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(Kotaku)   13 year old boy rapes his 8 year old sister. Let's place the blame where it truly belongs, the Xbox he used to watch the porn that inspired him   (kotaku.com) divider line 222
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13427 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Feb 2014 at 4:20 PM (29 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-02-05 02:05:56 PM
filmdump.files.wordpress.com

/Thanksgiving is going to be awkward in that house for a few years...
 
2014-02-05 02:44:31 PM
ok, so because the XBox has a web browser and a DVD player that means it made the kid watch porn?  where were the parents in all this?
 
2014-02-05 02:54:50 PM
They don't call it the Xbone for nothing.
 
2014-02-05 03:03:45 PM

ManateeGag: ok, so because the XBox has a web browser and a DVD player that means it made the kid watch porn?


Apparently

ManateeGag: where were the parents in all this?


The Kinect was watching him
 
2014-02-05 03:06:11 PM
 The gut-wrenching case adds fuel to the controversy there over whether and how access to online pornography should be controlled.

As opposed to the actual controversy of allowing farking irresponsible people to breed and let their crotch blossoms run amok.
 
2014-02-05 03:24:30 PM
Well-adjusted, empathetic and reasonable 13 year olds don't rape their siblings just because they viewed some pornography. At 13 they know enough to understand how these actions are wrong and can impact another person.

I suspect there's more to the story here.
 
2014-02-05 03:57:19 PM
So I take it Kotaku doesn't write about games anymore?
 
2014-02-05 04:05:05 PM

miss diminutive: Well-adjusted, empathetic and reasonable 13 year olds don't rape their siblings just because they viewed some pornography. At 13 they know enough to understand how these actions are wrong and can impact another person.

I suspect there's more to the story here.


My wife used to work with underaged sex offenders.  Almost every single one was a victim of sexual abuse themselves, exposed to pornography and sex from a young age, often by relatives or close family friends.  Stories that were extremely difficult to listen to.

And then there was, every once in a while, the genuine sociopath with good parents that just had absolutely no empathy and no compunction in getting whatever he wanted.

So there is most likely a pedophile at the end of this story, too.
 
2014-02-05 04:23:04 PM
Giggity???
content6.flixster.com

/I'm KIDDING
 
2014-02-05 04:24:59 PM
Was she hot?  I mean if we're going to figure out who or what to blame we have to check all the angles.
 
2014-02-05 04:25:10 PM

Mike_LowELL: So I take it Kotaku doesn't write about games anymore?


No click bait material in doing that.
 
2014-02-05 04:25:12 PM
Thanks, Obama
 
2014-02-05 04:25:23 PM

miss diminutive: Well-adjusted, empathetic and reasonable 13 year olds don't rape their siblings just because they viewed some pornography. At 13 they know enough to understand how these actions are wrong and can impact another person.

I suspect there's more to the story here.


I never understand how people can't seem to grasp that millions of kids watch porn and grow up to be pretty much normal.
 
2014-02-05 04:25:35 PM
Agreed, simply being exposed to adult material does nothing.
 
2014-02-05 04:25:45 PM
I blame the Grapist skit.
 
2014-02-05 04:26:22 PM

factoryconnection: And then there was, every once in a while, the genuine sociopath with good parents that just had absolutely no empathy and no compunction in getting whatever he wanted.



*sigh* Is it wrong that THAT is the release I needed to hear? That's my brother, hurray.
 
2014-02-05 04:27:10 PM

LowbrowDeluxe: Was she hot?  I mean if we're going to figure out who or what to blame we have to check all the angles.


She was wearing a skirt.
 
2014-02-05 04:27:44 PM

Mike_LowELL: So I take it Kotaku doesn't write about games anymore?


Why would they? Reviews don't get page-views. People would rather go to youtube and watch the gameplay instead of simply reading about it.
 
2014-02-05 04:28:17 PM
A detective told the court that "this is one of those tragic sexual experimentation cases."

WTF??? SEXUAL EXPERIMENTATION??  O_o

Dudes - what's going on over there?
 
2014-02-05 04:28:17 PM
creamcityradio.com
 
2014-02-05 04:29:11 PM

Oldiron_79: I blame the Grapist skit.


Clearly such vulgar material should be banned...For decades and decades and decades and DECADES!
 
2014-02-05 04:29:41 PM
just castrate him. and i mean now.
 
2014-02-05 04:30:05 PM
I watched porn with my friends whenever we could get it when I was that age. Never had any desire to tape anyone, especially a sibling, ewww.

Anyone else remember when you could use a matchbook to wedge the knob on those analog cable boxes between channels and get playboy to come in?
 
2014-02-05 04:30:11 PM

LoneVVolf: [filmdump.files.wordpress.com image 850x459]

/Thanksgiving is going to be awkward in that house for a few years...


Thanksgiving in Britain is always an awkward occasion.
 
2014-02-05 04:31:37 PM

Mike_LowELL: So I take it Kotaku doesn't write about games anymore?


Good morning, Rip Van Winkle.
 
2014-02-05 04:31:44 PM

netweavr: Mike_LowELL: So I take it Kotaku doesn't write about games anymore?

Why would they? Reviews don't get page-views. People would rather go to youtube and watch the gameplay instead of simply reading about it.


Is that true? I never watch youtube footage of a game I'm looking to buy. I'd much rather read a decent (not blatantly paid for) review, or even better, a slew of reviews via metacritic. Is that the minority position?
 
2014-02-05 04:31:47 PM

ManateeGag: where were the parents in all this?


At home perhaps? The porn watching occurred at a friend's house.
 
2014-02-05 04:32:26 PM

randomX: *sigh* Is it wrong that THAT is the release I needed to hear? That's my brother, hurray.


Are you saying your brother is a sociopath?  Good lord that must be a burden on your heart, because even the ones that aren't raping or murdering or whatever are fleecing and cheating people in all sorts of ways.

That's tough to be around and have in your life however directly or tangentially.
 
2014-02-05 04:32:30 PM
4,000 holes and he had to go for his eight-year-old sister's?
 
2014-02-05 04:32:49 PM

miss diminutive: Well-adjusted, empathetic and reasonable 13 year olds don't rape their siblings just because they viewed some pornography. At 13 they know enough to understand how these actions are wrong and can impact another person.

I suspect there's more to the story here.


Yeah, I started looking at porn around that age...and it made me want to bang fully developed (or over developed) adult female porn stars who had years of experience working a cock.

Not, "well, P.J. Sparxx or Jeanna Fine aren't around, guess I'll rape the nearest child."
 
2014-02-05 04:34:04 PM
Crap, this happened in the UK. Murdoch's tree wasting enterprises are going to have a field day with this.
 
2014-02-05 04:34:20 PM

Agent Smiths Laugh: [creamcityradio.com image 504x342]


Perfect
 
2014-02-05 04:34:21 PM

miss diminutive: Well-adjusted, empathetic and reasonable 13 year olds don't rape their siblings just because they viewed some pornography. At 13 they know enough to understand how these actions are wrong and can impact another person.


Hell, I watched as much porn as I could get my hands on when I was that age and not once did I ever rape either of my two younger sisters, not even a little bit.

Granted that was before the internet (as we know it) came along so I didn't have easy access to vast quantities of every type of porn imaginable, but I doubt that would have changed anything.  Also my parents wouldn't have been stupid enough to let me have unsupervised internet access.
 
2014-02-05 04:34:25 PM

Belias: ManateeGag: where were the parents in all this?

At home perhaps? The porn watching occurred at a friend's house.


Uh, then sue the friend's Xbox. Duh.
 
2014-02-05 04:34:30 PM
I blame /b/ and Spiderman.
 
2014-02-05 04:34:49 PM

James10952001: I watched porn with my friends whenever we could get it when I was that age. Never had any desire to tape anyone, especially a sibling, ewww.

Anyone else remember when you could use a matchbook to wedge the knob on those analog cable boxes between channels and get playboy to come in?


If I had the opportunity, I would have taped everything I could - except my sister.  Eeewwww.
 
2014-02-05 04:35:51 PM

randomX: factoryconnection: And then there was, every once in a while, the genuine sociopath with good parents that just had absolutely no empathy and no compunction in getting whatever he wanted.


*sigh* Is it wrong that THAT is the release I needed to hear? That's my brother, hurray.


Sadly, this is a close fit to my brother too.  Sociopathic, complete lack of empathy, physically abused me...
 
2014-02-05 04:37:06 PM

miss diminutive: Well-adjusted, empathetic and reasonable 13 year olds


Well that's certainly something that doesn't exist and hasn't existed, ever.

I mean, by 15 or 16 it's more arguable, but 13-year-olds function entirely on informed morality and reward/punishment conditioning.  They don't really  have innate morality stemming from their own reason and empathy.
 
2014-02-05 04:39:07 PM
So Xbox = sister rape. Got it, thanks.

- Sony
 
2014-02-05 04:39:28 PM
Sorry, need something a little lighthearted after that
.........look at that face!! Such a goooood boooyyyyy!! Yessss youuuu arrreeeee!!

sp.yimg.com
 
2014-02-05 04:40:58 PM

btraz70: Sorry, need something a little lighthearted after that
.........look at that face!! Such a goooood boooyyyyy!! Yessss youuuu arrreeeee!!

[sp.yimg.com image 219x300]


That's supposed to be a boy?
 
2014-02-05 04:41:00 PM

durbnpoisn: James10952001: I watched porn with my friends whenever we could get it when I was that age. Never had any desire to tape anyone, especially a sibling, ewww.

Anyone else remember when you could use a matchbook to wedge the knob on those analog cable boxes between channels and get playboy to come in?

If I had the opportunity, I would have taped everything I could - except my sister.  Eeewwww.


Oh god dammit. I really shouldn't comment on fark with my damn phone. Why is there no edit feature?
 
2014-02-05 04:43:09 PM

James10952001: Why is there no edit feature?


So that people can never go back and conceal the derp that they trotted out on some subject or other. We hold people accountable.
 
2014-02-05 04:45:07 PM
Brought to you by Sony! The PS4 never raped anyone!
 
2014-02-05 04:45:31 PM
I am skeptical of this story, as it seems tailor made to further an agenda.

If it did happen as reported, authorities need to be looking for the adult who raped the 13 year old. Because viewing porn does not make one rape an eight year old. A sock, maybe. But not a prepubescent sibling.
 
2014-02-05 04:47:20 PM
He said it was because she "couldn't remember stuff."  I somehow doubt either porn or xbone taught him that.
 
2014-02-05 04:47:36 PM
Propaganda to enforce their internet restrictions.

This world is getting so shiatty. At least things are like a pendulum and hopefully the pendulum swings back to prosperous in a few years.
 
2014-02-05 04:50:38 PM
It's a shame those in power can't just blame the Jews or something.  Finding a scapegoat subject of the week has got to become so tiring!
 
2014-02-05 04:50:40 PM
The little freak should be euthanized.  Nothing good can come of letting it grow into an adult.
 
2014-02-05 04:55:46 PM

BigNumber12: James10952001: Why is there no edit feature?

So that people can never go back and conceal the derp that they trotted out on some subject or other. We hold people accountable.


When you edit a comment on Facebook, it's still possible to go back and see the original text. I hate Facebook but this is one thing they did right.
 
2014-02-05 04:56:47 PM
Really, why is the X-Box so prominent in this story? He could have just as easily viewed the porn on a smart phone or tablet.
 
m00
2014-02-05 04:57:05 PM
Why are video games still legal???
 
2014-02-05 04:58:40 PM

James10952001: BigNumber12: James10952001: Why is there no edit feature?

So that people can never go back and conceal the derp that they trotted out on some subject or other. We hold people accountable.

When you edit a comment on Facebook, it's still possible to go back and see the original text. I hate Facebook but this is one thing they did right.


In other words:

durbnpoisn.comli.com
 
2014-02-05 05:00:00 PM

JesusJuice: The little freak should be euthanized.  Nothing good can come of letting it grow into an adult.


gifrific.com
 
2014-02-05 05:00:04 PM

James10952001: I watched porn with my friends whenever we could get it when I was that age. Never had any desire to tape anyone, especially a sibling, ewww.

Anyone else remember when you could use a matchbook to wedge the knob on those analog cable boxes between channels and get playboy to come in?


t1.gstatic.com
Good memories
 
2014-02-05 05:00:15 PM
Achievement Unlocked: All in the Family
 
2014-02-05 05:00:45 PM

m00: Why are video games still legal???


Why are humans still legal?
 
m00
2014-02-05 05:05:23 PM

Agent Smiths Laugh: m00: Why are video games still legal???

Why are humans still legal?


Give it 5 years
 
2014-02-05 05:08:21 PM
From TFA
The member of parliament for the area where the assault occurred called the case "breathtakingly horrible" and called on Internet service providers to "recognise that they have greater responsibilities for controlling access to porn."

Or you could call on parents to not raise amoral little shiats who think it's OK to rape their younger siblings. There's that. Can we try that?
 
gja [TotalFark]
2014-02-05 05:10:05 PM

Agent Smiths Laugh: [creamcityradio.com image 504x342]


Good God. I really need to fave you for some of your choices.
 
2014-02-05 05:11:45 PM
I would bet there are tens of thousands of 13 year old boys that have watched porn and didn't rape anyone, let alone their sister.

I'm pretty sure this boy is just farked in the head. No pun intended.
 
2014-02-05 05:14:27 PM

BigNumber12: James10952001: Why is there no edit feature?

So that people can never go back and conceal the derp that they trotted out on some subject or other. We hold people accountable.


Or you know, have time limit on editing.
 
2014-02-05 05:15:54 PM

reillan: He said it was because she "couldn't remember stuff."  I somehow doubt either porn or xbone taught him that.


Daddy more than likely did...
 
2014-02-05 05:18:07 PM
i670.photobucket.com
 
2014-02-05 05:18:23 PM

James10952001: I watched porn with my friends whenever we could get it when I was that age. Never had any desire to tape anyone, especially a sibling, ewww.

Anyone else remember when you could use a matchbook to wedge the knob on those analog cable boxes between channels and get playboy to come in?


Didn't have that, but a friend's stepdad had a satellite dish (the 10ft diameter one) and all we had to do was force the on screen display to stay on and we'd get any premium channel, HBO, porn, etcetera for free.

We were all between 11 and 14 and none of us did anything like that. Granted we also had parents that taught us things like values and behaving decently. Wanting to see naked people is part of puberty, raping your younger sibling after warching porn isn't.

/NTTAWWT
//I was joking.
///OK. I'll go sit over there.
 
2014-02-05 05:19:48 PM

factoryconnection: miss diminutive: Well-adjusted, empathetic and reasonable 13 year olds don't rape their siblings just because they viewed some pornography. At 13 they know enough to understand how these actions are wrong and can impact another person.

I suspect there's more to the story here.

My wife used to work with underaged sex offenders.  Almost every single one was a victim of sexual abuse themselves, exposed to pornography and sex from a young age, often by relatives or close family friends.  Stories that were extremely difficult to listen to.

And then there was, every once in a while, the genuine sociopath with good parents that just had absolutely no empathy and no compunction in getting whatever he wanted.

So there is most likely a pedophile at the end of this story, too.


I tried getting my wife's aunt to understand that when we discussed her 10 yro son's sexual obsession, and how he should tell his psychiatrist about all he was up to.  She kept tight control on what he discussed in sessions and anything sexual wasn't permitted.  After they moved out, his behavior got so crazy worse, he is a ward of the state right now.  By 13, he was into sick perverted stuff that most adults find too disgusting, and would get him on FARK.  I know he didn't get any of those ideas in my house, I don't believe his mom led him to any of those things, however his father may have introduced him to it in one way or another.

I'm not looking forward to him getting out.
 
2014-02-05 05:25:08 PM
Don't link to this clickbait shiat.  There may be real journalists discussing the story, but you won't find them on the gawker media network.
 
2014-02-05 05:27:51 PM
The problem I have in times like these it that a lot of folks seem to react to media scare-mongering by getting overly defensive-

Yeah, clearly a kid's parents should be monitoring their children's activities.  I don't see anyone saying otherwise, but does that mean that we absolutely cannot have a talk about the effect that pornography and violent video games can have on a person (particularly a young person with a developing brain)?

Apparently not, since apparently everyone who, surprise surprise, also played violent video games and looked and porn at a young age, needs to convince themselves as much as anyone that they turned out A-OK.

Hence it is disturbing when the reaction on sites like Reddit and Fark to a media story of something like "violent video games: maybe they're not the best?" results in mass hysteria about how the government is going to take their precious porn/FPS games away (which will never happen, btw)

Forgive me if none of this applies to this particular thread, I didn't bother to read it ; )
 
2014-02-05 05:28:52 PM

lack of warmth: factoryconnection: miss diminutive: Well-adjusted, empathetic and reasonable 13 year olds don't rape their siblings just because they viewed some pornography. At 13 they know enough to understand how these actions are wrong and can impact another person.

I suspect there's more to the story here.

My wife used to work with underaged sex offenders.  Almost every single one was a victim of sexual abuse themselves, exposed to pornography and sex from a young age, often by relatives or close family friends.  Stories that were extremely difficult to listen to.

