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(Slate)   By forcing "busing" of blacks and whites, Liberals failed race and hurt the concept of integration. Yes, this columnist actually believes that   (slate.com) divider line 96
    More: Fail, systems integration, white people, liberals  
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912 clicks; posted to Politics » on 04 Feb 2014 at 9:18 AM (37 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-02-04 08:15:31 AM  
I think it's less "this columnist actually believes that" and more "this columnist had a multi-part feature to write and understands that taking a slightly unorthodox view that's not utterly indefensible will get him more attention."
 
2014-02-04 08:37:10 AM  
Chris Rock has a thing or two to say about bussing. And with everything, it's a mixed bag, and there are successes and failures.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2014-02-04 08:37:18 AM  
Lots of people think that.  It harms racial harmony by encouraging them to get all uppity.
 
2014-02-04 08:41:45 AM  

vpb: Lots of people think that.  It harms racial harmony by encouraging them to get all uppity.


So, that's your takeaway from reading the article?
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2014-02-04 08:49:15 AM  

Nabb1: vpb: Lots of people think that.  It harms racial harmony by encouraging them to get all uppity.

So, that's your takeaway from reading the article?


That's my takeaway from most of the people I know who hated school bussing.

/Sorry if I spoiled your submission for you.
 
2014-02-04 08:51:25 AM  

vpb: Nabb1: vpb: Lots of people think that.  It harms racial harmony by encouraging them to get all uppity.

So, that's your takeaway from reading the article?

That's my takeaway from most of the people I know who hated school bussing.

/Sorry if I spoiled your submission for you.


It wasn't my submission. But it's clear you didn't RTFA before taking your shots at it. So, you've certainly contributed a well-thought addition to the discussion.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2014-02-04 09:13:27 AM  
Nabb1:

It wasn't my submission. But it's clear you didn't RTFA before taking your shots at it. So, you've certainly contributed a well-thought addition to the discussion.

And BTW, the world doesn't revolve around the North East, and the author and you seem to think.  I grew up in Alabama and while it may not have worked out perfectly up North I think it was a pretty good policy after all.
 
2014-02-04 09:18:12 AM  
Everyone knows the real reason for the bussing.
www.whatsonsanya.com
It was to take the fat ones off our hands.
 
2014-02-04 09:20:48 AM  

Pocket Ninja: I think it's less "this columnist actually believes that" and more "this columnist had a multi-part feature to write and understands that taking a slightly unorthodox view that's not utterly indefensible will get him more attention."


That's actually the only way you're going to get a piece on Slate.
 
2014-02-04 09:21:38 AM  
When people argue this, without a realistic alternative, all I hear is people longing for the days before Brown
 
2014-02-04 09:22:37 AM  
I am against bussing.  Our children are too fat as is.  Those kids need the exercise.
 
2014-02-04 09:23:42 AM  
"I'm all for busing.  Long as I don't wind up at school!"  ~  G. Coleman, c. 1978
 
2014-02-04 09:24:23 AM  
In elementary school I got bused from a school literally across the street from my house to a half hour away to some shiathole. So I wasn't a fan of busing. I did learn to fight early though.
 
2014-02-04 09:26:09 AM  

Pocket Ninja: I think it's less "this columnist actually believes that" and more "this columnist had a multi-part feature to write and understands that taking a slightly unorthodox view that's not utterly indefensible will get him more attention."


Today's media, folks. "Doesn't matter what I write, really, as long as we can sell ads on it - if they show up out of morbid curiosity to view a multi-page train wreck, well, that page view counts just as much as if they showed up out of intellectual curiosity to view an insightful discussion. The train wreck's easier to write, so, guess what? We're all drunk engineers now! Whoo-whoo!"
 
2014-02-04 09:26:34 AM  
So this is a piece on busing integration.

I think there's a law or something that says that someone needs to post this picture in the thread:

4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2014-02-04 09:26:52 AM  

vpb: I grew up in Alabama and while it may not have worked out perfectly up North I think it was a pretty good policy after all.


Which is amusing, because after bashing busing for like a thousand words, the author admits as much:

"Back in my old high school in Birmingham, white parents fought to stop the school bus. The district judge in the case eventually ruled that while black students would be bused into the school system, white students would not be required to bus to black schools. With that half-victory, my town gave up and begrudgingly took its medicine. Busing proceeded without incident and stayed in place at our school for nearly four decades. Today, the school is almost 10 percent black and-more important-you'll find most of those kids sitting all over the cafeteria. And this is in a suburb of Birmingham, at a school whose official school flag used to be the Confederate Battle Flag."

His argument basically boils down to 1) In sprawling metro areas like Detroit, it's prohibitively expensive, 2) After Nixon packed the court with pro-segregation Justices, busing was neutered, and 3) White people were never going to accept sending their kids to black schools, so why bother trying?

