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(Daily Mail)   One in five women say they were "deeply disappointed" by their husband's proposal, with most complaining the diamond ring was too small, the proposal wasn't romantic enough and it wasn't done on bended knee before an audience of all her friends   (dailymail.co.uk) divider line 235
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6722 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Feb 2014 at 8:21 AM (29 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-02-05 12:18:45 PM
I wanted to propose in a way that was different, romantic (in it's own way) and memorable.  I didn't want to look back in regret that I didn't TRY to do something different.  It was in private and I don't think she forgot it.  She might have thought of a different presentation, but she won't forget and she probably smiles about it a little even today - look back with a smile. I think you should know your intended bride well enough to understand what you and she will look back on 40 years down the road and consider accordingly.  20% dissatisfied seems low.
 
2014-02-05 12:23:04 PM
I was happy to be able to surprise my fiance, give her a ring she loved and have some close friends present to see it go down. I don't know if she wanted me to get down on my knee, but I did. There are few things in life that are as rewarding as making someone you love extremely happy.

It's also telling that the only judgmental pricks in this thread are the one that insist you must not do anything traditional or chivalrous because it's emasculating and pathetic. There's not much support for the reverse: that you must buy a big ring and make a grand gesture or you're less than a man.

But most of all, congratulations to everyone that finds someone with whom they can find long-term happiness.
 
Ant
2014-02-05 12:24:53 PM

Fafai: Seeing as how marriage clearly benefits women moreso than men, the dropping to one knee thing has to be done away with. Talk about adding insult to injury. Yeah let me just get down on on my knees and BEG for the privilege to give you everything you want at the expense of my own interests.


WTF? If that's truly how you see the world, don't bother getting married, and make damn sure you never have kids!
 
2014-02-05 12:25:47 PM

ThurmanMerman: Fafai: superlawyergirl: if I found the right guy, it wouldn't matter what he did or how he did it, since I would be getting the better end of the deal (in my mind, HE shouldn't think that, of course).

Exactly what I've been trying to demonstrate in the thread, right from the horse's mouth, thanks. I'm saying we need to stop all this pretending and acting--it isn't helping anyone.


Also, we shouldn't let kids believe in Santa Claus, or bother with fireworks on the fourth of July, and who the heck needs to celebrate birthdays?  Plus, love is just an oxytocin reaction in the brain, and religion only exists to stave off peoples' fear of death.

You must be lots of fun at parties



So long as you know in your heart that the idea that your husband actively wanted to get married as much as you is just as ridiculous as the idea of 'Santa Claus' then I'm happy. Of course you'd want to hold onto that illusion. It's hurting you and all women in the long run however.
 
2014-02-05 12:29:29 PM

Bruce Campbell: I pretended to break up with my girlfriend in my proposal, saying how I'd been doing a lot of thinking lately and that I wasn't sure about the relationship, or its direction, anymore, then told her I didn't want her as a girlfriend anymore.


Her misery entertains you? You're a catch.
 
2014-02-05 12:30:12 PM
superlawyergirl:
varmitydog: The former Kate Middleton's famous blue sapphire oval cut engagement ring was the firm favourite of 11 per centof the women polled

Hey, that's the same type of engagement ring I gave my wife, thirty years ago. I was poor and was going to get a cheap ring and my aunt found out about it and made me take it back, giving me the ring my grandfather gave my grandmother when he came back from WWI. Said it was a love gift and it would bring me luck. I lucked out since my wife considers it a treasured family heirloom. /Nice to see that those royal limey f*ckers have the same good taste as my grandpappy.

Blue sapphires stand for trust, loyalty, and fidelity, which sounds more like what you want in a marriage than just "forever." And, according to an article I read, royals used to use them for engagement/wedding rings all the time, back in the day.

Sounds like you and your grandfather have wonderful taste. Congratulations on finding such a wonderful Lady.


What a nice thing to say, thank you. I actually didn't have a whole lot to do with it, my wife had helped my aunt, mom and sister prepare a Thanksgiving dinner and so charmed my aunt in that one meeting that she decided that this was the woman I should marry, and she took it upon herself to make it happen ("Hey aunt Julie, how are you?" "Have you married that girl yet? What's wrong with you, then?"). When I told her I got a ring she drove 200 miles to see it right away, looked at it like it was a turd and proclaimed "this will never do" which made me feel knee high to a grasshopper.

And my aunt was right, of course. Both about the ring and the woman.
 
