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(International Business Times)   The head of the Mormon church is to appear before court on charges of fraud for basically making people believe in religion   (ibtimes.co.uk) divider line 151
    More: Interesting, Mormon Church, City of Westminster Magistrates' Court, AUB, Israelites, Book of Mormon  
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9488 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Feb 2014 at 9:54 AM (29 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-02-05 09:04:54 AM
Spiritual terrorism.
 
2014-02-05 09:31:18 AM
Yeah good luck.
 
2014-02-05 09:47:21 AM
In fact, drag them all in. All the heads of churches. Tell them prove it or STFU.
And you're being taxed, now, assholes.
Lying sacks.
 
2014-02-05 09:49:00 AM
When the mob demands protection money from someone we call it racketeering.

When a church demands protection money from someone we call it religion.
 
2014-02-05 09:59:31 AM
Here is the problem with starting a new religion based on artifacts you claim to have seen yourself. Eventually someone will demand to see these artifacts.
 
2014-02-05 10:00:55 AM

Diogenes: When the mob demands protection money from someone we call it racketeering.

When a church demands protection money from someone we call it religion.


Yeah, but the church threatens imaginary parts of you with imaginary punishments. The mob will actually hurt you.

If you give the former real money for protection from imaginary things, then you're a sucker.
 
2014-02-05 10:02:45 AM
by all means, put on your sanctimonious panties and get them as tightly wadded as you like, but this goes nowhere.
 
2014-02-05 10:05:10 AM
If you want to give 10% of your income to a flim flam artist, you'd think we'd at least tax the flim flam artist.
 
2014-02-05 10:05:43 AM

Diogenes: When the mob demands protection money from someone we call it racketeering.

When a church demands protection money from someone we call it religion.


When the government demands taxes to pay for police services, and arrests you if you don't pay them, it's called life.
 
2014-02-05 10:08:25 AM

flucto: by all means, put on your sanctimonious panties and get them as tightly wadded as you like, but this goes nowhere.


The fact that it's gone this far is bad enough.
 
2014-02-05 10:08:32 AM
The UK, which has an official Christian church, is hearing a case in which someone is complaining that religion is untrue?

as well as a claim that all humans alive today are descended from "just two people (Adam and Eve) who lived approximately 6,000 years ago".

If a court finds that this claim is untrue, how would that affect other Abrahamic religious organizations that have presence in the UK?
 
2014-02-05 10:12:43 AM

van1ty: Diogenes: When the mob demands protection money from someone we call it racketeering.

When a church demands protection money from someone we call it religion.

When the government demands taxes to pay for police services, and arrests you if you don't pay them, it's called life.


Difference being the police protect you from threats they don't deliberately create.
 
2014-02-05 10:13:28 AM
I Believe; that the Lord, God, created the universe 
I Believe; that He sent His only Son to die for my sins 
And I Believe; that ancient Jews built boats and sailed to America 

I Believe; that God has a plan for all of us 
I Believe; that plan involves me getting my own planet 
And I Believe; that the current President of The Church, Thomas Modson, speaks directly to God 

I Believe; that Satan has a hold of you 
I Believe; that the Lord, God, has sent me here 
And I Believe; that in 1978 God changed his mind about black people! 
 
2014-02-05 10:15:20 AM
He should take a note from this guy

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2014-02-05 10:16:48 AM
The head of the Mormon church is to appear before court on charges of fraud for basically making people believe in religion Mormonism

FTFY. The two are different.
 
2014-02-05 10:17:05 AM
I didn't know the Anglican Church still held enough power to go after competitors like this.
 
2014-02-05 10:19:24 AM
So much trouble would have been avoided if Jesus had just taken a few moments to address stupid.
 
2014-02-05 10:20:47 AM

Diogenes: van1ty: Diogenes: When the mob demands protection money from someone we call it racketeering.

When a church demands protection money from someone we call it religion.

When the government demands taxes to pay for police services, and arrests you if you don't pay them, it's called life.

Difference being the police protect you from threats they don't deliberately create.


Thats a stretch because youre asserting the church knows its beliefs on spirituality to be false
 
2014-02-05 10:21:08 AM
Oh look. Another religion bashing thread on Fark. How original.
 
