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(The Atlantic)   Inmate's execution brings an alarming literalness to the phrase "jumping the gun"   (theatlantic.com) divider line 218
    More: Followup, Missouri, death penalty, federal courts, U.S. Supreme Court, Missouri Rules of Professional Conduct, habeas corpus, phrases, Missouri Department of Corrections  
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12076 clicks; posted to Main » on 02 Feb 2014 at 10:35 AM (28 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-02-02 05:04:39 AM
I'm in favor of the death penalty, so long as the fairness and professionalism of the police and the judicial system can be guaranteed, as well as a complete lack of prejudice towards both ethnicity and prior criminal conviction.
 
2014-02-02 06:47:23 AM
They murdered him. 4 minutes later and it would have been legal. But they didn't wait. It was murder.

But ITALY is the country with a corrupt court system.
 
2014-02-02 07:01:55 AM

doglover: They murdered him. 4 minutes later and it would have been legal. But they didn't wait. It was murder.

But ITALY is the country with a corrupt court system.


Aw, c'mon, it's both countries.
 
2014-02-02 07:15:23 AM
This is yet another reason why I'm against the death penalty...that and the 140+ death-row prisoners that have had their convictions overturned.

That isn't to say there aren't criminals that don't deserve the penalty, but the risk of putting to death 1 innocent person isn't worth the price as there's no making amends for putting an innocent person to death.
 
2014-02-02 08:15:38 AM

doglover: They murdered him. 4 minutes later and it would have been legal. But they didn't wait. It was murder.

But ITALY is the country with a corrupt court system.


As I recall, this isn't the first time it's happened in Missouri either.

And is enough to make me anti-death penalty.

And yes. Italy has a corrupt court system. Don't be that guy.
 
2014-02-02 08:46:48 AM
The death penalty is a tool and so isn't inherently right or wrong.  Much like a chainsaw or a 1 iron, if misused innocent people suffer irreparable harm.  So it should be used very carefully and only when really called for. Those guys who tied up, raped and set the family on fire in CT come to mind.

I'm just saying don't be mad at the death penalty for this.  Be mad at how it was used.
 
2014-02-02 09:15:35 AM

doglover: They murdered him. 4 minutes later and it would have been legal. But they didn't wait. It was murder.

But ITALY is the country with a corrupt court system.


There were no court orders holding the execution.
 
2014-02-02 09:31:25 AM

cman: There were no court orders holding the execution.


Actually, there was a judicial stay in effect when Missouri executed this person. The death warrant was invalid.

Everyone involved in this should be prosecuted for first degree murder by the feds.
 
2014-02-02 09:46:31 AM
see, THIS is why the death penalty is wrong. you cannot mete out an irreversible punishment. mistakes invariably get made. and once you're dead... you're dead.
 
2014-02-02 09:47:37 AM
and, yes, those who perpetrated this should be prosecuted for 1st degree murder.
 
2014-02-02 09:57:18 AM
America is quite a savage and barbaric place.
 
2014-02-02 09:58:11 AM

Baron Harkonnen: I'm in favor of the death penalty, so long as the fairness and professionalism of the police and the judicial system can be guaranteed, as well as a complete lack of prejudice towards both ethnicity and prior criminal conviction.


How about the number of lawyers the accused can afford?  Because if you can afford more than one, you're not going to suffer the death penalty.
 
2014-02-02 09:59:48 AM

TwoHead: The death penalty is a tool and so isn't inherently right or wrong


The same could be said of a thermonuclear weapon.
 
2014-02-02 10:27:58 AM

TwoHead: The death penalty is a tool and so isn't inherently right or wrong.


the "tool" is the injection. the death penalty is how it's applied, which is, depending on your stance, inherently right or wrong.
 
2014-02-02 10:40:18 AM

Baron Harkonnen: I'm in favor of the death penalty, so long as the fairness and professionalism of the police and the judicial system can be guaranteed, as well as a complete lack of prejudice towards both ethnicity and prior criminal conviction.


The problem is that this is far from reality.
 
2014-02-02 10:42:34 AM
You're killing me, Smulls.
 
2014-02-02 10:42:37 AM

Marcus Aurelius: TwoHead: The death penalty is a tool and so isn't inherently right or wrong

The same could be said of a thermonuclear weapon.


Or a crobar, ski mask & chloroform starter kit.
 
2014-02-02 10:42:50 AM
Except for the fact that earlier that day SCOTUS had denied cert on one of his appeals. This was the usual last minute Hail Mary.