The last point is the most confusing one, since he admits that black schools were unquestionably worse than white schools, but railed against BOTH shutting down black schools to send the kids to white schools, AND forcing kids from white schools to attend black schools.
 
2014-02-04 09:27:35 AM  

Lost Thought 00: When people argue this, without a realistic alternative, all I hear is people longing for the days before Brown


This. I'm a liberal but I can definitely see why busing, while well-intentioned, was a very badly executed concept and am not surprised by the negative reception that it had from most groups.

That being said, it is funny that the most vocal critics of busing never ever offer an alternative solution to the issue and their only position was just to let the status quo stand. Kind of the 1970s version of "FIX OLD, NO NEW!"
 
2014-02-04 09:28:34 AM  
Okay, there's a game I like to play for headlines that make as little sense as this one. I don't read TFA and try to figure out what stubby meant only by reading the comments. This may or may not include trying to sound like I know what I'm talking about in thread.
 
2014-02-04 09:29:47 AM  

nmrsnr: vpb: I grew up in Alabama and while it may not have worked out perfectly up North I think it was a pretty good policy after all.

Which is amusing, because after bashing busing for like a thousand words, the author admits as much:

"Back in my old high school in Birmingham, white parents fought to stop the school bus. The district judge in the case eventually ruled that while black students would be bused into the school system, white students would not be required to bus to black schools. With that half-victory, my town gave up and begrudgingly took its medicine. Busing proceeded without incident and stayed in place at our school for nearly four decades. Today, the school is almost 10 percent black and-more important-you'll find most of those kids sitting all over the cafeteria. And this is in a suburb of Birmingham, at a school whose official school flag used to be the Confederate Battle Flag."

His argument basically boils down to 1) In sprawling metro areas like Detroit, it's prohibitively expensive, 2) After Nixon packed the court with pro-segregation Justices, busing was neutered, and 3) White people were never going to accept sending their kids to black schools, so why bother trying?

The last point is the most confusing one, since he admits that black schools were unquestionably worse than white schools, but railed against BOTH shutting down black schools to send the kids to white schools, AND forcing kids from white schools to attend black schools.


His thesis is basically "There was no good answer, the answer we came up with was imperfect, therefore it failed despite it being the least imperfect answer available at the time."

Frankly, it's all a bunch of overly sociologically introspective hand-wringing with little recognition of the problems presented by race relations before integration or just to what extent they were terrible. When a problem is so thoroughly ingrained and completely farked, there is no "good" answer, only an answer that inches us in the right direction so the good one eventually becomes feasible.
 
2014-02-04 09:31:00 AM  

andrewagill: So this is a piece on busing integration.

I think there's a law or something that says that someone needs to post this picture in the thread:

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 500x400]


This was a terrible incident, which is why I like to lighten the mood with my own caption:


img.fark.net


"It's pronounced chowdah!  Say it right, Jackson!"

 
2014-02-04 09:34:37 AM  
This Tanner dude sure has a fixation on black folks:

http://www.slate.com/authors.tanner_colby.html
 
2014-02-04 09:34:42 AM  

Bloody William: Frankly, it's all a bunch of overly sociologically introspective hand-wringing with little recognition of the problems presented by race relations before integration or just to what extent they were terrible. When a problem is so thoroughly ingrained and completely farked, there is no "good" answer, only an answer that inches us in the right direction so the good one eventually becomes feasible.


I like his concept that zoning laws and property taxes would have helped, because while the concept of sharing a school with black students caused white flight, having black families more readily able to move next door wouldn't have.
 
2014-02-04 09:34:52 AM  
Well if nothing else, it added 25 minutes to my bus ride every morning for 4 years.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2014-02-04 09:34:59 AM  

Mugato: In elementary school I got bused from a school literally across the street from my house to a half hour away to some shiathole. So I wasn't a fan of busing. I did learn to fight early though.


I was in the chess club of the high school where I went and I went to a "black" high school for a tournament.  The school had been segregated, but the building looked like it was left over from the civil war.

It even had an unrepaired hole in the roof, almost like it was still damaged from the war or something.

I thought bussing sucked at the time, but it certainly seems to have help fix the problem.
 
2014-02-04 09:38:06 AM  
Busing didn't produce complete racial harmony and high-performing schools, therefore we should have stuck with segregation.

This guy gets PAID to write shiat like that. Let that sink in.
 
2014-02-04 09:38:32 AM  
By Tanner Colby

By Tanner Colby

By Tanner Colby

By TANNER EFFING COLBY

Oh Tanner Colby! I definitely trust a Hall of Fame White Name like that! Educate me on 1960s Race Relations, Tanner Colby!
 
