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(Salt Lake Tribune)   "Utah study will scan brains of returned Mormon missionaries." error, bleeeeep..... CALIBRATE MACHINE ERROR_PATH_NOT_FOUND x69drnk-e932200stoopid23   (sltrib.com) divider line 53
    More: Amusing, Mormon missionaries, Mormons, Utah, missionary  
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3165 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Feb 2014 at 9:00 AM (42 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-02-05 09:03:27 AM  
Hello, my name is Elder Price...
 
2014-02-05 09:06:15 AM  
Can we do these headlines with Muslims too?  Or is it just Mormons?
 
2014-02-05 09:07:28 AM  
There is no Sanctuary!

www.siskoid.com
 
2014-02-05 09:10:29 AM  

FLMountainMan: Can we do these headlines with Muslims too?  Or is it just Mormons?


[rolleyes] yah because no one has ever made any derogatory comments about Muslims

/when was the last time a Muslim knocked at your door trying to sell their crazy farked up way of life?
 
2014-02-05 09:10:30 AM  
I've met a whole bunch of Mormon missionaries over the years. They've always been unfailingly polite and nice to me, even after I've said I disagree with their beliefs. Jehovah's Witnesses, too, actually.

Really, the only people I get to use the water cannon on anymore are the guys trying to sell me home security systems.
 
2014-02-05 09:13:53 AM  
Hello do you have a minute to ask me questions that will make me challenge the beliefs that have been brainwashed into me?
 
2014-02-05 09:14:10 AM  

FourDirections: I've met a whole bunch of Mormon missionaries over the years. They've always been unfailingly polite and nice to me, even after I've said I disagree with their beliefs. Jehovah's Witnesses, too, actually.

Really, the only people I get to use the water cannon on anymore are the guys trying to sell me home security systems.


Heh, boiling oil for me.  Yeah, the Mormon belief system is weird, but no weirder than most other religions, once you drill down far enough.
 
das
2014-02-05 09:21:09 AM  
They have a polygamy tab????
 
2014-02-05 09:22:11 AM  
Oh yes, so hilarious! They're religious so they must have no brains! I GET IT!
 
2014-02-05 09:25:24 AM  
PunGent:  Yeah, the Mormon belief system is weird, but no weirder than most other religions, once you drill down far enough.

As an Ex-mo, I would tend to disagree. their farked up belief system screws up people's private lives. Bishops have private, one-on-one, behind locked door interviews with male and female youth and routinely ask personal questions about masturbation and sexual activity. they take 10% of your income and - as far as I can find out - are the only religion in the world who will deny a parent seeing their children get married, unless the said parents are church members AND HAVE PAID THEIR 10%.

the. only. religion.in.the.world
who will separate friends and family from a wedding ceremony
evil, vile cult
 
2014-02-05 09:25:44 AM  
As an ex-Mormon, who is also an ex-Mormon missionary, I think that is is wonderful that someone is finally doing a serious PTSD study on them.  Being a missionary is an exercise in two years of emotional abuse.  Every second of your day is controlled through a mixture of rules and guilt.  You see, you should be baptizing hundreds of people on your mission, because the church's message is thought to be just so amazing.  Since nobody does this, or even comes anywhere near the official church goals, the blame is naturally placed on the shoulders of every teenage missionary who as ever served, rather than on the message itself.

You see, it is your fault that no one is joining God's one true church.  That time you slept in five minutes past 6am, or didn't get back until a few minutes past your 9pm curfew, you are tarnished, and no one can feel the spirit when you talk.  Oh, and let's not even talk about that time you stayed more than an hour in someones home, or didn't knock on enough doors.  You know you are supposed to knock on enough doors, so that precisely 30 people either invite you in, or tell you to go to hell.  If you only had faith, people would open the door before slamming it on your face, so that you could record them as on official statistic, rather than peep out the peep hole, before ignoring you, which you know does not count.

Then let's not forget that the only thing you are allowed to read, watch, or listen to, are scriptures and church magazine articles, church produced movies that you show to the lonely old or mentally ill people, who are the only ones who will listen to you, and CDs of the Mormon Tabernacle Choir.  And if you listen to regular music, take too long in the shower, or leave your companions sight for any reason, other than to use the restroom, the other guy will call the old man who runs the mission, and you will than be forced to listen to a lecture, about how your moral failings are keeping people from joining the church.

Oh, and don't even get me started on the little white handbook full of rules, that you are supposed to read from every day, and follow each and every one.  To the letter.  Nor will I mention how if you contact your family, other through mail, which you may only write once a week, or twice a year phone calls on Christmas and Mother's Day, you are going to hell.
 
2014-02-05 09:33:00 AM  

furterfan: PunGent:  Yeah, the Mormon belief system is weird, but no weirder than most other religions, once you drill down far enough.

As an Ex-mo, I would tend to disagree. their farked up belief system screws up people's private lives. Bishops have private, one-on-one, behind locked door interviews with male and female youth and routinely ask personal questions about masturbation and sexual activity. they take 10% of your income and - as far as I can find out - are the only religion in the world who will deny a parent seeing their children get married, unless the said parents are church members AND HAVE PAID THEIR 10%.

the. only. religion.in.the.world
who will separate friends and family from a wedding ceremony
evil, vile cult


Scientology also does that, so, you know. There's that.
 
2014-02-05 09:33:54 AM  
Some Coke Drinking Guy,

So by shutting the door on their face we're getting them in trouble.

How long do we have to talk to them so they can check us off?

I'm atheist and have no interest in religion; but if they have official quota of talks to stop getting in trouble... I'll help them out. I can listen to nonsense for 5 mins if it makes their lives easier.
 
2014-02-05 09:36:23 AM  
I'm usually polite but don't let them waste time. I always figured the nicer thing is let them know immediately I'm not interested.
 
2014-02-05 09:37:21 AM  

Some Coke Drinking Guy: As an ex-Mormon, who is also an ex-Mormon missionary, I think that is is wonderful that someone is finally doing a serious PTSD study on them.  Being a missionary is an exercise in two years of emotional abuse.  Every second of your day is controlled through a mixture of rules and guilt.  You see, you should be baptizing hundreds of people on your mission, because the church's message is thought to be just so amazing.  Since nobody does this, or even comes anywhere near the official church goals, the blame is naturally placed on the shoulders of every teenage missionary who as ever served, rather than on the message itself.