2014-02-05 10:22:09 AM
The LDS money stream is pretty astounding.  No other church gets anything close to 10% reliably. Virtually none of that is spent locally.  A common US ward will be bringing in maybe $500k a year in tithes, all of which they send to SLC. The ward will get maybe $20k of that sent back (to pay the electric bill and feed the copier). The bishop (= minister in other churches) isn't paid. They don't even usually pay a janitor (people are volunteered).  The larger church did pay for building the meetinghouse.

The temples aren't that expensive. The missionaries aren't that expensive either (they're supposed to pay for their own flights and food).  Their charity work is average at best (you're more likely to run into a Mennonite relief group in a disaster than a Mormon, at 1/100th the budget).

But, Desert Industries owns hundreds of for-profit shopping centers and millions of acres of for-profit farm/ranchland, so that's nice.
 
2014-02-05 10:22:36 AM
Wait a second, in the UK you can sue a religion based on its historical accuracy?
 
2014-02-05 10:23:17 AM
Is this basically like the US, where anyone can sue anyone for anything?

All the major religions are founded on laughably untrue claims, but I don't think those can or should be settled in a civil or criminal trial.
 
2014-02-05 10:26:52 AM

bigdanc: Diogenes: van1ty: Diogenes: When the mob demands protection money from someone we call it racketeering.

When a church demands protection money from someone we call it religion.

When the government demands taxes to pay for police services, and arrests you if you don't pay them, it's called life.

Difference being the police protect you from threats they don't deliberately create.

Thats a stretch because youre asserting the church knows its beliefs on spirituality to be false


You can believe what you want to or feel you must believe.

I'm not a believer.  So requiring a tithe to me seems like a protection racket.  And LDS is particularly egregious because they really demand it.

You can't even step foot in the local LDS temple until you release a financial statement to the church.
 
2014-02-05 10:28:16 AM

rnatalie: I Believe; that the Lord, God, created the universe 
I Believe; that He sent His only Son to die for my sins 
And I Believe; that ancient Jews built boats and sailed to America 

I Believe; that God has a plan for all of us 
I Believe; that plan involves me getting my own planet 
And I Believe; that the current President of The Church, Thomas Modson, speaks directly to God 

I Believe; that Satan has a hold of you 
I Believe; that the Lord, God, has sent me here 
And I Believe; that in 1978 God changed his mind about black people! 


I love that song. The line about black people one of the best in theplay.

Well besides "I have maggots in my scrotum"
 
2014-02-05 10:28:41 AM
Wonder when they will go against Scilons. I'd love to see David Miscavige on a witness stand... but then again, there are a lot of questions about how they got their tax exempt status, especially after their "Snow White" "operation".

/way too lazy to have links
 
2014-02-05 10:28:47 AM

OccamsWhiskers: Is this basically like the US, where anyone can sue anyone for anything?

All the major religions are founded on laughably untrue claims, but I don't think those can or should be settled in a civil or criminal trial.


But in this story it's not so much the truth or falsity of the spiritual claims, but the money.  You want a nice place in our church?  Pay up.
 
2014-02-05 10:29:27 AM

redmid17: The head of the Mormon church is to appear before court on charges of fraud for basically making people believe in religionMormonism

FTFY. The two are different.


 If they can do this to Mormons they can do it to any religion.
 
2014-02-05 10:30:22 AM

rnatalie: And I Believe; that in 1978 God changed his mind about black people!


There seems to be a recent campaign by the Mormon church where they are addressing these "issues".  Basically they are now saying that Brigham Young was a racist dick (because everyone was a racist dick back then) and that the teachings on blacks were his personal views and not those of God or the church.

It's really convenient when you can, after the fact, pick and choose from the countless statements your prophets made  were their personal opinion and which ones where they were God's Personal Mouthpiece.  Joseph Smith tells people that Quakers live on the moon?  He was speaking as a man.  No coffee?  That's from God.  Brigham Young says that the punishment for interracial relationships is death on the spot?  His "opinion".  Every man should have a handful of wives?  God's idea (but for a limited time only).

When you closely look at Mormonism with its wacky secret handshakes and magic underwear, and it's highly improbable story of ancient Jews living in America with horses and steel (which nobody can find traces of now) and then turn that same critical lens onto more established and accepted religions you begin to see that they are all suspect.  It's just that, compared to the Mormon upstarts, the others have a 2000-year old veneer of respectability covering their blatant flaws.
 
