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(Chicago Sun-Times)   Employee at Whole Foods fired for calling off work because Chicago Public Schools called a snow day and she had to stay at home and take care of her special needs child. Shockingly, the uppity hipster outrage has yet to start   (suntimes.com) divider line 185
    More: Sick, CPS, whole foods, Rhiannon Broschat, River North, unexpected events, weather disasters, special needs, catastrophe theory  
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9106 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Feb 2014 at 8:18 PM (25 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



185 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2014-02-05 06:49:47 PM
Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand.
 
2014-02-05 06:55:22 PM
That seems pretty consistent for Whole Foods, seeing as how they have a union-busting Ayn Randite as their CEO.
 
2014-02-05 06:58:17 PM
"Everyone has personal reasons or unexpected events that occasionally cause us to be late or miss work; recognizing this, our attendance policy in the Midwest region of Whole Foods Market is designed to provide support for our team members when these things happen. This includes a combination of excused and unexcused absences to provide the most flexibility," Phelps said in a statement. "Excused absences include illness (with a note from a medical provider), death in the family, jury duty, catastrophic events or city-wide weather disasters. Each team member is allowed up to five unexcused absences or 'points,' in a six-month period. No singular attendance event would cause a team member to be separated, and excused absences are not included in the 'points' system. Team members approaching their limit of unexcused absences receive warnings and reminders, and those who exceed their limit are separated."

read: this was not her fist time...or second time...or third...fourth...well, let's just say she has a habit of calling out
 
2014-02-05 07:06:04 PM

Gecko Gingrich: "Everyone has personal reasons or unexpected events that occasionally cause us to be late or miss work; recognizing this, our attendance policy in the Midwest region of Whole Foods Market is designed to provide support for our team members when these things happen. This includes a combination of excused and unexcused absences to provide the most flexibility," Phelps said in a statement. "Excused absences include illness (with a note from a medical provider), death in the family, jury duty, catastrophic events or city-wide weather disasters. Each team member is allowed up to five unexcused absences or 'points,' in a six-month period. No singular attendance event would cause a team member to be separated, and excused absences are not included in the 'points' system. Team members approaching their limit of unexcused absences receive warnings and reminders, and those who exceed their limit are separated."

read: this was not her fist time...or second time...or third...fourth...well, let's just say she has a habit of calling out


Oopsie.

Those damn facts keep getting in the way of a good faux-outrage screechathon.
 
2014-02-05 07:11:54 PM

Gecko Gingrich: "Everyone has personal reasons or unexpected events that occasionally cause us to be late or miss work; recognizing this, our attendance policy in the Midwest region of Whole Foods Market is designed to provide support for our team members when these things happen. This includes a combination of excused and unexcused absences to provide the most flexibility," Phelps said in a statement. "Excused absences include illness (with a note from a medical provider), death in the family, jury duty, catastrophic events or city-wide weather disasters. Each team member is allowed up to five unexcused absences or 'points,' in a six-month period. No singular attendance event would cause a team member to be separated, and excused absences are not included in the 'points' system. Team members approaching their limit of unexcused absences receive warnings and reminders, and those who exceed their limit are separated."

read: this was not her fist time...or second time...or third...fourth...well, let's just say she has a habit of calling out


THIS

/non story
 
2014-02-05 07:26:17 PM

Gecko Gingrich: "Everyone has personal reasons or unexpected events that occasionally cause us to be late or miss work; recognizing this, our attendance policy in the Midwest region of Whole Foods Market is designed to provide support for our team members when these things happen. This includes a combination of excused and unexcused absences to provide the most flexibility," Phelps said in a statement. "Excused absences include illness (with a note from a medical provider), death in the family, jury duty, catastrophic events or city-wide weather disasters. Each team member is allowed up to five unexcused absences or 'points,' in a six-month period. No singular attendance event would cause a team member to be separated, and excused absences are not included in the 'points' system. Team members approaching their limit of unexcused absences receive warnings and reminders, and those who exceed their limit are separated."

read: this was not her fist time...or second time...or third...fourth...well, let's just say she has a habit of calling out


I assumed something along those lines. I mean, does her kid never get sick? There are so many reasons why a kid might unexpectedly to be babysat by the state, how could a single snow day bring her whole professional life crashing down around her?
 
2014-02-05 07:45:30 PM

Gecko Gingrich: "Everyone has personal reasons or unexpected events that occasionally cause us to be late or miss work; recognizing this, our attendance policy in the Midwest region of Whole Foods Market is designed to provide support for our team members when these things happen. This includes a combination of excused and unexcused absences to provide the most flexibility," Phelps said in a statement. "Excused absences include illness (with a note from a medical provider), death in the family, jury duty, catastrophic events or city-wide weather disasters. Each team member is allowed up to five unexcused absences or 'points,' in a six-month period. No singular attendance event would cause a team member to be separated, and excused absences are not included in the 'points' system. Team members approaching their limit of unexcused absences receive warnings and reminders, and those who exceed their limit are separated."

read: this was not her fist time...or second time...or third...fourth...well, let's just say she has a habit of calling out


So say she had 4 missed days in 5 months, Chicago has two days of no school and she has to look after her son. Boom! Fired.

To say the public schools closing due to weather is not a city wide weather alert seems disingenuous no?
 
2014-02-05 07:46:53 PM

gopher321: Gecko Gingrich: "Everyone has personal reasons or unexpected events that occasionally cause us to be late or miss work; recognizing this, our attendance policy in the Midwest region of Whole Foods Market is designed to provide support for our team members when these things happen. This includes a combination of excused and unexcused absences to provide the most flexibility," Phelps said in a statement. "Excused absences include illness (with a note from a medical provider), death in the family, jury duty, catastrophic events or city-wide weather disasters. Each team member is allowed up to five unexcused absences or 'points,' in a six-month period. No singular attendance event would cause a team member to be separated, and excused absences are not included in the 'points' system. Team members approaching their limit of unexcused absences receive warnings and reminders, and those who exceed their limit are separated."

read: this was not her fist time...or second time...or third...fourth...well, let's just say she has a habit of calling out

THIS

/non story


Seconded. I'd also like to know why "special needs" is in quotation marks.
 
2014-02-05 07:53:57 PM
The city government was also shutdown and "weather disaster" is not a legal term as far as I can tell.

In DC most companies close if the fed does for fear their employees get injured sue and use the government closure to prove it was dangerous. Can't imagine why that wouldn't hold across the board
 
2014-02-05 08:07:19 PM
Whole Presumptuous Headline
 
2014-02-05 08:09:17 PM

Gecko Gingrich: read: this was not her fist time


Because if it had been her fist time, it would have most likely been excused.
 
2014-02-05 08:23:41 PM
The only good thing about Whole Foods is the employees. Corporate sucks, and the clientele by and large suck.
 
2014-02-05 08:26:16 PM

BunkyBrewman: Those damn facts


Point of order- those are not  facts, they are assertions about the company's policy, and they specifically did  not comment on this woman's situation.

It is entirely possible that she was terminated for violating that policy, but there are no facts here, just what people are asserting to be true. It's also possible she was not in violation of the policy (although less likely in my opinion).
 
2014-02-05 08:27:43 PM
No, this was the  fifth unexcused absence in 6 months, this doesn't count the other times she may have missed and was excused. Sounds like they actually have a very lenient attendance policy for retail. Most places don't give you that for a whole year. And, if she had a special needs child, why wasn't she on flma, which would have protected her?
 
2014-02-05 08:28:27 PM

fusillade762: . I'd also like to know why "special needs" is in quotation marks.



Probably a steady diet of lead paint chips early in life.

Unwelcome at every day care in town, due to his disruptive and violent nature.
 
2014-02-05 08:28:33 PM
Namaste, indeed...
/i, too, would like to know what 'special needs' means and whether the snow day callout was neccessary...
 
2014-02-05 08:29:07 PM

fusillade762: I'd also like to know why "special needs" is in quotation marks.


Because the author doesn't really believe that the child is retarded.
youshouldwriteaboutthat.files.wordpress.com
 
2014-02-05 08:29:54 PM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: The only good thing about Whole Foods is the employees. Corporate sucks, and the clientele by and large suck.


What about the food? Is it any good? I heard it's better than Partial Foods.
 
2014-02-05 08:30:52 PM
Our entire town shut down yesterday. The only places that were open were The Asian Buffet (actually run by a very nice lady from Vietnam), McDonald's and Walmart.
 
2014-02-05 08:31:25 PM
FROM THE COMMENTS

Knox8 minutes ago
"...working single mothers need a little bit of leniency and understanding."

It's a uterus, not a "Get Out of Work" card.
 
2014-02-05 08:31:57 PM

Mark Ratner: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: The only good thing about Whole Foods is the employees. Corporate sucks, and the clientele by and large suck.

What about the food? Is it any good? I heard it's better than Partial Foods.


It's good, but overpriced. Trader Joe's ftw
 
2014-02-05 08:32:57 PM

Gecko Gingrich: "Everyone has personal reasons or unexpected events that occasionally cause us to be late or miss work; recognizing this, our attendance policy in the Midwest region of Whole Foods Market is designed to provide support for our team members when these things happen. This includes a combination of excused and unexcused absences to provide the most flexibility," Phelps said in a statement. "Excused absences include illness (with a note from a medical provider), death in the family, jury duty, catastrophic events or city-wide weather disasters. Each team member is allowed up to five unexcused absences or 'points,' in a six-month period. No singular attendance event would cause a team member to be separated, and excused absences are not included in the 'points' system. Team members approaching their limit of unexcused absences receive warnings and reminders, and those who exceed their limit are separated."

read: this was not her fist time...or second time...or third...fourth...well, let's just say she has a habit of calling out



Our daughter's district canceled school three days last week for one winter storm.  That would be 60% of this woman's unexcused absences from work for ONE event (i.e., a storm that closed schools for multiple days).  In a week or so, there's President's Day, for which our daughter's school will be closed, but not our [the parents'] places of employment.  Fortunately, we have white-collar jobs with flexible schedules that allow us to work from home sometimes.

To me, the problem is that blue-collar jobs don't provide reasonable benefits to their employees, including a reasonable number of sick days and vacation days, not to mention health insurance and retirement benefits.
 
2014-02-05 08:34:17 PM

zedster: Gecko Gingrich: "Everyone has personal reasons or unexpected events that occasionally cause us to be late or miss work; recognizing this, our attendance policy in the Midwest region of Whole Foods Market is designed to provide support for our team members when these things happen. This includes a combination of excused and unexcused absences to provide the most flexibility," Phelps said in a statement. "Excused absences include illness (with a note from a medical provider), death in the family, jury duty, catastrophic events or city-wide weather disasters. Each team member is allowed up to five unexcused absences or 'points,' in a six-month period. No singular attendance event would cause a team member to be separated, and excused absences are not included in the 'points' system. Team members approaching their limit of unexcused absences receive warnings and reminders, and those who exceed their limit are separated."

read: this was not her fist time...or second time...or third...fourth...well, let's just say she has a habit of calling out

So say she had 4 missed days in 5 months, Chicago has two days of no school and she has to look after her son. Boom! Fired.

To say the public schools closing due to weather is not a city wide weather alert seems disingenuous no?


I feel for her because that's probably the case, but I'd really like to punch people who so abuse the system that the stupid "points" system needs to be invented in the first place.  I worked a long time ago at a federal contractor that did construction and IT work, and because the construction workers were such profoundly poor employees we all had to adhere to the point system even if we were salaried.  Those guys would call in sick from the goddamn bar,with the background noise going, at 10am when they were supposed to show up at 7.  We would go meet them for lunch.

It gave me a real appreciation for Hyattsville, MD, which at the time was probably the 3rd shiattiest part of the DC area.  I don't even know if it was legal to serve liquor before noon and I doubt the bar owners did, either.  It was just a sea of construction workers drinking at any given point during the day.  But come quitting time?  That's when you go home!  These guys would lie to their boss and their families just for an opportunity to get drunk during the day.
 
2014-02-05 08:34:44 PM

Cyclometh: BunkyBrewman: Those damn facts

Point of order- those are not  facts, they are assertions about the company's policy, and they specifically did  not comment on this woman's situation.

It is entirely possible that she was terminated for violating that policy, but there are no facts here, just what people are asserting to be true. It's also possible she was not in violation of the policy (although less likely in my opinion).


The question is, in my mind, why is this an unexcused absence if that was the case.  From the company's own statement of policy (relevant parts bolded):

...excused absences include illness (with a note from a medical provider), death in the family, jury duty, catastrophic events or city-wide weather disasters. Each team member is allowed up to five unexcused absences or 'points,' in a six-month period.

Why is this counted as an unexcused absence?
 
2014-02-05 08:35:10 PM
FTFA: She added: "With me having a son, there should be a policy instilled where working single mothers need a little bit of leniency and understanding,


Fark you lady. You should get to call out more than other people because you chose to have a child? How about no.
 
2014-02-05 08:35:37 PM
Whole foods is for fat middle class wannabees. The cool kids shop at co-ops and local farmer's markets.
 
2014-02-05 08:35:40 PM
You do understand that this is nothing personal.
It is just business.

This is your stop.
 
2014-02-05 08:36:43 PM
Dont smoke a monkey.
 
2014-02-05 08:36:57 PM
So was there some sort of weather that only caused the special needs kids to stay home? If not, how is that relevant?

/was it raining potatoes?
 
2014-02-05 08:37:07 PM

Gecko Gingrich: "Everyone has personal reasons or unexpected events that occasionally cause us to be late or miss work; recognizing this, our attendance policy in the Midwest region of Whole Foods Market is designed to provide support for our team members when these things happen. This includes a combination of excused and unexcused absences to provide the most flexibility," Phelps said in a statement. "Excused absences include illness (with a note from a medical provider), death in the family, jury duty, catastrophic events or city-wide weather disasters. Each team member is allowed up to five unexcused absences or 'points,' in a six-month period. No singular attendance event would cause a team member to be separated, and excused absences are not included in the 'points' system. Team members approaching their limit of unexcused absences receive warnings and reminders, and those who exceed their limit are separated."

read: this was not her fist time...or second time...or third...fourth...well, let's just say she has a habit of calling out


So much THIS

Farkin Charlie: No, this was the  fifth unexcused absence in 6 months, this doesn't count the other times she may have missed and was excused. Sounds like they actually have a very lenient attendance policy for retail. Most places don't give you that for a whole year. And, if she had a special needs child, why wasn't she on flma, which would have protected her?


Just calling your child SPECIAL NEEDS does not make it so.  She would need a medical provider to certify FMLA....so there's that
 
2014-02-05 08:38:12 PM

Mattyb710: FTFA: She added: "With me having a son, there should be a policy instilled where working single mothers need a little bit of leniency and understanding,


Fark you lady. You should get to call out more than other people because you chose to have a child? How about no.


Your world sucks.
 
2014-02-05 08:38:32 PM
Where's the kid's father?
 
2014-02-05 08:38:40 PM
No excuses for her special needs child who didn't have a place to go because schools were closed.

