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(Science Daily)   Third-hand smoke kills exactly like first-hand smoke. Up next, your father's brother's nephew's cousin's former roommate's hand smoke   (sciencedaily.com) divider line 127
    More: Scary, secondhand smoke, animal experiments, roommates, biological systems, nephews, cousins, cell signaling, University of California  
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6235 clicks; posted to Main » on 03 Feb 2014 at 4:35 AM (25 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-02-03 12:19:25 AM
So everyone should take up smoking?
 
2014-02-03 12:27:07 AM
What utter bullsh*t
 
2014-02-03 12:35:09 AM
still better than a second hand rose
 
2014-02-03 12:36:09 AM
False.
 
2014-02-03 12:40:59 AM
WTF is third hand smoke?

/yeah, I ain't clicking the link
//because
 
2014-02-03 12:52:12 AM

HawgWild: WTF is third hand smoke?

/yeah, I ain't clicking the link
//because


It's where you let morons lie to gain political power because you want them to get smokers out of your restaurants, forget about the morons, and two decades later they've collapsed in on themselves in a cult of hatred and begun to believe their own lies.

Seriously, anti-smoking people are like the Klan at this point.
 
2014-02-03 12:55:19 AM
Suuuuuuure!
 
2014-02-03 12:59:19 AM

HawgWild: WTF is third hand smoke?

/yeah, I ain't clicking the link
//because


My thoughts as well.

/didnt a hand get skipped?
//I triple-dog dare you
 
2014-02-03 01:19:45 AM

HawgWild: WTF is third hand smoke?


I'm going to take a wild guess: it is the smell of smoke on your clothes after having spent time in an area with second hand smoke.

/also not bothering to RTFA
 
2014-02-03 01:51:50 AM
FTFA: "says a scientist at the University of California, Riverside who, along with colleagues, conducted the first animal study of the effects of third-hand smoke. "

So how did they get the first animal to smoke?

// go study your nonsense quietly, unemployed scientists
 
2014-02-03 02:21:34 AM
Third hand smoke is when you didnt clean a house before moving into it.

Dont move into a dirty house, fools.
 
2014-02-03 02:51:40 AM

mamoru: HawgWild: WTF is third hand smoke?

I'm going to take a wild guess: it is the smell of smoke on your clothes after having spent time in an area with second hand smoke.

/also not bothering to RTFA


It's the residue left after the smoke settles and dries.

I could see someone asking "What happens when we expose mice to surfaces that have been exposed to cigarette smoke?".

It feels like at some point we crossed a line from "Hmm, this is bad for you" to "EVERYTHING EVERYWHERE WILL KILL YOU!!!"
 
2014-02-03 03:01:32 AM
I accept that there may be increased risk from smoke and even it's residue.  I have a really hard time believing that third hand smoke is more dangerous to me than the first hand vehicle emissions I'm exposed to every goddamned day.
 
2014-02-03 03:21:04 AM
I thought there was an article not too long ago which stated second hand smoke risks were exaggerated.
 
2014-02-03 04:37:34 AM
What third-hand smoke might look like :

www.wired.com
 
2014-02-03 04:45:28 AM
What is 3rd hand smoke? Their description sounds a lot like what I thought 2nd hand smoke is. 

Either you smoke and get first hand smoke, or you don't smoke but are affected by the smoke put out by smokers, which is 2nd hand smoke, so how can there be a 3rd hand smoke? You're still a non-smoker being affected by the smoke from smokers, which makes you a 2nd hand smoker, not 3rd.
 
2014-02-03 04:50:37 AM
3rd hand smoke.....right,,, I'm not going to waste the time
 
2014-02-03 04:51:28 AM
I can accept there are carcinogens in smoke deposited on walls etc. What I question in the quantity taken up by 3rd parties.

Grampa's shed where he'd go to smoke his 60 unfiltered cigarettes a day might be an exception. Rolling cigarettes was his main hobby in retirement.
 
2014-02-03 04:54:10 AM
Ah, Subby... I see your Schwartz is as big as mine!
 
