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(Chicago Sun-Times)   Employee at Whole Foods fired for calling off work because Chicago Public Schools called a snow day and she had to stay at home and take care of her special needs child. Shockingly, the uppity hipster outrage has yet to start   (suntimes.com ) divider line
    More: Sick, CPS, whole foods, Rhiannon Broschat, River North, unexpected events, weather disasters, special needs, catastrophe theory  
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9146 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Feb 2014 at 8:18 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-02-05 10:21:32 PM  

Smackledorfer: jso2897: Nonrepeating Rotating Binary: Back in the late 80's, the company I worked for instituted a policy of "flexibility" for parents, in the name of supporting Working Families.  It quickly devolved into one massive excuse for parents to be absent at the drop of a hat and push all of their work off on the single and non-parent workers.  Within six months, there was a revolt by those of us being forced to pick up the slack as our 'family-minded' co-workers massively abused the system, and the whole thing was scrapped.

Yeah, sucks you have a kid who needs you.  But the terms of your job are not different because you're a parent.

It's really a shiatty situation, and this woman need help - but her employer isn't a charity or welfare agency - they can't deal with this, they sell groceries. By the way - where's daddy? Is she raising this child alone, and if so, why?
But if she can't really work and care for her child properly, she has to accept that and move forward.

Horseshiat.

We have high unemployment. Plenty of folks would take a part time average 20 hours jpb and accept being called in on her family days.

Where is daddy? Probably has a job too. But way to play the welfare stereotype...


I would have no problem giving her welfare - if Dad has flown the coop and left her high and dry, then society has to care for her and her kid, and I'm more than happy to pay my share. But the solution to this is not for her employer to try to cover for society failing to help her.
The idea that she must work to justify her and her child's existence, even if the kid's health problems make it impossible for her to hold down a job reliably, is the real problem here. At some point soon, we are going to have to look at the fact that worker productivity increases and market changes have put us at the point where we are going to examine the old biblical economic model. There will not be jobs for everybody again. Ever. And if we can't cure ourselves of our irrational hatred of the idea of a "welfare state", then we'd better think up another name to call it - because we are there, now.
 
2014-02-05 10:22:28 PM  

bigdog1960: bigdog1960: Illinois is full of prices. I don't know why, I had to leave.

Pricks damn auto correct


Say what you will about Illinois pricks - at least they have an ethos.
 
2014-02-05 10:27:00 PM  

baorao: Nonrepeating Rotating Binary: lordjupiter: Anyone who's ever managed large groups of hourly service employees will tell you there's always at least one that will take every single opportunity to show up late, leave early, or just not come in.  Some have kids they use as constant excuses, others have perpetual "car trouble", and so forth.  These people ALWAYS leave everyone else in a tight spot and even if they apologize they still keep doing it.

Used to work at a place where you didn't get any points until you were 10 minutes late.  Had a co-worker who was 5-9 minutes late every farking day.  Always some kind of excuse.  Alley was blocked, accident on the freeway, power went out, etc.  As I told him; "You're 5-9 minutes late every day.  Every Day.  That means you're making a choice not to be here on time.  Your excuses are bullshiat, and you need to set your alarm 15 minutes earlier."  Of course, about every 1-2 weeks something would happen to make him more than 10 minutes late and he accumulated points right up to a final notice, at which time he tried to play the "No one ever told me I could be fired for this!" card.  It didn't work.  Then he started to play the FLMA card, for vague 'medical issues', and being out for days and weeks at a time.  He still farked that up to the point of being fired.  (Even FLMA has it's limits)

In the mean time, I had moved on to a much better job.  He wanted in and I wouldn't give him a reference, but he managed to get an interview anyway.  He told them in the interview that he had been fired for absenteeism.  From pretty much every job he'd ever had.

Then was shocked!  SHOCKED I TELL YOU! That they straight up told him they weren't interested.

Yeah our time clock software rounds up the last 7 minutes of the hour. I came across several people who clocked out at 4:53 every day just because "hey free 7 minutes". Seems like such a stupid risk to take when the reviewers see the actual time even though the payroll software counts 4:53 as 5:00


It really depends on the company and the degree of abuse. Someone leaving five minutes before five isn't a major concern. The douchebags who are obviously stealing time are the major problems and they're easy to spot.
 
2014-02-05 10:27:21 PM  
FTA: She added: "With me having a son, there should be a policy instilled where working single mothers need a little bit of leniency and understanding, and I feel that just didn't happen to me."

Sorry, Obama is demanding that we close the wage gap. Not going to get there with women working even fewer hours than they already do.
 
