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(Global Geopolitics)   Panic-fest 2014 hits the US Treasury as we now have to raise the debt ceiling again. Fark double-panic Bonus: Almost all the cash will be gone soon after due to your tax refunds   (glblgeopolitics.wordpress.com) divider line 206
    More: Scary, debt limit, Bipartisan Policy Center, Treasury Secretary Jacob Lew, tax refunds, treasuries  
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4678 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Feb 2014 at 11:55 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



206 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-02-04 12:37:17 PM  

Wicked Chinchilla: 1)  Raise the debt ceiling for enough of a shot so they DON'T have to do it for the forseeable future
2)  Eliminate the debt ceiling entirely (this is number 2 because the way the appropriations process works the debt ceiling does in fact make some things easier)


You forgot #3 - actually do something about reducing the deficit so the entire problem becomes moot.

Wicked Chinchilla: It doesn't actually tell me anything about the debt itself because its a meaningless number.  It isn't based off of GDP, GNP, some international standard, or anything that comes close to actual data.


lolwat?  The debt ceiling is denominated nominal dollars.  It can be based upon GDP easily at any time you want.  Just because it is based in units that make it easy for the bean-counters, does not make it meaningless in the least.
 
2014-02-04 12:37:47 PM  

Private_Citizen: if poor people are lending at 0%, why not take them up on their offer?


Because if I charged market-rate interest on the amount I'm refunded every year I'd make, what, 90 cents?

I think it's worth losing out on that to not worry about paying a penalty.  I understand some among the uber-rich do things differently, and they get all the TV time talking about how stupid it is that people withhold more than they owe, but they also live for money.  For me, money is just a means to an end.  I got shiat I want to do without having to chase an interest-free loan whose market value is worth less than a donut shop coffee.

And god dammit can we stop making this a story already?  Raising the debt ceiling was a routine procedure right up until the last few years.
 
2014-02-04 12:38:46 PM  

The_Six_Fingered_Man: generallyso: If you owe taxes at the end of the year you're going to pay penalties.

lennavan: That's not true.  If you don't estimate close enough to what you owe at the end of the year, you pay penalties.

First one is totally wrong. Second one is less wrong.

The only one you would get hit with is the "Failure to Pay Proper Estimated Tax" penalty. You can safe harbor that by paying 90% of what is owed for the current year through withholdings or estimated tax payments. You can also safe harbor that by paying at least 100% of your prior year tax through withholdings or estimated tax payments. You also aren't subject to the penalty if your total tax is less than $1000 after taking out credits and withholdings.


Exactly, you get spanked if you underestimate two years in a row which is generally only a problem if you're a contractor doing your own estimated taxes and have a great year but don't account for it in your estimated payments or you have significant non-payroll income.
 
2014-02-04 12:44:46 PM  

The_Six_Fingered_Man: generallyso: If you owe taxes at the end of the year you're going to pay penalties.

lennavan: That's not true.  If you don't estimate close enough to what you owe at the end of the year, you pay penalties.

First one is totally wrong. Second one is less wrong.

The only one you would get hit with is the "Failure to Pay Proper Estimated Tax" penalty. You can safe harbor that by paying 90% of what is owed for the current year through withholdings or estimated tax payments. You can also safe harbor that by paying at least 100% of your prior year tax through withholdings or estimated tax payments. You also aren't subject to the penalty if your total tax is less than $1000 after taking out credits and withholdings.


What do you mean mine is less wrong?  Mine is the same as yours, minus all of the facts and specificity and whatnot!
 
2014-02-04 12:44:58 PM  

Doc Daneeka: tarheel07: rumpelstiltskin: BizarreMan: Tax refund? What's that+

That's the thing where we borrow money from the poor people at zero percent interest all year long, and then have to pay it back at the beginning of the next year. It's a huge thing in the peasant calendar, sort of like a harvest festival used to be. Lots of drinking and shooting guns and chasing wenches.

Devil's advocate, but if you owe taxes at the end of the year, the government's essentially loaned you money which you pay back interest-free too.

Not really, since it's not the government's money until the taxes are actually due on April 15th.

You could have zero withheld from your pay and pay your entire income tax out of pocket every April if you wanted. That wouldn't constitute the government loaning you the money - it's simply not giving the government money before it's actually due.


This is wrong.  I could go in to detail, but there is not one thing that is right here.

