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(Yahoo)   Unmarried Catholic school teacher fired after she becomes pregnant. Wait, didn't an an unwed single mother feature rather prominently in the '"origin story" of this religion??   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 169
    More: Fail, teacher fired, Montana Standard, Roman Catholic theology, teachers  
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5852 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Feb 2014 at 1:06 PM (41 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-02-05 02:19:29 PM  

Nabb1: BMFPitt: Well maybe that will teach her an important lesson about Catholicism.

Or, at the very least, an important lesson about the enforcement of employment contracts and what happens when you do something that gives the employer specific grounds to terminate you.


Well I would give it a few days to see if there's a followup where she tries to sue before I determine whether she has learned that lesson.
 
2014-02-05 02:21:33 PM  
Guys I know you all think you are making great points about christian forgiveness but this woman doesn't need to be forgiven for a damn thing.  What goes into and comes out of her vagina is her own damn business.  It's illegal to fire an employee for getting knocked up, side stepping it with some code of conduct nonsense is bullshiat.
 
2014-02-05 02:23:17 PM  

BMFPitt: Nabb1: BMFPitt: Well maybe that will teach her an important lesson about Catholicism.

Or, at the very least, an important lesson about the enforcement of employment contracts and what happens when you do something that gives the employer specific grounds to terminate you.

Well I would give it a few days to see if there's a followup where she tries to sue before I determine whether she has learned that lesson.


Doubtful that she'll try. In most places, public schools pay more than private, anyway, so unless there is some other factor making her unemployable, wrongful termination isn't going to be worth much. Usually teachers in these situations end up teaching somewhere else, and I think many courts have upheld these agreements.
 
2014-02-05 02:25:25 PM  

serpent_sky: clear_prop: I went to a Catholic HS. Girls that got pregnant were kicked out. Girls that had an abortion were allowed to stay.

And the guys who knocked all of them up were allowed to stay.


Of course they were.

The worst was one day the morning announcements told us to 'pray for SomeJock who was injured in a car accident'.  What they didn't say is he was driving drunk and had killed his GF.  They didn't even have the decency to say 'pray for her soul'.

/recovering Catholic
 
2014-02-05 02:25:39 PM  

MaritimeGirl: What would they have said had she been raped and claimed she wouldn't get an abortion because God wouldn't approve?


Hmmm... that's honestly a good question, since this is a church that excommunicated a doctor for performing an abortion on a nine-year-old who was raped and became pregnant....
 
2014-02-05 02:25:40 PM  
Quite the bummer for women that they have a physical characteristic that could expose their pre-marital sexual relations unlike some people of certain other sex.

Wouldn't it be funny if men grew a big-ass farking wart in between their eyes when some broad they farked got pregnant that lasted as long as the pregnancy. LULZ!
 
2014-02-05 02:27:21 PM  

Nabb1: BMFPitt: Nabb1: BMFPitt: Well maybe that will teach her an important lesson about Catholicism.

Or, at the very least, an important lesson about the enforcement of employment contracts and what happens when you do something that gives the employer specific grounds to terminate you.

Well I would give it a few days to see if there's a followup where she tries to sue before I determine whether she has learned that lesson.

Doubtful that she'll try. In most places, public schools pay more than private, anyway, so unless there is some other factor making her unemployable, wrongful termination isn't going to be worth much. Usually teachers in these situations end up teaching somewhere else, and I think many courts have upheld these agreements.


I'm not saying she has a case, just that I find it very likely that she would try. This is America, after all.
 
2014-02-05 02:28:46 PM  

twistedmetal: Meh, she knew the rules.


Yea, she should have gotten an abortion to cover it up.

wait... what?
 
2014-02-05 02:30:45 PM  

scottydoesntknow: Weaver95: Well, it is their club house so they get to set the rules. Is it kinda bullshiat? Maybe. But thems the rules if your boss is a religious organization. Firing a pregnant woman isn't a very kind thing to do tho. It's rather mean spirited IMHO.

Yea, but she's a whore, and Jesus didn't hang out with no whores.

Wait, what? He did? Well shiat!


Not to mention he waited for the Apostles to be full-grown men before he had sex with them.
 