As a lawyer myself I hate this last minute crap. If you had a good argument as to your client's rights why didn't you make them months ago? It is not like we have the trial and sentencing today and the execution tomorrow. There are DECADES between.

On the otherhand all this fighting by prosecutors not to retest evidence now that we have better technology is bull shiat. Let's find out if we have an innocent man on death row.
 
2014-02-02 10:44:16 AM
well, you can't hold up commerce.
 
2014-02-02 10:47:36 AM

FlashHarry: and, yes, those who perpetrated this should be prosecuted for 1st degree murder.


In a sane country. If only we had one.
 
2014-02-02 10:49:27 AM
He "was pronounced dead four minutes  before the Supreme Court denied his final stay request. "

So they jumped the gun by four minutes?
 
2014-02-02 10:50:19 AM

Baron Harkonnen: I'm in favor of the death penalty, so long as the fairness and professionalism of the police and the judicial system can be guaranteed, as well as a complete lack of prejudice towards both ethnicity and prior criminal conviction.


So your against the death penalty then. Why don't you just say that? You are against the death penalty because fairness and professionalism is pretty much a joke in our justice system. Race and money are the biggest factors in determining what happens to defendants. Law enforcement officers are trained to lie to the courts and judges believe them, even thought they know this because it is easier than trying to actually uncover the truth. This was a lynching, pure and simple. I don't care what this man may or may not have done. He was murdered by the state without due process of law and most people will not care because of his race.
 
2014-02-02 10:50:42 AM

Marcus Aurelius: America is quite a savage and barbaric place.


whatistheexcel.com

/Cause we are the only place in the world with the death penalty
 
2014-02-02 10:51:01 AM

hardinparamedic: cman: There were no court orders holding the execution.

Actually, there was a judicial stay in effect when Missouri executed this person. The death warrant was invalid.

Everyone involved in this should be prosecuted for first degree murder by the feds.


Wrong

Rtfa, particularly the only bolded sentence
 
2014-02-02 10:52:17 AM

FlashHarry: see, THIS is why the death penalty is wrong. you cannot mete out an irreversible punishment. mistakes invariably get made. and once you're dead... you're dead.


I agree that the death penalty shouldn't be in use because of how many mistakes they're making, but isn't any punishment irreversible? If you're wrongly put away for 30 years, you can't get that time back, even if they decide to compensate you because they realized their mistake. I think there are far more innocent people whose lives are rotting away in prison than are being wrongly executed. I think the problem is more fundamental.
 
2014-02-02 10:52:27 AM
Damn, I wouldn't want to be that warden if the court had granted a stay 2 minutes after they started.
 
2014-02-02 10:52:53 AM
It is 2014, not 1964 or 1914, and yet on Wednesday night a black man in Missouri, a black man convicted by an all-white jury, ...

...and I stopped reading there. Race card pulled in the first paragraph. Look, either we're all a bunch of racist assholes or we aren't. I'm getting quite tired of hearing "only white people can be racist."
 
2014-02-02 10:54:34 AM

ajgeek: It is 2014, not 1964 or 1914, and yet on Wednesday night a black man in Missouri, a black man convicted by an all-white jury, ...

...and I stopped reading there. Race card pulled in the first paragraph. Look, either we're all a bunch of racist assholes or we aren't. I'm getting quite tired of hearing "only white people can be racist."


And here is a prime example of my point.
 
2014-02-02 10:55:04 AM

eas81: Marcus Aurelius: America is quite a savage and barbaric place.



/Cause we are the only place in the world with the death penalty


Not true. China, Iran, North Korea etc. All the civilized places have it.
 
2014-02-02 10:55:40 AM

ajgeek: It is 2014, not 1964 or 1914, and yet on Wednesday night a black man in Missouri, a black man convicted by an all-white jury, ...

...and I stopped reading there. Race card pulled in the first paragraph. Look, either we're all a bunch of racist assholes or we aren't. I'm getting quite tired of hearing "only white people can be racist."


Yeah, I completely stopped taking the article seriously after reading this.
 
2014-02-02 10:55:41 AM

Bob The Nob: You're killing me, Smulls.


Ha!!
 
2014-02-02 10:56:19 AM

LandOfChocolate: Wrong

Rtfa, particularly the only bolded sentence


You might want to read the actual legal documents released to the media in TFA by the defense attorney.
 
2014-02-02 10:56:50 AM

eas81: Marcus Aurelius: America is quite a savage and barbaric place.

[whatistheexcel.com image 475x401]

/Cause we are the only place in the world with the death penalty


the fact that your little image is misspelled makes it even more derptacular.
 
