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(Pando Daily)   The first congressman to take on the NSA is now pushing up daisies. "He was destroyed. And after he was destroyed, he was forgotten. Now he's dead, and no one noticed, or cared"   (pando.com) divider line 127
    More: Scary, Seymour Hersh, Communications Act of 1934, Royal Albert Hall, Church Committee, signals intelligences, domestic spying, executive privilege, select committees  
•       •       •

4267 clicks; posted to Politics » on 05 Feb 2014 at 9:30 AM (31 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-02-05 08:18:50 AM
He took on all the clandestine services because for decades they were used to overthrow democracies, mine harbors, and murder women and children.  Also, for the most part, he took on the CIA which had been at the center of these operations.  Saying he "took on the NSA" is a disservice to work he did reining in the CIA.
 
2014-02-05 08:26:47 AM
He was a HERO, Subby

A real patriot.
 
2014-02-05 08:28:39 AM

WTF Indeed: He took on all the clandestine services because for decades they were used to overthrow democracies, mine harbors, and murder women and children.  Also, for the most part, he took on the CIA which had been at the center of these operations.  Saying he "took on the NSA" is a disservice to work he did reining in the CIA.


The NSA (and the FISA Act) was really a side-show of what Pike and Senator Frank Church were working on, which as you said, mainly focused on the CIA.

Still, Pike and Church were actually *MONITORED* by the NSA themselves, something that should send a shiver down the spine of anyone, that sitting members of Congress had all of their communications monitored by a secret government agency* that was basically accountable to no one


*Full disclosure:  I used to basically work for the NSA when I was in the Army, but that was post-FISA and pre-9/11 and it was completely oriented to monitoring foreign governments and military forces.
 
2014-02-05 08:29:34 AM

vudukungfu: He was a HERO, Subby

A real patriot.


Agreed.  A real patriot isn't afraid to say "Hey, what the government is doing is *WRONG*".
 
2014-02-05 08:46:55 AM

dittybopper: vudukungfu: He was a HERO, Subby

A real patriot.

Agreed.  A real patriot isn't afraid to say "Hey, what the government is doing is *WRONG*".


Saying it's one thing.  Pursuing it at personal risk is another.  He walked the walked.  Unlike most of our rhetorical leaders and representatives.
 
2014-02-05 09:08:46 AM

Diogenes: dittybopper: vudukungfu: He was a HERO, Subby

A real patriot.

Agreed.  A real patriot isn't afraid to say "Hey, what the government is doing is *WRONG*".

Saying it's one thing.  Pursuing it at personal risk is another.  He walked the walked.  Unlike most of our rhetorical leaders and representatives.


Well, putting it out there for everyone to see is pursuing it at personal risk.   Of course, he was a congressman so there was little they could actually do about it unless they really had something salacious on him, which apparently they didn't.
 
2014-02-05 09:41:04 AM
Thanks Obama
 
2014-02-05 09:41:41 AM
Boring.  Did you guys hear about that Coke commercial?
 
2014-02-05 09:45:53 AM
"If an attack were to be launched on America in the very near future, it is my belief that America would not know that the attack were about to be launched."

thats sounds about right
 
2014-02-05 09:55:21 AM

bindlestiff2600: "If an attack were to be launched on America in the very near future, it is my belief that America would not know that the attack were about to be launched."

thats sounds about right


Fortunately, this belief has turned out to be completely unfounded.
 
2014-02-05 09:58:26 AM
Pike was smart enough to know he never had much chance of getting into the Senate from the start.  It was a Democrat in a highly Republican rural district (my own at the time) and didn't have access to the money or the political machines (located in New York and Albany) he needed.  Also, at the time, the senators were Daniel Patrick Moynihan and Jacob Javits; he wouldn't have challenged Moynihan, and Javits was extremely popular (and Elizabeth Holtzman was already the leading challenger).
 
2014-02-05 10:00:30 AM
Weird  how anyone who questions secret government  programs eventually ends up dead, even if it takes 40 years.
 
2014-02-05 10:03:53 AM

Moopy Mac: bindlestiff2600: "If an attack were to be launched on America in the very near future, it is my belief that America would not know that the attack were about to be launched."

thats sounds about right

Fortunately, this belief has turned out to be completely unfounded.