Real Capitalists don't give a flying fark about their serfs' crotch fruit.
No concessions to people with challenges in their lives, it just wouldn't be fair to the others.

/The Company doesn't love you. Never forget that.
 
2014-02-05 08:39:00 PM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Mark Ratner: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: The only good thing about Whole Foods is the employees. Corporate sucks, and the clientele by and large suck.

What about the food? Is it any good? I heard it's better than Partial Foods.

It's good, but overpriced. Trader Joe's ftw


You're a smart man. Trader Joe's is awesome. (I've never been to Whole Foods, but heard it is expensive.)
 
2014-02-05 08:39:19 PM

Farkin Charlie: And, if she had a special needs child, why wasn't she on flma, which would have protected her?


Doesn't qualify.

http://www.dol.gov/whd/fmla/

/I swear, one day I'm going to move to a civilized Scandinavian country.
 
2014-02-05 08:40:15 PM

gar1013: Where's the kid's father?


Maybe he couldn't get off work?
 
2014-02-05 08:40:20 PM
We are hearing only one side of this story.  Something tells me that this was simply the straw that broke the camels back.  No one fires a person for missing one day's work.  The hiring process takes too much effort to just fire employees indiscriminately.  How often do you suppose she has called in because of her "special needs" child?  (Their quotes - not mine)
 
2014-02-05 08:40:27 PM

FizixJunkee: Our daughter's district canceled school three days last week for one winter storm.  That would be 60% of this woman's unexcused absences from work for ONE event (i.e., a storm that closed schools for multiple days).  In a week or so, there's President's Day, for which our daughter's school will be closed, but not our [the parents'] places of employment.  Fortunately, we have white-collar jobs with flexible schedules that allow us to work from home sometimes.

To me, the problem is that blue-collar jobs don't provide reasonable benefits to their employees, including a reasonable number of sick days and vacation days, not to mention health insurance and retirement benefits.


Read the policy again, city-wide weather disasters are supposed to  excusedabsences.
 
2014-02-05 08:40:48 PM

RyansPrivates: Cyclometh: BunkyBrewman: Those damn facts

Point of order- those are not  facts, they are assertions about the company's policy, and they specifically did  not comment on this woman's situation.

It is entirely possible that she was terminated for violating that policy, but there are no facts here, just what people are asserting to be true. It's also possible she was not in violation of the policy (although less likely in my opinion).

The question is, in my mind, why is this an unexcused absence if that was the case.  From the company's own statement of policy (relevant parts bolded):

...excused absences include illness (with a note from a medical provider), death in the family, jury duty, catastrophic events or city-wide weather disasters. Each team member is allowed up to five unexcused absences or 'points,' in a six-month period.

Why is this counted as an unexcused absence?


"Unexcused absence" WTF.
What is this, high school?
Does she need a note from her mommy as well?
 
2014-02-05 08:41:01 PM
Subby sounds poor and stupid and jealous. But mostly stupid. And stupid. Did I mention stupid?
 
2014-02-05 08:41:01 PM

Gecko Gingrich: "Everyone has personal reasons or unexpected events that occasionally cause us to be late or miss work; recognizing this, our attendance policy in the Midwest region of Whole Foods Market is designed to provide support for our team members when these things happen. This includes a combination of excused and unexcused absences to provide the most flexibility," Phelps said in a statement. "Excused absences include illness (with a note from a medical provider), death in the family, jury duty, catastrophic events or city-wide weather disasters. Each team member is allowed up to five unexcused absences or 'points,' in a six-month period. No singular attendance event would cause a team member to be separated, and excused absences are not included in the 'points' system. Team members approaching their limit of unexcused absences receive warnings and reminders, and those who exceed their limit are separated."

read: this was not her fist time...or second time...or third...fourth...well, let's just say she has a habit of calling out


Yeah because she has a kid who needs to be taken care of and probably not one daycare that will.  I always imagine someone like you at 80 alone and just wishing someone cared enough to end your life because your to much of a coward to do it yourself.
 
2014-02-05 08:41:45 PM

RyansPrivates: Cyclometh: BunkyBrewman: Those damn facts

Point of order- those are not  facts, they are assertions about the company's policy, and they specifically did  not comment on this woman's situation.

It is entirely possible that she was terminated for violating that policy, but there are no facts here, just what people are asserting to be true. It's also possible she was not in violation of the policy (although less likely in my opinion).

The question is, in my mind, why is this an unexcused absence if that was the case.  From the company's own statement of policy (relevant parts bolded):

...excused absences include illness (with a note from a medical provider), death in the family, jury duty, catastrophic events or city-wide weather disasters. Each team member is allowed up to five unexcused absences or 'points,' in a six-month period.

Why is this counted as an unexcused absence?


Because the state or the city didn't declare a state of emergency. Just because CPS calls a snow day doesn't mean it is a city wide weather disaster.

To tell you the truth, this sounds like she was somebody they wanted to get rid of for whatever reason, and her calling in put her to the point, per her employment contract with the company, that they could fire her.
 
2014-02-05 08:42:35 PM

RyansPrivates: Why is this counted as an unexcused absence?


Probably depends on what they call a "city wide weather disaster."

I don't know how they tend to define that. However, I DO know that Walmart, no matter how much it sucks in other ways (and damn if it doesn't), doesn't hold absences against you if school is canceled due to weather (they're mum on whether it is the district where the store is located or where you live, but probably means either). So some places do have policies to take care of employees in such circumstances.
 
2014-02-05 08:43:25 PM

HotIgneous Intruder: RyansPrivates: Cyclometh: BunkyBrewman: Those damn facts

Point of order- those are not  facts, they are assertions about the company's policy, and they specifically did  not comment on this woman's situation.

It is entirely possible that she was terminated for violating that policy, but there are no facts here, just what people are asserting to be true. It's also possible she was not in violation of the policy (although less likely in my opinion).

The question is, in my mind, why is this an unexcused absence if that was the case.  From the company's own statement of policy (relevant parts bolded):

...excused absences include illness (with a note from a medical provider), death in the family, jury duty, catastrophic events or city-wide weather disasters. Each team member is allowed up to five unexcused absences or 'points,' in a six-month period.

Why is this counted as an unexcused absence?

"Unexcused absence" WTF.
What is this, high school?
Does she need a note from her mommy as well?


The policy from the company is stated upthread. That is the words they used, not mine here it is for your viewing pleasure:

Gecko Gingrich: "Everyone has personal reasons or unexpected events that occasionally cause us to be late or miss work; recognizing this, our attendance policy in the Midwest region of Whole Foods Market is designed to provide support for our team members when these things happen. This includes a combination of excused and unexcused absences to provide the most flexibility," Phelps said in a statement. "Excused absences include illness (with a note from a medical provider), death in the family, jury duty, catastrophic events or city-wide weather disasters. Each team member is allowed up to five unexcused absences or 'points,' in a six-month period. No singular attendance event would cause a team member to be separated, and excused absences are not included in the 'points' system. Team members approaching their limit of unexcused absences receive warnings and reminders, and those who exceed their limit are separated."

 
2014-02-05 08:43:57 PM

RyansPrivates: Read the policy again, city-wide weather disasters are supposed to  excusedabsences.



Here's how I fark:  I skip the articles, go directly to the comments, and do my best to infer the content and accuracy of the article from Farker comments.

Isn't that how everyone around here does it?
 
2014-02-05 08:45:18 PM

Mark Ratner: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: The only good thing about Whole Foods is the employees. Corporate sucks, and the clientele by and large suck.

What about the food? Is it any good? I heard it's better than Partial Foods.


Well, the prices suck, so the food better be good.  Otherwise the store doesn't have anything going for it.
 
2014-02-05 08:45:43 PM

FizixJunkee: Gecko Gingrich: "Everyone has personal reasons or unexpected events that occasionally cause us to be late or miss work; recognizing this, our attendance policy in the Midwest region of Whole Foods Market is designed to provide support for our team members when these things happen. This includes a combination of excused and unexcused absences to provide the most flexibility," Phelps said in a statement. "Excused absences include illness (with a note from a medical provider), death in the family, jury duty, catastrophic events or city-wide weather disasters. Each team member is allowed up to five unexcused absences or 'points,' in a six-month period. No singular attendance event would cause a team member to be separated, and excused absences are not included in the 'points' system. Team members approaching their limit of unexcused absences receive warnings and reminders, and those who exceed their limit are separated."

read: this was not her fist time...or second time...or third...fourth...well, let's just say she has a habit of calling out


Our daughter's district canceled school three days last week for one winter storm.  That would be 60% of this woman's unexcused absences from work for ONE event (i.e., a storm that closed schools for multiple days).  In a week or so, there's President's Day, for which our daughter's school will be closed, but not our [the parents'] places of employment.  Fortunately, we have white-collar jobs with flexible schedules that allow us to work from home sometimes.

To me, the problem is that blue-collar jobs don't provide reasonable benefits to their employees, including a reasonable number of sick days and vacation days, not to mention health insurance and retirement benefits.


No... most places, one event can be up to 5 days without a doctor's note.
 
2014-02-05 08:48:24 PM

BunkyBrewman: Gecko Gingrich: "Everyone has personal reasons or unexpected events that occasionally cause us to be late or miss work; recognizing this, our attendance policy in the Midwest region of Whole Foods Market is designed to provide support for our team members when these things happen. This includes a combination of excused and unexcused absences to provide the most flexibility," Phelps said in a statement. "Excused absences include illness (with a note from a medical provider), death in the family, jury duty, catastrophic events or city-wide weather disasters. Each team member is allowed up to five unexcused absences or 'points,' in a six-month period. No singular attendance event would cause a team member to be separated, and excused absences are not included in the 'points' system. Team members approaching their limit of unexcused absences receive warnings and reminders, and those who exceed their limit are separated."

read: this was not her fist time...or second time...or third...fourth...well, let's just say she has a habit of calling out

Oopsie.

Those damn facts keep getting in the way of a good faux-outrage screechathon.


Umm, yeah.
I have a family member that kept their job at Whole Foods after landing in jail for heroin possession and missing 3 days work.

/true story.
 
2014-02-05 08:49:31 PM

Lsherm: Mark Ratner: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: The only good thing about Whole Foods is the employees. Corporate sucks, and the clientele by and large suck.

What about the food? Is it any good? I heard it's better than Partial Foods.

Well, the prices suck, so the food better be good.  Otherwise the store doesn't have anything going for it.


We have a whole foods here in Dallas.  The only reason I ever shop there is because they have a few beers on tap you can get in an actual glass and drink while you shop. Never spent more money than the times I do that. Cant tell you if it was the Belgian Ale loosening my wallet or the fact that it just cost so much more.  To be honest, I didn't care.
 
2014-02-05 08:54:53 PM
The free market will sort this out.

Americans: working the fewestdays off of the first world, and still fired over it.
 
2014-02-05 08:55:38 PM
When you have kids, especially a special needs kid, you have a backup that can watch your kid and at least one more backup ready just in case.
 
2014-02-05 08:57:29 PM
Back in the late 80's, the company I worked for instituted a policy of "flexibility" for parents, in the name of supporting Working Families.  It quickly devolved into one massive excuse for parents to be absent at the drop of a hat and push all of their work off on the single and non-parent workers.  Within six months, there was a revolt by those of us being forced to pick up the slack as our 'family-minded' co-workers massively abused the system, and the whole thing was scrapped.

Yeah, sucks you have a kid who needs you.  But the terms of your job are not different because you're a parent.
 
2014-02-05 09:03:22 PM

ongbok: RyansPrivates: Cyclometh: BunkyBrewman: Those damn facts

Point of order- those are not  facts, they are assertions about the company's policy, and they specifically did  not comment on this woman's situation.

It is entirely possible that she was terminated for violating that policy, but there are no facts here, just what people are asserting to be true. It's also possible she was not in violation of the policy (although less likely in my opinion).

The question is, in my mind, why is this an unexcused absence if that was the case.  From the company's own statement of policy (relevant parts bolded):

...excused absences include illness (with a note from a medical provider), death in the family, jury duty, catastrophic events or city-wide weather disasters. Each team member is allowed up to five unexcused absences or 'points,' in a six-month period.

Why is this counted as an unexcused absence?

Because the state or the city didn't declare a state of emergency. Just because CPS calls a snow day doesn't mean it is a city wide weather disaster.

To tell you the truth, this sounds like she was somebody they wanted to get rid of for whatever reason, and her calling in put her to the point, per her employment contract with the company, that they could fire her.


Nah, in retail they just schedule you for so few hours that you quit.
 
2014-02-05 09:03:35 PM
Yeah, weather in Chicago has been horrible this year, and CPS has had two snow days.  But that doesn't mean it was a city-wide weather emergency, since everything was still open and public transit was still running normally.

Basically, it's pretty clear from their policy that she was making a habit of unexcused absences.  Can't say I blame her, since I've also been tempted to play hooky to avoid the trudge to work through the snow, but I also can't blame the company for replacing someone who leaves them understaffed with no warning once a month on average.  There's a line out the door of people looking for a job in the city who would be happy to show up when scheduled.  I don't believe for a minute, having worked retail, that other companies have been "more understanding" of calling in with no notice more than once or twice a year.

And she wants "back pay"...   how does that work?  Is she under the impression that she's salaried?

That said, hopefully she finds new work soon - perhaps with a better commute or a more flexible schedule.
 
2014-02-05 09:04:14 PM
And now  we know where the gender pay gap comes from.
 
2014-02-05 09:06:00 PM

FizixJunkee: gar1013: Where's the kid's father?

Maybe he couldn't get off work?


It mentioned she was a single mom, and no mention was made of attempting to see if the father could help out.
 
2014-02-05 09:07:01 PM

Nonrepeating Rotating Binary: Back in the late 80's, the company I worked for instituted a policy of "flexibility" for parents, in the name of supporting Working Families.  It quickly devolved into one massive excuse for parents to be absent at the drop of a hat and push all of their work off on the single and non-parent workers.  Within six months, there was a revolt by those of us being forced to pick up the slack as our 'family-minded' co-workers massively abused the system, and the whole thing was scrapped.

Yeah, sucks you have a kid who needs you.  But the terms of your job are not different because you're a parent.


It's really a shiatty situation, and this woman need help - but her employer isn't a charity or welfare agency - they can't deal with this, they sell groceries. By the way - where's daddy? Is she raising this child alone, and if so, why?
But if she can't really work and care for her child properly, she has to accept that and move forward.
 
2014-02-05 09:07:52 PM

jst3p: And now  we know where the gender pay gap comes from.


And you think that men in retail work don't call off/miss work enough to get fired?

Oh right, men are always responsible workers and never use the family excuse when they call off for a day.  You should let the men in my office know, if you can catch them before they leave early because they "have to get home to their kids."

/both genders are full of assholes
 
2014-02-05 09:08:07 PM
Anyone who's ever managed large groups of hourly service employees will tell you there's always at least one that will take every single opportunity to show up late, leave early, or just not come in.  Some have kids they use as constant excuses, others have perpetual "car trouble", and so forth.  These people ALWAYS leave everyone else in a tight spot and even if they apologize they still keep doing it.