Ant
2014-02-05 12:31:10 PM

Fafai: This is exactly what I'm talking about. Good for you, Ant. She was the one chasing after marriage, and so you framed it in a way that you were giving her what she was asking for. I like that.


I didn't mean it to sound as if I didn't want to commit. I did. I was just against the whole idea that you had to have your marriage approved by some authority in order to be officially with someone.

I believe it's completely possible to be committed to one person without a ceremony and a piece of paper from the state. The piece of paper from the state does offer some advantages though.
 
2014-02-05 12:32:17 PM

Epic Fap Session: It's also telling that the only judgmental pricks in this thread are the one that insist you must not do anything traditional or chivalrous because it's emasculating and pathetic. There's not much support for the reverse: that you must buy a big ring and make a grand gesture or you're less than a man.


That's not the reverse. Everything you listed here is all in the same 'women are worth more than men by default' camp.

Ant: WTF? If that's truly how you see the world, don't bother getting married, and make damn sure you never have kids!


How about you not tell me what to do? My marriage and my kid are both awesome.
 
2014-02-05 12:32:33 PM
My husband told me he found a ring on the floor of our apartment.

I was about 7 or 8 months pregnant, laying on the floor - half under the bed, trying to rearange things to fit the child into our 700 sq foot one bedroom apartment.

I was instantly pissed - what do you mean you found a ring on the floor ?! That's not mine! So - what other woman has been in our bedroom?!

Still waited another 2 years to get married. Wasn't that important.

Also - when we told my mother in law, she said .. " I hope your sure. You know what judge Judy says - you can't ask for it back after you give it to her. (Yes - I was sitting there and yes - MIL is a sow)

We had been together over 5 years by the time any of this happened, but still..

I have better memories.
 
Ant
2014-02-05 12:33:00 PM

Fafai: This is exactly what I'm talking about. Good for you, Ant. She was the one chasing after marriage, and so you framed it in a way that you were giving her what she was asking for. I like that.

If I seem bitter in this thread it's just because I hate how it's obviously the woman who wants it more, the woman who has more to gain from marriage


Please. I don't want praise from the likes of you. You have a very farked up view of life and love.
 
2014-02-05 12:36:29 PM

Fafai: superlawyergirl: if I found the right guy, it wouldn't matter what he did or how he did it, since I would be getting the better end of the deal (in my mind, HE shouldn't think that, of course).

Exactly what I've been trying to demonstrate in the thread, right from the horse's mouth, thanks. I'm saying we need to stop all this pretending and acting--it isn't helping anyone.


What would you be, if you didn't have a wife?
If your answer was 'a basement dweller', I have to let you know... she's the one doing you a favor.

If your answer was 'A high and mighty bachelor, with my pick of the ladies," then you should be getting a divorce, not hanging around Fark disparaging women, not the honor of being with them.
If you don't think your wife was worth it, you're probably right. :\
 
2014-02-05 12:37:02 PM

varmitydog: I was poor and was going to get a cheap ring and my aunt found out about it and made me take it back, giving me the ring my grandfather gave my grandmother when he came back from WWI. Said it was a love gift and it would bring me luck. I lucked out since my wife considers it a treasured family heirloom.


My grandmother gave me her engagement ring, which was also my great-grandmother's: a big ass solitaire in a broken platinum setting. Then my mom gave me her ring and I used a few tiny diamonds from that and had a new setting made. My girlfriend liked the ring even more after she found out I didn't pay full retail for the ring. She calls her ring "the family jewels." She's a keeper.
 
Ant
2014-02-05 12:38:31 PM

Fafai: How about you not tell me what to do? My marriage and my kid are both awesome.


Maybe you don't mean to come off this way, but your posts have an odor of MRA about them. If that's not you, I apologize.
 
2014-02-05 12:38:48 PM

Ant: Fafai: This is exactly what I'm talking about. Good for you, Ant. She was the one chasing after marriage, and so you framed it in a way that you were giving her what she was asking for. I like that.

If I seem bitter in this thread it's just because I hate how it's obviously the woman who wants it more, the woman who has more to gain from marriage

Please. I don't want praise from the likes of you. You have a very farked up view of life and love.


Please elaborate why what you quoted is farked up. Are you denying women want marriage more than men? Your own wife wanted it more than you did. Also women do benefit more, as they generally report placing a higher value on safety and security in sexual relationships than do men.
 
2014-02-05 12:41:17 PM

tlars699: Fafai: superlawyergirl: if I found the right guy, it wouldn't matter what he did or how he did it, since I would be getting the better end of the deal (in my mind, HE shouldn't think that, of course).