You see, it is your fault that no one is joining God's one true church.  That time you slept in five minutes past 6am, or didn't get back until a few minutes past your 9pm curfew, you are tarnished, and no one can feel the spirit when you talk.  Oh, and let's not even talk about that time you stayed more than an hour in someones home, or didn't knock on enough doors.  You know you are supposed to knock on enough doors, so that precisely 30 people either invite you in, or tell you to go to hell.  If you only had faith, people would open the door before slamming it on your face, so that you could record them as on official statistic, rather than peep out the peep hole, before ignoring you, which you know does not count.

Then let's not forget that the only thing you are allowed to read, watch, or listen to, are scriptures and church magazine articles, church produced movies that you show to the lonely old or mentally ill people, who are the only ones who will listen to you, and CDs of the Mormon Tabernacle Choir.  And if you listen to regular music, take too long in the shower, or leave your companions sight for any reason, other than to use the restroom, the other guy will call the old man who runs the mission, and you will than be forced to listen to a lecture, about how your moral failings are keeping people from joining the church.

Oh, and do ...


I retract my previous sentiments of outrage.
 
2014-02-05 09:46:41 AM  

FLMountainMan: Can we do these headlines with Muslims too?  Or is it just Mormons?


Yes. We're all aware you're a pinheaded racist. You don't need to keep reminding us.
 
2014-02-05 09:50:38 AM  

CleanAndPure: Some Coke Drinking Guy,

So by shutting the door on their face we're getting them in trouble.

How long do we have to talk to them so they can check us off?

I'm atheist and have no interest in religion; but if they have official quota of talks to stop getting in trouble... I'll help them out. I can listen to nonsense for 5 mins if it makes their lives easier.


Oh, no, all you have to do is let them get out, "I am Elder", and most Mormon missionaries will count it as a contact.  They are, or were when I was a missionary, required to have so many door contacts a day.  You kept knocking on doors until 30 people opened it up, and looked at you.  The missionaries get in trouble if too many people refuse to answer the door.  See, in Mormonism, you are expected to be responsible for the actions of others.
 
2014-02-05 09:51:20 AM  
MRIs aren't going to show anything interesting in brain function, they only show structure.  The reporter did a poor job of reporting or understanding.  The best delineation of brain function comes from PET scans using radioactive glucose or fMRIs which look at the changes in blood flow to different areas  of the brain.

PET

www.capersonalinjurycaselawnotes.com

fMRI


www.martinos.org
 
2014-02-05 09:54:00 AM  

Some Coke Drinking Guy: As an ex-Mormon, who is also an ex-Mormon missionary, I think that is is wonderful that someone is finally doing a serious PTSD study on them.  Being a missionary is an exercise in two years of emotional abuse.  Every second of your day is controlled through a mixture of rules and guilt.  You see, you should be baptizing hundreds of people on your mission, because the church's message is thought to be just so amazing.  Since nobody does this, or even comes anywhere near the official church goals, the blame is naturally placed on the shoulders of every teenage missionary who as ever served, rather than on the message itself.

You see, it is your fault that no one is joining God's one true church.  That time you slept in five minutes past 6am, or didn't get back until a few minutes past your 9pm curfew, you are tarnished, and no one can feel the spirit when you talk.  Oh, and let's not even talk about that time you stayed more than an hour in someones home, or didn't knock on enough doors.  You know you are supposed to knock on enough doors, so that precisely 30 people either invite you in, or tell you to go to hell.  If you only had faith, people would open the door before slamming it on your face, so that you could record them as on official statistic, rather than peep out the peep hole, before ignoring you, which you know does not count.

Then let's not forget that the only thing you are allowed to read, watch, or listen to, are scriptures and church magazine articles, church produced movies that you show to the lonely old or mentally ill people, who are the only ones who will listen to you, and CDs of the Mormon Tabernacle Choir.  And if you listen to regular music, take too long in the shower, or leave your companions sight for any reason, other than to use the restroom, the other guy will call the old man who runs the mission, and you will than be forced to listen to a lecture, about how your moral failings are keeping people from joining the church.

Oh, and do ...


I've hear this exact story from a few in-laws which is why if any missionaries come knocking I politely tell them I'm not interested and invite them in for a glass of water.  Being a dick to those poor kids is just cruel.
 
2014-02-05 10:02:14 AM  

agent00pi: furterfan: PunGent:  Yeah, the Mormon belief system is weird, but no weirder than most other religions, once you drill down far enough.

As an Ex-mo, I would tend to disagree. their farked up belief system screws up people's private lives. Bishops have private, one-on-one, behind locked door interviews with male and female youth and routinely ask personal questions about masturbation and sexual activity. they take 10% of your income and - as far as I can find out - are the only religion in the world who will deny a parent seeing their children get married, unless the said parents are church members AND HAVE PAID THEIR 10%.

the. only. religion.in.the.world
who will separate friends and family from a wedding ceremony
evil, vile cult

Scientology also does that, so, you know. There's that.


as far as I know - as far as I have researched - they do not routinely act as nastily as the mormons do

please accept that I do not - in any way - endorse the idiocy of $cientology
however, as I understand it, if you are prepared to act respectfully and the $cientologists are not actively at war with you, you can go into a $cientologist wedding ceremony

in mormondum,
you can be the brides mother, be a member of the mormon church in good standing and ahave nothing but sweet thought about the mormon church...............and you will STILL not be allowed to attend the wedding ceremony sometimes for the simple reason that you couldnt stump up 10%of your income that year

it is an evil, vile - and i forgot to mention - money-grubbing religion
 
2014-02-05 10:26:32 AM  
Mormonism just strikes me as naive. I don't sense any intent at wrongdoing by Mormons.

The church leaders may be abusing those below them.


Scientology is dangerous though. Its all about money and the church leaders know full well its a scam but are actively and heinously out to ruin lives for profit.


Mormonism: Naive
Scientology: EVIL.
 
