should have been paid in taxes to service the Republic is, instead, earning interest, `somewhere', and being pocketed by the `cheat'

Paying for politicians who will carry out one's desire to promote more inefficiency in government in order to bootstrap the `gubbmint bad' mantra into the minds of the rubes, all the while further honing the productivity of bribery/graft/reregulation within that government to serve only oneself?  The more one amasses in wealth, the more that person relies on the Risk-Off that accrues to doing so in this Republic - parked between two oceans and surrounded by The Republic's missile subs.  It's not like their sons or daughters will be out their spilling blood the next time push comes to shove.

Somalia is the next big thing, don't you know
 
2014-02-06 11:37:17 AM  
I visited the IRS building inn Kansas City a few years ago. It was a veritable monument to efficiency and competence. Every square foot was laid out to maximize workflow and ensure the government got every last cent it was sent by taxpayers.

It really does go to prove that the government turns into a group of geniuses when it comes to things that get them money. Of course, when it comes to actually serving you, as they should be doing, they're terrible at it.
 
2014-02-06 11:37:20 AM  

dantheman195: I don't think so, you are giving the federal government too much credit.


I'm giving the federal government no credit at all.  They could spend the entire budget on cotton candy and the only way the IRS has anything to do with that is their own operating budget.  They don't decide how the money's spent; it's just their job to collect it.  Projecting your hatred of federal spending on the IRS is about as dumb as a person can possibly get.

Nutsac_Jim: No this is a false choice. You only give two options. Greece, or 75000 pages of IRS regulations.


Are you referring to the tax code, which the IRS has absolutely nothing to do with, or the regulations the IRS basically needs to write to make sense of the madness authored by the sociopaths you voted for?
Sure, simplifying the tax code would result in a smaller IRS.  But fixing the tax code isn't the IRS' job -- beyond making it something resembling functional, anyway.  They don't write legislation; Congress does.  And shrinking the IRS before simplifying the tax code is a great way to flirt with disaster.

Ugh, idiots like this are why America needs the IRS.  This country just wouldn't run with people like this making their own decisions about how to pay their taxes.
 
2014-02-06 11:47:20 AM  

dragonchild: Serious Black: Back in 2009, I bought a house. I used money from a college fund my parents set up for me to cover the down payment. My mom was listed on the account, and as a result, my parents accounted for that money on their taxes. Two years later, I got a letter from the IRS saying I owed about $8,000 in back taxes, penalties, and interest. We've now supplied them with enough corroborating evidence to kill a rhino. At various points, they said I owed penalties and interest even though they said I didn't owe the actual taxes that triggered the penalties and interest in the first place. They still have not sent me a letter definitively stating my bill is zero.

How so?  Your mother withdrew $8k from a joint account basically as a gift to you and now she wants a tax break?  Or did she try to claim mortgage tax deduction on a house she doesn't own?  What exactly was she trying to do here?  And no, just throwing enough paper to "kill a rhino" doesn't exonerate you for shiat, although it seems they were gracious enough to give up.

I'm really not buying your side of the story, here.


Parents can give an untaxed gift to their children below a certain threshold. That means he wouldn't have to pay tax on it as income. I remembered the number as being any amount under $10,000, but $8,000 is definitely below the threshold.

How many annual exclusions are available?
The annual exclusion applies to gifts to each donee. In other words, if you give each of your children $11,000 in 2002-2005, $12,000 in 2006-2008, $13,000 in 2009-2012 and $14,000 on or after January 1, 2013, the annual exclusion applies to each gift.

http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-Businesses-&-Self-Employed/Whats -N ew-Estate-and-Gift-Tax
 
2014-02-06 11:52:15 AM  
Doesn't matter how much the IRS collects. They just print what they need to make up any shortfall and then some. Insanity!
 
2014-02-06 11:59:17 AM  
In this thread, someone is arguing for a flat consumption tax as a sole tax with no others.

And I think only one person called him on it.