And then there was, every once in a while, the genuine sociopath with good parents that just had absolutely no empathy and no compunction in getting whatever he wanted.

So there is most likely a pedophile at the end of this story, too.

I tried getting my wife's aunt to understand that when we discussed her 10 yro son's sexual obsession, and how he should tell his psychiatrist about all he was up to.  She kept tight control on what he discussed in sessions and anything sexual wasn't permitted.  After they moved out, his behavior got so crazy worse, he is a ward of the state right now.  By 13, he was into sick perverted stuff that most adults find too disgusting, and would get him on FARK.  I know he didn't get any of those ideas in my house, I don't believe his mom led him to any of those things, however his father may have introduced him to it in one way or another.

I'm not looking forward to him getting out.


I don't think you can get someone into the really farked up stuff. Either they're wired that way or not. I've had enough friends send me the most farked up "porn" they could find, or set it as my wallpaper or alter my bookmarks and home page as a joke. Never made me want to fark a goat or an old fat guy or anything else like that.
 
2014-02-05 05:29:27 PM

randomX: That's my brother, hurray.


Mine too.   : (
 
2014-02-05 05:30:41 PM

harleyquinnical: randomX: factoryconnection: And then there was, every once in a while, the genuine sociopath with good parents that just had absolutely no empathy and no compunction in getting whatever he wanted.


*sigh* Is it wrong that THAT is the release I needed to hear? That's my brother, hurray.

Sadly, this is a close fit to my brother too.  Sociopathic, complete lack of empathy, physically abused me...


Same here.  I don't speak to my family because of the things they let my older brother get away with.  (I was never sexually abused, Thank FSM, but I took beatings from him.)  When I pleaded with my father to do something about it at the age of 16, he said, "Well, what do you expect me to do--he's bigger than me!"

/Thanks, Dad
 
2014-02-05 05:31:15 PM
[AMUSING] 15 Delightful Friendships That Bridge The Age Gap (Featured Partner)
 
2014-02-05 05:32:34 PM

FraggleStickCar: The problem I have in times like these it that a lot of folks seem to react to media scare-mongering by getting overly defensive-

Yeah, clearly a kid's parents should be monitoring their children's activities.  I don't see anyone saying otherwise, but does that mean that we absolutely cannot have a talk about the effect that pornography and violent video games can have on a person (particularly a young person with a developing brain)?

Apparently not, since apparently everyone who, surprise surprise, also played violent video games and looked and porn at a young age, needs to convince themselves as much as anyone that they turned out A-OK.

Hence it is disturbing when the reaction on sites like Reddit and Fark to a media story of something like "violent video games: maybe they're not the best?" results in mass hysteria about how the government is going to take their precious porn/FPS games away (which will never happen, btw)

Forgive me if none of this applies to this particular thread, I didn't bother to read it ; )


It's one thing if only a small number of kids were exposed to that stuff and many showed negative effects, but so many adolescent males have seen porn that I'd dare say some exposure to it is a normal part of growing up and natural sexual curiosity during puberty. If looking at porn turned kids into rapists, we'd be surrounded by rapists everywhere.
 
2014-02-05 05:32:48 PM

factoryconnection: Are you saying your brother is a sociopath? Good lord that must be a burden on your heart, because even the ones that aren't raping or murdering or whatever are fleecing and cheating people in all sorts of ways.That's tough to be around and have in your life however directly or tangentially.


This wasn't directed to me, but yeah--it is rough.  Damn near killed my parents when he finally got caught.

/ex-cop kidnapping and raping little girls at gunpoint is what he finally got caught at.  Nice guy, huh?
 
2014-02-05 05:33:04 PM
If only there was a way for parents to block that built-in browser. It's just too bad Microsoft didn't think to include any sort of controls like that for parents.
 
2014-02-05 05:37:45 PM
`Playing Devil's Advocate here...

Was what happened actual rape, as in, penetration of some sort? Or was it two young kids playing doctor? TFA is vague on this point.

Kids DO touch each other. They do experiment with their body parts with each other. There's a difference between normal childhood sexual experimentation, and rape.

Now, granted, this 13-year-old should be past the point of playing doctor, but some boys do mature more slowly and it's possible he was still mentally at that "your body is different from my body" mode.

I just think we're too quick to call anything vaguely sexual "rape" these days. If it was just "you touch mine and I'll touch yours" that's a lot different than "lay down and let me put this in you."

Again; Just asking a question. Not defending the little freak.
 
2014-02-05 05:38:17 PM

jso2897: LoneVVolf: [filmdump.files.wordpress.com image 850x459]

/Thanksgiving is going to be awkward in that house for a few years...

Thanksgiving in Britain is always an awkward occasion.


hahahahahahahaha
 
2014-02-05 05:39:01 PM

jso2897: A detective told the court that "this is one of those tragic sexual experimentation cases."

WTF??? SEXUAL EXPERIMENTATION??  O_o

Dudes - what's going on over there?


That's the line that made me ask the previous question, actually.
 
2014-02-05 05:43:13 PM
Let he who has never raped their sister after watching porn, cast the first.....
i.dailymail.co.uk
AHHHHHHHHH!!!!!
 
2014-02-05 05:43:38 PM

miss diminutive: Well-adjusted, empathetic and reasonable 13 year olds don't rape their siblings just because they viewed some pornography. At 13 they know enough to understand how these actions are wrong and can impact another person.

I suspect there's more to the story here.


This. I too watched Skinamax back in the day and I too raped no one.
 
2014-02-05 05:43:40 PM

JesusJuice: The little freak should be euthanized.  Nothing good can come of letting it grow into an adult.


Why not go the Kim Jong Un route and execute the entire family?  Odds are, you'll nab at least one extra pedo that way.
 
2014-02-05 05:43:48 PM

James10952001: lack of warmth: factoryconnection: miss diminutive: Well-adjusted, empathetic and reasonable 13 year olds don't rape their siblings just because they viewed some pornography. At 13 they know enough to understand how these actions are wrong and can impact another person.

I suspect there's more to the story here.

My wife used to work with underaged sex offenders.  Almost every single one was a victim of sexual abuse themselves, exposed to pornography and sex from a young age, often by relatives or close family friends.  Stories that were extremely difficult to listen to.

And then there was, every once in a while, the genuine sociopath with good parents that just had absolutely no empathy and no compunction in getting whatever he wanted.

So there is most likely a pedophile at the end of this story, too.

I tried getting my wife's aunt to understand that when we discussed her 10 yro son's sexual obsession, and how he should tell his psychiatrist about all he was up to.  She kept tight control on what he discussed in sessions and anything sexual wasn't permitted.  After they moved out, his behavior got so crazy worse, he is a ward of the state right now.  By 13, he was into sick perverted stuff that most adults find too disgusting, and would get him on FARK.  I know he didn't get any of those ideas in my house, I don't believe his mom led him to any of those things, however his father may have introduced him to it in one way or another.

I'm not looking forward to him getting out.

I don't think you can get someone into the really farked up stuff. Either they're wired that way or not. I've had enough friends send me the most farked up "porn" they could find, or set it as my wallpaper or alter my bookmarks and home page as a joke. Never made me want to fark a goat or an old fat guy or anything else like that.


You can get somebody fixated on the farked up shiat if you abuse them as a child.

There are plenty of people sexually abused as kids who have the compulsion to abuse other children but don't, and here is the important part, follow through.

Raped children may fantasize about rape later in life, and feel shame about it. They may be aroused and not know why. (My best counselor had to explain this to me)

They may feel inclined to rape others (as previous poster pointed out, a kid doesn't learn that "she won't remember" by himself). This is how the cycle perpetuates. This is why children take other children. (Majority of the time)

My money is on this boy having been abused, by somebody close, and parents ignored it when reported. So he assumed same thing would happen when he tried. Learned by example, only he got caught.

My heart goes out to the little girl. I sincerely hope she gets the therapy she will need.

/sexual abuse survivor.
//not a csb/s
///i now need a serious MLP fix to cleanse my mental palette.
 
2014-02-05 05:47:03 PM
img.fark.net

...well?
 
2014-02-05 05:50:59 PM
New game on X Box "Incest" a game the whole family can play.
 
2014-02-05 05:51:47 PM

miss diminutive: Well-adjusted, empathetic and reasonable 13 year olds don't rape their siblings just because they viewed some pornography. At 13 they know enough to understand how these actions are wrong and can impact another person.

I suspect there's more to the story here.


She was hot?
 
2014-02-05 05:53:27 PM

ZeroCorpse: `Playing Devil's Advocate here...

Was what happened actual rape, as in, penetration of some sort? Or was it two young kids playing doctor? TFA is vague on this point.

Kids DO touch each other. They do experiment with their body parts with each other. There's a difference between normal childhood sexual experimentation, and rape.

Now, granted, this 13-year-old should be past the point of playing doctor, but some boys do mature more slowly and it's possible he was still mentally at that "your body is different from my body" mode.

I just think we're too quick to call anything vaguely sexual "rape" these days. If it was just "you touch mine and I'll touch yours" that's a lot different than "lay down and let me put this in you."

Again; Just asking a question. Not defending the little freak.


An 8 yr old cannot consent, so yes it's rape.
 
2014-02-05 05:53:31 PM
 
2014-02-05 05:54:37 PM
I'm amazed I have to say it.
 
2014-02-05 05:55:04 PM
Christ, now there's 8 year olds having more sex than me.
 
2014-02-05 05:55:58 PM
I find I want more information into how this act was discovered. I think rape in the idea that he held her down tore her underwear off is less likely than a case of sexual experimentation that resulted in him having actual sex with his sister. I am guessing at some point she had wanted the play to end most likely at the point of penetration and he did not stop. I guess sometime after the event she told a parent. I am still wondering how as a parent you go from finding out your son had sex with your daughter to calling the police to have him arrested. For the wellbeing of the family wouldn't the parents try to correct the issue quietly and quickly before bringing in law enforcement? This event has been dragged out for I am guessing months with all of society expressing how horrible this was and how she was victimized by her own brother. She is going to be damaged now for life when it could have been over and recovered from more quickly. I would have handled the situation differently which I think would have had less impact on the development of both children.
 
2014-02-05 05:56:44 PM

cookiefleck: ZeroCorpse: `Playing Devil's Advocate here...

Was what happened actual rape, as in, penetration of some sort? Or was it two young kids playing doctor? TFA is vague on this point.

Kids DO touch each other. They do experiment with their body parts with each other. There's a difference between normal childhood sexual experimentation, and rape.

Now, granted, this 13-year-old should be past the point of playing doctor, but some boys do mature more slowly and it's possible he was still mentally at that "your body is different from my body" mode.

I just think we're too quick to call anything vaguely sexual "rape" these days. If it was just "you touch mine and I'll touch yours" that's a lot different than "lay down and let me put this in you."

Again; Just asking a question. Not defending the little freak.

An 8 yr old cannot consent, so yes it's rape.


Also, this is entirely different from, say, two eight year olds. The 13 year old was in a position of power over the eight year old both physically and mentally.
 
2014-02-05 05:56:56 PM

cookiefleck: ZeroCorpse: `Playing Devil's Advocate here...

Was what happened actual rape, as in, penetration of some sort? Or was it two young kids playing doctor? TFA is vague on this point.

Kids DO touch each other. They do experiment with their body parts with each other. There's a difference between normal childhood sexual experimentation, and rape.

Now, granted, this 13-year-old should be past the point of playing doctor, but some boys do mature more slowly and it's possible he was still mentally at that "your body is different from my body" mode.

I just think we're too quick to call anything vaguely sexual "rape" these days. If it was just "you touch mine and I'll touch yours" that's a lot different than "lay down and let me put this in you."

Again; Just asking a question. Not defending the little freak.


An 8 yr old cannot consent, so yes it's rape.


And also, he knew that she "couldn't remember stuff" so he was also aware that it was wrong.
 
2014-02-05 06:00:23 PM

Profedius: I find I want more information into how this act was discovered. I think rape in the idea that he held her down tore her underwear off is less likely than a case of sexual experimentation that resulted in him having actual sex with his sister. I am guessing at some point she had wanted the play to end most likely at the point of penetration and he did not stop. I guess sometime after the event she told a parent. I am still wondering how as a parent you go from finding out your son had sex with your daughter to calling the police to have him arrested. For the wellbeing of the family wouldn't the parents try to correct the issue quietly and quickly before bringing in law enforcement? This event has been dragged out for I am guessing months with all of society expressing how horrible this was and how she was victimized by her own brother. She is going to be damaged now for life when it could have been over and recovered from more quickly. I would have handled the situation differently which I think would have had less impact on the development of both children.


Oh my god. Parents correct the issue? Not report rape to the police ?

What are you, a catholic priest or a penn state alum?

I hope you realize that "letting the parents handle it" is how young rapists continue raping longer before they are caught. Though the amount of effort you went into qualifying how this situation might be okie dokie makes me think you won't get it.

Christ on sale, and I thought some of the other comments here were retarded...
 
2014-02-05 06:00:46 PM
Thi

Profedius: I find I want more information into how this act was discovered. I think rape in the idea that he held her down tore her underwear off is less likely than a case of sexual experimentation that resulted in him having actual sex with his sister. I am guessing at some point she had wanted the play to end most likely at the point of penetration and he did not stop. I guess sometime after the event she told a parent. I am still wondering how as a parent you go from finding out your son had sex with your daughter to calling the police to have him arrested. For the wellbeing of the family wouldn't the parents try to correct the issue quietly and quickly before bringing in law enforcement? This event has been dragged out for I am guessing months with all of society expressing how horrible this was and how she was victimized by her own brother. She is going to be damaged now for life when it could have been over and recovered from more quickly. I would have handled the situation differently which I think would have had less impact on the development of both children.


her brother farked her because "she was small" and "knew that she wouldn't remember". Please RTFA before you get all MRA on an obvious sociopath.
 
2014-02-05 06:01:03 PM

James10952001: lack of warmth:

I tried getting my wife's aunt to understand that when we discussed her 10 yro son's sexual obsession, and how he should tell his psychiatrist about all he was up to.  She kept tight control on what he discussed in sessions and anything sexual wasn't permitted.  After they moved out, his behavior got so crazy worse, he is a ward of the state right now.  By 13, he was into sick perverted stuff that most adults find too disgusting, and would get him on FARK.  I know he didn't get any of those ideas in my house, I don't believe his mom led him to any of those things, however his father may have introduced him to it in one way or another.

I'm not looking forward to him getting out.

I don't think you can get someone into the really farked up stuff. Either they're wired that way or not. I've had enough friends send me the most farked up "porn" they could find, or set it as my wallpaper or alter my bookmarks and home page as a joke. Never made me want to fark a goat or an old fat guy or anything else like that.


I don't necessarily think his dad introduced the crazy crap, he might've, but I think he did something.  As for how far someone goes, it's just how far they choose to go down that rabbit hole.  We've all been exposed to more than we find arousing.  I could be wrong and his mom's enabling may have went further than I know for sure it to be, she may have let him search for porn.  What I do know is the kid started masturbating at around 9, however he got really interested in others' bathroom habits, both genders.  He liked to watch small children use the bathroom.

/I'm just grateful my younger kids didn't get victimized by him, my sil's kids weren't so lucky
 
2014-02-05 06:05:47 PM
When I was 8, my friend's sister, who was 11, wanted to "experiment" with me. Well, just touching.  So I can see if the 13 year old is really immature and he did the same kind of thing, it isn't as bad as actual rape.  Still weird though.
/I wish I had that kind of action still!...
 
2014-02-05 06:06:00 PM
 
2014-02-05 06:07:21 PM

vicioushobbit: Profedius: I find I want more information into how this act was discovered. I think rape in the idea that he held her down tore her underwear off is less likely than a case of sexual experimentation that resulted in him having actual sex with his sister. I am guessing at some point she had wanted the play to end most likely at the point of penetration and he did not stop. I guess sometime after the event she told a parent. I am still wondering how as a parent you go from finding out your son had sex with your daughter to calling the police to have him arrested. For the wellbeing of the family wouldn't the parents try to correct the issue quietly and quickly before bringing in law enforcement? This event has been dragged out for I am guessing months with all of society expressing how horrible this was and how she was victimized by her own brother. She is going to be damaged now for life when it could have been over and recovered from more quickly. I would have handled the situation differently which I think would have had less impact on the development of both children.

Oh my god. Parents correct the issue? Not report rape to the police ?

What are you, a catholic priest or a penn state alum?

I hope you realize that "letting the parents handle it" is how young rapists continue raping longer before they are caught. Though the amount of effort you went into qualifying how this situation might be okie dokie makes me think you won't get it.

Christ on sale, and I thought some of the other comments here were retarded...


I agree and add, this would also deny the victim the physical and mental health care she needs after being raped, as all doctors and counselors are mandated reporters. They would also have to coach her to shut the hell up and never, ever speak about it because any adult in her school, any coach, any girl scout leader, ect. is also a mandated reporter. Can you comprehend the message this would send to that little girl? Can you understand the damage that would do? Above and beyond the act itself?