Exactly what I've been trying to demonstrate in the thread, right from the horse's mouth, thanks. I'm saying we need to stop all this pretending and acting--it isn't helping anyone.

What would you be, if you didn't have a wife?
If your answer was 'a basement dweller', I have to let you know... she's the one doing you a favor.

If your answer was 'A high and mighty bachelor, with my pick of the ladies," then you should be getting a divorce, not hanging around Fark disparaging women, not the honor of being with them.
If you don't think your wife was worth it, you're probably right. :\


I've said several times I'm perfectly happy as a married man. Without my 'wife' I'd still be monogamous with the exact same woman. Nothing really would be different except she might be less happy.
 
2014-02-05 12:43:43 PM
Five in five men say they were "deeply disappointed" by their fiance's BJ, with most complaining the coont was too big, the proposal wasn't financial enough and it wasn't done on bended knee before an audience of all her friends.

If only she would do it on bended knees in front of her friends.... you wish.
 
Ant
2014-02-05 12:44:14 PM

Fafai: Are you denying women want marriage more than men?


Yes, I am.

Your own wife wanted it more than you did. Also women do benefit more, as they generally report placing a higher value on safety and security in sexual relationships than do men.

My wife and I both decided that getting married in the eyes of the state was a benefit to both of us. We were already married in all but name before. We'd been living together for 2 years by then.
 
2014-02-05 12:44:53 PM

ThighsofGlory: Her misery entertains you? You're a catch.


Don'tcha know.  About 2 minutes of misery followed by nothing but elation.  She thought it was as funny as I did.  14 years together so far without anything more than the minor argument that is resolved in an hour or two.

Your lacking in sense of humor probably makes you the penultimate party guest.
 
2014-02-05 12:45:00 PM
Fafai:


So long as you know in your heart that the idea that your husband actively wanted to get married as much as you is just as ridiculous as the idea of 'Santa Claus' then I'm happy. Of course you'd want to hold onto that illusion. It's hurting you and all women in the long run however.


You honestly believe that men don't want to get married as much as women do?  And that women are somehow seen as "more special" than men?  That's baffling and sad.  I can't even poke fun at you anymore.  I would feel too guilty.  Unless you're trolling.  If you are, well done.
 
2014-02-05 12:49:02 PM

Fafai: Epic Fap Session: It's also telling that the only judgmental pricks in this thread are the one that insist you must not do anything traditional or chivalrous because it's emasculating and pathetic. There's not much support for the reverse: that you must buy a big ring and make a grand gesture or you're less than a man.

That's not the reverse. Everything you listed here is all in the same 'women are worth more than men by default' camp.

Ant: WTF? If that's truly how you see the world, don't bother getting married, and make damn sure you never have kids!

How about you not tell me what to do? My marriage and my kid are both awesome.


You go on bended knee because she has the baby making prowess, and that is why you honor her.

You want her to have your babies(talk about commitments)? You need to prove your worth to her. That you can provide a good life for the both of you, because here's a completely useless except socially display of wealth.

And a woman's worth (socially/culturally speaking) is automatically derived from the ring, because that's what he bought her commitment with to make babies with him for life; the ring.

You're right, really, it's utter derived nonsense, and for some reason women are supposed to want it this way, even though they are being bribed to make babies.
You are supposed to go on bended knee, but women are worth more than just a ring.

It does not benefit women more to be married. It just makes their social status a bit higher, whereas men get a baby maker(for life) for really absurdly cheap prices.

Seriously. Look at paying someone to be a surrogate mother. You're not even using her eggs, just her womb, and it's 15,000-25,000 for 9 months.
 
2014-02-05 12:55:17 PM

Bruce Campbell: ThighsofGlory: Her misery entertains you? You're a catch.

Don'tcha know.  About 2 minutes of misery followed by nothing but elation.  She thought it was as funny as I did.  14 years together so far without anything more than the minor argument that is resolved in an hour or two.

Your lacking in sense of humor probably makes you the penultimate party guest.


I doubt I'll miss your sparkling repartee.
 
2014-02-05 12:56:28 PM
She asked me. While we were boning.

I said 'sure' and was able to finish. Still married after 18 years.
 
2014-02-05 12:59:44 PM

Fafai: superlawyergirl: if I found the right guy, it wouldn't matter what he did or how he did it, since I would be getting the better end of the deal (in my mind, HE shouldn't think that, of course).

Exactly what I've been trying to demonstrate in the thread, right from the horse's mouth, thanks. I'm saying we need to stop all this pretending and acting--it isn't helping anyone.


