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(Washington Post)   Rich people are not the reason poor people are poor, so let's stop victimizing the rich through draconian taxes and inflammatory rhetoric and work on real solutions for income inequality, like giving the top 1 percent a tax cut   (washingtonpost.com ) divider line
    More: Obvious, income inequality, poor people, tax cuts, wealths, disposable income, rhetoric, labor force  
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1584 clicks; posted to Politics » on 03 Feb 2014 at 2:42 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-02-03 03:47:05 PM  

Lcpl_Dunno: 2. Stop demanding that they should get punished for success


nobody is saying that. Rather, people are saying people should be punished for obtaining great personal wealth at a great cost to society, via that society's collective effort and on the backs of millions that loved their country and actually paid their share.
 
2014-02-03 03:47:34 PM  
Bareefer Obonghit:

Came to say this. You win.
 
2014-02-03 03:48:08 PM  
Poor people are poor because our cultural defines "fair" with "the outcomes of free market capitalism", mistakes "free market capitalism" ideology for the corporatist reality, and absolves itself of any moral consequences of it's economic priorities and activities by ascribing them to the unfortunate necessary consequences of the invisible hand of the market, if they even believe that the free market can produce negative consequences.  If they don't, they are forced to conclude that person's poverty is a failure of will, morality, or constitution... why else would a free, fair market discard someone unless they were somehow defective?

It's an obnoxious and insidious meme-complex.
 
2014-02-03 03:48:25 PM  
Between the two of us, there is a table with 50 burgers on it. Through various means, the analogy is made increasingly literal and picked apart pedantically to the point that the original poster of the analogy is probably regretting not putting in several more details to make the situation reflect reality more closely. The intent of the analogy is lost as the literal interpretation of the situation as posited is picked apart separate from the issue the analogy is attempting to describe. The tortoise lays on its back, its belly baking in the hot sun, beating its legs trying to turn itself over, but it can't. Not without your help. But you're not helping. Why is that, Leon?
 
2014-02-03 03:54:23 PM  

Bloody William: Between the two of us, there is a table with 50 burgers on it. Through various means, the analogy is made increasingly literal and picked apart pedantically to the point that the original poster of the analogy is probably regretting not putting in several more details to make the situation reflect reality more closely. The intent of the analogy is lost as the literal interpretation of the situation as posited is picked apart separate from the issue the analogy is attempting to describe. The tortoise lays on its back, its belly baking in the hot sun, beating its legs trying to turn itself over, but it can't. Not without your help. But you're not helping. Why is that, Leon?


What do you mean I'm not helping?
 
2014-02-03 03:54:27 PM  

Lcpl_Dunno:
1. I don't think the rich should get some massive tax break for no damned reason

The rich do, and have been lobbying hard and successfully to ensure that their gains from other people's productivity are explicitly taxed less. This is a way of rigging the system.

2. Stop demanding that they should get punished for success

When "success" includes being bailed out by the tax payer, sweetheart Federal contracts, rampant cronysim, lobbying to create barriers for new market entrants, and assorted overseas banking shenanigans, it's well past time people were punished.

3. While your analogy is still stupid, thinking even remotely outside the box has given options to your poor kid in which much risk is involved, but will turn reward if fruitful ... kinda like any other business venture.

We're not talking about getting rich here, we're talking about keeping afloat, and when that's not a tenable situation for an American working any full time job, that's a serious systemic flaw. The degradation of bargaining rights has robbed the average worker of leverage in labor/salary negotiations.

4. The truly poor generally are in that position due to a systemic issue of bad choices. Staying there or getting out are equally available options if one wants to put in the work.

This is not true. The whole fundamental promise of the American dream is available to fewer and fewer Americans as wages stay depressed, and jobs remain scarce. Blaming the victim is about the fastest way to convince the poor that the rich have no interest in good faith negotiation with the working class, and that the system is and will continue to remain rigged. 

Lcpl_Dunno: All of this is a pretty ridiculous set of assertions.


Pot, meet kettle.
 
2014-02-03 03:54:36 PM  

whidbey: If we don't keep the 1% in the range they are right now, without room to become even more successful, we may put the economy of this country in jeopardy.

Prove me wrong.


Stupid troll is stupid.
 