2014-02-05 10:28:19 PM  
One would think that store manager would be glade that they didn't have to pay the hours on what will clearly be a dead day. Or is it just a cold heartless system auto-terms hourly worker for adhering to draconian attendance policies?
 
2014-02-05 10:30:38 PM  

fusillade762: Seconded. I'd also like to know why "special needs" is in quotation marks.


We don't know how special those needs are.  Maybe they weren't special at all?  Or maybe they weren't really needs, but just "special preferences".  For instance I like my iced tea without lemon -- it's special, but more of a preference than a need.
 
2014-02-05 10:31:23 PM  

overfienduglar: One would think that store manager would be glade that they didn't have to pay the hours on what will clearly be a dead day. Or is it just a cold heartless system auto-terms hourly worker for adhering to draconian attendance policies?


Obviously you've never worked retail food during a snow storm. Doesn't matter if there is 15 farking feet of snow and the state has declared all roads closed or you go to jail, they pack the grocery store because they got shiat to buy and you better be open or you're getting a customer complaint.
 
2014-02-05 10:32:05 PM  

overfienduglar: One would think that store manager would be glade that they didn't have to pay the hours on what will clearly be a dead day.


www.glade.com
 
2014-02-05 10:37:27 PM  
Willie L: We are hearing only one side of this story.  Something tells me that this was simply the straw that broke the camels back.  No one fires a person for missing one day's work.  The hiring process takes too much effort to just fire employees indiscriminately.

I used to work at a place that would fire a person for missing one day's work. The GM didn't seem to understand costs unless it was something that you literally had to pay money for. So one day he declared that no one could order white-out because "I'm not paying for white-out when people can just cross it out or do it over." He literally didn't see having people "do it over" as a cost or waste.

There was a bad snowstorm and he said that anyone who called in because of the storm would get fired---and two people did get fired. There was a rule that if you couldn't make it in, you had to call within 30 minutes of when you were supposed to be there. So there was a guy who neglected to reset his alarm after a 3-day weekend, called in about 50 after he was supposed to be there and got fired. There was a woman who was having an emotional meltdown because her husband had left her, she didn't call in until lunch time, she got fired.

And none of these were cases where they were looking to get rid of a bad employee. It was this "we own you" attitude (I was told that multiple times) and there could be no allowances for being human, having a life, etc. I was once late because I was in bad traffic due to an acciden and was told that wasn't a valid excuse, I should have left the house earlier. I wasn't sure if I was supposed to be psychic and know about the accident ahead of time or allow an extra 40 minutes every day in case there was an accident.
 
2014-02-05 10:41:12 PM  

jso2897: Smackledorfer: jso2897: Nonrepeating Rotating Binary: Back in the late 80's, the company I worked for instituted a policy of "flexibility" for parents, in the name of supporting Working Families.  It quickly devolved into one massive excuse for parents to be absent at the drop of a hat and push all of their work off on the single and non-parent workers.  Within six months, there was a revolt by those of us being forced to pick up the slack as our 'family-minded' co-workers massively abused the system, and the whole thing was scrapped.

Yeah, sucks you have a kid who needs you.  But the terms of your job are not different because you're a parent.

It's really a shiatty situation, and this woman need help - but her employer isn't a charity or welfare agency - they can't deal with this, they sell groceries. By the way - where's daddy? Is she raising this child alone, and if so, why?
But if she can't really work and care for her child properly, she has to accept that and move forward.

Horseshiat.

We have high unemployment. Plenty of folks would take a part time average 20 hours jpb and accept being called in on her family days.

Where is daddy? Probably has a job too. But way to play the welfare stereotype...

I would have no problem giving her welfare - if Dad has flown the coop and left her high and dry, then society has to care for her and her kid, and I'm more than happy to pay my share. But the solution to this is not for her employer to try to cover for society failing to help her.
The idea that she must work to justify her and her child's existence, even if the kid's health problems make it impossible for her to hold down a job reliably, is the real problem here. At some point soon, we are going to have to look at the fact that worker productivity increases and market changes have put us at the point where we are going to examine the old biblical economic model. There will not be jobs for everybody again. Ever. And if we can't cure ourselves of our irrational hatred of the idea of a "welfare state", then we'd better think up another name to call it - because we are there, now.


Fair enough.
 
2014-02-05 10:41:42 PM  

Phins: Willie L: We are hearing only one side of this story.  Something tells me that this was simply the straw that broke the camels back.  No one fires a person for missing one day's work.  The hiring process takes too much effort to just fire employees indiscriminately.