You've obviously never been in the position of having to make estimated tax payments quarterly in order to avoid huge penalties.
 
2014-02-04 12:45:03 PM  

Franko: But at least you've got something to show for it, not like all those other debt-ridden countries that spend their money on healthcare and education.

[www.thenational.ae image 460x307]


Reminds me of this from yesterday's Business tab Greece thread:
img.fark.net
/its even funnier if you use the voices of Toki as Greece and Skwisgar as Germany
//from metalocalypse
 
2014-02-04 12:45:12 PM  

SwiftFox: The tax refunds don't belong to the government to begin with.

Why were they ever counted as part of the money available to be spent on other things, if it has to be replaced now?


The government works on the assumption that people correctly fill out their W-4 forms, until some time around March-April when they remember that tens of millions of Americans are numerically illiterate.
 
2014-02-04 12:45:48 PM  

BizarreMan: Tax refund? What's that+


I know right? I paid more in taxes this year then I used to make in a year. It's ridiculous. Farking old people. I wish I could pay taxes a la carte, like "hmm, you didn't pay into social security so you can't collect it, but you did pay into education so you can send your kid to public school. You've paid road taxes, here's your drivers license. Why isn't anyone paying to drop bombs on Pakistani children? Come on guys, we really want to make a bunch of brown folk angry at us, why won't you opt in to that tax?"
 
2014-02-04 12:46:32 PM  
Set your withholding up so you don't get a refund. Why loan money at zero percent interest, when you can put it in the bank for half a percent interest?
 
2014-02-04 12:46:58 PM  

Target Builder: SwiftFox: The tax refunds don't belong to the government to begin with.

Why were they ever counted as part of the money available to be spent on other things, if it has to be replaced now?

The government works on the assumption that people correctly fill out their W-4 forms, until some time around March-April when they remember that tens of millions of Americans are numerically illiterate.


No worries if the budget doesn't quite work out -- just cut unnecessary spending.  Like education...

/ queue "Circle of Life" song
 
2014-02-04 12:47:56 PM  

Galloping Galoshes: Rapmaster2000: Republicans need to make a stand and shut down the government to protect our liberty.  Voters will reward them for their steadfastness in the face of out of control liberal entitlement welfare queen subsidies.

Nice troll.  Won't happen.  This will be a painless change; the GOP is not interested in taking attention away from Obamacare.


No, it's more like "the GOP is not interested in pissing off the ultra-minority in the country they have yet to piss off, by forcing a shutdown and keeping tax refunds from being disbursed". They're going to have their hands full keeping the tea partiers from breaking out the torches and pitchforks over the debt ceiling, though.

Congressional Democrats are already clearing their throats about it, considering that open letter the House Democratic Congress wrote to Boehner.
 
2014-02-04 12:49:43 PM  

Joe Blowme: Franko: But at least you've got something to show for it, not like all those other debt-ridden countries that spend their money on healthcare and education.

[www.thenational.ae image 460x307]

and the reason said countries dont have to spend on millitary, your welcome.


Fine.  Can we send those other countries a bill?
 
2014-02-04 12:50:30 PM  
I went to e-file this year and my return was rejected with this info

tarheel07: rumpelstiltskin: BizarreMan: Tax refund? What's that+

That's the thing where we borrow money from the poor people at zero percent interest all year long, and then have to pay it back at the beginning of the next year. It's a huge thing in the peasant calendar, sort of like a harvest festival used to be. Lots of drinking and shooting guns and chasing wenches.

Devil's advocate, but if you owe taxes at the end of the year, the government's essentially loaned you money which you pay back interest-free too.


Yes, but if you under withhold (which you probably did if you owe a lot at the end of the year) there is a fine.

Paying too much? Govt has no problem holding onto your money until April.
 
2014-02-04 12:50:51 PM  
What kind of shiathole third world nation are we talking about here?
 
2014-02-04 12:50:54 PM  
Single, no kids.  My tax refund rarely covers the cost of having an accountant do my taxes.
 
2014-02-04 12:51:03 PM  
I am surprised that we have any money in the Treasury anyway.
 
2014-02-04 12:51:23 PM  
Raise taxes.  Problem solved.  The higher our taxes are, the more money the government can hand out, and the more they hand out, the more they make, because every dollar they give to poor people magically turns into $1.50 or something.  And the taxes on the money the poor people spend will balance the deficit, and eventually we will have a surplus.