I'm feeling a bit sick at the moment thinking of all the children treated in exactly this way. YEAY on the parents, whatever their mistakes may have been in the past, for reporting this. That was absolutely the correct, and ONLY response.
 
2014-02-05 06:09:59 PM

oukewldave: When I was 8, my friend's sister, who was 11, wanted to "experiment" with me. Well, just touching.  So I can see if the 13 year old is really immature and he did the same kind of thing, it isn't as bad as actual rape.  Still weird though.
/I wish I had that kind of action still!...


no he actually admitted to raping her.
 
2014-02-05 06:12:59 PM

browntimmy: Really, why is the X-Box so prominent in this story? He could have just as easily viewed the porn on a smart phone or tablet.


Because it's a Microsoft product.

Microsoft is evil.
 
2014-02-05 06:13:13 PM
You can watch porn on your x-box?
 
2014-02-05 06:15:29 PM

cookiefleck: Profedius: I find I want more information into how this act was discovered. I think rape in the idea that he held her down tore her underwear off is less likely than a case of sexual experimentation that resulted in him having actual sex with his sister. I am guessing at some point she had wanted the play to end most likely at the point of penetration and he did not stop. I guess sometime after the event she told a parent. I am still wondering how as a parent you go from finding out your son had sex with your daughter to calling the police to have him arrested. For the wellbeing of the family wouldn't the parents try to correct the issue quietly and quickly before bringing in law enforcement? This event has been dragged out for I am guessing months with all of society expressing how horrible this was and how she was victimized by her own brother. She is going to be damaged now for life when it could have been over and recovered from more quickly. I would have handled the situation differently which I think would have had less impact on the development of both children.

her brother farked her because "she was small" and "knew that she wouldn't remember". Please RTFA before you get all MRA on an obvious sociopath.


He thought she wouldn't remember, he was proven wrong.  An 8 yro remembers, an 8 yro can talk, the sociopath thought she wouldn't talk because he convinced her to 'play'.
 
2014-02-05 06:15:49 PM

Some Coke Drinking Guy: You can watch porn on your x-box?


and on the Xbox One, it can watch you watch porn.
 
2014-02-05 06:18:02 PM

namegoeshere: vicioushobbit: Profedius: I find I want more information into how this act was discovered. I think rape in the idea that he held her down tore her underwear off is less likely than a case of sexual experimentation that resulted in him having actual sex with his sister. I am guessing at some point she had wanted the play to end most likely at the point of penetration and he did not stop. I guess sometime after the event she told a parent. I am still wondering how as a parent you go from finding out your son had sex with your daughter to calling the police to have him arrested. For the wellbeing of the family wouldn't the parents try to correct the issue quietly and quickly before bringing in law enforcement? This event has been dragged out for I am guessing months with all of society expressing how horrible this was and how she was victimized by her own brother. She is going to be damaged now for life when it could have been over and recovered from more quickly. I would have handled the situation differently which I think would have had less impact on the development of both children.

Oh my god. Parents correct the issue? Not report rape to the police ?

What are you, a catholic priest or a penn state alum?

I hope you realize that "letting the parents handle it" is how young rapists continue raping longer before they are caught. Though the amount of effort you went into qualifying how this situation might be okie dokie makes me think you won't get it.

Christ on sale, and I thought some of the other comments here were retarded...

I agree and add, this would also deny the victim the physical and mental health care she needs after being raped, as all doctors and counselors are mandated reporters. They would also have to coach her to shut the hell up and never, ever speak about it because any adult in her school, any coach, any girl scout leader, ect. is also a mandated reporter. Can you comprehend the message this would send to that little girl? Can you understand t ...


And to add (because the op turned my stomach so) if you handled the situation any differently than by reporting it immediately, not only would you damage the fark out of the victim child and deny them any sort of healthcare, not only would you teach that child that she was completely unimportant and deserved to be the victim of abuse and did NOT deserve any sort of care or justice for having been the victim of abuse, not only would you teach her that nothing bad that happens to her matters, not only would you take her voice away for life and make her unable to speak up about any sort of abuse in the future, not only would you set her up for any and all future victimization, not only would you damage her in this way, but when she did break and tell someone, you would be going to prison for hiding the crime. And you would farking deserve it. And she'd be left in foster care wracked with unimaginable guilt for it.
 
2014-02-05 06:20:20 PM

namegoeshere: And to add (because the op turned my stomach so) if you handled the situation any differently than by reporting it immediately, not only would you damage the fark out of the victim child and deny them any sort of healthcare, not only would you teach that child that she was completely unimportant and deserved to be the victim of abuse and did NOT deserve any sort of care or justice for having been the victim of abuse, not only would you teach her that nothing bad that happens to her matters, not only would you take her voice away for life and make her unable to speak up about any sort of abuse in the future, not only would you set her up for any and all future victimization, not only would you damage her in this way, but when she did break and tell someone, you would be going to prison for hiding the crime. And you would farking deserve it. And she'd be left in foster care wracked with unimaginable guilt for it.


How can anybody think of doing it any other way?  I mean jesus, a kid got raped.  Once that happens, there are no happy endings, do right by the victim first, last and always.
 
2014-02-05 06:22:13 PM

namegoeshere: namegoeshere: vicioushobbit: Profedius: I find I want more information into how this act was discovered. I think rape in the idea that he held her down tore her underwear off is less likely than a case of sexual experimentation that resulted in him having actual sex with his sister. I am guessing at some point she had wanted the play to end most likely at the point of penetration and he did not stop. I guess sometime after the event she told a parent. I am still wondering how as a parent you go from finding out your son had sex with your daughter to calling the police to have him arrested. For the wellbeing of the family wouldn't the parents try to correct the issue quietly and quickly before bringing in law enforcement? This event has been dragged out for I am guessing months with all of society expressing how horrible this was and how she was victimized by her own brother. She is going to be damaged now for life when it could have been over and recovered from more quickly. I would have handled the situation differently which I think would have had less impact on the development of both children.

Oh my god. Parents correct the issue? Not report rape to the police ?

What are you, a catholic priest or a penn state alum?

I hope you realize that "letting the parents handle it" is how young rapists continue raping longer before they are caught. Though the amount of effort you went into qualifying how this situation might be okie dokie makes me think you won't get it.

Christ on sale, and I thought some of the other comments here were retarded...

I agree and add, this would also deny the victim the physical and mental health care she needs after being raped, as all doctors and counselors are mandated reporters. They would also have to coach her to shut the hell up and never, ever speak about it because any adult in her school, any coach, any girl scout leader, ect. is also a mandated reporter. Can you comprehend the message this would send to that little girl? Can you understand t ...

And to add (because the op turned my stomach so) if you handled the situation any differently than by reporting it immediately, not only would you damage the fark out of the victim child and deny them any sort of healthcare, not only would you teach that child that she was completely unimportant and deserved to be the victim of abuse and did NOT deserve any sort of care or justice for having been the victim of abuse, not only would you teach her that nothing bad that happens to her matters, not only would you take her voice away for life and make her unable to speak up about any sort of abuse in the future, not only would you set her up for any and all future victimization, not only would you damage her in this way, but when she did break and tell someone, you would be going to prison for hiding the crime. And you would farking deserve it. And she'd be left in foster care wracked with unimaginable guilt for it.


Thank you both for articulating what frustration and anger made me incapable of expressing.

I sit too close to the subject to watch people say they could do it better by doing exactly what has been perpetuating abuse cycles for centuries.

This is not a kid who messed up; this boy knowingly raped his sister. This was not an accident. Make him farking accountable.
 
2014-02-05 06:24:18 PM

cookiefleck: ZeroCorpse: `Playing Devil's Advocate here...

Was what happened actual rape, as in, penetration of some sort? Or was it two young kids playing doctor? TFA is vague on this point.

Kids DO touch each other. They do experiment with their body parts with each other. There's a difference between normal childhood sexual experimentation, and rape.

Now, granted, this 13-year-old should be past the point of playing doctor, but some boys do mature more slowly and it's possible he was still mentally at that "your body is different from my body" mode.

I just think we're too quick to call anything vaguely sexual "rape" these days. If it was just "you touch mine and I'll touch yours" that's a lot different than "lay down and let me put this in you."

Again; Just asking a question. Not defending the little freak.

An 8 yr old cannot consent, so yes it's rape.


Where do you draw the line though? If two kids play doctor, is it rape? Who is the rapist? The older kid? The male?

I'm not saying what happened here wasn't rape, but that word gets applied to a lot of things these days that I don't consider rape.
 
2014-02-05 06:29:17 PM

James10952001: cookiefleck: ZeroCorpse: `Playing Devil's Advocate here...

Was what happened actual rape, as in, penetration of some sort? Or was it two young kids playing doctor? TFA is vague on this point.

Kids DO touch each other. They do experiment with their body parts with each other. There's a difference between normal childhood sexual experimentation, and rape.

Now, granted, this 13-year-old should be past the point of playing doctor, but some boys do mature more slowly and it's possible he was still mentally at that "your body is different from my body" mode.

I just think we're too quick to call anything vaguely sexual "rape" these days. If it was just "you touch mine and I'll touch yours" that's a lot different than "lay down and let me put this in you."

Again; Just asking a question. Not defending the little freak.

An 8 yr old cannot consent, so yes it's rape.

Where do you draw the line though? If two kids play doctor, is it rape? Who is the rapist? The older kid? The male?

I'm not saying what happened here wasn't rape, but that word gets applied to a lot of things these days that I don't consider rape.


That's nice. Im talking about *this* case. An 8 yr old cannot agree/consent to any sexual activity.The 13 yr old admitted to it. There is no question in this case.
 
Ant
2014-02-05 06:30:11 PM

vwarb: I never understand how people can't seem to grasp that millions of kids watch porn and grow up to be pretty much normal.


This. Thank you to whichever Penthouse collector suddenly found Jesus and dumped his entire collection of magazines behind our apartment building.
 
2014-02-05 06:31:00 PM
Kinect is watching you fap.
 
2014-02-05 06:31:12 PM

James10952001: cookiefleck: ZeroCorpse: `Playing Devil's Advocate here...

Was what happened actual rape, as in, penetration of some sort? Or was it two young kids playing doctor? TFA is vague on this point.

Kids DO touch each other. They do experiment with their body parts with each other. There's a difference between normal childhood sexual experimentation, and rape.

Now, granted, this 13-year-old should be past the point of playing doctor, but some boys do mature more slowly and it's possible he was still mentally at that "your body is different from my body" mode.

I just think we're too quick to call anything vaguely sexual "rape" these days. If it was just "you touch mine and I'll touch yours" that's a lot different than "lay down and let me put this in you."

Again; Just asking a question. Not defending the little freak.

An 8 yr old cannot consent, so yes it's rape.

Where do you draw the line though? If two kids play doctor, is it rape? Who is the rapist? The older kid? The male?

I'm not saying what happened here wasn't rape, but that word gets applied to a lot of things these days that I don't consider rape.


Penetration, oral sex.

Other touching is molestation, if non-exploratory. If deemed truly innocent, you express to the child personal boundaries, places that are no-touch, and so forth.

Playing dr is very different than oral sex or digital penetration, don't you think?

What do you nt consider rape, where the word has been used?
 
2014-02-05 06:32:04 PM
The funny thing is, the various social workers & law-enforcement personnel who are caring for the little girl/victim are almost certainly doing vastly more damage than the brother/rapist actually did. It's probably a non-stop train of hand-wringing adults, telling her about how damaged she now is, etc.
 
2014-02-05 06:32:34 PM

Mouser: JesusJuice: The little freak should be euthanized.  Nothing good can come of letting it grow into an adult.

Why not go the Kim Jong Un route and execute the entire family?  Odds are, you'll nab at least one extra pedo that way.


'Why not', indeed.
 
2014-02-05 06:33:34 PM

AbortionsForAll: The funny thing is, the various social workers & law-enforcement personnel who are caring for the little girl/victim are almost certainly doing vastly more damage than the brother/rapist actually did. It's probably a non-stop train of hand-wringing adults, telling her about how damaged she now is, etc.


You have experience on this topic? Data? Citations?

No?

Then fark you and the horse you rode in on.
 
2014-02-05 06:34:28 PM

vicioushobbit: AbortionsForAll: The funny thing is, the various social workers & law-enforcement personnel who are caring for the little girl/victim are almost certainly doing vastly more damage than the brother/rapist actually did. It's probably a non-stop train of hand-wringing adults, telling her about how damaged she now is, etc.

You have experience on this topic? Data? Citations?

No?

Then fark you and the horse you rode in on.


What makes you so sure I don't have direct experience on the matter..?

Seems to me like you should take your assumptions, and use them to fark yourself.
 
2014-02-05 06:35:13 PM

AbortionsForAll: vicioushobbit: AbortionsForAll: The funny thing is, the various social workers & law-enforcement personnel who are caring for the little girl/victim are almost certainly doing vastly more damage than the brother/rapist actually did. It's probably a non-stop train of hand-wringing adults, telling her about how damaged she now is, etc.

You have experience on this topic? Data? Citations?

No?

Then fark you and the horse you rode in on.

What makes you so sure I don't have direct experience on the matter..?

Seems to me like you should take your assumptions, and use them to fark yourself.


Then lay out your argument as to why she is more damaged by the professional help.
 
2014-02-05 06:35:58 PM
So...they had an Xbox 360 yet had no computer, no smart phone, no television that showed porn.

No, it was only the porn specifically watched through the Xbox browser.

I think I saw that horror movie.
 
2014-02-05 06:36:26 PM

James10952001: cookiefleck: ZeroCorpse: `Playing Devil's Advocate here...

Was what happened actual rape, as in, penetration of some sort? Or was it two young kids playing doctor? TFA is vague on this point.

Kids DO touch each other. They do experiment with their body parts with each other. There's a difference between normal childhood sexual experimentation, and rape.

Now, granted, this 13-year-old should be past the point of playing doctor, but some boys do mature more slowly and it's possible he was still mentally at that "your body is different from my body" mode.

I just think we're too quick to call anything vaguely sexual "rape" these days. If it was just "you touch mine and I'll touch yours" that's a lot different than "lay down and let me put this in you."

Again; Just asking a question. Not defending the little freak.

An 8 yr old cannot consent, so yes it's rape.

Where do you draw the line though? If two kids play doctor, is it rape? Who is the rapist? The older kid? The male?

I'm not saying what happened here wasn't rape, but that word gets applied to a lot of things these days that I don't consider rape.


Are you seriously asking what's the difference between pre-pubescent children and pubescent teenagers?
 
2014-02-05 06:40:02 PM

AbortionsForAll: The funny thing is, the various social workers & law-enforcement personnel who are caring for the little girl/victim are almost certainly doing vastly more damage than the brother/rapist actually did. It's probably a non-stop train of hand-wringing adults, telling her about how damaged she now is, etc.


As long as we can find some way to make what the actual rapist did, less bad, it's all good right?
 
2014-02-05 06:41:07 PM
The hopeless imp:
Are you seriously asking what's the difference between pre-pubescent children and pubescent teenagers?

I can field this one. No. He is not asking that. Not sure how you can read that from what he posted. I do see a few outraged posts who seem to have missed this from his post:

"An 8 yr old cannot consent, so yes it's rape."

I believe his overall question is valid. Asking it does not have to imply that what happened was ok, nor that the act wasn't criminal. There are, however, degrees.
 
2014-02-05 06:41:24 PM

vicioushobbit: AbortionsForAll: vicioushobbit: AbortionsForAll: The funny thing is, the various social workers & law-enforcement personnel who are caring for the little girl/victim are almost certainly doing vastly more damage than the brother/rapist actually did. It's probably a non-stop train of hand-wringing adults, telling her about how damaged she now is, etc.

You have experience on this topic? Data? Citations?

No?

Then fark you and the horse you rode in on.

What makes you so sure I don't have direct experience on the matter..?

Seems to me like you should take your assumptions, and use them to fark yourself.

Then lay out your argument as to why she is more damaged by the professional help.


No. No, I don't think I will. Just because I said something you don't like on an internet forum, it doesn't lay a burden on me demanding that I cite references & statistics. It might be different if references & statistics were what was being discussed or if I was perhaps writing for a professional publication but being as this is the comments section of fark.com, I don't really need to go through such trouble.

That said, I already did lay out my argument. Said argument being that the numerous adults which the victim is now interacting with are probably doing more long-term damage than the actual rapist, due to the fact that they are no-doubt relentlessly drilling into her the idea that she is damaged and that she should be extremely upset, etc. It's not a complicated concept requiring lengthy explanation.

As for any direct experience I might or might not have on the matter... Again, this is fark.com. I am under no obligation (legal or otherwise) to divulge my personal life and experiences. Of course, you're free to ask but I'm also free to decline.
 
2014-02-05 06:42:30 PM

cookiefleck: AbortionsForAll: The funny thing is, the various social workers & law-enforcement personnel who are caring for the little girl/victim are almost certainly doing vastly more damage than the brother/rapist actually did. It's probably a non-stop train of hand-wringing adults, telling her about how damaged she now is, etc.

As long as we can find some way to make what the actual rapist did, less bad, it's all good right?


What are you talking about? What did I say to suggest that the rapist actions should be made "less bad"..?
 
