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(Huffington Post)   Baba Wawa defends Woody Allen. Ya know, I was jus' sittin' here on Fark when this story came up and aw jeez, there I go and drop my pencil   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 141
    More: Followup, Woody Allen, Barbara Walters, Dylan Farrow, jeez, Sherri Shepherd, Jenny McCarthy  
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2419 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 04 Feb 2014 at 12:10 PM (34 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-02-04 02:01:22 PM

LikeALeafOnTheWind: stay_classy_pdx: "I have rarely seen a father as sensitive and as loving and as caring as Woody is," she said.

In my line of work, I have to deal with child sex abuse accusations.  Barbara's above description of Woody could be used to describe every one of the chi-mo's I have to deal with, especially the most prolific ones.  Not saying this means that Woody is a chi-mo, just saying that Barbara's-- or anyone's-- anecdotal evidence of Woody being a "good guy" means absolutely nothing.

Genuinely curious, what are your thoughts on false allegations? Never happens? sometimes happens?


I certainly don't have any expert knowledge of this.  I usually deal with abuse that allegedly occurred many years ago.  When considering whether allegations are false, I think an important distinction should be made between allegations of long-ago abuse made by an adult, and allegations of recent abuse made by a child.  The former situation raises questions of validity and secondary gain (why are you bringing this up now?), but there are certainly valid reasons for a victim to remain silent for decades  (Although many psychs think "repressed memory" syndrome is B.S.).  For the latter situation, there are certainly well publicized instances of false accusations (McMartin Preschool), and those usually involve adult meddling.  I've talked to many psychs that have said kids don't usually make this stuff up on their own.

The bottom line is that child sexual abuse is way more common than you think, and the vast majority of abuse goes unreported.  And, there is no "profile" for a child molester (other than "male").   Also, we're never going to know the truth about Woody.  The fact that he hooked up with Soon Yi when she was 17 or 19 doesn't mean he's a chi-mo, and the fact that Mia Farrow is loony doesn't mean he's not.
 
2014-02-04 02:03:45 PM

farkeruk: Between a number of interviews in a short period of time, people shouldn't be "yes he did that" then "no he didn't" then "yes he did" about major facts. It's not how people who are telling the truth behave. It's a sign of someone who is lying or coached because they make mistakes in retelling the story


I am by no means an expert, nor claim to be one.

But kids say all sorts of shiat, especially when scared, and I imagine that is a scary situation.


/the sketchy video does more to sway m,e it is BS then what she said over interviews.
//no simple answer here, anybody who thinks so is full fo shiat.
 
2014-02-04 02:07:17 PM

Far Cough: Ugh, I finally went and read the Dylan letter in the NY Times. The celebrity callouts were only a small part of it. How can anyone read that and NOT believe that she is sincere?


She may be sincere and still wrong.

Whether she's sincere or not, I have no idea. I can imagine either version being true. What the letter did tell me is how consumed she still is with whatever happened that she basically wants Hollywood to blacklist Allen.
 
2014-02-04 02:07:28 PM

Far Cough: farkeruk: Far Cough: They forgot the 3rd hypothesis, of course, which is that she told the truth but didn't accurately recount every last detail in court reporter fashion.  Apparently, with this suspicion growing in his mind (to the point he discarded her story), he didn't even ASK the little girl if she had been coached or if she were making it up?

It's not about "accurately recounting in court reporter fashion". Between a number of interviews in a short period of time, people shouldn't be "yes he did that" then "no he didn't" then "yes he did" about major facts. It's not how people who are telling the truth behave. It's a sign of someone who is lying or coached because they make mistakes in retelling the story.

She

was

seven.

Is she still making mistakes and being coached?  Or is she, just maybe, telling the truth.  Chillingly, only Allen's new kids may be able to corroborate.


Sorry if we choose to believe people trained to catch these types of things rather than someone on fark who insists hes guilty with very little proof.

Maybe shes speaking out since when shes 18 a cash flow gets cut off? Just a thought since everyone seems to be wondering what she has to gain from it, Im wondering when the book is coming out, I bet its announced in the next 6 months and maybe even around oscar night.
 
2014-02-04 02:08:49 PM

liam76: Fano: Now, you can choose to believe a Penthouse Letter if you like, but it sounds like there are substantial problems with the story

There are, but not from that letter.

That isn't to say I would bet he did it, but the guy, at the very least, is a creep.


I agree that he is a creep who makes my skin crawl. I mostly respond here to the "if you don't believe that he is a total repeat pedophile, you must be a moron" line I keep seeing. It seems based more on emotion than anything else. Put it back into a prosecutor's hands again, charge him, rather than write nasty letters to the paper.
 
2014-02-04 02:11:32 PM
Pedophilia, where the accusation is the evidence.

It sucks, but maybe if every human being was truthful about such a serious offense, particularly in Hollywood -- we wouldn't have to consider the possibility of the victim simply being coached or wanting money for doing nothing.

