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(Yahoo)   Unmarried Catholic school teacher fired after she becomes pregnant. Wait, didn't an an unwed single mother feature rather prominently in the '"origin story" of this religion??   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 50
    More: Fail, teacher fired, Montana Standard, Roman Catholic theology, teachers  
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5843 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Feb 2014 at 1:06 PM (36 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
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2014-02-05 01:00:45 PM  
7 votes:
You have to give props to Mary. She stuck to her "But I'm a VIRGIN" story, and 2000 years later, people are still buying it.
2014-02-05 12:35:42 PM  
4 votes:

Weaver95: Well, it is their club house so they get to set the rules. Is it kinda bullshiat? Maybe. But thems the rules if your boss is a religious organization. Firing a pregnant woman isn't a very kind thing to do tho. It's rather mean spirited IMHO.


To say nothing of the fact that a Religion which claims to be pro-life, and operates "Crisis Pregnancy Centers" designed to help support women who chose to have a child when it is a financial hardship for them to do so, is being, at best counter-productive when they destroy the livelihood of a mother to be.  and perhaps sending a message to other people in her situation that they should abort a baby before the pregnancy is known to avoid a similar fate
2014-02-05 12:20:56 PM  
4 votes:

scottydoesntknow: Weaver95: Well, it is their club house so they get to set the rules. Is it kinda bullshiat? Maybe. But thems the rules if your boss is a religious organization. Firing a pregnant woman isn't a very kind thing to do tho. It's rather mean spirited IMHO.

Yea, but she's a whore, and Jesus didn't hang out with no whores.

Wait, what? He did? Well shiat!


As I said to someone saying "Well she signed a contract, so ..."

because one of the core message of Christianity is that rigid adherence to the letter of any law should always trump compassion or forgiveness
2014-02-05 12:08:16 PM  
4 votes:
Well, it is their club house so they get to set the rules. Is it kinda bullshiat? Maybe. But thems the rules if your boss is a religious organization. Firing a pregnant woman isn't a very kind thing to do tho. It's rather mean spirited IMHO.
2014-02-05 03:23:30 PM  
3 votes:

Jeteupthemiddle: All catholic school teachers are well aware of the morality clause in their contracts before they sign it.

And probably nearly all teachers break that clause.  If their pastors find out, then the consequences are on them.


Put on his Extreme Lawyer hat: Unless the school is taking active steps to verify that men are not having sex as well (say 24-hour video surveillance or  chastity belts that work like ankle monitors) It seems that this particular morality clause  only affects women, and is, therefore a "facially neutral policy with a disparate impact on a protected class", and as such may be grounds for a Title VII -based lawsuit for employment discrimination
2014-02-05 01:08:14 PM  
3 votes:
Meh, she knew the rules.
2014-02-05 12:29:15 PM  
3 votes:
This is a middle school, so my question is whether the father of the baby was expelled or at least suspended.
2014-02-05 12:20:46 PM  
3 votes:
Single mother? She was married, she just hadn't consummated the marriage yet. Which I guess could technically mean that her marriage wasn't official, making her "unwed," but that's a pretty fine hair to split. One could say that her husband was a cuckold, I suppose, but since she didn't technically have sex to conceive her child, that, too, is a difficult distinction to apply. The easiest accusation would be to say that her child is a bastard, but if it's the potential bastard status that makes this teacher unemployable, one would think the school would have to wait for her to have the child first. At least, if they wanted to be completely within the rules. Rules seem to be pretty important here, so I'd think they'd want that.

Of course, even the bastard issue is trumped by the virginity. So if this teacher wanted to keep her job, she could conceivably submit to a virginity exam, perhaps administered by the school headmaster. Virginity is important to them, so I'd imagine he's trained in the administration of said exam. If she proves to be a virgin, she should be allowed to keep her job. And I'd think that knowing one of their teachers was about to give birth to the second Messiah would be a real perk to the school, something they could use for future fundraisers and enrollment drives. You'd think they'd want to hold onto that.

On that note, there are, out there, speakers who offer their audience the opportunity to become born again virgins. That may have some potential application here as well, if for some reason this young woman couldn't pass the exam.
2014-02-05 12:14:19 PM  
3 votes:

Weaver95: Well, it is their club house so they get to set the rules. Is it kinda bullshiat? Maybe. But thems the rules if your boss is a religious organization. Firing a pregnant woman isn't a very kind thing to do tho. It's rather mean spirited IMHO.