2014-02-03 03:55:21 PM  

sobriquet by any other name: Lcpl_Dunno: 2. Stop demanding that they should get punished for success

nobody is saying that. Rather, people are saying people should be punished for obtaining great personal wealth at a great cost to society, via that society's collective effort and on the backs of millions that loved their country and actually paid their share.


nobody even needs to be "punished" unless punishment is just them paying some farking taxes to alleviate some of the burden on the middle class.
 
2014-02-03 03:58:49 PM  
Since I'm on my phone and can't selectively quote:

Table 2 is an offshore bank account. You know, the kind you can't open without substantial capital.

My analogy is: some people are born on third, but believe they hit a triple because they stay on third. They're not stealing home, they say, so why should they be "punished" by being ever so clever?

It's facile to say that everyone can be a capitalist in a capitalist society. It's true in general terms, yes, but EXTERNALITIES make it an outright lie. Some people are born poor. Some people miss opportunities for various reasons, not all of them blameworthy. Sometimes shiat just happens in people's lives. A random illness. Car wreck. Bad emotional breakup in college. Whatever.

Other times people have the talent and smarts but not the opportunity, through accident of birth. It's all well and good to say that if you try really hard, you can succeed, but that's a lie, and anyone saying it has started on third while believing he hit a triple.

So when you ask, "well why doesn't our poor burger grabber cut a deal with the restaurant owner?" Because the owner (federal government) doesn't want to cut a deal with the poor guy. The poor guy has fark all to offer the government. The rich guys are financing reelection campaigns and lobbyist positions. The poor guy has a family to feed and a sick mom without health insurance whose house is underwater on the mortgage.

The rich guy asks the poor guy why he doesn't just turn his yearly income into stock and live off the residuals from an interest bearing account in Switzerland. The poor guy says, "because my father wasn't rich!"

The rich guy counters, "well neither was my dad, but thanks to the post war opportunity he got he was able to build himself up!"

The poor guy reminds the rich guy that the dream of rags to riches died in the 80s when the rich decided they were good and weren't accepting new members.
 
2014-02-03 04:00:55 PM  

Lcpl_Dunno: Stop demanding that they should get punished for success


No one's suggesting they are or should be.  What we're saying is that their incessant demands that they pay a smaller and smaller share of the tax burden is more than a little disingenuous.  The obscenely wealthy did NOT get that way (by and large) by their own hard work (People like Buffet, Gates, Bezos, etc.etc are exceptions) They got that way the old-fashioned way:  They inherited it, or only had the opportunities they did because of mommy and daddy's connections. When I hear them whine about their tax rate, I can't help but think of a few quotes from history on the subject.


"I love paying my taxes.  With them, I buy civilization"
- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Aristotle, etc.etc.  Many variants of this theme throughout history, but none more perfectly summed up than in an 1848 memo to the US congress regarding taxes

"Taxation is the price of social order"

Or this one, from an 1863 committee report:

"If we are correct in the position that taxation is the price or penalty exacted by the requirements of civilization and the necessity of regulated liberty of thought, action and property, we cannot conclude that such price or penalty should be as light as possible compatible with the ends in view; ..."

Perhaps this one from an 1866 book "Christian Ethics":
A man's taxes are what he pays for the protection of his life and property, and for the conditions of public prosperity in which he shares. He ought to pay his just portion of the expense of government.

or in 1903:

Taxation is the price which civilized communities pay for the opportunity of remaining civilized.

or 1916:

"Only the savage pays no taxes."
 
2014-02-03 04:01:19 PM  

Bloody William: . But you're not helping. Why is that, Leon?


What color is this tortoise?  because a red tortoise killed my father.   The sucker fell off a 50 story building and right on his head.  To heck with all red tortoises.
 
2014-02-03 04:01:42 PM  
Also, I don't think the rich are going to fix it. I think history operates according to empirical principles, which say that if the rich don't stop rigging the game, a revolution results.

I think we will see a lite-socialist revolution in this country before 2030.
 
2014-02-03 04:02:44 PM  

Obama's Reptiloid Master: Also, I don't think the rich are going to fix it. I think history operates according to empirical principles, which say that if the rich don't stop rigging the game, a revolution results.

I think we will see a lite-socialist revolution in this country before 2030.


Baloney.  Every major revolution(except the first american revolution) in recent history has coincided with a famine.
 
2014-02-03 04:04:42 PM  

ikanreed: Obama's Reptiloid Master: Also, I don't think the rich are going to fix it. I think history operates according to empirical principles, which say that if the rich don't stop rigging the game, a revolution results.

I think we will see a lite-socialist revolution in this country before 2030.