Whether I agree with you or not is irrelevant at this point.  You've become such an annoying douchebag about the whole thing.
 
2014-02-05 01:03:51 PM

Fafai: Ant: Fafai: This is exactly what I'm talking about. Good for you, Ant. She was the one chasing after marriage, and so you framed it in a way that you were giving her what she was asking for. I like that.

If I seem bitter in this thread it's just because I hate how it's obviously the woman who wants it more, the woman who has more to gain from marriage

Please. I don't want praise from the likes of you. You have a very farked up view of life and love.

Please elaborate why what you quoted is farked up. Are you denying women want marriage more than men? Your own wife wanted it more than you did. Also women do benefit more, as they generally report placing a higher value on safety and security in sexual relationships than do men.


Wrong. Women don't want marriage more than men. It's just our culture forces that idea upon them, and they are considered abnormal if they admit to the slightest hint of: "Maybe it's not for me."

In reality "safety and security" mean financial stability. And they want that before they have babies, because who doesn't?
The trend shows that people who are (successfully) married tend to have more financial stability in the long run, which benefits both parties.

As for marriage benefitting women more:

Men usually want the benefit of being able to have babies (someday), and getting laid regularly, with a fair amount of predictability and a minimum of effort. Best way to get that done? Get married.
Married men also benefit more healthwise, and happiness wise over time. They get a free cook, maid, and babysitter too, not to mention the additional income if their wife chooses to work as well...

Married women? Well they're more likely to gain weight, and given the prevalence of eating while stressed, I think you see where I'm going with that one.
Married women are also expected to take on much more of a burden for keeping a job, maintaining the household, and raising the kids, so how in the world does marriage benefit them more?

To have two days to show the world that somebody loves them, and have anyone care about it? To have a rock not even worth a tenth of the value of one pregnancy, that might get you by for a month if you pawn it(if the guy was honest)? Yeaaaah big benefits there. I could retire off of that...


/Okay I'll admit I'm trolling you, but seriously? For the longest time women would get farked over, quite literally, when they signed up to be married. That you do a little song and dance to trick them into thinking "My man really cares about me and wants me to be happy" is small change, so stop complaining.
 
2014-02-05 01:05:19 PM

FLMountainMan: ununcle: 3 in 6 men wish they weren't stupid enough to sign the best years of their life over to a selfish gold digging biatch. It's 50/50 guys.  I can't believe men are still falling for this farce.

It sucks that you chose the wrong woman, but statistically, married men are happier, make more money, live longer, have higher education, commit less crime, give more to charity, and vote more.  Yeah, it's a risk, but you're a farking man, when has risk aversion ever been an issue?


That stat could be misleading. The lucky half that don't get raked over the coals and wind up "happier, make more money, live longer, have higher education, commit less crime, give more to charity, and vote more" have the advantage of not losing their home and family. They also don't have to spend several decades of the prime of their life in indentured servitude. They benefit  from not being divorced, not so much being married. I'm curios to know if that poll only included men who were never married (not divorced) because the few I've met are quite happy.
 
2014-02-05 01:08:33 PM

Fafai: Are you denying women want marriage more than men?


What does it matter who wants it more? It's not a contest. If you don't want it, don't ask for it. By asking for it, you are saying that you want it.

Alright, so you want it, you're asking for it, and it's a romantic occasion. Plan something nice. Not (necessarily) something from some movie, something the two of you will enjoy. Whatever "nice" means to the two of you. If the two of you can't agree that the same thing is nice, why are you getting married?

Proposing is a huge deal. The amount of thought and emotional commitment you (should have) put into it is enormous. Spend a few minutes planning how you want to do it. Is that really a gigantic problem?

Being the one to ask does put a bit more pressure on guys, but, if what you say is true and girls always want it more, that's to our advantage. That tradition means that they don't usually ask while they're waiting for us to make up our mind. Oh, they'll hint, they'll suggest, even, but they don't usually ask.
 
2014-02-05 01:12:47 PM

tlars699: You go on bended knee because she has the baby making prowess, and that is why you honor her.


Please. Plenty of people get married with no plans for children. You can either bail out of this argument now or you can double down and risk looking more like the anti-gay marriage crowd. But you're right--regardless of whether an individual woman wants to reproduce, reproductive roles ARE the main reason that these displays are made to show women they're worth more. We should be moving beyond this at some point, no? Or is the black plague still threateneing to kill of humanity for good?

tlars699: You need to prove your worth to her. That you can provide a good life for the both of you


I do this every day through my commitment and my actions, not through showy gestures that ultimately do not guarantee anything other than the continued imbalance between the sexes (I mean that BOTH ways before someone wants to accuse me of being an MRA again).