I'm not saying she was or wasn't abused, I'm saying that I don't know and noone else does either. But she wouldn't be the first person to 'come clean' in an attempt to get money from her mark or from a book deal with the media who similarly goes with 'the accusation is the evidence'.
 
2014-02-04 02:12:49 PM

stay_classy_pdx: The fact that he hooked up with Soon Yi when she was 17 or 19 doesn't mean he's a chi-mo, and the fact that Mia Farrow is loony doesn't mean he's not.


Wait just one second here. That's a violation. On fark one must take a stand - when it comes to sensationalistic tabloid allegations posters are required to vociferously state what they know to be the truth and shout down everyone else who does not agree. So which is it? Is Mia a manipulative bitter loon or is woody a molester?
 
2014-02-04 02:15:46 PM

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: Far Cough: How can you so blithely discount her pain and her account?

Not blithely, but one account from a particularly iffy situation?


One account?  It's THE account, HER account.  Who else was in the farking attic but him?  The "situation" is only "iffy" if you don't believe this grown woman claiming sexual molestation.

His entire body of work, not really flattering to himself so perhaps reasonably honest, shows a fairly lecherous attraction to grown women. And I wouldn't call a taller-than-Allen Hemingway a little girl, at least not for pedophilic purposes.

So his recurring film fascination with power over underage girls doesn't in any way indicate he likes power over underage girls?  This is the defense?

Not saying Allen's innocent, but I haven't seen enough to convict him in my mind of such a horrible crime.

So you're saying she's a filthy liar, because he makes movies.  This guy marries his own daughter after a series of strange relationships, eyewitnesses tell of how he fawned over Dylan while ignoring the other kids, and now this grown woman is telling you he molested her, but that's not enough.

(Sorry for the bolding, but Fark seems to mangle things when multiquoting.)
 
2014-02-04 02:19:06 PM

PleaseHamletDon'tHurtEm: Baba Yaga?


Nice one.
 
2014-02-04 02:19:20 PM

JohnBigBootay: stay_classy_pdx: The fact that he hooked up with Soon Yi when she was 17 or 19 doesn't mean he's a chi-mo, and the fact that Mia Farrow is loony doesn't mean he's not.

Wait just one second here. That's a violation. On fark one must take a stand - when it comes to sensationalistic tabloid allegations posters are required to vociferously state what they know to be the truth and shout down everyone else who does not agree. So which is it? Is Mia a manipulative bitter loon or is woody a molester?


I refuse to participate in a witch hunt based entirely on conjecture.

/ he totally did it....
 
2014-02-04 02:20:01 PM

Far Cough: So his recurring film fascination with power over underage girls doesn't in any way indicate he likes power over underage girls? This is the defense?


Wait wait wait. When did he remake Lolita?

Get it right:
www.quickmeme.com
 
2014-02-04 02:21:21 PM

Far Cough: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: Far Cough: How can you so blithely discount her pain and her account?

Not blithely, but one account from a particularly iffy situation?

One account?  It's THE account, HER account.  Who else was in the farking attic but him?  The "situation" is only "iffy" if you don't believe this grown woman claiming sexual molestation.

His entire body of work, not really flattering to himself so perhaps reasonably honest, shows a fairly lecherous attraction to grown women. And I wouldn't call a taller-than-Allen Hemingway a little girl, at least not for pedophilic purposes.

So his recurring film fascination with power over underage girls doesn't in any way indicate he likes power over underage girls?  This is the defense?

Not saying Allen's innocent, but I haven't seen enough to convict him in my mind of such a horrible crime.

So you're saying she's a filthy liar, because he makes movies.  This guy marries his own daughter after a series of strange relationships, eyewitnesses tell of how he fawned over Dylan while ignoring the other kids, and now this grown woman is telling you he molested her, but that's not enough.

(Sorry for the bolding, but Fark seems to mangle things when multiquoting.)


Perhaps you're thinking of another Woody Allen. In any case, your hysterical blasting of strawmen and misinformation doesn't help your case.

"Upset" is not evidence.
 
2014-02-04 02:22:12 PM

stay_classy_pdx: I refuse to participate in a witch hunt based entirely on conjecture.


If you refuse to participate in a witch hunt based entirely on conjecture, then that means you support pedophilia and want to see little kids sexually abused and probably drown puppies for your own sick amusement.

The internet white knight brigade does not take kindly to people with common sense when emotion-based logic is on the playing field. You must vehemently be part of the mob mentality regardless of gray areas, deceptions, or truths -- or you are a kiddie diddler defender.
 
2014-02-04 02:22:49 PM
Consider these following things.

The then 15 yr old son Moses, was present when Allen supposedly molested his then 7 yr old sister.  For years he was estranged from Allen, now it's just the opposite, he's estranged from Farrow and has re-established his relationship with Allen and has been publicly quoted, on film, that there "was a lot of brainwashing going on in the house at the time."

Two nannies who were present that day both denied that such events could have happened and one quit Farrow's employment not much later and one was later quoted as saying she regretted lying about Allen after Farrow asked her to lie to back her story up.  That same nanny, who worked for Farrow told police that Dylan was never out of her sight for more than 5 minutes and contrary to what Farrow claimed, that Dylan's underwear were never missing.