This leaves me sad.
 
2014-02-06 12:01:42 PM  

dantheman195: Pangea: Don't you mean their ability to investigate groups that are clearly political but set up as non-profits?

Because that's what these Tea Party groups are.

NJEA is political and set up as a non profit as well. They spend millions on TV ads bashing Gov. Christie, they donate millions into the campaigns of democrats. But they are a non-profit political organization. Why can't the Tea Party do the same?


I don't have enough specific citations to speak intelligently, but it's along the lines of this.

The organization is set up as a non-profit and is political in nature, which is not a problem in and of itself.

The problem is that the people donating to the group are declaring the money as tax-deductible on their taxes because it's going to a non-profit. They also want to not have their identities revealed because of who they're supporting. Something about the nature of the 403(b) non-profit status doesn't allow the organization to hide the names of the specific donors.

That's when the groups started making the argument that it was politically motivated in order to out the donor's identities. No such move was made to suppress the identities of donors to NJEA.
 
2014-02-06 12:06:08 PM  

Nutsac_Jim: dragonchild: dantheman195: Maybe the government should spend less money?

What the fark does that have to do with the IRS' job?  Their staffing needs aren't related to government spending; it's tied to cheaters and complexity of legislation they didn't write, and in the former regard alone America would turn into Greece in a heartbeat if it wasn't for the IRS.

No this is a false choice.  You only give two options.  Greece, or 75000 pages of IRS regulations.

If tax compliance were an industry, it would be one of the largest in the United States. „„
To consume 7.6 billion hours, the "tax industry" requires the equivalent of 3.8 million
full-time workers.

Get rid of it.  Tax everyone the same.  Omit taxing basic necessities.  Poor people still pay 0 tax.  Everyone else pays an easy to remember percentage like 10%.

People that actually generate income at tax time, they might be upset.  That's understandable.  Your jobless brother in law gets upset when you kick him out after 3 years too.


The cost of compliance is only half of the danger in the current tax code.

The IRS is charged with interpreting the law.  You don't have to read very far into that code to find conflicts.  We all know that whoever interprets the law is the true law giver.

Coupled with that is the IRS' implicit permission to treat those it views as tax cheats as being guilty until proven innocent and you have an opportunity for mischief.  Nixon is roundly criticized, and rightly so, for his attempted use of the IRS to do mischief to what he thought of as his polltical opponents.  The frightening aspect of that is not that Nixon sought to do evil.  The frightening aspect is that, had he found a compliant IRS manager, he could easily have gotten away with it.  With a simple, flat tax code, you not only reduce the cost of compliance; you not only get rid of government manipulation of individual behavior; you remove at least that temptation to mischief by government.

Consider:  if we had a simple, consumption based tax, there would be no possibility of persecution of either Tea Party or Moveon.org because no taxing authority would have an interest in their activity unless they were selling T-shirts.  We wouldn't have endless court cases about tax-exempt status.
 
2014-02-06 12:16:54 PM  

Summercat: In this thread, someone is arguing for a flat consumption tax as a sole tax with no others.

And I think only one person called him on it.

This leaves me sad.


We currently have a federal income tax and FICA tax for individuals.  For corporations, there are myriad other taxes.

At the state level, many have an income tax, sales tax, and (usually) a property tax.

At county and municipal levels, there are income, property, and sales taxes.

And those are just the most visible.  Couple in the fees for virtually every activity in which a normal person engages, fuel taxes, and so on and the tax system is not only incomprehensible and expensive for consumer compliance, the various taxing authorities spend a fortune just administering it.

The fact that you feel that calling someone out for suggesting a single flat tax is the correct thing to do is terribly sad.

Were our government a charity, it would be drummed out of business for consuming so much of its revenue in administration and having such a small percentage actually engaging in the work of the charity.
 
2014-02-06 12:20:18 PM  

Epic Fap Session: The RNC's new slogan should be, "Always the victim."