There really needs to be a sarcasm font.  i am pretty sure this comment was made tongue in cheek, but these days who the hell really knows.
 
2014-02-05 10:06:41 AM

WTF Indeed: He took on all the clandestine services because for decades they were used to overthrow democracies, mine harbors, and murder women and children.


Well, thank goodness all that's changed now.
 
2014-02-05 10:07:14 AM
img1.fark.net congressman who left congress in 1979 not high on public watch list img1.fark.net
this is not a drill
 
2014-02-05 10:07:16 AM
Tragically cut down in his prime. This shows what happens when you go up against the Illuminati--they wait until you're 93 and then--BAM!--they gotcha!
 
2014-02-05 10:07:32 AM
So it goes in New Rome-on-the-Potomac.
The company doesn't love you.

Never forget that.
 
2014-02-05 10:11:08 AM

bindlestiff2600: "If an attack were to be launched on America in the very near future, it is my belief that America would not know that the attack were about to be launched."

thats sounds about right


There's a PDB dated 6AUG2001 sitting unread in the corner, weeping uncontrollably.
 
2014-02-05 10:12:35 AM

Dr Dreidel: There's a PDB dated 6AUG2001 sitting unread in the corner, weeping uncontrollably.


oh yeah the one that says "hey fyi bin laden is still an asshole" and offered no relevant specifics
 
2014-02-05 10:13:49 AM

Diogenes: He walked the walked.


i151.photobucket.com
Hey, tea partiers put themselves at risk every day.
 
2014-02-05 10:15:26 AM

dittybopper: Still, Pike and Church were actually *MONITORED* by the NSA themselves, something that should send a shiver down the spine of anyone, that sitting members of Congress had all of their communications monitored by a secret government agency* that was basically accountable to no one


If they were monitored by the NSA without an FBI warrant, that would be a major scandal. Same as if a telephone repairman taps your phone without a warrant. But if he does so at the direction of the local police department, do you then claim to be under the surveillance of a shadowy clique of telephone repairmen?


Other fails from the article:

...in every instance, US intelligence failed miserably ...
Important events occurred where there was insufficient intelligence; therefore, we collected too much intelligence???

Hall reminded Pike that the Ford White House had offered to show the NSA charter document to Pike's committee just as it had done with Church's Senate Committee members, who had agreed to merely view the charter at a government location outside of Congress, without entering the secret document into the Senate record. Officially, publicly, it still didn't exist. Pike refused to accept that . . . "It seems incredible to me, very frankly, that we are asked to appropriate large amounts of money for that agency which employs large numbers of people without being provided a copy of the piece of paper by which the agency is authorized."

It wasn't Hall's choice whether to comply with Pike's request. Hall was given the choice between violating the law and doing what Pike asked, and he made every effort to comply without breaking the law. Pike could have seen the document at any time, but he used the fact that he didn't get everything 100% his way to throw a tantrum.
Sounds like someone who liked manufacturing outrage.

with the NSA by far the largest intelligence agency of all
I'd love to see what this is based on.
NSA: $10.8 billion
CIA: $14.7 billion
FBI: 8.1 billion

Pike charged the NSA with taking unacceptable risks that threatened to spark war with the Soviets on several occasions, using Navy subs, including nuclear-armed subs, to penetrate Soviet territorial waters to perform intelligence activities.
The NSA does not tell the Navy what to do. Technically, the President tells them both what to do, but as a practical matter, the Navy tells the NSA what to do more than vice-versa. The Joint Chiefs of Staff (who "advise" both the Navy and the National Security Council) have Navy people, but not NSA people.
 
2014-02-05 10:25:57 AM

draypresct: The NSA does not tell the Navy what to do.


And you know this... how? Because of what they tell the public?
 
2014-02-05 10:33:58 AM
Wanted for questioning....

cdn-premiere.ladmedia.fr
 
2014-02-05 10:36:17 AM

T-Servo: Diogenes: He walked the walked.

[i151.photobucket.com image 470x350]
Hey, tea partiers put themselves at risk every day.


leavin' the rib joint, too.
 
2014-02-05 10:36:58 AM

Anonymous Bosch: draypresct: The NSA does not tell the Navy what to do.

And you know this... how? Because of what they tell the public?


Because of the rest of my sentence, with links?

Or do you believe the US govt is lying to everyone about its command structure, and that the Naval Joint Chief representatives are actually NSA in disguise?
 