2014-02-04 09:39:13 AM  
War is peace! Ignorance is strength!
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2014-02-04 09:39:19 AM  
nmrsnr:

The last point is the most confusing one, since he admits that black schools were unquestionably worse than white schools, but railed against BOTH shutting down black schools to send the kids to white schools, AND forcing kids from white schools to attend black schools.

Yes, but taking it all into consideration it seems to be a case of "it isn't perfect so it's worse than nothing".
 
2014-02-04 09:42:13 AM  

Biff_Steel: This Tanner dude sure has a fixation on black folks:

http://www.slate.com/authors.tanner_colby.html


I saw that too.  Somebody was mean to him as a kid.
 
2014-02-04 09:43:39 AM  
images.c-spanvideo.org Seriously?  I'm beginning to think the only way to sell books now is with trolling.  Which reminds me, Tiger Mom has a new book out claiming that the Chinese, Persians, and Nigerians are inherently superior to other cultures.  I'd like to see Tanner Colby top that.
 
2014-02-04 09:44:27 AM  
Actually busing was part of the flaming liberal policies of Richard M. Nixon. The Nixon administration really accelerated school integration, inspired by liberal Eisenhower putting his foot down on segregationists like in Little Rock etc.
 
2014-02-04 09:47:42 AM  

Biff_Steel: This Tanner dude sure has a fixation on black folks:

http://www.slate.com/authors.tanner_colby.html



The Gentleman Caller: By Tanner Colby

By Tanner Colby

By Tanner Colby

By TANNER EFFING COLBY

Oh Tanner Colby! I definitely trust a Hall of Fame White Name like that! Educate me on 1960s Race Relations, Tanner Colby!


After look him up, apparently he wrote this book.

From a glance, it looks to be a critique of white liberals' awkward relationship with actual racial minorities, albeit from a tongue-in-cheek viewpoint.

So it sounds like he is a smarmy, privileged, holier-than-thou, liberal-elitist white guy. But at least he's a self-aware smarmy, privileged, holier-than-thou, liberal-elitist white guy
 
2014-02-04 09:48:15 AM  

nmrsnr: The last point is the most confusing one, since he admits that black schools were unquestionably worse than white schools, but railed against BOTH shutting down black schools to send the kids to white schools, AND forcing kids from white schools to attend black schools.


Take race out of it.

So you are saying that you are going to take my kid and bus him across town so he can go to a poor performing school because......  NO he is going to stay in the good school.

So you are saying you want to implode the poor performing schools and try to average out the performance across the boards.... but my school is the better performing ones, so you are trying to drop the performance of my school?  No, increase the performance of the lower ones, dont drop mine.
 
2014-02-04 09:49:49 AM  
Sometimes you have to drag people, kicking and screaming, into the 21st century. Everyone hates change. But I only hate change when it's not enough to buy some delicious Wrigley's Spearmint chewing gum.
 
2014-02-04 09:51:19 AM  
Yes, this columnist actually believes that

It's hard to guess what right-wing columnists actually believe.  They can't all be as ignorant as they seem.
 
2014-02-04 09:52:33 AM  
I got bussed to a school "on the black side of town" for the 5th grade. It was a nice school. The racial makeup was the same as my old school. The neighborhood was demographically different. It was a fact of life that nobody got too riled up about in the 80s.
 
2014-02-04 09:55:07 AM  

Saiga410: nmrsnr: The last point is the most confusing one, since he admits that black schools were unquestionably worse than white schools, but railed against BOTH shutting down black schools to send the kids to white schools, AND forcing kids from white schools to attend black schools.

Take race out of it.

So you are saying that you are going to take my kid and bus him across town so he can go to a poor performing school because......  NO he is going to stay in the good school.

So you are saying you want to implode the poor performing schools and try to average out the performance across the boards.... but my school is the better performing ones, so you are trying to drop the performance of my school?  No, increase the performance of the lower ones, dont drop mine.


Problem: Systematic oppression of racial minorities for centuries
Solution: Don't do a god damn thing in my town
 
2014-02-04 09:56:17 AM  

Saiga410: Take race out of it.


No.

Saiga410: So you are saying that you are going to take my kid and bus him across town so he can go to a poor performing school because...... NO he is going to stay in the good school.


Because the other school is poor performing because this country screwed them over left, right, and center for about a century, and we have to start fixing it.

Saiga410: So you are saying you want to implode the poor performing schools and try to average out the performance across the boards.... but my school is the better performing ones, so you are trying to drop the performance of my school? No, increase the performance of the lower ones, dont drop mine.


Your school is only better because we've been treating your kids liked pampered angels while treating their kids like crap. That's not fair at all, we're just trying to level the playing field. Don't like it? Tough. Your kid is getting the same education he was before, don't worry about how the other kids are doing.
 