Yea, but she's a whore, and Jesus didn't hang out with no whores.

Wait, what? He did? Well shiat!
2014-02-05 03:00:22 PM  
2 votes:
I am reminded of a time in college, at Notre Dame.  I was in the NROTC unit there.  One of the female midshipmen got pregnant - she wasn't married.  The NROTC unit began processing her discharge paperwork, as you aren't allowed to be a pregnant midshipman.

Father Hesburgh (yeah, that one) went to bat for her, and said that since it was against Catholic teaching for her to have an abortion (which would have allowed her to keep her scholarship with the Navy though), he would ask ND to reconsider its relationship with the Navy, since that was the position they were putting the girl in - abortion and continue her education, or stay pregnant and be forced out of the NROTC program.

She got to keep her baby and stay in the Navy.

Where is that logic and compassion with the Church now?
2014-02-05 02:21:33 PM  
2 votes:
Guys I know you all think you are making great points about christian forgiveness but this woman doesn't need to be forgiven for a damn thing.  What goes into and comes out of her vagina is her own damn business.  It's illegal to fire an employee for getting knocked up, side stepping it with some code of conduct nonsense is bullshiat.
2014-02-05 01:39:08 PM  
2 votes:

Weaver95: But thems the rules if your boss is a religious organization.


Which is a practice we should stop immediately. We'd never tolerate "we don't hire blacks because our boss preaches against blacks" -- why on earth do we tolerate it for this sort of thing?
2014-02-05 01:15:30 PM  
2 votes:
Consummation as necessary aspect of making the marriage official originated with the Catholics.    The Jews in Mary's time (as well as today) consider the marriage official when the erusin and the nissuin have both taken place.  At that point the groom owns the bride.
2014-02-05 01:11:52 PM  
2 votes:
Because having an unemployed single mother is what's best for the child.
2014-02-05 12:31:10 PM  
2 votes:

Weaver95: Well, it is their club house so they get to set the rules. Is it kinda bullshiat? Maybe. But thems the rules if your boss is a religious organization. Firing a pregnant woman isn't a very kind thing to do tho. It's rather mean spirited IMHO.


Pretty much all of this.
2014-02-05 07:00:19 PM  
1 votes:

That Guy Jeff: Who cares? She chose to be a teacher, she chose to accept "whatever job she could get", she chose to work at a religious place. The religious nut school  said "Hey, we will buy your services, but only if you follow these rules" and she said "OK". She broke the rules, they stopped buying her services. That's it.  I can't even comprehend in what universe "her being happy to take whatever job she could get" means she is somehow immune to the rules of the place buying her services.


You're absolutely right.  You can't comprehend.
2014-02-05 04:35:11 PM  
1 votes:

Cynicism101: That Guy Jeff: If you don't want to be subject to ridiculous religious rules, don't VOLUNTARILY make yourself subject to ridiculous religious rules. It's that simple.

I suppose it never occurred to you how few qualified teachers get teaching jobs. She was probably just happy to take whatever job she could get.


And...? Who cares? She chose to be a teacher, she chose to accept "whatever job she could get", she chose to work at a religious place. The religious nut school  said "Hey, we will buy your services, but only if you follow these rules" and she said "OK". She broke the rules, they stopped buying her services. That's it.  I can't even comprehend in what universe "her being happy to take whatever job she could get" means she is somehow immune to the rules of the place buying her services.
2014-02-05 04:20:31 PM  
1 votes:

nmrsnr: Virgin pregnancies are actually possible naturally, in rare circumstance, and with today's fertilization technology, is fairly simple (if somewhat expensive) to accomplish. I say the burden of proof is on the school is to prove she had sex.


Since this would be a civil matter, all they'd have to do is depose her and ask if she'd had sex out of wedlock, knew who the father was, etc.