2014-02-05 10:38:51 AM

Anonymous Bosch: draypresct: The NSA does not tell the Navy what to do.

And you know this... how? Because of what they tell the public?


Exactly.  The problem with the NSA isn't that we don't have access to every single classified thing they're doing.  The problem is that we don't have access to what the agency is at the most basic level.  The FBI is domestic federal law enforcement.  The CIA is foreign intelligence.  What the hell is the NSA exactly?

It's sort of domestic intelligence, but it also spies on other countries.  It's sort of an Executive agency, but maybe a bit of a military one, too.  It's sort of accountable to Congress, but anybody who tries to ask about its budget doesn't have a job within a year or so.
 
2014-02-05 10:58:45 AM

imontheinternet: Anonymous Bosch: draypresct: The NSA does not tell the Navy what to do.

And you know this... how? Because of what they tell the public?

Exactly.  The problem with the NSA isn't that we don't have access to every single classified thing they're doing.  The problem is that we don't have access to what the agency is at the most basic level.  The FBI is domestic federal law enforcement.  The CIA is foreign intelligence.  What the hell is the NSA exactly?

It's sort of domestic intelligence, but it also spies on other countries.  It's sort of an Executive agency, but maybe a bit of a military one, too.  It's sort of accountable to Congress, but anybody who tries to ask about its budget doesn't have a job within a year or so.


The NSA is not domestic intelligence. May I suggest you stop by their museum sometime? They will happily explain their origins, their roles and tools in past wars (up to the point that the material hasn't yet been declassified).

Short version: The NSA are the tech geeks who try to read foreign governments' mail. Sometimes, the FBI will use them to monitor US citizens, but these cases are at the FBI's direction and involve a warrant each and every time. The current scandal involves the NSA A) using information about the existence of phone calls (not the content) and B) having the capability to do what the FBI sometimes tells them to do; namely read the content.

Can you provide examples of these people who have questioned the NSA's budget and were fired because of it? Please keep in mind that Pike did not just question the budget; this 'patriot' wanted to pretty much shut down all US intelligence and counter-intelligence services. During the cold war. Without any suggestions for what we were supposed to do without these intelligence sources.
FTFA: in January 1976 the Pike Committee approved its draft report slamming the intelligence community as a dangerous boondoggle, calling for radical budget reductions, the abolition of the Defense Intelligence Agency, and other radical structural reforms
And yet, no one interfered with Pike's career or prevented him from speaking his mind.
 
2014-02-05 11:04:20 AM

T-Servo: Diogenes: He walked the walked.

[i151.photobucket.com image 470x350]
Hey, tea partiers put themselves at risk every day.


Is this a thing now?  We take pictures of random ugly people and label them as adhering to the ideology we disagree with?  I can see if he was one of those idiots at a teabagger rally or OWS, but that just appears to be your everyday obese lazyass guy.
 
2014-02-05 11:06:45 AM

draypresct: The current scandal involves the NSA A) using information about the existence of phone calls (not the content) and B) having the capability to do what the FBI sometimes tells them to do; namely read the content.


oh is that all
 
2014-02-05 11:10:45 AM

sprawl15: Dr Dreidel: There's a PDB dated 6AUG2001 sitting unread in the corner, weeping uncontrollably.

oh yeah the one that says "hey fyi bin laden is still an asshole" and offered no relevant specifics


My point is that no information is useful if you choose to ignore it. The PDB, the Clinton team's warnings, the "chatter" the FBI picked up (that suddenly slowed down on 9-10SEP2001), the memo about the guys who didn't care about landing planes, the bombings in Yemen and Oman and [the navy vessel bombed in summer 01]...

Looking back, it's easy to connect those dots, but if we're going to pay to develop this intel, why ignore it?

// that PDB is one link in a long chain
// IIRC, it did mention planes
 
2014-02-05 11:17:51 AM

bindlestiff2600: "If an attack were to be launched on America in the very near future, it is my belief that America would not know that the attack were about to be launched."

thats sounds about right


certainly was in the fall of 2001.
 