I used to work at a place that would fire a person for missing one day's work. The GM didn't seem to understand costs unless it was something that you literally had to pay money for. So one day he declared that no one could order white-out because "I'm not paying for white-out when people can just cross it out or do it over." He literally didn't see having people "do it over" as a cost or waste.

There was a bad snowstorm and he said that anyone who called in because of the storm would get fired---and two people did get fired. There was a rule that if you couldn't make it in, you had to call within 30 minutes of when you were supposed to be there. So there was a guy who neglected to reset his alarm after a 3-day weekend, called in about 50 after he was supposed to be there and got fired. There was a woman who was having an emotional meltdown because her husband had left her, she didn't call in until lunch time, she got fired.

And none of these were cases where they were looking to get rid of a bad employee. It was this "we own you" attitude (I was told that multiple times) and there could be no allowances for being human, having a life, etc. I was once late because I was in bad traffic due to an acciden and was told that wasn't a valid excuse, I should have left the house earlier. I wasn't sure if I was supposed to be psychic and know about the accident ahead of time or allow an extra 40 minutes every day in case there was an accident.



With such rigid policies, it would be fun to go around to all your coworkers homes at 2:00am and let the air out of all their tires.  Everyone would be late on the same day at the same time.  Would the boss just fire everyone out of spite and be left to man the company himself?  Whatever happened, I'm sure it'd be funny.
 
2014-02-05 10:44:35 PM  

Revek: Gecko Gingrich: "Everyone has personal reasons or unexpected events that occasionally cause us to be late or miss work; recognizing this, our attendance policy in the Midwest region of Whole Foods Market is designed to provide support for our team members when these things happen. This includes a combination of excused and unexcused absences to provide the most flexibility," Phelps said in a statement. "Excused absences include illness (with a note from a medical provider), death in the family, jury duty, catastrophic events or city-wide weather disasters. Each team member is allowed up to five unexcused absences or 'points,' in a six-month period. No singular attendance event would cause a team member to be separated, and excused absences are not included in the 'points' system. Team members approaching their limit of unexcused absences receive warnings and reminders, and those who exceed their limit are separated."

read: this was not her fist time...or second time...or third...fourth...well, let's just say she has a habit of calling out

Yeah because she has a kid who needs to be taken care of and probably not one daycare that will.  I always imagine someone like you at 80 alone and just wishing someone cared enough to end your life because your to much of a coward to do it yourself.


Like my opening post stated, I understand, I just don't care. I've got a business to run. I agreed to pay you and you agreed to help me make the money to pay you. I've given you a set number of excused absences and for some reason even given you a set number of unexcused absences. You want charity? Go to a church.

Just because you can't come in doesn't mean the customers stop coming in. "But you can make do this time without me. Other people will cover for me." True. And I guess that proves we don't actually need your services. Thank you for helping me realize that.
 
2014-02-05 10:46:03 PM  

Gecko Gingrich: read: this was not her fist time...or second time...or third...fourth...well, let's just say she has a habit of calling out


Exactly.  I suspect she's stayed home every snow day.

baorao: Yeah our time clock software rounds up the last 7 minutes of the hour. I came across several people who clocked out at 4:53 every day just because "hey free 7 minutes". Seems like such a stupid risk to take when the reviewers see the actual time even though the payroll software counts 4:53 as 5:00


My former employer had a full computerized timeclock, in general no human read over all the details.  A few guys were surprised when they got fired when it was caught that they were consistently clocking out for lunch at 1pm and then back in a little while later.  (Lunch was 12pm-1pm and since this was a factory you had no flexibility in that--the production line wasn't running, you couldn't work.)

lordjupiter: A timeclock is not a legal document or proof of work. Especially if someone is punching for a friend (which also happens).


Yup, a few that that former employer I mentioned above got fired that way also.  Punching in requires a password, they had to have provided that password.  I've been toying with a notion of using bluetooth-equipped cell phones to control the timeclock--people aren't likely to be parting with their phones to play games with the timeclock.
 
2014-02-05 10:50:11 PM  
jshine:

With such rigid policies, it would be fun to go around to all your coworkers homes at 2:00am and let the air out of all their tires.  Everyone would be late on the same day at the same time.  Would the boss just fire everyone out of spite and be left to man the ...

I once started a job where the boss had fired EVERYBODY. It was just me and three other girls who had just been hired. One girls was on drugs and was fired that day for being on drugs.
 
2014-02-05 10:50:20 PM  
I don't know what's worse -- the management at this Whole Foods store, or the guy who uses the word "uppity" non-ironically in 2014.
 
2014-02-05 11:01:42 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: The only good thing about Whole Foods is the employees. Corporate sucks, and the clientele by and large suck.


The one trick pony has spoken.
 