2014-02-05 02:31:00 PM  

theknuckler_33: twistedmetal: Meh, she knew the rules.

Yea, she should have gotten an abortion to cover it up.

wait... what?


I guess a "ctrl+f 'abortion' " would have been a useful thing to do before posting, eh?
 
gja [TotalFark]
2014-02-05 02:33:36 PM  

serpent_sky: Magorn: To say nothing of the fact that a Religion which claims to be pro-life, and operates "Crisis Pregnancy Centers" designed to help supportguilt women who chose to haveinto having a child when it is a financial hardship for them to do so, is being, at best counter-productive when they destroy the livelihood of a mother to be. and perhaps sending a message to other people in her situation that they should abort a baby before the pregnancy is known to avoid a similar fate

FTFY.
Otherwise, I agree 100%. But is anyone surprised by hypocritical behavior from them?


Who, at this point, is surprised with hypocrisy in the Roman Catholic church. Really?
There is a guy who seems to want the job of cleaning up some of this crap, but that effort is a works-in-progress and we need to wait and see if he is willing to go the long yard on this.
 
2014-02-05 02:38:28 PM  
Like most origin stories, they can be tweaked a bit according to the audience.
 
2014-02-05 02:40:05 PM  
a) Can they? - Yes
b) Should they? - No

This is a job for SuperPope!
 
2014-02-05 02:40:49 PM  
csb

I went to 12 years of Catholic school. My brother too. When we were young my parents used to use the 'threat' of sending us to public school (cue scary music) to keep us in line and dammit if it didn't farking work. My sister was born 9 years after me (my brother is nearly 2 years old than me), by the time she was in 6th-7th grade, she was begging my parents to let her go to our local public school district. And they allowed it. I guess by then, they realized saving that money was worth it? Or maybe they relented to 'their little girl'? Who knows, but my sister is a goddamn genius. She participated in the drama club which was 10X better than at our Catholic high school, went to college for film production, and has had a great career in the film/TV industry. You can see her IMDB page here.

The point? Unless you live in a terrible school district, I don't understand why anyone sends their kids to Catholic school. Save the money, send them to public school and CCD (assuming their religious education is so important). I kick myself to this day for not remaining bad enough to cause my parents to actually send me to the public school. I might not have had such a problem dealing with girls for as long as I did. Thanks a lot for sending me to an all-boys school! fark!

Still love my parents, they're really cool, srsly.

/csb
 
2014-02-05 02:41:33 PM  

serpent_sky: Hmmm... that's honestly a good question, since this is a church that excommunicated a doctor for performing an abortion on a nine-year-old who was raped and became pregnant....


This is a church that let a non-Catholic, non-citizen patient who was only in the country on business die in agony rather than terminate her non-viable pregnancy.
 
2014-02-05 02:43:22 PM  

sunderland56: cwolf20: But a man while still a virgin can donate sperm.

Wouldn't that violate the rule against masturbation?



Who knows.
 
2014-02-05 02:49:25 PM  
Am I the only person to notice the typo in the headline?
 
2014-02-05 02:53:49 PM  
I'm glad the school was thinking of the children. Role models are very important for their moral development.
 
2014-02-05 03:00:22 PM  
I am reminded of a time in college, at Notre Dame.  I was in the NROTC unit there.  One of the female midshipmen got pregnant - she wasn't married.  The NROTC unit began processing her discharge paperwork, as you aren't allowed to be a pregnant midshipman.

Father Hesburgh (yeah, that one) went to bat for her, and said that since it was against Catholic teaching for her to have an abortion (which would have allowed her to keep her scholarship with the Navy though), he would ask ND to reconsider its relationship with the Navy, since that was the position they were putting the girl in - abortion and continue her education, or stay pregnant and be forced out of the NROTC program.

She got to keep her baby and stay in the Navy.

Where is that logic and compassion with the Church now?
 
2014-02-05 03:01:38 PM  
Jesus has two dads and Joseph certainly got screwed while Mary did not.
 
2014-02-05 03:03:28 PM  

Egoy3k: It's illegal to fire an employee for getting knocked up, side stepping it with some code of conduct nonsense is bullshiat.