2014-02-05 10:37:36 AM  

Some Coke Drinking Guy: You see, it is your fault that no one is joining God's one true church.


*blink* Damn.

Well. Have another Coke on me, guy. You deserve it.
 
2014-02-05 10:59:18 AM  

skozlaw: FLMountainMan: Can we do these headlines with Muslims too?  Or is it just Mormons?

Yes. We're all aware you're a pinheaded racist. You don't need to keep reminding us.


Islam is a race now?  Man, I guess my pinhead didn't allow me to know that.  Good thing I have smart people like you around.
 
2014-02-05 11:11:08 AM  

Some Coke Drinking Guy: As an ex-Mormon, who is also an ex-Mormon missionary, I think that is is wonderful that someone is finally doing a serious PTSD study on them.  Being a missionary is an exercise in two years of emotional abuse.  Every second of your day is controlled through a mixture of rules and guilt.  You see, you should be baptizing hundreds of people on your mission, because the church's message is thought to be just so amazing.  Since nobody does this, or even comes anywhere near the official church goals, the blame is naturally placed on the shoulders of every teenage missionary who as ever served, rather than on the message itself.

You see, it is your fault that no one is joining God's one true church.  That time you slept in five minutes past 6am, or didn't get back until a few minutes past your 9pm curfew, you are tarnished, and no one can feel the spirit when you talk.  Oh, and let's not even talk about that time you stayed more than an hour in someones home, or didn't knock on enough doors.  You know you are supposed to knock on enough doors, so that precisely 30 people either invite you in, or tell you to go to hell.  If you only had faith, people would open the door before slamming it on your face, so that you could record them as on official statistic, rather than peep out the peep hole, before ignoring you, which you know does not count.

Then let's not forget that the only thing you are allowed to read, watch, or listen to, are scriptures and church magazine articles, church produced movies that you show to the lonely old or mentally ill people, who are the only ones who will listen to you, and CDs of the Mormon Tabernacle Choir.  And if you listen to regular music, take too long in the shower, or leave your companions sight for any reason, other than to use the restroom, the other guy will call the old man who runs the mission, and you will than be forced to listen to a lecture, about how your moral failings are keeping people from joining the church.

Oh, and do ...


Thanks for bringing these memories back up.
 
2014-02-05 11:17:13 AM  

Egoy3k: I've hear this exact story from a few in-laws which is why if any missionaries come knocking I politely tell them I'm not interested and invite them in for a glass of water.  Being a dick to those poor kids is just cruel.


It is appreciated. But the stories of crazy encounters will actually drive them. Give the kids credit- many of them really work at what they do and take the abuse in stride. Not all. I knew one guy who stole a TV and missionary car and drove to Las Vegas. I knew another one that basically never left his apartment. But these guys are celebrated by the church on return.

Ask any RM (return missionary) about culture shock. Being along when you get back is a very strange and uncomfortable feeling. I remember sitting with a girl (ex girlfriend at the time, and good friend) alone on a bench in a mall and almost crying because it felt so 'wrong'. I had been home for 1 day at that point.
 
2014-02-05 11:25:50 AM  

Some Coke Drinking Guy: As an ex-Mormon, who is also an ex-Mormon missionary, I think that is is wonderful that someone is finally doing a serious PTSD study on them.  Being a missionary is an exercise in two years of emotional abuse.  Every second of your day is controlled through a mixture of rules and guilt.  You see, you should be baptizing hundreds of people on your mission, because the church's message is thought to be just so amazing.  Since nobody does this, or even comes anywhere near the official church goals, the blame is naturally placed on the shoulders of every teenage missionary who as ever served, rather than on the message itself.

You see, it is your fault that no one is joining God's one true church.  That time you slept in five minutes past 6am, or didn't get back until a few minutes past your 9pm curfew, you are tarnished, and no one can feel the spirit when you talk.  Oh, and let's not even talk about that time you stayed more than an hour in someones home, or didn't knock on enough doors.  You know you are supposed to knock on enough doors, so that precisely 30 people either invite you in, or tell you to go to hell.  If you only had faith, people would open the door before slamming it on your face, so that you could record them as on official statistic, rather than peep out the peep hole, before ignoring you, which you know does not count.

Then let's not forget that the only thing you are allowed to read, watch, or listen to, are scriptures and church magazine articles, church produced movies that you show to the lonely old or mentally ill people, who are the only ones who will listen to you, and CDs of the Mormon Tabernacle Choir.  And if you listen to regular music, take too long in the shower, or leave your companions sight for any reason, other than to use the restroom, the other guy will call the old man who runs the mission, and you will than be forced to listen to a lecture, about how your moral failings are keeping people from joining the church.

Oh, and do ...


Fellow exmo here. Sixth generation, descended from polygamy (my polygymous ancestor, Archibald Gardner, was a confidant of Brigham Young and in Utah there is a historical site in his honor called "Gardner Village), went on a mission to Brazil, etc...

I was all shades of farked up psychologically when I came home. It would take a novel's length description of what it was like as a missionary in order to adequately convey to others why I was so damaged for a good chunk of years after.

But, hey, at least I can speak fluent Portuguese.
 
2014-02-05 11:46:41 AM  

DeArmondVI: I was all shades of farked up psychologically when I came home. It would take a novel's length description of what it was like as a missionary in order to adequately convey to others why I was so damaged for a good chunk of years after.


All religion is brainwashing and child abuse.
BUT FREEDOM OF RELIGION!!!

You dont think so? 
I love watching loving parents turn on their children when the children leave the one true faith.

/shudder
 
2014-02-05 11:54:58 AM  

Some Coke Drinking Guy: CleanAndPure: Some Coke Drinking Guy,

So by shutting the door on their face we're getting them in trouble.

How long do we have to talk to them so they can check us off?

I'm atheist and have no interest in religion; but if they have official quota of talks to stop getting in trouble... I'll help them out. I can listen to nonsense for 5 mins if it makes their lives easier.

Oh, no, all you have to do is let them get out, "I am Elder", and most Mormon missionaries will count it as a contact.  They are, or were when I was a missionary, required to have so many door contacts a day.  You kept knocking on doors until 30 people opened it up, and looked at you.  The missionaries get in trouble if too many people refuse to answer the door.  See, in Mormonism, you are expected to be responsible for the actions of others.