2014-02-05 10:34:18 AM
Kozaru

All religions do that. Xianity is all about convenience and picking the parts you want to believe in.
 
2014-02-05 10:34:23 AM

genner: redmid17: The head of the Mormon church is to appear before court on charges of fraud for basically making people believe in religionMormonism

FTFY. The two are different.

 If they can do this to Mormons they can do it to any religion.


They can try.
 
2014-02-05 10:34:51 AM
This is stupid but at least I can now move forward with my lawsuits against the weather man, the history channel, and Tyler Perry.
 
2014-02-05 10:35:57 AM
Amen Subby
 
2014-02-05 10:36:22 AM

van1ty: Diogenes: When the mob demands protection money from someone we call it racketeering.

When a church demands protection money from someone we call it religion.

When the government demands taxes to pay for police services, and arrests you if you don't pay them, it's called life.


I wasn't aware that the church and the mob provided any kind of services to the public.
 
2014-02-05 10:37:16 AM

CleanAndPure: Kozaru

All religions do that. Xianity is all about convenience and picking the parts you want to believe in.


Yes all religion is made up BS, but Mormonism being a new religion whose founding occurred during a recent period when we have accurate historical records just makes it all the more laughable.
 
2014-02-05 10:37:57 AM

Pokey.Clyde: Oh look. Another religion bashing thread on Fark. How original.


It's nice to take a break from bashing furries, transgender kids, the GOP, the DNC, Canada, America, Russia, Japanese culture, gamers, Justin Beiber, television, non television watchers, gays, straights, McDonalds, Olive Garden, hipsters, rednecks, white people, black people, gun owners, gun grabbers, hunters, PETA, nuclear power, coal power, natural gas, wind turbines, anti-vaxxers, etc etc etc and come back to the classics every so often.
 
2014-02-05 10:40:50 AM
The mention of The Book of Mormon at the end seemed a bit odd.
Almost like tacking on a reference to Life of Brian on an article about the Vatican sex abuse scandal.
 
2014-02-05 10:41:26 AM

Kozaru: rnatalie: And I Believe; that in 1978 God changed his mind about black people!

There seems to be a recent campaign by the Mormon church where they are addressing these "issues".  Basically they are now saying that Brigham Young was a racist dick (because everyone was a racist dick back then) and that the teachings on blacks were his personal views and not those of God or the church.

It's really convenient when you can, after the fact, pick and choose from the countless statements your prophets made  were their personal opinion and which ones where they were God's Personal Mouthpiece.  Joseph Smith tells people that Quakers live on the moon?  He was speaking as a man.  No coffee?  That's from God.  Brigham Young says that the punishment for interracial relationships is death on the spot?  His "opinion".  Every man should have a handful of wives?  God's idea (but for a limited time only).

When you closely look at Mormonism with its wacky secret handshakes and magic underwear, and it's highly improbable story of ancient Jews living in America with horses and steel (which nobody can find traces of now) and then turn that same critical lens onto more established and accepted religions you begin to see that they are all suspect.  It's just that, compared to the Mormon upstarts, the others have a 2000-year old veneer of respectability covering their blatant flaws.


I grew up in a Mormon family and escaped as soon as I was old enough to leave the house.  I still talk to some of my family though.
According to my sister in law the church is apparently going through some of the same political pressure regarding gay couples and the eventual legalization of gay marriage throughout the US and rest of the world.  Did you know you can be a gay member of the church as long as you remain celibate?  Oh and give your required 10 percent tithe.  I did the biggest quizzical dog face when I heard that.

The Mormon church is a business.  A successful one at that.  If political and societal pressure threaten that revenue stream, they will find it convenient to say The Lord revealed that such-and-such is now hunky-dory.

Hell, maybe I should sue the church too for all of the therapy I had to go through to undo the brainwashing.  It's the biggest crock of shiat religion on the face of the Earth.
 
2014-02-05 10:42:10 AM

Marcus Aurelius: If you want to give 10% of your income to a flim flam artist, you'd think we'd at least tax the flim flam artist.





Only 10%. Heck some flim-flam artists ask for more:

obeygiant.com
 
2014-02-05 10:42:12 AM

genner: redmid17: The head of the Mormon church is to appear before court on charges of fraud for basically making people believe in religionMormonism

FTFY. The two are different.

 If they can do this to Mormons they can do it to any religion.


You say that as if it's a bad thing.
 