The bigger issue to me is the idea that she has "stopped" being Catholic simply because she had sex out of wedlock.  Seems to me that all she's done is sin.  And if she's sinned, then she should go to confession and seek forgiveness.  Just because you've sinned doesn't get you excommunicated.  That's why I don't understand the firing.
2014-02-05 03:53:54 PM  
1 votes:

Magorn: Put on his Extreme Lawyer hat: Unless the school is taking active steps to verify that men are not having sex as well (say 24-hour video surveillance or chastity belts that work like ankle monitors) It seems that this particular morality clause only affects women, and is, therefore a "facially neutral policy with a disparate impact on a protected class", and as such may be grounds for a Title VII -based lawsuit for employment discrimination


Hell, look at an article we had here last year.  Two unmarried teachers at a Catholic school were dating, the woman got pregnant, they moved in together without getting married, and guess which one got fired?
2014-02-05 03:36:54 PM  
1 votes:

Uisce Beatha: I am reminded of a time in college, at Notre Dame.  I was in the NROTC unit there.  One of the female midshipmen got pregnant - she wasn't married.  The NROTC unit began processing her discharge paperwork, as you aren't allowed to be a pregnant midshipman.

Father Hesburgh (yeah, that one) went to bat for her, and said that since it was against Catholic teaching for her to have an abortion (which would have allowed her to keep her scholarship with the Navy though), he would ask ND to reconsider its relationship with the Navy, since that was the position they were putting the girl in - abortion and continue her education, or stay pregnant and be forced out of the NROTC program.

She got to keep her baby and stay in the Navy.

Where is that logic and compassion with the Church now?


That appears to actually be in line with Catholic teachings - encourage life, don't encourage people to commit greater sins to hide smaller ones.
Happily, an environment in which pregnant women are shown forgiveness and compassion isn't just useful if you're Catholic.

(I'm a pro-choice atheist, for disclaimer purposes)
2014-02-05 03:15:18 PM  
1 votes:
Person willfully violates terms of employment contract and gets fired.

Happens all the time folks, her way of violating the contract really isn't the issue.
2014-02-05 03:05:32 PM  
1 votes:

theknuckler_33: I went to 12 years of Catholic school. My brother too. When we were young my parents used to use the 'threat' of sending us to public school (cue scary music) to keep us in line and dammit if it didn't farking work. My sister was born 9 years after me (my brother is nearly 2 years old than me), by the time she was in 6th-7th grade, she was begging my parents to let her go to our local public school district. And they allowed it. I guess by then, they realized saving that money was worth it? Or maybe they relented to 'their little girl'? Who knows, but my sister is a goddamn genius. She participated in the drama club which was 10X better than at our Catholic high school, went to college for film production, and has had a great career in the film/TV industry. You can see her IMDB page here.


I begged and begged and begged, when 8th grade came, to be allowed to go to public high school.  I recall my mother *almost* relented and then at the last minute, my parents insisted I go to Catholic high school. And I ended up in an all girls school (in an attempt to help me get along with girls better - instead, I learned to loathe women more than I did and stopped speaking to just about anyone for a couple of years.)

I truly believe i'd be a lot more normal looking and a far more normal person if I'd gone to public school.  I also think I'd be a hell of a lot more intelligent and probably would have taken a totally different path than I did for college (which was go to the most liberal liberal arts college ever, for writing, when i really should have gone to state university cheap and then paid for law school.)
2014-02-05 02:40:49 PM  
1 votes:
csb

I went to 12 years of Catholic school. My brother too. When we were young my parents used to use the 'threat' of sending us to public school (cue scary music) to keep us in line and dammit if it didn't farking work. My sister was born 9 years after me (my brother is nearly 2 years old than me), by the time she was in 6th-7th grade, she was begging my parents to let her go to our local public school district. And they allowed it. I guess by then, they realized saving that money was worth it? Or maybe they relented to 'their little girl'? Who knows, but my sister is a goddamn genius. She participated in the drama club which was 10X better than at our Catholic high school, went to college for film production, and has had a great career in the film/TV industry. You can see her IMDB page here.

The point? Unless you live in a terrible school district, I don't understand why anyone sends their kids to Catholic school. Save the money, send them to public school and CCD (assuming their religious education is so important). I kick myself to this day for not remaining bad enough to cause my parents to actually send me to the public school. I might not have had such a problem dealing with girls for as long as I did. Thanks a lot for sending me to an all-boys school! fark!

Still love my parents, they're really cool, srsly.