So what do you do after getting your "30 contacts a day." Can you go to the beach, stretch out in the sun and read the rule book? Can you go to a hotel or big apartment complex and knock on doors and blurt out "I'm an elder" as soon as someone answers and be done with it?

Once several -- maybe 15 -- young Mormons showed up at my elderly mother's house and cleaned the Bejesus outta her yard, filling about 30 bags with yard clippings and other landscaping detritus. Thanks guys!

I know this sounds flippant, but surely there are slackers in any organization. Is that why you guys pair up . . . so you have a slight fear the other guy might tattle on you?
 
2014-02-05 12:00:21 PM  
Hope they have LOTSOFDRYDFRORCP1/4LLS.
 
2014-02-05 12:04:46 PM  
Maybe science will finally find a cure for Mormons.
 
2014-02-05 12:34:22 PM  
HammerHeadSnark:

I know this sounds flippant, but surely there are slackers in any organization. Is that why you guys pair up . . . so you have a slight fear the other guy might tattle on you?

That's one of the reasons, among others. From my own experience, in addition to talking quotas (we had to strike up at least 30 conversations a day with males over 18, preferably married), we also had quotas for bringing "investigators" to church on Sundays, daily quotas for how many people we "challenged" to be baptized, and monthly a monthly quota for baptism (at least three people, one of whom being a male at least 18 years old).

We had to report our activities for the day nightly to our district leader, who would then relay that info to the zone leader, who would then report it to the assistants to the mission president. We would have weekly district meetings where we would get reamed by the disctrict leader for not meeting quotas, as well as occasional zone meeting where the zone leader would ream us for not meeting quotas, along with multi-zone meetings where the mission president and the assistants to the mission president would ream us for not meeting quotas. Oh yeah, and we would also have a one on one meeting with the mission president every two months in order to be reamed for not meeting quotas.

Also, we were only allowed to talk about "home" on Mondays from 9:30 to 5:30. That included letter writing/reading. My mission was so strict that we could only listen to hymns during the week. During our personal day, which only lasted from 9:30-5:30 on Mondays we could listen to classical music if we wanted (but not opera). Obviously, we could never watch tv, listen to radio, read a newspaper (or, for that matter, anything other than official Mormon scriptures and a whopping FIVE books apporved of by the church for missionaries to read).

So, yeah, a thousand and one rules all designed to put a young kid's sole attention and drive focused on only the religion and in meeting conversion quotas that are essentially impossible to attain.

Oh yeah, and they hold your passport for you at the mission office so that you won't "lose" it (or, perhaps, be able to get out of dodge on your own terms).
 
2014-02-05 12:51:37 PM  

DeArmondVI: HammerHeadSnark:

I know this sounds flippant, but surely there are slackers in any organization. Is that why you guys pair up . . . so you have a slight fear the other guy might tattle on you?

That's one of the reasons, among others. From my own experience, in addition to talking quotas (we had to strike up at least 30 conversations a day with males over 18, preferably married), we also had quotas for bringing "investigators" to church on Sundays, daily quotas for how many people we "challenged" to be baptized, and monthly a monthly quota for baptism (at least three people, one of whom being a male at least 18 years old).

We had to report our activities for the day nightly to our district leader, who would then relay that info to the zone leader, who would then report it to the assistants to the mission president. We would have weekly district meetings where we would get reamed by the disctrict leader for not meeting quotas, as well as occasional zone meeting where the zone leader would ream us for not meeting quotas, along with multi-zone meetings where the mission president and the assistants to the mission president would ream us for not meeting quotas. Oh yeah, and we would also have a one on one meeting with the mission president every two months in order to be reamed for not meeting quotas.

Also, we were only allowed to talk about "home" on Mondays from 9:30 to 5:30. That included letter writing/reading. My mission was so strict that we could only listen to hymns during the week. During our personal day, which only lasted from 9:30-5:30 on Mondays we could listen to classical music if we wanted (but not opera). Obviously, we could never watch tv, listen to radio, read a newspaper (or, for that matter, anything other than official Mormon scriptures and a whopping FIVE books apporved of by the church for missionaries to read).

So, yeah, a thousand and one rules all designed to put a young kid's sole attention and drive focused on only the religion and in me ...


So, no going to the beach then. Except maybe on Mondays . . . and only then to write home. In Seattle we get missionaries (from Utah, I guess). I don't believe they needed passports to get outta Dodge.

One night abut 8:30 two young guys that I was sure were missionaries asked me about bus service to their home. I pointed out to them that the nearest bus was about three miles away -- up a giant hill and down the other side. After I got home I got in my car and went looking for them to give them a ride . . . they'd disappeared. Miracle? Did someone else give them a ride -- that'd be a miracle, too? Only God knows what became of them.

Thanks for sharing your story. It was interesting. When my mom was in the hospital -- not dying, but some people thought she might be -- some Mormons came and anointed her with oil. She thought that was pretty cool.
 
2014-02-05 01:15:39 PM  

HammerHeadSnark: So, no going to the beach then. Except maybe on Mondays . . . and only then to write home. In Seattle we get missionaries (from Utah, I guess). I don't believe they needed passports to get outta Dodge.

One night abut 8:30 two young guys that I was sure were missionaries asked me about bus service to their home. I pointed out to them that the nearest bus was about three miles away -- up a giant hill and down the other side. After I got home I got in my car and went looking for them to give them a ride . . . they'd disappeared. Miracle? Did someone else give them a ride -- that'd be a miracle, too? Only God knows what became of them.

Thanks for sharing your story. It was interesting. When my mom was in the hospital -- not dying, but some people thought she might be -- some Mormons came and anointed her with oil. She thought that was pretty cool.


An official part of the rules is that missionaries aren't allowed to swim because Satan controls the water. Non missionary Mormons can swim, but because missionaries are super special agents of good, Satan allocates most of his available magic points for water spells on missionaries.