Baloney.  Every major revolution(except the first american revolution) in recent history has coincided with a famine.


And yet the geniuses in the GOP keep cutting food stamps...

/Bread and circuses, you morons, it's only two damn things to remember.
 
2014-02-03 04:08:43 PM  

jst3p: meat0918: jst3p: meat0918: jayhawk88: Among men 25 to 55 with a high school diploma or less, the share with jobs fell from more than 90 percent in 1970 to less than 75 percent in 2010, reports   . For African American men ages 20 to 24, less than half were working.

Reasons aside, those numbers - if accurate - are farking frightening.

They are, but it is a reflection of a changing labor market.  Wealth concentrating at the top hasn't helped, but I feel he's taking the results from that change and saying "Pay no attention to the fact all the the vast majority of the wealth generated in the last 40 years has been concentrated in a small percentage of the population."

I'd also wager the percentage of the population with a high school diploma or less has fallen since the 70's too.

Still looking for a graph that goes back that far.

[thf_media.s3.amazonaws.com image 726x475]

That graph has no label.

Sorry:

PERCENT OF ADULTS AGE 25 AND OLDER WITH AT LEAST A HIGH SCHOOL DEGREE

http://www.familyfacts.org/charts/545/the-majority-of-adults-in-the- un ited-states-have-high-school-degrees


thanks.

I realize I farked up up there, and read "less than a high school diploma" not "high school diploma or less".

My reading comprehension is fading the older I get.  I'm starting to worry.
 
2014-02-03 04:08:56 PM  
You 47% don't pay taxes either. You live off of the other 53% that do pay taxes, deadbeat. What are you biatching about?
 
2014-02-03 04:09:29 PM  

sifr: Bloody William: Between the two of us, there is a table with 50 burgers on it. Through various means, the analogy is made increasingly literal and picked apart pedantically to the point that the original poster of the analogy is probably regretting not putting in several more details to make the situation reflect reality more closely. The intent of the analogy is lost as the literal interpretation of the situation as posited is picked apart separate from the issue the analogy is attempting to describe. The tortoise lays on its back, its belly baking in the hot sun, beating its legs trying to turn itself over, but it can't. Not without your help. But you're not helping. Why is that, Leon?

What do you mean I'm not helping?


I mean you're not helping. Why is that, Leon? They're just answers. In answer to your query, they're written down for me.
 
2014-02-03 04:10:58 PM  

UrukHaiGuyz: ikanreed: Obama's Reptiloid Master: Also, I don't think the rich are going to fix it. I think history operates according to empirical principles, which say that if the rich don't stop rigging the game, a revolution results.

I think we will see a lite-socialist revolution in this country before 2030.

Baloney.  Every major revolution(except the first american revolution) in recent history has coincided with a famine.

And yet the geniuses in the GOP keep cutting food stamps...

/Bread and circuses, you morons, it's only two damn things to remember.


My point exactly.

The next time get a Republican executive and congress, I predict famine to be the result. They'll keep cutting taxes and welfare spending and privatizing social security and wonder just why it is people are starving.

When you make a man's children go hungry, he forgets to be civil. When enough people forget to be civil, you end up with the sorts of protests we see around the world right now.

As long as the US can keep a protest/revolution from being hijacked by nationalists (cough Ukraine cough), it'll be a center-left/left coalition that rides the protests into power (and probably non-violent).
 
2014-02-03 04:11:03 PM  
Why does this all remind me of that heartbreaking story we all got to hear during the last election?  You know, when the Romney's, struggling through college, were reduced to such dire poverty that he had to sell some shares of stock just to get by.  Sad.  Truly sad.

http://www.samefacts.com/2012/01/everything-else/mitt-romney-and-ann -t he-students-struggling-so-much-that-they-had-to-sell-stock/

From the article:  "a few thousand" dollars invested at $6/share.  Call it 500 shares (AMC).  They sold shares at $96/share to get by.  (For perspective, their rent was $62/month). Their 'nest egg' amounted to something like $48K in 1970's dollars.  (Something like $377K in todays dollars.)

It was a heartbreaking story.
 
2014-02-03 04:11:22 PM  
Say I had 4 burgers and one tube sock, then what?
 
2014-02-03 04:12:39 PM  

Pick: You 47% don't pay taxes either. You live off of the other 53% that do pay taxes, deadbeat. What are you biatching about?


Mitt Romney is that you?
 