For some reason, the adage "If your'e explaining, you're losing" always seems to benefit Republicans. It's as if they have a monopoly on lying in ways media and viewers are willing to accept without question.
 
2014-02-06 12:21:17 PM  

Summercat: In this thread, someone is arguing for a flat consumption tax as a sole tax with no others.

And I think only one person called him on it.

This leaves me sad.


Not everybody wants to confront the crazy homeless guy whose beating off at the bus station either.

It's an apt comparison.
 
2014-02-06 12:24:30 PM  
Serious Black:Back in 2009, I bought a house. I used money from a college fund my parents set up for me to cover the down payment. My mom was listed on the account, and as a result, my parents accounted for that money on their taxes. Two years later, I got a letter from the IRS saying I owed about $8,000 in back taxes, penalties, and interest. We've now supplied them with enough corroborating evidence to kill a rhino. At various points, they said I owed penalties and interest even though they said I didn't owe the actual taxes that triggered the penalties and interest in the first place. They still have not sent me a letter definitively stating my bill is zero.

Probably because they're too underfunded to assign anyone for long enough to figure out what's really going on. Overextending staff leads to confusion in any workplace - but in this case, that confusion can harm people. All the more reason the IRS needs more agents.
 
2014-02-06 12:25:11 PM  
So does this mean they're  going to leave environmental groups alone as well? You know, since they've been  getting harrased by the IRS since before the Tea Party ever even existed (while it's members were still arguing for unlimited government power under "their guy")
 
2014-02-06 12:27:05 PM  

Summercat: In this thread, someone is arguing for a flat consumption tax as a sole tax with no others.

And I think only one person called him on it.

This leaves me sad.


I would like to believe it is because most people have figured out how unfairly burdensome on the middle class that would be.

Personally I would like to see a wealth tax replace some or all income tax, but I recognize there are so many difficulties to that, that it would be unworkable.
 
2014-02-06 12:27:21 PM  
American society rewards those with money who break the rules and persecutes those without money who do the same.  Whether by affluenza, LIBOR/mortgage games, or exoneration from the rules directly, those with money are being broadcast as being above the system.  Meanwhile we get situations like Travion Blount in Virginia, mandatory minimum sentencing, and occasionally corrupt judges like Mark Ciavarella from Pennsylvania who ruin lives in exchange for bribes.  Unfortunately people in the United States seem to tolerate corruption as long it comes from "one of their own" and think one day they might benefit from it.  Until the leadership sets an example to follow instead of an example to revile look for this to continue.
 
2014-02-06 12:31:52 PM  

Nutsac_Jim: Get rid of it. Tax everyone the same. Omit taxing basic necessities. Poor people still pay 0 tax. Everyone else pays an easy to remember percentage like 10%.

People that actually generate income at tax time, they might be upset. That's understandable. Your jobless brother in law gets upset when you kick him out after 3 years too.


I figured somebody would hint around at a flat tax. Putting the "it f*cks the poor" argument aside a minute...

10% wouldn't meet budget shortfalls, but increase them. You're not a fiscal conservative if you don't believe in using revenue to pay debts. Savings through spending cuts means dick if you can't pay the already outstanding accounts.

Also good luck convincing the people whom profit from write-offs and tax shelters to let those be closed. The flat tax argument argues for very rigorous enforcement, and probably reintroductions of tariffs that could violate existing free trade agreements. You'd need the IRS still to go after the tax cheats hiding their cash off-shore to avoid the 10% rate (And yes, you still would have people trying to avoid even paying that much).

Last before there was progressive income taxation, the federal government taxed all kinds of things, and could go back to doing so again. Nothing about a flat tax prohibits other taxes from being adopted.
 
2014-02-06 12:36:41 PM  

dragonchild: dantheman195: I don't think so, you are giving the federal government too much credit.