2014-02-05 06:47:35 PM

AbortionsForAll: cookiefleck: AbortionsForAll: The funny thing is, the various social workers & law-enforcement personnel who are caring for the little girl/victim are almost certainly doing vastly more damage than the brother/rapist actually did. It's probably a non-stop train of hand-wringing adults, telling her about how damaged she now is, etc.

As long as we can find some way to make what the actual rapist did, less bad, it's all good right?

What are you talking about? What did I say to suggest that the rapist actions should be made "less bad"..?


Because you are saying that the law enforcement/therapists will somehow damage her more than the rape itself did. ld like to know where and how you came up with that. Please, I'd love to know how your brain works.
 
2014-02-05 06:49:30 PM

WhoGAS: So...they had an Xbox 360 yet had no computer, no smart phone, no television that showed porn.

No, it was only the porn specifically watched through the Xbox browser.

I think I saw that horror movie.


It could be possible the other devices were password protected, but the xbox 360 was forgotten.  Since the kid found one path to the porn, he didn't bother hacking the other devices.
 
2014-02-05 06:50:08 PM

AbortionsForAll: vicioushobbit: AbortionsForAll: vicioushobbit: AbortionsForAll: The funny thing is, the various social workers & law-enforcement personnel who are caring for the little girl/victim are almost certainly doing vastly more damage than the brother/rapist actually did. It's probably a non-stop train of hand-wringing adults, telling her about how damaged she now is, etc.

You have experience on this topic? Data? Citations?

No?

Then fark you and the horse you rode in on.

What makes you so sure I don't have direct experience on the matter..?

Seems to me like you should take your assumptions, and use them to fark yourself.

Then lay out your argument as to why she is more damaged by the professional help.

No. No, I don't think I will. Just because I said something you don't like on an internet forum, it doesn't lay a burden on me demanding that I cite references & statistics. It might be different if references & statistics were what was being discussed or if I was perhaps writing for a professional publication but being as this is the comments section of fark.com, I don't really need to go through such trouble.

That said, I already did lay out my argument. Said argument being that the numerous adults which the victim is now interacting with are probably doing more long-term damage than the actual rapist, due to the fact that they are no-doubt relentlessly drilling into her the idea that she is damaged and that she should be extremely upset, etc. It's not a complicated concept requiring lengthy explanation.

As for any direct experience I might or might not have on the matter... Again, this is fark.com. I am under no obligation (legal or otherwise) to divulge my personal life and experiences. Of course, you're free to ask but I'm also free to decline.


Come off like a troll, refuse to cite or lay out argument, upset that you were perceived as a troll.


Yeah, I'm totes going to believe your argument. You are right, this is fark. And if it smells like a troll, acts like a troll, it will be received as a troll.

So, yeah.
 
2014-02-05 06:51:44 PM
cookiefleck:

The adults around her hypothetically inflicting more damage than the juvenile rapist in no way lessens the gravity of the rape itself. I don't see how this statement was at all made on my part. As for the concept in general, it's not a complex one, and I don't feel like it requires additional elaboration. I think that you merely don't like what I'm saying, and so you're lashing out by trying to goad me into a debate/argument.
 
2014-02-05 06:53:10 PM
vicioushobbit:

1. I wasn't trolling.

2. I am not upset that you're accusing me of trolling.

3. I don't care if you believe me or not.

So yeah.
 
2014-02-05 06:54:53 PM

AbortionsForAll: vicioushobbit:

1. I wasn't trolling.

2. I am not upset that you're accusing me of trolling.

3. I don't care if you believe me or not.

So yeah.


Okay, so you're just ignorant then. Good to know.
 
2014-02-05 06:55:47 PM

cookiefleck: AbortionsForAll: vicioushobbit:

1. I wasn't trolling.

2. I am not upset that you're accusing me of trolling.

3. I don't care if you believe me or not.

So yeah.

Okay, so you're just ignorant then. Good to know.


I can do that too. Ready..?

   You're ignorant! Good to know.
 
2014-02-05 06:57:36 PM

AbortionsForAll: vicioushobbit: AbortionsForAll: vicioushobbit: AbortionsForAll: The funny thing is, the various social workers & law-enforcement personnel who are caring for the little girl/victim are almost certainly doing vastly more damage than the brother/rapist actually did. It's probably a non-stop train of hand-wringing adults, telling her about how damaged she now is, etc.

You have experience on this topic? Data? Citations?

No?

Then fark you and the horse you rode in on.

What makes you so sure I don't have direct experience on the matter..?

Seems to me like you should take your assumptions, and use them to fark yourself.

Then lay out your argument as to why she is more damaged by the professional help.


No. No, I don't think I will. Just because I said something you don't like on an internet forum, it doesn't lay a burden on me demanding that I cite references & statistics. It might be different if references & statistics were what was being discussed or if I was perhaps writing for a professional publication but being as this is the comments section of fark.com, I don't really need to go through such trouble.

That said, I already did lay out my argument. Said argument being that the numerous adults which the victim is now interacting with are probably doing more long-term damage than the actual rapist, due to the fact that they are no-doubt relentlessly drilling into her the idea that she is damaged and that she should be extremely upset, etc. It's not a complicated concept requiring lengthy explanation.

As for any direct experience I might or might not have on the matter... Again, this is fark.com. I am under no obligation (legal or otherwise) to divulge my personal life and experiences. Of course, you're free to ask but I'm also free to decline.


You did not lay out an argument.  You laid out a conclusion.
 
2014-02-05 06:58:14 PM
Blackburn MP Jack Straw said it was the responsibility of internet service providers to make sure children could not access sexually-explicit content.


typical sleasebag politician with a straw man argument, blaming "the internet".  99.999% of kids look at porn without becoming animals.

He should go back to counting those 4000 holes.
 
2014-02-05 06:59:21 PM

James10952001: I watched porn with my friends whenever we could get it when I was that age. Never had any desire to tape anyone, especially a sibling, ewww.

Anyone else remember when you could use a matchbook to wedge the knob on those analog cable boxes between channels and get playboy to come in?


I just trained my eyes to see through the rainbow colored distortion lines. Like the matrix. Exactly like the matrix.

/ still can't see the farking sailboat in those mall posters.
 
2014-02-05 07:00:42 PM

AbortionsForAll: cookiefleck: AbortionsForAll: vicioushobbit:

1. I wasn't trolling.

2. I am not upset that you're accusing me of trolling.

3. I don't care if you believe me or not.

So yeah.

Okay, so you're just ignorant then. Good to know.

I can do that too. Ready..?

   You're ignorant! Good to know.


I'm not the one spouting off hypothetical BS and stating it as fact. You still haven't said how you came up with your assertion that law enforcement and mental health professionals will somehow cause more damage to this girl than getting raped by her brother.
 
2014-02-05 07:01:57 PM
I read a very well-written and and shocking book by Alison Arngrim, the child actor who's mom voiced Casper the Ghost. Her perfect child-star brother Stefan Arngrim abused her regularly from the time she was 8 or so until she got older & found out that she could threaten him to stop and put an end to it. The parents never abused them. It was a matter of self-entitlement and being a sociopath on his part. What she did with her life regarding it is absolutely stunning.  Not everything can be blamed on parental abuse. Some people are just born a-hats. Give it a read "Confessions of a Prairie biatch", it's an awesome autobiography, and also has a lot of fun memories about working on the Little House series.
 
2014-02-05 07:04:08 PM
I would be more worried around someone who did not look at porn while growing up...
 
2014-02-05 07:06:48 PM
"called on Internet service providers to "recognise that they have greater responsibilities for controlling access to porn."

Of course it's the ISP's fault, the parents are blameless in all this.
 
2014-02-05 07:08:30 PM

ElPollotonto: I would be more worried around someone who did not look at porn while growing up...


I'm more worried about the 8 year old, little sister.
 
2014-02-05 07:08:53 PM

Ant: vwarb: I never understand how people can't seem to grasp that millions of kids watch porn and grow up to be pretty much normal.

This. Thank you to whichever Penthouse collector suddenly found Jesus and dumped his entire collection of magazines behind our apartment building.


More likely his wife dumped his entire collection. Kids these days will never know the joy of finding a stash of dirty magazines.
 
2014-02-05 07:12:54 PM

The hopeless imp: James10952001: cookiefleck: ZeroCorpse: `Playing Devil's Advocate here...

Was what happened actual rape, as in, penetration of some sort? Or was it two young kids playing doctor? TFA is vague on this point.

Kids DO touch each other. They do experiment with their body parts with each other. There's a difference between normal childhood sexual experimentation, and rape.

Now, granted, this 13-year-old should be past the point of playing doctor, but some boys do mature more slowly and it's possible he was still mentally at that "your body is different from my body" mode.

I just think we're too quick to call anything vaguely sexual "rape" these days. If it was just "you touch mine and I'll touch yours" that's a lot different than "lay down and let me put this in you."

Again; Just asking a question. Not defending the little freak.

An 8 yr old cannot consent, so yes it's rape.

Where do you draw the line though? If two kids play doctor, is it rape? Who is the rapist? The older kid? The male?

I'm not saying what happened here wasn't rape, but that word gets applied to a lot of things these days that I don't consider rape.

Are you seriously asking what's the difference between pre-pubescent children and pubescent teenagers?


You don't instantly transform from one to the other at a specific point in time. We're not talking about a 30 yo with a 5 yo. There is considerable gray area.
 
2014-02-05 07:13:57 PM
There was a Frontline documentary called The Lost Children of Rockdale County. That Georgia county had the highest VD rate in the country.

One of the reasons why these kids had so much VD was after school, when no parents were home, they would watch porn on cable TV and do whatever they saw being done on the screen.

So, the main reason is lack of parent supervision. The secondary reason is access. Pretty much the story with anything that screws up a family.

/and there are humans that come out evil and stay evil all their lives. they may get better at hiding their thoughts and actions but that doesn't mean they aren't evil
/Cary Stayner--the handyman who killed 4 women at a motel--said he had thoughts of brutally murdering women since he was 7 years old. He was 38 when he said this.
 
2014-02-05 07:14:50 PM

vicioushobbit: James10952001: cookiefleck: ZeroCorpse: `Playing Devil's Advocate here...

Was what happened actual rape, as in, penetration of some sort? Or was it two young kids playing doctor? TFA is vague on this point.

Kids DO touch each other. They do experiment with their body parts with each other. There's a difference between normal childhood sexual experimentation, and rape.

Now, granted, this 13-year-old should be past the point of playing doctor, but some boys do mature more slowly and it's possible he was still mentally at that "your body is different from my body" mode.

I just think we're too quick to call anything vaguely sexual "rape" these days. If it was just "you touch mine and I'll touch yours" that's a lot different than "lay down and let me put this in you."

Again; Just asking a question. Not defending the little freak.

An 8 yr old cannot consent, so yes it's rape.

Where do you draw the line though? If two kids play doctor, is it rape? Who is the rapist? The older kid? The male?

I'm not saying what happened here wasn't rape, but that word gets applied to a lot of things these days that I don't consider rape.

Penetration, oral sex.

Other touching is molestation, if non-exploratory. If deemed truly innocent, you express to the child personal boundaries, places that are no-touch, and so forth.

Playing dr is very different than oral sex or digital penetration, don't you think?

What do you nt consider rape, where the word has been used?


And there's where the article leaves us hanging. It doesn't say WHAT happened. It just uses the blanket term "rape" without qualifying it, and it's not unusual for news media and blogs to over-simplify and sensationalize.

So again, I ask: Was what he did just groping, or even light oral activity, or was it more? That would seem to be the distinction between rape and childish experimentation.

We also don't know if this kid is a typical 13-year-old, or if he's developmentally disabled. The article is just too vague and general.

I guess either way, he victimized his sister (he did indicate he chose her specifically because she wasn't known for remembering stuff) and he's a little creep, but I"m just a bit pedantic about the loose and easy use of words like "rape" when the article doesn't expand on it and support the claim.
 
2014-02-05 07:15:09 PM

Belias: The hopeless imp:
Are you seriously asking what's the difference between pre-pubescent children and pubescent teenagers?

I can field this one. No. He is not asking that. Not sure how you can read that from what he posted. I do see a few outraged posts who seem to have missed this from his post:

"An 8 yr old cannot consent, so yes it's rape."

I believe his overall question is valid. Asking it does not have to imply that what happened was ok, nor that the act wasn't criminal. There are, however, degrees.


Yes, this.

I was replying to that specific blanket statement, not necessarily in the context of the article. We don't really have any details about what actually happened.
 
2014-02-05 07:16:01 PM

cookiefleck: I'm not the one spouting off hypothetical BS and stating it as fact. You still haven't said how you came up with your assertion that law enforcement and mental health professionals will somehow cause more damage to this girl than getting raped by her brother.


well if it was a legitimate rape her body would have ways of shutting that down
 
2014-02-05 07:17:33 PM

Ant: vwarb: I never understand how people can't seem to grasp that millions of kids watch porn and grow up to be pretty much normal.

This. Thank you to whichever Penthouse collector suddenly found Jesus and dumped his entire collection of magazines behind our apartment building.


That would be somebody's wife. Or mom.
 
m00
2014-02-05 07:19:14 PM

chapman: Once that happens, there are no happy endings,


Well, presumably there's one.

/one ticket please
 
2014-02-05 07:20:16 PM

ZeroCorpse: vicioushobbit: James10952001: cookiefleck: ZeroCorpse: `Playing Devil's Advocate here...

Was what happened actual rape, as in, penetration of some sort? Or was it two young kids playing doctor? TFA is vague on this point.

Kids DO touch each other. They do experiment with their body parts with each other. There's a difference between normal childhood sexual experimentation, and rape.

Now, granted, this 13-year-old should be past the point of playing doctor, but some boys do mature more slowly and it's possible he was still mentally at that "your body is different from my body" mode.

I just think we're too quick to call anything vaguely sexual "rape" these days. If it was just "you touch mine and I'll touch yours" that's a lot different than "lay down and let me put this in you."

Again; Just asking a question. Not defending the little freak.

An 8 yr old cannot consent, so yes it's rape.

Where do you draw the line though? If two kids play doctor, is it rape? Who is the rapist? The older kid? The male?

I'm not saying what happened here wasn't rape, but that word gets applied to a lot of things these days that I don't consider rape.

Penetration, oral sex.

Other touching is molestation, if non-exploratory. If deemed truly innocent, you express to the child personal boundaries, places that are no-touch, and so forth.

Playing dr is very different than oral sex or digital penetration, don't you think?

What do you nt consider rape, where the word has been used?

And there's where the article leaves us hanging. It doesn't say WHAT happened. It just uses the blanket term "rape" without qualifying it, and it's not unusual for news media and blogs to over-simplify and sensationalize.

So again, I ask: Was what he did just groping, or even light oral activity, or was it more? That would seem to be the distinction between rape and childish experimentation.

We also don't know if this kid is a typical 13-year-old, or if he's developmentally disabled. The article is just too vague and general.

I guess either way, he victimized his sister (he did indicate he chose her specifically because she wasn't known for remembering stuff) and he's a little creep, but I"m just a bit pedantic about the loose and easy use of words like "rape" when the article doesn't expand on it and support the claim.


If police are calling it "rape" you can bet done sort of penetration was involved, at minimum, oral penetration.

"Even light oral activity" is still rape, as it is forced oral sex.

Forced, because at 8, she cannot consent. Also, not playing doctor, because the perp knew what he was doing. If he chose her bc of his perceived notion she wouldn't remember, then he knew what he was doing was wrong, he was covering his tracks (poorly). Retarded or not, this boy does seen to know right from wrong on this issue.

Have you ever seen the word rape used to express just groping? I've always seen that worded as "molestation" vs rape. If not...I mean, why be pedantic on that ? (Serious question)
 
2014-02-05 07:23:04 PM

cookiefleck: AbortionsForAll: cookiefleck: AbortionsForAll: The funny thing is, the various social workers & law-enforcement personnel who are caring for the little girl/victim are almost certainly doing vastly more damage than the brother/rapist actually did. It's probably a non-stop train of hand-wringing adults, telling her about how damaged she now is, etc.

As long as we can find some way to make what the actual rapist did, less bad, it's all good right?

What are you talking about? What did I say to suggest that the rapist actions should be made "less bad"..?

Because you are saying that the law enforcement/therapists will somehow damage her more than the rape itself did. ld like to know where and how you came up with that. Please, I'd love to know how your brain works.


I don't know about in the case of rape, but there have been a number of highly publicized cases where one kid took a naughty selfie and sent it to another kid, leading to arrests and child porn charges. It creates a unique situation of someone being both the perpetrator and the victim. I don't recall how things ended, but that is a related situation where things got way out of hand an a stern talking to by the parents would have IMO been more productive than calling the cops.

In a case of alleged rape, I would want to make sure it was genuinely rape prior to reporting it and possibly setting of a gigantic shiatstorm. It's important to determine just what happened first. If it was a couple of young kids touching each other that's not necessarily rape.
 