For most any employer, yes. However, a recent supreme court decision says otherwise. Religious organizations get to determine which of their positions are considered ecumenical.

The case was Hosanna-Tabor Evangelical Lutheran Church and School v. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission

They said that when fascism came to the US it would be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross.
 
2014-02-05 03:04:05 PM  
Remember folks,  religious christian types oppose abortion and birth control because God and stuff, NOT because they want to punish women for having sex.
 
2014-02-05 03:05:32 PM  

theknuckler_33: I went to 12 years of Catholic school. My brother too. When we were young my parents used to use the 'threat' of sending us to public school (cue scary music) to keep us in line and dammit if it didn't farking work. My sister was born 9 years after me (my brother is nearly 2 years old than me), by the time she was in 6th-7th grade, she was begging my parents to let her go to our local public school district. And they allowed it. I guess by then, they realized saving that money was worth it? Or maybe they relented to 'their little girl'? Who knows, but my sister is a goddamn genius. She participated in the drama club which was 10X better than at our Catholic high school, went to college for film production, and has had a great career in the film/TV industry. You can see her IMDB page here.


I begged and begged and begged, when 8th grade came, to be allowed to go to public high school.  I recall my mother *almost* relented and then at the last minute, my parents insisted I go to Catholic high school. And I ended up in an all girls school (in an attempt to help me get along with girls better - instead, I learned to loathe women more than I did and stopped speaking to just about anyone for a couple of years.)

I truly believe i'd be a lot more normal looking and a far more normal person if I'd gone to public school.  I also think I'd be a hell of a lot more intelligent and probably would have taken a totally different path than I did for college (which was go to the most liberal liberal arts college ever, for writing, when i really should have gone to state university cheap and then paid for law school.)
 
2014-02-05 03:06:20 PM  

Misch: Egoy3k: It's illegal to fire an employee for getting knocked up, side stepping it with some code of conduct nonsense is bullshiat.

For most any employer, yes. However, a recent supreme court decision says otherwise. Religious organizations get to determine which of their positions are considered ecumenical.

The case was Hosanna-Tabor Evangelical Lutheran Church and School v. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission

They said that when fascism came to the US it would be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross.



This is why catholic schools shouldn't be exempt from paying taxes, and sure as hell shouldn't be getting public funds.  They want to get public money and tax benefits while picking and choosing which laws they want to ignore.
 
2014-02-05 03:09:48 PM  
DrunkWithImpotence:   ...was the pregnancy planned or accidental?  What if baby is an oopsie?  Adults sometimes make mistakes.  In that case, the school could use the whole thing as a teaching moment.


It's not about the pregnancy; it's about the sexing-while-female which lead to it.  She was fired because her pregnancy makes it visibly obvious that she's had unauthorized sex without the express written consent of the National Fertility League©.
 
2014-02-05 03:14:55 PM  

clear_prop: serpent_sky: clear_prop: I went to a Catholic HS. Girls that got pregnant were kicked out. Girls that had an abortion were allowed to stay.

And the guys who knocked all of them up were allowed to stay.

Of course they were.

The worst was one day the morning announcements told us to 'pray for SomeJock who was injured in a car accident'.  What they didn't say is he was driving drunk and had killed his GF.  They didn't even have the decency to say 'pray for her soul'.

/recovering Catholic


Sad button is needed. :(

Was said gf not Catholic?
 
2014-02-05 03:15:18 PM  
Person willfully violates terms of employment contract and gets fired.

Happens all the time folks, her way of violating the contract really isn't the issue.
 
2014-02-05 03:15:47 PM  

serpent_sky: theknuckler_33: I went to 12 years of Catholic school. My brother too. When we were young my parents used to use the 'threat' of sending us to public school (cue scary music) to keep us in line and dammit if it didn't farking work. My sister was born 9 years after me (my brother is nearly 2 years old than me), by the time she was in 6th-7th grade, she was begging my parents to let her go to our local public school district. And they allowed it. I guess by then, they realized saving that money was worth it? Or maybe they relented to 'their little girl'? Who knows, but my sister is a goddamn genius. She participated in the drama club which was 10X better than at our Catholic high school, went to college for film production, and has had a great career in the film/TV industry. You can see her IMDB page here.