Not saying this person in tfa is like that, but I understand if she was and they just got tired of it.  If she really was an MVP type of employee and normally reliable they probably wouldn't have canned her.
 
2014-02-05 09:08:56 PM

jst3p: Nah, in retail they just schedule you for so few hours that you quit.


During college, I worked at a coffee shop.  The guy who owned it would do just that when he wanted to get rid of an employee: cut their hours so ridiculously---e.g., from full-time 40 hours/week down to less than 5 hours/week---that they had no choice but to quit.

Bonus: He didn't have to pay unemployment!

/guess which political party he aligned himself with
 
2014-02-05 09:10:11 PM

Freudian_slipknot: jst3p: And now  we know where the gender pay gap comes from.

And you think that men in retail work don't call off/miss work enough to get fired?

Oh right, men are always responsible workers and never use the family excuse when they call off for a day.  You should let the men in my office know, if you can catch them before they leave early because they "have to get home to their kids."

/both genders are full of assholes


No, the men abandon their responsibilities completely and leave women to be single moms.
 
2014-02-05 09:11:22 PM

FizixJunkee: jst3p: Nah, in retail they just schedule you for so few hours that you quit.

During college, I worked at a coffee shop.  The guy who owned it would do just that when he wanted to get rid of an employee: cut their hours so ridiculously---e.g., from full-time 40 hours/week down to less than 5 hours/week---that they had no choice but to quit.

Bonus: He didn't have to pay unemployment!

/guess which political party he aligned himself with


I worked at Radio Shack for six years. The only person I ever saw fired was for theft. The rest went out just as you described.
 
2014-02-05 09:11:46 PM
"Excused absences include illness (with a note from a medical provider)"

God that shiat pisses me right the fark off.  If you're too sick to go to work for a day or two, stay the fark home and get better.  Goddamn doctors will tell you the same thing.

If I'm too sick to go to work, the very last thing I want to do is go out to some doctor's office, fill out paperwork, then sit around and wait forever with other sick people only to be told I should go home and get some rest.  I would much rather go to work and pass my illness on to the farking retards that implement such a policy.

Thank farking god I don't have to do that stupid shiat where I work.

/ Oh, and TFA is a non-story
 
2014-02-05 09:11:47 PM

lordjupiter: others have perpetual "car trouble", and so forth.


Did you pay them enough to buy a good-quality reliable car and keep it well-maintained?
 
2014-02-05 09:12:45 PM

jso2897: Nonrepeating Rotating Binary: Back in the late 80's, the company I worked for instituted a policy of "flexibility" for parents, in the name of supporting Working Families.  It quickly devolved into one massive excuse for parents to be absent at the drop of a hat and push all of their work off on the single and non-parent workers.  Within six months, there was a revolt by those of us being forced to pick up the slack as our 'family-minded' co-workers massively abused the system, and the whole thing was scrapped.

Yeah, sucks you have a kid who needs you.  But the terms of your job are not different because you're a parent.

It's really a shiatty situation, and this woman need help - but her employer isn't a charity or welfare agency - they can't deal with this, they sell groceries. By the way - where's daddy? Is she raising this child alone, and if so, why?
But if she can't really work and care for her child properly, she has to accept that and move forward.


To expand on the thought: Requiring special accommodations for single parents would discourage employers from retaining single parents as employees.
 
2014-02-05 09:13:23 PM

jst3p: Freudian_slipknot: jst3p: And now  we know where the gender pay gap comes from.

And you think that men in retail work don't call off/miss work enough to get fired?

Oh right, men are always responsible workers and never use the family excuse when they call off for a day.  You should let the men in my office know, if you can catch them before they leave early because they "have to get home to their kids."

/both genders are full of assholes

No, the men abandon their responsibilities completely and leave women to be single moms.


How's little Norman doing, Ms. Bates?
 
2014-02-05 09:13:34 PM

FizixJunkee: lordjupiter: others have perpetual "car trouble", and so forth.

Did you pay them enough to buy a good-quality reliable car and keep it well-maintained?


Actually, yes.

Why do you think "car trouble" was in quotes, Mr. Nader?
 
2014-02-05 09:15:46 PM

FizixJunkee: jst3p: Nah, in retail they just schedule you for so few hours that you quit.

During college, I worked at a coffee shop.  The guy who owned it would do just that when he wanted to get rid of an employee: cut their hours so ridiculously---e.g., from full-time 40 hours/week down to less than 5 hours/week---that they had no choice but to quit.

Bonus: He didn't have to pay unemployment!

/guess which political party he aligned himself with


Whole Foods is unionized, so they probably have provisions against that.
 
2014-02-05 09:18:03 PM

JSam21: No... most places, one event can be up to 5 days without a doctor's note.


Yeah, exactly.  The Whole Food's policy sounds a lot like Walmart's - you can get up to five absences in a rolling six month period, the sixth one will result in termination.  But under Walmart's policy, three consecutive days counts as a single absence, so if, for example, you have the flu for a couple of days, it's only going to count against you once.  I'd be surprised if Whole Foods didn't have a similar setup.  And they don't just spring it on you - at Walmart, you get a "personal discussion" at three absences, you're officially disciplined at four and then again at five.  If you're in attendance trouble, you already know you're in trouble well before you get fired for it.  Most companies are pretty hardcore about documenting those conversations; I'd be surprised if Whole Foods isn't.

Here's another possibility - maybe she's one of those people who's late all the time.  That's another quirk to the Walmart policy.  Three unexcused "incomplete shifts" (arriving more than fifteen minutes late or leaving more than ten minutes early) count as one absence.  Given that Whole Foods has a "points" system, I would guess you can accumulate points in a similar way.  In my experience, the people who are most surprised to get in trouble for attendance violations are the ones who never miss work, but habitually show up late.

I've been a single mom to a special needs child for whom day care was not always a viable option.  It sucks.  I have sympathy for anyone in that situation; I don't think most people even realize how shiatty it is when your child care options are that limited.  I've also never been in attendance trouble at work.  Her sixth absence may have been for a legit reason, but I'd bet anything she was abusing the policy at some point before that.
 
2014-02-05 09:21:50 PM

Revek: Gecko Gingrich: "Everyone has personal reasons or unexpected events that occasionally cause us to be late or miss work; recognizing this, our attendance policy in the Midwest region of Whole Foods Market is designed to provide support for our team members when these things happen. This includes a combination of excused and unexcused absences to provide the most flexibility," Phelps said in a statement. "Excused absences include illness (with a note from a medical provider), death in the family, jury duty, catastrophic events or city-wide weather disasters. Each team member is allowed up to five unexcused absences or 'points,' in a six-month period. No singular attendance event would cause a team member to be separated, and excused absences are not included in the 'points' system. Team members approaching their limit of unexcused absences receive warnings and reminders, and those who exceed their limit are separated."

read: this was not her fist time...or second time...or third...fourth...well, let's just say she has a habit of calling out

Yeah because she has a kid who needs to be taken care of and probably not one daycare that will.  I always imagine someone like you at 80 alone and just wishing someone cared enough to end your life because your to much of a coward to do it yourself.


Roe V Wade. She made a choice.
 
2014-02-05 09:22:35 PM

Atomic Spunk: fusillade762: I'd also like to know why "special needs" is in quotation marks.

Because the author doesn't really believe that the child is retarded.
[youshouldwriteaboutthat.files.wordpress.com image 480x360]


Green quarter?
 
2014-02-05 09:25:45 PM

jso2897: Nonrepeating Rotating Binary: Back in the late 80's, the company I worked for instituted a policy of "flexibility" for parents, in the name of supporting Working Families.  It quickly devolved into one massive excuse for parents to be absent at the drop of a hat and push all of their work off on the single and non-parent workers.  Within six months, there was a revolt by those of us being forced to pick up the slack as our 'family-minded' co-workers massively abused the system, and the whole thing was scrapped.

Yeah, sucks you have a kid who needs you.  But the terms of your job are not different because you're a parent.

It's really a shiatty situation, and this woman need help - but her employer isn't a charity or welfare agency - they can't deal with this, they sell groceries. By the way - where's daddy? Is she raising this child alone, and if so, why?
But if she can't really work and care for her child properly, she has to accept that and move forward.


Horseshiat.

We have high unemployment. Plenty of folks would take a part time average 20 hours jpb and accept being called in on her family days.

Where is daddy? Probably has a job too. But way to play the welfare stereotype...
 
2014-02-05 09:27:30 PM

Paintbox: Roe V Wade. She made a choice.


What if the father of the kid didn't want her to get an abortion?
 
2014-02-05 09:29:02 PM
You were fired for absence. Not just the last one you're talking about though. All of them. Lets go through and talk about all of them honey.
 
2014-02-05 09:32:27 PM
The Whole Foods in my area has beer tasting every Monday and wine tastings every Friday. Comes with a little plate of food that the employee serving the drink had made earlier that day. All of them seem very happy with their job and are some of the friendliest workers at any place I've ever seen. Plus it's only $5. If you have to leave work or take too many days off you have a child care problem. It's not the job of the business to take care of your kids.
 
2014-02-05 09:35:37 PM

fusillade762: gopher321: Gecko Gingrich: "Everyone has personal reasons or unexpected events that occasionally cause us to be late or miss work; recognizing this, our attendance policy in the Midwest region of Whole Foods Market is designed to provide support for our team members when these things happen. This includes a combination of excused and unexcused absences to provide the most flexibility," Phelps said in a statement. "Excused absences include illness (with a note from a medical provider), death in the family, jury duty, catastrophic events or city-wide weather disasters. Each team member is allowed up to five unexcused absences or 'points,' in a six-month period. No singular attendance event would cause a team member to be separated, and excused absences are not included in the 'points' system. Team members approaching their limit of unexcused absences receive warnings and reminders, and those who exceed their limit are separated."

read: this was not her fist time...or second time...or third...fourth...well, let's just say she has a habit of calling out

THIS

/non story

Seconded. I'd also like to know why "special needs" is in quotation marks.


He has gluten allergy and is piqued by Judge Wapner?
 
2014-02-05 09:36:53 PM

lordjupiter: Anyone who's ever managed large groups of hourly service employees will tell you there's always at least one that will take every single opportunity to show up late, leave early, or just not come in.  Some have kids they use as constant excuses, others have perpetual "car trouble", and so forth.  These people ALWAYS leave everyone else in a tight spot and even if they apologize they still keep doing it.


Used to work at a place where you didn't get any points until you were 10 minutes late.  Had a co-worker who was 5-9 minutes late every farking day.  Always some kind of excuse.  Alley was blocked, accident on the freeway, power went out, etc.  As I told him; "You're 5-9 minutes late every day.  Every Day.  That means you're making a choice not to be here on time.  Your excuses are bullshiat, and you need to set your alarm 15 minutes earlier."  Of course, about every 1-2 weeks something would happen to make him more than 10 minutes late and he accumulated points right up to a final notice, at which time he tried to play the "No one ever told me I could be fired for this!" card.  It didn't work.  Then he started to play the FLMA card, for vague 'medical issues', and being out for days and weeks at a time.  He still farked that up to the point of being fired.  (Even FLMA has it's limits)

In the mean time, I had moved on to a much better job.  He wanted in and I wouldn't give him a reference, but he managed to get an interview anyway.  He told them in the interview that he had been fired for absenteeism.  From pretty much every job he'd ever had.

Then was shocked!  SHOCKED I TELL YOU! That they straight up told him they weren't interested.

www.fybertech.com
 
2014-02-05 09:38:51 PM
You mean " asswhole foods"  amirite?
 
2014-02-05 09:41:34 PM

RyansPrivates: Cyclometh: BunkyBrewman: Those damn facts

Point of order- those are not  facts, they are assertions about the company's policy, and they specifically did  not comment on this woman's situation.

It is entirely possible that she was terminated for violating that policy, but there are no facts here, just what people are asserting to be true. It's also possible she was not in violation of the policy (although less likely in my opinion).

The question is, in my mind, why is this an unexcused absence if that was the case.  From the company's own statement of policy (relevant parts bolded):

...excused absences include illness (with a note from a medical provider), death in the family, jury duty, catastrophic events or city-wide weather disasters. Each team member is allowed up to five unexcused absences or 'points,' in a six-month period.

Why is this counted as an unexcused absence?


Was the city closed? Did the city declare all streets/roads closed? That is a city-wide emergency.
 
2014-02-05 09:42:39 PM
This thread...

It's like every sexless  Aspergerkid that ever put a gun on his screen saver at my job, and tried to talk about women during lunch....


/comedy gold
 
2014-02-05 09:43:10 PM

Nonrepeating Rotating Binary: Back in the late 80's, the company I worked for instituted a policy of "flexibility" for parents, in the name of supporting Working Families.  It quickly devolved into one massive excuse for parents to be absent at the drop of a hat and push all of their work off on the single and non-parent workers.  Within six months, there was a revolt by those of us being forced to pick up the slack as our 'family-minded' co-workers massively abused the system, and the whole thing was scrapped.

Yeah, sucks you have a kid who needs you.  But the terms of your job are not different because you're a parent.


The single people are worse than the parents at my job. Every Monday, half of them are gone. One has called in crazy and been out on FMLA four out of five days for the last three weeks. Another one is fat and lazy, and catches every germ that goes around.
My anecdote is superior to your anecdote.


/neener
 
2014-02-05 09:45:27 PM

FizixJunkee: Paintbox: Roe V Wade. She made a choice.

What if the father of the kid didn't want her to get an abortion?


I'm no legal guru, just a drunk, with a vasectomy.
However, I don't believe the "father" has any input as to whether she carries the child full term.
 
2014-02-05 09:48:41 PM
I'm never on the right side of these. Ever. I should feel compassion but I keep wondering about the other absences. Does she expect to get more unexcused absences than those women who don't have special needs children? or single people with their own set of things to do?
 
2014-02-05 09:51:37 PM

FizixJunkee: jst3p: Nah, in retail they just schedule you for so few hours that you quit.

During college, I worked at a coffee shop.  The guy who owned it would do just that when he wanted to get rid of an employee: cut their hours so ridiculously---e.g., from full-time 40 hours/week down to less than 5 hours/week---that they had no choice but to quit.

Bonus: He didn't have to pay unemployment!

/guess which political party he aligned himself with


That's pretty common practice in food & beverage and retail. Anyone who works in those fields knows when that happens, the writing is on the wall and to start looking for a new job. Maybe you prefer firing people outright with no warning? At least you give people a chance to quit rather than explaining why they were fired. Unless you catch them doing something awful like stealing or showing up drunk, of course.
 
2014-02-05 09:51:42 PM

jayphat: RyansPrivates: Cyclometh: BunkyBrewman: Those damn facts

Point of order- those are not  facts, they are assertions about the company's policy, and they specifically did  not comment on this woman's situation.

It is entirely possible that she was terminated for violating that policy, but there are no facts here, just what people are asserting to be true. It's also possible she was not in violation of the policy (although less likely in my opinion).