2014-02-05 11:02:31 PM  
Another Fark thread chock full of misogyny and Libertarian fake badassery?

There's a surprise!
 
2014-02-05 11:04:46 PM  
Corporation First! fark your family. Leave that kid at home alone. If it dies, more time for the mother to work.

Three cheers for FARK bad-asses!!!
 
2014-02-05 11:05:20 PM  

mediablitz: Another Fark thread chock full of misogyny and Libertarian fake badassery?

There's a surprise!


I was going to say "Don't forget racism but apparently someone named their white kid Rhiannon.
 
2014-02-05 11:07:31 PM  

AutumnWind: jshine:

With such rigid policies, it would be fun to go around to all your coworkers homes at 2:00am and let the air out of all their tires.  Everyone would be late on the same day at the same time.  Would the boss just fire everyone out of spite and be left to man the ...

I once started a job where the boss had fired EVERYBODY. It was just me and three other girls who had just been hired. One girls was on drugs and was fired that day for being on drugs.


Where was that?
 
2014-02-05 11:08:06 PM  

jst3p: AutumnWind: moike: What I'm taking away from this thread is my decision to never have kids was one of the best life choices I've ever made.

Same here.

They are a lot of fun if you can afford them. My girlfriend and I are both in pretty good tax brackets, we don't face problems like this.


Good for you, seriously, no snark...

The girlfriend and I are in pretty good tax brackets as well, and have cats...  Both of us just couldn't find anything really worthwhile in our genetic makeup that deserved passing down.  If we get the baby itch, there are more than enough kids that could use parents.  We'll adopt.
 
2014-02-05 11:08:57 PM  

moike: jst3p: AutumnWind: moike: What I'm taking away from this thread is my decision to never have kids was one of the best life choices I've ever made.

Same here.

They are a lot of fun if you can afford them. My girlfriend and I are both in pretty good tax brackets, we don't face problems like this.

Good for you, seriously, no snark...

The girlfriend and I are in pretty good tax brackets as well, and have cats...  Both of us just couldn't find anything really worthwhile in our genetic makeup that deserved passing down.  If we get the baby itch, there are more than enough kids that could use parents.  We'll adopt.


Cheers! Sounds like some lucky cats.
 
2014-02-05 11:10:29 PM  

zedster: Gecko Gingrich: "Everyone has personal reasons or unexpected events that occasionally cause us to be late or miss work; recognizing this, our attendance policy in the Midwest region of Whole Foods Market is designed to provide support for our team members when these things happen. This includes a combination of excused and unexcused absences to provide the most flexibility," Phelps said in a statement. "Excused absences include illness (with a note from a medical provider), death in the family, jury duty, catastrophic events or city-wide weather disasters. Each team member is allowed up to five unexcused absences or 'points,' in a six-month period. No singular attendance event would cause a team member to be separated, and excused absences are not included in the 'points' system. Team members approaching their limit of unexcused absences receive warnings and reminders, and those who exceed their limit are separated."

read: this was not her fist time...or second time...or third...fourth...well, let's just say she has a habit of calling out

So say she had 4 missed days in 5 months, Chicago has two days of no school and she has to look after her son. Boom! Fired.

To say the public schools closing due to weather is not a city wide weather alert seems disingenuous no?


Missing 4 days in 5 months is nothing for a mother.

School holidays
Curriculum days
children sick.  (that would be maybe a few with a healthy child).

Schools are just not inline with working hours.   Personally for myself it was easier when my child was just in creche once she went to school then the bullshiat started.  Schools really need to start aligning with the working hours of most people.
 
2014-02-05 11:14:50 PM  

Loren: Gecko Gingrich: read: this was not her fist time...or second time...or third...fourth...well, let's just say she has a habit of calling out

Exactly.  I suspect she's stayed home every snow day.

baorao: Yeah our time clock software rounds up the last 7 minutes of the hour. I came across several people who clocked out at 4:53 every day just because "hey free 7 minutes". Seems like such a stupid risk to take when the reviewers see the actual time even though the payroll software counts 4:53 as 5:00

My former employer had a full computerized timeclock, in general no human read over all the details.  A few guys were surprised when they got fired when it was caught that they were consistently clocking out for lunch at 1pm and then back in a little while later.  (Lunch was 12pm-1pm and since this was a factory you had no flexibility in that--the production line wasn't running, you couldn't work.)

lordjupiter: A timeclock is not a legal document or proof of work. Especially if someone is punching for a friend (which also happens).