2014-02-03 04:57:22 AM
"...your father's brother's nephew's cousin's former roommate's hand smoke"

www.80s.com Thank you, Simone...
 
2014-02-03 04:57:57 AM

This About That: FTFA: "says a scientist at the University of California, Riverside who, along with colleagues, conducted the first animal study of the effects of third-hand smoke. "

So how did they get the first animal to smoke?

// go study your nonsense quietly, unemployed scientists


img.purseforum.com
 
2014-02-03 05:19:46 AM
Third-hand smoke kills exactly like first-hand smoke.

DNRTFA, but I'm guessing it was cancer
 
2014-02-03 05:20:19 AM

unyon: I accept that there may be increased risk from smoke and even it's residue.  I have a really hard time believing that third hand smoke is more dangerous to me than the first hand vehicle emissions I'm exposed to every goddamned day.


Well, that's because obviously the vehicle emissions are substantially worse for you.

We just don't talk about it because there isn't a crazy anti-car lobby where the benefit you get from feeling righteous indignation about "not driving a car" outweighs to pain in the ass that is not having a car. Instead we put little sticks on poles inside parking garages (if you live in California you'll know what I'm talking about).

True story: In my town, the air quality is really bad in the downtown area, so their solution: Not limit the thousands of busses and cars that go directly through the area daily, but to banish outdoor smoking in a 3 block strip down by the main mall.

Does anyone actually think this accomplished anything? My clothes are still black from vehicle exhaust when I get home.
 
2014-02-03 05:42:25 AM
Smoking isn't healthy.  We know this.  Lungs have evolved for a particular purpose, and breathing in large concentrations of particulate debris can overwhelm the lungs' ability to clean themselves out.
Smoking is addictive.  We know this.  Nicotine has neurological effects, taking in nicotine from an external source is rewarding and over time tolerances build up and more is needed for the same effect.
Smoking has been around for a long time.  Lots of people smoke.  Some people react worse than others, and some people have no obvious averse reactions at all.  Humans, like all other animals, are bad at making associations between events separated by long periods of time, so an activity that slowly weakens you over decades resulting in the possibility of an earlier death doesn't seem very dangerous.
Smoking makes smokers happy, and in a very immediate and unambiguous way.  This is a much stronger signal than the fact that smoking may harm smokers in a very vague and distant way.

Science can answer all sorts of questions, but an individual scientific experiment will usually only attempt answer one, very specific question, and that answer should be framed within the context of probability.  Let's look at the claims made by the article:
"second-hand smoke and third-hand smoke are just as deadly as first-hand smoke" - They did not compare mice exposed to all three kinds of smoke in this study, nor can one easily extrapolate the lives of laboratory mice in tightly controlled circumstances to humans living freely in the wild.  The dosages of known, harmful substances are likely drastically different in these three types of exposure.  The study does not support this statement in any way.
"third-hand smoke is the second-hand smoke that gets left on the surfaces of objects, ages over time and becomes progressively more toxic" - Ages is not an appropriate term for inanimate matter.  Toxic substances must be reactive for them to be toxic.  Reactive substances react over time and become something else, thus becoming progressively less toxic.  This statement doesn't make any sense unless they can elaborate and explain how something becomes progressively more toxic.
"under conditions that simulated third-hand smoke exposure of humans" - Without an accounting of how you correct for the fact that humans and mice interact with their environments very differently, any simulation is suspect.  Kids are nuts, but most of them don't rub their noses directly onto the floor and walls on a constant basis while searching for food.
"Research has shown that children living with one or two adults who smoke in the home, where second- and third-hand smoke are abundant, are absent 40 percent more days from school due to illness than children who did not live with smokers." - This is a different study, but there's a classic correlation / causation issue here.  If smokers' immune systems are compromised, they can get sick more often.  More specifically they cultivate more virus than a non-smoker.  Do their children get sick more often because of the effects of second- and third-hand smoke on the children's immune systems, or do they get sick more often because their parents get sick more often?

