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(Huffington Post)   New research suggests aliens were in the universe a lot earlier than we thought and us Earthlings are really just the noobs in here   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 88
    More: Interesting, Big Bang theory, earthlings, Cosmological Constant, age of the universe, cosmic microwave background, rocky planet, background radiation, energy density  
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3407 clicks; posted to Geek » on 03 Feb 2014 at 3:10 PM (31 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-02-03 02:42:37 PM
Sooooo... alien life would have consisted of just hydrogen atoms?
 
2014-02-03 03:11:22 PM
Which thought?
 
2014-02-03 03:17:15 PM
This is silly.  We earthlings are the only ones in this universe.  There are no "aliens" anywhere.  It's just us.


/some people actually believe this.
 
2014-02-03 03:20:05 PM
Xeelee
 
2014-02-03 03:20:42 PM
Totes noobs. Adorbs.
 
2014-02-03 03:29:41 PM
Someone has to be first. If it's us, sentience is in for a very brief run.
 
2014-02-03 03:30:20 PM
Alien philosophers considered how amenable to life the universe is, being of a temperature which was so gracious to life.

/life made of hydrogen and helium, because no supernovas so there's darned little chemistry going on
 
2014-02-03 03:30:58 PM
Even though we have not actually found, seen, touched, communicated with, or have any clues about their whereabouts or even actual existence, the research supports this. Yay research!!
 
2014-02-03 03:32:43 PM
From the 'Anally Extracted Data' Research Department.
 
2014-02-03 03:38:05 PM
Yeah, be more like Dr King, because that worked out so well for him.
 
2014-02-03 03:39:03 PM
shiat wrong thread
 
2014-02-03 03:40:31 PM

GanjSmokr: This is silly.  We earthlings are the only ones in this universe.  There are no "aliens" anywhere.  It's just us.


/some people actually believe this.


Well, where are they? Please tell us your thoughts on the Fermi Paradox.
 
2014-02-03 03:46:20 PM

mrlewish: Xeelee


I love the fact that he made the cosmic inflation the result of a WMD.
 
2014-02-03 03:54:09 PM
New answer to the Fermi paradox: we're that guy who shows up just as everyone else is leaving the party.
 
2014-02-03 03:55:34 PM

Fano: GanjSmokr: This is silly.  We earthlings are the only ones in this universe.  There are no "aliens" anywhere.  It's just us.


/some people actually believe this.

Well, where are they? Please tell us your thoughts on the Fermi Paradox.


Still, even just look at the wide variety of life on Earth. The various "inhospitable" places various critters thrive. Now we need to believe that there is no life outside of Earth because the circumstances aren't just right on any of the planets we only manage to glimpse from a few billion miles away?
 
2014-02-03 03:58:46 PM

GanjSmokr: There are no "aliens" anywhere. It's just us.


I'm pretty sure there's plenty of non-human life on earth.  The real question is just how particular the case is for intelligent life.  Like you can't have civilization on water-worlds because the lack of fire makes it hard to kickstart things like smelting and food preservation, and the lack of stable land makes agriculture hard.

It becomes tricky, because all the other "moderately intelligent" species we have on the planet are mammals.  What is it about mammalian evolution that favored intelligence, and primate evolution that favored extraordinary intelligence(enough for speaking, writing, technology, civilization)?

3 Billion years of evolution on earth yielded zero multicellular creatures.  The last 650 million is all things you typically think of when you think "life".

There's just so much room for variation, we can't know if our path is an unusual one.  Life, in general, seems inevitable.  Things we'd call "persons" might be really rare.  Really really really rare.
 
2014-02-03 04:02:27 PM

Fano: GanjSmokr: This is silly.  We earthlings are the only ones in this universe.  There are no "aliens" anywhere.  It's just us.


/some people actually believe this.

Well, where are they? Please tell us your thoughts on the Fermi Paradox.