Farrow's actions (upon supposedly learning of the molestation that day):  Did she immediately take the child to the hospital/doctor?  Did she call the police?    NO, she sat the child down with a video camera and over the course of the day had her tell the story.  The video had very obvious stops and starts, especially when Dylan wouldn't give the response that was obviously wanted.

Farrow did take the girl to a doctor later that day and then again 4 day's later.   The girl did not respond to the questions the first Dr. asked about what had happened (she would only shrug her shoulders) and NEITHER Dr. found a single injury to her vagina or anus that would indicate penetration of either.

As to Dylan's "memories" of what happened:  I would suggest you read about what went down in Kern County, CA back in the 80's*.  I would also advise you to read about the thousands of men who were charged and many convicted of child sexual abuse based on the "recovered memories" of their supposed victims, (who were adults by the time they testified.)   Nearly every single one of those convictions have been tossed as the courts found that there was no scientific evidence supporting their veracity.

In Kern County, there were dozens upon dozens of children (most between the ages of 4-10) who were convinced by a rogue sheriff's deputy and a county "social worker" that they had been victims of ritual satanic sexual abuse by their parents and parent's acquaintances.   More than 60 children testified, and 36 adults ended up in prison as a result.  Ultimately (even though it took decades in a few instances) all of the convictions were overturned, except for the two unfortunate souls who died in prison who couldn't clear their names prior to their deaths.

None of what the children had been convinced had happened to them had actually occurred. Rather was a number of implanted, false memories put there by the social worker and sheriff's deputy who convinced the kids that it had happened, they just were not good at remembering it. (Watch the tapes of the "therapy sessions" happening if you can find them online. It's downright chilling how easily kids can be lead to believe that the most horrible things one can imagine not only happened, but the children were part of it happening.  After an hour or two, the kids are absolutely convinced.)

In a documentary film on the Kern County fiasco that aired on PBS a few years back, several of the kids who were by now adults in their mid 30's, still were convinced that their parents were guilty.  This even after there was an incredible amount of evidence that the kid's stories in no way matched up in logic or fact to what was even physically possible.  So, why couldn't one conclude that Dylan Farrow could be absolutely "telling the truth" as it is implanted in her mind, while simultaneously recalling events which actually have no basis in reality?
 
2014-02-04 02:28:35 PM

Uzzah: Cletus C.: I enjoyed Bananas, so it is unlikely Woody Allen is a child molester.

I didn't like "Sleeper," so he definitely sodomized Dylan Farrow with a fire extinguisher.


Among other crimes and misdemeanors? I enjoyed Diane Keaton's characterizations in the '70s only because I've found ditzy faux-intellectual women of that type the easiest to talk into the sack.

Having encountered Ms. Keaton in the street once, I suspect her acting draws from a deep well of ditz. But she was also pretty hot if you like that sort. Allen must have thought he'd hit the jackpot.
 
2014-02-04 02:32:29 PM
A few more things to consider:

Mia Farrow is one of Roman Polanski's closest friends.  Let that sink in for a minute.  Farrow tells the world that Woody Allen is the most vile and retched person on the face of the Earth, but she was one of the people signing and supporting the "Justice for Polanski" petition that was circulated a few years back.  She has visited him in Europe and in 2005 she flew to London and testified on his behalf in a libel suit about whether he had or had not groped a woman in a restaurant around the time of the Sharon Tate murder.

She was publicly critical of the Golden Globes giving Allen an award (her and son Ronan were twittering hard on that occasion), which included a video montage of Allen's work, among the video were a number of scenes from his movies featuring Mia Farrow.  The Golden Globe's people had approached her prior the show and she had voluntarily given them written permission to use her image as part of the video montage.   Now, thing about that one for a minute.   She thought they were the worse people on the planet for giving him the award, but she made damned sure that she got herself mentioned and clips of her performing included as part of the award.

Kind of reminds me of the old joke about the two women complaining about the restaurant: 1st woman:  I don't know why we come here, the food is so lousy?  2nd woman, Yes and the portions are so small!
 
2014-02-04 02:32:38 PM

Far Cough:   This guy marries his own daughter


Sigh.
For the last time, Soon-Yi Previn, is not, and never was, Allen's daughter (or stepdaughter, or adopted daughter/stepdaughter). She is the (adopted) daughter of Mia Farrow and her then-husband, Andre Previn. Allen had no paternal relationship with her; in fact they had virtually no contact at all until she was about 17, and only because Mia encouraged him to do so. Yes, dumping your girlfriend to take up with her (adult) daughter is a dick move, but that does not make him a pedophile.
 
2014-02-04 02:40:04 PM

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: Far Cough: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: Far Cough: How can you so blithely discount her pain and her account?

Not blithely, but one account from a particularly iffy situation?

One account?  It's THE account, HER account.  Who else was in the farking attic but him?  The "situation" is only "iffy" if you don't believe this grown woman claiming sexual molestation.