I'm giving the federal government no credit at all.  They could spend the entire budget on cotton candy and the only way the IRS has anything to do with that is their own operating budget.  They don't decide how the money's spent; it's just their job to collect it.  Projecting your hatred of federal spending on the IRS is about as dumb as a person can possibly get.

Nutsac_Jim: No this is a false choice. You only give two options. Greece, or 75000 pages of IRS regulations.

Are you referring to the tax code, which the IRS has absolutely nothing to do with, or the regulations the IRS basically needs to write to make sense of the madness authored by the sociopaths you voted for?
Sure, simplifying the tax code would result in a smaller IRS.  But fixing the tax code isn't the IRS' job -- beyond making it something resembling functional, anyway.  They don't write legislation; Congress does.  And shrinking the IRS before simplifying the tax code is a great way to flirt with disaster.

Ugh, idiots like this are why America needs the IRS.  This country just wouldn't run with people like this making their own decisions about how to pay their taxes.


Nobody is making the argument that we just need to put stop payments on IRS workers paychecks and that's it.

When they refer to 'get rid of the IRS', they mean the current scheme of 75000 pages of regulations.  Nobody thinks IRS accountants dreamed up the regulations.

At best, you have a few crackpots hoping to not allocate funds to the new healthcare regulation enforcement team.   These are like Jesse Ventura supporters, and can safely be ignored as crackpots.


A confusing tax code creates jobs.  It creates jobs enforcing it.  It creates 1000x as many jobs trying to help citizens follow it at tax time.

Making a flat tax or better yet, a sales tax would eliminate the need for 98% of these jobs.  Expect heavy lobbyist action on any bill that makes April 15 just another day on the calendar.
 
2014-02-06 12:36:54 PM  
Wasn't the IRS shown to be targeting liberal groups as well?
 
2014-02-06 12:39:17 PM  

Fireproof: Wasn't the IRS shown to be targeting liberal groups as well?


SHHHHHH!!!! That's not your line!!! That's not even in the script!
 
2014-02-06 12:56:22 PM  

dantheman195: If only the Federal Government did those things. Pot hole filling is generally a local issue paid for with local taxes. State-county-local taxes. Sure the federal government uses funds to repair or expand interstate highways but that money is collected through gas taxes, not income taxes. Please try again.

Drive a hybrid or electric car? Are you cheating the government just like the waitress you "forgets" to report some of her tips?


Not that it's shocking or anything, but you have no idea what you're talking about.
 
2014-02-06 01:34:31 PM  

Fast Moon: dragonchild: Because I pay my goddamn motherfarking taxes.  I don't play games so I've never once had a problem with the IRS.
If the IRS lacks the resources to catch the cheaters, that either causes tax rates to go up  to compensate or destabilizes government and right now we're staring down both barrels.

You want the IRS to be underfunded, odds are it's because you're an "I got mine" greedy sociopathic cheater of a liar.
If you don't like our abominable tax code, take your grievances to the guys that write terrible bills.  The IRS are the poor slobs whose duty is to make Congress' gobbledegook work.

You don't seem to get it.  Taxes are used to pay for  other people's stuff.  The government steals money from me to repair roads I never use, teach children who aren't mine, put out fires at buildings I don't own, and prosecute criminals who didn't do anything to me.  I don't owe anything to this society I'm a part of, since when I was on welfare, did anyone help me?  No!  If I can't notice how much I rely on our infrastructure, that means I shouldn't be obligated to pay for it.

You just don't understand the basic, primal, visceral fear of spending money that may be used to benefit  other people.


Ehh, more like the government steals my money to pay for a 57" plasma that a lazy person person on SSI "needs," or to allow the cheapskate that "claims" injuries to not work, or (my personal fave), to allow a person working at a paper factory sit at home because he's allergic to something used in the paper. I have no issues with paying for emergencies with my taxes... after all, my property tax and sales tax takes care of it. However, Federal Income tax is primarily going to three main things: Health Insurance (Medicaid), Social Security (which includes SSI), and the military.

www.cbpp.org
 
2014-02-06 01:56:59 PM  

Enigmamf: Summercat: In this thread, someone is arguing for a flat consumption tax as a sole tax with no others.