Shall we put you under the "believes life on earth is the only life in the universe" column?  If so, do you also believe that the universe was created specifically for those on earth?
 
2014-02-03 04:03:46 PM

Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: New answer to the Fermi paradox: we're that guy who shows up just as everyone else is leaving the party.


Any intelligent life in the universe is more likely than not going to - at the bare minimum - be millions of years older than us, if not billions.

If they don't want us to find them yet we're probably not going to find them. Maybe some day if we get our shiat in order, mature as a species, advance our tech and get out in to the stars we'll find them. Until then i would expect that we're not worth talking to yet if we're even on their radar at all...
 
2014-02-03 04:06:11 PM

mongbiohazard: Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: New answer to the Fermi paradox: we're that guy who shows up just as everyone else is leaving the party.

Any intelligent life in the universe is more likely than not going to - at the bare minimum - be millions of years older than us, if not billions.

If they don't want us to find them yet we're probably not going to find them. Maybe some day if we get our shiat in order, mature as a species, advance our tech and get out in to the stars we'll find them. Until then i would expect that we're not worth talking to yet if we're even on their radar at all...


Or intelligent species don't survive for billions of years. We might find their graves.
 
2014-02-03 04:07:20 PM
4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2014-02-03 04:09:55 PM

Fano: GanjSmokr: This is silly.  We earthlings are the only ones in this universe.  There are no "aliens" anywhere.  It's just us.


/some people actually believe this.

Well, where are they? Please tell us your thoughts on the Fermi Paradox.


"We haven't found them yet" is the weakest possible argument against alien life.

The universe is big. Real big. We only see a small part of it. A very small part. Humanity not being able to detect something means very little to the chances of its existence.
 
2014-02-03 04:16:31 PM
Obvious tag hanging out with the ancients?
 
2014-02-03 04:27:49 PM

Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: Or intelligent species don't survive for billions of years. We might find their graves.


Depends on if they decided to get out into the universe or not.

"The universe is probably littered with the one-planet graves of cultures which made the sensible economic decision that there's no good reason to go into space--each discovered, studied, and remembered by the ones who made the irrational decision."

(Sourced via XKCD, but I have to assume the quote came from somewhere else.)
 
2014-02-03 04:30:27 PM

Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: mongbiohazard: Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: New answer to the Fermi paradox: we're that guy who shows up just as everyone else is leaving the party.

Any intelligent life in the universe is more likely than not going to - at the bare minimum - be millions of years older than us, if not billions.

If they don't want us to find them yet we're probably not going to find them. Maybe some day if we get our shiat in order, mature as a species, advance our tech and get out in to the stars we'll find them. Until then i would expect that we're not worth talking to yet if we're even on their radar at all...

Or intelligent species don't survive for billions of years. We might find their graves.


Totally possible too. Only one way to find out in either case: get our shiat together as a species and get out there among the stars.
 
2014-02-03 04:32:33 PM

Semper IvXx: Fano: GanjSmokr: This is silly.  We earthlings are the only ones in this universe.  There are no "aliens" anywhere.  It's just us.


/some people actually believe this.

Well, where are they? Please tell us your thoughts on the Fermi Paradox.

"We haven't found them yet" is the weakest possible argument against alien life.

The universe is big. Real big. We only see a small part of it. A very small part. Humanity not being able to detect something means very little to the chances of its existence.


We might find them, someday. But your argument goes for God, Leprechauns, Unicorns, and Yeti.
 
2014-02-03 04:40:06 PM

GanjSmokr: This is silly.  We earthlings are the only ones in this universe.  There are no "aliens" anywhere.  It's just us.


/some people actually believe this.


More like it's really retarded either way to make any statement other than "we don't know", but doubly so for making the assumption that the universe  MUST be teeming with ET life like fanciful knuckledraggers who think child-like magical thinking has any place in intellectual discussion. Nothing unreal exists.
 