His entire body of work, not really flattering to himself so perhaps reasonably honest, shows a fairly lecherous attraction to grown women. And I wouldn't call a taller-than-Allen Hemingway a little girl, at least not for pedophilic purposes.

So his recurring film fascination with power over underage girls doesn't in any way indicate he likes power over underage girls?  This is the defense?

Not saying Allen's innocent, but I haven't seen enough to convict him in my mind of such a horrible crime.

So you're saying she's a filthy liar, because he makes movies.  This guy marries his own daughter after a series of strange relationships, eyewitnesses tell of how he fawned over Dylan while ignoring the other kids, and now this grown woman is telling you he molested her, but that's not enough.

(Sorry for the bolding, but Fark seems to mangle things when multiquoting.)

Perhaps you're thinking of another Woody Allen. In any case, your hysterical blasting of strawmen and misinformation doesn't help your case.

"Upset" is not evidence.


What a coincidence.  NY Magazine just wrote an article just for you.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/02/woody-allen-and-young-g ir ls-a-history.html?mid=google


I mean, if I was caught in a love nest with 15 12-year-old girls tomorrow, people would think, yeah, I always knew that about him." Allen pauses. "Nothing I could come up with would surprise anyone," he ventures helplessly. "I admit to it all."

"It's as if, like the picture of Dorian Grey, Allen's films served as his conscience, leaving him free to misbehave in three dimensions," wrote Phoebe Hoban in New York almost 22 years ago. "All those elbow-nudging jokes about child molestation (the subject pops up in at least four of his films) and the permutations of sex with 16-year-old twins don't seem quite so funny anymore."
 
2014-02-04 02:41:57 PM
puckrock2000

You would think the fact her surname was "PREVIN" might clue in even the mouth breathers to that fact, but alas, apparently not.

BTW, she didn't even live with Mia, much less Woody (the other "factoid" I keep seeing flung around without regard to veracity.)   She lived with her dad Andre, as Mia had basically abandoned him and their kids and moved into her own place.

According to Mia's own words on the topic, Soon Yi only met Allen on 3 brief occasions in her life prior to her turning 19.  That is when Mia herself encouraged the now adult Soon Yi and Allen to spend some time together.

Here's the other accusation that keeps making the rounds:  Soon Yi was either very mentally/emotionally unbalanced or borderline retarded and thus Allen took advantage of that fact.  Soon Yi was a couple of years into college at Columbia at the time they met and graduated on time.  There's been no sign of any kind of emotional or mental instability made public in all of this time.  You would think if there had been one of the tabloids would have picked up on it.
 
2014-02-04 02:42:28 PM

lawboy87: Consider these following things.

The then 15 yr old son Moses, was present when Allen supposedly molested his then 7 yr old sister.  For years he was estranged from Allen, now it's just the opposite, he's estranged from Farrow and has re-established his relationship with Allen and has been publicly quoted, on film, that there "was a lot of brainwashing going on in the house at the time."

Two nannies who were present that day both denied that such events could have happened and one quit Farrow's employment not much later and one was later quoted as saying she regretted lying about Allen after Farrow asked her to lie to back her story up.  That same nanny, who worked for Farrow told police that Dylan was never out of her sight for more than 5 minutes and contrary to what Farrow claimed, that Dylan's underwear were never missing.

Farrow's actions (upon supposedly learning of the molestation that day):  Did she immediately take the child to the hospital/doctor?  Did she call the police?    NO, she sat the child down with a video camera and over the course of the day had her tell the story.  The video had very obvious stops and starts, especially when Dylan wouldn't give the response that was obviously wanted.

Farrow did take the girl to a doctor later that day and then again 4 day's later.   The girl did not respond to the questions the first Dr. asked about what had happened (she would only shrug her shoulders) and NEITHER Dr. found a single injury to her vagina or anus that would indicate penetration of either.

As to Dylan's "memories" of what happened:  I would suggest you read about what went down in Kern County, CA back in the 80's*.  ...



QFT

This is a witch hunt based on the claims of a woman who-- by all accounts-- was an angry, cheating, manipulative, flaky, controlling, brainwashing bag of crazypants  after Woody left her, in the midst of a custody battle.

This is a woman who, at 21, stole her previous 50-year-old husband (Soon-Yi's actual adoptive father. The guy who actually raised her.) from another woman in a very devious manner. This is a woman who cheated on Woody Allen in the middle of their relationship (they were never married) with a 71-year-old Frank Sinatra, and then LIED to Allen by telling him the child was his. This is a woman who, by every reputable account, coached Dylan into making claims against Woody, and who very likely planted the idea in Dylan's head so firmly that she cannot separate truth from fiction.

If anyone in this scenario is guilty of abusing children, it's Mia.  Mental abuse is still abuse.

That said, I love her as an actress and I admire her as an activist, but let us hold no illusions: She's nutty, and she hates Woody Allen for jilting her.