Personally I find cigarette smoke repugnant.  It makes me nauseous.  As a result I have generally negative perceptions of people who smoke.  So, I don't smoke, and I stay away from people who are smoking or smell like smoke.  You can complain that children don't have that choice.  Children can't choose their parents.  I would counter that, as sad as that may be, the state, or society, shouldn't choose for them either.
 
2014-02-03 05:54:32 AM
TwistedFark: True story: In my town, the air quality is really bad in the downtown area, so their solution: Not limit the thousands of busses and cars that go directly through the area daily, but to banish outdoor smoking in a 3 block strip down by the main mall.

Meanwhile....
i.imgur.com
 
2014-02-03 06:01:20 AM

mamoru: HawgWild: WTF is third hand smoke?

I'm going to take a wild guess: it is the smell of smoke on your clothes after having spent time in an area with second hand smoke.

/also not bothering to RTFA


I'm rhinking it's when someone takes a shotgun hit off a joint and then blows it in your face.
 
2014-02-03 06:01:54 AM
Not surprised.

I do caaregiving  and one of my ladies smokes. She doesn't do it when I am there, but I used to smell it on myself after I left.My throat would start to ache, and sometimes I got a headache. After awhile, my body adjusted some and it doesn't bother me so much now.When I wipe down surfaces,in her place it's not uncommon for the cloth to start getting sticky and off yellow.

I love how many people think smoke doesn't actually bother anyone and people just complain about it because they hate you. Uh yeah, smoke bothers sensitive people. In fact I am bothered by a lot of smells.I cn usually tolerate them for short durations though. I have to use Tide free because if I use regular on my laundry I  start coughing after a couple hours and will cough all night
 
2014-02-03 06:02:58 AM
Wait, so addicts think it's more important for them to "take the edge off" whenever and wherever they want, and the people who don't want their cancer are the Klan? Get out of town!

/it's not news, etc.
 
2014-02-03 06:03:48 AM
The anti-smoking crowd won a huge victory with the tobacco settlement years ago.  They have won legislatively from no smoking in airplanes to no smoking in the workplace to no smoking in bars - the list goes on.

However, just like the race hustlers, the environmental hustlers, the equal rights hustlers, once you've won, you're left with nothing to do; no reasons for grants or donations to your cause.  So you need to find a new wrinkle to exploit.  A new threat that requires massive donations and/or grants so that you, in your infinite wisdom and concern for all of humanity, can save the world from a fate worse than death.

Enter 3rd hand smoke.
 
2014-02-03 06:03:58 AM
More worried about 3rd hand radiation poisoning from Japan.
 
2014-02-03 06:13:29 AM

Mr. Right: The anti-smoking crowd won a huge victory with the tobacco settlement years ago.  They have won legislatively from no smoking in airplanes to no smoking in the workplace to no smoking in bars - the list goes on.

However, just like the race hustlers, the environmental hustlers, the equal rights hustlers, once you've won, you're left with nothing to do; no reasons for grants or donations to your cause.  So you need to find a new wrinkle to exploit.  A new threat that requires massive donations and/or grants so that you, in your infinite wisdom and concern for all of humanity, can save the world from a fate worse than death.

Enter 3rd hand smoke.


There are plenty of good, logical arguments to counter the current hysteria regarding smoking. The above rant is not one of them.
i18.photobucket.com
 
2014-02-03 06:14:31 AM

Hiro-ACiD: TwistedFark: True story: In my town, the air quality is really bad in the downtown area, so their solution: Not limit the thousands of busses and cars that go directly through the area daily, but to banish outdoor smoking in a 3 block strip down by the main mall.