Yup, a few that that former employer I mentioned above got fired that way also.  Punching in requires a password, they had to have provided that password.  I've been toying with a notion of using bluetooth-equipped cell phones to control the timeclock--people aren't likely to be parting with their phones to play games with the timeclock.


FLSA has pretty specific rules on how time clocks are to be used, but then again, many companies fail to follow the proper procedures and get away with all kinds of bull shiat as well.

http://www.dol.gov/elaws/esa/flsa/hoursworked/screenEE29.asp

Don't even get me started on the scam that is exempt salary.

So, while some workers game the system, so do many businesses as well because of the sick desire to control employee's time. As long as the job is getting done, who cares if it takes 4 hours or 40.
 
2014-02-05 11:15:11 PM  

Smackledorfer: Nabb1: FizixJunkee: jst3p: Nah, in retail they just schedule you for so few hours that you quit.

During college, I worked at a coffee shop.  The guy who owned it would do just that when he wanted to get rid of an employee: cut their hours so ridiculously---e.g., from full-time 40 hours/week down to less than 5 hours/week---that they had no choice but to quit.

Bonus: He didn't have to pay unemployment!

/guess which political party he aligned himself with

That's pretty common practice in food & beverage and retail. Anyone who works in those fields knows when that happens, the writing is on the wall and to start looking for a new job. Maybe you prefer firing people outright with no warning? At least you give people a chance to quit rather than explaining why they were fired. Unless you catch them doing something awful like stealing or showing up drunk, of course.

I would rather be fired and get umemployment while finding another job.

My last restaurant job played all those games. I took a week off with months of advance notice and they cut my hours after, from 40 to 25ish. Which meant 35after I picked up shifts for the folks my boss shifted my hours to.

This occurred every year after 4th of july when my extended family all hits the lake. To add insult to injury, that was a bad week for business anyways. I mean like work open to close on the 4th and get 40 bucks slow.


Why didn't you find another job while working your few hours? Better then unemployment would pay you while you search.
 
2014-02-05 11:16:22 PM  

jso2897: bigdog1960: bigdog1960: Illinois is full of prices. I don't know why, I had to leave.

Pricks damn auto correct

Say what you will about Illinois pricks - at least they have an ethos.


And it's farking golden.
 
2014-02-05 11:26:40 PM  

El Dudereno: catches every germ that goes around.


Hey, I used to never get sick. Now, I expect to catch everything my kids get a couple of days after they have it.
 
2014-02-05 11:28:08 PM  

Nonrepeating Rotating Binary: Back in the late 80's, the company I worked for instituted a policy of "flexibility" for parents, in the name of supporting Working Families.  It quickly devolved into one massive excuse for parents to be absent at the drop of a hat and push all of their work off on the single and non-parent workers.  Within six months, there was a revolt by those of us being forced to pick up the slack as our 'family-minded' co-workers massively abused the system, and the whole thing was scrapped.

Yeah, sucks you have a kid who needs you.  But the terms of your job are not different because you're a parent.


As long as the law makes it a criminal offence of neglect to leave a child at home by themselves.  Then damn right the law must make sure employers give le-way for parents.
 
2014-02-05 11:31:34 PM  
Lawsuit, collect money. Get kid into home school. Win. Fark Whole foods. Nothing wholesome about them.
 
2014-02-05 11:37:16 PM  
I come in when the hell I want 8 am to 10:30 AM
I leave when I want.  If I want to be gone for two hours for lunch and go look at an auction inspection, I do it.
I also make the company wads of money, instead of pretending to contribute an playing Facebook games all day.
 
2014-02-05 11:40:07 PM  

jso2897: The idea that she must work to justify her and her child's existence

...

Should people not be expected to provide value to society?  How would you choose to measure that value?
 
2014-02-06 12:00:14 AM  

Gecko Gingrich: "Everyone has personal reasons or unexpected events that occasionally cause us to be late or miss work; recognizing this, our attendance policy in the Midwest region of Whole Foods Market is designed to provide support for our team members when these things happen. This includes a combination of excused and unexcused absences to provide the most flexibility," Phelps said in a statement. "Excused absences include illness (with a note from a medical provider), death in the family, jury duty, catastrophic events or city-wide weather disasters. Each team member is allowed up to five unexcused absences or 'points,' in a six-month period. No singular attendance event would cause a team member to be separated, and excused absences are not included in the 'points' system. Team members approaching their limit of unexcused absences receive warnings and reminders, and those who exceed their limit are separated."

read: this was not her fist time...or second time...or third...fourth...well, let's just say she has a habit of calling out


ronniehiggins.com

You assume much and know very little. But, if your fantasy enforces your delusion that your world view is correct then I guess its a win for you.
 