One more thing: Mia has always firmly supported Roman Polanski, who actually DID have sex with a 13-year-old and then fled the country to avoid punishment. Nobody-- not even Roman himself-- disputes these facts.
 
2014-02-04 02:45:31 PM

Far Cough: They forgot the 3rd hypothesis, of course, which is that she told the truth but didn't accurately recount every last detail in court reporter fashion.  Apparently, with this suspicion growing in his mind (to the point he discarded her story), he didn't even ASK the little girl if she had been coached or if she were making it up?


...which in no way would backfire on him or make him look like an asshole for forcing a 7-year-old girl to relive potentially awful memories one more time, just to "make sure" she wasn't coached.  And of course, she would immediately tell him if she was being coached or lying if asked, even under oath.
 
2014-02-04 02:47:58 PM

Far Cough: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: Far Cough: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: Far Cough: How can you so blithely discount her pain and her account?

Not blithely, but one account from a particularly iffy situation?

One account?  It's THE account, HER account.  Who else was in the farking attic but him?  The "situation" is only "iffy" if you don't believe this grown woman claiming sexual molestation.

His entire body of work, not really flattering to himself so perhaps reasonably honest, shows a fairly lecherous attraction to grown women. And I wouldn't call a taller-than-Allen Hemingway a little girl, at least not for pedophilic purposes.

So his recurring film fascination with power over underage girls doesn't in any way indicate he likes power over underage girls?  This is the defense?

Not saying Allen's innocent, but I haven't seen enough to convict him in my mind of such a horrible crime.

So you're saying she's a filthy liar, because he makes movies.  This guy marries his own daughter after a series of strange relationships, eyewitnesses tell of how he fawned over Dylan while ignoring the other kids, and now this grown woman is telling you he molested her, but that's not enough.

(Sorry for the bolding, but Fark seems to mangle things when multiquoting.)

Perhaps you're thinking of another Woody Allen. In any case, your hysterical blasting of strawmen and misinformation doesn't help your case.

"Upset" is not evidence.

What a coincidence.  NY Magazine just wrote an article just for you.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/02/woody-allen-and-young-g ir ls-a-history.html?mid=google


I mean, if I was caught in a love nest with 15 12-year-old girls tomorrow, people would think, yeah, I always knew that about him." Allen pauses. "Nothing I could come up with would surprise anyone," he ventures helplessly. "I admit to it all."

"It's as if, like the picture of Dorian Grey, Allen's films served as his conscience, leaving him free to misbehave in three dimensions," wrote Phoebe Hoban ...


Well, you should be prepared to file an Amicus brief against the Venture Brothers writers, who have had whole seasons of pedophile jokes and a SYMPATHETIC serial child rapist. Why, they must secretly also be kiddy fiddlers.
 
2014-02-04 02:50:49 PM
"What's your favorite Woody Allen movie? Before you answer, you should know: when I was seven years old, Woody Allen took me by the hand and led me into a dim, closet-like attic on the second floor of our house. He told me to lay on my stomach and play with my brother's electric train set. Then he sexually assaulted me. He talked to me while he did it, whispering that I was a good girl, that this was our secret, promising that we'd go to Paris and I'd be a star in his movies. I remember staring at that toy train, focusing on it as it traveled in its circle around the attic. To this day, I find it difficult to look at toy trains."

i don't know what to tell you people defending Woody.  That is a grown-ass woman telling you she was sexually assaulted.

Is it fantasy?  some fake, implanted memory? perhaps, but a grown woman telling you that should hold some weight.
 
2014-02-04 02:55:40 PM

lawboy87: A few more things to consider:

Mia Farrow is one of Roman Polanski's closest friends.  Let that sink in for a minute.  Farrow tells the world that Woody Allen is the most vile and retched person on the face of the Earth, but she was one of the people signing and supporting the "Justice for Polanski" petition that was circulated a few years back.  She has visited him in Europe and in 2005 she flew to London and testified on his behalf in a libel suit about whether he had or had not groped a woman in a restaurant around the time of the Sharon Tate murder.

She was publicly critical of the Golden Globes giving Allen an award (her and son Ronan were twittering hard on that occasion), which included a video montage of Allen's work, among the video were a number of scenes from his movies featuring Mia Farrow.  The Golden Globe's people had approached her prior the show and she had voluntarily given them written permission to use her image as part of the video montage.   Now, thing about that one for a minute.   She thought they were the worse people on the planet for giving him the award, but she made damned sure that she got herself mentioned and clips of her performing included as part of the award.

Kind of reminds me of the old joke about the two women complaining about the restaurant: 1st woman:  I don't know why we come here, the food is so lousy?  2nd woman, Yes and the portions are so small!


I get it. You hate Mia Farrow. Do you also hate the woman who says Allen molested and terrorized her repeatedly when she was a child? Because that's where we are with this.
 
2014-02-04 02:57:13 PM

Far Cough: What a coincidence. NY Magazine just wrote an article just for you.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/02/woody-allen-and-young-g ir ls-a-history.html?mid=google


I mean, if I was caught in a love nest with 15 12-year-old girls tomorrow, people would think, yeah, I always knew that about him." Allen pauses. "Nothing I could come up with would surprise anyone," he ventures helplessly. "I admit to it all."