Actually I'm really not worried, just create another $1 trillion out of thin air and use that to pay for some government programs.  Every year just create another $1 trillion to balance that year's budget, bam!  no more deficit.
 
2014-02-04 12:54:36 PM  
Time To.....


a.espncdn.com
 
2014-02-04 12:55:05 PM  
I don't always get my news from the internet, but when I do I make sure the source is a blog on wordpress because it is all verified and supported fact!
 
2014-02-04 12:59:22 PM  
No problem.  They will just print more.. The debt ceiling will be raised.. we'll borrow more money from China, then we'll waste it.  We'll kick the bucket down to our childrens children to pay.  Meanwhile, we'll continue to spend even more money on social feel good programs to lure in more voters.
 
2014-02-04 12:59:42 PM  
So start printing money and using it to pay off debt without telling anybody that that's where it's coming from. Boom, problem solved.

/That problem, at least.
 
2014-02-04 01:00:56 PM  

GDubDub: Doc Daneeka: tarheel07: rumpelstiltskin: BizarreMan: Tax refund? What's that+

That's the thing where we borrow money from the poor people at zero percent interest all year long, and then have to pay it back at the beginning of the next year. It's a huge thing in the peasant calendar, sort of like a harvest festival used to be. Lots of drinking and shooting guns and chasing wenches.

Devil's advocate, but if you owe taxes at the end of the year, the government's essentially loaned you money which you pay back interest-free too.

Not really, since it's not the government's money until the taxes are actually due on April 15th.

You could have zero withheld from your pay and pay your entire income tax out of pocket every April if you wanted. That wouldn't constitute the government loaning you the money - it's simply not giving the government money before it's actually due.

This is wrong.  I could go in to detail, but there is not one thing that is right here.

You've obviously never been in the position of having to make estimated tax payments quarterly in order to avoid huge penalties.


Uhh, yeah.  I know.  That's why I retracted my post five posts above yours.

4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2014-02-04 01:03:04 PM  
I have a dumb but serious question: Do other countries collect tax like this and expect people to file annual 'returns' after calculating their own taxes?

The reason I ask is that it seems not only unnecessary but dangerous, considering that most people aren't accountants. Is there an advantage to not having the government(s) taking out an agreed-upon rate of tax and just leaving it at that? Is it all the deductions and incentives that make this necessary?
 
2014-02-04 01:04:48 PM  

macross87: Know how minnow who's fault it is?


Know how minnow who is caught sayof?
 
2014-02-04 01:05:53 PM  

HeadLever: Wicked Chinchilla: 1)  Raise the debt ceiling for enough of a shot so they DON'T have to do it for the forseeable future
2)  Eliminate the debt ceiling entirely (this is number 2 because the way the appropriations process works the debt ceiling does in fact make some things easier)

You forgot #3 - actually do something about reducing the deficit so the entire problem becomes moot.

Wicked Chinchilla: It doesn't actually tell me anything about the debt itself because its a meaningless number.  It isn't based off of GDP, GNP, some international standard, or anything that comes close to actual data.

lolwat?  The debt ceiling is denominated nominal dollars.  It can be based upon GDP easily at any time you want.  Just because it is based in units that make it easy for the bean-counters, does not make it meaningless in the least.


Should have phrased that better: the determination of the debt-ceiling means nothing.  It isn't scientifically determined using data.  They just do some rough math to determine when it would be most advantageous to occur next politically and use that amount.  Its not based on GDP/GNP/etc.

And what pray tell, needs to be done about the debt?  Austerity?  That working out really well for everyone else....
The solution to the debt ceiling is to get the economy back humming again.  You get people working and getting paid, you get more taxes, you lower the deficit.

So option C: pass jobs legislation and not attempt number 40+ to end obamacare/abortion/ whatever is the favorite poison pill this month
 
2014-02-04 01:06:14 PM  

That Guy Jeff: BizarreMan: Tax refund? What's that+

I know right? I paid more in taxes this year then I used to make in a year. It's ridiculous. Farking old people. I wish I could pay taxes a la carte, like "hmm, you didn't pay into social security so you can't collect it, but you did pay into education so you can send your kid to public school. You've paid road taxes, here's your drivers license. Why isn't anyone paying to drop bombs on Pakistani children? Come on guys, we really want to make a bunch of brown folk angry at us, why won't you opt in to that tax?"