I begged and begged and begged, when 8th grade came, to be allowed to go to public high school.  I recall my mother *almost* relented and then at the last minute, my parents insisted I go to Catholic high school. And I ended up in an all girls school (in an attempt to help me get along with girls better - instead, I learned to loathe women more than I did and stopped speaking to just about anyone for a couple of years.)

I truly believe i'd be a lot more normal looking and a far more normal person if I'd gone to public school.  I also think I'd be a hell of a lot more intelligent and probably would have taken a totally different path than I did for college (which was go to the most liberal liberal arts college ever, for writing, when i really should have gone to state university cheap and then paid for law school.)


*hugs*
 
2014-02-05 03:16:22 PM  

theknuckler_33: Quite the bummer for women that they have a physical characteristic that could expose their pre-marital sexual relations unlike some people of certain other sex.

Wouldn't it be funny if men grew a big-ass farking wart in between their eyes when some broad they farked got pregnant that lasted as long as the pregnancy. LULZ!


Even funnier, you'd see all these priests with warts between their eyes...

/I have a Slimer green F on my shirt, thank you very much.
 
2014-02-05 03:23:26 PM  

tlars699: theknuckler_33: Quite the bummer for women that they have a physical characteristic that could expose their pre-marital sexual relations unlike some people of certain other sex.

Wouldn't it be funny if men grew a big-ass farking wart in between their eyes when some broad they farked got pregnant that lasted as long as the pregnancy. LULZ!

Even funnier, you'd see all these priests with warts between their eyes...


That's silly. Pre-pubescent boys can't get pregnant.
 
2014-02-05 03:23:30 PM  

Jeteupthemiddle: All catholic school teachers are well aware of the morality clause in their contracts before they sign it.

And probably nearly all teachers break that clause.  If their pastors find out, then the consequences are on them.


Put on his Extreme Lawyer hat: Unless the school is taking active steps to verify that men are not having sex as well (say 24-hour video surveillance or  chastity belts that work like ankle monitors) It seems that this particular morality clause  only affects women, and is, therefore a "facially neutral policy with a disparate impact on a protected class", and as such may be grounds for a Title VII -based lawsuit for employment discrimination
 
2014-02-05 03:32:11 PM  
At this point, Religious People are sort of like the people who believe in Global Warming.  This article only makes me feel sorry for all the idiots it talks about.
 
2014-02-05 03:34:42 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: But(t) raping boys is a-ok. What a joke.


Nothing in their contract about that.
 
2014-02-05 03:35:40 PM  

DoctorWhat: What do you expect at a school named Butt Central?


Going to Butt Central is exactly what you do if  you don't want to get a chick pregnant
 
2014-02-05 03:36:54 PM  

Uisce Beatha: I am reminded of a time in college, at Notre Dame.  I was in the NROTC unit there.  One of the female midshipmen got pregnant - she wasn't married.  The NROTC unit began processing her discharge paperwork, as you aren't allowed to be a pregnant midshipman.

Father Hesburgh (yeah, that one) went to bat for her, and said that since it was against Catholic teaching for her to have an abortion (which would have allowed her to keep her scholarship with the Navy though), he would ask ND to reconsider its relationship with the Navy, since that was the position they were putting the girl in - abortion and continue her education, or stay pregnant and be forced out of the NROTC program.

She got to keep her baby and stay in the Navy.

Where is that logic and compassion with the Church now?


That appears to actually be in line with Catholic teachings - encourage life, don't encourage people to commit greater sins to hide smaller ones.
Happily, an environment in which pregnant women are shown forgiveness and compassion isn't just useful if you're Catholic.

(I'm a pro-choice atheist, for disclaimer purposes)
 
2014-02-05 03:40:01 PM  
Someone get in touch with Pope Francis, he'd put this right. When he was a Cardinal he baptized the children of unwed mothers without thinking twice, as Pope he's baptized the child of an unwed couple like they were any other parents bringing a child to be baptized. I don't really think he'd exactly care for any excuses the school might try to offer.
 