/csb
2014-02-05 02:25:40 PM  
1 votes:
Quite the bummer for women that they have a physical characteristic that could expose their pre-marital sexual relations unlike some people of certain other sex.

Wouldn't it be funny if men grew a big-ass farking wart in between their eyes when some broad they farked got pregnant that lasted as long as the pregnancy. LULZ!
2014-02-05 02:17:33 PM  
1 votes:

BMFPitt: Well maybe that will teach her an important lesson about Catholicism.


Or, at the very least, an important lesson about the enforcement of employment contracts and what happens when you do something that gives the employer specific grounds to terminate you.
2014-02-05 02:17:20 PM  
1 votes:
What would they have said had she been raped and claimed she wouldn't get an abortion because God wouldn't approve?
2014-02-05 02:16:42 PM  
1 votes:

clear_prop: I went to a Catholic HS. Girls that got pregnant were kicked out. Girls that had an abortion were allowed to stay.


And the guys who knocked all of them up were allowed to stay.
2014-02-05 02:05:07 PM  
1 votes:

The Fifth Dentist: She should claim " immaculate conception " and make the church/school prove that to be impossible


The phrase "Immaculate Conception" has nothing to do with Mary's pregnancy.
2014-02-05 02:03:01 PM  
1 votes:

scottydoesntknow: Weaver95: Well, it is their club house so they get to set the rules. Is it kinda bullshiat? Maybe. But thems the rules if your boss is a religious organization. Firing a pregnant woman isn't a very kind thing to do tho. It's rather mean spirited IMHO.

Yea, but she's a whore, and Jesus didn't hang out with no whores.

Wait, what? He did? Well shiat!


If you mean Mary Magdalene, then no, he didn't. Common misconception, though.
2014-02-05 01:54:04 PM  
1 votes:
Because of the hoopla surrounding that new movie about the Irish woman that was forced to give up her child because she was unwed, there has been a lot of talk about this sort of thing lately.

I know if I were a woman, and the church told me "We're sorry, you have to give up your child", for ANY reason, that would be a game breaker for me.  "Well...  I guess I'm not Catholic anymore.  So long, Farkers!!"
2014-02-05 01:49:46 PM  
1 votes:
If you worked for the NAACP do you think it might impact your position if they discovered that you belong to the KKK?

If you worked for the NSA do you think it might impact your position if they discovered that you belonged to a Taliban sleeper cell?

If you worked for the court system do you think it might impact your position if they discovered that you got a DUI?

Some employers have standards and/or moral clauses.  You are made aware of this when hired.  If you can't abide by those then you should expect that it will directly affect your continuity of service.

/ Organized religion = organized contradiction
2014-02-05 01:47:53 PM  
1 votes:

Pocket Ninja: Single mother? She was married, she just hadn't consummated the marriage yet. Which I guess could technically mean that her marriage wasn't official, making her "unwed," but that's a pretty fine hair to split. One could say that her husband was a cuckold, I suppose, but since she didn't technically have sex to conceive her child, that, too, is a difficult distinction to apply. The easiest accusation would be to say that her child is a bastard, but if it's the potential bastard status that makes this teacher unemployable, one would think the school would have to wait for her to have the child first. At least, if they wanted to be completely within the rules. Rules seem to be pretty important here, so I'd think they'd want that.

Of course, even the bastard issue is trumped by the virginity. So if this teacher wanted to keep her job, she could conceivably submit to a virginity exam, perhaps administered by the school headmaster. Virginity is important to them, so I'd imagine he's trained in the administration of said exam. If she proves to be a virgin, she should be allowed to keep her job. And I'd think that knowing one of their teachers was about to give birth to the second Messiah would be a real perk to the school, something they could use for future fundraisers and enrollment drives. You'd think they'd want to hold onto that.

On that note, there are, out there, speakers who offer their audience the opportunity to become born again virgins. That may have some potential application here as well, if for some reason this young woman couldn't pass the exam.




Mary and Joseph were engaged, not married, when she became pregnant. Joseph ended up marrying her anyway.
2014-02-05 01:46:48 PM  
1 votes:

kpaxoid: Bit'O'Gristle: rocketpants: Because having an unemployed single mother is what's best for the child.