2014-02-02 10:57:51 AM

hardinparamedic: cman: There were no court orders holding the execution.

Actually, there was a judicial stay in effect when Missouri executed this person. The death warrant was invalid.

Everyone involved in this should be prosecuted for first degree murder by the feds.


If I'm reading the article correctly there was no stay of execution. In fact it appears the prison system people checked three times with the courts before commencing with the execution to make sure of it. Appealing an execution does not automatically grant a stay of execution and the courts hadn't put on in place either.
 
2014-02-02 10:58:26 AM

pyrotek85: I agree that the death penalty shouldn't be in use because of how many mistakes they're making, but isn't any punishment irreversible? If you're wrongly put away for 30 years, you can't get that time back, even if they decide to compensate you because they realized their mistake. I think there are far more innocent people whose lives are rotting away in prison than are being wrongly executed. I think the problem is more fundamental.


true - and i've heard this argument before. but things like death and castration are literally irreversible. at least if you're wrongfully incarcerated you might be given some money in compensation, and you might at least be able to lead some semblance of a life.
 
2014-02-02 10:58:41 AM
Baron Harkonnen:

I'm in favor of the death penalty, so long as the fairness and professionalism of the police and the judicial system can be guaranteed, as well as a complete lack of prejudice towards both ethnicity and prior criminal conviction.

On the other hand, he was convicted in 1993 of a 1991 robbery & murder, and in all the years since his guilt was not disproven. By all rights he should have been escorted to the gurney within a month of losing his only appeal.

There are too many useless & worthless people in the world for me to boohoo over a technicality like this.

All this guy had to do in the first place was not walk into a jewelry store with a 15 year old accomplice to kill one person, seriously wound another and rob the joint. If I can not do it anybody can.

And if more violently felonious "non-whites" are executed the obvious solution is to execute more white ones. A murderer's skin color should not exempt him from purgation, either.

We need more executions, and they should be sooner.
 
2014-02-02 11:00:27 AM

eas81: /Cause we are the only place in the world with the death penalty


yes, it's great to be a member of the death-penalty club and join in the company of other top-tier nations such as china, iran, saudi arabia, botswana, libya, and north korea.
 
2014-02-02 11:00:41 AM
encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com
 
2014-02-02 11:02:01 AM

slayer199: This is yet another reason why I'm against the death penalty...that and the 140+ death-row prisoners that have had their convictions overturned.

That isn't to say there aren't criminals that don't deserve the penalty, but the risk of putting to death 1 innocent person isn't worth the price as there's no making amends for putting an innocent person to death.


This is my thinking exactly.  If we have the death penalty, it is guaranteed that innocent people will be put to death occasionally.  That's unacceptable to me.  You can't just say "Oh, but what about this monster who's clearly guilty, can't we at least execute him?"  As soon as you execute anyone, you are paving the way to executing people who are innocent.
 
2014-02-02 11:02:47 AM

eas81: Marcus Aurelius: America is quite a savage and barbaric place.

[whatistheexcel.com image 475x401]

/Cause we are the only place in the world with the death penalty


img.fark.net
 
2014-02-02 11:02:58 AM

doglover: They murdered him. 4 minutes later and it would have been legal. But they didn't wait. It was murder.

But ITALY is the country with a corrupt court system.


FTFA, "The law is clear: the pendency of litigation is insufficient to stop an execution. Barefoot v. Estelle, 463 U.S. 880, 895-96 (1983). The legal mechanism for a federal court to stop an execution is a court-ordered stay. "
 
2014-02-02 11:03:37 AM

FlashHarry: pyrotek85: I agree that the death penalty shouldn't be in use because of how many mistakes they're making, but isn't any punishment irreversible? If you're wrongly put away for 30 years, you can't get that time back, even if they decide to compensate you because they realized their mistake. I think there are far more innocent people whose lives are rotting away in prison than are being wrongly executed. I think the problem is more fundamental.

true - and i've heard this argument before. but things like death and castration are literally irreversible. at least if you're wrongfully incarcerated you might be given some money in compensation, and you might at least be able to lead some semblance of a life.


Yeah I'm just saying that being locked away, or even an attempted railroading by overzealous cops and prosecutors, is just as irreversible. You can't get time back ever, and even being accused of certain crimes ruins you forever. I know that those things are less tangible than death or castration, but they're just as important IMO.
 
GCD
2014-02-02 11:03:44 AM

FlashHarry: see, THIS is why the death penalty is wrong. you cannot mete out an irreversible punishment. mistakes invariably get made. and once you're dead... you're dead.


The death penalty is not wrong - provided that you can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the bastard about to be executed committed the crime(s).