The question is, in my mind, why is this an unexcused absence if that was the case.  From the company's own statement of policy (relevant parts bolded):

...excused absences include illness (with a note from a medical provider), death in the family, jury duty, catastrophic events or city-wide weather disasters. Each team member is allowed up to five unexcused absences or 'points,' in a six-month period.

Why is this counted as an unexcused absence?

Was the city closed? Did the city declare all streets/roads closed? That is a city-wide emergency.


How about if a business doesn't want two-working-parent families in its employ, it pay enough that a single parent can be devoted to the job while a stay at home one covers all these things?

I'm not upset at whole foods: it does what every other business does. And maybe this person was a chronic user of leave and deserved the firing. No article is going to have that info.

But a two worker family not having on-call day care for snow days is something employers should expect.

We cheer the way employers screw employees, call for lower welfare, then biatch about poor people making decisions they have to make? That is complete shiat.
 
2014-02-05 09:51:48 PM

El Dudereno: Nonrepeating Rotating Binary: Back in the late 80's, the company I worked for instituted a policy of "flexibility" for parents, in the name of supporting Working Families.  It quickly devolved into one massive excuse for parents to be absent at the drop of a hat and push all of their work off on the single and non-parent workers.  Within six months, there was a revolt by those of us being forced to pick up the slack as our 'family-minded' co-workers massively abused the system, and the whole thing was scrapped.

Yeah, sucks you have a kid who needs you.  But the terms of your job are not different because you're a parent.

The single people are worse than the parents at my job. Every Monday, half of them are gone. One has called in crazy and been out on FMLA four out of five days for the last three weeks. Another one is fat and lazy, and catches every germ that goes around.
My anecdote is superior to your anecdote.


/neener


The 20-something single guy who everyone knows is a party boy...we know you don't have some 24 hour stomach bug or food poisoning.  We weren't born yesterday, dude.  Get well from the Beer Flu.
 
2014-02-05 09:52:44 PM

El Dudereno: Nonrepeating Rotating Binary: Back in the late 80's, the company I worked for instituted a policy of "flexibility" for parents, in the name of supporting Working Families.  It quickly devolved into one massive excuse for parents to be absent at the drop of a hat and push all of their work off on the single and non-parent workers.  Within six months, there was a revolt by those of us being forced to pick up the slack as our 'family-minded' co-workers massively abused the system, and the whole thing was scrapped.

Yeah, sucks you have a kid who needs you.  But the terms of your job are not different because you're a parent.

The single people are worse than the parents at my job. Every Monday, half of them are gone. One has called in crazy and been out on FMLA four out of five days for the last three weeks. Another one is fat and lazy, and catches every germ that goes around.
My anecdote is superior to your anecdote.


/neener


Childless person here and I've picked up the slack for many a parent in my department before.  Also the occasional lazy fellow childless coworker.

Luckily I am compensated accordingly with good raises every year and some fat bonuses while the rest of my coworkers biatch about how their little 2% raise didn't even cover the increased cost of their health bennies.
 
2014-02-05 09:55:38 PM

HotIgneous Intruder: "Unexcused absence" WTF.
What is this, high school?
Does she need a note from her mommy as well?


It may surprise you to learn that many adults working in retail are unreliable, and are the reason these policies exist.
 
2014-02-05 09:58:02 PM
What I'm taking away from this thread is my decision to never have kids was one of the best life choices I've ever made.
 
2014-02-05 10:03:40 PM

BigOle8point: jst3p: Freudian_slipknot: jst3p: And now  we know where the gender pay gap comes from.

And you think that men in retail work don't call off/miss work enough to get fired?

Oh right, men are always responsible workers and never use the family excuse when they call off for a day.  You should let the men in my office know, if you can catch them before they leave early because they "have to get home to their kids."

/both genders are full of assholes

No, the men abandon their responsibilities completely and leave women to be single moms.

How's little Norman doing, Ms. Bates?


Mother is fine. Just fine.
 
2014-02-05 10:04:40 PM

Nonrepeating Rotating Binary: lordjupiter: Anyone who's ever managed large groups of hourly service employees will tell you there's always at least one that will take every single opportunity to show up late, leave early, or just not come in.  Some have kids they use as constant excuses, others have perpetual "car trouble", and so forth.  These people ALWAYS leave everyone else in a tight spot and even if they apologize they still keep doing it.

Used to work at a place where you didn't get any points until you were 10 minutes late.  Had a co-worker who was 5-9 minutes late every farking day.  Always some kind of excuse.  Alley was blocked, accident on the freeway, power went out, etc.  As I told him; "You're 5-9 minutes late every day.  Every Day.  That means you're making a choice not to be here on time.  Your excuses are bullshiat, and you need to set your alarm 15 minutes earlier."  Of course, about every 1-2 weeks something would happen to make him more than 10 minutes late and he accumulated points right up to a final notice, at which time he tried to play the "No one ever told me I could be fired for this!" card.  It didn't work.  Then he started to play the FLMA card, for vague 'medical issues', and being out for days and weeks at a time.  He still farked that up to the point of being fired.  (Even FLMA has it's limits)

In the mean time, I had moved on to a much better job.  He wanted in and I wouldn't give him a reference, but he managed to get an interview anyway.  He told them in the interview that he had been fired for absenteeism.  From pretty much every job he'd ever had.

Then was shocked!  SHOCKED I TELL YOU! That they straight up told him they weren't interested.


Yeah our time clock software rounds up the last 7 minutes of the hour. I came across several people who clocked out at 4:53 every day just because "hey free 7 minutes". Seems like such a stupid risk to take when the reviewers see the actual time even though the payroll software counts 4:53 as 5:00
 
2014-02-05 10:05:54 PM

Nabb1: FizixJunkee: jst3p: Nah, in retail they just schedule you for so few hours that you quit.

During college, I worked at a coffee shop.  The guy who owned it would do just that when he wanted to get rid of an employee: cut their hours so ridiculously---e.g., from full-time 40 hours/week down to less than 5 hours/week---that they had no choice but to quit.

Bonus: He didn't have to pay unemployment!

/guess which political party he aligned himself with

That's pretty common practice in food & beverage and retail. Anyone who works in those fields knows when that happens, the writing is on the wall and to start looking for a new job. Maybe you prefer firing people outright with no warning? At least you give people a chance to quit rather than explaining why they were fired. Unless you catch them doing something awful like stealing or showing up drunk, of course.


I would rather be fired and get umemployment while finding another job.

My last restaurant job played all those games. I took a week off with months of advance notice and they cut my hours after, from 40 to 25ish. Which meant 35after I picked up shifts for the folks my boss shifted my hours to.

This occurred every year after 4th of july when my extended family all hits the lake. To add insult to injury, that was a bad week for business anyways. I mean like work open to close on the 4th and get 40 bucks slow.
 
2014-02-05 10:06:02 PM
Single moms do deserve *some* leniency but not to the point that it's a continuous burden to the company and the employees who have to cover for them. Your snowflake shouldn't be your employer's problem.
 
2014-02-05 10:10:48 PM
Illinois is full of prices. I don't know why, I had to leave.
 
2014-02-05 10:10:51 PM

moike: What I'm taking away from this thread is my decision to never have kids was one of the best life choices I've ever made.


Same here.
 
2014-02-05 10:12:00 PM

bigdog1960: Illinois is full of prices. I don't know why, I had to leave.


Pricks damn auto correct
 
2014-02-05 10:12:12 PM

baorao: Nonrepeating Rotating Binary: lordjupiter: Anyone who's ever managed large groups of hourly service employees will tell you there's always at least one that will take every single opportunity to show up late, leave early, or just not come in.  Some have kids they use as constant excuses, others have perpetual "car trouble", and so forth.  These people ALWAYS leave everyone else in a tight spot and even if they apologize they still keep doing it.

Used to work at a place where you didn't get any points until you were 10 minutes late.  Had a co-worker who was 5-9 minutes late every farking day.  Always some kind of excuse.  Alley was blocked, accident on the freeway, power went out, etc.  As I told him; "You're 5-9 minutes late every day.  Every Day.  That means you're making a choice not to be here on time.  Your excuses are bullshiat, and you need to set your alarm 15 minutes earlier."  Of course, about every 1-2 weeks something would happen to make him more than 10 minutes late and he accumulated points right up to a final notice, at which time he tried to play the "No one ever told me I could be fired for this!" card.  It didn't work.  Then he started to play the FLMA card, for vague 'medical issues', and being out for days and weeks at a time.  He still farked that up to the point of being fired.  (Even FLMA has it's limits)

In the mean time, I had moved on to a much better job.  He wanted in and I wouldn't give him a reference, but he managed to get an interview anyway.  He told them in the interview that he had been fired for absenteeism.  From pretty much every job he'd ever had.

Then was shocked!  SHOCKED I TELL YOU! That they straight up told him they weren't interested.

Yeah our time clock software rounds up the last 7 minutes of the hour. I came across several people who clocked out at 4:53 every day just because "hey free 7 minutes". Seems like such a stupid risk to take when the reviewers see the actual time even though the payroll software counts 4:5 ...


This is more common than you might think.  I've seen guys doing that on both ends, and when you round to 15 minute blocks that adds up to a free half hour per day, which can really screw up your budget and put guys into overtime if you don't catch it.

The other option, of course, is to not consider the shift to have started or ended except at the SCHEDULED time, and punching the clock is no different than signing in or signing out to prove you were there.  For example you can punch at 7:55am to show you're "in" but your shift starts at 8am and that's when you're expected to begin work, and start getting paid.  This requires a lot of oversight and manual review/entry.

A timeclock is not a legal document or proof of work.  Especially if someone is punching for a friend (which also happens).
 
2014-02-05 10:15:43 PM

Smackledorfer: Nabb1: FizixJunkee: jst3p: Nah, in retail they just schedule you for so few hours that you quit.

During college, I worked at a coffee shop.  The guy who owned it would do just that when he wanted to get rid of an employee: cut their hours so ridiculously---e.g., from full-time 40 hours/week down to less than 5 hours/week---that they had no choice but to quit.

Bonus: He didn't have to pay unemployment!

/guess which political party he aligned himself with

That's pretty common practice in food & beverage and retail. Anyone who works in those fields knows when that happens, the writing is on the wall and to start looking for a new job. Maybe you prefer firing people outright with no warning? At least you give people a chance to quit rather than explaining why they were fired. Unless you catch them doing something awful like stealing or showing up drunk, of course.

I would rather be fired and get umemployment while finding another job.

My last restaurant job played all those games. I took a week off with months of advance notice and they cut my hours after, from 40 to 25ish. Which meant 35after I picked up shifts for the folks my boss shifted my hours to.

This occurred every year after 4th of july when my extended family all hits the lake. To add insult to injury, that was a bad week for business anyways. I mean like work open to close on the 4th and get 40 bucks slow.


If it really is a slow day and they didn't need the extra help then you're definitely just getting cut because someone's pissed they or their friends had to work the holiday when you didn't.  But on the flip side, some guys do this ever year for nearly every  holiday, and think they get "dibs" by putting in months early.  Newp.  All requests subject to review, holiday work was part of the job when you were hired, etc.  (not saying your job was like that, but many are).
 
2014-02-05 10:16:13 PM

AutumnWind: moike: What I'm taking away from this thread is my decision to never have kids was one of the best life choices I've ever made.

Same here.


They are a lot of fun if you can afford them. My girlfriend and I are both in pretty good tax brackets, we don't face problems like this.
 
2014-02-05 10:17:39 PM

Atomic Spunk: fusillade762: I'd also like to know why "special needs" is in quotation marks.

Because the author doesn't really believe that the child is retarded.
[youshouldwriteaboutthat.files.wordpress.com image 480x360]


Chicken pot, chicken pot, chicken pot pie?

/What are those, D-cups?
 
2014-02-05 10:21:32 PM

Smackledorfer: jso2897: Nonrepeating Rotating Binary: Back in the late 80's, the company I worked for instituted a policy of "flexibility" for parents, in the name of supporting Working Families.  It quickly devolved into one massive excuse for parents to be absent at the drop of a hat and push all of their work off on the single and non-parent workers.  Within six months, there was a revolt by those of us being forced to pick up the slack as our 'family-minded' co-workers massively abused the system, and the whole thing was scrapped.

Yeah, sucks you have a kid who needs you.  But the terms of your job are not different because you're a parent.

It's really a shiatty situation, and this woman need help - but her employer isn't a charity or welfare agency - they can't deal with this, they sell groceries. By the way - where's daddy? Is she raising this child alone, and if so, why?
But if she can't really work and care for her child properly, she has to accept that and move forward.

Horseshiat.

We have high unemployment. Plenty of folks would take a part time average 20 hours jpb and accept being called in on her family days.

Where is daddy? Probably has a job too. But way to play the welfare stereotype...


I would have no problem giving her welfare - if Dad has flown the coop and left her high and dry, then society has to care for her and her kid, and I'm more than happy to pay my share. But the solution to this is not for her employer to try to cover for society failing to help her.
The idea that she must work to justify her and her child's existence, even if the kid's health problems make it impossible for her to hold down a job reliably, is the real problem here. At some point soon, we are going to have to look at the fact that worker productivity increases and market changes have put us at the point where we are going to examine the old biblical economic model. There will not be jobs for everybody again. Ever. And if we can't cure ourselves of our irrational hatred of the idea of a "welfare state", then we'd better think up another name to call it - because we are there, now.
 
2014-02-05 10:22:28 PM

bigdog1960: bigdog1960: Illinois is full of prices. I don't know why, I had to leave.

Pricks damn auto correct


Say what you will about Illinois pricks - at least they have an ethos.
 
2014-02-05 10:27:00 PM

baorao: Nonrepeating Rotating Binary: lordjupiter: Anyone who's ever managed large groups of hourly service employees will tell you there's always at least one that will take every single opportunity to show up late, leave early, or just not come in.  Some have kids they use as constant excuses, others have perpetual "car trouble", and so forth.  These people ALWAYS leave everyone else in a tight spot and even if they apologize they still keep doing it.

Used to work at a place where you didn't get any points until you were 10 minutes late.  Had a co-worker who was 5-9 minutes late every farking day.  Always some kind of excuse.  Alley was blocked, accident on the freeway, power went out, etc.  As I told him; "You're 5-9 minutes late every day.  Every Day.  That means you're making a choice not to be here on time.  Your excuses are bullshiat, and you need to set your alarm 15 minutes earlier."  Of course, about every 1-2 weeks something would happen to make him more than 10 minutes late and he accumulated points right up to a final notice, at which time he tried to play the "No one ever told me I could be fired for this!" card.  It didn't work.  Then he started to play the FLMA card, for vague 'medical issues', and being out for days and weeks at a time.  He still farked that up to the point of being fired.  (Even FLMA has it's limits)

In the mean time, I had moved on to a much better job.  He wanted in and I wouldn't give him a reference, but he managed to get an interview anyway.  He told them in the interview that he had been fired for absenteeism.  From pretty much every job he'd ever had.