2014-02-03 04:12:49 PM  

ikanreed: Obama's Reptiloid Master: Also, I don't think the rich are going to fix it. I think history operates according to empirical principles, which say that if the rich don't stop rigging the game, a revolution results.

I think we will see a lite-socialist revolution in this country before 2030.

Baloney.  Every major revolution(except the first american revolution) in recent history has coincided with a famine.


I don't think there will be a revolution or overthrow, but there might be large protests for reform, both politically and economically. Especially if the market craps out again, or recession comes back around.
 
2014-02-03 04:13:29 PM  

Pick: You 47% don't pay taxes either. You live off of the other 53% that do pay taxes, deadbeat. What are you biatching about?


So what you're saying is... you're an idiot.
 
2014-02-03 04:16:47 PM  

FarkedOver: Say I had 4 burgers and one tube sock, then what?


You place the burgers into the tubesock and use it like a blackjack on the banksters.
 
2014-02-03 04:18:34 PM  

Saiga410: FarkedOver: Say I had 4 burgers and one tube sock, then what?

You place the burgers into the tubesock and use it like a blackjack on the banksters.


As gratifying as that would be, it would also be a terrific waste of a 4 perfectly good burgers and a tube sock.  Can we just cheer them on as they jump from their ivory towers?
 
2014-02-03 04:19:12 PM  

Obama's Reptiloid Master: Since I'm on my phone and can't selectively quote:

Table 2 is an offshore bank account. You know, the kind you can't open without substantial capital.

My analogy is: some people are born on third, but believe they hit a triple because they stay on third. They're not stealing home, they say, so why should they be "punished" by being ever so clever?

It's facile to say that everyone can be a capitalist in a capitalist society. It's true in general terms, yes, but EXTERNALITIES make it an outright lie. Some people are born poor. Some people miss opportunities for various reasons, not all of them blameworthy. Sometimes shiat just happens in people's lives. A random illness. Car wreck. Bad emotional breakup in college. Whatever.

Other times people have the talent and smarts but not the opportunity, through accident of birth. It's all well and good to say that if you try really hard, you can succeed, but that's a lie, and anyone saying it has started on third while believing he hit a triple.

So when you ask, "well why doesn't our poor burger grabber cut a deal with the restaurant owner?" Because the owner (federal government) doesn't want to cut a deal with the poor guy. The poor guy has fark all to offer the government. The rich guys are financing reelection campaigns and lobbyist positions. The poor guy has a family to feed and a sick mom without health insurance whose house is underwater on the mortgage.

The rich guy asks the poor guy why he doesn't just turn his yearly income into stock and live off the residuals from an interest bearing account in Switzerland. The poor guy says, "because my father wasn't rich!"

The rich guy counters, "well neither was my dad, but thanks to the post war opportunity he got he was able to build himself up!"

The poor guy reminds the rich guy that the dream of rags to riches died in the 80s when the rich decided they were good and weren't accepting new members.


So much of what you are describing as "not his fault" are the results of bad choices. While the sick issue is one that everyone jumps on ... are you really claiming that 99% (occupy reference, not really accurate assessment of ...anything really) of people have had a sickness that precludes them from hard work? A car accident is the result of a choice to drive (comes up as not a right all the time in gun debates) and as sad as that is, this would preclude you for ... months? Years maybe? A lifetime? Probably no. While this might preclude you from a lifetime of back breaking labor, that is not generally defined as a method of getting "rich". A bad emotional breakup on college doesn't preclude you from anything really, unless YOU let it. While you may have missed ONE opportunity at that exact moment due to lack of vigilance ON YOUR OWN PART, that does not preclude you from any future opportunity and further more ought to make one more vigilant (for having missed once in the passed) to those opportunities arising. Whatever isn't quite counter-able, but I would suggest the same method of taking responsibility and work would answer sufficiently.

Since apparently the burger analogy has been "picked apart" and I was wrong for doing so ... I guess I should leave that alone. To be fair I wasn't intending to illustrate that the situation you were describing was wrong, but rather that it had options for creation of opportunity available to it.