2014-02-05 03:46:23 PM  
Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't ALL schools have you sign a morality claused contract?

Not that "pregnancy" is a contract breaker in public schools, because lawsuit, but they still have clauses that you're supposed to be a good role model, right?

Equal Opportunity Employer, the Catholic Church is not.
 
2014-02-05 03:48:15 PM  

JavaGuy: ciberido: JavaGuy: The Fifth Dentist: She should claim " immaculate conception " and make the church/school prove that to be impossible

The phrase "Immaculate Conception" has nothing to do with Mary's pregnancy.

Well, it has SOMETHING to do with it.  But it has more to do with the notion Catholics apparently have that Mary was more than an ordinary woman, a notion with which I think most Protestants vehemently disagree.

Having spent way to many years in Catholic schools, I know exactly what it means.


My condolences.
 
2014-02-05 03:53:54 PM  

Magorn: Put on his Extreme Lawyer hat: Unless the school is taking active steps to verify that men are not having sex as well (say 24-hour video surveillance or chastity belts that work like ankle monitors) It seems that this particular morality clause only affects women, and is, therefore a "facially neutral policy with a disparate impact on a protected class", and as such may be grounds for a Title VII -based lawsuit for employment discrimination


Hell, look at an article we had here last year.  Two unmarried teachers at a Catholic school were dating, the woman got pregnant, they moved in together without getting married, and guess which one got fired?
 
2014-02-05 03:56:23 PM  

Misch: Egoy3k: It's illegal to fire an employee for getting knocked up, side stepping it with some code of conduct nonsense is bullshiat.

For most any employer, yes. However, a recent supreme court decision says otherwise. Religious organizations get to determine which of their positions are considered ecumenical.

The case was Hosanna-Tabor Evangelical Lutheran Church and School v. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission

They said that when fascism came to the US it would be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross.


True but the Catholic church would be in a world of dogmatic hurt if they tried to claim a teacher, and a female one at that was in an "ecumenical" position.   They have a whole Sacrament called "Holy Orders" which confers that status (one for priests and a different one for monks and Nuns, and yet a third for "Third Order" lay ordained (complicated-mostly a Franciscan thing)
 
2014-02-05 03:57:42 PM  

Magorn: Jeteupthemiddle: All catholic school teachers are well aware of the morality clause in their contracts before they sign it.

And probably nearly all teachers break that clause.  If their pastors find out, then the consequences are on them.

Put on his Extreme Lawyer hat: Unless the school is taking active steps to verify that men are not having sex as well (say 24-hour video surveillance or  chastity belts that work like ankle monitors) It seems that this particular morality clause  only affects women, and is, therefore a "facially neutral policy with a disparate impact on a protected class", and as such may be grounds for a Title VII -based lawsuit for employment discrimination


Well if you actually are a lawyer, you probably could have a field day with the morality clause.  It is a very vague "moral responsibility" thing.  There are no specifics.  In this particular case it is being used against premarital pregnancy, and you are right, it likely it would not/could not be used against men; however, it is the same clause that would fire someone for "living in sin."

Now, at my school, a number of teachers have or currently do live with a significant other without being married.  The people in charge do know this, but I would be shocked if the pastor knows this.
 
2014-02-05 03:57:53 PM  

Weaver95: Firing a pregnant woman isn't a very kind thing to do tho. It's rather mean spirited IMHO.


Isn't it also super illegal??!?! I'm pretty sure it is in Canada.
 
2014-02-05 03:58:32 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: Magorn: Put on his Extreme Lawyer hat: Unless the school is taking active steps to verify that men are not having sex as well (say 24-hour video surveillance or chastity belts that work like ankle monitors) It seems that this particular morality clause only affects women, and is, therefore a "facially neutral policy with a disparate impact on a protected class", and as such may be grounds for a Title VII -based lawsuit for employment discrimination

Hell, look at an article we had here last year.  Two unmarried teachers at a Catholic school were dating, the woman got pregnant, they moved in together without getting married, and guess which one got fired?


Please provide linkies?
 