2014-02-06 12:03:17 AM  

Prophet of Loss: You assume much and know very little. But, if your fantasy enforces your delusion that your world view is correct then I guess its a win for you.


Rubber/glue or pot/kettle, take your pick.
 
2014-02-06 12:04:00 AM  

moike: What I'm taking away from this thread is my decision to never have kids was one of the best life choices I've ever made.


C'mon, you already knew that.
It's not the best life choice for everyone, but know it was for me.

/Childless by choices (My choice, my wife's choice. One reason we're married)
//Nothing at all against those who have kids. Heck, my folks had kids! So did my wife's folks!
 
2014-02-06 12:13:26 AM  

Freudian_slipknot: Yeah, weather in Chicago has been horrible this year, and CPS has had two snow days.  But that doesn't mean it was a city-wide weather emergency, since everything was still open and public transit was still running normally.



Everything wasn't open and transit wasn't running normally.  Employers throughout the downtown area closed their offices and/or switched to contingency plans that had employees working remotely from home.  Neither Metra nor the CTA could operate normally during the weather.  So, other than the fact that you are wrong, your basis for defining what constitutes a "city wide emergency" has about as much validity as the basis used by Whole Foods ("Whelp, most of our employees got here, so there isn't an emergency") since their "unexcused" absence policy essentially guarantees that their employees will brave just about anything to get to work (since they have no way of knowing beforehand how many people will or won't make it).


Basically, it's pretty clear from their policy that she was making a habit of unexcused absences.   Can't say I blame her, since I've also been tempted to play hooky to avoid the trudge to work through the snow, but I also can't blame the company for replacing someone who leaves them understaffed with no warning once a month on average.  There's a line out the door of people looking for a job in the city who would be happy to show up when scheduled.  I don't believe for a minute, having worked retail, that other companies have been "more understanding" of calling in with no notice more than once or twice a year.

Yeah, the whole "I couldn't find alternative childcare at the drop of a hat" excuse is pretty hard to believe and it's not like parents have been complaining to the CPS and other area districts about how these closings are wreaking havoc on their employment situations.  I can see why you saw through her excuse and revealed it for the smokescreen it was.  Bravo, you discerning fellow.
 
2014-02-06 12:14:40 AM  
She was already an attendance nightmare clearly or another way to solve this is...don't be a single mother. Can't take the responsibility don't spread the legs.
 
2014-02-06 12:15:44 AM  

Gecko Gingrich: "Everyone has personal reasons or unexpected events that occasionally cause us to be late or miss work; recognizing this, our attendance policy in the Midwest region of Whole Foods Market is designed to provide support for our team members when these things happen. This includes a combination of excused and unexcused absences to provide the most flexibility," Phelps said in a statement. "Excused absences include illness (with a note from a medical provider), death in the family, jury duty, catastrophic events or city-wide weather disasters. Each team member is allowed up to five unexcused absences or 'points,' in a six-month period. No singular attendance event would cause a team member to be separated, and excused absences are not included in the 'points' system. Team members approaching their limit of unexcused absences receive warnings and reminders, and those who exceed their limit are separated."

read: this was not her fist time...or second time...or third...fourth...well, let's just say she has a habit of calling out


Am I reading this right? 10 no-shows a year...that's as much vacation as I get and I'm a salaried, full-time worker.

How about you STFU!
 
2014-02-06 01:10:08 AM  

Tobin_Lam: When you have kids, especially a special needs kid, you have a backup that can watch your kid and at least one more backup ready just in case.


As the parent of a special needs child, I can tell you that finding anyone who is willing to watch your kid is very difficult.  This is especially true if your child is unable to walk at the expected age, as they then require you to provide an aide to be there with your child.  While most states do in theory have programs in place to provide aides, you may be on a waiting list for months or even years to get one (especially in WI since Walker moved the management of that program from DHS to regional groups that don't give a crap)
 
2014-02-06 01:20:35 AM  
The funny thing is, these outraged people are probably the same people who were outraged about how CPS initially wasn't going to call snow days for the cold. Then CPS gave in and let the snowflakes stay home.

One of the objections to the outrage was what about the parents who would have to stay home from their jobs because the schools closed... and it was 'think about the children'....  Meanwhile in decades past we went to school in this weather.
 