I love how I'm supposedly the one with the farked up viewpoints here for daring to voice my opinion that an equal partnership for life should probably not start out on an unequal foot simply for tradition's sake.
 
2014-02-05 01:16:06 PM
All said and done, don't buy into the diamond hype. Buy into the romanticism, because it's (hopefully) once in a lifetime event for you. Find a lover you want to be with for ever ever ever ever?

Get a ring. Not an engagement ring, as even the non-diamond versions of those are overpriced.

Think of something funny, sweet, and memorable that suits both of you. You don't want to do it in front of other people, and she might? Meet up with them later after you've asked.

Make sure you would want to be married to her right then and there, and that you'd be willing to wait for her if she asked you to.

Weddings are parties, and should be in your budget. If you can't budget it, get married without one.

If she cares about the ring, and not about you? Just take the ring, and walk away.

If you're worried about the ring/wedding, and not about the lifetime commitment? Don't say yes.

If it takes you more than 2-3 years to sign a piece of paper saying you are willing to be with someone you asked to marry you, it's not about the piece of paper anymore.
 
2014-02-05 01:19:05 PM

Fafai: tlars699: You go on bended knee because she has the baby making prowess, and that is why you honor her.

Please. Plenty of people get married with no plans for children. You can either bail out of this argument now or you can double down and risk looking more like the anti-gay marriage crowd. But you're right--regardless of whether an individual woman wants to reproduce, reproductive roles ARE the main reason that these displays are made to show women they're worth more. We should be moving beyond this at some point, no? Or is the black plague still threateneing to kill of humanity for good?

tlars699: You need to prove your worth to her. That you can provide a good life for the both of you

I do this every day through my commitment and my actions, not through showy gestures that ultimately do not guarantee anything other than the continued imbalance between the sexes (I mean that BOTH ways before someone wants to accuse me of being an MRA again).

I love how I'm supposedly the one with the farked up viewpoints here for daring to voice my opinion that an equal partnership for life should probably not start out on an unequal foot simply for tradition's sake.


He was trolling you, stupid!
 
2014-02-05 01:24:34 PM

ThurmanMerman: You honestly believe that men don't want to get married as much as women do? And that women are somehow seen as "more special" than men?


Yes and yes. Why are you backpedaling? I thought your husband wanted to marry you exactly the same amount you wanted to marry him just as sure as there's no Santa Claus.

tthurstonxhowell: Being the one to ask does put a bit more pressure on guys, but, if what you say is true and girls always want it more, that's to our advantage. That tradition means that they don't usually ask while they're waiting for us to make up our mind. Oh, they'll hint, they'll suggest, even, but they don't usually ask.


How is this to anyone's advantage? Women can't go after what they want, they can only drop hints until the man decides. That's not good for them. And how is constantly hearing less-than-subtle marriage hints advantageous for a man? It's annoying. Wouldn't it be better for the women to just ask? But then the man become the prize/trophy and lord knows we can't have that. It's 'weird' and goes against what we're already used to.
 
2014-02-05 01:25:44 PM

Fafai: tlars699: You go on bended knee because she has the baby making prowess, and that is why you honor her.

Please. Plenty of people get married with no plans for children. You can either bail out of this argument now or you can double down and risk looking more like the anti-gay marriage crowd. But you're right--regardless of whether an individual woman wants to reproduce, reproductive roles ARE the main reason that these displays are made to show women they're worth more. We should be moving beyond this at some point, no? Or is the black plague still threateneing to kill of humanity for good?

tlars699: You need to prove your worth to her. That you can provide a good life for the both of you

I do this every day through my commitment and my actions,
not through showy gestures that ultimately do not guarantee anything other than the continued imbalance between the sexes (I mean that BOTH ways before someone wants to accuse me of being an MRA again).

I love how I'm supposedly the one with the farked up viewpoints here for daring to voice my opinion that an equal partnership for life should probably not start out on an unequal foot simply for tradition's sake.


Actually, I think we're actually for the same thing here.
(I was using the traditional reason for marriage as you were harping against a tradition. I was trying to show what it was there for, and that its not harmful to the dude to do it, and that it is an action that shows his mate that he would be honored. )

It's just that you're taking the "women want it more than men" side, and I'm taking the "men want it more" side.
It's romantic fluff. Really, if you don't want to do it, then who cares? Nobody.
Don't force your opinions on others, or disparage a tradition that you don't agree with; some people like this tradition, because it shows how they feel, and the importance of the moment.