/Funny you say that...there was a story years ago about a couple that were in "good standing" whatever that means, i guess that means "good mindless sheep" with the church, and they had a little girl.  Anyway, turns out the girl was allergic to whatever the wafer was made of (rice? wheat?) that you have to eat during communion.  She could have a horrible reaction to it, and die.  Anyway, they asked their priest if he could substitute something else, as it was just a symbol of "the body of christ" and not actually crists's flesh, that would be odd, and sick.  Anyway, the priest sent this request all the way up the derp food chain, and the family was told, "NO, we cannot do this".

So, in essence, since she couldn't take communion, she was hell bound  by the churches rules, even though she had done nothing wrong, and was only 5 or so years old.  If i remember right, the Baptists took the family in after the family wised up and told the Catholic Church to stick it up their old tan tailpipe.   You farkers can look up the story if you wish, was a long time ago, but that is what i remember of it.

The girl was 8 years old.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/5762478/#.UvKDefvva8E


ah...thanks..was a long time ago.
2014-02-05 01:41:22 PM  
1 votes:

nmrsnr: Belias: nmrsnr: Virgin pregnancies are actually possible naturally

What is this I don't even

I guess it depends on what you mean by "virgin", but (to keep it mature and scientific) if a dude blows his wad all over woman's lady bits, his little swimmers can maek babby even if his dongle never touches her vagoo.


And I must thank you for keeping mature and scientific. Oh, and you now owe me a new monitor.
2014-02-05 01:41:16 PM  
1 votes:
If you don't want to be subject to ridiculous religious rules, don't VOLUNTARILY make yourself subject to ridiculous religious rules. It's that simple.
2014-02-05 01:39:34 PM  
1 votes:
There is one huge thing I can't find in this or the other article I saw somewhere about the case, and it's a rather big issue- was the pregnancy planned or accidental?

Before I get jumped on, the difference is in the *intent*.  In one case, she is actively and willfully flouting the moral teachings of a religious employer by saying "your morality sucks".  That really is cause for dismissal.  Want to 'live in sin' and be a teacher, go work for the public schools.

On the other hand, lets say the baby is an "oopsie".  Guess what, adults sometimes make mistakes.  In that case, the school could use the whole thing as a 'teaching moment' and teach a lesson in the virtues of charity and forgiveness and not being a bunch of zero-tolerance jackasses.  It's sure better than firing her for a mistake.  Dismissal and public shame is why (to some extent) Catholic women have been getting quiet abortions for years, rather than accept the baby and be called 'whore'.
2014-02-05 01:37:26 PM  
1 votes:

Belias: nmrsnr: Virgin pregnancies are actually possible naturally

What is this I don't even


I guess it depends on what you mean by "virgin", but (to keep it mature and scientific) if a dude blows his wad all over woman's lady bits, his little swimmers can maek babby even if his dongle never touches her vagoo.
2014-02-05 01:32:06 PM  
1 votes:

Bit'O'Gristle: rocketpants: Because having an unemployed single mother is what's best for the child.

/Funny you say that...there was a story years ago about a couple that were in "good standing" whatever that means, i guess that means "good mindless sheep" with the church, and they had a little girl.  Anyway, turns out the girl was allergic to whatever the wafer was made of (rice? wheat?) that you have to eat during communion.  She could have a horrible reaction to it, and die.  Anyway, they asked their priest if he could substitute something else, as it was just a symbol of "the body of christ" and not actually crists's flesh, that would be odd, and sick.  Anyway, the priest sent this request all the way up the derp food chain, and the family was told, "NO, we cannot do this".

So, in essence, since she couldn't take communion, she was hell bound  by the churches rules, even though she had done nothing wrong, and was only 5 or so years old.  If i remember right, the Baptists took the family in after the family wised up and told the Catholic Church to stick it up their old tan tailpipe.   You farkers can look up the story if you wish, was a long time ago, but that is what i remember of it.


The girl was 8 years old.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/5762478/#.UvKDefvva8E
2014-02-05 01:29:17 PM  
1 votes:

rocketpants: Because having an unemployed single mother is what's best for the child.