2014-02-06 01:34:13 AM  

Gecko Gingrich: "Everyone has personal reasons or unexpected events that occasionally cause us to be late or miss work; recognizing this, our attendance policy in the Midwest region of Whole Foods Market is designed to provide support for our team members when these things happen. This includes a combination of excused and unexcused absences to provide the most flexibility," Phelps said in a statement. "Excused absences include illness (with a note from a medical provider), death in the family, jury duty, catastrophic events or city-wide weather disasters. Each team member is allowed up to five unexcused absences or 'points,' in a six-month period. No singular attendance event would cause a team member to be separated, and excused absences are not included in the 'points' system. Team members approaching their limit of unexcused absences receive warnings and reminders, and those who exceed their limit are separated."

read: this was not her fist time...or second time...or third...fourth...well, let's just say she has a habit of calling out


This is nothing new with companies not letting people take care of their kids. I worked at Ameritech for 3 months years ago. We were told that if we missed more than 3 days of work a year, we were fired. The moms there were panicking because they knew that a case of the flu going through their house would get them fired. They trained 5 of us for. 3 months, none of us stayed after our training period because of that rule.

Women typically are the ones to have to stay home if the kids are sick. I have yet to hear one of my girlfriends say that they went to work and their husband stayed home with the sick kid even when both were just as accomplished in their careers.

I was actually told to give 2 weeks notice in the future when I needed a day off and replied that the next time someone died, I would tell them to give me 2 weeks notice. (Was out a day for my fiance's great grandmother's funeral.) The HR lady looked like she had been slapped when she realized what she had said.

We don't have all the worker and family care protections that the EU has. The vacation time either. But the sick thing is there are people siding with the store instead of saying, "what kind of country are we if instead of making sure people can take care of their kids while still keeping their jobs, we pick on the person who couldn't leave their kids home alone to come to work."

shiat happens and it's especially rough for someone with a special needs kid as they have a lot fewer childcare options available to them. She must need the job if she is working. My cousin has Down syndrome and there are limited people that my aunt can leave her with.

Even if the kid doesn't have special needs, you can't leave them home alone legally until they are 13 in my state.
 
2014-02-06 01:41:07 AM  

leadmetal: The funny thing is, these outraged people are probably the same people who were outraged about how CPS initially wasn't going to call snow days for the cold. Then CPS gave in and let the snowflakes stay home.

One of the objections to the outrage was what about the parents who would have to stay home from their jobs because the schools closed... and it was 'think about the children'....  Meanwhile in decades past we went to school in this weather.


Which decades didn't have snow days?
 
2014-02-06 01:41:35 AM  

Farkin Charlie: No, this was the  fifth unexcused absence in 6 months, this doesn't count the other times she may have missed and was excused. Sounds like they actually have a very lenient attendance policy for retail. Most places don't give you that for a whole year. And, if she had a special needs child, why wasn't she on flma, which would have protected her?


Some Chicago area schools have had 5 + snow days since going back in January.

We had 4 so far in the far outer suburbs along with everyone else in the area.

So yeah, these could have all happened because of snow days.

Excused absences usually require notice. Typically 2 weeks. You don't get that with snow days. At best they told us noon the day before that they would be closed and that was a lot of notice as I remember finding out on the tv as a kid in the morning.
 
2014-02-06 01:59:01 AM  

HotIgneous Intruder: RyansPrivates: Cyclometh: BunkyBrewman: Those damn facts

Point of order- those are not  facts, they are assertions about the company's policy, and they specifically did  not comment on this woman's situation.

It is entirely possible that she was terminated for violating that policy, but there are no facts here, just what people are asserting to be true. It's also possible she was not in violation of the policy (although less likely in my opinion).

The question is, in my mind, why is this an unexcused absence if that was the case.  From the company's own statement of policy (relevant parts bolded):

...excused absences include illness (with a note from a medical provider), death in the family, jury duty, catastrophic events or city-wide weather disasters. Each team member is allowed up to five unexcused absences or 'points,' in a six-month period.

Why is this counted as an unexcused absence?

"Unexcused absence" WTF.
What is this, high school?
Does she need a note from her mommy as well?


Huh? I take it you don't work in corporate America?
 
2014-02-06 02:00:59 AM  
How many of those who picketed Whole Foods in support of this woman's habit of missing work also offered to look after her child next time she needs help?

I'm going to guess "zero."
 
2014-02-06 02:02:08 AM  

Gecko Gingrich: Revek: Gecko Gingrich: "Everyone has personal reasons or unexpected events that occasionally cause us to be late or miss work; recognizing this, our attendance policy in the Midwest region of Whole Foods Market is designed to provide support for our team members when these things happen. This includes a combination of excused and unexcused absences to provide the most flexibility," Phelps said in a statement. "Excused absences include illness (with a note from a medical provider), death in the family, jury duty, catastrophic events or city-wide weather disasters. Each team member is allowed up to five unexcused absences or 'points,' in a six-month period. No singular attendance event would cause a team member to be separated, and excused absences are not included in the 'points' system. Team members approaching their limit of unexcused absences receive warnings and reminders, and those who exceed their limit are separated."

read: this was not her fist time...or second time...or third...fourth...well, let's just say she has a habit of calling out

Yeah because she has a kid who needs to be taken care of and probably not one daycare that will.  I always imagine someone like you at 80 alone and just wishing someone cared enough to end your life because your to much of a coward to do it yourself.