Meanwhile....
[i.imgur.com image 640x368]


Exactly.  Everyone wants a scapegoat.  Smokers are an easy target as cancer causers, cause they're in the minority.  Heavily outnumbered by the people commuting alone in their personal vehicles, or the polluting corporations with millions to lobby.  The food you eat is covered in pesticides, GMO's, and hormones; the clothes you wear and mattress you sleep on are covered in flame-retardant chemicals; and the air you breathe is full of pollution.
I'm a former analog smoker, who's vaped for 2 years, constantly amazed by people who shove a chemical/hormone laden hamburger in their mouth (McDonalds); then tell me my habit is bad.
I agree that cigs stink and are offensive; but if people are outside.. stop b*tching unless you're willing to fix the other issues.  Vehicles stink, restaurants stink, sewage treatment stinks,and factories stink; but one smoker will get the pitchfork mob after them.
 
2014-02-03 06:15:38 AM

octopied: Not surprised.

I do caaregiving  and one of my ladies smokes. She doesn't do it when I am there, but I used to smell it on myself after I left.My throat would start to ache, and sometimes I got a headache. After awhile, my body adjusted some and it doesn't bother me so much now.When I wipe down surfaces,in her place it's not uncommon for the cloth to start getting sticky and off yellow.

I love how many people think smoke doesn't actually bother anyone and people just complain about it because they hate you. Uh yeah, smoke bothers sensitive people. In fact I am bothered by a lot of smells.I cn usually tolerate them for short durations though. I have to use Tide free because if I use regular on my laundry I  start coughing after a couple hours and will cough all night


i25.photobucket.com
 
2014-02-03 06:18:46 AM
Wish I could Edit my comment.  I understand that foods aren't "covered" in GMO's and hormones...   However, we're all eating them, without any studies of what the potential side-effects are from eating these kinds of food.
/not a tree-hugging hippie, but let's get logical people.
 
2014-02-03 06:18:52 AM
sure. in the same way that a gram of poison on the moon kills exactly like an ounce in your mouth
 
2014-02-03 06:20:44 AM

nipner: Hiro-ACiD: TwistedFark: True story: In my town, the air quality is really bad in the downtown area, so their solution: Not limit the thousands of busses and cars that go directly through the area daily, but to banish outdoor smoking in a 3 block strip down by the main mall.

Meanwhile....
[i.imgur.com image 640x368]

Exactly.  Everyone wants a scapegoat.  Smokers are an easy target as cancer causers, cause they're in the minority.  Heavily outnumbered by the people commuting alone in their personal vehicles, or the polluting corporations with millions to lobby.  The food you eat is covered in pesticides, GMO's, and hormones; the clothes you wear and mattress you sleep on are covered in flame-retardant chemicals; and the air you breathe is full of pollution.
I'm a former analog smoker, who's vaped for 2 years, constantly amazed by people who shove a chemical/hormone laden hamburger in their mouth (McDonalds); then tell me my habit is bad.
I agree that cigs stink and are offensive; but if people are outside.. stop b*tching unless you're willing to fix the other issues.  Vehicles stink, restaurants stink, sewage treatment stinks,and factories stink; but one smoker will get the pitchfork mob after them.


It's not practical to abolish transit or sewage treatment. Factories usually are very polluting but they produce products and jobs, so all you can really do is cut down on waste if possible. Smoking is absolutely unneccesary and does nothing but create a nuisance for otheres. Enjoy it in your own time and space, and thank the good lord that other smelly habits such as nail painting and pooping also have confined areas people do them in.
 
2014-02-03 06:27:22 AM
Next up: talking to or touching a smoker will cause AIDS, leprosy, malaria, and the dread heeby jeebies.
(PS, quitting after this pack. Did it last time for 11 years, and I'm just simply tired of being winded and nicking first thing in the morning)
 
2014-02-03 06:27:27 AM

octopied: Smoking is absolutely unneccesary and does nothing but create a nuisance for otheres. Enjoy it in your own time and space, and thank the good lord that other smelly habits such as nail painting and pooping also have confined areas people do them in.


So you have no pleasures or habits that offend or affect others?  You live in a bubble, with your kids never interacting with the public?  Also, you're just going off topic... the point of TFA is the effects of 3rd hand smoke on others...   Not if it gets your panties in a wad.   Read my comments again, about how these effects are no different from other pollutants in our environment.
/ use the spell check too in the future.
// I find it unnecessary with today's technology, and it's just a nuisance for those trying to read your comments.
 