Because then you get this:
upload.wikimedia.org


Need an ambulance? Hope your ambulance subscription is paid up. Oh, you're out of your coverage area? Better have that credit card ready before they dispatch.
 
2014-02-04 01:07:27 PM  
deadhomersociety.files.wordpress.com
What? Again? This stupid country.
 
2014-02-04 01:09:52 PM  
What will the House Republicans do this time?
img.fark.net
Or will they have learned from the last time?
 
2014-02-04 01:12:48 PM  

Phineas: Raise taxes.  Problem solved.  The higher our taxes are, the more money the government can hand out, and the more they hand out, the more they make, because every dollar they give to poor people magically turns into $1.50 or something.  And the taxes on the money the poor people spend will balance the deficit, and eventually we will have a surplus.

Actually I'm really not worried, just create another $1 trillion out of thin air and use that to pay for some government programs.  Every year just create another $1 trillion to balance that year's budget, bam!  no more deficit.


Raise taxes on the wealthiest among us, and take out tax loopholes so they pay what they actually owe. Raise the minimum wage to a reasonable level, so workers have more money to spend.  Provide tax incentives for companies that hire American, and/or tax penalties for those that send jobs overseas.

If more people are working, and those that are working have more money, they'll spend it. That money will circulate through the economy, rather than stagnating in the bank accounts of a few dozen billionaires. More money circulating means a healthier economy.

Oh, that might raise deficits in the short term? Boo farking hoo, with our GDP, the current debt isn't anywhere near a serious problem. Gut the DoD budget if you're that concerned about the debt.
 
2014-02-04 01:12:53 PM  

menschenfresser: I have a dumb but serious question: Do other countries collect tax like this and expect people to file annual 'returns' after calculating their own taxes?

The reason I ask is that it seems not only unnecessary but dangerous, considering that most people aren't accountants. Is there an advantage to not having the government(s) taking out an agreed-upon rate of tax and just leaving it at that? Is it all the deductions and incentives that make this necessary?


Nope.  I believe in the UK, companies effectively pay the government for your services, from which the government takes its share and then passes the remainder onto the employee.
 
2014-02-04 01:20:47 PM  
Sure we have to raise the debt ceiling every two weeks, but when the republicans vote against that they are acting like domestic terrorists holding this country hostage.

its not the spending that is out of control.  it is the republicans.
 
2014-02-04 01:21:55 PM  

Phineas: Raise taxes. Problem solved. The higher our taxes are, the more money the government can hand out


I agree with your sarcasm.  I'm sick of my tax dollars being handed out to defense contractors to purchase airplanes that we don't need and simply sit in storage.
 
2014-02-04 01:23:17 PM  
Didn't they just try to pass a law that no tax refunds under 50k will be paid out? As a cost cutting measure? And you have to write off that debt?
 
2014-02-04 01:23:30 PM  

SlothB77: Sure we have to raise the debt ceiling every two weeks, but when the republicans vote against that they are acting like domestic terrorists holding this country hostage.

its not the spending that is out of control.  it is the republicans.


^^^ This.

/Except the two weeks bit.  I know it seems often but it's actually not that often.
 
2014-02-04 01:23:49 PM  

Wicked Chinchilla: Should have phrased that better: the determination of the debt-ceiling means nothing.  It isn't scientifically determined using data.  They just do some rough math to determine when it would be most advantageous to occur next politically and use that amount.  Its not based on GDP/GNP/etc.


Ok, that point is fine.  I can agree to that.

And what pray tell, needs to be done about the debt?  Austerity?  That working out really well for everyone else....
The solution to the debt ceiling is to get the economy back humming again.  You get people working and getting paid, you get more taxes, you lower the deficit.


That is going to be the tricky part.  With the baby boomers starting to retire in droves and globalization becoming more commonplace, you are not going to see much in the way of increased unemployment for the working class unless we change quite a few things.  Add that to the increase entitlement spending that is demanded by these folks retiring and we are not in a good position moving forward.  Because of this our options are very limited.  Eventually, we are going to have to cut spending and increase tax revenue via policy shifts in many fronts in order to contain these deficits going forward.  Right now deficits are shrinking, but that does not mean that we are out of the woods.

www.taxnetwealth.com
 
2014-02-04 01:25:09 PM  

menschenfresser: I have a dumb but serious question: Do other countries collect tax like this and expect people to file annual 'returns' after calculating their own taxes?