"It's as if, like the picture of Dorian Grey, Allen's films served as his conscience, leaving him free to misbehave in three dimensions," wrote Phoebe Hoban in New York almost 22 years ago. "All those elbow-nudging jokes about child molestation (the subject pops up in at least four of his films) and the permutations of sex with 16-year-old twins don't seem quite so funny anymore."


An affection for 16-year-old twins is the opposite of pedophilia. And a joke about child molestation is not a defense of child molestation. And do you know how many films Allen has made?

Again, I can't prove he's innocent. I'm just not going to convict him based on one iffy allegation or hatred of pedophiles or reading motive into jokes, sorry. Are you calling for McConaughey's head as well?

/anyone seen Susan Slept Here lately? try remaking that one now
 
2014-02-04 03:02:07 PM

frepnog: Is it fantasy? some fake, implanted memory? perhaps, but a grown woman telling you that should hold some weight.


It does. Enough to give it some thought. But not enough to convict, not of this.
 
2014-02-04 03:02:48 PM

Fano: Well, you should be prepared to file an Amicus brief against the Venture Brothers writers, who have had whole seasons of pedophile jokes and a SYMPATHETIC serial child rapist. Why, they must secretly also be kiddy fiddlers.


I was just replying to Nina's Ass who was, I think, disputing that underage lusting was a theme in Allen's movies and implying the Hemingway lolita storyline was a one-off.  (Even Scarlett seemed awfully young for him to be obsessing over.)
 
2014-02-04 03:05:25 PM

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: But not enough to convict, not of this.


if your grown daughter told you

"THAT MAN SEXUALLY ASSAULTED ME"

and had nothing to gain by doing so....

would you believe her?

I would.
 
2014-02-04 03:08:26 PM

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: frepnog: Is it fantasy? some fake, implanted memory? perhaps, but a grown woman telling you that should hold some weight.

It does. Enough to give it some thought. But not enough to convict, not of this.


I think I'm done; I'll be taking refuge in the warm comforting confines of the Kelly Brook thread.
 
2014-02-04 03:14:04 PM
i1079.photobucket.com
 
2014-02-04 03:14:13 PM

frepnog: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: But not enough to convict, not of this.

if your grown daughter told you

"THAT MAN SEXUALLY ASSAULTED ME"

and had nothing to gain by doing so....

would you believe her?

I would.


Well now we're down to defining "gain." And I have seen some grown women(and men) lie their asses off about some horrendously stupid sh*t.

Of course, your kids would never do that.
 
2014-02-04 03:14:27 PM
It's hard to tell who to believe. So I'm waiting to hear what Nancy Grace thinks before I decide.
 
2014-02-04 03:17:37 PM
Nina_Hartley's_Ass:
/anyone seen Susan Slept Here lately? try remaking that one now

Even better:
upload.wikimedia.org

/OMG LOUIS MALLE AND KEITH CARRADINE ARE CHILD RAPISTS
 
2014-02-04 03:22:46 PM

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: And I have seen some grown women(and men) lie their asses off about some horrendously stupid sh*t.

Of course, your kids would never do that.


Of course grown ups lie.

Why would the girl still be lying?  What is there to gain?  No one really gives much of a shiat about woody these days.  No one is anxiously awaiting the next Woody Allen film.  No one gives a shiat about Mia.  No one really cares about these kids.  Dylan is not going to get some big dollar payday; it isn't like Kanye beat her up.

Why would she still be lying?  She wrote a letter, disgusted that Woody is still celebrated.

It reads sincere.  I believe her.

The fact that Mia slept around means nothing.
 
2014-02-04 03:26:35 PM

Cletus C.: get it. You hate Mia Farrow. Do you also hate the woman who says Allen molested and terrorized her repeatedly when she was a child? Because that's where we are with this.


False dichotomy is false;

Read my above post about Kern County, CA sexual abuse cases from the 80's.   I don't hate the kids who falsely testified against their parents.  What may surprise you is that the brainwashing of many of those kids was so effective, so thorough and so deeply ingrained in their "memories" that many of them as adults still refuse to see their parents and still insist that they were the victims of satanic ritual child abuse.

I certainly don't hate them, but it doesn't mean that I have to believe them either, no matter how deeply they may believe in what they are saying is the truth.

About 12 yrs ago was involved in a divorce case helping my cousin, his crazy ex had made child sexual abuse allegations against him as a tactical move right before filing for divorce.  The child (who was 5/6 at the time) was interviewed by numerous doctors, police, etc. and her stories were fairly consistent, that her dad would routinely take advantage of "bath time" to sexually assault her.  Things were not looking good for him, but we knew that his soon to be ex was batshiat crazy and that there was something that was getting overlooked.  Finally we found it, turns out that my cousin was not the first one she had accused of sexually abusing her daughter.  The husband of the local day care center owner, the pastor at her church, the next-door neighbor, her own father and a few others had been identified by her as well.