Also, it doesn't start out on unequal footing.
Traditionally speaking: He decides when to get married, and gets down on bended knee, and then later, he carries her through the door. See? Dominant and Subservient all at the same time. Not that I like either, but in it's own twisted way, each position becomes part of a balanced whole.
 
2014-02-05 01:30:57 PM

Fafai: I love how I'm supposedly the one with the farked up viewpoints here for daring to voice my opinion that an equal partnership for life should probably not start out on an unequal foot simply for tradition's sake.


Fafai: Seeing as how marriage clearly benefits women moreso than men, the dropping to one knee thing has to be done away with. Talk about adding insult to injury. Yeah let me just get down on on my knees and BEG for the privilege to give you everything you want at the expense of my own interests. I pity any guy who did that. No way I was going to kneel. I didn't even have a ring when I proposed and I honestly couldn't give less of a fark whether it disappointed her or not.

If you're considering proposing, ask your woman if she thinks the kneeling proposal is romantic. If she finds it romantic, she's totally out of touch with the way the modern world works and you're probably better off dumping her ass. If she says it's dumb, congrats you got a keeper.


Fafai: The bended knee thing is just a farking disgrace. I don't know how any man who did that can ever look himself in the mirror, TBH. Talk about selling yourself short.


Fafai: I hate how it's obviously the woman who wants it more, the woman who has more to gain from marriage, and yet we still play this ridiculous game where the man has to ask and beg for her hand like it's something he wants more than she does, like she could just take it or leave it and is doing him a huge favor by accepting. I am shaking my head at all youi losers who kneeled down. Stop being losers.


Fafai: Are you denying women want marriage more than men? Your own wife wanted it more than you did. Also women do benefit more, as they generally report placing a higher value on safety and security in sexual relationships than do men.


Yes.
 
2014-02-05 01:33:03 PM

Epic Fap Session: Yes.


Why don't you explain why you think those are warped views then instead of just reposting what I said? Anyone can do that.
 
2014-02-05 01:34:41 PM

Fafai: Epic Fap Session: Yes.

Why don't you explain why you think those are warped views then instead of just reposting what I said? Anyone can do that.


Because there's no elaboration needed to demonstrate your jacked up opinions on relationships and marriage.
 
2014-02-05 01:36:44 PM
Fafai:
tthurstonxhowell: Being the one to ask does put a bit more pressure on guys, but, if what you say is true and girls always want it more, that's to our advantage. That tradition means that they don't usually ask while they're waiting for us to make up our mind. Oh, they'll hint, they'll suggest, even, but they don't usually ask.

How is this to anyone's advantage? Women can't go after what they want, they can only drop hints until the man decides. That's not good for them. And how is constantly hearing less-than-subtle marriage hints advantageous for a man? It's annoying. Wouldn't it be better for the women to just ask? But then the man become the prize/trophy and lord knows we can't have that. It's 'weird' and goes against what we're already used to.


Honestly: no trolling, I promise:

1.It's not.
2. Yes, and yes it's not good for them. Oh and traditional things like recipies are suppose dot bring this about too... XP
3. It's not good for them either, and yes- very annoying.
4. Yes, but some men don't want to be prized in this way, which exacerbates 2 and 3, because then she's asking him, and not waiting like some good little girlfriend. She wants stability and predicitibility and the ability to plan for what's ahead? She has to wait until he decides to get off his duff.

So you can see why women get pissed that through all the waiting, and holding back, and keeping our trap shut about the future, the dude puts our cheap-ass-ring in the bottom of a milkshake at Burger King, and expects us to be blown away that he even bothered.

:/

And then guys like you come along and say that we are expected to wait and hem and haw, because commitment is scary to teh mens, and that the Burger King is perfectly acceptable.

Unless I was a hipster, and knew it was done ironically, no.

It's not acceptable for you to demand me to be traditional lady folk, and unhappy with all of the waiting, and you can be whatever the hell you want.

If you're okay with me being un-traditional, and asking about the future whenever I feel uncertain(not often, but happens), then you can propose however you damn please. Or you can just let me do it. I'm coo.
 
2014-02-05 01:45:32 PM

tlars699: And then guys like you come along and say that we are expected to wait and hem and haw, because commitment is scary to teh mens, and that the Burger King is perfectly acceptable.