Then was shocked!  SHOCKED I TELL YOU! That they straight up told him they weren't interested.

Yeah our time clock software rounds up the last 7 minutes of the hour. I came across several people who clocked out at 4:53 every day just because "hey free 7 minutes". Seems like such a stupid risk to take when the reviewers see the actual time even though the payroll software counts 4:53 as 5:00


It really depends on the company and the degree of abuse. Someone leaving five minutes before five isn't a major concern. The douchebags who are obviously stealing time are the major problems and they're easy to spot.
 
2014-02-05 10:27:21 PM
FTA: She added: "With me having a son, there should be a policy instilled where working single mothers need a little bit of leniency and understanding, and I feel that just didn't happen to me."

Sorry, Obama is demanding that we close the wage gap. Not going to get there with women working even fewer hours than they already do.
 
2014-02-05 10:28:19 PM
One would think that store manager would be glade that they didn't have to pay the hours on what will clearly be a dead day. Or is it just a cold heartless system auto-terms hourly worker for adhering to draconian attendance policies?
 
2014-02-05 10:30:38 PM

fusillade762: Seconded. I'd also like to know why "special needs" is in quotation marks.


We don't know how special those needs are.  Maybe they weren't special at all?  Or maybe they weren't really needs, but just "special preferences".  For instance I like my iced tea without lemon -- it's special, but more of a preference than a need.
 
2014-02-05 10:31:23 PM

overfienduglar: One would think that store manager would be glade that they didn't have to pay the hours on what will clearly be a dead day. Or is it just a cold heartless system auto-terms hourly worker for adhering to draconian attendance policies?


Obviously you've never worked retail food during a snow storm. Doesn't matter if there is 15 farking feet of snow and the state has declared all roads closed or you go to jail, they pack the grocery store because they got shiat to buy and you better be open or you're getting a customer complaint.
 
2014-02-05 10:32:05 PM

overfienduglar: One would think that store manager would be glade that they didn't have to pay the hours on what will clearly be a dead day.


www.glade.com
 
2014-02-05 10:37:27 PM
Willie L: We are hearing only one side of this story.  Something tells me that this was simply the straw that broke the camels back.  No one fires a person for missing one day's work.  The hiring process takes too much effort to just fire employees indiscriminately.

I used to work at a place that would fire a person for missing one day's work. The GM didn't seem to understand costs unless it was something that you literally had to pay money for. So one day he declared that no one could order white-out because "I'm not paying for white-out when people can just cross it out or do it over." He literally didn't see having people "do it over" as a cost or waste.

There was a bad snowstorm and he said that anyone who called in because of the storm would get fired---and two people did get fired. There was a rule that if you couldn't make it in, you had to call within 30 minutes of when you were supposed to be there. So there was a guy who neglected to reset his alarm after a 3-day weekend, called in about 50 after he was supposed to be there and got fired. There was a woman who was having an emotional meltdown because her husband had left her, she didn't call in until lunch time, she got fired.

And none of these were cases where they were looking to get rid of a bad employee. It was this "we own you" attitude (I was told that multiple times) and there could be no allowances for being human, having a life, etc. I was once late because I was in bad traffic due to an acciden and was told that wasn't a valid excuse, I should have left the house earlier. I wasn't sure if I was supposed to be psychic and know about the accident ahead of time or allow an extra 40 minutes every day in case there was an accident.
 
2014-02-05 10:41:12 PM

jso2897: Smackledorfer: jso2897: Nonrepeating Rotating Binary: Back in the late 80's, the company I worked for instituted a policy of "flexibility" for parents, in the name of supporting Working Families.  It quickly devolved into one massive excuse for parents to be absent at the drop of a hat and push all of their work off on the single and non-parent workers.  Within six months, there was a revolt by those of us being forced to pick up the slack as our 'family-minded' co-workers massively abused the system, and the whole thing was scrapped.

Yeah, sucks you have a kid who needs you.  But the terms of your job are not different because you're a parent.

It's really a shiatty situation, and this woman need help - but her employer isn't a charity or welfare agency - they can't deal with this, they sell groceries. By the way - where's daddy? Is she raising this child alone, and if so, why?
But if she can't really work and care for her child properly, she has to accept that and move forward.

Horseshiat.

We have high unemployment. Plenty of folks would take a part time average 20 hours jpb and accept being called in on her family days.

Where is daddy? Probably has a job too. But way to play the welfare stereotype...

I would have no problem giving her welfare - if Dad has flown the coop and left her high and dry, then society has to care for her and her kid, and I'm more than happy to pay my share. But the solution to this is not for her employer to try to cover for society failing to help her.
The idea that she must work to justify her and her child's existence, even if the kid's health problems make it impossible for her to hold down a job reliably, is the real problem here. At some point soon, we are going to have to look at the fact that worker productivity increases and market changes have put us at the point where we are going to examine the old biblical economic model. There will not be jobs for everybody again. Ever. And if we can't cure ourselves of our irrational hatred of the idea of a "welfare state", then we'd better think up another name to call it - because we are there, now.


Fair enough.
 
2014-02-05 10:41:42 PM

Phins: Willie L: We are hearing only one side of this story.  Something tells me that this was simply the straw that broke the camels back.  No one fires a person for missing one day's work.  The hiring process takes too much effort to just fire employees indiscriminately.

I used to work at a place that would fire a person for missing one day's work. The GM didn't seem to understand costs unless it was something that you literally had to pay money for. So one day he declared that no one could order white-out because "I'm not paying for white-out when people can just cross it out or do it over." He literally didn't see having people "do it over" as a cost or waste.

There was a bad snowstorm and he said that anyone who called in because of the storm would get fired---and two people did get fired. There was a rule that if you couldn't make it in, you had to call within 30 minutes of when you were supposed to be there. So there was a guy who neglected to reset his alarm after a 3-day weekend, called in about 50 after he was supposed to be there and got fired. There was a woman who was having an emotional meltdown because her husband had left her, she didn't call in until lunch time, she got fired.

And none of these were cases where they were looking to get rid of a bad employee. It was this "we own you" attitude (I was told that multiple times) and there could be no allowances for being human, having a life, etc. I was once late because I was in bad traffic due to an acciden and was told that wasn't a valid excuse, I should have left the house earlier. I wasn't sure if I was supposed to be psychic and know about the accident ahead of time or allow an extra 40 minutes every day in case there was an accident.



With such rigid policies, it would be fun to go around to all your coworkers homes at 2:00am and let the air out of all their tires.  Everyone would be late on the same day at the same time.  Would the boss just fire everyone out of spite and be left to man the company himself?  Whatever happened, I'm sure it'd be funny.
 
2014-02-05 10:44:35 PM

Revek: Gecko Gingrich: "Everyone has personal reasons or unexpected events that occasionally cause us to be late or miss work; recognizing this, our attendance policy in the Midwest region of Whole Foods Market is designed to provide support for our team members when these things happen. This includes a combination of excused and unexcused absences to provide the most flexibility," Phelps said in a statement. "Excused absences include illness (with a note from a medical provider), death in the family, jury duty, catastrophic events or city-wide weather disasters. Each team member is allowed up to five unexcused absences or 'points,' in a six-month period. No singular attendance event would cause a team member to be separated, and excused absences are not included in the 'points' system. Team members approaching their limit of unexcused absences receive warnings and reminders, and those who exceed their limit are separated."

read: this was not her fist time...or second time...or third...fourth...well, let's just say she has a habit of calling out

Yeah because she has a kid who needs to be taken care of and probably not one daycare that will.  I always imagine someone like you at 80 alone and just wishing someone cared enough to end your life because your to much of a coward to do it yourself.


Like my opening post stated, I understand, I just don't care. I've got a business to run. I agreed to pay you and you agreed to help me make the money to pay you. I've given you a set number of excused absences and for some reason even given you a set number of unexcused absences. You want charity? Go to a church.

Just because you can't come in doesn't mean the customers stop coming in. "But you can make do this time without me. Other people will cover for me." True. And I guess that proves we don't actually need your services. Thank you for helping me realize that.
 
2014-02-05 10:46:03 PM

Gecko Gingrich: read: this was not her fist time...or second time...or third...fourth...well, let's just say she has a habit of calling out


Exactly.  I suspect she's stayed home every snow day.

baorao: Yeah our time clock software rounds up the last 7 minutes of the hour. I came across several people who clocked out at 4:53 every day just because "hey free 7 minutes". Seems like such a stupid risk to take when the reviewers see the actual time even though the payroll software counts 4:53 as 5:00


My former employer had a full computerized timeclock, in general no human read over all the details.  A few guys were surprised when they got fired when it was caught that they were consistently clocking out for lunch at 1pm and then back in a little while later.  (Lunch was 12pm-1pm and since this was a factory you had no flexibility in that--the production line wasn't running, you couldn't work.)

lordjupiter: A timeclock is not a legal document or proof of work. Especially if someone is punching for a friend (which also happens).


Yup, a few that that former employer I mentioned above got fired that way also.  Punching in requires a password, they had to have provided that password.  I've been toying with a notion of using bluetooth-equipped cell phones to control the timeclock--people aren't likely to be parting with their phones to play games with the timeclock.
 
2014-02-05 10:50:11 PM
jshine:

With such rigid policies, it would be fun to go around to all your coworkers homes at 2:00am and let the air out of all their tires.  Everyone would be late on the same day at the same time.  Would the boss just fire everyone out of spite and be left to man the ...

I once started a job where the boss had fired EVERYBODY. It was just me and three other girls who had just been hired. One girls was on drugs and was fired that day for being on drugs.
 
2014-02-05 10:50:20 PM
I don't know what's worse -- the management at this Whole Foods store, or the guy who uses the word "uppity" non-ironically in 2014.
 
2014-02-05 11:01:42 PM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: The only good thing about Whole Foods is the employees. Corporate sucks, and the clientele by and large suck.


The one trick pony has spoken.
 
2014-02-05 11:02:31 PM
Another Fark thread chock full of misogyny and Libertarian fake badassery?

There's a surprise!
 
2014-02-05 11:04:46 PM
Corporation First! fark your family. Leave that kid at home alone. If it dies, more time for the mother to work.

Three cheers for FARK bad-asses!!!
 
2014-02-05 11:05:20 PM

mediablitz: Another Fark thread chock full of misogyny and Libertarian fake badassery?

There's a surprise!


I was going to say "Don't forget racism but apparently someone named their white kid Rhiannon.
 
2014-02-05 11:07:31 PM

AutumnWind: jshine:

With such rigid policies, it would be fun to go around to all your coworkers homes at 2:00am and let the air out of all their tires.  Everyone would be late on the same day at the same time.  Would the boss just fire everyone out of spite and be left to man the ...

I once started a job where the boss had fired EVERYBODY. It was just me and three other girls who had just been hired. One girls was on drugs and was fired that day for being on drugs.


Where was that?
 
2014-02-05 11:08:06 PM

jst3p: AutumnWind: moike: What I'm taking away from this thread is my decision to never have kids was one of the best life choices I've ever made.

Same here.

They are a lot of fun if you can afford them. My girlfriend and I are both in pretty good tax brackets, we don't face problems like this.


Good for you, seriously, no snark...

The girlfriend and I are in pretty good tax brackets as well, and have cats...  Both of us just couldn't find anything really worthwhile in our genetic makeup that deserved passing down.  If we get the baby itch, there are more than enough kids that could use parents.  We'll adopt.
 
2014-02-05 11:08:57 PM

moike: jst3p: AutumnWind: moike: What I'm taking away from this thread is my decision to never have kids was one of the best life choices I've ever made.

Same here.

They are a lot of fun if you can afford them. My girlfriend and I are both in pretty good tax brackets, we don't face problems like this.

Good for you, seriously, no snark...

The girlfriend and I are in pretty good tax brackets as well, and have cats...  Both of us just couldn't find anything really worthwhile in our genetic makeup that deserved passing down.  If we get the baby itch, there are more than enough kids that could use parents.  We'll adopt.


Cheers! Sounds like some lucky cats.
 
2014-02-05 11:10:29 PM

zedster: Gecko Gingrich: "Everyone has personal reasons or unexpected events that occasionally cause us to be late or miss work; recognizing this, our attendance policy in the Midwest region of Whole Foods Market is designed to provide support for our team members when these things happen. This includes a combination of excused and unexcused absences to provide the most flexibility," Phelps said in a statement. "Excused absences include illness (with a note from a medical provider), death in the family, jury duty, catastrophic events or city-wide weather disasters. Each team member is allowed up to five unexcused absences or 'points,' in a six-month period. No singular attendance event would cause a team member to be separated, and excused absences are not included in the 'points' system. Team members approaching their limit of unexcused absences receive warnings and reminders, and those who exceed their limit are separated."

read: this was not her fist time...or second time...or third...fourth...well, let's just say she has a habit of calling out

So say she had 4 missed days in 5 months, Chicago has two days of no school and she has to look after her son. Boom! Fired.

To say the public schools closing due to weather is not a city wide weather alert seems disingenuous no?


Missing 4 days in 5 months is nothing for a mother.

School holidays
Curriculum days
children sick.  (that would be maybe a few with a healthy child).

Schools are just not inline with working hours.   Personally for myself it was easier when my child was just in creche once she went to school then the bullshiat started.  Schools really need to start aligning with the working hours of most people.
 
2014-02-05 11:14:50 PM

Loren: Gecko Gingrich: read: this was not her fist time...or second time...or third...fourth...well, let's just say she has a habit of calling out

Exactly.  I suspect she's stayed home every snow day.

baorao: Yeah our time clock software rounds up the last 7 minutes of the hour. I came across several people who clocked out at 4:53 every day just because "hey free 7 minutes". Seems like such a stupid risk to take when the reviewers see the actual time even though the payroll software counts 4:53 as 5:00

My former employer had a full computerized timeclock, in general no human read over all the details.  A few guys were surprised when they got fired when it was caught that they were consistently clocking out for lunch at 1pm and then back in a little while later.  (Lunch was 12pm-1pm and since this was a factory you had no flexibility in that--the production line wasn't running, you couldn't work.)

lordjupiter: A timeclock is not a legal document or proof of work. Especially if someone is punching for a friend (which also happens).

Yup, a few that that former employer I mentioned above got fired that way also.  Punching in requires a password, they had to have provided that password.  I've been toying with a notion of using bluetooth-equipped cell phones to control the timeclock--people aren't likely to be parting with their phones to play games with the timeclock.


FLSA has pretty specific rules on how time clocks are to be used, but then again, many companies fail to follow the proper procedures and get away with all kinds of bull shiat as well.

http://www.dol.gov/elaws/esa/flsa/hoursworked/screenEE29.asp

Don't even get me started on the scam that is exempt salary.

So, while some workers game the system, so do many businesses as well because of the sick desire to control employee's time. As long as the job is getting done, who cares if it takes 4 hours or 40.
 
2014-02-05 11:15:11 PM

Smackledorfer: Nabb1: FizixJunkee: jst3p: Nah, in retail they just schedule you for so few hours that you quit.