2014-02-05 07:24:05 PM

Profedius: I find I want more information into how this act was discovered. I think rape in the idea that he held her down tore her underwear off is less likely than a case of sexual experimentation that resulted in him having actual sex with his sister. I am guessing at some point she had wanted the play to end most likely at the point of penetration and he did not stop. I guess sometime after the event she told a parent. I am still wondering how as a parent you go from finding out your son had sex with your daughter to calling the police to have him arrested. For the wellbeing of the family wouldn't the parents try to correct the issue quietly and quickly before bringing in law enforcement? This event has been dragged out for I am guessing months with all of society expressing how horrible this was and how she was victimized by her own brother. She is going to be damaged now for life when it could have been over and recovered from more quickly. I would have handled the situation differently which I think would have had less impact on the development of both children.


this is how it was handled in my family when my sixteen year old cousin forced me to give him oral sex when I was six.  He didn't come over anymore, my parents talked to me about how he was bad and it was ok for me to be upset about it.  At the time though, I really didn't think much of it except that it was gross.  I already had peeked at my brother's skin mags that were hidden in the bathroom (he's a lot older than me) and also at some point remember peeking thru the bathroom door when my dad was peeing because i was curious about how men peed.

That being said, there's a lot of people that would say that i'm "broken"  as a result of the abuse incidents, although I tend to disagree.  Yes, i'm promiscuous, but I enjoy myself and don't feel ashamed about it.  Yes, i'm kinky, but not crazily so.  I've always figured that one could go one of two ways after childhood sexual abuse, one could be frigid or one could be slutty... I prefer slutty, it's much more fun.
 
2014-02-05 07:24:54 PM

lack of warmth: It could be possible the other devices were password protected, but the xbox 360 was forgotten.  Since the kid found one path to the porn, he didn't bother hacking the other devices.


That did cross my mind but I discounted it as possible, but unlikely.  Let's assume it's the truth, though, (bypassing another argument that the XBox is the only device they own and they don't pay the TV tax for aired shows).

Let's assume, too, that they do own all the devices previously mentioned.  They have the knowledge to lock their phone, their TV and their computer thinking of their children's "safety".  Yet, upon purchasing an internet-connected Xbox, this semi-tech savvy family neglected to set up their own children's account during the creation process.

Why would that be?  Perhaps the Xbox is a very recent purchase, set up by dad wanting to play the latest game while mom slept...we dads do tend to forget the little things when gaming's involved.

Maybe they did it on purpose, going so far as to setting the porn site as his default home page on his own account.  Perhaps his parents were secretly training him as a rape sleeper, triggered by a specific sexual act and the father was just testing it out on the girl.  Perhaps they only raised those kids specifically for this one task in life.

Maybe I'm going to stop thinking so much...
 
m00
2014-02-05 07:24:56 PM

James10952001: In a case of alleged rape, I would want to make sure it was genuinely rape prior to reporting it and possibly setting of a gigantic shiatstorm. It's important to determine just what happened first. If it was a couple of young kids touching each other that's not necessarily rape.


blogs.telegraph.co.uk
 
2014-02-05 07:27:51 PM

factoryconnection: miss diminutive: Well-adjusted, empathetic and reasonable 13 year olds don't rape their siblings just because they viewed some pornography. At 13 they know enough to understand how these actions are wrong and can impact another person.

I suspect there's more to the story here.

My wife used to work with underaged sex offenders.  Almost every single one was a victim of sexual abuse themselves, exposed to pornography and sex from a young age, often by relatives or close family friends.  Stories that were extremely difficult to listen to.

And then there was, every once in a while, the genuine sociopath with good parents that just had absolutely no empathy and no compunction in getting whatever he wanted.

So there is most likely a pedophile at the end of this story, too.



A long time ago when I was a teen I used to work in a store that - among many other things - sold these realistic looking sandstone dog statues. Most of them were small, meant to go on a knicknack shelf, but we had a life sized one in a sitting pose that we put in the entrance of the store to lure in the kind of people who would want a sandstone dog statue for some reason.

One day a pretty average looking suburban white guy comes in to look at something else with his like 2 or 3 year old boy, and while I'm selling the dad on the doodad he wanted to take a look at I notice that his little boy is behind him trying to give a handjob to the dog statue. Not just playing around with the statue, not just touching it.... seriously and undeniably trying to specifically give the statue of the dog a handjob.

The clear implication made me sick to my stomach on the spot, but I was dumb teenager and didn't really know what to do... The guy left and to this day it reminds me that abuse is probably a lot more common then we would all like to think and that all different kinds of farked up adults almost certainly got that way by having it taught to them when they were too young to know any better.
 
2014-02-05 07:29:41 PM

sprawl15: cookiefleck: I'm not the one spouting off hypothetical BS and stating it as fact. You still haven't said how you came up with your assertion that law enforcement and mental health professionals will somehow cause more damage to this girl than getting raped by her brother.

well if it was a legitimate rape her body would have ways of shutting that down


You sir, are bad.

/new keyboard, aisle seat ticket, etc
 
2014-02-05 07:29:59 PM

dopekitty74: Profedius: I find I want more information into how this act was discovered. I think rape in the idea that he held her down tore her underwear off is less likely than a case of sexual experimentation that resulted in him having actual sex with his sister. I am guessing at some point she had wanted the play to end most likely at the point of penetration and he did not stop. I guess sometime after the event she told a parent. I am still wondering how as a parent you go from finding out your son had sex with your daughter to calling the police to have him arrested. For the wellbeing of the family wouldn't the parents try to correct the issue quietly and quickly before bringing in law enforcement? This event has been dragged out for I am guessing months with all of society expressing how horrible this was and how she was victimized by her own brother. She is going to be damaged now for life when it could have been over and recovered from more quickly. I would have handled the situation differently which I think would have had less impact on the development of both children.

this is how it was handled in my family when my sixteen year old cousin forced me to give him oral sex when I was six.  He didn't come over anymore, my parents talked to me about how he was bad and it was ok for me to be upset about it.  At the time though, I really didn't think much of it except that it was gross.  I already had peeked at my brother's skin mags that were hidden in the bathroom (he's a lot older than me) and also at some point remember peeking thru the bathroom door when my dad was peeing because i was curious about how men peed.

That being said, there's a lot of people that would say that i'm "broken"  as a result of the abuse incidents, although I tend to disagree.  Yes, i'm promiscuous, but I enjoy myself and don't feel ashamed about it.  Yes, i'm kinky, but not crazily so.  I've always figured that one could go one of two ways after childhood sexual abuse, one could be frigid or one could be slutty... I prefer slutty, it's much more fun.


Did he ever do it to anybody else, after that?

Did your parents warn his parents, and those other kids he might be around?

Or did they keep it quiet, so not to cause ripples?

I am glad you are confident in yourself, and that you don't see yourself as broken. Victims aren't the broken ones; those who victimize are the farked up individuals.
 
2014-02-05 07:31:51 PM

mongbiohazard: factoryconnection: miss diminutive: Well-adjusted, empathetic and reasonable 13 year olds don't rape their siblings just because they viewed some pornography. At 13 they know enough to understand how these actions are wrong and can impact another person.

I suspect there's more to the story here.

My wife used to work with underaged sex offenders.  Almost every single one was a victim of sexual abuse themselves, exposed to pornography and sex from a young age, often by relatives or close family friends.  Stories that were extremely difficult to listen to.

And then there was, every once in a while, the genuine sociopath with good parents that just had absolutely no empathy and no compunction in getting whatever he wanted.

So there is most likely a pedophile at the end of this story, too.


A long time ago when I was a teen I used to work in a store that - among many other things - sold these realistic looking sandstone dog statues. Most of them were small, meant to go on a knicknack shelf, but we had a life sized one in a sitting pose that we put in the entrance of the store to lure in the kind of people who would want a sandstone dog statue for some reason.

One day a pretty average looking suburban white guy comes in to look at something else with his like 2 or 3 year old boy, and while I'm selling the dad on the doodad he wanted to take a look at I notice that his little boy is behind him trying to give a handjob to the dog statue. Not just playing around with the statue, not just touching it.... seriously and undeniably trying to specifically give the statue of the dog a handjob.

The clear implication made me sick to my stomach on the spot, but I was dumb teenager and didn't really know what to do... The guy left and to this day it reminds me that abuse is probably a lot more common then we would all like to think and that all different kinds of farked up adults almost certainly got that way by having it taught to them when they were too young to know any better.


Red rocket! Red rocket!!

*too lazy to go find the Southpark screenshot.
 
2014-02-05 07:33:47 PM
Older brothers have been raping their younger sisters for millenia, I really don't think an xbox or porn had anything to do with it. Raging teen hormones, a learned lack of respect for females, and, how nice!, a victim you can easily bully and overpower are a well known formula for incestuous rape.
 
2014-02-05 07:34:00 PM

FraggleStickCar: I didn't bother to read it ; )


That's okay, we treated your whiney post with the same regard :)
 
2014-02-05 07:35:05 PM

dopekitty74: I prefer slutty, it's much more fun.


Ethically, yes.
 
2014-02-05 07:37:42 PM
So we went from idiots blaming a Xbox for a 13 year old being a sociopath to claiming nobody's to blame because it probably wasn't legitimate rape. Stay classy, folks. And Abortionforall does have legitimate experience with brother/sister incest. Obviously his parents
 
2014-02-05 07:41:45 PM
I could swear this isn't the first thread where everything would suddenly make sense (everything being said) if Abortionsforall was actually a rapist.
 
2014-02-05 07:41:51 PM

Fallout Boy: BigNumber12: James10952001: Why is there no edit feature?

So that people can never go back and conceal the derp that they trotted out on some subject or other. We hold people accountable.

Or you know, have time limit on editing.


It was a joke. I don't actually make the rules here.
 
2014-02-05 07:43:19 PM

AbortionsForAll: vicioushobbit: AbortionsForAll: vicioushobbit: AbortionsForAll: The funny thing is, the various social workers & law-enforcement personnel who are caring for the little girl/victim are almost certainly doing vastly more damage than the brother/rapist actually did. It's probably a non-stop train of hand-wringing adults, telling her about how damaged she now is, etc.

You have experience on this topic? Data? Citations?

No?

Then fark you and the horse you rode in on.

What makes you so sure I don't have direct experience on the matter..?

Seems to me like you should take your assumptions, and use them to fark yourself.

Then lay out your argument as to why she is more damaged by the professional help.

No. No, I don't think I will. Just because I said something you don't like on an internet forum, it doesn't lay a burden on me demanding that I cite references & statistics. It might be different if references & statistics were what was being discussed or if I was perhaps writing for a professional publication but being as this is the comments section of fark.com, I don't really need to go through such trouble.

That said, I already did lay out my argument. Said argument being that the numerous adults which the victim is now interacting with are probably doing more long-term damage than the actual rapist, due to the fact that they are no-doubt relentlessly drilling into her the idea that she is damaged and that she should be extremely upset, etc. It's not a complicated concept requiring lengthy explanation.

As for any direct experience I might or might not have on the matter... Again, this is fark.com. I am under no obligation (legal or otherwise) to divulge my personal life and experiences. Of course, you're free to ask but I'm also free to decline.


Are you in NAMBLA? I'm asking seriously because they are the only people I've ever seen to put forth this EXACT argument.
 
2014-02-05 07:47:29 PM
images.wikia.com
 
2014-02-05 07:50:33 PM

AbortionsForAll: The funny thing is, the various social workers & law-enforcement personnel who are caring for the little girl/victim are almost certainly doing vastly more damage than the brother/rapist actually did. It's probably a non-stop train of hand-wringing adults, telling her about how damaged she now is, etc.


THIS   I know they say you should be counselled and etc, but all I wanted to do was forget it ever happened, not talk about it more.
 
2014-02-05 07:51:04 PM

WTP 2: just castrate him. and i mean now.


And what will that do? You don't need a hard-on to sexually assault someone.
 
2014-02-05 07:53:09 PM
QueenMamaBee
LowbrowDeluxe: Was she hot? I mean if we're going to figure out who or what to blame we have to check all the angles.

She was wearing a skirt.


So focus should be on checking out the lower angles?
 
2014-02-05 07:53:54 PM

pute kisses like a man: James10952001: I watched porn with my friends whenever we could get it when I was that age. Never had any desire to tape anyone, especially a sibling, ewww.

Anyone else remember when you could use a matchbook to wedge the knob on those analog cable boxes between channels and get playboy to come in?

I just trained my eyes to see through the rainbow colored distortion lines. Like the matrix. Exactly like the matrix.

/ still can't see the farking sailboat in those mall posters.


it's a schooner!
 
2014-02-05 08:02:46 PM

vicioushobbit: Did he ever do it to anybody else, after that?


not to MY knowledge

Did your parents warn his parents, and those other kids he might be around?

His parents were told, but did not want to believe their son was capable of such a horrendous act.  I told my friend who lived next door to him so that she would stay away from him (a couple of years after my incident that was)

Or did they keep it quiet, so not to cause ripples?

I am glad you are confident in yourself, and that you don't see yourself as broken. Victims aren't the broken ones; those who victimize are the farked up individuals.


thanks :)
 
m00
2014-02-05 08:08:56 PM

dopekitty74: this is how it was handled in my family when my sixteen year old cousin forced me to give him oral sex when I was six. He didn't come over anymore, my parents talked to me about how he was bad and it was ok for me to be upset about it. At the time though, I really didn't think much of it except that it was gross. I already had peeked at my brother's skin mags that were hidden in the bathroom (he's a lot older than me) and also at some point remember peeking thru the bathroom door when my dad was peeing because i was curious about how men peed.

That being said, there's a lot of people that would say that i'm "broken" as a result of the abuse incidents, although I tend to disagree. Yes, i'm promiscuous, but I enjoy myself and don't feel ashamed about it. Yes, i'm kinky, but not crazily so. I've always figured that one could go one of two ways after childhood sexual abuse, one could be frigid or one could be slutty... I prefer slutty, it's much more fun.


I don't think you're broken (I think it's shameful to consider a human being as "broken" -- except in maybe the most extreme cases) but clearly it impacted your life and sexuality, and probably not in a positive manner.
 
2014-02-05 08:33:27 PM

dopekitty74: vicioushobbit: Did he ever do it to anybody else, after that?

not to MY knowledge

Did your parents warn his parents, and those other kids he might be around?

His parents were told, but did not want to believe their son was capable of such a horrendous act.  I told my friend who lived next door to him so that she would stay away from him (a couple of years after my incident that was)

Or did they keep it quiet, so not to cause ripples?

I am glad you are confident in yourself, and that you don't see yourself as broken. Victims aren't the broken ones; those who victimize are the farked up individuals.

thanks :)


It is unfortunate his parents refused to believe. That's unfortunately fairly normal.

When I talked to my parents about my abuse when I was an adult, my mom flat out refused to believe what happened. My father responded with "it might have been me."

That aside, it's a shame that your parents didn't press charges. There is a HIGH likelihood that he will/has reoffend/ed.
 
2014-02-05 08:36:03 PM
factoryconnection: ...  So there is most likely a pedophile at the end of this story, too.

hehe... end.
 
2014-02-05 08:37:30 PM
Something like this happened in my town in the mid 80s. Except it was an 11 year old boy and he raped his 8 year old sister about 5 different times and a handful of younger boys. The parents found out eventually but nothing was done to the boy, At least until he shot out 20 windows at an elementary school and became someone else's problem. He recently spent 10 years in jail for armed robbery.
 
2014-02-05 08:39:04 PM

vicioushobbit: dopekitty74: vicioushobbit: Did he ever do it to anybody else, after that?

not to MY knowledge

Did your parents warn his parents, and those other kids he might be around?

His parents were told, but did not want to believe their son was capable of such a horrendous act.  I told my friend who lived next door to him so that she would stay away from him (a couple of years after my incident that was)

Or did they keep it quiet, so not to cause ripples?

I am glad you are confident in yourself, and that you don't see yourself as broken. Victims aren't the broken ones; those who victimize are the farked up individuals.

thanks :)

It is unfortunate his parents refused to believe. That's unfortunately fairly normal.

When I talked to my parents about my abuse when I was an adult, my mom flat out refused to believe what happened. My father responded with "it might have been me."

That aside, it's a shame that your parents didn't press charges. There is a HIGH likelihood that he will/has reoffend/ed.


If he did, it's been quite some time since.  Karma got the f**ker.  He's in a nursing home with severe MS and the only person who visits him anymore is his mother.
 
2014-02-05 08:43:32 PM

dopekitty74: vicioushobbit: dopekitty74: vicioushobbit: Did he ever do it to anybody else, after that?

not to MY knowledge

Did your parents warn his parents, and those other kids he might be around?

His parents were told, but did not want to believe their son was capable of such a horrendous act.  I told my friend who lived next door to him so that she would stay away from him (a couple of years after my incident that was)

Or did they keep it quiet, so not to cause ripples?

I am glad you are confident in yourself, and that you don't see yourself as broken. Victims aren't the broken ones; those who victimize are the farked up individuals.

thanks :)

It is unfortunate his parents refused to believe. That's unfortunately fairly normal.

When I talked to my parents about my abuse when I was an adult, my mom flat out refused to believe what happened. My father responded with "it might have been me."