I was in Brazil for the two years I was a missionary, and never once while I was down there did I get to hit up a beach. Thankfully I returned years later as an exmormon and got to find plenty worth enjoying :  D
 
2014-02-05 01:34:04 PM  

DeArmondVI: An official part of the rules is that missionaries aren't allowed to swim because Satan controls the water. Non missionary Mormons can swim, but because missionaries are super special agents of good, Satan allocates most of his available magic points for water spells on missionaries.

I was in Brazil for the two years I was a missionary, and never once while I was down there did I get to hit up a beach. Thankfully I returned years later as an exmormon and got to find plenty worth enjoying :  D


Well, that's, uh, pretty weird, I guess. Satan working his evil powers in the water and all.

While reading your post it occurred to me that a couple of years ago when Romney was running for president I'd read about "Mormon magic underwear" that they aren't supposed to take off -- and had an interesting way of showering by continuing to stay draped in it, shifting it around so as to never be completely naked. If that is true, I can see how maybe going to the beach might be awkward.

So is the magic underwear story true? Oh, here's this: Temple Garments

Maybe as missionaries they haven't been to the temple yet . . . so nothing special in the underwear department -- yet.
 
2014-02-05 01:45:47 PM  

namatad: DeArmondVI: I was all shades of farked up psychologically when I came home. It would take a novel's length description of what it was like as a missionary in order to adequately convey to others why I was so damaged for a good chunk of years after.

All religion is brainwashing and child abuse.
BUT FREEDOM OF RELIGION!!!

You dont think so? 
I love watching loving parents turn on their children when the children leave the one true faith.

/shudder


It's rough in the other direction, too. My 8 year old came to me with THAT question last week at bedtime.

"Everyone at school knows that God exists. Does he?"

My response: "Uh, well, Virginia... I mean son... Um. People are stupi... I mean, um, they mean well. Kinda. Look, just believe what you want... I know they KNOW, and you don't. And you know I don't believe God is more real than this pillow. But don't get into any arguments, okay? Please? Just... Let it go for now, kiddo."

One of the hardest questions to answer without getting anyone in trouble, so far. :\
 
2014-02-05 02:03:09 PM  

HammerHeadSnark: DeArmondVI: An official part of the rules is that missionaries aren't allowed to swim because Satan controls the water. Non missionary Mormons can swim, but because missionaries are super special agents of good, Satan allocates most of his available magic points for water spells on missionaries.

I was in Brazil for the two years I was a missionary, and never once while I was down there did I get to hit up a beach. Thankfully I returned years later as an exmormon and got to find plenty worth enjoying :  D

Well, that's, uh, pretty weird, I guess. Satan working his evil powers in the water and all.

While reading your post it occurred to me that a couple of years ago when Romney was running for president I'd read about "Mormon magic underwear" that they aren't supposed to take off -- and had an interesting way of showering by continuing to stay draped in it, shifting it around so as to never be completely naked. If that is true, I can see how maybe going to the beach might be awkward.

So is the magic underwear story true? Oh, here's this: Temple Garments

Maybe as missionaries they haven't been to the temple yet . . . so nothing special in the underwear department -- yet.


Actually you can't go on a mission until you've been to the temple. It's a requirement. While there are a few literalists who strive to never take off their garments, most Mormons are fine with removing them for three things: recreation, sanitation, and procreation.

What's interesting about the site you linked to, is that the article was written by the More Good Foundation. While I've never heard of the group, the phrase "More Good" has a funny history. When asked what the word "Mormon" meant, Joseph Smith said that it was actually two words from Egyptian: "mon" meaning good, and "mor" which, like its English homonym, means "more." Thus, the word "Mormon" means, quite literally, "more good" in ancient Egyptian.

It is, I'm sure, of no consequence that the Rosetta Stone was not located until well after Joseph Smith was killed. I mean, prior to its discovery people could literally make up anything they wanted when it came to the ancient Egyptian language.

Apparently the More Good Foundation was started by the same guy who started JetBlue. I'm thinking of a JetBlue/Mormon apologist hybrid joke, but I got nothing. Maybe a joke will take flight in my mind a couple of hours down the road.
 
2014-02-05 02:14:44 PM  

Some Coke Drinking Guy: As an ex-Mormon, who is also an ex-Mormon missionary, I think that is is wonderful that someone is finally doing a serious PTSD study on them.  Being a missionary is an exercise in two years of emotional abuse.  Every second of your day is controlled through a mixture of rules and guilt.  You see, you should be baptizing hundreds of people on your mission, because the church's message is thought to be just so amazing.  Since nobody does this, or even comes anywhere near the official church goals, the blame is naturally placed on the shoulders of every teenage missionary who as ever served, rather than on the message itself.

You see, it is your fault that no one is joining God's one true church.  That time you slept in five minutes past 6am, or didn't get back until a few minutes past your 9pm curfew, you are tarnished, and no one can feel the spirit when you talk.  Oh, and let's not even talk about that time you stayed more than an hour in someones home, or didn't knock on enough doors.  You know you are supposed to knock on enough doors, so that precisely 30 people either invite you in, or tell you to go to hell.  If you only had faith, people would open the door before slamming it on your face, so that you could record them as on official statistic, rather than peep out the peep hole, before ignoring you, which you know does not count.

Then let's not forget that the only thing you are allowed to read, watch, or listen to, are scriptures and church magazine articles, church produced movies that you show to the lonely old or mentally ill people, who are the only ones who will listen to you, and CDs of the Mormon Tabernacle Choir.  And if you listen to regular music, take too long in the shower, or leave your companions sight for any reason, other than to use the restroom, the other guy will call the old man who runs the mission, and you will than be forced to listen to a lecture, about how your moral failings are keeping people from joining the church.

Oh, and do ...


Wow...is it really that bad?  I never thought about it from that point of view.  How long have you been out and what brought you to that decision?  Genuinely crious but I understand if you don't want to share.
 
2014-02-05 02:22:01 PM  
DeArmondVI:

We had to report our activities for the day nightly to our district leader, who would then relay that info to the zone leader, who would then report it to the assistants to the mission president. We would have weekly district meetings where we would get reamed by the disctrict leader for not meeting quotas, as well as occasional zone meeting where the zone leader would ream us for not meeting quotas, along with multi-zone meetings where the mission president and the assistants to the mission president would ream us for not meeting quotas. Oh yeah, and we would also have a one on one meeting with the mission president every two months in order to be reamed for not meeting quotas.