During college, I worked at a coffee shop.  The guy who owned it would do just that when he wanted to get rid of an employee: cut their hours so ridiculously---e.g., from full-time 40 hours/week down to less than 5 hours/week---that they had no choice but to quit.

Bonus: He didn't have to pay unemployment!

/guess which political party he aligned himself with

That's pretty common practice in food & beverage and retail. Anyone who works in those fields knows when that happens, the writing is on the wall and to start looking for a new job. Maybe you prefer firing people outright with no warning? At least you give people a chance to quit rather than explaining why they were fired. Unless you catch them doing something awful like stealing or showing up drunk, of course.

I would rather be fired and get umemployment while finding another job.

My last restaurant job played all those games. I took a week off with months of advance notice and they cut my hours after, from 40 to 25ish. Which meant 35after I picked up shifts for the folks my boss shifted my hours to.

This occurred every year after 4th of july when my extended family all hits the lake. To add insult to injury, that was a bad week for business anyways. I mean like work open to close on the 4th and get 40 bucks slow.


Why didn't you find another job while working your few hours? Better then unemployment would pay you while you search.
 
2014-02-05 11:16:22 PM

jso2897: bigdog1960: bigdog1960: Illinois is full of prices. I don't know why, I had to leave.

Pricks damn auto correct

Say what you will about Illinois pricks - at least they have an ethos.


And it's farking golden.
 
2014-02-05 11:26:40 PM

El Dudereno: catches every germ that goes around.


Hey, I used to never get sick. Now, I expect to catch everything my kids get a couple of days after they have it.
 
2014-02-05 11:28:08 PM

Nonrepeating Rotating Binary: Back in the late 80's, the company I worked for instituted a policy of "flexibility" for parents, in the name of supporting Working Families.  It quickly devolved into one massive excuse for parents to be absent at the drop of a hat and push all of their work off on the single and non-parent workers.  Within six months, there was a revolt by those of us being forced to pick up the slack as our 'family-minded' co-workers massively abused the system, and the whole thing was scrapped.

Yeah, sucks you have a kid who needs you.  But the terms of your job are not different because you're a parent.


As long as the law makes it a criminal offence of neglect to leave a child at home by themselves.  Then damn right the law must make sure employers give le-way for parents.
 
2014-02-05 11:31:34 PM
Lawsuit, collect money. Get kid into home school. Win. Fark Whole foods. Nothing wholesome about them.
 
2014-02-05 11:37:16 PM
I come in when the hell I want 8 am to 10:30 AM
I leave when I want.  If I want to be gone for two hours for lunch and go look at an auction inspection, I do it.
I also make the company wads of money, instead of pretending to contribute an playing Facebook games all day.
 
2014-02-05 11:40:07 PM

jso2897: The idea that she must work to justify her and her child's existence

...

Should people not be expected to provide value to society?  How would you choose to measure that value?
 
2014-02-06 12:00:14 AM

Gecko Gingrich: "Everyone has personal reasons or unexpected events that occasionally cause us to be late or miss work; recognizing this, our attendance policy in the Midwest region of Whole Foods Market is designed to provide support for our team members when these things happen. This includes a combination of excused and unexcused absences to provide the most flexibility," Phelps said in a statement. "Excused absences include illness (with a note from a medical provider), death in the family, jury duty, catastrophic events or city-wide weather disasters. Each team member is allowed up to five unexcused absences or 'points,' in a six-month period. No singular attendance event would cause a team member to be separated, and excused absences are not included in the 'points' system. Team members approaching their limit of unexcused absences receive warnings and reminders, and those who exceed their limit are separated."

read: this was not her fist time...or second time...or third...fourth...well, let's just say she has a habit of calling out


ronniehiggins.com

You assume much and know very little. But, if your fantasy enforces your delusion that your world view is correct then I guess its a win for you.
 
2014-02-06 12:03:17 AM

Prophet of Loss: You assume much and know very little. But, if your fantasy enforces your delusion that your world view is correct then I guess its a win for you.


Rubber/glue or pot/kettle, take your pick.
 
2014-02-06 12:04:00 AM

moike: What I'm taking away from this thread is my decision to never have kids was one of the best life choices I've ever made.


C'mon, you already knew that.
It's not the best life choice for everyone, but know it was for me.

/Childless by choices (My choice, my wife's choice. One reason we're married)
//Nothing at all against those who have kids. Heck, my folks had kids! So did my wife's folks!
 
2014-02-06 12:13:26 AM

Freudian_slipknot: Yeah, weather in Chicago has been horrible this year, and CPS has had two snow days.  But that doesn't mean it was a city-wide weather emergency, since everything was still open and public transit was still running normally.



Everything wasn't open and transit wasn't running normally.  Employers throughout the downtown area closed their offices and/or switched to contingency plans that had employees working remotely from home.  Neither Metra nor the CTA could operate normally during the weather.  So, other than the fact that you are wrong, your basis for defining what constitutes a "city wide emergency" has about as much validity as the basis used by Whole Foods ("Whelp, most of our employees got here, so there isn't an emergency") since their "unexcused" absence policy essentially guarantees that their employees will brave just about anything to get to work (since they have no way of knowing beforehand how many people will or won't make it).


Basically, it's pretty clear from their policy that she was making a habit of unexcused absences.   Can't say I blame her, since I've also been tempted to play hooky to avoid the trudge to work through the snow, but I also can't blame the company for replacing someone who leaves them understaffed with no warning once a month on average.  There's a line out the door of people looking for a job in the city who would be happy to show up when scheduled.  I don't believe for a minute, having worked retail, that other companies have been "more understanding" of calling in with no notice more than once or twice a year.

Yeah, the whole "I couldn't find alternative childcare at the drop of a hat" excuse is pretty hard to believe and it's not like parents have been complaining to the CPS and other area districts about how these closings are wreaking havoc on their employment situations.  I can see why you saw through her excuse and revealed it for the smokescreen it was.  Bravo, you discerning fellow.
 
2014-02-06 12:14:40 AM
She was already an attendance nightmare clearly or another way to solve this is...don't be a single mother. Can't take the responsibility don't spread the legs.
 
2014-02-06 12:15:44 AM

Gecko Gingrich: "Everyone has personal reasons or unexpected events that occasionally cause us to be late or miss work; recognizing this, our attendance policy in the Midwest region of Whole Foods Market is designed to provide support for our team members when these things happen. This includes a combination of excused and unexcused absences to provide the most flexibility," Phelps said in a statement. "Excused absences include illness (with a note from a medical provider), death in the family, jury duty, catastrophic events or city-wide weather disasters. Each team member is allowed up to five unexcused absences or 'points,' in a six-month period. No singular attendance event would cause a team member to be separated, and excused absences are not included in the 'points' system. Team members approaching their limit of unexcused absences receive warnings and reminders, and those who exceed their limit are separated."

read: this was not her fist time...or second time...or third...fourth...well, let's just say she has a habit of calling out


Am I reading this right? 10 no-shows a year...that's as much vacation as I get and I'm a salaried, full-time worker.

How about you STFU!
 
2014-02-06 01:10:08 AM

Tobin_Lam: When you have kids, especially a special needs kid, you have a backup that can watch your kid and at least one more backup ready just in case.


As the parent of a special needs child, I can tell you that finding anyone who is willing to watch your kid is very difficult.  This is especially true if your child is unable to walk at the expected age, as they then require you to provide an aide to be there with your child.  While most states do in theory have programs in place to provide aides, you may be on a waiting list for months or even years to get one (especially in WI since Walker moved the management of that program from DHS to regional groups that don't give a crap)
 
2014-02-06 01:20:35 AM
The funny thing is, these outraged people are probably the same people who were outraged about how CPS initially wasn't going to call snow days for the cold. Then CPS gave in and let the snowflakes stay home.

One of the objections to the outrage was what about the parents who would have to stay home from their jobs because the schools closed... and it was 'think about the children'....  Meanwhile in decades past we went to school in this weather.
 
2014-02-06 01:34:13 AM

Gecko Gingrich: "Everyone has personal reasons or unexpected events that occasionally cause us to be late or miss work; recognizing this, our attendance policy in the Midwest region of Whole Foods Market is designed to provide support for our team members when these things happen. This includes a combination of excused and unexcused absences to provide the most flexibility," Phelps said in a statement. "Excused absences include illness (with a note from a medical provider), death in the family, jury duty, catastrophic events or city-wide weather disasters. Each team member is allowed up to five unexcused absences or 'points,' in a six-month period. No singular attendance event would cause a team member to be separated, and excused absences are not included in the 'points' system. Team members approaching their limit of unexcused absences receive warnings and reminders, and those who exceed their limit are separated."

read: this was not her fist time...or second time...or third...fourth...well, let's just say she has a habit of calling out


This is nothing new with companies not letting people take care of their kids. I worked at Ameritech for 3 months years ago. We were told that if we missed more than 3 days of work a year, we were fired. The moms there were panicking because they knew that a case of the flu going through their house would get them fired. They trained 5 of us for. 3 months, none of us stayed after our training period because of that rule.

Women typically are the ones to have to stay home if the kids are sick. I have yet to hear one of my girlfriends say that they went to work and their husband stayed home with the sick kid even when both were just as accomplished in their careers.

I was actually told to give 2 weeks notice in the future when I needed a day off and replied that the next time someone died, I would tell them to give me 2 weeks notice. (Was out a day for my fiance's great grandmother's funeral.) The HR lady looked like she had been slapped when she realized what she had said.

We don't have all the worker and family care protections that the EU has. The vacation time either. But the sick thing is there are people siding with the store instead of saying, "what kind of country are we if instead of making sure people can take care of their kids while still keeping their jobs, we pick on the person who couldn't leave their kids home alone to come to work."

shiat happens and it's especially rough for someone with a special needs kid as they have a lot fewer childcare options available to them. She must need the job if she is working. My cousin has Down syndrome and there are limited people that my aunt can leave her with.

Even if the kid doesn't have special needs, you can't leave them home alone legally until they are 13 in my state.
 
2014-02-06 01:41:07 AM

leadmetal: The funny thing is, these outraged people are probably the same people who were outraged about how CPS initially wasn't going to call snow days for the cold. Then CPS gave in and let the snowflakes stay home.

One of the objections to the outrage was what about the parents who would have to stay home from their jobs because the schools closed... and it was 'think about the children'....  Meanwhile in decades past we went to school in this weather.


Which decades didn't have snow days?
 
2014-02-06 01:41:35 AM

Farkin Charlie: No, this was the  fifth unexcused absence in 6 months, this doesn't count the other times she may have missed and was excused. Sounds like they actually have a very lenient attendance policy for retail. Most places don't give you that for a whole year. And, if she had a special needs child, why wasn't she on flma, which would have protected her?


Some Chicago area schools have had 5 + snow days since going back in January.

We had 4 so far in the far outer suburbs along with everyone else in the area.

So yeah, these could have all happened because of snow days.

Excused absences usually require notice. Typically 2 weeks. You don't get that with snow days. At best they told us noon the day before that they would be closed and that was a lot of notice as I remember finding out on the tv as a kid in the morning.
 
2014-02-06 01:59:01 AM

HotIgneous Intruder: RyansPrivates: Cyclometh: BunkyBrewman: Those damn facts

Point of order- those are not  facts, they are assertions about the company's policy, and they specifically did  not comment on this woman's situation.

It is entirely possible that she was terminated for violating that policy, but there are no facts here, just what people are asserting to be true. It's also possible she was not in violation of the policy (although less likely in my opinion).

The question is, in my mind, why is this an unexcused absence if that was the case.  From the company's own statement of policy (relevant parts bolded):

...excused absences include illness (with a note from a medical provider), death in the family, jury duty, catastrophic events or city-wide weather disasters. Each team member is allowed up to five unexcused absences or 'points,' in a six-month period.

Why is this counted as an unexcused absence?

"Unexcused absence" WTF.
What is this, high school?
Does she need a note from her mommy as well?


Huh? I take it you don't work in corporate America?
 
2014-02-06 02:00:59 AM
How many of those who picketed Whole Foods in support of this woman's habit of missing work also offered to look after her child next time she needs help?

I'm going to guess "zero."
 
2014-02-06 02:02:08 AM

Gecko Gingrich: Revek: Gecko Gingrich: "Everyone has personal reasons or unexpected events that occasionally cause us to be late or miss work; recognizing this, our attendance policy in the Midwest region of Whole Foods Market is designed to provide support for our team members when these things happen. This includes a combination of excused and unexcused absences to provide the most flexibility," Phelps said in a statement. "Excused absences include illness (with a note from a medical provider), death in the family, jury duty, catastrophic events or city-wide weather disasters. Each team member is allowed up to five unexcused absences or 'points,' in a six-month period. No singular attendance event would cause a team member to be separated, and excused absences are not included in the 'points' system. Team members approaching their limit of unexcused absences receive warnings and reminders, and those who exceed their limit are separated."

read: this was not her fist time...or second time...or third...fourth...well, let's just say she has a habit of calling out

Yeah because she has a kid who needs to be taken care of and probably not one daycare that will.  I always imagine someone like you at 80 alone and just wishing someone cared enough to end your life because your to much of a coward to do it yourself.

Like my opening post stated, I understand, I just don't care. I've got a business to run. I agreed to pay you and you agreed to help me make the money to pay you. I've given you a set number of excused absences and for some reason even given you a set number of unexcused absences. You want charity? Go to a church.

Just because you can't come in doesn't mean the customers stop coming in. "But you can make do this time without me. Other people will cover for me." True. And I guess that proves we don't actually need your services. Thank you for helping me realize that.


Oh I understood you just fine.  Did you understand me?
 
2014-02-06 03:18:13 AM
Our plant has a no fault policy.  Miss so many days and you're out no matter what.  Women, older workers who have put 30 years in makes no difference.  I hope there's a special place in hell for people like this.
 
2014-02-06 03:22:30 AM

ocd002: We don't have all the worker and family care protections that the EU has. The vacation time either. But the sick thing is there are people siding with the store instead of saying, "what kind of country are we if instead of making sure people can take care of their kids while still keeping their jobs, we pick on the person who couldn't leave their kids home alone to come to work."


It sounds like she sidled up to her maximum entitlements every 6 months (probably frequently with dubious cause) so they'd had enough of her.  Unexcused absences are theoretically for emergencies and expected events.  If you're using the maximum every time then you're probably rorting it.

How many days above what she agreed to when they hired her should they allow?  And since you think she should get extra, how about all the other employees?  What excuses will give them access to the bottomless pool of munificence you propose the company have?

I live in a pretty socialist-y country and I am not a capitalist-y person (I'm a very active union representative, and think your Democrats are unbearably right wing).  At my job I have five weeks vacation, unlimited sick leave, unlimited funeral leave, and fifteen days "domestic" leave (for looking after sick family members, etc).  The company is very generous with flexible time, allowing people to start any time between 6am and 10am, and finish any time after 3pm, so long as you do your 40 hours that week.  If I needed cancer treatment I could have six months off, paid, easy.  Our HR is still a foetid cesspool of psychopaths and failed lawyers who will smile while they screw you over if you appear to be abusing their largess.