That aside, it's a shame that your parents didn't press charges. There is a HIGH likelihood that he will/has reoffend/ed.

If he did, it's been quite some time since.  Karma got the f**ker.  He's in a nursing home with severe MS and the only person who visits him anymore is his mother.


At least he can't hurt anybody else.

Thanks for the peace of mind.
 
2014-02-05 08:48:22 PM

SecretAgentWoman: I would bet there are tens of thousands of 13 year old boys that have watched porn and didn't rape anyone, let alone their sister.


Yes, but the goal is to have zero 13 year old boys raping their sisters. So sorry, no porn for you. We should ban videogame systems too, just to be sure. Especially the ones that have the thing that goes up.

Who am I kidding. Farkers will never give up their electronic penis exctensions even if it means children will be raped.

/'Merica
 
2014-02-05 08:52:18 PM

dopekitty74: AbortionsForAll: The funny thing is, the various social workers & law-enforcement personnel who are caring for the little girl/victim are almost certainly doing vastly more damage than the brother/rapist actually did. It's probably a non-stop train of hand-wringing adults, telling her about how damaged she now is, etc.

THIS   I know they say you should be counselled and etc, but all I wanted to do was forget it ever happened, not talk about it more.


Uh oh! Better be careful agreeing with me like that! Apparently that kind of thinking either makes you a pedophile or a troll.
 
2014-02-05 08:55:38 PM

The Voice of Doom: QueenMamaBee
LowbrowDeluxe: Was she hot? I mean if we're going to figure out who or what to blame we have to check all the angles.

She was wearing a skirt.

So focus should be on checking out the lower angles?


That's usually how things work. Blame everything except the person doing the raping.
 
2014-02-05 08:59:27 PM
The actual article (not Kotaku's copy/paste, thanks Drew Curtis's Gawker.com) stated that it happened in Blackburn, one of those areas with extreme amounts of immigrants.
This article is racist.
 
2014-02-05 09:09:47 PM
My father had 8mm porn tapes. Once I discovered them (age 12?) I was in hog heaven but was still a virgin until I was 17. If it wasn't for alcohol and drugs I would still be one. At age 53.
 
2014-02-05 09:11:09 PM
Eh. 13? I was watching porn at 8. I didn't ever have that "hey let's go try it out" feeling on any of my female friends. My Dad never actually explained the birds and the bees either. He knew I had watched his videos. I took my learning from that and kept it to myself. Dad dodged that "talking to" bullet.
 
2014-02-05 09:14:11 PM

Lee451: My father had 8mm porn tapes. Once I discovered them (age 12?) I was in hog heaven but was still a virgin until I was 17. If it wasn't for alcohol and drugs I would still be one. At age 53.


There are several ways your statement could be taken... Did the found porn tapes feature YOU at the age of 12 or did they show your father when HE was 12? ...Or did they feature hogs? Dead hogs..? I demand specific details on who or what was shown in the alleged "porn tapes"!
 
gja [TotalFark]
2014-02-05 09:25:13 PM

pute kisses like a man: / still can't see the farking sailboat in those mall posters.


Try crystal met, or bath salts. You won't believe the shiat you'll see on those.
 
2014-02-05 09:35:33 PM
Ban Xboxes. they cause rape
Same way guns cause murders
 
2014-02-05 09:42:19 PM

AbortionsForAll: dopekitty74: AbortionsForAll: The funny thing is, the various social workers & law-enforcement personnel who are caring for the little girl/victim are almost certainly doing vastly more damage than the brother/rapist actually did. It's probably a non-stop train of hand-wringing adults, telling her about how damaged she now is, etc.

THIS   I know they say you should be counselled and etc, but all I wanted to do was forget it ever happened, not talk about it more.

Uh oh! Better be careful agreeing with me like that! Apparently that kind of thinking either makes you a pedophile or a troll.


Not necessarily; DK clarified their personal opinion based on personal experience.  That they happened to agree with you is besides the point. 

You still haven't expressed WHY you posted the above statement, which still reads trollish.  While DK may have not wanted to talk about it anymore, that does NOT mean that the girl in TFA didn't want help, didn't want to talk about what happened, and won't benefit from therapy.

See? it's possible for me to disagree with a person's opinion as long as they clarify that that's what the fark it is.

How's that horse you rode in on doing?
 
2014-02-05 09:45:39 PM

vicioushobbit: AbortionsForAll: dopekitty74: AbortionsForAll: The funny thing is, the various social workers & law-enforcement personnel who are caring for the little girl/victim are almost certainly doing vastly more damage than the brother/rapist actually did. It's probably a non-stop train of hand-wringing adults, telling her about how damaged she now is, etc.

THIS   I know they say you should be counselled and etc, but all I wanted to do was forget it ever happened, not talk about it more.

Uh oh! Better be careful agreeing with me like that! Apparently that kind of thinking either makes you a pedophile or a troll.

Not necessarily; DK clarified their personal opinion based on personal experience.  That they happened to agree with you is besides the point. 

You still haven't expressed WHY you posted the above statement, which still reads trollish.  While DK may have not wanted to talk about it anymore, that does NOT mean that the girl in TFA didn't want help, didn't want to talk about what happened, and won't benefit from therapy.

See? it's possible for me to disagree with a person's opinion as long as they clarify that that's what the fark it is.

How's that horse you rode in on doing?


You do realize that your entire argument against me consists of you putting words into my mouth and essentially inventing an entire set of circumstances which only exist within the confines of your imagination..?
 
2014-02-05 09:57:15 PM
AbortionsForAll:
You do realize that your entire argument against me consists of you putting words into my mouth and essentially inventing an entire set of circumstances which only exist within the confines of your imagination..?

No.  I do, however, realize, that you cannot see how the below statement of yours:

...the various social workers & law-enforcement personnel who are caring for the little girl/victim are almost certainly doing vastly more damage than the brother/rapist actually did.

is trollish.  You are literally claiming that the therapy she receives and the investigation is MORE TRAUMATIC than being raped by her older brother, a kid she very likely trusted and respected, if not idolized (like many kids do their big siblings).

That breach of trust, that violation of a child's innocence, that abuse of their body...LESS damaging than somebody asking questions about it?

Yet you claim it's worth, and provide no substantiation to WHY you believe it is worse.  You flat out refuse to provide substantiation.  You, sir/ma'am, whether you see it or not, are in fact a farking troll.

And I'm done with you.  Welcome to one of the very few people on my ignore list.
 
2014-02-05 10:07:51 PM

vicioushobbit: AbortionsForAll:
You do realize that your entire argument against me consists of you putting words into my mouth and essentially inventing an entire set of circumstances which only exist within the confines of your imagination..?

No.  I do, however, realize, that you cannot see how the below statement of yours:

...the various social workers & law-enforcement personnel who are caring for the little girl/victim are almost certainly doing vastly more damage than the brother/rapist actually did.

is trollish.  You are literally claiming that the therapy she receives and the investigation is MORE TRAUMATIC than being raped by her older brother, a kid she very likely trusted and respected, if not idolized (like many kids do their big siblings).

That breach of trust, that violation of a child's innocence, that abuse of their body...LESS damaging than somebody asking questions about it?

Yet you claim it's worth, and provide no substantiation to WHY you believe it is worse.  You flat out refuse to provide substantiation.  You, sir/ma'am, whether you see it or not, are in fact a farking troll.

And I'm done with you.  Welcome to one of the very few people on my ignore list.


Thank you. Yes. Add me to your ignore list. If the end result is that you never reply to anything I say ever again, then I consider that a win.

Your are operating under the assumption that the 8 year old victim has an adult-level understanding of the incident (in reality, as a small child, she probably has very little understanding of what actually happened to her - fortunately for her). Her likely level of understanding of the situation being what it is, I would wager that the long line of weepy adults repeatedly telling the girl how she has been victimized and damaged is probably more traumatic for her (not to mention the sheerly massive level of attention said adults are now paying to her private areas).

I don't see what's so hard to understand about this concept. Hell, an actual molestation victim in this thread understood what I was saying without any difficulties at all (and agreed with me). Seems to me, you just desperately wanted to argue with someone and/or accuse someone of being a troll for your own amusement or at least to gain the room's attention.
 
2014-02-05 10:12:44 PM

vicioushobbit: AbortionsForAll:
You do realize that your entire argument against me consists of you putting words into my mouth and essentially inventing an entire set of circumstances which only exist within the confines of your imagination..?

No.  I do, however, realize, that you cannot see how the below statement of yours:

...the various social workers & law-enforcement personnel who are caring for the little girl/victim are almost certainly doing vastly more damage than the brother/rapist actually did.

is trollish.  You are literally claiming that the therapy she receives and the investigation is MORE TRAUMATIC than being raped by her older brother, a kid she very likely trusted and respected, if not idolized (like many kids do their big siblings).

That breach of trust, that violation of a child's innocence, that abuse of their body...LESS damaging than somebody asking questions about it?

Yet you claim it's worth, and provide no substantiation to WHY you believe it is worse.  You flat out refuse to provide substantiation.  You, sir/ma'am, whether you see it or not, are in fact a farking troll.

And I'm done with you.  Welcome to one of the very few people on my ignore list.


It's not just trollish. It's almost directly out of the NAMBLA playbook, and something that you'll see in many pedophilia interviews when they're rationalizing their abuse (in clinical case studies). I'm not accusing the poster of being in NAMBLA (I did ask if they were though), but it's deeply disturbing.

Chemotherapy also is very uncomfortable, painful and makes people very sick...but it is often necessary to treat cancer. The same is true in these situations. Having victims repeat their experiences over and over and over again can be unbelievably painful and awful, but it's been proven to reduce PTSD, and is tremendously beneficial to abuse survivors, as well as survivors of many traumatic experiences. The natural inclination is to avoid, we avoid painful stimulus; and this avoidance is what makes triggers and PTSD so much worse.

Unfortunately predators latch on to this painful process and disingenuously attempt to shift the harm from their evil, vile and disgusting acts...onto the professionals dealing with the aftermath. They literally claim that the child was HAPPY when they were being molested with them, and were only sad and scared once society got involved. It's sick rationalizing and a refusal of responsibility. No, they want to claim they LOVE the kiddies...they're not hurting them. Riiiight.

There's a very small percentage of people who do not respond well to this type of repetition in therapy. Just as there's a small number of people who don't respond to all sorts of medical treatments. There's alternatives for them though (cbt is highly successful), and once again the responsibility lies with the predators, not the victims and certainly not our social structures.
 
2014-02-05 10:15:47 PM
Did he come up with this story, before or after he talked to his lawyer?
 
2014-02-05 10:15:56 PM

Lady Indica: vicioushobbit: AbortionsForAll:
You do realize that your entire argument against me consists of you putting words into my mouth and essentially inventing an entire set of circumstances which only exist within the confines of your imagination..?

No.  I do, however, realize, that you cannot see how the below statement of yours:

...the various social workers & law-enforcement personnel who are caring for the little girl/victim are almost certainly doing vastly more damage than the brother/rapist actually did.

is trollish.  You are literally claiming that the therapy she receives and the investigation is MORE TRAUMATIC than being raped by her older brother, a kid she very likely trusted and respected, if not idolized (like many kids do their big siblings).

That breach of trust, that violation of a child's innocence, that abuse of their body...LESS damaging than somebody asking questions about it?

Yet you claim it's worth, and provide no substantiation to WHY you believe it is worse.  You flat out refuse to provide substantiation.  You, sir/ma'am, whether you see it or not, are in fact a farking troll.

And I'm done with you.  Welcome to one of the very few people on my ignore list.

It's not just trollish. It's almost directly out of the NAMBLA playbook, and something that you'll see in many pedophilia interviews when they're rationalizing their abuse (in clinical case studies). I'm not accusing the poster of being in NAMBLA (I did ask if they were though), but it's deeply disturbing.

Chemotherapy also is very uncomfortable, painful and makes people very sick...but it is often necessary to treat cancer. The same is true in these situations. Having victims repeat their experiences over and over and over again can be unbelievably painful and awful, but it's been proven to reduce PTSD, and is tremendously beneficial to abuse survivors, as well as survivors of many traumatic experiences. The natural inclination is to avoid, we avoid painful stimulus; and this avoidanc ...


You went ahead and attributed and entire line of thought to me, which in fact came straight from you. At no point did I rationalize the older brother's actions or down-play the incident in any way. The only places such things took place are in your own mind and your own posts.
 
2014-02-05 10:20:29 PM
How much you wanna bet vicioushobbit didn't actually put me on ignore, and is, at this moment, absolutely *dying* to continue accusing me of trolling, etc...? Careful VH! If you give into your urges and reply to me, everyone will know that you're all talk! bwaaa hahaha!
 
2014-02-05 10:39:29 PM

namegoeshere: I'm feeling a bit sick at the moment thinking of all the children treated in exactly this way. YEAY on the parents, whatever their mistakes may have been in the past, for reporting this. That was absolutely the correct, and ONLY response.


I actually disagree that this is the ONLY response. I think it's entirely possible to be supportive to the daughter without sending the son to jail in some cases. I don't know if I knew the entire details around this incident and the people involved if I would feel that this particular case would be one that I wouldn't send right to the cops, but I am willing to entertain that there are outcomes that could potentially be better for everyone, including the victim, than immediately involving the legal system.

Evidently these parents thought this was the right thing to do, so I'm not going to second guess them at all. But I do think it's possible for people acting in good faith to provide better outcomes than our "one size fits all" justice system. To be very clear - I am not advocating for ignoring the situation, quite the opposite, I am advocating for dealing with it, but acknowledging that a parents duty to their children isn't necessarily satisfied by letting essentially someone else (in this case the criminal justice system) sort it out for you.

It's likely the courts would do exactly what most families would do either way. The offender is going to be removed from the house and put into some sort of care system, both children will be put into counselling and there will be some sort of supervision on family visits. The only practical difference here is that the decisions around these terms is not in control of the family any more, but the courts.

The only potential upside of the above scenario is that maybe the government will pay for the services provided to the offender. But, assuming that you're on the hook for feeding him/clothing him and getting him mental health care, you're not really better off, in fact, you're probably worse off since there is no guarantee that you can meet the terms put forth by the government, at least financially.

Obviously I'm making an assumption here that the parents are not motivated by retribution in so much that they want to correct the situation and also that the situation can even be corrected. I'm more than willing to admit that sometimes the best thing to do absolutely IS to let the cops handle it. I just am not willing to flatly state that this is always the best solution.
 
m00
2014-02-05 10:51:04 PM

Lady Indica: having victims repeat their experiences over and over and over again can be unbelievably painful and awful, but it's been proven to reduce PTSD, and is tremendously beneficial to abuse survivors, as well as survivors of many traumatic experiences.


Wait, wait, wait. I thought the reason that judges threw the book at child porn downloaders was that it forced the victim to "relive their experiences over and over" just knowing the content was out there.
 
2014-02-05 10:57:38 PM

m00: Lady Indica: having victims repeat their experiences over and over and over again can be unbelievably painful and awful, but it's been proven to reduce PTSD, and is tremendously beneficial to abuse survivors, as well as survivors of many traumatic experiences.

Wait, wait, wait. I thought the reason that judges threw the book at child porn downloaders was that it forced the victim to "relive their experiences over and over" just knowing the content was out there.


Talking to a counselor =/= knowing that somebody is still jacking off to the shiat that traumatized you.

/the more you know...
 
2014-02-05 11:04:35 PM
One may argue it is also coming from the culture at large which has normalized the abject commodification of women to the point where an unwitting 13 year old boy believes he has free reign over their smaller defenceless sister whom he chose to commit this act on knowing full well that she could not fight back. Which is to wonder if the boy had had pent up emotions/mental issues which were eventually reignited by the viewing of pornographic material? Or have we arrived at a culture where devious behavior is now becoming normalized amongst young men...?

http://scallywagandvagabond.com/2014/02/13-year-old-boy-raped-eight- ye ar-old-sister-watching-porn-xbox/
 
2014-02-05 11:20:51 PM

miss diminutive: Well-adjusted, empathetic and reasonable 13 year olds don't rape their siblings just because they viewed some pornography. At 13 they know enough to understand how these actions are wrong and can impact another person.

I suspect there's more to the story here.


Yep.
 
m00
2014-02-05 11:38:49 PM

vicioushobbit: Talking to a counselor =/= knowing that somebody is still jacking off to the shiat that traumatized you.

/the more you know...


Look I don't disagree with the conclusion -- that clearly talking to counselors does less harm than the original incident. But you can't use a statement that makes no sense because it has an obvious counter-example (within the context of the very discussion!) to get there.

It's like saying... Creationism is nonsense. I have irrefutable proof for the currently accepted scientific model -- Lord Xenu told me so.
 
2014-02-05 11:49:44 PM

m00: vicioushobbit: Talking to a counselor =/= knowing that somebody is still jacking off to the shiat that traumatized you.

/the more you know...

Look I don't disagree with the conclusion -- that clearly talking to counselors does less harm than the original incident. But you can't use a statement that makes no sense because it has an obvious counter-example (within the context of the very discussion!) to get there.