2014-02-03 04:41:04 PM

Semper IvXx: The universe is big. Real big. We only see a small part of it. A very small part. Humanity not being able to detect something means very little to the chances of its existence.


We can kinda see up to 46 billion light years out (thanks to cosmic inflation). The lower bound for the size of the entire universe, presuming it is not actually infinite (which is likely) is as much larger than that as the observable universe is larger than one person.

Yeah, there's intelligent life out there. We may never meet it, but it's there.
 
2014-02-03 04:44:48 PM

Boojum2k: Semper IvXx: The universe is big. Real big. We only see a small part of it. A very small part. Humanity not being able to detect something means very little to the chances of its existence.

We can kinda see up to 46 billion light years out (thanks to cosmic inflation). The lower bound for the size of the entire universe, presuming it is not actually infinite (which is likely) is as much larger than that as the observable universe is larger than one person.

Yeah, there's intelligent life out there. We may never meet it, but it's there.


You're one of those people holding out hope we'll find unicorns in Antartica living with dinosaurs being trained and bred by Elvis and Marilyn Monroe, right?

A good possibility is hardly the same nor should it be treated the same as a probability or a confirmed reality.
 
2014-02-03 04:47:16 PM

Crotchrocket Slim: You're one of those people holding out hope we'll find unicorns in Antartica living with dinosaurs being trained and bred by Elvis and Marilyn Monroe, right?


Not even close, so I'll take the rest of your prognostications with the same consideration of your accuracy.
 
2014-02-03 04:49:33 PM

Boojum2k: Not even close, so I'll take the rest of your prognostications with the same consideration of your accuracy.


Having a decently developed vocabulary doesn't preclude you or excuse you from engaging in making unconfirmed assumptions of your own, like that organic life developed anywhere outside of the solar system.

If I had no point, you have a negative one essentially.
 
2014-02-03 04:52:24 PM

Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: mongbiohazard: Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: New answer to the Fermi paradox: we're that guy who shows up just as everyone else is leaving the party.

Any intelligent life in the universe is more likely than not going to - at the bare minimum - be millions of years older than us, if not billions.

If they don't want us to find them yet we're probably not going to find them. Maybe some day if we get our shiat in order, mature as a species, advance our tech and get out in to the stars we'll find them. Until then i would expect that we're not worth talking to yet if we're even on their radar at all...

Or intelligent species don't survive for billions of years. We might find their graves.


Maybe they all live in Dyson spheres.

3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2014-02-03 04:52:36 PM

Crotchrocket Slim: Boojum2k: Semper IvXx: The universe is big. Real big. We only see a small part of it. A very small part. Humanity not being able to detect something means very little to the chances of its existence.

We can kinda see up to 46 billion light years out (thanks to cosmic inflation). The lower bound for the size of the entire universe, presuming it is not actually infinite (which is likely) is as much larger than that as the observable universe is larger than one person.

Yeah, there's intelligent life out there. We may never meet it, but it's there.

You're one of those people holding out hope we'll find unicorns in Antartica living with dinosaurs being trained and bred by Elvis and Marilyn Monroe, right?

A good possibility is hardly the same nor should it be treated the same as a probability or a confirmed reality.


You admit that there is a good possibility of there being intelligent life, yet compare believing in it to there being unicorns in Antarctica? Both have no proof, so I can kind of see your point, but that is a bad analogy, and you should feel bad.
 
2014-02-03 04:54:56 PM

Crotchrocket Slim: Boojum2k: Not even close, so I'll take the rest of your prognostications with the same consideration of your accuracy.

Having a decently developed vocabulary doesn't preclude you or excuse you from engaging in making unconfirmed assumptions of your own, like that organic life developed anywhere outside of the solar system.

If I had no point, you have a negative one essentially.


I think the underlying point (i.e. that if life developed through naturalistic processes, it's inevitable that such a thing be repeatable somewhere in the universe) is reasonable, while the implied conclusion(i.e. that this necessarily means that the loaded term "aliens" exist) isn't.