2014-02-05 11:18:47 AM

Dr Dreidel: My point is that no information is useful if you choose to ignore it.


and some information, if you don't ignore it, remains useless

Dr Dreidel: IIRC, it did mention planes


it mentioned them in context of a potential hostage exchange iirc

the problem with playing the hindsight connect the dots game is that you have a giant vomitous wall of information about threats coming at you. it's one thing to say that the greater intel failure was inexcusable, another to say that bits of information that happened to mention an airplane were the smoking gun memo that predicted 9/11
 
2014-02-05 11:20:15 AM

sprawl15: Dr Dreidel: There's a PDB dated 6AUG2001 sitting unread in the corner, weeping uncontrollably.

oh yeah the one that says "hey fyi bin laden is still an asshole" and offered no relevant specifics


fark you you useless hack.
 
2014-02-05 11:23:48 AM

Curious: fark you you useless hack.


i.imgur.com
 
2014-02-05 11:24:52 AM

sprawl15: the problem with playing the hindsight connect the dots game is that you have a giant vomitous wall of information about threats coming at you. it's one thing to say that the greater intel failure was inexcusable, another to say that bits of information that happened to mention an airplane were the smoking gun memo that predicted 9/11


Right, so we can either use the intel we get, or scrap the whole system since any useful intel we DO get is drowned out by the noise.

Which was my point - EITHER our intel-gathering apparatus is gathering useful info (that is, info able to be put to some use in protecting the nation from threats) that gets ignored because making predictive patterns is hard, OR it's not gathering useful info at all.
 
2014-02-05 11:31:20 AM

Dr Dreidel: Right, so we can either use the intel we get, or scrap the whole system since any useful intel we DO get is drowned out by the noise.


uh you seem to be tied to some kind of false binary idea that either all intel is useful including this specific document or no intel anywhere ever is useful

this specific intel was not useful, yet it's the go-to for idiot internet posters because of the scary name and the flexible definition of 'determined'. there was other much more useful intel that was outright dropped and ignored and that is the Actual Problem that should be looked at. the bush administration shat many beds when it came to looking at threats but this memo was not one of them.

Dr Dreidel: Which was my point - EITHER our intel-gathering apparatus is gathering useful info (that is, info able to be put to some use in protecting the nation from threats) that gets ignored because making predictive patterns is hard, OR it's not gathering useful info at all.


which is utter bullshiat. intel can be ignored for reasons other than the difficulty in predicting a pattern, like inefficiency between departments or poor communications methods or just poor bureaucratic design. yet the gross mismanagement of the intel apparatus is somehow secondary to 'look at this memo about bin laden' by all kinds of very concerned internet posters
 
2014-02-05 11:31:55 AM

webron: Moopy Mac: bindlestiff2600: "If an attack were to be launched on America in the very near future, it is my belief that America would not know that the attack were about to be launched."

thats sounds about right

Fortunately, this belief has turned out to be completely unfounded.

There really needs to be a sarcasm font.  i am pretty sure this comment was made tongue in cheek, but these days who the hell really knows.


I should have included a picture of Hulk Hogan to remove any doubt.
 
2014-02-05 11:35:14 AM

sprawl15: congressman who left congress in 1979 not high on public watch list
this is not a drill


I thought the same thing, but reading the article, it's framed as "Taking on the intelligence service resulted in him being run out of Congress and into obscurity" which makes more sense as a story.
 
2014-02-05 11:38:08 AM

draypresct: i
Short version: The NSA are the tech geeks who try to read foreign governments' mail. Sometimes, the FBI will use them to monitor US citizens, but these cases are at the FBI's direction and involve a warrant each and every time.


It's so cute that you believe this statement. tee hee!
 
2014-02-05 11:39:27 AM
Wait a minute -- I thought Pike was a Captain, not a Senator.

/obscure?
 
2014-02-05 11:42:24 AM

draypresct: The NSA is not domestic intelligence


Collecting information on every citizen in America is not domestic intelligence?  Okay.

draypresct: Short version: The NSA are the tech geeks who try to read foreign governments' mail. Sometimes, the FBI will use them to monitor US citizens, but these cases are at the FBI's direction and involve a warrant each and every time. The current scandal involves the NSA A) using information about the existence of phone calls (not the content) and B) having the capability to do what the FBI sometimes tells them to do; namely read the content.


If all they do is passively collect information, why is there so much secrecy and why are there so many lies?  Before every new revelation, there was a solid wall of lies from the NSA and in some cases from the Administration swearing that the program couldn't do this or that, followed by hard proof that it could.