It's like saying... Creationism is nonsense. I have irrefutable proof for the currently accepted scientific model -- Lord Xenu told me so.


I disagree that the statement was used incorrectly.  Just because you randomly came up with that "obvious" counter example (you are the first one in the thread to point it out, mind you) doesn't mean that the original statement lacked merit.

In my opinion, it was a fairly sad deviation from the topic, especially considering you admittedly agree that there is a difference in the application of the repeated reliving of the scenario.

/TL;DR, To use a word from earlier in the thread, sir, you are being fairly pedantic here.  And possibly shallow.
//yes.  Shallow AND pedantic.
 
2014-02-06 12:09:36 AM
My best friend works in an ER. Last year, a 14 year old boy was brought in b/c he raped his little sister, one of the dogs, and attempted to rape his mother, but a neighbor intervened. His mom and the neighbor somehow got him into the car and were driving to the hospital, but he jumped out of the car on the freeway and was hit by another car.

My best friend isn't sure what happened to him once he was admitted and the mental health professionals got involved.
 
m00
2014-02-06 12:36:25 AM

vicioushobbit: m00: vicioushobbit: Talking to a counselor =/= knowing that somebody is still jacking off to the shiat that traumatized you.

/the more you know...

Look I don't disagree with the conclusion -- that clearly talking to counselors does less harm than the original incident. But you can't use a statement that makes no sense because it has an obvious counter-example (within the context of the very discussion!) to get there.

It's like saying... Creationism is nonsense. I have irrefutable proof for the currently accepted scientific model -- Lord Xenu told me so.

I disagree that the statement was used incorrectly.  Just because you randomly came up with that "obvious" counter example (you are the first one in the thread to point it out, mind you) doesn't mean that the original statement lacked merit.

In my opinion, it was a fairly sad deviation from the topic, especially considering you admittedly agree that there is a difference in the application of the repeated reliving of the scenario.

/TL;DR, To use a word from earlier in the thread, sir, you are being fairly pedantic here.  And possibly shallow.
//yes.  Shallow AND pedantic.


Okay, let me try this another way... here is the assertion I took issue with:

...having victims repeat their experiences over and over and over again can be unbelievably painful and awful, but it's been proven to reduce PTSD, and is tremendously beneficial to abuse survivors, as well as survivors of many traumatic experiences.

This does not seem like it could possibly be a true statement. When, in the course of a debate, one comes across a statement that defies logic, it is common to respond with [citation needed]. Hey, maybe I'm wrong. But according to the quote, it's been proven.

When a poster makes a claim saying X has been proven, is it off-limits to ask for the proof?
 
2014-02-06 12:51:56 AM
If there only had been a Hot Teacher that could have saved this boy.
 
2014-02-06 01:11:48 AM

m00: vicioushobbit: m00: vicioushobbit: Talking to a counselor =/= knowing that somebody is still jacking off to the shiat that traumatized you.

/the more you know...

Look I don't disagree with the conclusion -- that clearly talking to counselors does less harm than the original incident. But you can't use a statement that makes no sense because it has an obvious counter-example (within the context of the very discussion!) to get there.

It's like saying... Creationism is nonsense. I have irrefutable proof for the currently accepted scientific model -- Lord Xenu told me so.

I disagree that the statement was used incorrectly.  Just because you randomly came up with that "obvious" counter example (you are the first one in the thread to point it out, mind you) doesn't mean that the original statement lacked merit.

In my opinion, it was a fairly sad deviation from the topic, especially considering you admittedly agree that there is a difference in the application of the repeated reliving of the scenario.

/TL;DR, To use a word from earlier in the thread, sir, you are being fairly pedantic here.  And possibly shallow.
//yes.  Shallow AND pedantic.

Okay, let me try this another way... here is the assertion I took issue with:

...having victims repeat their experiences over and over and over again can be unbelievably painful and awful, but it's been proven to reduce PTSD, and is tremendously beneficial to abuse survivors, as well as survivors of many traumatic experiences.

This does not seem like it could possibly be a true statement. When, in the course of a debate, one comes across a statement that defies logic, it is common to respond with [citation needed]. Hey, maybe I'm wrong. But according to the quote, it's been proven.

When a poster makes a claim saying X has been proven, is it off-limits to ask for the proof?


With that clarification, then by all means, proceed with your request.  I'm not going to dig for the citation, myself, because I personally found discussing my experience repeatedly to be beneficial, and agreed with his assertion.
 
2014-02-06 01:48:31 AM

m00: vicioushobbit: m00: vicioushobbit: Talking to a counselor =/= knowing that somebody is still jacking off to the shiat that traumatized you.

/the more you know...

Look I don't disagree with the conclusion -- that clearly talking to counselors does less harm than the original incident. But you can't use a statement that makes no sense because it has an obvious counter-example (within the context of the very discussion!) to get there.

It's like saying... Creationism is nonsense. I have irrefutable proof for the currently accepted scientific model -- Lord Xenu told me so.

I disagree that the statement was used incorrectly.  Just because you randomly came up with that "obvious" counter example (you are the first one in the thread to point it out, mind you) doesn't mean that the original statement lacked merit.

In my opinion, it was a fairly sad deviation from the topic, especially considering you admittedly agree that there is a difference in the application of the repeated reliving of the scenario.

/TL;DR, To use a word from earlier in the thread, sir, you are being fairly pedantic here.  And possibly shallow.
//yes.  Shallow AND pedantic.

Okay, let me try this another way... here is the assertion I took issue with:

...having victims repeat their experiences over and over and over again can be unbelievably painful and awful, but it's been proven to reduce PTSD, and is tremendously beneficial to abuse survivors, as well as survivors of many traumatic experiences.

This does not seem like it could possibly be a true statement. When, in the course of a debate, one comes across a statement that defies logic, it is common to respond with [citation needed]. Hey, maybe I'm wrong. But according to the quote, it's been proven.

When a poster makes a claim saying X has been proven, is it off-limits to ask for the proof?


I'm the one who made the assertion, and it's pretty well known. I think they're using Mantram repetition now for PTSD, but I'd have to look that up. I'm also working tonight. But asking for citations is never out of bounds. Finkelhor & Browne is who I was thinking of, and their 4 tiered model w/ PTSD focus (which is repetition to reduce trauma). Again I'd google better shiat for you but I'm inbetween work sessions tonight. >
Additionally still going off memory, I don't know if I mentioned one of the small groups that doesn't work well for, people with disassociative disorders. I'm not talking MPD (which is whole other topic, and IMHO widely misunderstood and misattributed) but the more generalized DD group, where people with it tune out when things get to a specific stress level. Repetition doesn't work well there b/c you're just making them disassociate which makes that problem worse.

It's *hugely* beneficial for most survivors though. It's the disassociative disorders are more commonly seen in kids from households where abuse was chronic and unpredictable and there's a chronic state of fear and anxiety.

/rces off, and is late
 
2014-02-06 02:03:18 AM

FraggleStickCar: but does that mean that we absolutely cannot have a talk about the effect that pornography and violent video games can have on a person (particularly a young person with a developing brain)?


Here's the problem: we did. With actual studies and science and math and everything. But none of that satisfies the moral outrage, so we keep bringing it up.

If you've got new evidence that contradicts the previous studies please share it, and re-start the discussion. But if all you want to do is decry the way that these newfangled machines allow people to continue to behave exactly like they always have, I'm not sure you're going to get many serious takers.
 
2014-02-06 02:41:37 AM
www.xboxliving.com
 
2014-02-06 04:08:53 AM

cookiefleck: Because you are saying that the law enforcement/therapists will somehow damage her more than the rape itself did.


Oh, I can answer this one.

Did you know that it has been shown that counselling immediately after a traumatic event makes things worse, not better?  Have someone make themselves extremely vulnerable and talk about something repeatedly in detail right after they've been traumatised and all you do is deeply embed the memory in glorious detail.

The majority of counsellors I've dealt with do nothing but make people worse.  I have had clients who have been going to counsellors for 10 years after a simple rape (as in the least bad thing that can happen to you if you're going to be raped) or a one-off drunken grope by a creepy guy.  That is wrong.  That's not treatment.

Did you know a lot of counsellors become counsellors because something bad happened to them, and they want to help "fix" other "damaged" people (also true of social workers, by the way).  They believe they are uniquely able to help because they know what the client is going through.  Do you think it's a good idea to subject vulnerable people to them?

They enable instead of treating them.  They make them sickly dependent on the counsellor, who has unintentionally managed to teach them that they are irreparably damaged and incapable of a normal life.  The counsellors have made them internalise maladaptive coping strategies that have been far more damaging to their lives than the actual trauma of the rape.  Slowly their entire identity has become about being "victim of rape" (or "survivor of rape").  The patient has become less and less able, sicker and sicker.

There are a lot of counsellors I encountered in my work who deserve a knife to the chest for what they have done to people who went to them for help.  My opinion of them is barely higher than my opinion of Alcoholics Anonymous, which I think is a load of abusive bullshiat.

/Try some real treatment, like Cognitive Behavioural Therapy with an actual psychologist
//Complaining to one person or a group of people every week for the rest of your life is no cure for anything
 
2014-02-06 04:50:59 AM
Lady Indica: ...
Are you in NAMBLA? I'm asking seriously because they are the only people I've ever seen to put forth this EXACT argument.

not to get involved in the argument, but; where have you encountered NAMBLA-types w/ said argument?

/by all means, skimp on the details please...
 
2014-02-06 07:19:40 AM

TwistedFark: namegoeshere: I'm feeling a bit sick at the moment thinking of all the children treated in exactly this way. YEAY on the parents, whatever their mistakes may have been in the past, for reporting this. That was absolutely the correct, and ONLY response.

I actually disagree that this is the ONLY response. I think it's entirely possible to be supportive to the daughter without sending the son to jail in some cases. I don't know if I knew the entire details around this incident and the people involved if I would feel that this particular case would be one that I wouldn't send right to the cops, but I am willing to entertain that there are outcomes that could potentially be better for everyone, including the victim, than immediately involving the legal system.

Evidently these parents thought this was the right thing to do, so I'm not going to second guess them at all. But I do think it's possible for people acting in good faith to provide better outcomes than our "one size fits all" justice system. To be very clear - I am not advocating for ignoring the situation, quite the opposite, I am advocating for dealing with it, but acknowledging that a parents duty to their children isn't necessarily satisfied by letting essentially someone else (in this case the criminal justice system) sort it out for you.

It's likely the courts would do exactly what most families would do either way. The offender is going to be removed from the house and put into some sort of care system, both children will be put into counselling and there will be some sort of supervision on family visits. The only practical difference here is that the decisions around these terms is not in control of the family any more, but the courts.

The only potential upside of the above scenario is that maybe the government will pay for the services provided to the offender. But, assuming that you're on the hook for feeding him/clothing him and getting him mental health care, you're not really better off, in fact, ...


There is no way at all to provide care for either child and have it not be a police matter. All teachers, caregivers, medical professionals, counselors, and adults working in a professional capacity with children are mandated reporters. As soon as the child sees a doctor or any type of counselor, even the one at school, it is a police matter. In fact, if she ever lets slip that it happened at all, it is a police matter. The only way for the parents to keep it out of the hands of the police is to deny the girl medical care, and any and all counseling when she is a minor child (even if she is struggling with something else years later) and to heavily coach the child to never ever tell anyone what happened. Never talk about it. Act as if it never happened. And this isn't something you can try a bit and if it doesn't work you can go a different route. If it comes out later that you knew of the abuse and did not report it and denied medical care, you are guilty of a crime. So once you start "handling it as a family matter" you are stuck with that. Even if the victim shows signs of PTSD or some other physical or mental health issue in the future. This is never in the best interest of the child.
 
2014-02-06 09:54:34 AM
profplump

I did a bit of looking around, and there isn't a lot to work with.  There are studies showing harmful effects of porn/violence consumption, and others suggesting the effects are mostly neglible, pretty much all of them are either very limited in scope or have a very clear bias/agenda. I wish I still had access to JSTOR, Lexis Nexus, etc., because most of the stuff I'm finding on either side of the issue is pretty sketchy at best.

I can regale you all day with anecdotes about how video games desensitized me or others i know, or how watching porn at a young age was both very helpful and educational, but also to some degree warped my perceptions of human sexuality.  But that is all generally useless, and falls right in line with the anecdotal knee-jerk defensiveness I was talking about.  It'd be nice to see some more actually substantive independent and objective research done.
 
2014-02-06 10:49:34 AM

if_i_really_have_to: cookiefleck: Because you are saying that the law enforcement/therapists will somehow damage her more than the rape itself did.

Oh, I can answer this one.

Did you know that it has been shown that counselling immediately after a traumatic event makes things worse, not better?  Have someone make themselves extremely vulnerable and talk about something repeatedly in detail right after they've been traumatised and all you do is deeply embed the memory in glorious detail.

The majority of counsellors I've dealt with do nothing but make people worse.  I have had clients who have been going to counsellors for 10 years after a simple rape (as in the least bad thing that can happen to you if you're going to be raped) or a one-off drunken grope by a creepy guy.  That is wrong.  That's not treatment.

Did you know a lot of counsellors become counsellors because something bad happened to them, and they want to help "fix" other "damaged" people (also true of social workers, by the way).  They believe they are uniquely able to help because they know what the client is going through.  Do you think it's a good idea to subject vulnerable people to them?

They enable instead of treating them.  They make them sickly dependent on the counsellor, who has unintentionally managed to teach them that they are irreparably damaged and incapable of a normal life.  The counsellors have made them internalise maladaptive coping strategies that have been far more damaging to their lives than the actual trauma of the rape.  Slowly their entire identity has become about being "victim of rape" (or "survivor of rape").  The patient has become less and less able, sicker and sicker.

There are a lot of counsellors I encountered in my work who deserve a knife to the chest for what they have done to people who went to them for help.  My opinion of them is barely higher than my opinion of Alcoholics Anonymous, which I think is a load of abusive bullshiat.

/Try some real treatment, like Cognitive Behaviou ...


The problem here doesn't seem to be the therapy itself, but the counsellors applying it.  I've had some shiat counselors in my life.  I had a university one that, at a suicidal point in my life, told me to go "deal with it myself."  Were it not for a loving professor who caught me in the hall, I very well might have. 

I had to go through four before I found one I liked in one state, and found only shiat ones in another after I moved.  Living in Oregon, now, I have a hard time even looking for a counselor because I know the gauntlet it will be.

However, that one GOOD counselor I had? He saved my life even when he wasn't there, because he taught me how to take control of myself, get confidence in myself, and realize that I couldn't control what happened to me when I was a kid.

So, my argument would be, encourage victims to get treatment, but also encourage them to change doctors when treatment isn't working.  Would you go to the same mechanic, time after time, if he/she kept farking up your car? Would you go to your hair stylist if they never cut your hair the way you wanted it?

No, you'd shop around.  It's ok to fire your counselor.

/end speech.
 
2014-02-06 10:51:18 AM
Has nobody ever recovered from "bad touch?" Is it possible to be molested once as a kid and not have your whole life irretrievably ruined forever? Do you have to be so totally and completely broken that you'll spend the rest of your life nothing but a pathetic victim, summarily defined by one not-so-great experience?

A kid can get meningitis and recover, a kid can learn to deal with a parent or sibling getting run over by a bus, he can be raised as the only Jewish kid in a Samoan neighborhood and not go through life mentally maimed. Why does one blowjob have to be such a big deal?

It seems to be that defining a person as a Tragic Victim and subjecting them to years of counseling, pity and gossip can be worse than the actual 5 minute event. Is it possible that such a thing could happen once to somebody and have no more effect on her life trajectory than breaking a wrist when she's 8?

I've met a few people who were "experimented with" once or twice as kids who say it was not such a horrible thing, that worse things have happened that are supposed to be a "nstural part of life," that they don't walk around thinking of themselves as Child Abuse Survivors. That they grew up to get PhDs in engineering and raise healthy happy kids. Maybe they were wrong, In Denial, so horribly messed up that they had no idea how messed up they were? Maybe everybody who says "I just shrugged it off and went on with my life" should be involuntarily committed and subjected to treatment with mind-bending chemicals until they come to accept a version of reality that accords with this discourse of victimhood.

I'm certainly not advocating teaching teenage boys to get their little sisters to blow them nor am I supporting what he did in any way. It's just that all this carrying on sounds way too overblown, that at the very least it's not as helpful and supportive as it's made out to be.

200+ comments is too many to wade through so I don't know if this has already been addressed.
 
2014-02-06 11:09:10 AM

The One True TheDavid: Has nobody ever recovered from "bad touch?" Is it possible to be molested once as a kid and not have your whole life irretrievably ruined forever? Do you have to be so totally and completely broken that you'll spend the rest of your life nothing but a pathetic victim, summarily defined by one not-so-great experience?

A kid can get meningitis and recover, a kid can learn to deal with a parent or sibling getting run over by a bus, he can be raised as the only Jewish kid in a Samoan neighborhood and not go through life mentally maimed. Why does one blowjob have to be such a big deal?

It seems to be that defining a person as a Tragic Victim and subjecting them to years of counseling, pity and gossip can be worse than the actual 5 minute event. Is it possible that such a thing could happen once to somebody and have no more effect on her life trajectory than breaking a wrist when she's 8?