Like my opening post stated, I understand, I just don't care. I've got a business to run. I agreed to pay you and you agreed to help me make the money to pay you. I've given you a set number of excused absences and for some reason even given you a set number of unexcused absences. You want charity? Go to a church.

Just because you can't come in doesn't mean the customers stop coming in. "But you can make do this time without me. Other people will cover for me." True. And I guess that proves we don't actually need your services. Thank you for helping me realize that.


Oh I understood you just fine.  Did you understand me?
 
2014-02-06 03:18:13 AM  
Our plant has a no fault policy.  Miss so many days and you're out no matter what.  Women, older workers who have put 30 years in makes no difference.  I hope there's a special place in hell for people like this.
 
2014-02-06 03:22:30 AM  

ocd002: We don't have all the worker and family care protections that the EU has. The vacation time either. But the sick thing is there are people siding with the store instead of saying, "what kind of country are we if instead of making sure people can take care of their kids while still keeping their jobs, we pick on the person who couldn't leave their kids home alone to come to work."


It sounds like she sidled up to her maximum entitlements every 6 months (probably frequently with dubious cause) so they'd had enough of her.  Unexcused absences are theoretically for emergencies and expected events.  If you're using the maximum every time then you're probably rorting it.

How many days above what she agreed to when they hired her should they allow?  And since you think she should get extra, how about all the other employees?  What excuses will give them access to the bottomless pool of munificence you propose the company have?

I live in a pretty socialist-y country and I am not a capitalist-y person (I'm a very active union representative, and think your Democrats are unbearably right wing).  At my job I have five weeks vacation, unlimited sick leave, unlimited funeral leave, and fifteen days "domestic" leave (for looking after sick family members, etc).  The company is very generous with flexible time, allowing people to start any time between 6am and 10am, and finish any time after 3pm, so long as you do your 40 hours that week.  If I needed cancer treatment I could have six months off, paid, easy.  Our HR is still a foetid cesspool of psychopaths and failed lawyers who will smile while they screw you over if you appear to be abusing their largess.

I say screw this lady.  Her child is not an excuse. When you take a job you agree to the terms and conditions.  If for any reason you are regularly not able to meet the terms and conditions that you agreed to when you signed a contract then you should find another job that has expectations you're capable of meeting.  The burden isn't on the company to keep trying to find ways to make special allowances for you.  They don't have to put up with your personal life constantly interfering with the duties you agreed in a legally binding manner to carry out when they hired you.  It sucks, but there you have it.

Your employer is not your friend.  Never let them lull you into a false sense of a security or loyalty.  Do what you agreed to do when you signed the contract, and expect them to do no more than the same (and less if their lawyers convince them they can get away with it).
 
2014-02-06 05:17:50 AM  
The 47 Percenters get no respect.

i1.wp.com
 
2014-02-06 05:23:10 AM  

moike: What I'm taking away from this thread is my decision to never have kids was one of the best life choices I've ever made.


Too bad your parents didn't make that same choice.

Gosh people are assholes about children. Your comment isn't the worst, just merely the stupid one I'm picking on.

From where I sit, what's going on with this lady isn't that damned bad. OMG, she was absent a day because she had to take care of her child. Or maybe she had a day or two where she was ill herself. Maybe the sitter called off.

Never get sick. Never need anything. Just show up and be a machine for an employer. It's effing inhuman.

And then we get assholes in threads like these justifying asshole corporate behavior. She is not the problem. The system that doesn't allow for people to be human is the god damned problem.
 
2014-02-06 05:31:42 AM  

ocd002: Was out a day for my fiance's great grandmother's funeral.


You got a day off for your boyfriend's great-grandmother's funeral? Adding up all the equivalent relatives and up, that's six days off just for your boyfriend's side of the family (his parents, their parents, and their parents).

Then your family, that's another six, making 12. Then, god forbid, siblings. And if they'll let you go for fairly distant relatives of your boyfriend's, which they will, then they'll let you go for his cousins. And your cousins. So it's pretty much endless there, I take it?

I'm not complaining, but I would like to know if they're hiring. I could use a few more days off every month, and I can easily pick up a few extra boyfriends to achieve that, and even more.
 
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