You're going to have to show me where I said anything that even sounded like this. I don't shy from commitment and am in fact one of the more commitment-minded men I know.

tlars699: It's not acceptable for you to demand me to be traditional lady folk, and unhappy with all of the waiting,


Again, never said that. I want people to be less traditional and move forward. If you're unhappy with waiting around to be married, then ask him to marry you. This is what I'm saying.
 
2014-02-05 01:52:41 PM
1 in 5 women also happens to be a biatchzilla, and the "proposal" is just the boyfriend saying "i give up. i fight no more forever".
 
2014-02-05 01:54:07 PM

Fafai: How is this to anyone's advantage? Women can't go after what they want, they can only drop hints until the man decides. That's not good for them. And how is constantly hearing less-than-subtle marriage hints advantageous for a man? It's annoying. Wouldn't it be better for the women to just ask? But then the man become the prize/trophy and lord knows we can't have that. It's 'weird' and goes against what we're already used to.


It's better because both people want it by the time anyone asks. No one wants to get a "maybe" to that question. Had she asked the moment she wanted it, I would have had to say "maybe". I like to think we'd have survived as a couple, but it would not have been a good day. It was a huge advantage to our relationship that tradition held her back.

Your whole trophy/prize things is such a sick and ridiculous way of looking at it that I can scarcely see how it applies to mentally healthy people living in the modern era. I wanted her to marry me, I got her to marry me. She wanted me to marry her, she got me to marry her. We both got the "prizes" we desired (to use your appalling terminology). If you didn't want her to marry you, you shouldn't have asked her to. If she didn't want to marry you, she shouldn't have said yes. If you asked and she said yes, you both signaled that you got what you wanted.

Of course, this goes back to a restatement of my initial point: If you don't both consider it winning, why are you getting married? If you do both consider it winning, what in the fark are you whining about? You win, she wins, just be happy and enjoy your time together. Plan a romantic day together. If you're not stuck obsessing over who just won your proposal, you'll enjoy it.
 
2014-02-05 01:58:32 PM
I lived with Mrs_Fab for nearly 2 years before I asked The Question. It wasn't a big surprise for her when I did, nor was that lack of surprise a big deal to her. She was genuinely happy about it, and so was I.

I did take her to a nice restaurant with a spectacular view, followed by a horse-drawn carriage ride in the city. I'm at least that romantic, anyway.

/yes, I gave her a diamond ring
//but a tasteful one we could afford
///happily married 25 years now
 
2014-02-05 01:59:17 PM
If 2.5 of 5 weddings end in divorce, then this only covers half of the bitterness. I guess 1 of 5 men are deeply disappointed by their wife for various reasons, leaving the extra 0.5 to blame on the kids.
 
2014-02-05 02:00:33 PM

Fafai: tlars699: And then guys like you come along and say that we are expected to wait and hem and haw, because commitment is scary to teh mens, and that the Burger King is perfectly acceptable.

You're going to have to show me where I said anything that even sounded like this. I don't shy from commitment and am in fact one of the more commitment-minded men I know.

tlars699: It's not acceptable for you to demand me to be traditional lady folk, and unhappy with all of the waiting,

Again, never said that. I want people to be less traditional and move forward. If you're unhappy with waiting around to be married, then ask him to marry you. This is what I'm saying.


1. You didn't want men to be tied to a tradition because proposing was hard enough as it was, and it doesn't help to have an equal marriage start out on unequal footing, but women totally want to be married more than men, and somehow benefit more from it than men do.

2.Personally, I tried to ask in each relationship I've had, because I =/= traditional in the slightest sense.

I was told by each in their own turn that they would prefer to ask, because otherwise it's weird. (Check Bio. I'm a lady. :) )

Finally, on man/round 3 I asked that if I couldn't ask, then was it okay to talk about it every once in a while? Since then we've established that both parties want Yes on their ballot.

I've told him time and again I don't want anything but him and a piece of paper making it official for everyone, but he insists on trying to "plan out" a proposal. (ACK!)
At least I got "How about on Pi day, we make a Pi of Sauron" out of him, or else I'd be driving him batty trying to get some idea.
Since there's been a timeline established, I am completely silent (content and satisfied) on the whole "we should sign a document" topic.
 
2014-02-05 02:00:43 PM
1 in 5 guys only propose to a woman to get her to stop nagging him about it.
 
2014-02-05 02:02:13 PM

thurstonxhowell: If you don't both consider it winning, why are you getting married? If you do both consider it winning, what in the fark are you whining about? You win, she wins, just be happy and enjoy your time together. Plan a romantic day together. If you're not stuck obsessing over who just won your proposal, you'll enjoy it.