I say screw this lady.  Her child is not an excuse. When you take a job you agree to the terms and conditions.  If for any reason you are regularly not able to meet the terms and conditions that you agreed to when you signed a contract then you should find another job that has expectations you're capable of meeting.  The burden isn't on the company to keep trying to find ways to make special allowances for you.  They don't have to put up with your personal life constantly interfering with the duties you agreed in a legally binding manner to carry out when they hired you.  It sucks, but there you have it.

Your employer is not your friend.  Never let them lull you into a false sense of a security or loyalty.  Do what you agreed to do when you signed the contract, and expect them to do no more than the same (and less if their lawyers convince them they can get away with it).
 
2014-02-06 05:17:50 AM
The 47 Percenters get no respect.

i1.wp.com
 
2014-02-06 05:23:10 AM

moike: What I'm taking away from this thread is my decision to never have kids was one of the best life choices I've ever made.


Too bad your parents didn't make that same choice.

Gosh people are assholes about children. Your comment isn't the worst, just merely the stupid one I'm picking on.

From where I sit, what's going on with this lady isn't that damned bad. OMG, she was absent a day because she had to take care of her child. Or maybe she had a day or two where she was ill herself. Maybe the sitter called off.

Never get sick. Never need anything. Just show up and be a machine for an employer. It's effing inhuman.

And then we get assholes in threads like these justifying asshole corporate behavior. She is not the problem. The system that doesn't allow for people to be human is the god damned problem.
 
2014-02-06 05:31:42 AM

ocd002: Was out a day for my fiance's great grandmother's funeral.


You got a day off for your boyfriend's great-grandmother's funeral? Adding up all the equivalent relatives and up, that's six days off just for your boyfriend's side of the family (his parents, their parents, and their parents).

Then your family, that's another six, making 12. Then, god forbid, siblings. And if they'll let you go for fairly distant relatives of your boyfriend's, which they will, then they'll let you go for his cousins. And your cousins. So it's pretty much endless there, I take it?

I'm not complaining, but I would like to know if they're hiring. I could use a few more days off every month, and I can easily pick up a few extra boyfriends to achieve that, and even more.
 
2014-02-06 06:06:50 AM
shiat like this is what makes me glad I work for a really awesome boss.  Tuesday around 3pm I went to my manager and said "Dave, I need a personal day off tomorrow. Family emergency."   He didn't ask any questions, just said "take care of your family." and told me to leave early.

Thanks to that kind of cool bossitude, I was able to drive my wife and mother-in-law 2hrs through a blizzard to see the MIL's sister just a couple hours before she passed away.

When people ask me why I've passed up opportunities within the company that would pay me more money, but would require me to report to a different boss, stuff like this is why.

I think Whole Foods could maybe have been a little more flexible, but as many have pointed out, there's probably more to the story than what we're seeing in TFA. Maybe she has a history of using her "special needs" child as an excuse to leave early, not show up, etc etc.
 
2014-02-06 06:21:01 AM

Hermione_Granger: And then we get assholes in threads like these justifying asshole corporate behavior. She is not the problem. The system that doesn't allow for people to be human is the god damned problem


I'll agree that the system is the problem.  I have trouble conjuring sympathy though.  When I was married, my wife was chronically ill and I was raising my son all while working 60 hours a week.  It sucked and our attendance policies were pretty draconian.  I did it for 6 years.

I never forced my coworkers to pick up my slack though.  I had 3 backups to care for my wife and son if something happened. All my free time was spent caring for them and I had absolutely no life.  Now, you are absolutely right that when the parents I work with call out for every little reason making me work harder unexpectedly I am going to be irritated.  I didn't have your kid, I shouldn't have to work harder because of it.  Sorry.
 
2014-02-06 06:25:06 AM
Newflash: you do not get special work rules because you spit out some crotch fruit.
 
2014-02-06 07:17:30 AM

JK47: Everything wasn't open and transit wasn't running normally.


Good to know, since I - and all of my friends who also work in the loop - took transit normally to our completely open and operational offices that day.

Cool for you that you also got a snow day.  You were the exception.  Most adults didn't.

/not a "fellow"
 
2014-02-06 07:25:00 AM

FizixJunkee: jst3p: Nah, in retail they just schedule you for so few hours that you quit.

During college, I worked at a coffee shop.  The guy who owned it would do just that when he wanted to get rid of an employee: cut their hours so ridiculously---e.g., from full-time 40 hours/week down to less than 5 hours/week---that they had no choice but to quit.

Bonus: He didn't have to pay unemployment!

/guess which political party he aligned himself with


You sound like you've never run a business
 
2014-02-06 07:25:02 AM
Very likely this was an ongoing thing with her.  Mostly left unmentioned in this thread is the impact on the other workers.  Oh sure, the company should have given her more leeway.  The reality - everyone who decided to come to work has to pick up the slack for no extra pay. In a supermarket the absence of even one person who was scheduled to be there can be very disruptive.  We've all been to supermarkets before.  There are days where the shelves are poorly stocked, the lines are extra long and cash registers are unmanned.  It's frustrating for us, frustrating for managers, and frustrating to the workers that managed to get in.
 
2014-02-06 08:07:37 AM
The company I work for has a similar policy. Unexcused absences are called "occurrences". 6 of them within a certain time frame and you are out the door. Though some will be over looked if the the circumstances warrant, or you can provide enough prior notice. Also depends on how much of a dick the supervisor feels like being.

3 years on and I've yet to get one. Other folks have already racked up as much as 5. It's no wonder I rack up a lot of overtime.
 
2014-02-06 08:15:04 AM
Because the state or the city didn't declare a state of emergency. Just because CPS calls a snow day doesn't mean it is a city wide weather disaster.

To tell you the truth, this sounds like she was somebody they wanted to get rid of for whatever reason, and her calling in put her to the point, per her employment contract with the company, that they could fire her.


"At-will" workers don't have contracts. If they did, they'd have leverage against the employer.

Unionized workers have contracts. And, no matter the truth behind this particular event, it does appear that Whole Foods workers should unionize to deal with their Ayn Rand-esque CEO.

If Whole Foods shuts down as a result, more power to those companies that don't gouge customers.
 
2014-02-06 08:24:18 AM
I learned long ago that if Karen Lewis is involved, whomever she is currently protesting against is usually in the right. She loves to make every situation she can about her, the teachers union, etc. My guess is she could protest the hotel conditions in Sochi and turn it into a diatribe about how the City of Chicago is out to get her, and the Teachers Union, and of course...the poor children!

She's an utter tool.
 
2014-02-06 08:40:22 AM
She added: "With me having a son, there should be a policy instilled where working single mothers need a little bit of leniency and understanding, and I feel that just didn't happen to me."

Fark off. Even ignoring the very real possibility that you were fired because this has been a chronic problem, no policy needs to exist becasue of your special circumstance.

/ on the other hand, the Whole Foods CEO is a potato-headed Randian derpmonger, so I figure whoever wins this little contest it's a push
 
2014-02-06 08:58:17 AM

hooligan sidekick: up to five absences in a rolling six month period


I used to work for a major, multinational, billion dollar company. At my particular location there were problems in the past between the company salaried management and the union employees. Most people there still held grudges from a union lockout that happened in the mid 90s where the company locked out all union staff for 9 months and ran the plant themselves, poorly.

We got 3 sick instances (could be 1 day or several) in a rolling 12 month period. This is not nearly enough sick time for most people. Personally, my immune system sucks and I get colds often. This ended up forcing people who were pretty farking sick to come into work to avoid disciplinary action. They usually tried to stay away from the other people and the rest of the guys in their unit did all the work. It was no different than them being home as far as productivity was concerned, except that these sick people were potentially exposing others to it and increasing their own recovering time by having to be out and about.

If you were out for more than 3 days then you needed 2 doctors notes to be allowed back . "this person was sick" and "all healthy and ready to return to work". From the same doctor. So, you get sick enough to need a few days off. The flu or something. You have to see a doctor. Then once you're feeling well enough to return you have to schedule a doctors appointment for an all clear evaluation. Good luck scheduling doctors appointments to see a doctor withing a day or 2. Especially the same doctor twice in a short amount of time. My current GP is one that I can sometimes see the same day if I call in the morning but sometimes it takes a 2-3 days for an appointment.

The company was so farking paranoid that the employees were going to try to get one over on them. It created animosity. And people tend to rise to what is expected of them. Treat them like criminals and since they've already done the time you can be sure that they'll do the crime out of resentment.

That place sucked for several reasons. Their paranoid sick policy was just one of them.
 
2014-02-06 09:22:40 AM

fusillade762: gopher321: Gecko Gingrich: "Everyone has personal reasons or unexpected events that occasionally cause us to be late or miss work; recognizing this, our attendance policy in the Midwest region of Whole Foods Market is designed to provide support for our team members when these things happen. This includes a combination of excused and unexcused absences to provide the most flexibility," Phelps said in a statement. "Excused absences include illness (with a note from a medical provider), death in the family, jury duty, catastrophic events or city-wide weather disasters. Each team member is allowed up to five unexcused absences or 'points,' in a six-month period. No singular attendance event would cause a team member to be separated, and excused absences are not included in the 'points' system. Team members approaching their limit of unexcused absences receive warnings and reminders, and those who exceed their limit are separated."

read: this was not her fist time...or second time...or third...fourth...well, let's just say she has a habit of calling out

THIS

/non story

Seconded. I'd also like to know why "special needs" is in quotation marks.


It's in quotes because they meant "retarded" but aren't allowed to say that because of political correctness nazis.
 
2014-02-06 09:34:20 AM

MadAzza: How many of those who picketed Whole Foods in support of this woman's habit of missing work also offered to look after her child next time she needs help?

I'm going to guess "zero."


In these types of discussions someone will always make this exact dumbass comment. Do you think this woman would let a complete stranger look after her kid? If she did, and something happened, then you would be screaming for her head. And do you think it would be appropriate for a complete stranger to offer to look after her kid?
 
2014-02-06 09:41:06 AM

CtrlAltDestroy: The company was so farking paranoid that the employees were going to try to get one over on them. It created animosity. And people tend to rise to what is expected of them. Treat them like criminals and since they've already done the time you can be sure that they'll do the crime out of resentment.


Can't be repeated enough.
 
2014-02-06 09:57:41 AM

jso2897: Smackledorfer: jso2897: Nonrepeating Rotating Binary: Back in the late 80's, the company I worked for instituted a policy of "flexibility" for parents, in the name of supporting Working Families.  It quickly devolved into one massive excuse for parents to be absent at the drop of a hat and push all of their work off on the single and non-parent workers.  Within six months, there was a revolt by those of us being forced to pick up the slack as our 'family-minded' co-workers massively abused the system, and the whole thing was scrapped.

Yeah, sucks you have a kid who needs you.  But the terms of your job are not different because you're a parent.

It's really a shiatty situation, and this woman need help - but her employer isn't a charity or welfare agency - they can't deal with this, they sell groceries. By the way - where's daddy? Is she raising this child alone, and if so, why?
But if she can't really work and care for her child properly, she has to accept that and move forward.

Horseshiat.

We have high unemployment. Plenty of folks would take a part time average 20 hours jpb and accept being called in on her family days.

Where is daddy? Probably has a job too. But way to play the welfare stereotype...

I would have no problem giving her welfare - if Dad has flown the coop and left her high and dry, then society has to care for her and her kid, and I'm more than happy to pay my share. But the solution to this is not for her employer to try to cover for society failing to help her.
The idea that she must work to justify her and her child's existence, even if the kid's health problems make it impossible for her to hold down a job reliably, is the real problem here. At some point soon, we are going to have to look at the fact that worker productivity increases and market changes have put us at the point where we are going to examine the old biblical economic model. There will not be jobs for everybody again. Ever. And if we can't cure ourselves of our irrational hatred of the idea of a "welfare state", then we'd better think up another name to call it - because we are there, now.


I don't think you know what "irrational" means. You appear to imply that any rational person inherently believes that a limited number of working people must bear the burden of supporting any and all "unfortunates" presumably based on your definition of unfortunate. Because technology.

///I would enjoy society providing me with hookers and blow because I'm tired but semi erect but that doesn't make it rational to expect it.
 
2014-02-06 10:24:08 AM

HotIgneous Intruder: RyansPrivates: Cyclometh: BunkyBrewman: Those damn facts

Point of order- those are not  facts, they are assertions about the company's policy, and they specifically did  not comment on this woman's situation.

It is entirely possible that she was terminated for violating that policy, but there are no facts here, just what people are asserting to be true. It's also possible she was not in violation of the policy (although less likely in my opinion).

The question is, in my mind, why is this an unexcused absence if that was the case.  From the company's own statement of policy (relevant parts bolded):

...excused absences include illness (with a note from a medical provider), death in the family, jury duty, catastrophic events or city-wide weather disasters. Each team member is allowed up to five unexcused absences or 'points,' in a six-month period.

Why is this counted as an unexcused absence?

"Unexcused absence" WTF.
What is this, high school?
Does she need a note from her mommy as well?


ahh
unfamiliar with the adult working world.
you should go ahead and take out some more student loans to put it off as long as possible.
 
2014-02-06 11:04:20 AM
We have a problem worker at my job like this. She has 6 kids from 3 guys, age range from 1 to 10. She is late every day by at least 45 min, needs to leave early most days, misses at least a day a week When she is here she is on the phone dealing with some drama. They should have fired her weeks ago when she snapped at one of the guys that asked her a simple work related question. She can be very difficult to work with. I still remember when they asked me about hiring her full time and I told them that would be a bad idea from my observations of her work habits. I think the boss hired her on full time and wont fore her because she is a mom as well and a very nice person. Pisses me off that drama mamma takes advantage of her kindness and others have to pick up her slack.
 
2014-02-06 11:08:13 AM

Nonrepeating Rotating Binary: Back in the late 80's, the company I worked for instituted a policy of "flexibility" for parents, in the name of supporting Working Families.  It quickly devolved into one massive excuse for parents to be absent at the drop of a hat and push all of their work off on the single and non-parent workers.  Within six months, there was a revolt by those of us being forced to pick up the slack as our 'family-minded' co-workers massively abused the system, and the whole thing was scrapped.

Yeah, sucks you have a kid who needs you.  But the terms of your job are not different because you're a parent.


I was actually told by the micro-managing buttmunch-in-charge that since I didn't have a wife or kids, that I needed to be more flexible in consideration for those with families -- because I obviously didn't have much going on in my life outside of work.

The fact that he was right didn't make it any better, dammit.
 
2014-02-06 11:09:47 AM

jso2897: I would have no problem giving her welfare - if Dad has flown the coop and left her high and dry, then society has to care for her and her kid, and I'm more than happy to pay my share. But the solution to this is not for her employer to try to cover for society failing to help her.