And I think only one person called him on it.

This leaves me sad.

I would like to believe it is because most people have figured out how unfairly burdensome on the middle class that would be.

 

One guy lives in a subdivision with 99 others.  100% of all the fire truck visits went to  99% of the houses with smokers living in them.
99.5% of the robbings, beatings, and thefts occured in the 99% of the houses.  A single call during the year to the police came from the 1 house, which was simply a car from the party next door was blocking the driveway.

When it came down to paying the HOA bills the next year, the 1 guy says, 'Hey, my house is 1% of the houses here, but here is my 10% of the costs for the trash removal and the police and fire protection contracts.'

Then some asshole pipes in and says "Dude, do you know how unfairly burdensome you are to the rest of us?"
 
2014-02-06 02:03:01 PM  

verbaltoxin: Nutsac_Jim: Get rid of it. Tax everyone the same. Omit taxing basic necessities. Poor people still pay 0 tax. Everyone else pays an easy to remember percentage like 10%.

People that actually generate income at tax time, they might be upset. That's understandable. Your jobless brother in law gets upset when you kick him out after 3 years too.

I figured somebody would hint around at a flat tax. Putting the "it f*cks the poor" argument aside a minute...

10% wouldn't meet budget shortfalls, but increase them. You're not a fiscal conservative if you don't believe in using revenue to pay debts. Savings through spending cuts means dick if you can't pay the already outstanding accounts.


Yes,  Paying 0% income tax really farks the poor.

Congratulations on ignoring the concept of everyone pays an equal prorated share (except for those poor that get farked over by paying 0...and all that) and just
zeroing right in that a number such as 10% doesn't pay off current expenses.   You are right. changing that number to 14% would TOTALLY change things.
 
2014-02-06 02:06:09 PM  

verbaltoxin: You'd need the IRS still to go after the tax cheats hiding their cash off-shore to avoid the 10% rate


Yeah, because that's what people do, is avoid a 10% tax by moving it over where it is taxed at 21%.

That's how the rich get rich.
 
2014-02-06 02:07:57 PM  

EyeballKid: Fireproof: Wasn't the IRS shown to be targeting liberal groups as well?

SHHHHHH!!!! That's not your line!!! That's not even in the script!


This is like saying that Driving While Black doesn't exist,  because George Zimmerman got pulled over for speeding.
 
2014-02-06 02:10:50 PM  

Epic Fap Session: Summercat: In this thread, someone is arguing for a flat consumption tax as a sole tax with no others.

And I think only one person called him on it.

This leaves me sad.

Not everybody wants to confront the crazy homeless guy whose beating off at the bus station either.

It's an apt comparison.


...true. I learned that the hard way once. The guy is a bit on the potato side, too.

Of course he'll crow "HE HAS NO REAL ARGUMENTS HE IS AVOIDING ME", but there's only so much to do against idiots, 9-11 Truthers, Birthers, and Moon Landing Hoaxers.

Five bucks says the guy also supports returning to a gold-backed currency :v
 
2014-02-06 02:43:11 PM  

dragonchild: Serious Black: Back in 2009, I bought a house. I used money from a college fund my parents set up for me to cover the down payment. My mom was listed on the account, and as a result, my parents accounted for that money on their taxes. Two years later, I got a letter from the IRS saying I owed about $8,000 in back taxes, penalties, and interest. We've now supplied them with enough corroborating evidence to kill a rhino. At various points, they said I owed penalties and interest even though they said I didn't owe the actual taxes that triggered the penalties and interest in the first place. They still have not sent me a letter definitively stating my bill is zero.

How so?  Your mother withdrew $8k from a joint account basically as a gift to you and now she wants a tax break?  Or did she try to claim mortgage tax deduction on a house she doesn't own?  What exactly was she trying to do here?  And no, just throwing enough paper to "kill a rhino" doesn't exonerate you for shiat, although it seems they were gracious enough to give up.