2014-02-03 06:27:50 AM
jso2897:
There are plenty of good, logical arguments to counter the current hysteria regarding smoking. The above rant is not one of them.

1.  It's not a rant.
2,  The statement neither supported nor demonized smoking.  As a personal matter, I find smoking to be stupid and annoying.  That doesn't change the fact that
3.  Activists for any cause need to find a new cause after they've won.
 
2014-02-03 06:27:51 AM

doglover: octopied: Not surprised.

I do caaregiving  and one of my ladies smokes. She doesn't do it when I am there, but I used to smell it on myself after I left.My throat would start to ache, and sometimes I got a headache. After awhile, my body adjusted some and it doesn't bother me so much now.When I wipe down surfaces,in her place it's not uncommon for the cloth to start getting sticky and off yellow.

I love how many people think smoke doesn't actually bother anyone and people just complain about it because they hate you. Uh yeah, smoke bothers sensitive people. In fact I am bothered by a lot of smells.I cn usually tolerate them for short durations though. I have to use Tide free because if I use regular on my laundry I  start coughing after a couple hours and will cough all night

[i25.photobucket.com image 408x252]


Hang out with me next week.

I've decided to take up carrying raid and doing random pesticide spraying in public. If anyone else doesn't enjoy it or complains about it, they're the one being an intolerable wimp.
 
2014-02-03 06:30:55 AM
What does the research show if I post a photo of cigarette smoke?

www.coquitline.org

Have I just recklessly exposed everyone in this thread to the dangers of 2-dimensional smoke?
 
2014-02-03 06:33:22 AM
octopied:Hang out with me next week.

I've decided to take up carrying raid and doing random pesticide spraying in public. If anyone else doesn't enjoy it or complains about it, they're the one being an intolerable wimp.


So you work for Parks & Recreation, a Landscaper, Monsanto, Terminex, or the "perfume sample dude at the mall"...????  / Which one is it?
 
2014-02-03 06:34:51 AM
Obviously the answer is to burn anything that has had smoke on it.
 
2014-02-03 06:35:00 AM

nipner: octopied: Smoking is absolutely unneccesary and does nothing but create a nuisance for otheres. Enjoy it in your own time and space, and thank the good lord that other smelly habits such as nail painting and pooping also have confined areas people do them in.

So you have no pleasures or habits that offend or affect others?  You live in a bubble, with your kids never interacting with the public?  Also, you're just going off topic... the point of TFA is the effects of 3rd hand smoke on others...   Not if it gets your panties in a wad.   Read my comments again, about how these effects are no different from other pollutants in our environment.
/ use the spell check too in the future.
// I find it unnecessary with today's technology, and it's just a nuisance for those trying to read your comments.


Lets see...I have no kids and no vices. I walk or take the bus, not drive. I dont wear perfume and use very lightly scented anti perspirant sparingly. I brush my teeth and don't eat sloppily around others. Other than being occasionally clumsy and accidently stepping on someone's toes, I'm good.

As to third hand smoke of course it's poisonous if it settles on things, and so are mny cleaners we use. However, usually cleaners don't settle and sink into all surfaces before they are wiped off.
 
2014-02-03 06:35:28 AM

octopied: doglover: octopied: Not surprised.

I do caaregiving  and one of my ladies smokes. She doesn't do it when I am there, but I used to smell it on myself after I left.My throat would start to ache, and sometimes I got a headache. After awhile, my body adjusted some and it doesn't bother me so much now.When I wipe down surfaces,in her place it's not uncommon for the cloth to start getting sticky and off yellow.

I love how many people think smoke doesn't actually bother anyone and people just complain about it because they hate you. Uh yeah, smoke bothers sensitive people. In fact I am bothered by a lot of smells.I cn usually tolerate them for short durations though. I have to use Tide free because if I use regular on my laundry I  start coughing after a couple hours and will cough all night

[i25.photobucket.com image 408x252]

Hang out with me next week.