2014-02-05 04:02:17 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: Magorn: Put on his Extreme Lawyer hat: Unless the school is taking active steps to verify that men are not having sex as well (say 24-hour video surveillance or chastity belts that work like ankle monitors) It seems that this particular morality clause only affects women, and is, therefore a "facially neutral policy with a disparate impact on a protected class", and as such may be grounds for a Title VII -based lawsuit for employment discrimination

Hell, look at an article we had here last year.  Two unmarried teachers at a Catholic school were dating, the woman got pregnant, they moved in together without getting married, and guess which one got fired?



 I looked it up. She got fired, and then her mate was hired for her position.
 
2014-02-05 04:02:55 PM  

That Guy Jeff: If you don't want to be subject to ridiculous religious rules, don't VOLUNTARILY make yourself subject to ridiculous religious rules. It's that simple.


I suppose it never occurred to you how few qualified teachers get teaching jobs. She was probably just happy to take whatever job she could get.
 
2014-02-05 04:04:51 PM  

The Flexecutioner: meh, she should have agreed to getting farked in the rectory.  cant get pregnant there.


Threadwin.
 
2014-02-05 04:06:34 PM  

kpaxoid: Bit'O'Gristle: rocketpants: Because having an unemployed single mother is what's best for the child.

/Funny you say that...there was a story years ago about a couple that were in "good standing" whatever that means, i guess that means "good mindless sheep" with the church, and they had a little girl.  Anyway, turns out the girl was allergic to whatever the wafer was made of (rice? wheat?) that you have to eat during communion.  She could have a horrible reaction to it, and die.  Anyway, they asked their priest if he could substitute something else, as it was just a symbol of "the body of christ" and not actually crists's flesh, that would be odd, and sick.  Anyway, the priest sent this request all the way up the derp food chain, and the family was told, "NO, we cannot do this".

So, in essence, since she couldn't take communion, she was hell bound  by the churches rules, even though she had done nothing wrong, and was only 5 or so years old.  If i remember right, the Baptists took the family in after the family wised up and told the Catholic Church to stick it up their old tan tailpipe.   You farkers can look up the story if you wish, was a long time ago, but that is what i remember of it.

The girl was 8 years old.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/5762478/#.UvKDefvva8E


Odd because I've attended masses where a loaf of store-bought Italian bread, Home-baked rolls, and once, in extremis, a Saltine Cracker, was consecrated.  READ TFA it makes a bit more sense, but not sure why the girl just doesn't take a sip of the communion wine instead, in Catholic belief there ain't any difference between the two "species" of Communion and the amount of wine you ingest that way ain't enough to harm anyone.  (know alcoholic priests who can nonetheless consume communion wine)
 
2014-02-05 04:06:35 PM  
As an unwed, pregnant victim of much Catholic shame from my family, I'm getting a kick...

No, really.
 
2014-02-05 04:08:16 PM  
theknuckler_33:

The point? Unless you live in a terrible school district, I don't understand why anyone sends their kids to Catholic school. Save the money, send them to public school and CCD (assuming their religious education is so important). I kick myself to this day for not remaining bad enough to cause my parents to actually send me to the public school. I might not have had such a problem dealing with girls for as long as I did. Thanks a lot for sending me to an all-boys school! fark!


Well, at least where I am, you may send your kids to Catholic school if you don't want your kids to have a "drill and kill" teaching-to-the-test curriculum.  While I follow the same state common core standards, I do not have any standardized tests to worry about, so I can teach the curriculum any way I care to, in any order, and for however long I feel I need to to make sure they know the information.

Now we do have standardized testing in 4th, 6th, and 8th grades (instead of all grades 3-8), and we do want our students to do well on them, but we don't stop teaching for months at a time just so they can learn how to take a test.

For the record, I teach in a Catholic school because the public schools had/have a hiring freeze when I graduated college.  I'm not religious at all, but I do happen to love my school.
 
2014-02-05 04:12:15 PM  
Again?

Talk about an evergreen story that keeps popping up here.  What's next--Israel and the Arabs are arguing again?  It's cold in Minnesota this time of year?

It's a Catholic school--what's the big surprise?  You're not supposed to have kids outside of marriage in general, why would it make even FARK's low standards of news that it's REALLY not right when affiliated with a religious institution?
 
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