I've met a few people who were "experimented with" once or twice as kids who say it was not such a horrible thing, that worse things have happened that are supposed to be a "nstural part of life," that they don't walk around thinking of themselves as Child Abuse Survivors. That they grew up to get PhDs in engineering and raise healthy happy kids. Maybe they were wrong, In Denial, so horribly messed up that they had no idea how messed up they were? Maybe everybody who says "I just shrugged it off and went on with my life" should be involuntarily committed and subjected to treatment with mind-bending chemicals until they come to accept a version of reality that accords with this discourse of victimhood.

I'm certainly not advocating teaching teenage boys to get their little sisters to blow them nor am I supporting what he did in any way. It's just that all this carrying on sounds way too overblown, that at the very least it's not as helpful and supportive as it's made out to be.

200+ comments is too many to wade through so I don't know if this has already been addressed.


There are many people who don't seem to have a weight around them when they were abused as kids.  I have several cousins (all abused by the same uncle) that didn't seem to have the same issues that I do.  I don't talk with them much about it, so I cannot compare "severity" or anything else like that, but I'm guessing it has a lot to do with the individual. 

Everybody handles experiences differently.  Some people freak out from a fender bender, some people aren't phased if their prized car is destroyed in a wreck, as long as there are no injuries.  Some people could be molested/raped, and decide that they won't let it be their defining point, and can move on from it.  Some people can't.  Some people internalize that somehow they caused what happened to them to happen, and that guilt is what causes them major problems later.  Others are lucky enough to not carry guilt from being victimized.

The important thing about getting the counselling early with a young victim is, you don't know how deep the victimization goes.  She's raped by her brother, but who started the brother's violence? Maybe talking to the sister would reveal somebody else who's maybe molested her, but she didn't report.  It gives the victim a chance to know that what happened wasn't their fault, that the fault was on the person who victimized, and gives the victim stable ground to move forward.

Or, you know, you could avoid those counseling sessions and let the kid try to "figure out" for themselves what went down.  Let the parents pretend it didn't happen, to try to save the kid the memories.  Then later, as they develop trust and boundary issues, maybe sudden violent illness around certain triggers, and begin to think themselves insane and broken, you can send them to a counselor for help.  And then hope that you can undo a lifetime of living in fear.

Because you can't know HOW the child will receive the experience, it's better to go with the therapy that can at least provide the victim with the building blocks for recovery, rather than avoiding the issue, which teaches the victim that what happend to them was shameful, and they can very easily interpret it as THEIR shame.
 
2014-02-06 11:44:08 AM

umad: SecretAgentWoman: I would bet there are tens of thousands of 13 year old boys that have watched porn and didn't rape anyone, let alone their sister.

Yes, but the goal is to have zero 13 year old boys raping their sisters. So sorry, no porn for you. We should ban videogame systems too, just to be sure. Especially the ones that have the thing that goes up.

Who am I kidding. Farkers will never give up their electronic penis exctensions even if it means children will be raped.

/'Merica


I see what you did there.
 
2014-02-06 12:34:47 PM
To post an antithesis to Dope Kitty,

When I was about 14, the then 6 year old male child of a family that my family was friends with spontaneously decided to tell his mother that I had done some sexual thing or another to him and made him uncomfortable.  This is not something I did (or at least not something I recall doing).  How was it handled?

My mother told me to stop whatever i was doing and come sit and talk to her, NOW (and any time she spoke in capital letters, she meant farking business).  Then she just point-blank laid out the allegations, despite how shocking they were and asked me in order:
1) When he was there, was I alone with him?
2) When i was alone with him, was the door closed?
3) Did I do what I was accused of?

I don't know what happened after that.  No police were called, but we saw a lot less of that family.  As an adult, I asked her about it, and she said that as a parent, she felt it was her responsibility to a) give me all the details, even if i wasn't ready for them.  If I was guilty, more details could scare me into confession, as though she already knew, and at 14, she already knew I wasn't completely innocent anyway, and figured I could handle it.  b) to side with me no matter what, as my parent.  c) to understand the mother of the kid would side with him no matter what.  At the time, she took what I said, compared the other Mother's story, and they apparently concluded that there was no great solution to this, but perhaps it was best to go their separate ways.

I think she did it correctly.  The parents should always side with their favorite child.
 
2014-02-06 12:38:53 PM

Ed Grubermann: WTP 2: just castrate him. and i mean now.

And what will that do? You don't need a hard-on to sexually assault someone.


Removing the testicles pretty much removes all sex drive. You don't get horny without those hormones.
 
2014-02-06 12:53:52 PM

The One True TheDavid: Has nobody ever recovered from "bad touch?" Is it possible to be molested once as a kid and not have your whole life irretrievably ruined forever? Do you have to be so totally and completely broken that you'll spend the rest of your life nothing but a pathetic victim, summarily defined by one not-so-great experience?

A kid can get meningitis and recover, a kid can learn to deal with a parent or sibling getting run over by a bus, he can be raised as the only Jewish kid in a Samoan neighborhood and not go through life mentally maimed. Why does one blowjob have to be such a big deal?

It seems to be that defining a person as a Tragic Victim and subjecting them to years of counseling, pity and gossip can be worse than the actual 5 minute event. Is it possible that such a thing could happen once to somebody and have no more effect on her life trajectory than breaking a wrist when she's 8?

I've met a few people who were "experimented with" once or twice as kids who say it was not such a horrible thing, that worse things have happened that are supposed to be a "nstural part of life," that they don't walk around thinking of themselves as Child Abuse Survivors. That they grew up to get PhDs in engineering and raise healthy happy kids. Maybe they were wrong, In Denial, so horribly messed up that they had no idea how messed up they were? Maybe everybody who says "I just shrugged it off and went on with my life" should be involuntarily committed and subjected to treatment with mind-bending chemicals until they come to accept a version of reality that accords with this discourse of victimhood.

I'm certainly not advocating teaching teenage boys to get their little sisters to blow them nor am I supporting what he did in any way. It's just that all this carrying on sounds way too overblown, that at the very least it's not as helpful and supportive as it's made out to be.

200+ comments is too many to wade through so I don't know if this has already been addressed.


Some people just have a victim mentality, and this applies far beyond anything sexual. I have friends who believe just about everything wrong with their life is because of this or that and not because of their own actions or inactions or just dwelling on the past. We've all been through shiat of one sort or another, some of us move on, others dwell.
 
2014-02-06 12:56:23 PM

namegoeshere: TwistedFark: namegoeshere: I'm feeling a bit sick at the moment thinking of all the children treated in exactly this way. YEAY on the parents, whatever their mistakes may have been in the past, for reporting this. That was absolutely the correct, and ONLY response.

I actually disagree that this is the ONLY response. I think it's entirely possible to be supportive to the daughter without sending the son to jail in some cases. I don't know if I knew the entire details around this incident and the people involved if I would feel that this particular case would be one that I wouldn't send right to the cops, but I am willing to entertain that there are outcomes that could potentially be better for everyone, including the victim, than immediately involving the legal system.

Evidently these parents thought this was the right thing to do, so I'm not going to second guess them at all. But I do think it's possible for people acting in good faith to provide better outcomes than our "one size fits all" justice system. To be very clear - I am not advocating for ignoring the situation, quite the opposite, I am advocating for dealing with it, but acknowledging that a parents duty to their children isn't necessarily satisfied by letting essentially someone else (in this case the criminal justice system) sort it out for you.

It's likely the courts would do exactly what most families would do either way. The offender is going to be removed from the house and put into some sort of care system, both children will be put into counselling and there will be some sort of supervision on family visits. The only practical difference here is that the decisions around these terms is not in control of the family any more, but the courts.

The only potential upside of the above scenario is that maybe the government will pay for the services provided to the offender. But, assuming that you're on the hook for feeding him/clothing him and getting him mental health care, you're not really better off, in fact, ...

There is no way at all to provide care for either child and have it not be a police matter. All teachers, caregivers, medical professionals, counselors, and adults working in a professional capacity with children are mandated reporters. As soon as the child sees a doctor or any type of counselor, even the one at school, it is a police matter. In fact, if she ever lets slip that it happened at all, it is a police matter. The only way for the parents to keep it out of the hands of the police is to deny the girl medical care, and any and all counseling when she is a minor child (even if she is struggling with something else years later) and to heavily coach the child to never ever tell anyone what happened. Never talk about it. Act as if it never happened. And this isn't something you can try a bit and if it doesn't work you can go a different route. If it comes out later that you knew of the abuse and did not report it and denied medical care, you are guilty of a crime. So once you start "handling it as a family matter" you are stuck with that. Even if the victim shows signs of PTSD or some other physical or mental health issue in the future. This is never in the best interest of the child.


That whole mandatory reporting thing kinda bugs me actually. If someone did something to me, I'd have been less inclined to ever tell anyone if I knew they were required to betray my trust and bring in the police.
 
2014-02-06 02:43:56 PM

dopekitty74: Profedius: I find I want more information into how this act was discovered. I think rape in the idea that he held her down tore her underwear off is less likely than a case of sexual experimentation that resulted in him having actual sex with his sister. I am guessing at some point she had wanted the play to end most likely at the point of penetration and he did not stop. I guess sometime after the event she told a parent. I am still wondering how as a parent you go from finding out your son had sex with your daughter to calling the police to have him arrested. For the wellbeing of the family wouldn't the parents try to correct the issue quietly and quickly before bringing in law enforcement? This event has been dragged out for I am guessing months with all of society expressing how horrible this was and how she was victimized by her own brother. She is going to be damaged now for life when it could have been over and recovered from more quickly. I would have handled the situation differently which I think would have had less impact on the development of both children.

this is how it was handled in my family when my sixteen year old cousin forced me to give him oral sex when I was six.  He didn't come over anymore, my parents talked to me about how he was bad and it was ok for me to be upset about it.  At the time though, I really didn't think much of it except that it was gross.  I already had peeked at my brother's skin mags that were hidden in the bathroom (he's a lot older than me) and also at some point remember peeking thru the bathroom door when my dad was peeing because i was curious about how men peed.

That being said, there's a lot of people that would say that i'm "broken"  as a result of the abuse incidents, although I tend to disagree.  Yes, i'm promiscuous, but I enjoy myself and don't feel ashamed about it.  Yes, i'm kinky, but not crazily so.  I've always figured that one could go one of two ways after childhood sexual abuse, one could be frigid or ...




Thank you for pointing out what I was trying to say that the people seeing the word rape can't seem to get into their heads. You talk to both kids about how wrong it is to have sex with your sister and then you take steps to ensure that it doesn't happen again. I played around with my 2nd cousin and my 2nd cousin in law from the time they were 11 and 10 until they were 21 and 20. We were never caught and the sex was consensual though it didn't start out as sex. It started out as curiosity and showing then moved to touching and a bit later oral. Sexual intercourse happened within the first year of this activity and then was pretty regular event any chance we got to slip away which became easier once I could drive. What started the sexual activity was the discovery of my Grandpa's adult magazines in his basement and our curiosity after/during looking though them. All three of us were aware that the adults would not approve of our activities had we been caught, but we all thought it felt good and was worth it. Currently they are both married and do not have sexual activity with each other or me anymore. To the law and adults what we did would have been considered rape and or sexual abuse even though no one was raped or abused.

Having the child in this story say that he picked his sister because she was small and didn't recall things does not indicate rape. He could be indicating that she wouldn't stop him thinking it was wrong and would think nothing of it. When I think of rape I think of the person being forced like you were and not a "Hey I found something that feels good." type of play.
 
2014-02-06 03:00:00 PM

AbortionsForAll: vicioushobbit: AbortionsForAll:
You do realize that your entire argument against me consists of you putting words into my mouth and essentially inventing an entire set of circumstances which only exist within the confines of your imagination..?

No.  I do, however, realize, that you cannot see how the below statement of yours:

...the various social workers & law-enforcement personnel who are caring for the little girl/victim are almost certainly doing vastly more damage than the brother/rapist actually did.

is trollish.  You are literally claiming that the therapy she receives and the investigation is MORE TRAUMATIC than being raped by her older brother, a kid she very likely trusted and respected, if not idolized (like many kids do their big siblings).

That breach of trust, that violation of a child's innocence, that abuse of their body...LESS damaging than somebody asking questions about it?

Yet you claim it's worth, and provide no substantiation to WHY you believe it is worse.  You flat out refuse to provide substantiation.  You, sir/ma'am, whether you see it or not, are in fact a farking troll.

And I'm done with you.  Welcome to one of the very few people on my ignore list.

Thank you. Yes. Add me to your ignore list. If the end result is that you never reply to anything I say ever again, then I consider that a win.

Your are operating under the assumption that the 8 year old victim has an adult-level understanding of the incident (in reality, as a small child, she probably has very little understanding of what actually happened to her - fortunately for her). Her likely level of understanding of the situation being what it is, I would wager that the long line of weepy adults repeatedly telling the girl how she has been victimized and damaged is probably more traumatic for her (not to mention the sheerly massive level of attention said adults are now paying to her private areas).

I don't see what's so hard to understand about this concept. Hell, an actual m ...


I agree with you too and was trying to say the same thing in a different way. I think people have a hard time getting past the rape aspect and into the mind of the child at that age. When I was ten and a girl/woman would touch my penis all I considered was how good it felt. I later learned that it was wrong, but I disagreed with those telling me that it was wrong, because it felt good and no one was getting hurt so how could it be wrong. I wonder how messed up I would be today had I told anyone and then had to go through the process of being told and reinforced into the victim mentality.
 
2014-02-06 05:52:25 PM

Profedius: AbortionsForAll: vicioushobbit: AbortionsForAll:
You do realize that your entire argument against me consists of you putting words into my mouth and essentially inventing an entire set of circumstances which only exist within the confines of your imagination..?

No.  I do, however, realize, that you cannot see how the below statement of yours:

...the various social workers & law-enforcement personnel who are caring for the little girl/victim are almost certainly doing vastly more damage than the brother/rapist actually did.

is trollish.  You are literally claiming that the therapy she receives and the investigation is MORE TRAUMATIC than being raped by her older brother, a kid she very likely trusted and respected, if not idolized (like many kids do their big siblings).

That breach of trust, that violation of a child's innocence, that abuse of their body...LESS damaging than somebody asking questions about it?

Yet you claim it's worth, and provide no substantiation to WHY you believe it is worse.  You flat out refuse to provide substantiation.  You, sir/ma'am, whether you see it or not, are in fact a farking troll.

And I'm done with you.  Welcome to one of the very few people on my ignore list.

Thank you. Yes. Add me to your ignore list. If the end result is that you never reply to anything I say ever again, then I consider that a win.

Your are operating under the assumption that the 8 year old victim has an adult-level understanding of the incident (in reality, as a small child, she probably has very little understanding of what actually happened to her - fortunately for her). Her likely level of understanding of the situation being what it is, I would wager that the long line of weepy adults repeatedly telling the girl how she has been victimized and damaged is probably more traumatic for her (not to mention the sheerly massive level of attention said adults are now paying to her private areas).

I don't see what's so hard to understand about this concept. ...


Thank you. That's my point exactly. It doesn't make the fact that you were molested less wrong, but the situation being "wrong" doesn't necessarily correlate with psychological damage inflicted. Most likely, if law enforcement & child protective services had gotten involved, your ultimate feelings on the matter would be complete different and you'd have been forced to go through an awfully traumatic experience (the experience of being interrogated by various adults & all of the swirling attention being paid to your genitals). I'd say such attention would have made the situation MUCH worse for you, since you personally do not feel traumatized by the actual molestation (as you didn't really understand the gravity of the situation when it was actually happening to you).

Some people just love hating pedophiles so much that they don't care to stop and think about the consequences to the child.
 
2014-02-06 06:07:01 PM

Lady Indica: cbt is highly successful


I wish you'd give me some cbt.
 
2014-02-06 07:46:22 PM

vicioushobbit: The problem here doesn't seem to be the therapy itself, but the counsellors applying it.


A billion times this and I would argue it's still one of the biggest problems in psychology today. There's also plenty of shiat "treatments", like 'rebirthing' too. There's also a huge lack of child psychiatrists, which means that getting a kid assessed by one in some states is literally impossible. So they have to go to a pediatrician for prescriptions who may have little to no expertise in these areas. That's going a little afar field...but it's a serious problem.

I would also say anecdotally that in my personal experience when I was studying psych and today that there are FAR more farked up 'therapists' (MFCC/LSW/etc) than good ones. Far too many are there working on their personal issues and it bleeds onto their clients. Or they get so hyperfocused in one area, that everyone is an orange. And if an apple shows up, by god they'll MAKE it an orange!

This can make it unbelievably difficult to find not only a good therapist, but one that's good for you. The best suggestion I can offer to anyone who is looking or needs one, is to go with someone who does cognitive behavioral therapy and has a good background.
 
2014-02-07 12:29:10 AM

Lady Indica: Or they get so hyperfocused in one area, that everyone is an orange. And if an apple shows up, by god they'll MAKE it an orange!


Very very well said.
 
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