Agreed.  Liberals love to do Enron-accounting with welfare costs by offloading them to the business world.  I'm not opposed to welfare, I'm rabidly opposed to off-the-books accounting.
 
2014-02-06 11:21:18 AM
I actually feel better about my crappy job now. We have a point system. You get 12 points total. Start at zero. Say your late or leave early an hour, you lose a quarter point. 1-3 hours, you lose half a point. You call off for over 3 hours, you get a whole point. The penalties are worse if you don't call the attendence line saying you will be late or not coming in. A no call/no show for the whole day will get you 3 points.

You can earn points back by showing up to work everyday for a month (not including scheduled PTO time). Thankfully we only need to give 3 days notice for PTO.


/also at my job, they don't care about my hours as long as I put in 8 hours between 6am and 6pm.
 
2014-02-06 11:49:39 AM
Don't go to work, then you no longer work there.
That's obvious, and it's the way it should be.
Your kid is your problem, and has no impact on me, my business, or anything else in the world.

Work ethic and personal responsibility.  Ideas that need to be looked into.
 
2014-02-06 12:17:00 PM

Nutsac_Jim: I come in when the hell I want 8 am to 10:30 AM
I leave when I want.  If I want to be gone for two hours for lunch and go look at an auction inspection, I do it.
I also make the company wads of money, instead of pretending to contribute an playing Facebook games all day.


...Says the asshat posting on fark during office hours.
 
2014-02-06 12:57:26 PM
A few thoughts:

- To those accusing me of jumping to conclusions, Whole Foods' "We can't comment on a specific case, but..." explanation *clearly* tells us that she had reached her limit of unexcused days off every six months.

- Every employee is given six days every six months to call in "not coming in today". That means on average they each have one day a month. Let's say there are 60 employees at this Whole Foods that all used the policy as this woman did. On average, there will be two people *a day* calling out. If there are 90 employees, that's three calling out a day. Someone has to do the work of the person who called out. If the deli is missing a person, I suppose you'll just be OK with grabbing chit number 87 and looking up and seeing that they're on number 61. If they're short a cashier, you'll not get pissed when they don't "Just open another register. I mean, what the hell! Look at this line!" Since the guy who normally just has to take care of the produce department is also taking care of the dairy case, you won't mind when the mango box is empty even though there is a case of them in back. *Your* boss will certainly understand why you came back from lunch 10 minutes late, right? And you certainly won't make a mental note that "This Whole Foods sucks," instead of, "I'm sure that my inconvenience is due to the fact that a single mom who was scheduled to come in today couldn't."

- Where do you draw the line on being able to call out? It's clearly more often than once month for a single mom with a special needs kid working at a grocery store, so twice a month? Once a week? Twice a week? How about if her kid isn't special needs? How about if it's just some alcoholic married guy without kids? How about if it's a firefighter?
 
2014-02-06 01:02:27 PM

jayphat: RyansPrivates: Cyclometh: BunkyBrewman: Those damn facts

Point of order- those are not  facts, they are assertions about the company's policy, and they specifically did  not comment on this woman's situation.

It is entirely possible that she was terminated for violating that policy, but there are no facts here, just what people are asserting to be true. It's also possible she was not in violation of the policy (although less likely in my opinion).

The question is, in my mind, why is this an unexcused absence if that was the case.  From the company's own statement of policy (relevant parts bolded):

...excused absences include illness (with a note from a medical provider), death in the family, jury duty, catastrophic events or city-wide weather disasters. Each team member is allowed up to five unexcused absences or 'points,' in a six-month period.

Why is this counted as an unexcused absence?

Was the city closed? Did the city declare all streets/roads closed? That is a city-wide emergency.


Not to pick nits, but the language doesn't say emergency, says disaster.  The schools were closed.  That is a public institution that thought it was catastrophic enough to close.  I know many, if not most companies would consider this an excused absence if the schools are closed.  Not only for parents, mind you, but for everyone.  School closings are used as a "barometer" for the level of safety in a locale.
 
2014-02-06 01:25:23 PM

Guest: zedster: Gecko Gingrich: "Everyone has personal reasons or unexpected events that occasionally cause us to be late or miss work; recognizing this, our attendance policy in the Midwest region of Whole Foods Market is designed to provide support for our team members when these things happen. This includes a combination of excused and unexcused absences to provide the most flexibility," Phelps said in a statement. "Excused absences include illness (with a note from a medical provider), death in the family, jury duty, catastrophic events or city-wide weather disasters. Each team member is allowed up to five unexcused absences or 'points,' in a six-month period. No singular attendance event would cause a team member to be separated, and excused absences are not included in the 'points' system. Team members approaching their limit of unexcused absences receive warnings and reminders, and those who exceed their limit are separated."

read: this was not her fist time...or second time...or third...fourth...well, let's just say she has a habit of calling out

So say she had 4 missed days in 5 months, Chicago has two days of no school and she has to look after her son. Boom! Fired.

To say the public schools closing due to weather is not a city wide weather alert seems disingenuous no?

Missing 4 days in 5 months is nothing for a mother.

School holidays
Curriculum days
children sick.  (that would be maybe a few with a healthy child).

Schools are just not inline with working hours.   Personally for myself it was easier when my child was just in creche once she went to school then the bullshiat started.  Schools really need to start aligning with the working hours of most people.


So I agree that schools/employers aren't lined up.  The problem is, especially in retail, the hours of operation  won't necessarily be.  This uncovers the problem that is the lack of a true childcare options beyond school, especially for parent's of younger (elementary school) or special needs kids.  So what do we do?  If we value work as a society (which we should), I think we need some sort of care infrastructure (not just kids, but elder care, etc).  What does that look like?  Subsidies from employers? Government programs?  I don't know, but I think the conversation needs to take place.
 
2014-02-06 01:34:47 PM
if you get sacked for something like that, then you really needed sacking

THERE IS NO FULLCAPPING EXCEPTION
 
2014-02-06 01:46:00 PM

fusillade762: gopher321: Gecko Gingrich: "Everyone has personal reasons or unexpected events that occasionally cause us to be late or miss work; recognizing this, our attendance policy in the Midwest region of Whole Foods Market is designed to provide support for our team members when these things happen. This includes a combination of excused and unexcused absences to provide the most flexibility," Phelps said in a statement. "Excused absences include illness (with a note from a medical provider), death in the family, jury duty, catastrophic events or city-wide weather disasters. Each team member is allowed up to five unexcused absences or 'points,' in a six-month period. No singular attendance event would cause a team member to be separated, and excused absences are not included in the 'points' system. Team members approaching their limit of unexcused absences receive warnings and reminders, and those who exceed their limit are separated."

read: this was not her fist time...or second time...or third...fourth...well, let's just say she has a habit of calling out

THIS

/non story

Seconded. I'd also like to know why "special needs" is in quotation marks.



Gluten sensitivity.
 
2014-02-06 01:56:07 PM

jso2897: Nonrepeating Rotating Binary: Back in the late 80's, the company I worked for instituted a policy of "flexibility" for parents, in the name of supporting Working Families.  It quickly devolved into one massive excuse for parents to be absent at the drop of a hat and push all of their work off on the single and non-parent workers.  Within six months, there was a revolt by those of us being forced to pick up the slack as our 'family-minded' co-workers massively abused the system, and the whole thing was scrapped.

Yeah, sucks you have a kid who needs you.  But the terms of your job are not different because you're a parent.

It's really a shiatty situation, and this woman need help - but her employer isn't a charity or welfare agency - they can't deal with this, they sell groceries. By the way - where's daddy? Is she raising this child alone, and if so, why?
But if she can't really work and care for her child properly, she has to accept that and move forward.


Move forward to what exactly? Living under a bridge and starving?

 GOP talking points aside, a lot of places do *not* pay to stay home and take care of your kids. That's why we have so many single working moms.

 I'm not sure why so many people give single moms such crap. Dad apparently has left her holding the "bag/kid" so to speak, she's doing the best she can to raise a kid (special needs or not) on one income in a two income world. 

 Some parents take advantage of stuff sure... but let's not assume the worst, especially when the deck is already stacked against someone.
 
2014-02-06 02:33:55 PM

Technoir: shiat like this is what makes me glad I work for a really awesome boss.  Tuesday around 3pm I went to my manager and said "Dave, I need a personal day off tomorrow. Family emergency."   He didn't ask any questions, just said "take care of your family." and told me to leave early.

Thanks to that kind of cool bossitude, I was able to drive my wife and mother-in-law 2hrs through a blizzard to see the MIL's sister just a couple hours before she passed away.

When people ask me why I've passed up opportunities within the company that would pay me more money, but would require me to report to a different boss, stuff like this is why.

I think Whole Foods could maybe have been a little more flexible, but as many have pointed out, there's probably more to the story than what we're seeing in TFA. Maybe she has a history of using her "special needs" child as an excuse to leave early, not show up, etc etc.


Depending on the "special" need missing more days than average is not necessarily an excuse. I drive the short bus (so called, but a misnomer, it's actually a mini-bus). And you'd be amazed how often those kids come home from school early or miss days entirely. 

 Usually it's things like therapy, which they have to have in spades to make even minor progress at things the rest of us take for granted. Sometimes it's a scheduled medical procedure or major surgery. Other times it's because the kid freaked out and wouldn't calm down. You generally don't keep them at school if they can't be kept with the other kids because they're hitting everyone in reach because they are upset (and they generally hit as hard as they feel like, which can start getting dangerous around 4th-6th grade depending on the size of the child.)

 Or perhaps they are medically fragile and have to have a nurse 24/7 to even stay *alive*. Or maybe they had a seizure, massive/dangerous blood sugar drop, suddenly stopped breathing, went into cardiac arrest.... seriously the list goes on.

 I have a ton of sympathy for special needs parents, I honestly don't think I could do it myself. I am amazed at any parent that can hold down a normal job while doing this because at any moment you may get a call from the school saying anything from "Your kid won't calm down we need you to come get them." to "Your kid was hit by another kid and needs to go home." to "Your kid had a seizure, we called the ambulance."

Now I agree though, if she's gaming the system. Fark her, hard. There are a lot of parents in the situations above who get screwed because of a$$holes like that.
 
2014-02-06 03:29:23 PM
ocd002: But the sick thing is there are people siding with the store instead of saying, "what kind of country are we if instead of making sure people can take care of their kids while still keeping their jobs, we pick on the person who couldn't leave their kids home alone to come to work."


Please explain what is "sick" about expecting people to take responsibility for their own lives and their own choices? If I had kids, I would never expect it to be my employer's problem to make accommodations if something happened with them. Ditto anything else - if I need to be out for a funeral, it's on me to find coverage for that day, or any other day I miss work and I'm physically capable of picking up a phone. Your employer isn't responsible for your life.
 
2014-02-06 05:40:29 PM

ongbok: MadAzza: How many of those who picketed Whole Foods in support of this woman's habit of missing work also offered to look after her child next time she needs help?

I'm going to guess "zero."

In these types of discussions someone will always make this exact dumbass comment. Do you think this woman would let a complete stranger look after her kid? If she did, and something happened, then you would be screaming for her head. And do you think it would be appropriate for a complete stranger to offer to look after her kid?


How do you know they were all "complete strangers"? And if someone does offer, it shows *real* good will. It doesn't mean she has to accept.

However, any time you use a large daycare facility, you are, in effect, turning your child over to strangers. Same with sending them to school.
 
2014-02-06 07:16:24 PM

MadAzza: ongbok: MadAzza: How many of those who picketed Whole Foods in support of this woman's habit of missing work also offered to look after her child next time she needs help?

I'm going to guess "zero."

In these types of discussions someone will always make this exact dumbass comment. Do you think this woman would let a complete stranger look after her kid? If she did, and something happened, then you would be screaming for her head. And do you think it would be appropriate for a complete stranger to offer to look after her kid?

How do you know they were all "complete strangers"? And if someone does offer, it shows *real* good will. It doesn't mean she has to accept.

However, any time you use a large daycare facility, you are, in effect, turning your child over to strangers. Same with sending them to school.


Leave it alone, you are showing your mentality and intelligence level by trying to argue that idiotic point you made.
 
2014-02-06 08:30:58 PM

ongbok: MadAzza: ongbok: MadAzza: How many of those who picketed Whole Foods in support of this woman's habit of missing work also offered to look after her child next time she needs help?

I'm going to guess "zero."

In these types of discussions someone will always make this exact dumbass comment. Do you think this woman would let a complete stranger look after her kid? If she did, and something happened, then you would be screaming for her head. And do you think it would be appropriate for a complete stranger to offer to look after her kid?

How do you know they were all "complete strangers"? And if someone does offer, it shows *real* good will. It doesn't mean she has to accept.

However, any time you use a large daycare facility, you are, in effect, turning your child over to strangers. Same with sending them to school.

Leave it alone, you are showing your mentality and intelligence level by trying to argue that idiotic point you made.


OK, little girl, you clearly aren't ready for adult conversations. You want to keep tossing pointless insults and avoiding any real discussion of how to solve the problem? Knock yourself out.

I'm not sure why you're so immature and hostile. You're clearly not interested in what others in the child-care field have to say and only want to project what you believe them to think, so go have fun whining to any friends you still have and strangers on the internet. 'Bye-'bye.
 
2014-02-06 10:05:26 PM

MadAzza: ongbok: MadAzza: ongbok: MadAzza: How many of those who picketed Whole Foods in support of this woman's habit of missing work also offered to look after her child next time she needs help?

I'm going to guess "zero."

In these types of discussions someone will always make this exact dumbass comment. Do you think this woman would let a complete stranger look after her kid? If she did, and something happened, then you would be screaming for her head. And do you think it would be appropriate for a complete stranger to offer to look after her kid?

How do you know they were all "complete strangers"? And if someone does offer, it shows *real* good will. It doesn't mean she has to accept.

However, any time you use a large daycare facility, you are, in effect, turning your child over to strangers. Same with sending them to school.

Leave it alone, you are showing your mentality and intelligence level by trying to argue that idiotic point you made.

OK, little girl, you clearly aren't ready for adult conversations. You want to keep tossing pointless insults and avoiding any real discussion of how to solve the problem? Knock yourself out.

I'm not sure why you're so immature and hostile. You're clearly not interested in what others in the child-care field have to say and only want to project what you believe them to think, so go have fun whining to any friends you still have and strangers on the internet. 'Bye-'bye.


It's not a pointless insult, if you can't tell the difference from leaving your child with a childcare professional and some random person at a protest, you are a dope.

And as for the protest, those were strangers to her. Those weren't Whole Foods employees protesting, that was a labor group protesting. Study it out.

But you are funny, you think it is appropriate to walk up to complete strangers and ask them to watch their kid. And you never said what people in child care have to say about it, you made a statement saying that the protestors, complete strangers I mind you, at a protest that happened after she was fired should have offered to watch her child on the day she missed. Think about that. Were they going to use their time machine to go back in time to help her? Now do you see why I called you an idiot?
 
2014-02-07 01:01:28 AM

ongbok: Now do you see why I called you an idiot?


I doubt he does.
 
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