Turned out, the police detective on the case figured it out, the little girl had been molested, not by her own father (my cousin) but by the mom's father, the little girl's grandfather.  So, when the girl testified she had many of the details correct, it's just that the mom had convinced her to point the blame at my cousin.  (She used her father as her free baby-sitter all the time and didn't want to lose that deal. I told you the biatch was crazy.)

The girl herself is now in her late teens and still refuses to have anything to do with my cousin.  She is still absolutely convinced, due to her mother convincing her, that it was her dad who was doing the molesting, not her grandfather.  This in light of physical evidence and the eventual prosecution of the old guy for diddling his granddaughter.

Now, do you think I or my cousin "hates" the girl (even as she approaches adulthood) because she still believes what her mom talked her into believing?
 
2014-02-04 03:28:50 PM

frepnog: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: And I have seen some grown women(and men) lie their asses off about some horrendously stupid sh*t.

Of course, your kids would never do that.

Of course grown ups lie.

Why would the girl still be lying?  What is there to gain?  No one really gives much of a shiat about woody these days.  No one is anxiously awaiting the next Woody Allen film.  No one gives a shiat about Mia.  No one really cares about these kids.  Dylan is not going to get some big dollar payday; it isn't like Kanye beat her up.

Why would she still be lying?  She wrote a letter, disgusted that Woody is still celebrated.

It reads sincere.  I believe her.

The fact that Mia slept around means nothing.


People must give a shiat: the reason she wrote the letter was to coincide with him receiving a major award. The letter explicitly says so.
 
2014-02-04 03:32:18 PM

Fano: People must give a shiat: the reason she wrote the letter was to coincide with him receiving a major award. The letter explicitly says so.


www.redriderleglamps.com

major award, you say?
 
2014-02-04 03:41:12 PM

kanesays: Darth Macho: Far Cough:(FYI I may not stick around in this thread as the subject sickens me.)
Remember all of those Penn State football fans who protested the Joe Paterno statue being taken down? People will go to any lengths to defend their hobbies when something goes wrong.
Woody Allen will never go to prison. His fans will continue to insult his former stepdaughter in pursuit of continuing to enjoy his movies. Famous people will continue to defend him in hopes of being cast in his next film. Meanwhile his name will forever carry the stain of the accusations. That's all.
Prison? You know why the case was dismissed? On the witness stand, Mia Farrow was about the doctor's findings: "There was no evidence of injury to the anal or vaginal area, is that correct?" Farrow answered, "Yes."
So, who's more likely to be telling the truth?
Next, Woody Allen was asked to take and passed a lie-detector test. Mia Farrow will not take one. You know, the one who lost her career.
So, who's telling the truth?


Anyone looking back on the record will know that Allen was initially not at all cooperative. The lie detector test that he supposedly passed seems to have only been seen by Allen's lawyers, and they claim to not know the current whereabouts of its results. It is true that Mia refused to take one.
 
2014-02-04 03:41:45 PM

frepnog: Why would the girl still be lying?  What is there to gain?  No one really gives much of a shiat about woody these days.  No one is anxiously awaiting the next Woody Allen film.  No one gives a shiat about Mia.  No one really cares about these kids.  Dylan is not going to get some big dollar payday; it isn't like Kanye beat her up.

Why would she still be lying?  She wrote a letter, disgusted that Woody is still celebrated.

It reads sincere.  I believe her.


Who says she is lying?   Lying would imply that one is deliberately misrepresenting the truth and making what they know to be false claims.

There are thousands of men who were sent to prison over the last two decades for sexual abuse/assault based on testimony from their now adult children, who made such claims based on "memories" from childhood.  A majority  of those convictions have now been overturned because subsequent investigation and scientific inquiry has shown that many such "memories" implanted in the brains of children that age are not trustworthy and that the events did not happen.   Children are much more easily manipulated into believing that events and actions took place, even when no such thing ever occurred.

You may want to read some from this website, it was founded by a couple who's adult daughter was convinced by a therapist as an adult that her "problems" stemmed from being sexually abused by her father as a young child.  So, even adults can be manipulated into believing something that never happened.

False Memory Syndrome Foundation -   http://www.fmsfonline.org/
 
2014-02-04 03:42:04 PM

frepnog: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: And I have seen some grown women(and men) lie their asses off about some horrendously stupid sh*t.

Of course, your kids would never do that.

Of course grown ups lie.

Why would the girl still be lying?  What is there to gain?  No one really gives much of a shiat about woody these days.  No one is anxiously awaiting the next Woody Allen film.  No one gives a shiat about Mia.  No one really cares about these kids.  Dylan is not going to get some big dollar payday; it isn't like Kanye beat her up.

Why would she still be lying?  She wrote a letter, disgusted that Woody is still celebrated.

It reads sincere.  I believe her.

The fact that Mia slept around means nothing.