For employees the UK system is pretty simple - your employer works out what your taxes will be and deducts them from each paycheck. They automatically adjust the deductions when you get pay rises/cuts or change jobs.

There are far fewer tax incentives (no mortgage interest deduction for example) and the equivalents of some US programs are paid out in cash rather than adjusted at the tax collection point - for example: for kids you get a non-means tested allowance sent to you in cash rather than a tax deduction so very little you do with your finances will affect your taxes owed. Pre-tax deductions like pension contributions are all also handled by your employer.

The system also includes automatic student loan repayments.

The only normal reasons an employee would file a tax return would be if you only worked part of the year or had a major salary change late in the year.

For the tax return you simply send them photocopies of your P45 and P60 forms (given to you when you leave employment and at the end of the tax year if you're currently employed, respectively) and a cover letter saying you think they overtaxed you and they work out the rest.

If you're not in a rush you don't even need to file - they eventually automatically work out over payments and you get a check mailed to you a few years later.

If you somehow underpay you'll eventually get a letter, maybe a couple of years later, from the Inland Revenue asking you to cough up some cash.
 
2014-02-04 01:26:34 PM  

SlothB77: its not the spending that is out of control.  it is the republicans.


Why not both?
 
2014-02-04 01:26:44 PM  

GhostfacedFiddlah: macross87: Know how minnow who's fault it is?

Know how minnow who is caught sayof?


Autocorrect - Principal Caught sayof edition.
 
2014-02-04 01:27:12 PM  
For everyone wondering why we're "paying" taxes ahead of time. Let me remind you:

1- people are dicks. If you don't already have someone's money they will do anything to avoid giving it to you. Even when facing jail time, discomfort it homelessness. Ask a bill collector, there is a reason they're evil pricks.

2- People are stupid. If you don't take their money ahead of time there will be idiotic rumors running around to "lower your bill" or "commit fraud". At least this way Uncle Sam and Aunt IRiS can check your math before you prove:

3- People are irresponsible. If you waited for everyone to file in order to get paid, they would blow that cash before January. Plenty of people would keep cash in an interest bearing account, but you can bet your ass if income dropped a few thousand that cash comes out of the tax money. Plus, people living check to check would sacrifice that savings every time they hit a bump. It's the same reason it's hard as hell to get your retirement money out of an account. And why people take out loans against that account to buy a boat.
 
2014-02-04 01:27:16 PM  

Galloping Galoshes: Rapmaster2000: Republicans need to make a stand and shut down the government to protect our liberty.  Voters will reward them for their steadfastness in the face of out of control liberal entitlement welfare queen subsidies.

Nice troll.  Won't happen.  This will be a painless change; the GOP is not interested in taking attention away from Obamacare.


Which is hilarious considering all of the actual successes of Obamacare lately.
 
2014-02-04 01:28:25 PM  

HeadLever: You forgot #3 - actually do something about reducing the deficit so the entire problem becomes moot.


Well the GOP isn't actually interested in policies that will reduce the deficit (i.e. raising taxes on the wealthy)

But that's notwithstanding the fact that the deficit is and has been reduced.
 
2014-02-04 01:28:41 PM  

lennavan: Phineas: Raise taxes. Problem solved. The higher our taxes are, the more money the government can hand out


I agree with your sarcasm.  I'm sick of my tax dollars being handed out to defense contractors to purchase airplanes that we don't need and simply sit in storage.


Maybe we can take both of your smartass comments and consider them as a serious debt reduction strategy.  If we really want to make a dent in this deficit, it really does need to be hit from both the spending and tax revenue side.
 
2014-02-04 01:29:17 PM  

HeadLever: SlothB77: its not the spending that is out of control.  it is the republicans.

Why not both?


Because spending isn't  actually out of control. Deficit's shrinking, remember?
 
2014-02-04 01:30:07 PM  

HeadLever: If we really want to make a dent in this deficit, it really does need to be hit from both the spending and tax revenue side.


We already  have.
 