The rich guy asking the poor guy why he doesn't turn his yearly income to assets is reasonable ... I guess. To be fair the "poor guy" probably lives an overly lavish lifestyle (considering his income) to make this happen. He makes a choice to own an iPad instead of save the money and invest somewhere. While that investment may not pay off immediately or even at all; the iPad NEVER will (as a business tool aside, purely entertainment use of iPad described). While this life style does not include personal jets or 200,000 cars it is still one that is alterable to suit the needs of wealth gain. This could (potentially with lot's of work viewing investments) set the poor guy up as fairly well off at the very least. I happen to know a couple of people who started this sort of venture off of US military salaries, so I am going to guess that being a billionaire to begin with is not required. (Before one of you says luck, the guy described adamantly refuses to accept that. He has put in hours watching markets and makes deals accordingly).

This sort of sacrifice was initially made by rich guys parents, thus he has wealth at birth. While that guy is a douche, that doesn't change that the ability to work for what you want has not perished (as of yet) and if rags to riches had ceased to exist in the 80's then Google, Facebook, Yahoo, Youtube, and anyone else (who I have forgotten) should not exist and their founders should not be rich. While these are all tech start ups, they remain a great example of how to look outside of the general method (banking in the 80s) of generating wealth. While not everyone has the great invention of the next century on the tips of their tongues, they probably have the ability to work for themselves in the evenings on something that would produce wealth in some fashion.

To a lot of the rest of you. I'm not apologizing for anyone. The rich can apologize for themselves if they feel bad about how they got their money. While I have no interest in discussing with many of you the topic at hand, I do note that basically none of you actually argue the point. Make fun of me? Sure. Curse others? You betcha. Have a legitimate argument? No. This is why these issues can't be decided in any real fashion. You want someone to blame and not a solution. Your choice I guess.
 
2014-02-03 04:20:32 PM  

Saiga410: FarkedOver: Say I had 4 burgers and one tube sock, then what?

You place the burgers into the tubesock and use it like a blackjack on the banksters.


Then you make them into burgers and pretty soon your burger portfolio is looking up!
 
2014-02-03 04:20:39 PM  
I'm terribly sorry that the rich are ashamed at having so many more magnitudes of obscene and unnecessary wealth. The fleeting guilt mixed with greedy sociopathy is not enough to save their souls however, no matter how many bullshiat articles apologists write.

Own it: you think you deserve to be above all others, ethics apply not if there's money involved.... YOU ARE SPECIAL and obscene wastes of money or hoarding it are your BIRTHRIGHT. Sure, people are starving or out of work, fark 'em!

You got yours, that's what's important.

Greedy, sociopathic narcissists. I'm getting tired of these 'don't be mean to the wealthy, proles' submissions. Push that camel through the needle farkers.
 
2014-02-03 04:22:17 PM  

inclemency: I'm terribly sorry that the rich are ashamed at having so many more magnitudes of obscene and unnecessary wealth. The fleeting guilt mixed with greedy sociopathy is not enough to save their souls however, no matter how many bullshiat articles apologists write.

Own it: you think you deserve to be above all others, ethics apply not if there's money involved.... YOU ARE SPECIAL and obscene wastes of money or hoarding it are your BIRTHRIGHT. Sure, people are starving or out of work, fark 'em!

You got yours, that's what's important.

Greedy, sociopathic narcissists. I'm getting tired of these 'don't be mean to the wealthy, proles' submissions. Push that camel through the needle farkers.


"They were careless people, Tom and Daisy--they smashed up things and creatures and then retreated back to their money or their vast carelessness, or whatever it was that kept them together, and let other people clean up the mess they had made..."
 
2014-02-03 04:23:59 PM  

inclemency: I'm terribly sorry that the rich are ashamed at having so many more magnitudes of obscene and unnecessary wealth. The fleeting guilt mixed with greedy sociopathy is not enough to save their souls however, no matter how many bullshiat articles apologists write.

Own it: you think you deserve to be above all others, ethics apply not if there's money involved.... YOU ARE SPECIAL and obscene wastes of money or hoarding it are your BIRTHRIGHT. Sure, people are starving or out of work, fark 'em!

You got yours, that's what's important.

Greedy, sociopathic narcissists. I'm getting tired of these 'don't be mean to the wealthy, proles' submissions. Push that camel through the needle farkers.


Do you think expressing extraordinary anger aids your position?
 
2014-02-03 04:24:52 PM  

inclemency: I'm terribly sorry that the rich are ashamed at having so many more magnitudes of obscene and unnecessary wealth. The fleeting guilt mixed with greedy sociopathy is not enough to save their souls however, no matter how many bullshiat articles apologists write.