In actuality, the failure of the first point on a sufficient scale would be enough to get me to reconsider the origins of life.
 
2014-02-03 04:55:26 PM

Crotchrocket Slim: excuse you from engaging in making unconfirmed assumptions of your own


It's a safe bet. We could spend eternity exploring the universe, trying to prove me wrong, and hey, free universe.

The universe is insanely huge. At any probability short of "God made us this way" for our evolved intelligence, there's going to be multiples across that area. Maybe not even in the same supercluster.

As I said, we may never meet another intelligent species. We may even, though less likely, not find any other life.
 
2014-02-03 04:58:50 PM
 
2014-02-03 04:59:44 PM

New Farkin User Name: You admit that there is a good possibility of there being intelligent life, yet compare believing in it to there being unicorns in Antarctica? Both have no proof, so I can kind of see your point, but that is a bad analogy, and you should feel bad.


A good possibility is not the same as a good probability; if the universe were teeming with sentient life and just waiting for us to make contact we'd probably have undeniable evidence now (not grainy video and some crude wall etchings that could be any damn thing). Should you feel the need to try to argue with people who do know the meaning of words you might want to get a dictionary.

We have as much evidence for the existence of aliens as we do for Odin slaying the Frost Giants and using their bodies to construct the world we live in (you don't know that Frost Giants aren't constructed or rock and dirt and the other materials). Running into extra terrestrial life would be a fantastic thing, a fantastic game changer for the whole species, and as such requires more fantastic proof than your "God in the margins" intellectual laziness.
 
2014-02-03 05:00:34 PM

Boojum2k: Crotchrocket Slim: excuse you from engaging in making unconfirmed assumptions of your own

It's a safe bet. We could spend eternity exploring the universe, trying to prove me wrong, and hey, free universe.

The universe is insanely huge. At any probability short of "God made us this way" for our evolved intelligence, there's going to be multiples across that area. Maybe not even in the same supercluster.

As I said, we may never meet another intelligent species. We may even, though less likely, not find any other life.


And, notably, "we" being anyone of our generation is essentially certain not to.
 
2014-02-03 05:01:33 PM
"Whatever they are they walk by Sigma 957, and they must walk alone..."
 
2014-02-03 05:12:53 PM

ikanreed: Boojum2k: Crotchrocket Slim: excuse you from engaging in making unconfirmed assumptions of your own

It's a safe bet. We could spend eternity exploring the universe, trying to prove me wrong, and hey, free universe.

The universe is insanely huge. At any probability short of "God made us this way" for our evolved intelligence, there's going to be multiples across that area. Maybe not even in the same supercluster.

As I said, we may never meet another intelligent species. We may even, though less likely, not find any other life.

And, notably, "we" being anyone of our generation is essentially certain not to.


Yep.
 
2014-02-03 05:26:36 PM
Let's break this down thusly:


Given the size of the Universe, the likelihood of the existence of extraterrestrial intelligence is pretty certain, however given the size of the Universe, the likelihood that we will find any (or they find us) is almost no chance. That doesn't mean we should stop looking, just that the odds are fairly depressing.

Everything we know about what life needs to exist suggests that the presence of life is probably a relatively recent phenomenon in the Universe. The only element robust enough to foster life is carbon which can only come from the cores of stars. Stars need to explode, die off, and eject their heavy matter to make planets and then life.

The early Universe was too hot and the early Stellar Era had no heavy elements (despite what Loeb suggests). If life does exist out there, it's probably very young life that has only arrived very recently, like ours. If life is an overwhelming statistical inevitability, we might actually be the first of our kind - the earliest life-form to be consciously aware of its own existence and develop the means of escaping its home planet. As the Universe ages and more stars recycle heavy elements, the propensity for life existing elsewhere increases. That won't happen for hundreds of millions of years, however. We might be very lonely trailblazers. This is all highly speculative.