I'm really not buying your side of the story, here.


apoptotic: 2KanZam: dragonchild: Serious Black: Back in 2009, I bought a house. I used money from a college fund my parents set up for me to cover the down payment. My mom was listed on the account, and as a result, my parents accounted for that money on their taxes. Two years later, I got a letter from the IRS saying I owed about $8,000 in back taxes, penalties, and interest. We've now supplied them with enough corroborating evidence to kill a rhino. At various points, they said I owed penalties and interest even though they said I didn't owe the actual taxes that triggered the penalties and interest in the first place. They still have not sent me a letter definitively stating my bill is zero.

How so?  Your mother withdrew $8k from a joint account basically as a gift to you and now she wants a tax break?  Or did she try to claim mortgage tax deduction on a house she doesn't own?  What exactly was she trying to do here?  And no, just throwing enough paper to "kill a rhino" doesn't exonerate you for shiat, although it seems they were gracious enough to give up.

I'm really not buying your side of the story, here.


I was trying to figure that out too.  With nothing more than his statement, sounds like someone was cheating on their taxes.

I *think* he was saying that the account withdrawal was taxable, and since the mother's name was also on the account the parents reported the taxable amount on their joint filing, but the IRS' position was that it should have been on the son's instead (or also?), so the paperwork the family submitted was to show that the tax had already been paid. Or something.


This is exactly correct. They withdrew money, added that capital gains income to their tax return, and paid taxes on the amount withdrawn.

Enigmamf: Probably because they're too underfunded to assign anyone for long enough to figure out what's really going on. Overextending staff leads to confusion in any workplace - but in this case, that confusion can harm people. All the more reason the IRS needs more agents.


Assuming we can't make the tax code drastically simpler to reduce the need, I 100% agree that the IRS is underfunded and needs more agents.
 
2014-02-06 02:56:02 PM  

dantheman195: Pangea: Don't you mean their ability to investigate groups that are clearly political but set up as non-profits?

Because that's what these Tea Party groups are.

NJEA is political and set up as a non profit as well. They spend millions on TV ads bashing Gov. Christie, they donate millions into the campaigns of democrats. But they are a non-profit political organization. Why can't the Tea Party do the same?


They can, as soon as they start paying taxes and don't conceal the names of members/donors.
 
2014-02-06 04:04:02 PM  
Isn't this the same IRS that just released $62,500,000 in bonuses?

The e-file system seems to be working just fine, i already got my return.
 
2014-02-06 04:15:01 PM  
There are a lot sovereign citizens in this thread.
 
2014-02-06 04:36:32 PM  

jaybeezey: Isn't this the same IRS that just released $62,500,000 in bonuses?

The e-file system seems to be working just fine, i already got my return.


After reading your post, I went and looked, and I have mine too! Thanks!
 
2014-02-06 04:57:26 PM  

Fast Moon: dragonchild: Because I pay my goddamn motherfarking taxes.  I don't play games so I've never once had a problem with the IRS.
If the IRS lacks the resources to catch the cheaters, that either causes tax rates to go up  to compensate or destabilizes government and right now we're staring down both barrels.

You want the IRS to be underfunded, odds are it's because you're an "I got mine" greedy sociopathic cheater of a liar.
If you don't like our abominable tax code, take your grievances to the guys that write terrible bills.  The IRS are the poor slobs whose duty is to make Congress' gobbledegook work.

You don't seem to get it.  Taxes are used to pay for  other people's stuff.  The government steals money from me to repair roads I never use, teach children who aren't mine, put out fires at buildings I don't own, and prosecute criminals who didn't do anything to me.   I don't owe anything to this society I'm a part of, since when I was on welfare, did anyone help me?  No!  If I can't notice how much I rely on our infrastructure, that means I shouldn't be obligated to pay for it.