It seems extremely naive to believe that we're giving this agency so much power and so much capability with so little oversight, and it's this passive, gentle giant that has no control over policy and does no investigations of its own.  It has no agenda to push.  Is this what they expect us to believe?

draypresct: Can you provide examples of these people who have questioned the NSA's budget and were fired because of it?


You're kidding, right?  The NSA has been raked through the coals from the Snowden revelations, and yet where is the will to do something about it in Washington?  Nobody bothers standing up to the NSA, because of what happened to people like Pike.
 
2014-02-05 11:42:46 AM

sprawl15: Curious: fark you you useless hack.

[i.imgur.com image 228x221]


yeah i over reacted but it's a really sore subject for me. 9/11 was bad but the reaction, the partriot act, the cock up afghanistan became, the saddam caused 9/11 total BS and all the other abject failures of the bush years MIGHT have been alleviated if they had acted on what they knew.
 
2014-02-05 11:53:19 AM

FLMountainMan: Is this a thing now?


You've been on Fark long enough to know how memes work, especially if they involve fat people. Sort of like using Mustard Guy to reference Obama.

/besides, I was in a hurry
 
2014-02-05 11:55:54 AM

imontheinternet: draypresct: The NSA is not domestic intelligence

Collecting information on every citizen in America is not domestic intelligence?  Okay.

draypresct: Short version: The NSA are the tech geeks who try to read foreign governments' mail. Sometimes, the FBI will use them to monitor US citizens, but these cases are at the FBI's direction and involve a warrant each and every time. The current scandal involves the NSA A) using information about the existence of phone calls (not the content) and B) having the capability to do what the FBI sometimes tells them to do; namely read the content.

If all they do is passively collect information, why is there so much secrecy and why are there so many lies?  Before every new revelation, there was a solid wall of lies from the NSA and in some cases from the Administration swearing that the program couldn't do this or that, followed by hard proof that it could.

It seems extremely naive to believe that we're giving this agency so much power and so much capability with so little oversight, and it's this passive, gentle giant that has no control over policy and does no investigations of its own.  It has no agenda to push.  Is this what they expect us to believe?

draypresct: Can you provide examples of these people who have questioned the NSA's budget and were fired because of it?

You're kidding, right?  The NSA has been raked through the coals from the Snowden revelations, and yet where is the will to do something about it in Washington?  Nobody bothers standing up to the NSA, because of what happened to people like Pike.


Oh no, not "raked through the coals." Gotta love the vague platitudes these opponents of the NSA come up with. There's literally zero evidence of any wrong doing, other than their fevered imagination filled with slippy slope arguments, and yet, the meaningless hyperbole continues.

Now is the part where you tell me I'm so stupid or naive for basing my beliefs in fact and reality instead of the boogeymen sold on the news. 'IS THE NSA READING ALL YOUR EMAILS AND LISTENING TO ALL YOUR PHONE CALLS???' - It still amazes me the kind of fantastical mind it must take to believe this.
 
2014-02-05 11:57:02 AM

Curious: yeah i over reacted but it's a really sore subject for me. 9/11 was bad but the reaction, the partriot act, the cock up afghanistan became, the saddam caused 9/11 total BS and all the other abject failures of the bush years MIGHT have been alleviated if they had acted on what they knew.


ok
 
2014-02-05 11:57:04 AM

draypresct: imontheinternet: Anonymous Bosch: draypresct: The NSA does not tell the Navy what to do.

And you know this... how? Because of what they tell the public?

Exactly.  The problem with the NSA isn't that we don't have access to every single classified thing they're doing.  The problem is that we don't have access to what the agency is at the most basic level.  The FBI is domestic federal law enforcement.  The CIA is foreign intelligence.  What the hell is the NSA exactly?

It's sort of domestic intelligence, but it also spies on other countries.  It's sort of an Executive agency, but maybe a bit of a military one, too.  It's sort of accountable to Congress, but anybody who tries to ask about its budget doesn't have a job within a year or so.

The NSA is not domestic intelligence. May I suggest you stop by their museum sometime? They will happily explain their origins, their roles and tools in past wars (up to the point that the material hasn't yet been declassified).