Own it: you think you deserve to be above all others, ethics apply not if there's money involved.... YOU ARE SPECIAL and obscene wastes of money or hoarding it are your BIRTHRIGHT. Sure, people are starving or out of work, fark 'em!

You got yours, that's what's important.

Greedy, sociopathic narcissists. I'm getting tired of these 'don't be mean to the wealthy, proles' submissions. Push that camel through the needle farkers.


People aren't hungry enough yet.

If they keep cutting food stamps while food prices continue to go up, and you'll see the change happen, and it has a good chance of not being pretty.

California's drought is going to hit a lot of people in the pocket book this year for fruits and vegetables, just like the Texas drought and their beef cattle cull a year or two ago hit beef prices.
 
2014-02-03 04:28:18 PM  
If you think that someone who got injured in a car wreck deserves to be poor because he's unable to work because he made the poor choice to drive, then god help you.

If you think some people are poor because they looked at the wealth of educational options their rural or inner city guidance counselor told them about and said, "nah, fark it, paycheck to paycheck it is!" then god help us all.

Even if someone makes a stupid choice (running up a moderate amount of credit card debt when young, or getting addicted to drugs, or a bad relationship), then seriously fark you if you would write someone off for a mistake.

I'm sure you've lived your life careful and cautious and error free, always making perfect decisions and always doing everything for yourself without no help from nobody, but seriously, quit extrapolating your situation to everyone else. Try seeing stuff from the other guy's perspective and for god's sake look at your own privilege before you start yanking those bootstraps.
 
2014-02-03 04:29:11 PM  

meat0918: inclemency: I'm terribly sorry that the rich are ashamed at having so many more magnitudes of obscene and unnecessary wealth. The fleeting guilt mixed with greedy sociopathy is not enough to save their souls however, no matter how many bullshiat articles apologists write.

Own it: you think you deserve to be above all others, ethics apply not if there's money involved.... YOU ARE SPECIAL and obscene wastes of money or hoarding it are your BIRTHRIGHT. Sure, people are starving or out of work, fark 'em!

You got yours, that's what's important.

Greedy, sociopathic narcissists. I'm getting tired of these 'don't be mean to the wealthy, proles' submissions. Push that camel through the needle farkers.

People aren't hungry enough yet.

If they keep cutting food stamps while food prices continue to go up, and you'll see the change happen, and it has a good chance of not being pretty.

California's drought is going to hit a lot of people in the pocket book this year for fruits and vegetables, just like the Texas drought and their beef cattle cull a year or two ago hit beef prices.


The poor are unable to get access to fruits and vegetables now so what is the bfd if the price of them skyrocket?
 
2014-02-03 04:30:09 PM  

Lcpl_Dunno: To be fair the "poor guy" probably lives an overly lavish lifestyle (considering his income) to make this happen.


"Of all the preposterous assumptions of humanity over humanity, nothing exceeds most of the criticisms made on the habits of the poor by the well-housed, well-warmed, and well-fed." -Herman Melville
 
2014-02-03 04:31:22 PM  

nmrsnr: When defending the richest Americans, try not to have a comically villainous mustache.

[www.washingtonpost.com image 114x80]


Looks like that HR dude from the Onion
 
2014-02-03 04:31:59 PM  

Lcpl_Dunno: actually argue the point.


I argued four of your explicit points, without name-calling. The problem with your arguments is that they rest on premises derived from stereotypes.

You saying that the poor are most likely poor due to bad decisions is not a fact, it's a meme that has been pushed by the wealthy and those who speak for them. I'm not saying people don't become poor as a result of bad decisions: that happens every day.

HOWEVER, assuming that all (or most) poor people are lazy/incompetent/morally deficient is a cruel stereotype that doesn't hold up to scrutiny. Most people want to work, and many who do can't make ends meet on the salaries available, even when working full time/multiple jobs. This is also why cries of "class warfare" from the rich are so laughably out of touch.
 
2014-02-03 04:37:12 PM  

ikanreed: inclemency: I'm terribly sorry that the rich are ashamed at having so many more magnitudes of obscene and unnecessary wealth. The fleeting guilt mixed with greedy sociopathy is not enough to save their souls however, no matter how many bullshiat articles apologists write.

Own it: you think you deserve to be above all others, ethics apply not if there's money involved.... YOU ARE SPECIAL and obscene wastes of money or hoarding it are your BIRTHRIGHT. Sure, people are starving or out of work, fark 'em!

You got yours, that's what's important.