You just don't understand the basic, primal, visceral fear of spending money that may be used to benefit  other people.


So let me get this straight... you were on welfare... a government program that gives money to people below the poverty line... and your upset you have to pay taxes to give money to other people. The hypocracy is palpable.
 
2014-02-06 05:02:28 PM  

The_Hairy_Gooch: Fast Moon: dragonchild: Because I pay my goddamn motherfarking taxes.  I don't play games so I've never once had a problem with the IRS.
If the IRS lacks the resources to catch the cheaters, that either causes tax rates to go up  to compensate or destabilizes government and right now we're staring down both barrels.

You want the IRS to be underfunded, odds are it's because you're an "I got mine" greedy sociopathic cheater of a liar.
If you don't like our abominable tax code, take your grievances to the guys that write terrible bills.  The IRS are the poor slobs whose duty is to make Congress' gobbledegook work.

You don't seem to get it.  Taxes are used to pay for  other people's stuff.  The government steals money from me to repair roads I never use, teach children who aren't mine, put out fires at buildings I don't own, and prosecute criminals who didn't do anything to me.   I don't owe anything to this society I'm a part of, since when I was on welfare, did anyone help me?  No!  If I can't notice how much I rely on our infrastructure, that means I shouldn't be obligated to pay for it.

You just don't understand the basic, primal, visceral fear of spending money that may be used to benefit  other people.

So let me get this straight... you were on welfare... a government program that gives money to people below the poverty line... and your upset you have to pay taxes to give money to other people. The hypocracy is palpable.


It's "hypocrisy", and I think he was being sarcastic ;)
 
2014-02-06 05:42:55 PM  

dantheman195: jso2897: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: An underfunded IRS is a good thing for everyone.

From the point of view of an antisocial psychopath, yes. A normal person, not so much.

Could you explain how this is bad for a 'normal person'?

Thank you


By 'normal' they mean liberal, of course.
/They went to college.
 
2014-02-06 05:49:16 PM  

Uzzah: dantheman195: jso2897: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: An underfunded IRS is a good thing for everyone.

From the point of view of an antisocial psychopath, yes. A normal person, not so much.

Could you explain how this is bad for a 'normal person'?

Left to their own devices, many people will cheat on their taxes (either underpaying what they owe, or claiming refunds that they are not entitled to). People who cheat on their taxes deprive the government of revenue to fund important services and cause honest taxpayers to shoulder a bigger burden. Having an agency that vigorously enforces tax obligations against those who cheat is a positive thing for the honest taxpayer.

/bracing for the incoming derpstorm...


... and if the administration, whoever they may be, uses the IRS to hassle people that threaten its power instead of chasing down people who steal, so what; the money's still green.
 
2014-02-06 06:00:57 PM  

apoptotic: 2KanZam: dragonchild: Serious Black: Back in 2009, I bought a house. I used money from a college fund my parents set up for me to cover the down payment. My mom was listed on the account, and as a result, my parents accounted for that money on their taxes. Two years later, I got a letter from the IRS saying I owed about $8,000 in back taxes, penalties, and interest. We've now supplied them with enough corroborating evidence to kill a rhino. At various points, they said I owed penalties and interest even though they said I didn't owe the actual taxes that triggered the penalties and interest in the first place. They still have not sent me a letter definitively stating my bill is zero.

How so?  Your mother withdrew $8k from a joint account basically as a gift to you and now she wants a tax break?  Or did she try to claim mortgage tax deduction on a house she doesn't own?  What exactly was she trying to do here?  And no, just throwing enough paper to "kill a rhino" doesn't exonerate you for shiat, although it seems they were gracious enough to give up.

I'm really not buying your side of the story, here.


I was trying to figure that out too.  With nothing more than his statement, sounds like someone was cheating on their taxes.