Short version: The NSA are the tech geeks who try to read foreign governments' mail. Sometimes, the FBI will use them to monitor US citizens, but these cases are at the FBI's direction and involve a warrant each and every time. The current scandal involves the NSA A) using information about the existence of phone calls (not the content) and B) having the capability to do what the FBI sometimes tells them to do; namely read the content.

Can you provide examples of these people who have questioned the NSA's budget and were fired because of it? Please keep in mind that Pike did not just question the budget; this 'patriot' wanted to pretty much shut down all US intelligence and counter-intelligence services. During the cold war. Without any suggestions for what we were supposed to do without these intelligence sources.
FTFA: in January 1976 the Pike Committee approved its draft report slamming the intelligence community as a dangerous boondoggle, calling for radical budget reductions, the abolition of the De ...


Is this someone actually white knighting the NSA?

Wow. There really is a troll under EVERY bridge...
 
2014-02-05 12:02:03 PM

imontheinternet: draypresct: The NSA is not domestic intelligence

Collecting information on every citizen in America is not domestic intelligence?  Okay.



Only if you really stretch the definition of domestic intelligence. The post office collects information on every citizen in America. They are not (directly) involved in domestic intelligence. I suppose there are strange circumstances where the post office could be asked to help out the FBI (with a warrant). Does that make the post office domestic intelligence?


imontheinternet: draypresct: Can you provide examples of these people who have questioned the NSA's budget and were fired because of it?


You're kidding, right? The NSA has been raked through the coals from the Snowden revelations, and yet where is the will to do something about it in Washington? Nobody bothers standing up to the NSA, because of what happened to people like Pike.


Your statement is demonstrably false. Lots of people are 'standing up' to the NSA.

What on Earth do you think the NSA did to Pike? Do you really think they assasinated him? Or forced him to retire? Or forced him to spend 30+ years publishing his views as a columnist?
 
2014-02-05 12:03:07 PM

dittybopper: WTF Indeed: He took on all the clandestine services because for decades they were used to overthrow democracies, mine harbors, and murder women and children.  Also, for the most part, he took on the CIA which had been at the center of these operations.  Saying he "took on the NSA" is a disservice to work he did reining in the CIA.

The NSA (and the FISA Act) was really a side-show of what Pike and Senator Frank Church were working on, which as you said, mainly focused on the CIA.

Still, Pike and Church were actually *MONITORED* by the NSA themselves, something that should send a shiver down the spine of anyone, that sitting members of Congress had all of their communications monitored by a secret government agency* that was basically accountable to no one

*Full disclosure:  I used to basically work for the NSA when I was in the Army, but that was post-FISA and pre-9/11 and it was completely oriented to monitoring foreign governments and military forces.


Hell, the NSA busted Nixon's staff talking to the North Vietnamese back in 1968.  They have all the dirt on everyone.  And you can bet that every national politician has an NSA file that gets reviewed if they start making noise.
 
2014-02-05 12:04:38 PM

FunkyBlue: Is this someone actually white knighting the NSA?


I'll agree they need more FISA oversight, but I disagree with the position that they need to be disbanded without any replacement.
 
2014-02-05 12:04:39 PM

justtray: Oh no, not "raked through the coals." Gotta love the vague platitudes these opponents of the NSA come up with. There's literally zero evidence of any wrong doing, other than their fevered imagination filled with slippy slope arguments, and yet, the meaningless hyperbole continues.


The NSA's own report found almost 3000 abuses in a single year.  Post-Snowden, NSA apologists can't make these blanket claims that they're not doing anything wrong, and that we should just trust them.  We have solid proof now.  The NSA can't hide behind its own wall of secrecy and claim everything is okay behind it now that we've gotten a peak.

justtray: Now is the part where you tell me I'm so stupid or naive for basing my beliefs in fact and reality instead of the boogeymen sold on the news. 'IS THE NSA READING ALL YOUR EMAILS AND LISTENING TO ALL YOUR PHONE CALLS???' - It still amazes me the kind of fantastical mind it must take to believe this.


They can read any and all emails that they choose to read and listen to any and all phone calls they choose to listen to.  If another Pike comes along and challenges them, they can have his entire personal life pulled up at a keystroke.  They're up to the same tricks they've been pulling since Pike's time, but the tools they have now are incredibly sophisticated and, more than that, people live online now.  That level of monitoring of citizens' daily lives is not acceptable in a free society.
 
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