That other life hasn't contacted us is no indication that it does not exist. Distances in space are impossibly vast and it's a bit presumptuous to assume that other life is even trying to find us in the first place (or even wants to).

Furthermore, there's the Fermi paradox: That intelligent life in the Universe has such a short interstellar window that it goes extinct before it finds anyone else. Any advanced interstellar civilization that peaks and declines - possibly in a drastic way - in the order of thousands of years would appear as a mere blip-flash event to the cosmos at large; a flare-up of radiometry and extra-solar traffic rendered too short, too small, and too insignificant by the vastness of space to be detectable by anyone. A space-faring species would need to be around for tens of millions of years before anything else might detect it.

The one thing the Fermi paradox might be suggesting isn't that there is no life out there but rather that traveling and/or communicating through space is very, very hard.
 
2014-02-03 05:28:23 PM

Fano: Semper IvXx: Fano: GanjSmokr: This is silly.  We earthlings are the only ones in this universe.  There are no "aliens" anywhere.  It's just us.


/some people actually believe this.

Well, where are they? Please tell us your thoughts on the Fermi Paradox.

"We haven't found them yet" is the weakest possible argument against alien life.

The universe is big. Real big. We only see a small part of it. A very small part. Humanity not being able to detect something means very little to the chances of its existence.

We might find them, someday. But your argument goes for God, Leprechauns, Unicorns, and Yeti.


Where do the unicorns, leprechauns, and yeti live? Can we look there and see if there are any?

If so, than the argument has nothing to do with those things. "We can't see it" means absolutely nothing in terms of space. It doesn't prove or disprove the existence of aliens.

"We haven't found it on Earth" carries substantially more weight against the existence of unicorns, yeti, and leprechauns.

/God can't be proven or disproven so that's a pointless argument
 
2014-02-03 05:29:38 PM

Boojum2k: Crotchrocket Slim: excuse you from engaging in making unconfirmed assumptions of your own

It's a safe bet. We could spend eternity exploring the universe, trying to prove me wrong, and hey, free universe.

The universe is insanely huge. At any probability short of "God made us this way" for our evolved intelligence, there's going to be multiples across that area. Maybe not even in the same supercluster.

As I said, we may never meet another intelligent species. We may even, though less likely, not find any other life.


This is like the "invest your life savings into Bitcoins after the Chinese government decides not to allow them to be traded in the country" version of "safe bets", isn't it? You completely contradict yourself, and frankly your position requires proof of alien life existing whereas mine is a neutral "we don't know so assuming either way reveals you to be an ass" position.

In the sense that it's possible alien life exists it's also possible that everyone you've ever met is simply a line of code in a computer and you're merely part of the Matrix. Well, until Lawrence FIshburne offers you a blue pill, trying to dodge bullets by force of will is a stupid thing to do and you should be mocked for doing so. Same applies here.
 
2014-02-03 05:29:49 PM
Saying alien life doesn't exist because we don't have proof of it is like saying global warming isn't a problem because it's cold outside.
 
2014-02-03 05:33:18 PM

Crotchrocket Slim: This is like the "invest your life savings into Bitcoins after the Chinese government decides not to allow them to be traded in the country" version of "safe bets", isn't it?


You're batting .000, good job staying consistent!

You have fundamental literacy issues and a severe difficulty understanding probability.
 
2014-02-03 05:35:35 PM
wac.450f.edgecastcdn.net
 
2014-02-03 05:41:43 PM

Ishkur: Let's break this down thusly:


Given the size of the Universe, the likelihood of the existence of extraterrestrial intelligence is pretty certain, however given the size of the Universe, the likelihood that we will find any (or they find us) is almost no chance. That doesn't mean we should stop looking, just that the odds are fairly depressing.

Everything we know about what life needs to exist suggests that the presence of life is probably a relatively recent phenomenon in the Universe. The only element robust enough to foster life is carbon which can only come from the cores of stars. Stars need to explode, die off, and eject their heavy matter to make planets and then life.