Did you remember to use the new cover sheet on your TPS reports?
 
2014-02-05 02:32:22 PM  

sethen320: DeArmondVI:

We had to report our activities for the day nightly to our district leader, who would then relay that info to the zone leader, who would then report it to the assistants to the mission president. We would have weekly district meetings where we would get reamed by the disctrict leader for not meeting quotas, as well as occasional zone meeting where the zone leader would ream us for not meeting quotas, along with multi-zone meetings where the mission president and the assistants to the mission president would ream us for not meeting quotas. Oh yeah, and we would also have a one on one meeting with the mission president every two months in order to be reamed for not meeting quotas.

Did you remember to use the new cover sheet on your TPS reports?


Verily, it did cause within me a great shaming that is greater than all other shamings.

It really was as absurd as it sounds. In nine days it will have been ten years for me since I came home. It's still increadibly surreal for me to remember all the nonsense that I went through. Half of the time it feels like it was all just a really bad dream.
 
2014-02-05 02:43:09 PM  

DeArmondVI: sethen320: DeArmondVI:

We had to report our activities for the day nightly to our district leader, who would then relay that info to the zone leader, who would then report it to the assistants to the mission president. We would have weekly district meetings where we would get reamed by the disctrict leader for not meeting quotas, as well as occasional zone meeting where the zone leader would ream us for not meeting quotas, along with multi-zone meetings where the mission president and the assistants to the mission president would ream us for not meeting quotas. Oh yeah, and we would also have a one on one meeting with the mission president every two months in order to be reamed for not meeting quotas.

Did you remember to use the new cover sheet on your TPS reports?

Verily, it did cause within me a great shaming that is greater than all other shamings.

It really was as absurd as it sounds. In nine days it will have been ten years for me since I came home. It's still increadibly surreal for me to remember all the nonsense that I went through. Half of the time it feels like it was all just a really bad dream.


Well, thanks for sharing.  Sorry you had to go through that.
 
2014-02-05 02:59:52 PM  

Nadie_AZ: Ask any RM (return missionary) about culture shock. Being along when you get back is a very strange and uncomfortable feeling. I remember sitting with a girl (ex girlfriend at the time, and good friend) alone on a bench in a mall and almost crying because it felt so 'wrong'. I had been home for 1 day at that point.


I've also heard that Mormon girls (the only ones a good Mormon boy should be courting) won't have anything to do with a guy who is old enough to go out on mission work, but hasn't yet.

One question- I've also heard that of each pair of missionaries, one is the "elder" in his 2nd year, and the other is always a first-year rookie.  Is there any sort of "feeling each other out" to see what they truly feel about all the BS rules and whether they should be adhered to at all, or do both of them always live in fear of the other snitching, which no real trust between them?
 
2014-02-05 03:42:06 PM  

sethen320: DeArmondVI: sethen320: DeArmondVI:

We had to report our activities for the day nightly to our district leader, who would then relay that info to the zone leader, who would then report it to the assistants to the mission president. We would have weekly district meetings where we would get reamed by the disctrict leader for not meeting quotas, as well as occasional zone meeting where the zone leader would ream us for not meeting quotas, along with multi-zone meetings where the mission president and the assistants to the mission president would ream us for not meeting quotas. Oh yeah, and we would also have a one on one meeting with the mission president every two months in order to be reamed for not meeting quotas.

Did you remember to use the new cover sheet on your TPS reports?

Verily, it did cause within me a great shaming that is greater than all other shamings.

It really was as absurd as it sounds. In nine days it will have been ten years for me since I came home. It's still increadibly surreal for me to remember all the nonsense that I went through. Half of the time it feels like it was all just a really bad dream.

Well, thanks for sharing.  Sorry you had to go through that.


Yeah, about that: he and Some Coke Drinking Guy didn't have to go through that. They voluntarily submitted their papers to Salt Lake, accepted a mission call to their mission, travelled to Provo Utah for probably 6-8 weeks of language and missionary training, may have been assigned to another mission temporarily to await their foreign travel visas, arrived at their mission home, met their mission president and his wife, and were sent to their first area.

At any time during that process, they were free to pull the plug and get back on a plane to go home.

Once they were on their mission, they had multiple contacts with district leaders, zone leaders, Assistants to the President, mission office staff and the Mission President and his wife. At any time they could have expressed the desire to leave in person to any of those people, or picked up the phone and spoken directly to the Mission president and asked to be released and sent home, and that would have been granted, a plane ticket arranged and passports handed over.

Whatever their reasons for staying and not going home are their own business, but nobody was forcing them to be there or detaining them against their will.

I feel bad for them in that after serving as a missionary 24/7 for two years, this is what they got out of it. They wasted those two years.

I had to follow the same rules, and I had a very different experience than they did.  It isn't hard to see that those rules and "quotas" are there for the people who would waste away every day without the rules. Your job as a missionary is to contact people, then teach them if they want you to. If you are out there doing your job every day, you will hit your numbers. If you are doing your job and miss your numbers, you might get a concerned call from another 19 year-old once in a while.  Big deal.

You spend two years, living among the locals, learning their language, learning their culture, making friends with people you would never encounter in your regular life, talking to people about the Atonement and the Savior Jesus Christ every day, all day long, and all you get out of it is how you had to live by so many rules.

I'm sorry you had to go through that.
 
2014-02-05 03:43:57 PM  

htomc: Nadie_AZ: Ask any RM (return missionary) about culture shock. Being along when you get back is a very strange and uncomfortable feeling. I remember sitting with a girl (ex girlfriend at the time, and good friend) alone on a bench in a mall and almost crying because it felt so 'wrong'. I had been home for 1 day at that point.

I've also heard that Mormon girls (the only ones a good Mormon boy should be courting) won't have anything to do with a guy who is old enough to go out on mission work, but hasn't yet.