I'm a very genuine person. I don't like lying or being untrue to myself or my ideals. Now, I had decided that I want to be with her long term. I have no problem with commitment and had already demonstrated as much. But she wanted to be married. I looked at it and realized we were pretty much already married so sure why not? But is "sure why not?" the magical moment women are after? No. So I had to frame things like I was asking her for something when in fact it was the other way around. It felt like lying, jumping through hoops. I don't regret getting married, but I think it's lame that tradition dictates the man ask.

thurstonxhowell: It was a huge advantage to our relationship that tradition held her back.


Maybe if we move beyond that tradition, women won't NEED holding back. Maybe if they hear enough "no, too soon" then all of this can begin to change and we can all be more realistic about how things are and come to meet in the middle. I'm sick of all these imposed gender roles.
 
2014-02-05 02:11:29 PM

Gig103: If 2.5 of 5 weddings end in divorce, then this only covers half of the bitterness. I guess 1 of 5 men are deeply disappointed by their wife for various reasons, leaving the extra 0.5 to blame on the kids.


Or other tragic items.
Sometimes people get divorced because they lost the baby they had together, and get reminded too frequently to be able to handle that level of grief.
 
2014-02-05 02:13:32 PM
• Diamond ring was too small
• Proposal wasn't romantic enough
• Wasn't done on bended knee
• Before an audience of all her friends


Okay, I did three out of four. And she cried. So I guess I passed?
 
2014-02-05 02:13:37 PM
Articles like this make me love my (common law) wife even more.
 
2014-02-05 02:16:53 PM

tlars699: 2.Personally, I tried to ask in each relationship I've had


LOL! "I tried to ask in every relationship I've had and they all were like 'err uhhh no' and then I negotiated how often I'd be able to pester them about it for the future without them going insane but still I maintain women don't want marriage more than men!"
 
2014-02-05 02:22:52 PM

The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves: She's thinking lobster, I'm thinking Burger King.


N.W.A.

/Not obscure.
//Nice reference though.
 
2014-02-05 02:29:23 PM
"And it seems that modern would-be brides are so desperate to bag their dream engagement ring they are chipping in to the cost themselves."

No, that's not biased at all. You can't win. "I would like to help contribute to this expensive purchase" = "desperate to bag your dream ring".
 
2014-02-05 02:35:49 PM

Fafai: tlars699: 2.Personally, I tried to ask in each relationship I've had

LOL! "I tried to ask in every relationship I've had and they all were like 'err uhhh no' and then I negotiated how often I'd be able to pester them about it for the future without them going insane but still I maintain women don't want marriage more than men!"


One woman wanting marriage does not make a study. I'd say it was about equal betewen the sexes without caving into cultural/peer pressure about it.

I only negotiated for the last one to be able to talk about the future at all, while making it clear I wasn't trying to wheedle anything out of him.
I just wanted to be able to talk about how I felt/what I daydream about without making him feel I am imposing, or that I am nagging at him to propose.
(Thanks to douchebag #2 taking ANYTHING dealing with the future presented conversationally as "OMG! WHY AREN"T WE MARRIED YESTERDAY?!" Seriously, it was football, WoW, or all of a sudden I'm nagging him about marriage. "Could you make us dinner later tonight, since you're home all day?" "STOP ASKING ME TO MARRY YOU, WOMAN!!!")


I also have kids, thanks to douchebag number two(HE INSISTED WE KEEP THEM, AND HOW HE WANTED TO BE WITH ME BECAUSE OF IT>>>_<<<; and I fell for it. Twice. Ugh.), so my financial stability/security/saftey needs are a bit heightened as compared to a normal womanly being, so it's unfair to lump me in as a representative for the rest of the population.

I only asked each of the suited after 1.5 years and after cohabitating with them for over 6 months, essentially after it was established/clear to me that I would be fine spending the rest of my life with them.

Two said no, because they weren't the ones asking.
It fits your scenario of non traditionalism, and I don't see how you find my agreeing with you against said tradition laughable.

I just don't agree with you on the reasons why the tradition should be ignored, and if I didn't have kids, I probably wouldn't ask at all, and not give a flying fark about marriage until I was sure they were ready.

(correction: I never asked number one, but did the good girl waiting bit; NO hinting, wheedling, nothing, mostly because I was content with the here and now. Got signed into a lease together, and then dumped after all other housing options were gone).

If they had asked prior to that, I would have told them I don't know yet, and made them sit on it. :P
 
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