I *think* he was saying that the account withdrawal was taxable, and since the mother's name was also on the account the parents reported the taxable amount on their joint filing, but the IRS' position was that it should have been on the son's instead (or also?), so the paperwork the family submitted was to show that the tax had already been paid. Or something.


Maybe he doesn't understand why he's in trouble with the IRS, which is precisely why they are so feared.
 
2014-02-06 06:03:05 PM  

Speef: Sad: IRS too underfunded to "persecute conservatives"

Much sadder: Schools so underfunded that we have conservatives.

"Why yes, I feel it's my duty to vote against my self-interest and personal freedoms time after time, because I don't want to look racist."

 
2014-02-06 06:05:13 PM  

Pangea: Don't you mean their ability to investigate groups that are clearly political but set up as non-profits?

Because that's what these Tea Party groups are.


Code Pink isn't, though. Or OFA.
 
2014-02-06 06:09:28 PM  

dragonchild: dantheman195: I don't think so, you are giving the federal government too much credit.

I'm giving the federal government no credit at all.  They could spend the entire budget on cotton candy and the only way the IRS has anything to do with that is their own operating budget.  They don't decide how the money's spent; it's just their job to collect it.  Projecting your hatred of federal spending on the IRS is about as dumb as a person can possibly get.

Nutsac_Jim: No this is a false choice. You only give two options. Greece, or 75000 pages of IRS regulations.

Are you referring to the tax code, which the IRS has absolutely nothing to do with, or the regulations the IRS basically needs to write to make sense of the madness authored by the sociopaths you voted for?
Sure, simplifying the tax code would result in a smaller IRS.  But fixing the tax code isn't the IRS' job -- beyond making it something resembling functional, anyway.  They don't write legislation; Congress does.  And shrinking the IRS before simplifying the tax code is a great way to flirt with disaster.

Ugh, idiots like this are why America needs the IRS.  This country just wouldn't run with people like this making their own decisions about how to pay their taxes.


That's the problem: all the wrong people are allowed to make their own decisions.
 
2014-02-07 12:46:18 PM  

ThighsofGlory: dantheman195: jso2897: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: An underfunded IRS is a good thing for everyone.

From the point of view of an antisocial psychopath, yes. A normal person, not so much.

Could you explain how this is bad for a 'normal person'?

Thank you

By 'normal' they mean liberal, of course.
/They went to college.


I went to college as well, I just tuned out the brain washing

Either way I still can not figure out how taxation of wages helps 'normal' people

If anything it put a large burden on working individuals to pay for non working individuals.

Who does the IRS target? Small businesses, restaurants/bar employees and anyone who works and has a business on the side.

They are easy prey
1) most likely to make mistakes (math wise)
2) most likely to under-report income or forget income (intentionally or by error)
3) most likely to take deductions that they are not entitled to, like writing off meals or vacations
4) do not have a legal team to defend themselves

Easy shake down, any IRS agent can randomly select any mom and pop business and shake them down, their is always a mistake to uncover. And can be used to make a "example out of"

So again, how does the IRS benefit 'normal' people?
 
2014-02-07 01:59:37 PM  

Mr. Right: Budget cuts mean reduced services and staffing. Meanwhile, just last week it was announced that the IRS would be paying bonuses to managers. They sound like a bank or something.


They announced incorrectly.
http://www.federalnewsradio.com/177/3555510/IRS-to-pay-employee-bonus e s-at-lower-percentage-rate

They kept part of the general employee bonuses from a pool they'd already agreed to with the union, and canceled manager ones entirely.
 
2014-02-07 04:40:18 PM  

Nutsac_Jim: A confusing tax code creates jobs.  It creates jobs enforcing it.  It creates 1000x as many jobs trying to help citizens follow it at tax time.

Making a flat tax or better yet, a sales tax would eliminate the need for 98% of these jobs.  Expect heavy lobbyist action on ...


But we were promised jerbs by all the nice guys living in D.C.
We never specified what sort of work they should pull out of their ass to magically fix unemployment.
 
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