Greedy, sociopathic narcissists. I'm getting tired of these 'don't be mean to the wealthy, proles' submissions. Push that camel through the needle farkers.

Do you think expressing extraordinary anger aids your position?


More and more people are really, really pissed off.  Right now they are content to point their fingers at "the other side" but a galvanizing event could tip the scales pretty damn quickly.
 I think we're a long way off from that point in the US though.
 
2014-02-03 04:38:18 PM  

Mr. Eugenides: FarkedOver: The rich need people to be poor.  They need the unemployed.  The fact that they need these things is exactly why they do everything in their power to make sure it is that way.

Care to explain why the rich need people to be poor and unemployed?


They don't necessarily NEED people to be poor, but often people become poor as a result of what the wealthy do to get wealthy.

Case in point, look at the hundreds of thousands of middle class jobs and small business that have been destroyed by the Walton family, and replaced with poverty-wage jobs.  That's a clear-cut case of a single family making billions of dollars by shifting a large number of people from the middle class into poverty.
 
2014-02-03 04:38:33 PM  

meat0918: ikanreed: inclemency: I'm terribly sorry that the rich are ashamed at having so many more magnitudes of obscene and unnecessary wealth. The fleeting guilt mixed with greedy sociopathy is not enough to save their souls however, no matter how many bullshiat articles apologists write.

Own it: you think you deserve to be above all others, ethics apply not if there's money involved.... YOU ARE SPECIAL and obscene wastes of money or hoarding it are your BIRTHRIGHT. Sure, people are starving or out of work, fark 'em!

You got yours, that's what's important.

Greedy, sociopathic narcissists. I'm getting tired of these 'don't be mean to the wealthy, proles' submissions. Push that camel through the needle farkers.

Do you think expressing extraordinary anger aids your position?

More and more people are really, really pissed off.  Right now they are content to point their fingers at "the other side" but a galvanizing event could tip the scales pretty damn quickly.
 I think we're a long way off from that point in the US though.


If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention, but a lot of the people who are outraged are also clearly not paying attention.
 
2014-02-03 04:38:44 PM  

ikanreed: inclemency: I'm terribly sorry that the rich are ashamed at having so many more magnitudes of obscene and unnecessary wealth. The fleeting guilt mixed with greedy sociopathy is not enough to save their souls however, no matter how many bullshiat articles apologists write.

Own it: you think you deserve to be above all others, ethics apply not if there's money involved.... YOU ARE SPECIAL and obscene wastes of money or hoarding it are your BIRTHRIGHT. Sure, people are starving or out of work, fark 'em!

You got yours, that's what's important.

Greedy, sociopathic narcissists. I'm getting tired of these 'don't be mean to the wealthy, proles' submissions. Push that camel through the needle farkers.

Do you think expressing extraordinary anger aids your position?


Likely not, but playing nice in this instance has proven futile time and time again.

Doubling down instead of meekly apologizing for your MAJOR transgressions on the overall populace is something only narcissists could do. It's disturbing.
 
2014-02-03 04:41:09 PM  

Saiga410: meat0918: inclemency: I'm terribly sorry that the rich are ashamed at having so many more magnitudes of obscene and unnecessary wealth. The fleeting guilt mixed with greedy sociopathy is not enough to save their souls however, no matter how many bullshiat articles apologists write.

Own it: you think you deserve to be above all others, ethics apply not if there's money involved.... YOU ARE SPECIAL and obscene wastes of money or hoarding it are your BIRTHRIGHT. Sure, people are starving or out of work, fark 'em!

You got yours, that's what's important.

Greedy, sociopathic narcissists. I'm getting tired of these 'don't be mean to the wealthy, proles' submissions. Push that camel through the needle farkers.

People aren't hungry enough yet.

If they keep cutting food stamps while food prices continue to go up, and you'll see the change happen, and it has a good chance of not being pretty.

California's drought is going to hit a lot of people in the pocket book this year for fruits and vegetables, just like the Texas drought and their beef cattle cull a year or two ago hit beef prices.

The poor are unable to get access to fruits and vegetables now so what is the bfd if the price of them skyrocket?


It's not exactly just the poor I'm talking about here, but a combination of both poor and middle class, especially those middle class folk that are still relatively comfortable.

The food stamp cuts will make the poor that have them grumble.

The higher fruits and veggies prices will make people with more money grumble and ask "What the hell is going on?".
 
2014-02-03 04:42:45 PM  
It's not that we hate the rich.