2014-02-05 10:42:48 AM

markfara: So much trouble would have been avoided if Jesus had just taken a few moments to address stupid.


You never get to be a majority religion by throwing out the stupid. They are your natural market.
 
2014-02-05 10:45:28 AM

Latinwolf: I wasn't aware that the church and the mob provided any kind of services to the public


all those hospitals with 'Saint' in the name - you may want to look up who runs/founded them.
 
2014-02-05 10:47:27 AM

Kozaru: rnatalie: And I Believe; that in 1978 God changed his mind about black people!

There seems to be a recent campaign by the Mormon church where they are addressing these "issues".  Basically they are now saying that Brigham Young was a racist dick (because everyone was a racist dick back then) and that the teachings on blacks were his personal views and not those of God or the church.

It's really convenient when you can, after the fact, pick and choose from the countless statements your prophets made  were their personal opinion and which ones where they were God's Personal Mouthpiece.  Joseph Smith tells people that Quakers live on the moon?  He was speaking as a man.  No coffee?  That's from God.


The JWs are pretty good at that crap, too. Take their past prophecy dates, the ones when Jesus did not, in fact, show up. These are now explained as "gradual revelation", whatever the f*ck that's supposed to mean.

My mother-in-law buys into that crap. A couple of months back, she was all excited about a "new revelation" that had been announced at her Kingdom Hall.

The revelation was twofold. Ready?

1) Only a few (anonymous) people in the upper echelons of the JW hierarchy have the authority to interpret God's will.

2) This is a very great responsibility for them, because they will have to answer to God if they get anything wrong.

As divine revelations go, that one seems pretty lame and self-serving. But then, I'm not "walking in the Truth," so what do I know? (Hell, I'm not even afraid of Smurfs.)
 
2014-02-05 10:47:51 AM

CleanAndPure: Kozaru

All religions do that. Xianity is all about convenience and picking the parts you want to believe in.


You mean like politics?

sanderspoli323.files.wordpress.com


lh3.ggpht.com
 
2014-02-05 10:50:16 AM
I just finished reading Under the Banner of Heaven by Jon Krakauer.  Mormons are strange, but fundamentalist Mormons are downright insane.
 
2014-02-05 10:50:47 AM

HeadLever: Latinwolf: I wasn't aware that the church and the mob provided any kind of services to the public

all those hospitals with 'Saint' in the name - you may want to look up who runs/founded them.


You mean the ones that routinely deny women critical care so that they can stay right with their god?
 
2014-02-05 10:54:13 AM

Diogenes: When the mob demands protection money from someone we call it racketeering.

When a church demands protection money from someone we call it religion.


When the government demands protection money we call it taxes.
 
2014-02-05 10:55:00 AM

CheatCommando: You mean the ones that routinely deny women critical care so that they can stay right with their god?


Not aware of them denying trauma or ER care to any women here.  Source please.  Pretty sure that treating women in critical condition is consistent with their mission statement.

If you are talking about abortion (in which the 'critical' part is pretty laughable), there are plenty of places where one can get this outside of these hospitals.
 
2014-02-05 11:00:04 AM

CheatCommando: You mean the ones that routinely deny women critical care so that they can stay right with their god?


And even if you take abortion issue off the table, you still can't deny that these hospitals do -in fact- provide a service to the public.

Also, ever heard of Habitat for Humanity?  Seems like they provide a service that most will agree with.  Though, I am sure that someone here will start to argue that they discriminate against contractors that need to feed their families and are therefore mean and heartless devils.
 
2014-02-05 11:02:10 AM

HeadLever: CheatCommando: You mean the ones that routinely deny women critical care so that they can stay right with their god?

Not aware of them denying trauma or ER care to any women here.  Source please.  Pretty sure that treating women in critical condition is consistent with their mission statement.

If you are talking about abortion (in which the 'critical' part is pretty laughable), there are plenty of places where one can get this outside of these hospitals.


What was the deal with that Irish hospital that let their patient die because abortion was no-no for them? If your patient is critical, they can't just go to some clinic somewhere, especially if most of those clinics have been shut down by some crazy law-making.

Outside of that, the Catholic Charities' hospitals are great and they do great work.
 
2014-02-05 11:04:54 AM
Interesting,  considering 20% of the House of Lords have to be Bishops in the Church of England,  and the Head of State is also the head of the Church.
 
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