Taxpayers should be enraged their tax dollars are being spent housing these people, giving them 3 meals a day along with access to various amenities (medical, schooling, TV, cable, video game consoles, etc., etc., etc.) that people who aren't housed in a 8x8 cell can't afford.

And enough with the "humane" executions - bring back the firing squads and the gallows. Maybe it will serve as a deterrence to the wannabe criminals out there.

Hell, for $29.99, I can buy a box of 375 rounds of .22 long, copper hollow point, 36 grain shells. That's a whole lot cheaper than the lethal injection bullshiat.
 
2014-02-02 11:04:10 AM

FlashHarry: eas81: /Cause we are the only place in the world with the death penalty

yes, it's great to be a member of the death-penalty club and join in the company of other top-tier nations such as china, iran, saudi arabia, botswana, libya, and north korea.


And Japan. Amazing how many people leave that one out.
 
2014-02-02 11:05:01 AM

FlashHarry: see, THIS is why the death penalty is wrong. you cannot mete out an irreversible punishment. mistakes invariably get made. and once you're dead... you're dead.


I'm against the death penalty, but as an innocent man in America in some ways you are better off with a death sentence as opposed to a sentence of 30 years because you are far more likely to get the attention of programs like the innocence project that will help you prove your innocence. I think there are far more innocent people rotting in US prisons than being executed.

 doglover: They murdered him. 4 minutes later and it would have been legal. But they didn't wait. It was murder.

But ITALY is the country with a corrupt court system.


/US prosecutors are terribly corrupt
// that doesn't let the corrupt prosecutors in Italy off the hook

I for one am thankful for all the news coverage a certain young woman has gotten because it brings attention to how easily an obviously innocent person can be convicted. I wish she would use her fame to help out other wrongfully convicted people
 
2014-02-02 11:05:59 AM

pyrotek85: Yeah I'm just saying that being locked away, or even an attempted railroading by overzealous cops and prosecutors, is just as irreversible.


this is where we disagree. execution is final. incarceration, however awful, is not.
 
2014-02-02 11:09:08 AM
In 1991, Herbert Smulls called jeweler Stephen Honickman and set up an appointment to meet at his store in Chesterfield. He said he wanted to buy a diamond for his fiancee.
It was a set up. Smulls wanted to rob the store and took along a 15-year-old friend to help commit what became a far worse crime: Honickman was shot to death. Honickman's wife, Florence, was also shot, but survived by faking death in a pool of her own blood until the assailants left.
The encounter quickly turned violent. Honickman, shot and dying on the floor, pleaded with Smulls to stop.
"Enough already, take what you want," Honickman said according to his wife's testimony. The robbers took rings and watches, including the ones Florence Honickman was wearing. They apparently thought she was dead, as she'd been shot in the side and the arm, lying motionless in her own blood.
"I felt pain and terror while I lay on the floor playing dead while the murderers ransacked our office," Florence Honickman said Wednesday night.
When police stopped Smulls 15 minutes later, they found stolen jewelry and weapons in his car, St. Louis County prosecutor Bob McCulloch said. Florence Honickman identified the assailants."It was a horrific crime," McCulloch said. "With all the other arguments that the opponents of the death penalty are making, it's simply to try to divert the attention from what this guy did, and why he deserves to be executed."  img.fark.net
 
2014-02-02 11:09:36 AM

Korzine: FlashHarry: eas81: /Cause we are the only place in the world with the death penalty

yes, it's great to be a member of the death-penalty club and join in the company of other top-tier nations such as china, iran, saudi arabia, botswana, libya, and north korea.

And Japan. Amazing how many people leave that one out.


so...

Afghanistan
Bahrain
Bangladesh
Belarus
Botswana
Chad
China (People's Republic)
Congo (Democratic Republic)
Cuba
Dominica
Egypt
Equatorial Guinea
Ethiopia
Guatemala
Guinea
Guyana
India
Iran
Iraq
Jordan
Kuwait
Lesotho
Libya
Malaysia
Mongolia
Nigeria
North Korea
Oman
Pakistan
Qatar
Saudi Arabia
Somalia
South Sudan
Sudan
Syria
Thailand
Uganda
United Arab Emirates
Vietnam
Yemen
Zimbabwe


and JAPAN!

that's quite a club!
 
2014-02-02 11:11:58 AM
his appeal was based on an assumption that the drugs that were going to be used hadnt been proven to not be cruel and inhumane.
 
m00
2014-02-02 11:14:21 AM
Wow, a lot of people on this thread love murderers.
 
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