I've decided to take up carrying raid and doing random pesticide spraying in public. If anyone else doesn't enjoy it or complains about it, they're the one being an intolerable wimp.


Do the pesticides make you feel good? Are you trying to minimize their spraying on others? Do they taste good with whiskey?
 
2014-02-03 06:37:29 AM

octopied: Lets see...I have no kids and no vices. I walk or take the bus, not drive. I dont wear perfume and use very lightly scented anti perspirant sparingly. I brush my teeth and don't eat sloppily around others.


Why are you concerned with smoking, then? You're immortal.

www.quickmeme.com
 
2014-02-03 06:40:37 AM

jso2897: There are plenty of good, logical arguments to counter the current hysteria regarding smoking. The above rant is not one of them.


Well said, but this needs to be applied to the whole damn thread.  I hope no one needs surgery after all these knee-jerk reactions to a summary of a scientific paper from a reputable website.  Many of these same folks would ridicule creationists, anti vaxers, man made climate change deniers and similar ilk for rejecting a scientific paper out of hand yet here they stand...err...sit doing the same.

Adults should be able to drink, smoke, fark and get high, but they should also understand their actions affect others.  And they should probably save the self righteous indignation for the stupid regulations and laws, not scientific papers.

Hiro-ACiD: Meanwhile....


I agree, we do need stronger regulations on the burning of fossil fuels and a cap and trade system or a carbon tax.  What does that have to do with regulating smoking?

TwistedFark: Well, that's because obviously the vehicle emissions are substantially worse for you.

We just don't talk about it because there isn't a crazy anti-car lobby where the benefit you get from feeling righteous indignation about "not driving a car" outweighs to pain in the ass that is not having a car. Instead we put little sticks on poles inside parking garages (if you live in California you'll know what I'm talking about).


Car emissions are heavily regulated.  There are pushes toward extreme low emission vehicles, more mass transit and electric cars.  We should reduce the amount of pollutants we put in the air and strive for green(er) transportation.  What does that have to do with regulating smoking?

Slaxl: What is 3rd hand smoke? Their description sounds a lot like what I thought 2nd hand smoke is. 

Either you smoke and get first hand smoke, or you don't smoke but are affected by the smoke put out by smokers, which is 2nd hand smoke, so how can there be a 3rd hand smoke? You're still a non-smoker being affected by the smoke from smokers, which makes you a 2nd hand smoker, not 3rd.


It appears they're making a distinction between inhaling smoke from someone actively smoking and inhaling/absorbing residual smoke even when no one is currently smoking.
 
2014-02-03 06:40:53 AM
octopied:Lets see...I have no kids and no vices. I walk or take the bus, not drive. I dont wear perfume and use very lightly scented anti perspirant sparingly. I brush my teeth and don't eat sloppily around others. Other than being occasionally clumsy and accidently stepping on someone's toes, I'm good.

As to third hand smoke of course it's poisonous if it settles on things, and so are mny cleaners we use. However, usually cleaners don't settle and sink into all surfaces before they are wiped off.


Oh... so you're unemployed and live in your mother's basement.  Hoping some day to find a female potato like you to mate with.
/ Let me guess, you don't sh*t or fart either?
// Your spelling still needs work and is stinking up this thread.  Hint: It's called "spell check"
 
2014-02-03 06:45:07 AM
Baryogenesis:Adults should be able to drink, smoke, fark and get high, but they should also understand their actions affect others.  And they should probably save the self righteous indignation for the stupid regulations and laws, not scientific papers.

Exactly.  Thread done.
 
2014-02-03 06:45:24 AM

LonMead: What does the research show if I post a photo of cigarette smoke?

[www.coquitline.org image 300x219]

Have I just recklessly exposed everyone in this thread to the dangers of 2-dimensional smoke?


There's an e-cigarette joke in there somewhere, but I can't make it work.
 
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