I just want to make sure that you understand that you are presenting a false dichotomy.  She can be telling the truth based upon her memories of what happened to her when she was 7 and she can also be completely wrong.  It is a well-documented and repeated phenomenon.  The primary two theories would be that (1) Woody did it; and (2) that Mia, upset that Woody and Soon-Yi had become a couple, used her child to manufacture a sexual abuse charge against Woody.  Either one could explain why 28-year old Dylan seems completely convinced this happened.  And in either scenario, one of Dylan's parents is a monster who has ensured a lifetime of mental torture for Dylan.

As described by the dailybeast article (and open for refutation), there was never any physical evidence that Woody molested Dylan, Dylan's story as a 7-year old was not consistent, and there was evidence of Mia's influence in the statements made by Mia.  Considering the unlikely timing of these events (4 months after Soon-Yi and Woody started dating), and some other evidence demonstrating that Mia may not have been above lying/brainwashing/manipulating matters for her own gain, it is certainly reasonable to accept that Dylan's story, while honestly remembered, may not be true.
 
2014-02-04 03:47:37 PM

frepnog: Fano: People must give a shiat: the reason she wrote the letter was to coincide with him receiving a major award. The letter explicitly says so.



major award, you say?


Now see? The is the part of Fark where we can all have fun. Off to fire up my The Critic dvds to watch the bits making fun of Allen.
 
2014-02-04 03:51:03 PM

boyofd: And in either scenario, one of Dylan's parents is a monster who has ensured a lifetime of mental torture for Dylan.


you have a point.

if mia manufactured this stuff and Woody never did anything wrong but like him some young but legal tang, she is a freaking monster.

I guess there is no easy answer.  we'll never really know until we can read minds and download one's memories.
 
2014-02-04 03:55:55 PM

lawboy87: A few more things to consider:

Mia Farrow is one of Roman Polanski's closest friends.  Let that sink in for a minute.  Farrow tells the world that Woody Allen is the most vile and retched person on the face of the Earth, but she was one of the people signing and supporting the "Justice for Polanski" petition that was circulated a few years back.


That I did not know and make a strong case for nuking the whole show business profession from space.

Makes this sound more like the actions of a bitter ex. coaching the kids

Allen is still a creepy old guy and way, way overrated in his profession.
 
2014-02-04 03:59:50 PM
Hey subby, do you even know what a Wawa is?
 
2014-02-04 04:01:06 PM

steamingpile: Maybe shes speaking out since when shes 18 a cash flow gets cut off? Just a thought


I think she's close to 30.
 
2014-02-04 04:01:55 PM

boyofd: Dylan's story as a 7-year old was not consistent


Talk to a 7 year old about something.  What is fairly unimportant, but it has to be something that has a somewhat lengthy explanation.  Ask them to tell you the same thing again.  Repeat.  7 year olds telling a story will not be consistent unless they have been coached or it is a fairly simple thing they are recounting.
 
2014-02-04 04:08:52 PM
This dude married the step-daughter that he helped raise.....and got away with it. No one bats an eyelash that "Manhattan" is pretty much a story about what he'd like to do hiding behind fiction. Almost everything he's ever played in show a strange, borderline perverse lecherousness that becomes more creepy when one remembers that he married the step-daughter that he helped raise.

Now he's accused of child molestation and he the Hollywood elite defend him.

It reminds me of the Chris Rock-Michael Jackson defense:  "We love Mike so much we let the first kid go."


Ultimately I'm torn because I love many of his movies. But the double-standard we have for talented people is sickening.
 
2014-02-04 04:09:17 PM

buttcat: Hey subby, do you even know what a Wawa is?


WaWa is a awesome convenience store up north, and what Roseanna Roseanna Dana, well how she pronounced Barbs last name, and how Barb mangles it as well.
 
2014-02-04 04:14:39 PM

torr5962: married the step-daughter that he helped raise


No. And you're pretty much missing the point of that relationship in "Manhattan." Go ahead and have an opinion, believe he's guilty but do some better research before you convict a man of penetrating a seven year old girl.
 
2014-02-04 04:17:24 PM

mjbok: boyofd: Dylan's story as a 7-year old was not consistent

Talk to a 7 year old about something.  What is fairly unimportant, but it has to be something that has a somewhat lengthy explanation.  Ask them to tell you the same thing again.  Repeat.  7 year olds telling a story will not be consistent unless they have been coached or it is a fairly simple thing they are recounting.


I understand that.  I actually have a 7-year old son, so I know pretty well how at least one of them (and a few of his friends) act and react and remember things.  But I think whether your genitals have been touched is something he would generally be consistent on.  Coupled with statements from the 7-year old that seem like they may have been influenced by Mia (her "poor, poor mother"), Dylan's statements here seem less reliable than the typical inconsistent statements from your average 7-year old.

And in any event, the unfortunate point you are making, is that it is difficult to rely on a 7-year old's testimony for much of anything, especially when there is no physical evidence of the alleged crime.  I sometimes have trouble "convicting" my 10-year old of douchebaggery based solely on my 7-year old's claims unless I have better proof.  Luckily my 10-year old admits to a lot.
 
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