2014-02-04 01:32:37 PM  

Phineas: Raise taxes.  Problem solved.  The higher our taxes are, the more money the government can hand out, and the more they hand out, the more they make, because every dollar they give to poor people magically turns into $1.50 or something.  And the taxes on the money the poor people spend will balance the deficit, and eventually we will have a surplus.

Actually I'm really not worried, just create another $1 trillion out of thin air and use that to pay for some government programs.  Every year just create another $1 trillion to balance that year's budget, bam!  no more deficit.


Inflation.

There is so much demand for stuff, there is so much flow of money.  If supply of money goes up, flow of money goes up (in theory.  This almost never works out perfectly), prices go up.

In the worst-case scenario, you start an inflation spiral, where no one trusts the money and so it circulates.  And then they confiscate a bunch of the land (Oh hey, they own 90+% of the Mountain West at this point) and use it to back a new currency.  And a year later, the best-dressed dictatorship of the 21st century gets into power, and starts a really nasty war that ensures US economic and geopolitical dominance for the next century or so.

/That's not even inflation 101, but my neuroeconomics major friend says that it's good enough when we're drunk.
 
2014-02-04 01:33:27 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: Well the GOP isn't actually interested in policies that will reduce the deficit (i.e. raising taxes on the wealthy)


That is not entirely correct as they have been advocates (at least on paper) of reducing government spending.  Both will have the impact of reducing the deficit.


cameroncrazy1984: But that's notwithstanding the fact that the deficit is and has been reduced.

True.  Tax revenue is up and government spending is down and the deficits (albeit still very high) are quickly trending downward.   However, you need to understand that we are still not out of the woods here.
 
2014-02-04 01:34:22 PM  

HeadLever: lennavan: Phineas: Raise taxes. Problem solved. The higher our taxes are, the more money the government can hand out


I agree with your sarcasm.  I'm sick of my tax dollars being handed out to defense contractors to purchase airplanes that we don't need and simply sit in storage.

Maybe we can take both of your smartass comments and consider them as a serious debt reduction strategy.  If we really want to make a dent in this deficit, it really does need to be hit from both the spending and tax revenue side.


I wasn't joking, I really am okay with cuts to defense.  I'm also okay with increasing tax revenue.
 
2014-02-04 01:35:51 PM  

Target Builder: menschenfresser: I have a dumb but serious question: Do other countries collect tax like this and expect people to file annual 'returns' after calculating their own taxes?

For employees the UK system is pretty simple - your employer works out what your taxes will be and deducts them from each paycheck. They automatically adjust the deductions when you get pay rises/cuts or change jobs.

There are far fewer tax incentives (no mortgage interest deduction for example) and the equivalents of some US programs are paid out in cash rather than adjusted at the tax collection point - for example: for kids you get a non-means tested allowance sent to you in cash rather than a tax deduction so very little you do with your finances will affect your taxes owed. Pre-tax deductions like pension contributions are all also handled by your employer.

The system also includes automatic student loan repayments.

The only normal reasons an employee would file a tax return would be if you only worked part of the year or had a major salary change late in the year.

For the tax return you simply send them photocopies of your P45 and P60 forms (given to you when you leave employment and at the end of the tax year if you're currently employed, respectively) and a cover letter saying you think they overtaxed you and they work out the rest.

If you're not in a rush you don't even need to file - they eventually automatically work out over payments and you get a check mailed to you a few years later.

If you somehow underpay you'll eventually get a letter, maybe a couple of years later, from the Inland Revenue asking you to cough up some cash.


That's virtually a photocopy of the US system with all of the complications removed. For example, if you buy a house on loan the interest from the mortgage is subtracted from your income. Also, the US uses this as a way to send cash to some impoverished who aren't quite on the welfare programs.

It's also considered a good time to collect data and check redundancies (they don't really do the second bit).
 
2014-02-04 01:37:23 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: Because spending isn't  actually out of control.


Actually, spending is still much higher (as a percentage of GDP) than historical norms (about 22%, currently).

2.bp.blogspot.com

And don't forget the point that if we want to actually reduce the debt (not the deficit), we are going to  have to reduce it some more.
 
2014-02-04 01:38:11 PM  
Now this could get interesting. Watch, as more tax returns get filed this month, and the story comes out that they might not be able to pay all the refunds they owe, and then watch the poors get all riot-y. If I get arrested while trying to seize a piece of government property, to sell for what they owe me, I'll try to get a Fark shoutout in my police report.
 
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