One question- I've also heard that of each pair of missionaries, one is the "elder" in his 2nd year, and the other is always a first-year rookie.  Is there any sort of "feeling each other out" to see what they truly feel about all the BS rules and whether they should be adhered to at all, or do both of them always live in fear of the other snitching, which no real trust between them?


Senior and junior companions. At least where I was it never even occured to question the rules. I was a die-hard, gung-ho, read the Book of Mormon six times, Holy Bible start to finish two times (also read the New Testament solo two additional times), the D&C twice as well as every General Conference talk by a member of the First Presidency or Apostle from 1988-2001. If anybody fed me signals, my defenses were so strong that I never noticed.

Fundamentalism is a helluva drug.
 
2014-02-05 03:47:12 PM  

DeArmondVI: htomc: Nadie_AZ: Ask any RM (return missionary) about culture shock. Being along when you get back is a very strange and uncomfortable feeling. I remember sitting with a girl (ex girlfriend at the time, and good friend) alone on a bench in a mall and almost crying because it felt so 'wrong'. I had been home for 1 day at that point.

I've also heard that Mormon girls (the only ones a good Mormon boy should be courting) won't have anything to do with a guy who is old enough to go out on mission work, but hasn't yet.

One question- I've also heard that of each pair of missionaries, one is the "elder" in his 2nd year, and the other is always a first-year rookie.  Is there any sort of "feeling each other out" to see what they truly feel about all the BS rules and whether they should be adhered to at all, or do both of them always live in fear of the other snitching, which no real trust between them?

Senior and junior companions. At least where I was it never even occured to question the rules. I was a die-hard, gung-ho, read the Book of Mormon six times, Holy Bible start to finish two times (also read the New Testament solo two additional times), the D&C twice as well as every General Conference talk by a member of the First Presidency or Apostle from 1988-2001. If anybody fed me signals, my defenses were so strong that I never noticed.

Fundamentalism is a helluva drug.


Addendum: that was what I read before leaving. My training center companion (an Idaho trust fund brat) had never even read the Book of Mormon prior to gettinng shipped of to proclaim its message.
 
2014-02-05 03:53:58 PM  

Mr_Crink: sethen320: DeArmondVI: sethen320: DeArmondVI:

We had to report our activities for the day nightly to our district leader, who would then relay that info to the zone leader, who would then report it to the assistants to the mission president. We would have weekly district meetings where we would get reamed by the disctrict leader for not meeting quotas, as well as occasional zone meeting where the zone leader would ream us for not meeting quotas, along with multi-zone meetings where the mission president and the assistants to the mission president would ream us for not meeting quotas. Oh yeah, and we would also have a one on one meeting with the mission president every two months in order to be reamed for not meeting quotas.

Did you remember to use the new cover sheet on your TPS reports?

Verily, it did cause within me a great shaming that is greater than all other shamings.

It really was as absurd as it sounds. In nine days it will have been ten years for me since I came home. It's still increadibly surreal for me to remember all the nonsense that I went through. Half of the time it feels like it was all just a really bad dream.

Well, thanks for sharing.  Sorry you had to go through that.

Yeah, about that: he and Some Coke Drinking Guy didn't have to go through that. They voluntarily submitted their papers to Salt Lake, accepted a mission call to their mission, travelled to Provo Utah for probably 6-8 weeks of language and missionary training, may have been assigned to another mission temporarily to await their foreign travel visas, arrived at their mission home, met their mission president and his wife, and were sent to their first area.

At any time during that process, they were free to pull the plug and get back on a plane to go home.

Once they were on their mission, they had multiple contacts with district leaders, zone leaders, Assistants to the President, mission office staff and the Mission President and his wife. At any time they could have expressed ...


It's not an idictment of Mormonism or even religion, but I think it's entirely possible that every organization has bad eggs and they probably managed to find a few.  For whatever reason they were made to feel guilty, intensely guilty trying to live up to the standards which were set.  Yes, they may have been "free to leave", but if you believe completely that you'll burn in hell for doing so, just how free are you?

I don't doubt that you had a great experience as much as I don't doubt they had a miserable one.  So I am still sorry they had to go through that.  Likewise I'm happy you got something positive from what you did.
 
2014-02-05 04:14:07 PM  

Mr_Crink: sethen320: DeArmondVI: sethen320: DeArmondVI:

We had to report our activities for the day nightly to our district leader, who would then relay that info to the zone leader, who would then report it to the assistants to the mission president. We would have weekly district meetings where we would get reamed by the disctrict leader for not meeting quotas, as well as occasional zone meeting where the zone leader would ream us for not meeting quotas, along with multi-zone meetings where the mission president and the assistants to the mission president would ream us for not meeting quotas. Oh yeah, and we would also have a one on one meeting with the mission president every two months in order to be reamed for not meeting quotas.

Did you remember to use the new cover sheet on your TPS reports?

Verily, it did cause within me a great shaming that is greater than all other shamings.

It really was as absurd as it sounds. In nine days it will have been ten years for me since I came home. It's still increadibly surreal for me to remember all the nonsense that I went through. Half of the time it feels like it was all just a really bad dream.

Well, thanks for sharing.  Sorry you had to go through that.

Yeah, about that: he and Some Coke Drinking Guy didn't have to go through that. They voluntarily submitted their papers to Salt Lake, accepted a mission call to their mission, travelled to Provo Utah for probably 6-8 weeks of language and missionary training, may have been assigned to another mission temporarily to await their foreign travel visas, arrived at their mission home, met their mission president and his wife, and were sent to their first area.

At any time during that process, they were free to pull the plug and get back on a plane to go home.

Once they were on their mission, they had multiple contacts with district leaders, zone leaders, Assistants to the President, mission office staff and the Mission President and his wife. At any time they could have expressed ...


Mr. Crink is right, as far as he goes. It's been over 20 years since I got back and I still look at those 2 years as some of the best of my life. It's a unique experience to have two years without having to worry about money for food, a place to live, etc. and focus on self improvement.

It's completely voluntary, and I know 3 people right off the top of my head that came home early voluntarily. I'd imagine there could be some serious guilt associated with that though, so I'm not trying to paint it like calling your mission president and telling him you're done (let alone your parents) would be easy to do.