/Funny you say that...there was a story years ago about a couple that were in "good standing" whatever that means, i guess that means "good mindless sheep" with the church, and they had a little girl.  Anyway, turns out the girl was allergic to whatever the wafer was made of (rice? wheat?) that you have to eat during communion.  She could have a horrible reaction to it, and die.  Anyway, they asked their priest if he could substitute something else, as it was just a symbol of "the body of christ" and not actually crists's flesh, that would be odd, and sick.  Anyway, the priest sent this request all the way up the derp food chain, and the family was told, "NO, we cannot do this".

So, in essence, since she couldn't take communion, she was hell bound  by the churches rules, even though she had done nothing wrong, and was only 5 or so years old.  If i remember right, the Baptists took the family in after the family wised up and told the Catholic Church to stick it up their old tan tailpipe.   You farkers can look up the story if you wish, was a long time ago, but that is what i remember of it.
2014-02-05 01:25:21 PM  
1 votes:
All catholic school teachers are well aware of the morality clause in their contracts before they sign it.

And probably nearly all teachers break that clause.  If their pastors find out, then the consequences are on them.
2014-02-05 01:21:40 PM  
1 votes:

scottydoesntknow: nmrsnr: Virgin pregnancies are actually possible naturally, in rare circumstance, and with today's fertilization technology, is fairly simple (if somewhat expensive) to accomplish. I say the burden of proof is on the school is to prove she had sex.

Isn't the church against artificial insemination? I could've sworn I read somewhere that they were.


/they are against anything but the woman on the bottom...with her whore mouth shut, a vehicle to dump her husbands cum into. So yes, they are pretty much against artificial insemination, or anything else that would involve the woman having any fun before marriage, including the horrible sinful, and fantastially erotic female masturbation. That would be enjoyable to the woman...and..we cant have that without the man present. Then it's ok. So, stop touching yourself while youre not married ladies, your hand will get stuck like that, furry palms, your eyes will cross, blah blah blah.

/you get the point.
2014-02-05 01:18:49 PM  
1 votes:
Maybe someone should text Super Pope and let him know what's going on. I bet he'd take care of it likity-split.
2014-02-05 01:10:31 PM  
1 votes:
She would have kept her job if she had been caught molesting a child.
2014-02-05 01:09:06 PM  
1 votes:
Part of the job is living the rules. Luckily, teacher jobs are available everywhere lately.
2014-02-05 12:55:42 PM  
1 votes:

scottydoesntknow: nmrsnr: Virgin pregnancies are actually possible naturally, in rare circumstance, and with today's fertilization technology, is fairly simple (if somewhat expensive) to accomplish. I say the burden of proof is on the school is to prove she had sex.

Isn't the church against artificial insemination? I could've sworn I read somewhere that they were.


Yup.  Mostly because most IVF procedures involve creating multiple embryos with the intent of bringing just one to term,because abortion,  or using a third parties sperm an egg, because adultery.  However double checking my answer with the googles I discover they t apparently they aren't even happy with external fertilization of a woman's egg with her band's sperm because "the dignity of life"?  which I think is code for "because it's icky"
2014-02-05 12:42:05 PM  
1 votes:

scottydoesntknow: Isn't the church against artificial insemination? I could've sworn I read somewhere that they were.


Yes and no.

They're not against artificial insemination per se but because it requires a large number of eggs to be fertilized, but only one actually growing to viability, they consider the destruction of the unimplanted zygotes to be a form of abortion.
2014-02-05 12:34:37 PM  
1 votes:

nmrsnr: Virgin pregnancies are actually possible naturally, in rare circumstance, and with today's fertilization technology, is fairly simple (if somewhat expensive) to accomplish. I say the burden of proof is on the school is to prove she had sex.


Isn't the church against artificial insemination? I could've sworn I read somewhere that they were.
2014-02-05 12:33:21 PM  
1 votes:

Weaver95: It's rather mean spirited IMHO.


What do you expect.  It's not as if the central focus of their religion is a guy who preached about kindness.
2014-02-05 12:32:49 PM  
1 votes:
Virgin pregnancies are actually possible naturally, in rare circumstance, and with today's fertilization technology, is fairly simple (if somewhat expensive) to accomplish. I say the burden of proof is on the school is to prove she had sex.
2014-02-05 12:22:35 PM  
1 votes:
I'm pretty sure she wasn't a single mother.  Though if porn had existed back then, apparently she and Joseph could've starred in one of those "cuckold" videos.
 
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