It's that, to do many of the things we need to do to help the poor (education, shovel-ready jobs, etc) we have to have taxes.

And those taxes have to be on the rich.

Why do the taxes need to be on the rich, you might ask?

For the same reason that Jesse James robbed banks.  "That's where all the farking money is!"
 
2014-02-03 04:45:15 PM  

inclemency: Likely not, but playing nice in this instance has proven futile time and time again.

Doubling down instead of meekly apologizing for your MAJOR transgressions on the overall populace is something only narcissists could do. It's disturbing.


How do you fix it?
 
2014-02-03 04:48:42 PM  

meat0918: The food stamp cuts will make the poor that have them grumble.


But welfare does not interfere with people bringing forth their full economic pressure to recieve just compensation.
 
2014-02-03 04:52:00 PM  

Lcpl_Dunno: You want someone to blame and not a solution. Your choice I guess.


The blame and the solution are one in the same.

You do realize this game has been rigged for quite some time now. Crony capitalism isn't just a damning turn of phrase, there are volumes written on the issue. The investor class has been profiting unfairly off the working class for decades now. You get that right? This isn't some clever ruse formulated out of jealousy by the poor.

I mean have fun with your delusion that the rich are not directly to blame, but that's the reality.
 
2014-02-03 04:53:25 PM  

Pick: You 47% don't pay taxes either. You live off of the other 53% that do pay taxes, deadbeat. What are you biatching about?


That's not true, the bottom 47% pays an amount of taxes FAR out of proportion with the amount of wealth they possess, while the top earners that control 80% of the country's wealth pay only about 40% of the taxes.

I don't begrudge wealth, but at that point, you're obviously getting more than average out of the services provided by the government  (your property rights are FAR more expensive to maintain, you most likely have employees that rely heavily on public infrastructure to provide you with the labor you demand).

Just pay your fair share, already!
 
2014-02-03 04:54:04 PM  

ikanreed: inclemency: Likely not, but playing nice in this instance has proven futile time and time again.

Doubling down instead of meekly apologizing for your MAJOR transgressions on the overall populace is something only narcissists could do. It's disturbing.

How do you fix it?


Tax capital gains at a rate equal to or closer to income.
Increase the minimum wage.
Restore collective bargaining rights where they have been rolled back.
Reinstitute Glass-Steagall separation of commercial and investment banks.
Intense crackdowns on white-collar crimes.
Single payer healthcare.
Abandon the "War on Drugs" in favor of rehabilitation programs.
Criminalize predatory lending practices (payday loans, capping credit card interest rates, etc.)


Many more, but those would do a great deal to lift the poor out of poverty and protect them from those who prey on financial desperation, and to limit some of the worst abuses of the system by the wealthy.
 
2014-02-03 04:58:19 PM  

ikanreed: inclemency: Likely not, but playing nice in this instance has proven futile time and time again.

Doubling down instead of meekly apologizing for your MAJOR transgressions on the overall populace is something only narcissists could do. It's disturbing.

How do you fix it?


What makes you so sure we can?
 
2014-02-03 04:58:41 PM  

UrukHaiGuyz: ikanreed: inclemency: Likely not, but playing nice in this instance has proven futile time and time again.

Doubling down instead of meekly apologizing for your MAJOR transgressions on the overall populace is something only narcissists could do. It's disturbing.

How do you fix it?

Tax capital gains at a rate equal to or closer to income.
Increase the minimum wage.
Restore collective bargaining rights where they have been rolled back.
Reinstitute Glass-Steagall separation of commercial and investment banks.
Intense crackdowns on white-collar crimes.
Single payer healthcare.
Abandon the "War on Drugs" in favor of rehabilitation programs.
Criminalize predatory lending practices (payday loans, capping credit card interest rates, etc.)


Many more, but those would do a great deal to lift the poor out of poverty and protect them from those who prey on financial desperation, and to limit some of the worst abuses of the system by the wealthy.


That's how the government could fix it.  How do you fix it?  Or get the goverment to fix it?
 
2014-02-03 04:59:27 PM  

llortcM_yllort: ikanreed: inclemency: Likely not, but playing nice in this instance has proven futile time and time again.

Doubling down instead of meekly apologizing for your MAJOR transgressions on the overall populace is something only narcissists could do. It's disturbing.

How do you fix it?

What makes you so sure we can?


Nothing but my own willingness to work on it, given a good enough plan.
 
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