My experience tracked exactly with what I was taught, though who knows what role expectations have to play? I consistently exceeded the goals laid out by the leadership when I was closely following the rules, and consistently failed to hit those exact same marks when I was less diligent. Overall the experience was tremendous and I'm excited that my son is talking about going when he's old enough.

There are certainly some regrets, but they mostly have to do with the times I wasn't giving it my all. Don't get me wrong, I don't regret sneaking out to see the new Batman movie, or listening to my very talented companion play Nirvana songs on his guitar. That was all part of the experience that I am grateful for. On the other hand the time I spent sitting on a couch watching TV still bothers me.

It really sucks to hear from people like DeArmondVI that had such poor experiences and whose time was focused on "quotas" rather than self improvement. I'm convinced that outside of the individual missionary's background the Mission President really is the biggest factor in what type of experience a missionary has. Any conversations that I had with leadership when I wasn't hitting goals always focused on helping me improve as a person. I was never made to feel inferior or guilty. Even when I got physical with a girl in complete violation of mission rules the Mission President was understanding, though I never felt for a second that he approved or it was ok. I stayed in the field (in a different city) and had continued success for the rest of my mission.

Each experience is unique, and I wouldn't presume to minimize the negative impact it had on DeArmondVI, but it simply wasn't that way for me.

I'd love to see the results of any scientific research on returning missionaries. It's fascinating to consider the idea that there might be biological changes that result from religious experience/belief.

Honestly though, now that I'm thinking about it, it seems silly to think there WOULDN'T be some kind of measurable biological effect.
 
2014-02-05 04:20:13 PM  

Mr_Crink: Yeah, about that: he and Some Coke Drinking Guy didn't have to go through that. They voluntarily submitted their papers to Salt Lake, accepted a mission call to their mission, travelled to Provo Utah for probably 6-8 weeks of language and missionary training, may have been assigned to another mission temporarily to await their foreign travel visas, arrived at their mission home, met their mission president and his wife, and were sent to their first area.

At any time during that process, they were free to pull the plug and get back on a plane to go home.


Since I have the day off, here is "story time" for you, Elder Crink. I grew up in Cleveland, where the church is near non-existant. I had to struggle every day to try to not get my ass kicked at school for being the weird Mormon kid. But I believed in it, I stuck with it, I even memorized all six discussions in English before even sending in my paperwork. And I believed in the whole thing while I was on my mission. I had a complete nervous breakdown while serving. It was so bad that I thought I might be going crazy (my family has a history of mental illness and I thought that I was losing my grip). You see, when you are promised by the mission president that you will find those ready to be baptized if you are worthy, you will be able to reach every quota number without fail each month if you follow the rules to the letter (and spirit), and then have a six month dry spell only to be castigated by every leader up the chain of command for being a sinner, it breaks you. I did everything, and more, that was asked of me. Here's the thing: you cannot hold Party A accountable for the choices made via free will of Party B. I was yelled at, mocked, and derided because others chose not to partake of what I had to share.

I still believed in everything when I came home. I never wanted to leave the Church. I never even entertained the notion that the whole thing was built on a foundation of lies. It took years of therapy and several suicide attempts before I began to understand where my depression was coming from. If the pre-packaged Mormon life works great for you, then I am glad you are part of something that brings you happiness in life. It didn't work for me, even though I desperately wanted it to.

My family is six generations deep, and I am the black sheep of my entire extended family (read: apostate; not merely inactive). Every single person that I grew up with in my home ward (save one) has not even bothered one iota to show any of the love or kindness shown to me before I stopped hanging out at the club house. I am now a non-person to them.

Here's the thing with abuse, a lot of the times the victim is unable to even recognize the abuse until years later. My bitterness and anger over what happened to me during the mission experience didn't even begin until I lost my will to live. Thankfully, I've gotten through my issues and have been able to move forward in life. I don't care to disuade anybody from what brings them happiness, but I also don't mind sharing parts of my story when it seems appropriate.

For what it's worth, I did love being in Brazil. I'm still friends with many of those in my MTC district and they (unlike my home ward) actually appreciate me for me, not for my membership status (or lack thereof). I'm also still close to many that I converted, though more than a few of them also no longer care for the church (not through any effort of my behalf, mind you).
 
2014-02-05 08:32:50 PM  
www.lunatim.com
 
2014-02-05 08:51:39 PM  
The control group got to watch 'The Blond that Ate Milwaukee'
 
2014-02-05 09:11:01 PM  

Mr_Crink: Yeah, about that: he and Some Coke Drinking Guy didn't have to go through that. They voluntarily submitted their papers to Salt Lake, accepted a mission call to their mission, travelled to Provo Utah for probably 6-8 weeks of language and missionary training, may have been assigned to another mission temporarily to await their foreign travel visas, arrived at their mission home, met their mission president and his wife, and were sent to their first area.

At any time during that process, they were free to pull the plug and get back on a plane to go home.

Once they were on their mission, they had multiple contacts with district leaders, zone leaders, Assistants to the President, mission office staff and the Mission President and his wife. At any time they could have expressed the desire to leave in person to any of those people, or picked up the phone and spoken directly to the Mission president and asked to be released and sent home, and that would have been granted, a plane ticket arranged and passports handed over.

Whatever their reasons for staying and not going home are their own business, but nobody was forcing them to be there or detaining them against their will.

I feel bad for them in that after serving as a missionary 24/7 for two years, this is what they got out of it. They wasted those two years.

I had to follow the same rules, and I had a very different experience than they did. It isn't hard to see that those rules and "quotas" are there for the people who would waste away every day without the rules. Your job as a missionary is to contact people, then teach them if they want you to. If you are out there doing your job every day, you will hit your numbers. If you are doing your job and miss your numbers, you might get a concerned call from another 19 year-old once in a while. Big deal.

You spend two years, living among the locals, learning their language, learning their culture, making friends with people you would never encounter in ...


This.

I had some of the worst experiences of my life on my mission.  Dealing with those things not only helped me grow up, but relate to people who were not members of my church better.  I thought about going home constantly for the first few months, and I knew some who did.  This was entirely voluntary for everyone.
 
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