The early Universe was too hot and the early Stellar Era had no heavy elements (despite what Loeb suggests). If life does exist out there, it's probably very young life that has only arrived very recently, like ours. If life is an overwhelming statistical inevitability, we might actually be the first of our kind - the earliest life-form to be consciously aware of its own existence and develop the means of escaping its home planet. As the Universe ages and more stars recycle heavy elements, the propensity for life existing elsewhere increases. That won't happen for hundreds of millions of years, however. We might be very lonely trailblazers. This is all highly speculative.

That other life hasn't contacted us is no indication that it does not exist. Distances in space are impossibly vast and it's a bit presumptuous to assume that other life is even trying to find us in the first place (or even wants to).

Furthermore, there's the Fermi paradox: That intelligent life in the Universe has such a short interstellar window that it goes extinct before it finds anyone else. Any advanced interstellar civilization that peaks and declines - possibly in a drastic way - in the order of thousands of years would appear as a mere blip-flash event to the cosmos at large; a flare-up of radiometry and extra-so ...


This is where I point out that we can talk about mathematics and perceived likelyhood of things but without evidence one way or another this is just all intellectual masturbation which does not affect whether or not aliens do in fact exist.
 
2014-02-03 05:42:16 PM

Semper IvXx: The universe is big. Real big


I think it's a long walk down to the chemist's.
 
2014-02-03 05:44:06 PM

ikanreed: It becomes tricky, because all the other "moderately intelligent" species we have on the planet are mammals.  What is it about mammalian evolution that favored intelligence, and primate evolution that favored extraordinary intelligence(enough for speaking, writing, technology, civilization)?


Being warm blooded and live birth means bigger brains. Intelligence is just one aspect of the evolutionary arms race. We're not the only species that has the ability to communicate complex things, not even close. Bees can do it. Ants farm, take slaves, use antibiotics and individually an ant is basically so basic as to be basically a wee robot.
 
2014-02-03 05:45:42 PM

Crotchrocket Slim: We have as much evidence for the existence of aliens as we do for Odin slaying the Frost Giants and using their bodies to construct the world we live in


I'd say that the circumstantial evidence is considerably stronger in much the same way there were plenty of folks who had confidence we would find extrasolar planets before we ever spotted one (or their shadows/wobbles indirect evidence).  Just curious but what was your opinion of the existence of such planets before we started finding evidence?  Did you equally dismiss those as being as likely as frost giants?

The circumstantial is that we have a decent understanding of how things work here and there is no clear reason to assume that things won't work similarly elsewhere.  Add in some basic precepts of probability, that even with a very low likelihood of life appearing on any given planet, multiply by the likely possible candidate planets out there and it starts to look odd if something else *isnt* out there.  Strictly put its not "evidence" but it is logic and I'm wondering if you're arguing for nothing more than argument's sake.

IMO, life is not isolated to earth, its out there and its likely out there in considerable numbers.  Its also in a big, big universe with the distinct possibility that any given "life outbreak" might never encounter another such outbreak.  On a tangential note I'd be surprised if we didn't find life on other planets in our own solar system, if only from panspermic seeding (which planet or moon contained the "original" outbreak, who knows).  These are all beliefs of mine, I'm not stating them as empirical truths, but I believe the knowledge we possess makes these beliefs a possibility.
 
2014-02-03 05:45:46 PM

Scrotastic Method: Saying alien life doesn't exist because we don't have proof of it is like saying global warming isn't a problem because it's cold outside.


I'm not saying life doesn't exist outside of Earth; those making the affirmative argument that alien life MUST exist purely from mathematical constructs and without, you know, actual evidence are imbeciles. You're like some physicist discussing economics and failing to explain why increasing or decreasing the supply of 8 track tapes has no bearing on their demand among hipsters who were left behind with the digital music revolution.
 
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