2014-02-04 10:01:28 AM  

Mad Tea Party: Busing didn't produce complete racial harmony and high-performing schools, therefore we should have stuck with segregation.

This guy gets PAID to write shiat like that. Let that sink in.


Here in the north, there wasn't segregation per se. It was defacto segregation; neighborhoods were representative of thier respective populations.   Since  schools in the inner city black neighborhoods were doing poorly,  the goverment decided the answer was to ship more whites in, and some blacks out.

I'm not for for segregation, but forced bussing doesn't seem like the best answer to me.
 
2014-02-04 10:04:45 AM  
FTFA:

The left has been ceded a monopoly on caring about black people, and monopolies are dangerous. They create ossified institutions, paralyzed by groupthink and incapable of self-reflection. To the extent that liberals are willing to be self-critical, it's generally to flagellate themselves for not being liberal enough, for failing to stand fast with the old, accepted orthodoxies. Monopolies also lead to arrogance and entitlement, and the left is nothing if not arrogant when it comes to constantly and loudly asserting its place as the One True Friend of Black America.


That's where I got off. Sir, when the alternative is a candidate who says he doesn't want to give money to "blah" people, a candidate whose church didn't believe black people were worthy of Heaven until the 70's, and a guy who called Obama the "food stamp President, you vote for the other guy. He's trying to vilify white liberals for ACTUALLY having black friends and treating everyone like human beings. They're not bragging about liking black people you asshole. They're telling you and clowns like you that everyone deserves a chance.
 
2014-02-04 10:10:34 AM  
I grew up in Alabama and I liked bussing because it showed the world that racism exists in other places besides the South, Boston comes to mind.
 
2014-02-04 10:11:49 AM  
I was told racism no longer exists because we have a black president.
 
2014-02-04 10:12:25 AM  

Danger Mouse: I'm not for for segregation, but forced bussing doesn't seem like the best answer to me.


What was a better answer? I'll repeat myself.

When a problem is so thoroughly ingrained and completely farked, there is no "good" answer, only an answer that inches us in the right direction so the good one eventually becomes feasible.

Things were farked. They're still not great, but they're less farked. The process of un-farking the situation was not perfect, but it was the least damaging or non-functional way available to un-fark things. Offer a better alternative you would have gone with if you have one, otherwise I'm standing by my point.
 
2014-02-04 10:12:25 AM  
Mostly tl;dr, But my take away is what MLK said that the government can put people in the same room, but can't make them get along. Within integrated schools, the students self segregate.
 
2014-02-04 10:13:17 AM  

nmrsnr: Your school is only better because we've been treating your kids liked pampered angels while treating their kids like crap. That's not fair at all, we're just trying to level the playing field. Don't like it? Tough. Your kid is getting the same education he was before, don't worry about how the other kids are doing.


I'm not sure that's the best attitude to have when trying to improve race relations.
 
2014-02-04 10:14:24 AM  

the_vegetarian_cannibal: nmrsnr: Your school is only better because we've been treating your kids liked pampered angels while treating their kids like crap. That's not fair at all, we're just trying to level the playing field. Don't like it? Tough. Your kid is getting the same education he was before, don't worry about how the other kids are doing.

I'm not sure that's the best attitude to have when trying to improve race relations.


It's not but it's a realistic analysis of the situation. If you're on the "winning" side of racial disparity, any correction will be detrimental to your situation.
 
2014-02-04 10:19:22 AM  

oryx: Mostly tl;dr, But my take away is what MLK said that the government can put people in the same room, but can't make them get along. Within integrated schools, the students self segregate.



Fine. But at least they black kids at the white school would be getting a decent education.
 
2014-02-04 10:19:40 AM  

andrewagill: So this is a piece on busing integration.

I think there's a law or something that says that someone needs to post this picture in the thread:

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 500x400]


So the guy being beaten with a flag there, landsmark, is now the president of the Boston college of architecture.  I suspect the dumb teenager doing the beating is in jail somewhere.
 
2014-02-04 10:26:00 AM  
Five years ago, while fervently supporting the candidacy of the man who would become America's first black president, I came to the realization that I didn't actually know any black people. Most of the people I did know (i.e., other white people) didn't know many black people either. One, maybe two, was the norm. I asked one white guy I knew if he had any black friends, and he replied, "You mean ones that aren't on television?"

I wanted to know why integration-actual, genuine integration-had failed so spectacularly.


Well, Tanner, it's either because liberals are stupid and bad and we shouldn't listen to them, or because your racist parents raised you as far away from black people as possible.
 
2014-02-04 10:34:14 AM  
God's Hubris

I was told you no longer exist because SCIENCE!
 
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